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So Barb, an overdue congratulations are in order.
Oh my God. What did I do now, Elvis?
Didn't you all recently announce the Simply Arch studio?
Yes, we did.
That's awesome. You know that's right up my alley there.
Of course I do, yeah.
And just for anyone who hasn't seen the announcement, what is this Simply Arch thing?
All right, so Simply Arch is our dedicated full arch lab. So it's high quality. Full arch cases are a big part of what we do. And we wanted a team and a dedicated workflow and a production environment built specifically around them.
So basically just no distractions.
Exactly. Just a bunch of full arch nerds doing full arch things.
Oh God, a bunch of nerds sounds terrifying.
It's never terrifying of us.
And does a new studio also mean new toys?
Yes. And of course, we recently brought in Dara Mill as part of the project.
Hell yeah, nice.
Yeah, and then of course came the cam decision.
Here we go, the old cam decision.
You know, Elvis, we tested a couple options and of course we landed on Hyperdent.
Like Hyperdent, just as easy as that, As easy as that, pretty much.
The quality off the machine was excellent. So that means also no hand finishing And the milling times were excellent also.
You're right. That does make the decision quite easy.
But honestly, what really stood out to us was the testing and implementation process.
How so?
You could immediately tell these guys live in a world of high, complex milling challenges.
That's got to build a lot of confidence.
You know what? It really did, and it really does. They weren't just showing us how the software works. They were advising us on the best way to build an entire workflow for our lab. You could tell they've done it 100 times, guys.
That's a whole new different level of expertise. Well, congratulations on the new studio, Barb.
Thank you. Hats off to my dad for the studio. So it means a lot to me. Aw.
Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info at voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 439 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
And my name's Barbara.
Barb, welcome back from vacation. How are you? Thank you.
I'm pretty good. I went out to Oregon and Mount Hood and just beautiful God's country, and I am a happy girl. Whole week.
You spent some time reconnecting with nature, getting out of the lab a little bit.
Yes, I did. And you know, you would have been proud of me. I ran every day.
Did you really?
The way that my family eats. I had to run just to keep up with the food.
That is the reason I run.
I think it's safe to say my *** is fasting for a week. So yeah. But it was great, great, great. How are you?
I love it. I'm doing really well. I'm just excited to get rolling into the fall.
Fantastic. Well, let's do this.
Well, I will say this though.
Uh-oh.
I'm really disappointed in this industry, Barb.
Why?
Well, last week I announced that I have signed up for the Race for the Future. I saw that. And I was gonna hit everyone up on social media to raise money for the Foundation for Dental Laboratory Technology. Well, here we are about a week later, and there's only been one donation. It's my mom. My mom! My mother, who has to, I think by law, support me, but she has absolutely nothing to do in this industry. And she's the only one that's donated.
I'll donate.
Come on, people. But seriously, yeah, I mean, come on. We give you free episodes every week. You can throw us 5 bucks. 10 bucks, 20 bucks. Good. Let's raise some money for the Foundation for Dental Laboratory Technology. So look for my post on social media, mostly Facebook, I think, because it's easier. Or head over to dental labfoundation.org. Hit that donate now button and put in my name or Barb's. She's running the virtual race. Yeah. Or just put in voices from the bench and they'll split it between us. It all goes to the same great cause.
Let's do it, guys. Please support.
Do more than my mom. So from working from hearing aids in Scotland to becoming the first female dental technician in the UK, Caroline Kirkpatrick has taken a pretty incredible path through dental technology what started as a walk past a dental lab and a broken denture sign turned into more than 30 years of learning teaching and running her own laboratory eventually treating patients and constantly looking for better ways to do things nice Caroline joins us to talk about her journey from the bench to the clinic becoming an early pioneer in clinical dental technology raising next generation of technicians, and her passion for making digital dentures practical and accessible for everyday laboratories. So join us as we chat with Caroline Kirkpatrick. Voices from the bench. The Interview. Barb and I were in Insights. Was that this year or last year? I don't even know anymore. But the last insights, a name popped up as a speaker. And I remember saying to Barb, Barb, we need to have this lady on.
Yes.
And of course, insights being insights and being busy. I don't even remember seeing you, but I'm happy to connect after Caroline Kirkpatrick. How are you?
I am excellent. It does feel like a million miles away insights. But that was a fantastic experience for me. It was fantastic. Yeah, I did get to, I saw you guys, but I never got a chance. It was busy.
Dang it.
Lots and lots.
Well, you were speaking, so yeah, so you were busy, Yeah.
First day, the presentation was over, so at least I got the rest of the time to enjoy. A little bit.
I'm sure that's a little stressful.
Yeah, look at what was going on. All good.
Well, Caroline, you don't sound like you're in America, and you definitely don't sound like you're in Spain. So where do you come from?
I am from Bonnie, Scotland.
Oh, that's awesome.
In the capital cities where I live in Scotland, and I was born in Glasgow, family from the West.
Yeah.
But yeah.
I've been to Glasgow and I loved it. Like one of my favourite places.
It's a lovely place, but it's far away from America.
Yeah. Unbelievable though, sincerely.
So we always like to hear how people get into this industry. I'd love to hear the Scotland's version. How did you find out about dental?
So it was purely by chance. I left school early. I left school as soon as I could at 16. So it was quite difficult to try and get into a profession, just some sort of education route after school. And a family friend had given me an opportunity to work in a business that he had just recently taken over. And it made the little earpieces for hearing aids.
Oh.
No, this is really cool. So it made the earpieces and it also supplied equipment and materials to dental laboratories. And at the time, 16. All I'd done was I went in and they actually used vacuum machines to blow down a blank over all of the impressions of the inner ear and then pour acrylic inside. And these were shipped off, well they were trimmed and polished, but these were shipped off to the hospitals to fit them to the hearing aids. But we made-up lots of orders for dental labs and all the equipment fascinated me, the materials we used to mix up monomer and polymers and put them into the containers and post them out. So sitting all day on a polishing lathe, polishing these ear pieces, my hands were shot. But on the way home to the bus stop, even then I walked past the dental lab and it had the broken denture repair sign outside. So from the equipment and the materials and knowing that what I was doing, you know, was a tiny little bit of, you know, what a dental lab did, I was just intrigued and fascinated by how can these, how do these materials and this equipment, enable you to make somebody's teeth? So yeah.
I have got to tell you, we've done how many podcasts? So normally it's a family member or somebody that knows somebody, but we have never heard a story such as this. So you actually connected what you did through the ear pieces to dental, walked past a dental laboratory and said, hey, I want to do that. So what'd you do? On the door and say, what's up.
I'd like to move 4 inches to the middle of the mouth, please.
I want to make dentures. That was in my head. I was like, I want to make dentures. But I just started to phone around labs, local labs in the area. And you know, I was looking at the way the education path and at the time it was apprenticeships and the apprenticeships that were available, they were looking for qualifications, which I didn't have. But when I called the local college to see, is there any way that you can help me try and find how I can get into this job? There was a government scheme, and it was to try and encourage people like myself that's left school with employers to match them up. So they subsidised employers to take on. So they paid the they paid the government paid the salary for the first two years or part of it. And that allowed you to get to college, so you didn't need to bypass the qualification route. So, I was really lucky, but actually it was a Crown Bridge Lab that I started, and I that was the beginning of my career working in Crown and Bridge.
So wait, so you called them and they placed you in a lab?
Yeah, it was the local college who they contacted a couple of the labs that they knew and then they matched me up. I went for an interview. So it worked well for the lab because it was a one-man lab. he needed a wee bit help, but couldn't afford to take anyone on. So it worked really well together. And I was there for five years. I worked with him, we done, I done my advanced training.
So what was that like? Talk to me about your first day, your first week. Like what was it like?
It was just nerve wracking. I was, you know, I was very, very shy. I was very quiet. I was getting embarrassed when my face would go red when I spoke to people.
You were in.
I was very introverted, I wasn't very outgoing, but I think it was age and then the guy that I worked with, his name was Eugene, he was just amazing because he was really young and I think that made me feel slightly, I don't want to say intimidating, but just, it felt I expected to go and see this old man, Eugene, that I was doing a dental lab, but what was that? He was quite young. So yeah, he was absolutely great in the way that he nurtured me and encouraged me and taught me to be confident, basically, as well as deliver, you know, making crimes. And I made lots of mistakes, but he was so patient and yeah.
It was absolutely when you went from ear to mouth.
Was it?
Was it? Did you have to like start prioritizing aesthetics? Because I imagine with hearing aids, it's not as big of a deal. It's more of just like, yeah, completely.
It was, I mean, it was like a factory when you worked in the hearing aid, you know, place because I was only doing one part of making that product, the process, and it was, I was only polishing the acrylic ear pieces all day, every day. So going to then work within a lab that made, it was mostly metal ceramic crown, so we were making the models and then we were waxing things up and we were investing in casting. polishing, preparing the metal and then building up ceramic and things. So there was a huge amount of learning and a huge amount of different aspects of the job that just totally engaged me because there was so much to learn. And I think moving on and over 30 years on, I'll almost say how many years, but it's still the thing. There's still so many different things to learn. Yeah, you've got a huge amount of knowledge over that time, like you see, aesthetics, you know, different tooth form. It's just a massive broad spectrum of things to learn.
But you said he was crown and bridge. So he brought you in. He's a one-person lab. So I'm assuming you learned model work, waxing, casting, and ceramics.
I thought you said you wanted to learn dentures?
I know.
That's coming.
It's coming. He rented a space and we had another guy, Jim, and he done dentures, but I didn't get through there. I just used to get to see him standing. with this big pile of wax on the bench. But to be honest, I was so happy doing what was doing because it was so sort of intricate and clean in comparison to what I could see was going on in gyms while making ventures. Yeah. And then it was probably when I brought in to do implant work that started to be interested in the prosthesis side. So the removable prosthesis, I didn't want to just learn fixed implant work. I wanted to learn about both.
Oh, there you go.
And to be honest, even in the beginning of the career, I went on to work in a dental hospital and we had different departments. So we had the crown of bridge, the ortho, the cross. And I wanted to be involved in knowing what was going on everywhere, but it was pretty much closed. And I couldn't quite understand that.
When you say closed, like they wouldn't let you learn different areas.
Yeah, they just done their own thing. And for me, I was working, working on a case for a gold shell crown and they were asking for guidance planes for a class for a crew. I'm not making the chrome, so I want to make sure whoever's making the chrome, I'm doing, you know, I'm doing it correctly to the way they want it. And I always remember their faces looking at me when I'm down, go down to the prosthetic lab and say, I'm making this gold crown and it's asked for a guide plane, so, you know, can you guide me to how you guys like it? And we're looking at me like, what? Because back then, to be honest, Crown and Bridge was the be-all and end-all, and everyone wanted to be in the Crown and Bridge lab. Whereas I wanted to learn everything. I didn't want to just be stuck doing the one thing. So yeah, I didn't last too long in the hospital. I moved on and I ended up But all.
Right, so you went to the one man lab and then how did you make it to the hospital? Like what happened? What transition transpired that got you there?
So I went from the one man lab and he couldn't keep me on. And I ended up working in, so we'll jump an orthodontic practice who has a dental lab. So I worked. So I worked in orthodontics for another five years after that. And that's.
So you were ortho too?
Yeah.
So you guys forgive us because Ellis and I have talked a lot and normally you need a degree.
I went back to the college because at the time it was we done our qualification for dental technology was in all areas. And then you went on to do the advanced qualification for the specifics. So I went on to do the advanced and both ortho, crown and bridge. Never done. Yeah. So I went on and done both.
Fantastic.
But so orthodontic practice, we worked in the lab making all the functional appliances, removable appliances and retainers and things. And then I found the job in the hospital where it was back to Crown and Bridge. Because it was a teaching hospital, I thought this will be great. And it was Glasgow, so I was going back to Glasgow. But I just travelled there every day. Three years I worked in the dental hospital. Three years. Three years.
And what did you do? Did you, was it like production work or?
Yeah, well, we used to do all the work for the student dentists who were going through their training and then all the postgraduate courses that were being run. So we were just doing, we were doing all of that work for them.
So what was it like? I got a question. What's it like working for students? Do you get to tell them, hey, your prep doesn't look so good? You can't take an impression like back then. Were you?
Yeah, because... The great thing is that they're there to learn. So they want to learn and they will, you know, any feedback and any information that you can get. they were more most appreciative of things like that. Yeah, for sure. And it was good at the time because it was quite unusual that we could go into the clinic and see what was going on at their side so that you understood. How hard it is. I just needed to see the full picture to understand the whole processes of, you know, how things are done. I needed to know the whole thing so that You make sure that you're doing it the best that you can, I suppose.
Yeah, because I know I do a lot of work with the school here, but they won't let me go in.
Why not? You have to ask.
I don't know. I ask many times because we get bad impressions or bad margins. And I'm like, let me come in and help. And they're like, no, that's the faculty's job. Thank you for your help. And I'm like, all right.
I think that's the way we all progress. we come together and share that information. Yeah. You're wasted if they're not allowing you in there.
Agree. Totally agree. Especially Elvis.
So what'd you do after the hospital? You said something about teaching.
So after the hospital, I came back and set up a lab in Edinburgh and started things with just ortho because it was the easiest site of dental technology to buy equipment.
And less equipment. Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, so.
Yeah, wire, right.
Yeah, wire, but acrylic. I had actually had a wallpaper pasting table. That was where I used to cast my model. So I really did start from basics and got the premises and started to build it up and things. And then at that point I had probably 6, seven months and then the head of the college had contacted me and asked if I'd be interested in taking on some teaching. So I ended up, I needed to do teacher training at the same time and I was teaching Crown and Bridge Advanced in the college, so to part-time students. So it was day release students, there was full-time students and then block release students. So yeah, we had lots of different groups coming in as well as international students. We used to do a lot of, we had a sister college in India, so we had lots of Indian students who'd come over to do the second part of the dental technology course.
Do you think teaching just called you or do you think you called teaching? Because it sounds like they must have known you were going to be a good teacher.
I think, yeah. I mean, I think he knew because I went back to do the advanced courses and I combined those courses and the one So we had two years to do the advanced course and I decided to do both of them at the same time because.
The dental- Oh God, you're an overachiever.
No, I'm just, just because the dental hospital wouldn't allow me to do both.
Yeah.
So I had to work out a way how can I, so yeah, I just combined both of them. And in the hospital, I felt that we'd done very little work because I was used to working in a commercial environment where we had lots of work, we were very busy, it was really slow pace in the teaching hospital. So I had plenty of time too.
Plenty of time to do other stuff. Elvis and I know we're in production labs, so you really actually have no time to do anything in a production lab.
I know that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we had the library for the students. Everything was there. You know, it was like a match made in heaven. I could use the facilities at the university as well as, you know, work, earn my money, and do the course at college as well.
So when you were teaching, you were running your ortho lab at the same time?
Yes. So teaching part time and we had the lab. And the great thing about the teaching and the lab and all coming together was the fact that we had lots of students that needed placements. So I had lots of students come into the lab to do placements and learn more about on the job. And then I got to hand pick some. So you were able?
To work with them in your lab at the same time teaching them.
Yes, so teaching them at college to do the work. But when they were on work placement, they were getting, they were being taught on the job.
That is beautiful.
On what we're doing in the commercial environment. So yeah, that was.
How big did your lab get?
It got to the big or so nine staff was the largest.
Yeah.
It got to and I just I think at that point I had signed up to the clinical dental technology course. So that was the first in the UK course that I had applied for to do clinical dental technology which would allow me to treat patients direct.
So this is when you said to yourself, I can do better than what I've been doing.
I think because of the implant, what I spoke about earlier, the implant prosthesis, and then I started to do some prosthetic implant work. Yeah. And I spent lots of time going to the clinics and, what I felt like doing part of the dentist, the clinician's job, And I found that quite easy because I'd look at the patient, I could see exactly what I thought was required. But this way, to be honest, I thought, well, if the patient comes directly to me, then I'm going to get paid directly.
That is so genius. I was just going to say.
Money in the bank straight away rather than invoice and waiting a month.
Right. So how did that happen? Let me just preface it. So you thought about it and then you made it happen, but how did you make it happen?
So there was just the application process of applying for the course. So there was actually the criteria to get on to the course, a minimum of I think five years working as a dental technician. There were certain criteria and I think there was 60 applicants that were eligible for the criteria.
That's A lot.
Then there was 15 who got interviews for the position because this was a this was a pilot course because they never in the UK had the, that had the delivered this course to technicians, to dental technicians. So there was 15 interviewed and then there was only four of us that actually worked.
I was going to say and then there was you.
So, and it was one, I was one of four, but to be honest, the first few weeks I just thought, have I just talked my way into something that's way out of my league? Because I had only ever really been used to college education and not university-based education. there was a, it was a, it was a big eye-opener. And, the first day we were given lots of these papers to critique. And I had no idea what that was. I was like, what do you mean? But luckily I had three other guys that were on the course that were amazing and we just all stuck together and worked together to do it.
Yeah. So out of all the clinical dental technicians in the UK, you were in the first group ever?
Yeah.
That's pretty amazing.
The first female to qualify in the UK. The first female in Scotland. Yeah, I can take all those titles.
Nice. Because we've talked to a few. I didn't realize that. I guess I just didn't realize there was a first year.
So can I ask what year was that?
Was 2010.
Wow. That's fantastic.
America still doesn't have one.
I love that. I think that's fantastic. Do you say that like I was the first?
Yeah.
Do you have a T-shirt?
I used to put advertising in the beginning. I think you should.
You should be proud of that.
That's amazing. because it was something new. It was, no one had done it before. Although we had people that, or technicians that went to Canada and they'd been trained in Canada and come over. But the first time it was the dental council that was deciding what the criteria should be for us to be allowed to treat patients and to be responsible for their oral health, basically. So it's a big change from technically working at the bench to then being responsible for someone's oral health care.
But it sounds like in your brain, you knew that you wanted to do it. It's like you put two and two together and said, you know what, I can do this on my own.
Yeah, I mean, and the job satisfaction from what you can give to that individual and your knowledge and your understanding of, the prosthesis and being able to look in the patient's mouth, be able to get information from that patient and then understand what their issues and the problem is and to be able to resolve that. it's exhausting to be honest, working, I think, working with patients along. But it's so rewarding and I only work half a session, half a day a week in clinic seeing patients and the rest of the time I work at the bench. And to be honest, that's more than enough for me because I love dental technology. But equally, I wouldn't want to give that up because the rewards that I get from that and when I see those patients at the end and that they've got something that's as close as it can be to nature, then it's really makes me feel really proud of what I was and where I am. But still learning, still doing lots with digital workflow.
How long was that school for clinical? Is it a two year program?
This one was a year. So, you know, it was a year full time and it was so intense.
I bet.
My daughter was just. four at the time. And I had the business with 8 staff. And honestly, I look back and I think, how did you manage? going from the university, running to the nursery to pick it up, to go. I ended up, I actually got my mum to move in with me because I just couldn't manage it with a business. And the university was saying to me, the head that was running the course, you need to give up. You need to give up for the business. You need to just concentrate on this. And I'm like, no, the business. I was fine. I was in there first thing and then back to take my daughter to nursery. And then, yeah, you just, you just do it, don't you? If you want to do it, you just make it happen.
Absolutely.
But it's great. It's crazy to me that you went through all that and you only use it, what'd you say, half a day a week?
Yes.
That's insane.
I know. But I had my own practice in Edinburgh and clinic with a lab. And it was something that I'd worked towards for a long time because I worked within practices and various practices, but I always wanted the patients to be able to just pop in if they needed me. So you provide a treatment and the appointments are on a Monday. but I can't see you again till the following Monday. I wanted to do any minor adjustments and to be able to beat my bench and for them to call and I'll say, yeah, just pop in this afternoon and to be able to do that. And I loved that. So I worked hard to achieve that. COVID set me back quite a bit with the clinic. And I lost the staff, the technicians that I had.
Well, can you take us back a minute? So when did you actually open your clinic? So you had the two of them, but you obviously grew because you said you grabbed some of the students, you saw who was good and who was not. So how did that transition happen? You just kept growing. And what was that like?
Yeah, so the lab business, I just decided to move my business premises. to have my own clinic because prior my laboratory was on the top, I used to rent the top floor of a dental practice, an orthodontic practice and I had use of their disabled clinic downstairs where I used to treat my dental patients. So it was great. And they, I just rented the room. I had my own nurse, so that was fine. But I always just wanted, you always want more, you want your own place. So yeah, I'd bought a premises, a business premises in town in Edinburgh and converted that to the lab and the clinic. But that was a wee bit of a shock because of all the legislation that the The practice used to obviously deal with all of that. But then when I took the clinic on, it was a bit of a.
You said, holy **** what did I do?
Oh, absolutely. And then, it just got to the point it was too much. It was just way too much to try and maintain all the regulations because we were classed as an independent private health care provider and the regulations in Scotland were so, regular. I mean, and I do get it, absolutely get it. But when you are just a small, independent denture maker, seeing patients, then I employed someone and they had to fill out, they had to just do all of the legality with the paperwork and things. And I just thought it's too much. It's just too much to. So yeah, now I'm working back within a local practice. and it's a big referral practice, implant, teaching school. So yeah, and I'm happy there. It's a great wee place to work. And I've downsized the lab and it's just a family run lab. I've got my sister who's a dental technician. She's been with me from the beginning. I forced her to go to college. Oh, that's great. Yeah, she has. She's more focused on the business side of it, but she does do lots of orthodontics, retainers and aligners and different things. And she deals with all the work coming in and navigates everything and does all of the invoices, finance. So it's great. And then recently my daughter, she is, she's now at Cardiff Uni and she's doing her degree. So she is trainee dental technician as well.
So was she did that, was she in the lab a lot when she was young and just knew that she loved it? You got to give me up.
Well, what would you know, to be honest, she used to say to me, she used to talk about what she wanted to do when she left school and she said, mum, the worst case scenario, I said, okay, what I want, I can just become a dental technician. I actually said it at insights, you know, I brought up her photograph and said, I'm very proud to have a trainee dental technician, especially in this, I'm the mum to this wonderful trainee dental technician. But when she said that to me, when she came out with that when she was young, you know, now, like the realization that that's not the easy option, that's by far not the easy option, you know, it's quite a massive.
That's because you made it look so easy, so she thought it was. this is cake. No problem.
Yeah, I know. You see, she saw me using the skills to make her displays for school. You know, you make a rocket ship made of plaster and acrylic and, you know, her pumpkins had carved teeth, you know, just you can imagine all dental technicians, I'm sure.
So you inspired her. So she's in uni now and going to school.
Yeah, so Basically, the uni is the Cardiff, so she goes to Cardiff, but it's a work-based part-time course, which is fantastic, and I'm so glad that they've created this type of course. So they have to have a job working in the lab and then one day a week they need protected time to be doing their coursework. And then it's all sent over to the uni for assessment but they do go two or three times a year to do their exams and they're more than welcome to go over there at any point if there's things that they're struggling with in their own lab. So for instance, students that work in just the Crown and Bridge lab, but they're struggling with the denture side of things or the university is great at just opening the doors to say, come on in and we'll give you the support and help. It's brilliant.
And she's doing this at your lab?
Yeah, so she's working at the lab, yeah, every day.
I was going to say, are you throwing the hard stuff at her or what?
No, she's actually making a pound for sure. I'm making her earn her keep to go to uni because yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not free for her to go to uni. So yeah, the business and I have to pay for that. So yeah, no, she works and She works hard. She does all the retainers and she does all the appliances and does design work on the computer as well. So yeah.
My dad was always so hard on me. I worked for my dad and he was so hard on me in a good way for me to be better, you know, but yeah, he gave me all the harder cases and the tough stuff, but it was a great, great way to learn what I do. So that's awesome. I love that.
Yeah. I've got lots of friends in the industry and this year I will be sending her to work in another lab because it is hard when it's mum. it's bad enough I've got my big sister who I employ, but she's a boss, you know. That situation where having my daughter who's rolling her eyes when I'm asking her to do something and I want to throttle her, you know, I just want to know. But you've just got to be professional. So yeah. I am going to be placing her to a French lab, just a placement. It's just because I want her to see more of the real world.
Oh, I agree. I was in one lab. for 13 years before I went to another lab. You just see something different, experience something different, and you'll learn A lot. Barb, you've never gone to another lab, have you?
No, to be honest with you, no. I've been at one lab my whole career.
Is that your family lab?
Yes, for sure.
Wow.
Sounds pretty new.
So you mentioned this whole story, this whole journey started 30 years ago, and yet you are talking at XOK and Insights. When did digital enter this journey?
Digital, I have been trying from the beginning, from when I'm not very good with dates, so you'll need to excuse me, but WeShape was one of the first softwares that were out there. And as soon as I could get it, you know, I had it. And I wanted it for ortho, but it was really difficult at the time because predominantly there was lots of ortho work coming into my business. But the practices, I was ahead of the practices, let's just see. So trying to get them on board, was quite difficult. So then I decided, OK, I've got this software. I'll just go back and start doing more crown and bridge work because that workflow was so easy. But I was desperate, desperate for digital dentures to be coming through. And I remember I used to design dentures on Three Shape and think, how can I turn them into processed dentures? I couldn't afford the melon machine then. And I used to be, printing them. So for instance, a Harrias Kulsar, you could use their moulds of the teeth and then print monoblock. And I want to flask that, just buy those card teeth and pop them in. So there was lots and lots and lots of different things that I was trying to do before. I became much more available to smaller labs. And so I've always been so desperate for this to come around. And my sister Lorraine, she got really sort of focused on the 3D printing. So we were buying all sorts of hobby printers and working them out because financially, The practices were wanting to pay for, study models that we were having to buy material that was costing hundreds and hundreds of pounds to make the model to make the retainer. So it wasn't cost effective for us to be, in production that way. So we just, we worked it out and we found cheap printers. We found materials that we could print models with. So she'd done a lot of groundwork on that and we ended up with, we were using any cubic printers, we still actually use them to this day all for our ortho models. So we've always been sort of pushing into finding materials and equipment that's more cost effective because we were never in a business that made huge amounts of money that could invest in expensive equipment. It's hard. So I suppose that was part of the love that I had of wanting to learn and find alternative ways to doing things. The wires didn't make lots of money to be honest. I knew about everything, I knew about every system, I knew about lots of different things because I was just fascinated by it all, but trying to do it on a
How did you find and discover Exocad and how amazing it was? You said you started with three shape, but then you obviously moved to Exocad. So what was it and what
brought you there? I had linked up with a big lab in Glasgow where I was giving them a little bit of support for full arch cases. And when I was going into their lab, because they had all the milling, they had all the fancy stuff, but they weren't doing that type of work. And I knew the owners really well. So I was like, well, let me come over, let me learn, you know, about the milling. the machines that you've got and in turn I can, guide you and support you with through large cases. And they had Exocad and from there I used to watch and think, that's quite easy the way that it all stays together. Yeah. And then yeah, they are just having a shot at night and thinking, oh, right, okay. Three shape, it was all I had ever known, and I had worked on Blender for split bars. So that was a learning process in itself. So when I saw Exocad and I was watching how the workflow, you know, where you've got your case and you can go backwards, forwards, I was just like, this is great. So yeah, I started to do some design work there with full arch cases and diagnostics and implant planning and things. So that was where it began and then I got the digital denture. So I got my own EXO CAD and that had all the digital denture stuff and because I was working with C-shape prior to that with dentures. But yeah, EXO CAD, it just made it so much easier. It was It was bliss. It was absolute bliss when I started to work with that. And actually I got involved more with it. So Karen was working with Christina. Oh yeah.
Amazing.
So it was a case we were doing together for an immediate full arch, immediate load full arch bridge. And it was on a charity patient because the practice that I work in, they support a Diamond Smile charity, which It provides dental care for women who have been through drug addiction and go over it or substance abuse. And just women who have been through domestic violence and things. So just helping bring their confidence back. So we work on a case together and There was a weekend that we were logged into each other's, XO CAD, she had this, I had that. And we were going through lots of different, the designs and what we were doing. I was learning from her, she was learning from me. And yeah, we'd come off, after that weekend, we'd spent a good few hours together working on the case and, you know, she said to me, your knowledge is just like, it's so invaluable. And I was laughing, so I'm thinking, no, I'm getting knowledge from you. But yeah, I think from there she mentioned to Exocad just what I was doing, because I was clinical, I was in the patient and with the patient, doing the scanning, just getting more involved and yeah, he's so cool. I've known him from way, way, way back, way back before I was a clinical technician and I was involved with Ivoclar and, way back, way back then. And, yeah, he'd got in touch with me and said that they love the fact Christina was presenting and a lot of the work was my work that was up there and he said you must be so proud of seeing all your work up there. And I was like, I've got mentioned lots of times. It's not like they were, my name wasn't put out there, but yeah, it was good. So then he just said that they possibly were looking for someone to present him with digital dentures and because I work clinically and technically and, you know, and I'm... I was just like, I was so excited. And I remember I got a message. It was at the dental technology show in the UK. I got a message from Leo saying, we'll see you at the after Christina's presentation. I never ran so fast. She's like, see you in bloody XO card. I was like, shh. I was trying to play it cool.
Sometimes you just can't though.
No, it was like, how would you feel? Would you be confident? And I'm like, yeah, absolutely fine. But yeah, it was quite nerve wracking to be honest. It was quite a huge undertaking standing on that stage. It's a big stage.
Oh yeah.
You know, to be honest, I felt that when I'm watching other people's presentations and, you know, they blow you away with all the video and everything. And I'm just like, Jesus, my stuff is just so real. Like, I've not got time. Yeah, I'm still polishing the denture when the patient's in the chair. I'm, you know, these, it's reality for me.
I love that. I love the term real, you know.
To bring that and to be confident and try and ignore the fact that, yeah, they've got all the fancy stuff, but to be honest, how many people in that audience, are doing that type of thing? Or, that have people in the lab making videos and then whatever. So that's what gave me the confidence to say, no, what you're showing is real. It's maybe not perfect, but it's a real workflow and what I do and how I, prepare everything, what I do to create the case and what I do to deliver the case. And just being able to show that there's so many different aspects to Exocad when you deliver dentures or design. So for instance, one of the cases I've done, and it was a peak denture with individual crowns, and you know there was reasons why we'd done that because of the patient's lack of manual dexterity, oral hygiene wasn't great. but why should she not have a denture? Why should she not have a nice smile? So being able to then modify the plan and design to provide her with something that was just gave her that smile and confidence because she attended, she regularly attended, she just struggled. So yeah, things like that just to showcase that a wee bit of thought because the software can provide so many different things. You just, it's just thinking about it. What can we do here to get round these situations, but still be able to create and provide for that case or for that patient? So to be able to show that type of thing to to the audience. I did get good feedback from, the audience saying that it was great because it was real. So it made me feel really proud that then that people sent back that to me as well. So yeah, I was happy over the moon with that.
Are you going to do it again?
No, I would love to. And I absolutely love sharing knowledge and sharing information. And you know, I've just got off a message that I've been messaging our newly qualified CDT on Instagram who wants And I'm just asking him lots of questions. Where are you at? What software have you got? What manufacturing have you got? And I'm going to send him a little process of how, what he should do with his system, what system he uses and just give him a little process to follow because unless you know, it's difficult to make that change and to evolved with that. And I've been asked, I don't know if you're aware of a UK based company, Shotlander. And they're brilliant, absolutely amazing. And they've just released their Enigma Life teeth digital. So I'm now producing dentures and using their teeth instead of melon the teeth. And it's just, I think because I'm analog for like for so many years. And I kind of thought, I push digital because it's easier, but aesthetically, do these teeth look as good as what we were providing with analogue? No, they don't. But ultimately, does the patient see that? You know, I've always had those arguments. But when you can provide the whole process, the digital way, but you can provide that aesthetic finish without any extra, you know, work involved, it's just like, hallelujah. I can mill these denture bases, pop these teeth in on articulator, absolutely perfect, no raised bite, nothing, just absolutely fantastic. And for me, it's about reproducibility to other technicians and how easy to make it for them. So I'm going to be doing a digital roadshow with Shortlander. So we'll be doing a presentation in Glasgow in November, I think.
Good for you.
Yeah, and what my aim is to be able to show labs who are doing, you know, whatever whatever level or where they're at with digital, if they're no digital, if they are some digital, is just to give them information on how they can adapt to benefit their sort of the workflow to make it faster, to make it cheaper, to make it easier, but to give the best result at the end. So whether that's guiding them to different printers, different resins for printing denture bases, they can still process analog way by printing the denture base, pop the teeth in, flask it out. So there's lots of different ways that they can use digital technology and not have to do the full manufacturing and whatever. But even then, just guiding people to what I've learned and what works, what doesn't work for me, and helping them to push it forward. For sure.
There's definitely not only one way to do it, and there's also not one right way to do it. And I think that's what's exciting about it is We can all do it a different way, but as long as you make a good product that's appealing to the patient,
it's a win, it's a win, definitely, and sharing all of those different things, and if I can. If I can let people know all the mistakes I've made and it makes their learning process a wee bit quicker, then I'm happy. I'm more than happy with that.
Or sometimes it's good just to hear that other people make the same mistake you did. Oh yeah, I did that too.
And I still do that, you know. I think that's the worst thing of working here is that, you know, I say, I'll not make that mistake again. And then you're like, I thought you said you're not going to make that mistake again.
I'm going to throw this out there, Exocad. We want Caroline in Chicago.
Oh, wow.
February for the big dental show. I'd love to catch your presentation on digital images. I think it's a great idea.
That would be amazing. Absolutely. So yeah, Exocad, if you're listening, I'm here and I'm ready and I'm available.
There you go.
And you can send Elvis and I to Scott. of course.
Yes. Definitely. Yeah. We would love that. Heck yeah, I would. Oh, no.
Brilliant.
Well, Caroline, thank you so much. What a great story. I had no idea that. You know what's great. behind that clinical dental technician. I love it. Thank you so much.
No, worries. Thank you.
I appreciate it. And if we don't see you in Chicago. Maybe insights next time. Who knows?
Yeah, I know. Don't worry. I'll be pushing. I'll be pushing to preach my digital adventures.
Well, thank you so much. Thank you.
Have a great day.
See you soon. Thank you. It was lovely to speak to you both.
A big thanks to Caroline and a reminder that there really isn't one path into dental technology or one way to do the work. From her early days in Scotland to becoming a clinical dental technician, building her own lab, teaching, working with patients and embracing digital dentistry, she's continued to learn, experiment and share what she's learned with the people around her. And maybe the biggest takeaway, guys, is that you don't have to have the biggest lab or the most expensive equipment to move forward. Sometimes you just have to be curious enough to try something different.
We appreciate you, Caroline, from joining us from Scotland.
And of course, we'll talk to you next week. Have a good one. Have a great week. Bye. Yeah, so I'm trying to get unpacked. I gotta go to the grocery store, get my life back together.
The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.