Hello, Voices from the Bench community. John Wilson here, and I wanted to share some news about the evolution of the Programill lineup. Most importantly, Ivoclar's new Programill 7. What stands out right away is the reduced air consumption this mill requires, but what you'll notice first is that impressive new touchscreen. For us, the biggest advantage has been increased spindle power. You know, my laboratory's known for these larger cases with complex geometries, and I can tell you, That extra power really makes a difference. Next time you see your Ivoclar representative, be sure to ask about the Program 07 and tell them John Wilson sent you. Thank you.
Barb, I feel like Cam's been a pretty big topic on the show lately.
Pretty pig? That's putting it lightly, Elvis.
Yeah, that's fair. But let's be honest, a lot of that comes back to HyperDent.
I see HyperDent everywhere now.
Everywhere indeed. So instead of blabbering on about the software again, let's talk about someone who's been using it the longest.
I love that. So who are we talking about?
Well, the one and only Imagine USA.
Yeah, Elvis, they've been around forever.
Over 15 years of running Hyperdent in their own lab.
That's the difference maker, right? They're selling and supporting it, but they're also using it for their own production every single day.
Exactly. And they've run what? Like over a dozen different type of machines with it.
At least. So when they're supporting a customer, they rarely see an issue that they haven't already solved for themselves.
Right. And it seems like Like all that experience is what's led them to release their own line of milling equipments. The iMills.
Oh yeah, the iMills. That's a great name. And it also includes the recent integration of Ivotion denture pucks, right?
Oh, that's right. I love this stuff, man. Them and Roland, which believe it or not, Imagine also sells and supports.
That's a pretty powerful lineup. I'd love to learn more. Have you connected with Felix yet?
I am working on it. He's got an interesting backstory, especially how he took over Imagine USA more than 15 years ago, back when they were calling it just iMilling. They were one of the first labs to bring titanium production in-house.
Lock it in, Elvis. We need him on this podcast. Stack.
All right, I'm on it.
All right, Matthew McConaughey.
Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info@voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 423 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
And my name's Barbara.
What's happening, Barb? How are you? Sounds like you're out and about.
I just pulled the car over and I'm taking my 2 German short-haired pointers for a run.
Do they keep up with you pretty well?
Let's put it this way. I keep up with them pretty well. It's like grassy and like a bunch of potholes and it's kind of like a very long, like, you know, where power lines are. It's just like a long piece of land. So it's just for them to just go nuts and I try to keep up with them.
I love it.
Yes.
I love it. So they pull you. They probably keep you going the whole time.
Pretty much. Yes, that is correct. What about you, my friend?
Well, I am getting ready to leave. in like 2 days. We've just started packing. Yeah, we're actually, this is the last of our pre-recorded episodes. And by the time it comes out, sadly, Exocad Insights 2026. It's over. We had a great time. Thanks, everybody.
We did, actually.
We know we will. We don't have an update on that because like I said, we're recording early. So tune in next week. We're going to talk all about what happened, the amazing event, the adventures we went on. It's going to be great. I know it will be. So thanks again, Exocad, for inviting us to this amazing thing.
Exactly. No doubt.
This week we talked to a giant in our industry.
Oh, he likes using that word, doesn't he? Giant.
Kent Kohli got into dentistry because he married the daughter of an orthodontist. I mean, that's one way to do it. After realizing that in the mouth was not really ideal for him, he eventually found a dental lab and actually we're all better because of it. Yes, Kent is a self-described learner and a copier of other technicians. And he really spends the good part of this episode thanking the ones that got him to where he is today.
Yep, he's amazing.
He calls him giants. And you know what? We call him a giant too. From learning from the Archibalds to owning his own lab to partnering with great companies like Noritake and Ivoclar, Kent has picked up a lot over his journey and he's always willing to share. But now he's the newest member of Ivoclar as their new director of technical digital services, and we couldn't be happier. So join us as we chat with Kent Kolay.
It feels like everything's gotten a whole lot tighter lately. Costs are up, timelines are shorter, and labs are expected to do more without adding more headcount or increasing overhead.
And when that happens, you really start to notice what parts of your workflow are pulling their weight. And of course, which ones aren't.
Especially guys with your milling. If it's down, if it's slow, if it's inconsistent, everything backs up. And believe me, I know because it makes me nuts. And let's just say the you know what hits the fan?
And that's why a lot of labs trust Roland DG shape. It's not flashy, it just works. Day in, day out, you turn it on, it runs, and you don't have to babysit it.
And guys, that consistency makes a difference. Fewer remakes, less wasted material, and your team can actually stay focused on kitting cases out the door.
Where the real ROI comes from. It's not just what the machines can do, it's how often it actually does it without slowing you down.
And now. With the Elevate Denture Solution, labs can step into digital dentures in a way that actually fits into their workflow.
Right. With A validated, patent-protecting CAM strategies and Ivotion compatibility, you're not starting from scratch. You're building on a system you already trust.
You're looking for a way to improve efficiency and make your production a little more predictable, or a lot more predictable as it were.
Take a look at DG Shape DWX Milling Solutions and the Elevate Dental Solution at RolandDental.com. Voices from the bench. The interview. How do you pronounce your last name?
I pronounce it Kohli, but everybody else pronounces it Kohli.
So just think of E. Kohli. It's not spelled the same. And now you'll never forget it.
You got to find a more positive thing to associate with.
Oh, I know. You should talk to my second oldest daughter. Her name is Alexis E. Kohli.
Oh my God. Oh my God.
She was pre-med and yeah, she got... teased quite a bit.
And she's pre-med.
She was, yeah. She ended up going into finance and she's a MBA in finance now, but it was funnier when she was in...
E. Kohli. Jesus. That's awesome. we are excited today because we're actually having a delayed conversation. We were supposed to talk before Lab Day Chicago. Things happen. We get it. But we're still extremely happy to catch up with Kent Kohli. I think I E. Kohli. Kohli.
Yeah.
Kent Kohli, who's now with Ivoclar, but I know has a long history of labs. Kent. How are you, sir?
I'm doing fine. Thank you for the invitation.
Yeah, absolutely. I've known about you. I don't know if we've ever met, but we've crossed paths, I'm sure, at many a shows. But I know you have a history with some big labs, some good labs, some companies. How'd you get started into this mess?
Well, the short answer is, that I married my orthodontist's eldest daughter. Nice. Yeah. The long answer is she and I went to school together for all of junior high and high school. I grew up in the Midwest, but moved out west to Utah. I was a music major playing a trumpet on scholarship my freshman year. And then I went overseas for a couple of years. left the States and lived in Italy. And that was my first exposure even prior to having orthodontia. And of all places, the home of Dental Arte lab benches, and the other bench was a similar company. So I was like, wow, what is it all about? And suffice it to say that once I got engaged to my wife, my father-in-law said, Welcome to the family. He said, at the time I had switched to architectural engineering and had just gotten accepted into the program at the University of Utah. And he said, no, He said, I'm going to be retiring in about 10, 15 years and you're going to dental school and you're going to become an orthodontist. It wasn't quite that firm, but more or less that was the idea.
Okay, wait a minute. Let's slow down here for a second. Your father-in-law.
My father-in-law.
And you had no interest to go into dental. He was just like, you're going to do this because you're marrying my daughter?
I was always a very good student, but my father-in-law, who just passed away, that was part of the family emergency that caused us to have to reschedule. He was a lifelong mentor to me. And he was so passionate about orthodontics and was probably the most, what's the word I'm looking for? Had the most integrity, wouldn't extract bicuspids or anything. And he was- Oh.
Even back in the day when everybody did.
Exactly. And he was so passionate about orthodontics that I became fascinated. So I started working in the ortho lab. in 1991 and I changed my major pre-dental and to get additional dexterity, I started working in a dental laboratory and I was doing, everybody has to learn to sling plaster in the beginning, right?
Oh God, yes, true.
And that guy didn't even have a position available, but he just said he felt like prompted or inspired that I needed to hire this kid. And I will tell you that that was a pivotal moment for me. because all of a sudden, working in the laboratory, he had me finishing metal. And I couldn't understand why these guys were building up the cusp tips and the occlusal cusp tips and incisal edges, you know, and making them two or three millimeters thick, because I just had to grind them down and put a hole in them most of the time.
True that.
Yeah. But as the case was back in the day, you could only learn maybe one or two skills and you weren't shown everything and there wasn't really an exchange. And I know Barb, you remember those days too, and maybe it wasn't so different, Elvis, when you came on board, but there was not an exchange of information because you always feared that you were training your next competitor who was going to take everything you had taught and set up down the street and take your clients. You know, and it was a really cutthroat, price-cutting landscape. And then it kind of got better, and now we're back to the race to the bottom in some respects. But anyway, when it came time to go to dental school, I took the Kaplan preparation, did all my prereqs, and I was a really good student, but it didn't come easy because I was very right-brained at the time. And I said it was a long story. So anyway, I. No, you're fine.
You like long stories. Trust me.
Yeah. I applied to dental school. And then after I would.
Hold on, you applied to dental school. So you took his advice and you're like, I'm going to do it.
I did. Yep. And that was a couple of years of taking prereqs. I was already halfway along in my college career. And So I changed majors, and as you do when you change majors, you gotta take a bunch more credits. But instead of graduating with a bachelor's degree, I ended up completing basically what was the equivalent of five years of college, thinking that I was just gonna go on to dental school, because at that time, you didn't have to have a bachelor's. And so anyway, did what was necessary, physics. calculus, biochem, organic, inorganic, physiology, anatomy with cadavers. It was fascinating. But all along, knowing in my heart of hearts that where my real passion was, was in art and in dentistry, I came to learn that it was in ceramics. And that one guy that hired me, his name was Martin McKinney, military trained, because he had listened to that little voice in his head or whatever you want to call it, he changed the course of my life. And so, yeah, it was pretty awesome.
When you say that, he was the one that brought you into the lab and didn't really pay you, but you got to see and learn and work with your hands.
You learned early we don't make any money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so what, you fell in love with it right then and there.
I did. The blend of technology, a little bit of engineering, a lot of art. And I remember he would like shrink as a person when he heard the doctor walking up the stairs and he would start mumbling and murmuring. And I'm a pretty observant guy and I was trying to take it all in. every time this doctor came to the top of the stairs, which was unusual, right? Because all laboratories were in basement without windows. Yeah, well, this was the opposite. You know, put us on a pedestal, if you will. And anyway, Marty would shrink. And so I kind of started to see that, that there was kind of an interesting relationship. And combined with the fact that nobody wanted to share anything, I I was like, communication is the enemy, and this seems really strange. Maybe I could do it differently?
How big was this lab? Was there quite a few technicians?
It was not large at all. It was a relatively small lab, and Martin was an amazing technician. I think he was trained in the Navy, but there were only four of us in the laboratory.
Oh, wow.
So you got to learn everything.
No, he told me, he said, You are so eager and I wish I had the time to teach you everything. You can work here as long as you want. But he said, I know there's this school down south in Utah, and it's at some fancy institution that does dental research. And he said, how about if I make some phone calls? And I don't think he ever was able to make a phone call. But again, I was still working chairside for my father-in-law because I had just made this decision in my mind. And at the time, I was accepted to dental school. And I basically had proven to myself and proven to my father-in-law that I could do it, that I had stick-to-itiveness. But when dad finally came around, you know, and I had the courage to tell him, He, of course, I was his son by this time and we had a really special kinship. And it was a great foundation because he only used clinical terminology with me. And that has served as a great foundation and kind of given me a kind of an extra competitive advantage because I already felt very comfortable around doctors and realized Hey, they put on their pants the same way that I do.
My dad used to say that.
Yeah, they're real people. And there's good ones and there's not so good ones. And we all know that. But one of the doctors in the building that I really got to know who was dad's best friend, Dr. Brooke Olson out there in Northern Utah, he said, Hey, your dad told me that you decided not to go to dental school, but congratulations on getting accepted. He said, you love the ortho lab and the dental lab. He said, have you ever thought of making caps? And I'm like, I had not heard that.
Making what?
Making caps.
Oh my God, that's an old word.
Yeah, and I said. It's almost an insult. What are you talking about? And Brooke said, yeah, you know, making a fake tooth, a cap. And he said, some people call them crowns, but around here we call them caps. And he said, sometimes you'll do a couple of them in a row and we call it a bridge. And I said, no, I haven't. And he said, well, I know you're working in a lab. Have you thought about going into the lab business? And I said, as a matter of fact, I have, but Marty's busy and he's been very gracious, but I don't even know where I go. And having the mentality of doing pre-dental and being a committed student. Brooke said, Hey, there's this school down south at this research facility, and it's known at least all over North America. And he said, Maybe I could make a phone call. And I had heard that before, but Brooke did. Brooke made a- You got a.
Lot of people making phone calls for you.
I know, right? Or saying they will.
Yeah, and he's a dear friend. I ended up doing work for his son-in-law, if you fast forward years later, but he made the phone call and he got me an interview at CRA with Gordon Christensen's technician, John, Jed's dad, and Mikey's dad. And I went in there and I watched him build a couple of crowns and he gave me a test where I had to carve a piece of chalk, which I also had to do to apply to dental school. And, you know, that's not very easy because it's kind of like carving zirconia. It's super brittle. You got to know what you're doing. But I managed to pass the test and, you He said, okay, I've got an opening coming up in 1995, May. And at this point, it was like 1993, January.
Come on.
Yeah.
What the hell?
Yeah, I'm like, okay, well, put me on the list. And I said, but if you have a cancellation, my wife was with me, by the way, and she's like, yeah, this is right up your alley. You're gonna love this. You know, that little voice again spoke to me and said, hey, this is what you need to do. And I got so excited. I went back home and started, you know, this was before the internet. I really sound old now, but, or right around the time that Al Gore created the internet. Yeah. Laugh out loud. And anyway, so I did, I went to the library is what I did. And I researched it. And to this point, my boss out there in Northern Utah hadn't really set aside time for me to watch him. So I knew it kind of looked like sugar in a bottle. And PFMs were the restoration of choice unless somebody wanted to do all ceramics. I learned that later. But John called me the 1st of May, the same year, and he said, hey, I just had a cancellation and a gentleman's wife was diagnosed with Ms. I could sense your passion already. Is that something you could work out? And I said, when do I start without even talking to my wife? I said, can you be here in three weeks? And so literally it was the day before my, let's see, 1993, I would have been 25 years old. The day before my 25th birthday, I started my career in learning ceramics. So I'd been a technician for a couple of years, if you want to call it that, putting holes in metal frameworks and pouring bubbles in stone models. And I started, and I was like, man, I had goosebumps and... And then he said, Oh, your microscopes are coming, you know, later this week. And that was one of the most humbling experiences, but- Why?
'Cause you didn't realize you couldn't see or what?
Yeah, and you know, besides being a beginner and not being good at it because we were using Bunsen burners and instruments and getting the cadence down where too hot, too cold, and just not being able to really work with it. And then electric waxers had just barely come out.
Wow.
And I had been, of course, reading everything I could get my hands on. And there was this magazine called LMT.
Yeah.
And I'm like, Belle to Sinclair, who is that?
And we met him.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yep. And so I ended up ordering one on my own. And the cost of the program in 1993 was about 14 grand To me, that was a ton of money. And to show you how much my father-in-law had faith in me, he said, I'll pay the loan and you pay me back.
So was he okay with you switching gears and realizing that you wanted to go to lab?
He kind of came around to it. He said, you would be really good at this. And I know it's a lot of pressure to graduate first in your class because at that time, the number one specialty You had to be number one or worst case scenario, number two.
Wow.
And I was a great student, but it didn't come easily. And I knew, you know, you have to be honest with yourself as well. I hated working in the mouth chair side and I literally cut all the ligature wires and pulled the arch wires out, you know, and he bent all of the wires himself and then I would tie them back in and I took all of the x-rays, all of the records appointments, all of the photography. the impressions and a whole bunch of other things. And whenever I got in the laboratory, I was just at home. So I knew early on.
Yeah.
My right brain was like, yeah.
But his whole goal was for you to take over that practice. What did he end up doing?
Yeah, it was, you know, he only had one son eventually that would go into the business.
Oh, okay.
And he ended up being one of my clients as well, but he did not go to ortho school. He was super bright and is super bright. And he went to Indiana University and they called him Edward Scissorhands because, of course, dad had him go into the lab and get dexterity and he worked chairside like I did. And again, kind of going back to my statement, it was a really great foundation because I got to learn the terminology. I got to work in the mouth. I got familiar with the mouth. I got an appreciation for trying to build a crown inside of a Coke can, because that's, you know, and I've got big hands. I'm 6 foot 2, 250 pounds, and my hands were long. I'm left-handed, and I worked from a 9 o'clock position, which is typically for a right-handed person.
Interesting.
And to be honest, I think that had a lot to do with my frustration working in the mouth is I should have been at a 12 or three o'clock position as lefties do.
Ah, that's kind of genius for realizing that.
Well, I didn't realize that at the time, but I did, you know, if I could have moved to the 12 o'clock position, but the operatory wasn't set up that way. But anyway, it was all, I think, a stepping stone as many things in our life and our career are. And I I have no regrets. It was an excellent foundation. I got very comfortable being around other dentists. I did things socially with my father-in-law. And anyway, I went to a lot of clinical conventions, ortho, symposia and stuff, but I owe everything to dad and John Archibald.
So when you got into John's school, how much did you bring from the other lab? Do you think it made it easier or did you pretty much have to relearn everything?
Some things. So I had only started doing crown and bridge waxing not too long before he made the call. So I had a little bit of dexterity with a Bunsen burner, but I had never waxed a full contour restoration. I could finish a full contour restoration, but there wasn't monolithic in the sense that there is now. When I was in school, this really cool box arrived and on the side of it, it said EMPRESS. And I'm like, John, what is this? And I drove John crazy. If you ask Jed and Mikey-- Questions. Jed was nine years old. And during the summer, he would come and live with his dad. And the guy could draw anything. The guy, the kid could draw anything. He would sit over near me sometimes. He didn't say a word to anybody. But Jed Archibald was a fabulous artist. And his brother Mikey came in about the same time. And The Archibalds are family to me. That's great. You can't talk about John without getting choked up. And one of the best ceramists and technicians I've ever known and really, you know, you remember the movie Dead Poets Society.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Robin Williams was in a great movie and they called him Captain, my captain. And that's how I think of John because I was already all about excellence and everything I did, I did my best. And John introduced me to the European philosophy. As best as you could learn it, wasn't didactic, it wasn't academic, although I bought every book that Quintessence had because I was still in that university mindset and-.
Well, can you describe for me even, what is the European philosophy?
Yeah, so Barb, I can't remember if you went to a trade school or if you- No, I did not. And your dad, like a lot of my kids all worked in the laboratory. And fortunately, most of them were bright enough to see that, hey, this is long hours. And you got to pay attention.
Get me out of here.
Yeah, so anyway, the European philosophy, and I've come to learn it very well, is they graduate from high school. And in some countries, their senior year or even junior and senior year is concurrent with their first years of lab school. And they'll go to lab school for several years, maybe three years in some countries, maybe four in others. It's almost all practical hands on. Yeah, you got to do your own study in that, but it's kind of like if you think of a master or what do they call them, a journeyman electrician or a journeyman plumber, journeyman welder, sheet metal fabricator, it's more of a trade. And so the mentality that we have in the trades here is mostly practical, if you go into a technical school. Well, John saw that because he had studied with Klaus Murtis and Walter Gebhard and of course, Willie Geller and Ubasi and others. And he learned from them that he always was a great teacher. He was fabulous. And so he kind of created a program that was different than the one that he went to many years before I did. And his classmate, his best classmate was Jim Glidewell, which is interesting.
Oh my God, you're kidding me.
Oh wow.
Yeah, so it was all practical and John loved books too. One of his favorites was Cabela's. But anyway, he loved lab technology books. And he instilled a lot of really great things to me. What I didn't say is I drove him so crazy because I wanted to come in early. I wanted to stay late. And he gave me a key to the laboratory 6 days into my education. And he would say, Get out of here, you fat head. You know, just loving your brother way. It sounds terrible, but it was really fun.
It was a term of endearment, right?
It was absolutely a term of endearment. And if you've ever met John Archibald, I'm a big guy, but John makes me look little. And he's got this flowing Grizzly Adams hair that's silver. And I affectionately refer to him as the Silver Fox. But John has been like my number one supporter and everything I've done, I've tried to bring honor to dad and to his name. And, you know, I struggle to think where I would be. Would I have ended up a frustrated and unhappy dentist because my passion really was in the lab, but you know.
Yeah, you'd be stuck just doing Invisalign now.
Yeah, exactly. And he hated the people who did Invisalign as it came out about. Sure.
I could imagine how that industry got rocked.
But my father-in-law was really progressive too. We were starting to do indirect bonding, just he and I. I would set the teeth or the brackets based upon what you would teach me. in the spring of 1991. So dad was always looking for, or let's say in pursuit of a more excellent way. And that actually became my lab mantra in pursuit of a more excellent way. And I am not a world-class ceramist. I am not much better than the average guy. But the one thing I will tell you that I think I may be one of the best at is copying and studying the best. And I really don't have any intellectual property. Everything I know, I learned from somebody else. And so one of the things that you may know about me is I'm passionate about getting education. And it's a lifelong journey, right? It makes it fun. The bar is getting raised, you know? Every class I've ever taught, there's always been at least one person who was a better technician. And I get as much out of it as the participants do. And after you've really been blessed in your life, 'cause it really has been a blessing in my, when you've been blessed to be surrounded by all these amazing teachers and mentors, the guys and ladies that I refer to as the giants, and I don't wanna say this to offend Barb, but Barb is one of the giants. What? Barb is probably, she's probably younger than me. But you were one of the first to get accredited in the AACD as a technician. And I know that process and I started down the path and Barb did it when it wasn't the popular thing to do. She did it when it actually-.
I did it when Warren Rogers made me do it. Yeah, you're always- You will get accredited.
Yeah, but I'm sure you have your own story and you can never learn enough, you can never continue to learn enough. And when you, I feel like you have a stewardship or a responsibility. And it's interesting because there was a conversation that started on, I think it was Facebook. Yeah, I think it was Facebook and it was John Wilson out in California.
Yeah, he's so great.
Who's a good friend and also I consider him one of the giants and I've learned a lot from him in a very short time of knowing him, but he started a question or a thread and you know, when I was brand new, John Archibald told me, you need to align yourself with a company out of school, because everybody that leaves John's school is on a path to owning their own business. I happened to be one who didn't have a place to go to do lab work in my own business. And so John placed me with a really amazing dentist up in the very northwest corner of Montana. But John is the one who really helped me, and I used creation porcelain in school. I used an old porcelain called Sinspar, and John and I were doing testing for Ibaclar. I should say John was doing testing. I was having fun for Empress, which came out maybe a short time before that. But John got all the cool stuff. Everybody sent him all of their new materials because his opinion really mattered, and it still matters. But John said, you need to align yourself with a company. And at the time, Vida North America and Jensen and Ivocar were the companies that were giving education.
Yeah.
And so I started in school doing gold crowns my second or third week for John, and I was doing them for his clients. And I learned so much because I was actually getting to see my stuff upstairs in the mouth in Gordon's patients. it was a really quick learning curve working in-house. And so I bought Creation right out of school, and I bought the Empress system right out of school. And Vita was beautiful, but I just had to... to choose those two. And I call it the road less traveled. And the only reason I say that, you know, because the end of that is and that that has made all the difference or that is the difference. And so I partnered with Ibaclar and by so doing, it made such a difference for me. My classmates went into high production and low prices. And out of school, John told me, you need to charge $120 a unit for your PFMs plus metal, and you need to charge $125 a unit for your Empress all ceramic, and you need to charge $200 a unit for your Felspathic veneers. that I either did on refractory or platinum foil. And I preferred refractory. And I was so much higher than my competition. And it's hard enough to break in. But again, you know, because I associated with Jensen and the Oral Design Group, I just felt like my curve was exponentially accelerated and my classmates were out of the business in less than five years because they burned out. because it was the race to the bottom and they were doing 20 units a day. And Debbie, my wife, was keeping track of my time. And I never worked on Sunday because I had obligations at church. I always went home for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but I was working almost 100 hours a week. A lot of that was due to miscasts when we were casting metal and you're new out of school. But I worked with a quintessence book on the left and a quintessence book on the right on easels. And I produced a whopping 40 units a month for the first 12 to 18 months.
40 units a month.
A month.
Working a hundred hours a week.
Yeah. Let's say I wasn't productive, obviously.
Yeah.
But you know what? It's probably one of the happiest times for sure in my married life. And I remember my gross, I wouldn't even tell you what my dollar per hour was because it's pathetic, but my gross pay was $1,500 a month working 100 hours a week. And I'm not exaggerating because my wife, about 18 months into it, she's like, yeah, John said you could make 6 figures when he got into this. And she was kind of do it jokingly, but you guys weren't kidding earlier when you said that I didn't really get paid in the beginning. But I always believed that you got to go to medical school, whatever your profession is, you got to go to school and you got to pay your dues. And I make myself sound old, but I think you really build character through that experience. And there are a lot of younger generation technicians that I know personally, who maybe I had a very, very small part in teaching them early on. And you'll know the names. Pang Lore is one of the people that I'm most proud of. And the other one is Henry Bradford, who's the tooth geek on social media.
The tooth geek, yeah.
And I have goosebumps because I had the privilege in 2018 of inviting Pang into a lab that I was a fractional owner of. and did really high-end work. And he came in and now the student was the teacher and the teacher was the student. And those two, there have been others, but those two in particular, you don't start teaching because you say, oh, I want to be a KOL or a teacher. Back in the day, you had to really learn and you had to master certain techniques. And if you were lucky and you really fell in love with one company, then you might get an invitation. And I think it's a little bit different nowadays, but there's still people out there like Henry and Pang and the Park brothers. And I probably shouldn't start naming them because there are so many young.
Yeah, you're going to forget something. I am.
All they do is go on social media and start showing their work. And you know, nowadays, I think it's easier to get people to look at you and and be into your work.
I totally agree. And John and I have had multiple conversations and many others. And I think I'm in a really unique position now that I'm at Ibel Klar. And I feel like I was when I was North American Technical Director for Noritaki, which is now Karate Noritaki. and also where I got my start at Jensen. Now I have all these people that have blessed my life, and they truly had a servant leadership mentality. I studied with Thomas Schmidt. He taught me how to do in gold what I could do with wax. And Uwe Brosamli, you remember Uwe, he used to teach for Ivaclar. He taught me to do what I could do in wax and gold in ceramic using the drop wax technique. Wow. But again, you know, I listed them on Facebook when I responded to John's post. And I think there's no fewer than three dozen that I listed. And I'm sure I left somebody off. And they're the giants, you know, and their skills aren't being passed on anymore because nobody's teaching layering. so I would be remiss if I didn't mention another one of the Giants. And there's no way you can forget this guy. His name's Don Cornell. He would hate that I was talking about him right now because he's not that kind of guy.
Yeah.
Don actually played football in college and he kind of reminds me of the story about the Los Angeles Rams quarterback. He's just like the All-American guy. he ages well. He's got an amazing wife and Shannon and his son, is in the business. And but Don gave me the shirt off his back and he didn't know me from Adam. But when I hired him to teach for Authentic and Microstar, that was a pivotal moment in my career. And I got to go to every class he taught. And I asked more questions than the other people participating. And I remember Pinkusadar one time asked if he could buy my notes, which is kind of funny. And I was good friends with Pink. He, of course, was joking. But I draw illustrations. And sometimes I felt like the guys were going to throw me out of the class because I was there representing Microstar. But Don Cornell has done a ton for me personally and for this industry. And Don, if you're listening, buddy, I know we don't see each other often, but thank you. Thank you. So, I can't take any credit for my opportunities. I was blessed to be in the right place at the right time with the right people, and that made all the difference.
Hey, it's all about who you know.
Absolutely. It's been a very rewarding career, and I at least have 10 years left of doing it full time, but I feel like I'm in a unique position to facilitate those techniques being taught again, not necessarily by me, but by KOLs.
Yeah. Let me stop you. What do you mean by that? Is that your role? role at Ivoclar, where you meet these people and you said you facilitate the learning from them.
Yeah, so because I feel like it really has been a blessing to be aligned with Ivoclar, not only as an educator for me, giving me the skill sets, but also giving me the materials. Same thing with Noritake. I still love their ceramics, you know. Jensen Creation is a great porcelain. It's much better today than when I started with it. All of the wish list has long since been satisfied. liquid ceramics, as they're called, have come along. And I used Mio for eight years. And I was still working at the bench up until August the 11th. which is when I left the laboratory that I was working in doing high-end cases. And so Ivaclar- Like last August? Yes, yeah. So, I think we're missing a gap.
Before we get you to Ivaclar, let's see, you were with Archibald. You left, you opened your own lab.
I did, yeah. I started. I started and I'm almost embarrassed to tell you the name now because.
Is it E. Kohli.
No, that's good though. You're so funny. If I had been smart, that would have been catchy enough that everybody would have just been interested, right? And given me a shot, if not just to throw jokes and puns at me, but.
Sure.
Now the first lab I started in John's lab, And I started doing ceramic work as I learned it probably about four or five months in, and I was working for a doctor in Bigfork, Montana. And he really just, he kind of had pity on me because I look back and I named my lab Artistic Dental Ceramics. Yeah, that's not bad. Well, you look back on your work and if you're really honest with yourself and you're always trying to improve, you look back and you always kind of say, wow, I really thought that was okay. I never really have thought of myself as anything better than average, to be honest. But I told you guys that the only thing I am really good at is I'm an expert student and I'm pretty good at copying success. I guess I'm a student of success is probably what you would say, but I will. Yeah, so I started the lab in school.
Interesting. Why did you not like the name? I'm a bit confused. It's not that.
No, I'm just saying that in retrospect, it almost sounds arrogant. And I really wasn't arrogant. I just wanted people to know that Hey, I love this already. I love it and I'm striving to do this. I get it.
Yeah.
And when I finally got the gig in Montana with somebody that had come to CRA for classes, I had my own lab and I was in-house 60 miles from the northwest corner border of Canada and Montana. And I was in a lab in a basement. The lab was 10 feet wide by 14 feet long and it didn't have a single window. And that's where I spent 100 hours a week. And it, was all good. But I, at the time I got to seat my own restorations because they had expanded functions in Montana.
You'll learn a lot doing that.
Yeah, I took a shade on every single tooth, even second molars. And so when they seated them, Oftentimes, not every tooth, but oftentimes I would see all of them once they were cemented, but I would get to see them and quickly I learned what a proper contact should be and what proper occlusion should be. And meanwhile, I was spending any little spare bit of change on continuing education. And, you know, I really would never do it differently. And we ate a lot of five cent cones at McDonald's.
Saving your money for education.
We did. And I can tell you, I think a very conservative estimate would be somewhere between a half a million and 600,000 over my career. And I met some of the most wonderful people in the whole wide world. And one of those people who I think every technician's dream teacher is Walter Gebhard. in Zurich. And he was in the shadow of Willie and was apparently good friends with Willie. But Willie didn't feel like he needed to, let's say, anoint him as one of his disciples, if you will.
Interesting.
But I spent a day with Walter after I went to Liechtenstein for Ibuclar back the end of January. My last day there, I set aside and I communicated with Walter, whom I met about five years into my career. And he's 69. He's still working hard. And it's like he loves his patients, I think, more than their doctors love their patients. And, he's just pushing the bar and he embraced digital to facilitate greater artistry. And those are the giants, and he doesn't go and teach anymore because he doesn't like to travel. He's in extremely good health. But gosh, it's a pinch me kind of thing that for some reason I was really blessed to be able to literally stand on the shoulders of giants. And my kids' vernacular. I learned cheats or I learned hacks. They shared all of their secret sauce willingly and without any expectation. They had no idea what a brand was really.
Right.
And these people, they didn't teach classes because they wanted to pound their chests and run down the court and let everybody know that it really is about me.
Yeah, look how great I am.
And they'd walk around and they'd kneel down next to you and they would spend whatever time it took to make sure you had an individualized experience. And I'm not saying that there aren't good teachers out there today because there's some really good ones still. But I feel like with the advancement of materials in many great companies, three or four I already named, the materials work in our favor, not against us. And Barb, I know you have a ton of experience like I do in all ceramics.
Right.
And you probably did those Felzpathic veneers as well, and they're kind of making a comeback. The lab I just left, we were doing...
Was that a sigh?
Yes, that was a large sigh.
Yeah. First of all, prep less. So minimally invasive is the buzz now again. We've already been there and done that in about 1% or fewer of the patients that see a doctor or even candidates. And then what about... Thank you.
Very well said.
And one of the other blessings I had was when I was at Utah Valley, we had Dr. David Hornbrook, who was our medical director. And I got to rub shoulders with a guy multiple times every month. And he became a dear friend. And what an awesome mentor. And Dr. Mark Montgomery was called the Hornbrook Group. And it was just an amazing experience to learn from those guys. And to hear about their journey. And David was probably one of the very earliest people in the AACD. He founded PAC Live and he founded LBI with Bill Dickerson. And David's had longevity. And I got to tell you that he's in his mid-60s because I celebrated his 60th with him. And the guy's more passionate than any educator on the circuit right now.
Hornbrook.
Yes.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome. I love it. I see him on Facebook.
Yeah, the guys, I can tell you, from personal experience, his honoraria are very reasonable for what he brings to the table. His favorite thing to do is to teach brand new students. He has a program with a group called the Crown Council, and it's called the Young Dentist Award, and he awards one young dentist based on certain criteria, but he gives for free. to the Crown Council every year. It's sold out every year in terms of participation. The tuition doesn't go to him, it goes to the Crown Council. Actually, I don't think they charge tuition if you belong. In any way, it'll be 40 or 50 people that come. He has a live patient. They come for didactic and immersion before, and then they come for prep weekend, and it's several days each time. And then they get a see him seat, this cosmetic case, interact with the patient, take all kinds of photographs. And he's one of the giants, and he gives them his secret sauce. And there's a lot of people that paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. So there's lots of giants. And as John Wilson so aptly said the other night, cheers to the giants because, man, we wouldn't be here and be doing the things that we do without the sacrifices and the blood, sweat, and tears, and the passion and devotion of the Giants.
You're one of them, Barb.
Yeah, thanks.
Yeah, she really is.
I appreciate it, honestly, sincerely.
That was a lot that I said, but to answer your question in short, so my role at Ibaclar North America is I replaced some really amazing people. There's a real legacy here, and the last one was Jeff Smith, who was military trained, ran the entire U.S. military's dental laboratory training program before he came to Ivoclar. And I am really blessed to work this company as great as it is as a customer and a partner. I love to come to work instead of Sunday night anxiety about the double arch all on X case. I got to have out by Monday at 430 because UPS comes at 10 to 5.
Yeah.
Now I get anticipatory anxiety. I I'd rather be here than at home most of the time, because as I mentioned, my wife is kind of struggling with some health issues and she's in Utah most of the time. So I'm living the bachelor life, so why not be where I really enjoy it? And so my role as North American Technical Director, part of it was to work with the Director of Professional Development and Education, which is Shashi, Dr. Shashi. And he does the clinical program And he oversees all of education, but I wanted to return us to our roots. Like Ivoclar has always been a leader in lab education. And why do we have to stay doing only webinars just because COVID is over? And now we have some really new, exciting products that people are hearing about. And I feel like because I was given this special gift of being in the right place at the right time and people were generous enough to say, hey, here's your compass. Go align yourself with Jensen. Go align yourself with Ivoclar. Go align yourself with Noritake. And go align yourself with Zubler and Microstar. And there's so many companies. Because I was given that, you feel compelled and you feel a... I'll call it a stewardship to pass it on, right? Pay it forward. And that's overused too much, but really I wrote my bio probably in 97 and it's mostly the same in terms of what's my passion. Like when I go home and scroll on social media, I think there's a limit to 3,500 or 3,600 Facebook friends. Yeah. 99.8% of 35 or 3,600 people are dental professionals throughout the world. And so I've heard you guys call it dental ****. Yeah. I can't get enough of it. In fact, I think it's causing me to not have a really high quality sleep every night because, you know, you can learn so much in YouTube University. And that's where this younger generation is harnessing the power of the technology is to facilitate. You don't have to go physically somewhere, but I still say there's so much value in doing hands-on. Like Jensen's been teaching meal courses for years. That's some amazing educators. One in particular is from Great Britain, Alina, and maybe you've had- Hell yeah.
We've had her, yep.
She's awesome. And I've only gotten to know her just a little bit through conversations on social media. I was supposed to meet her in Chicago and then we had the death in the family. But, you know, Jensen's does, probably has done one of the best jobs. since COVID for sure. Vida is not like in the same place and that's not a criticism. It's more of an observation. They still have great products, but they're not doing hands-on to the degree. Pete Peasy was one of their main educators, Ed McLaren and some others. But I want to return in the truest sense Ivaclar Technical and Digital Services, which is my stewardship, and help this generation to learn some of those skills. And comprehensive layering is not even... efficient or practical or necessary anymore. But I think there's a place in layering incisors, at least micro layering. Yeah, some places you can nail with liquid ceramics, no doubt. And I was a skeptic, even though I started using it, you know, like eight years ago with Neil, but some places I still think you benefit from a little bit of that depth of a translucent incisal incisal overlay.
Well, is Ivaclar doing hands on right now?
Oh, yeah.
Was there any in Chicago?
We We did in Chicago and felt, in fact, our marketing manager here, John Isherwood.
We love John. Hi, John.
Yeah, I love John as well. And John, you know, gave me a leg up the first time I started doing my own, I think it was, he was at Eris. So I started with Empress 2 back when that was painful. It's painful for all of us. We don't like it. But without the failures that we learned so much from, it came to fruition from Empress 2 to Eris and now today what we have Emacs. And I don't remember, it's tens of millions of successful restorations.
Yeah, you hit the mother load with Emacs. Let's all agree on that.
Yeah. And I can't take credit for it, but I can tell you that it doubled my income the first year that I, when they really mastered that product, it doubled my income and Barb, I'm sure you would agree, and this was the case. When I went to Utah Valley in June of 2018, I was shocked. I knew a lot about the lab. I had spent time teaching in the lab, and I was really good friends with many people there. So for me, it was almost a homecoming from living in Nevada and managing a guided surgical specialty laboratory. They, or we, were doing 120 to 150 units a day of all ceramics.
Now we're talking.
Steve, I know you had it in you. 85% was IPS Empress.
Yeah.
And it was Dr. Hornbrook's favorite material. And I, you know, Barb, you know, and I know, and Elvis, maybe you worked with it too, but It might be the prettiest all-ceramic, Lucite-reinforced feldspathic ceramic ever.
Well, I know Jed Archibald, when he was on here, he was singing the praises. Oh, yeah.
And my first Empress restoration, like I said, was in school, and John did it, and we were like, wow, this is something really special. And as they say, the rest is history. If I hadn't been introduced to that, and those partnerships with these great companies and their education. Who knows, I might have been the same as my classmates. I might have been selling neon signs or struggled. I've always been entrepreneurial. But yeah, I mean, so Elvis, I don't recall how old you are. I think you're kind of between this younger generation.
No, he's old.
Is he?
I just act young, that's all.
Well, that's the secret sauce right there. My wife always asks me why I'm so immature and I'm like, you know, you got to stay young.
Yeah.
Bingo.
No, and I hope that anybody who might be listening is not offended. When I say the younger generation, obviously, look what digital has done for us. It allows us to spend less time doing things that are so time-consuming, and now I can focus on the art. So I think it's really enabled and facilitated even greater aesthetic results by allowing us to spend the majority of our time on contour, surface texture, incisal embrasures, line angles, deflection zones, occlusion, et cetera, you know? incisal edge effects.
He's talking my language now, Elvis.
Yeah.
Move along, move along.
But anyway, so my role at Ivoclar, first thing, when I interviewed Dr. George Tasowski, who's my boss, and they brought me on four months before Jeff Smith retired. So my first day here was September 2nd. So we had continuity. And even though I had done the role, let's see, three times prior for three other companies, every company has its unique landscape. And to be honest, I'm still learning that here. But I work with some of the most amazing people. And John Isherwood enabled me to help plan Chicago. Unfortunately, I didn't get to go enjoy it and that, but I heard it was a great program.
Yes, it was.
It was packed. Every single speaker was packed. We were sitting right there.
It was awesome.
I think Yuki Mama, who's also a mentor, and I met him when I was studying with Aki Yoshida and Noritaki. Yuki was the, let's call him the right-hand man to Aki. And now fast forward, Yuki, I've known Yuki since 2003, 2004. And I met Aki in one of his first courses in Manhattan in 1996. It's crazy. so anyway, my passion, my responsibility is to make sure that we can pass those things that are practical and are prudent to still do, combined with these new materials, Mio, CeramArt, Adite has another liquid ceramic. There are many of them. But we established an educational curriculum through Dr. Shashi And he's been very supportive. And I think we have between 22 and 24 classes on the books starting May.
That's amazing.
Yeah, so we're teaching in three different facilities, Mississauga, Ontario, which is just outside of Toronto. the thriving metropolis of Amherst or Buffalo, New York. And then in the LA area, you've probably had Juan or Nelson Rigo on this program as well.
I love Nelson Rigo.
Yeah, that's our circle, right?
And he was my mentor.
Yeah. Me too. And I've known them only because I got the privilege to work for Microstar and Authentic. And I kept hearing this story about the Rigos. This could be a full day of conversation.
Oh, for sure.
I mean, don't you ever pinch yourself, you guys, because we, like there is no shortage of talent and great education.
It's the whole reason this podcast exists.
Yeah, no doubt about it.
There's so many great people that are willing to share.
Yeah, it is. And I think it's very necessary and it connects us all over the globe. And social media does that as well. But yeah, we designed this curriculum. We also teach in Santa Fe Springs in our academy that we call them academies. They're our facility for teaching there is adjacent to Juan and Nelson Rigo's lab. And they've been key opinion leaders and great friends. We've all shared clients together and there's plenty of pie to go around. And sometimes we even call each other and say, hey, I did this case. And and Dr. Wells or whoever the doctor is in Nashville doesn't quite like it. And so I suggest that maybe you guys give it a shot. And it's always been this really wonderful relationship. We did the same at Utah Valley, Juan and Nelson, where we just have this friendly, friendly, brotherly, sisterly kind of competition. And we're just pushing each other's skill sets and elevating things. And it's part of the fun. And when you get to this point in your career and you meet so many wonderful people, it's just rewarding. And you don't even talk about business anymore. And I learned business from the Rigos. There was this guy, too, back when I was in Libby, Montana, who was doing these amazing anterior crowns for that one doctor in Bigfork, Montana, Larry and Joe Clayton. They're long since retired, but I used to go and watch Dr. Clayton see these amazing anterior crowns on Fridays because he was good enough to let me learn. And it was like, who's the CMR dental lab? He's like, oh, they're over in Idaho. And after about the third case, I'm like, I got to find out who is this guy? And he said, his name's Matt and his lab's CMR. And I'm like, what does that stand for? And he's like, I don't know, but they're really good. And I'm like, yeah. I have no clue. And I reached out to Matt and I think everybody owes a ton to Matt.
Yeah.
And Lee, you know, I said I wouldn't leave anyone out. Brad Jones, Lee, Matt, so many. And, you know, just another blessing to learn from Matt and then to hire him as a KOL and a teacher and just to rub shoulders with these guys, you just feel great. because you were fortunate enough to be in the room with them and maybe absorb 1% each time. But that's why the education is so important to me.
Yep, great.
Kent, you sat here for the last hour and talked about all these greats that you've learned from. I think it's time to consider yourself a great. Because I think a lot of people, a giant. Did I say great giant? Yes, that you're a giant, man. We've had other people on this podcast mention you and learning from you and getting better because of you. And I mean, I love the fact that you're with Ivaclar and you're going to continue to do that because Ivaclar's got the material, man.
I mean, yeah, it's a really great set for me. Yeah. And my team here. So I was hired on my birthday. More or less. I knew that I was going to receive an offer. They flew me here the night before my birthday. I interviewed with 10 people on my birthday.
Yikes.
And when I interviewed with George, he said, do you have anything else going on? I said, well, I'm in a lab where I have a vested interest, have some partnership. And when I got here, I was doing it as a professional courtesy, but also out of respect to Jeff, who was the director of technical and digital before me. And the face of Ivoclar that I've known, besides Bob Ganley, was Dr. George Tasowski. And even though I didn't know him, I knew about him and I knew his integrity. And when I had my interview with him, he asked me, he goes, so what's your vision for your role? And I shared with him this very thing that I shared with you guys, which is, I wanted to go back to our roots. Not that Ivoclar had done anything wrong at all.
No.
Right. But I know that that was the value add that made all the difference in my career. And I can say the same thing of Jensen, and I can say the same thing of Nora Taki and authentic with Microstar and Zubler. Like those were four very key relationships. And I I worked for Darby Dental Lab Supply in there, which was bought by Zahn. And so those three positions were really one. We just changed labels from Darby to Zahn to Karari Noritaki. But yeah, you're kind to say I'm a giant, but all I really see myself is as a responsible, grateful student who has an obligation to share so many great things that were shared with me. That's really, if I can do that, then I feel like I maybe left a small ripple on the pond.
But that's what the Giants before you did too. You know, they learned and passed it on, man.
I appreciate it. It's really good company, you know.
Yeah, Kent, thank you so much, man. This is great. We love the story. I had no idea you did all this. And we are excited that you are with Ivoclar and will continue to do this.
Do anything, anytime. If anybody needs any help or assistance or has a tech question, I want to leave you with my e-mail address and feel free to shoot me an e-mail. I have obligations through the day, but somebody did it for me. And so my e-mail address are my initials KD, as in David, K, Smile. So KDK smile at gmail.com.
Hit them up.
And if I don't have the answer, what I, the second thing I'm really good at is finding the answer and pointing you in the right direction. So really, it was my pleasure. You guys asked some amazing questions. Made it so I wasn't so nervous. So thank you.
No, that was fun. Love it.
Thank you so much, sir.
My pleasure.
Even though we didn't see you in Chicago, we'll see you at the next show.
Yeah, I'll be at Lab Day West. My friends out there come out and let's say hi and reminisce, grab a drink, and enjoy some time together. So thanks again.
Oh, yeah. Thank you as well.
Thank you, sir.
My pleasure. Have a good weekend, guys.
Yeah.
Thank you. Bye.
A big thanks to Kent for coming on our podcast and sharing your journey. I do love that you give the credit to your success because of all the amazing people in our industry that took the time to show you their best so that you could pass it on and be your best. He is seriously a wealth of knowledge and always willing to help those that want to grow and get better. We cannot wait for sure to see what you will accomplish next with your new role at Ibaclar. Thank you, Ibaclar and Kent, you're amazing.
Awesome. Well, everybody, join us next week. We'll have a recap of Exocad Insights. But until then, we'll talk to you next week.
Cross the pond. Bye. I'm never going to let that down.
Oh, I'm not going to let you down. The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.