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Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email@infoooicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 395 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.

My name's Barbara.

Good, morning, Barbara. How are you?

I'm good. Welcome to Saturday. This is releasing on Monday, but we're, we're chatting on Saturday at 8:30 in the morning. I'm, doing.

Yeah. You surprise me with a. Hey, I'm up.

Yep.

You specifically said last night, not before nine.

I know I did.

You don't have any coffee in the house and you get up and somebody's got to go get coffee. You might as well do the intro.

So here we are.

Yeah, so you mentioned that to me. Who goes to bed without coffee prepared and ready to go in the morning?

I know. Not good.

Not good at all.

And it never happens. And it, Trust me, it's not good.

I'm in a pretty good mood too.

For no coffee yet. But.

Yeah, I don't think I could do it.

I don't think I could do it.

I said I could easily have brought it with me. Hello. You know, sometimes happens and this is one of those days.

I get it. It's like going to a hotel that doesn't have coffee in the room. It's like, what am I supposed to do? I'm just never going to get up then.

I mean, I know. I mean, if you're a coffee person. you totally agree.

I would say if we surveyed the dental lab industry.

Oh.

What do you think? 85, 95% coffee drinkers?

I'd say probably 98.

Energy drinks are pretty big these days too.

But, but if you're not doing coffee, you're doing bourbon, beer. You, Energy drinks, vodka, something, maybe not in the morning, of course.

Okay, good. Yeah. I was going to say. Yikes. Speaking of hotels.

Yep.

We are just three weeks away from Nox Dental Supplies Lab Fest in New Orleans. I know we've been talking a lot about it, but freaking A. I'm super excited. I. I think it's gonna be a great show. Thank you to the wonderful people at Adite North America. They are allowing, just me, because you decided to go on a cruise.

I know.

Allow me to set up all weekend, but something I'm really super excited for is I get to host Family Feud Lab Edition.

Yeah.

That's gonna be crazy cool.

It's gonna be great. So two teams. We're gonna pick out the people. And we've already asked pretty amazing and hilarious lab questions, all answered by lab techs. Just like the game show Family Feud. Just think of that. But with only lab related content. So this happens Friday afternoon and then later that same night is that 1920s themed boat party.

Are you dressing up for that?

Yes, I am.

All right.

But I'm trying to be unique, let me tell you. You type in. Yeah, I know, but you type in 1920s men's costumes in Amazon and 40 people are going to be wearing the first thing that pops up.

Yeah.

So I'm trying to go a little outside the box, but good for you.

Take pictures.

We'll see what happens.

Yep, of course.

So all that and still a bunch of great speakers, a ton of vendors, and of course, the. The great attendees. Except Barb. That's going to show up. And of course, all that New Orleans charm. Head over to nolalabfest.com we're running out of time. Register. So this week we learn about a very interesting way to get additional business for your lab. So let's face it, you can either grow by getting new offices to send you work, or you can get more work out of your current offices. I mean, that's basically how it works.

Yep.

As we know, that's a little bit easier said than done. Lori Margata comes, from the clinical side. Starting part time in a clinical office, Lori worked her way all up the chain to run a lot of practices. And after putting labs and clinical together and some great conversations that she had at Vision 21, Laurie saw a way for labs to help practices grow and in turn, grow your lab. And it's all about unbooked treatments. Lori talks about her time as the office gatekeeper, teaching them that their lab bill should be their highest bill.

Nice.

Yes, ma'. Am. And what we can do to get more patients to say yes. So join us as we chat with Lori Margata. Voices from the Bench, the interview.

I like you already. You can stay, Elvis can go. we're good.

Bye. We'll call you whatever you want.

Lori is perfect.

Awesome. So we're super excited today because I met this lady back at Visions 21 and you're kind of talking about what you do and, and then we ran into each other again in Chicago and I learned more about what you did. And now finally, many, many, many months later. And I apologize. We. Welcome to the podcast. Lori. Margarita, Maria, Marzia, Margata.

you butchered it all. This, I'm not going to lie to you, you butchered it at Bethany.

That's what I do.

It's all good.

Well, Lori, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?

Very good. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. Tell us more about yourself. I mean, not what you're doing now, but how you ended up to what you're doing now.

Well, it's actually, I started in the dental industry over about 30 years ago.

So you are five years old. Kay, right.

Thank you, Elvis. I knew I liked you. I knew, I knew there was a connection. but yeah, I started as the recall girl and haven't left the industry since.

What's the recall girl?

What's what is the recall girl is just a part time high school job and they just made me call patients that were due for cleanings.

yeah, but how did you get into that?

That's what was called, the recall girl. I was just a part time job down the street from my high school school. A friend of mine was working at the office and then it led to full time position. I guess I, I guess I fell in love with the industry. I became a full time receptionist and then office manager and then, you know, you know I, I always say this. I worked for maybe some not very nice dentists at the time. And it led me to, and I said I will never work for someone again. And then I opened. Well, I actually, I actually ventured off. Funny enough. I said I wanted to get out of the office, environment and I went into sales and funny, it was a lab, hardest sell ever. And it's ironic how how everything went, you know, full circle now. But that didn't last very long. I feel, you know, dental lab sales was the hardest. Oh yeah, right. and then I opened up Bookkeeper for Dentists where I kind of merged the two worlds. It's practice management reports. I was able to take all My management skills, with bookkeeping, and we have bookkeeper for dentists.

So because this is a dental lab podcast, I want to hear more about your experience doing sales, with this lab. Barb, you're gonna have to mute when you're not talking. Your car is very loud.

Really?

Yeah.

Sorry.

Hold on. He's so demanding, Barb.

Sorry.

Yeah, I know.

So tell me about the sales position at the lab.

So, well, that was. That was 14 years ago.

Okay.

And I, again, I. I obviously made, you know, I was, in a good kind of relationship with the. The lab technician who would come in, and I asked him at that point if they were hiring, and I went to do sales. And obviously, sales is just to bring in new clients. At that point. This was, again, whole new world. but even back then, I knew, wow, this is the hardest sell ever. Because, again, I wasn't up against quality or service. It was against relationships. Right, That's. That's what it was.

Down to 100.

Yeah.

yep.

And. And. And that's where I, you know, even now, again, I. I worked in the office for so many years. I was the gatekeeper. Nobody was getting through to the dentist through us.

Oh, I hated people like you.

We were awful. Every time a sales rep came in, I'm like, yeah. They're like, do. Should we leave something? I'm like, if you want, but it's like it was going in the garbage anyways. Like.

But did the dentist be like, hey, I want you to be the gatekeeper, and if anybody comes in there, nada. or is that just you protecting your dentist?

It was. And that's why I say we're gatekeepers, because unless they had a, warm referral or someone, they. They weren't usually getting past us. Right. So, again, I already knew that. So even going into offices, cold calling. Because at that point 14 years ago, it was cold calling. I was walking into offices. You know, it was, It was different to be on the other end, let's say. Wasn't very. Wasn't very welcoming.

It's hard.

Yeah, it was.

Oh, yeah. Not welcoming at all, for sure.

Not at all. Not at all. But, you know, the. The other part is actually what I learned from it on the other side was, wow. I said, you know, some of these dentists really had to know who their front desk people were because they. They didn't know if I was a sales rep and. Or a, new patient. And m. We. We had some really good different reactions, you know, who ignored, who didn't Even put their head up. And I thought, I would like to have a chat with these dentists regardless. Never mind. Yes. About joining our lab. I would just kind of chit chat to say, hey, you better really think of who you have at your front desk.

There's some really bad ones out there. I'm not gonna lie. I mean, it's like, if you're this cold to me, can you imagine how.

They are to the patients?

Oh.

Or they're really nice to the patients and they're just sh. Tty to us.

Even if they think I'm a patient when I walk in, because this happens quite often. I'll walk in, they'll be like, name. And you're like, Elvis. Yeah. They're like, you're not on the schedule. And I'm like, I'm not supposed to be on the schedule. And I'm like, why are you so rude? Right.

No, again, some people are just not meant to be at front desk, you know, so. But yeah, again, it was. I. I couldn't even. Even if I wanted to try to sell their services. And, you know, let's. Obviously we tried that, right? But they had to be like, on their A game. This lab had to be on their A game. Like, you know, as far as, you know, quality and, and service and.

Oh, sure.

Yeah. So. Because. Or else they don't even look. They. They, you know, I. And that's where, again, full circle, where we are today. When I went to Vision 21, it was like, how do you guys try to get new clients? When I was. When I was at the round table, I was like, what? They're like, yeah, we try to get new clients. That's how, you know, because I asked, you know, how do you build your business? Right. As a lab? Right. The main two were we want new clients. Okay. To me, that was the hardest. And I knew for sure, for both reasons, because I was. I was the gatekeeper. And then I tried sales. And then the other one was, well, we want our existing clients to be full service clients, you know?

Yeah. You want to get everything from them.

That was a hard one too, because I've yet to. Even with all my clients in the 30 years, every dental office I worked for and all my clients, they all use at least three to five labs. It's. It hasn't changed in 30 years. Right. So.

Well, let me ask you, why is that? Is it because they really value each lab skill, or is it because they owe money to three to five different labs?

No, my clients, I Make sure I pay their bills, always on time.

Just want to stress that we appreciate that.

Right. no, I think it's, I think it's obviously for different services and then again, they've built relationships. So, you know, I think a lab has to really f up, you know, has to really F up for them to, to drop, their existing relationships because again, it's, it's the, they're not dropping the services, they're dropping the relationship.

Yeah. But I also say that that's how I get new clients. Is another lab effed up.

Right.

It's all about time.

And it's true. They really have to, they really do have to f up, to, to kind of drop it completely. And you know, and I think bad, because I think people, you know, have some compassion to understand that things do happen. But, yeah, so that, you know, it was interesting at the round table because again, I don't come from the lab world. So, you know, I thought, okay, Laura, you just sit there quietly and listen to, listen to the people and learn the industry. And then I was like, oh, you need to pipe up here a little bit this conversation because like, they're missing something here. Like, you know, and, and that's when I, when I think we chatted where, you know, for me it was, there's, there was another way for everyone to kind of grow. Right? That's, that's the ideal, right? If, if, you know, the, the lab wants to grow, the dentist has to grow. It has to be a win, win across the board. Yeah. And, you know, hence the reason why, you know, I wanted to chat today. Is it, the case acceptance? It's case acceptance. Right. And I look at this number all the time. This is what I do in my business, right. We, we want to kind of flag problems in the office, if there are, and address them. And to me this was like, you know, a no brainer. And it's, it's that simple. But for dentists, you know, they're so busy in the chair that, you know, they don't get, a lot of them don't get a chance to understand the business side of it. It's very intimidating. It's overwhelming. It's, it's a lot, and a lot of them think that it takes so much energy to kind of like find out. And, and that's where I came. You know, I'm like, it's so easy to help, you know, you know, labs can help the dentists, you know, find out where they can grow their Case acceptance if they have a case acceptance problem.

So how do you. How do you merge the gap between the dentists and the lab?

So what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean as far as case, like, growing them? Is that.

Yeah. So how do you, like, tell me about what you do?

Okay, so, well, with the labs, like, there's other numbers I look at, but one in particular that, you know, obviously flagged me at. Ah, you know, vision 21 was case acceptance. So my. My theory was, okay, if every dental office, let's say is the fact is, you know, they're using three to five different labs and they have low case acceptance, regardless of how the dentist does this, if they increase their case acceptance, everyone wins. Right? All the three, three to five laps. So it doesn't really matter if you're in that. If you're in that category, then if their case accepting goes up, then yours goes up and. Yes, along with everyone else. So it's a win. Win. The lab grows, the dentist grows, the dentist is happy. As long as they're growing, they're happy.

Oh, yeah, we know that for sure.

Right. And. And, you know, and it's easy. So, you know, what we do is, what I do with my clients is we plug in two numbers, very basic, and then, you know, I can give you guys a link where they can, you know, anyone listening can send this to their clients. You just get your overall production, right? let's say, you know, for last month, their overall billings for the whole practice. Then get their lab billings, divide the two, you come up with a percentage. Right. So industry average is about 8 to 10%. Right. And that's like a strong restorative office.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yep.

Yeah, but the thing is, what dentists don't realize is when they see that high they're in, their mind is like, oh, it's eating my profit. Right. Like, they. They just automatically go to, you know, oh, it's a high expense, but it's actually the opposite. Right. So you. This the only. I always tell them the only expense you want high is your lab bill. You want this in the higher zone.

Yep.

Because that means you're doing more treatment. Yeah.

Thank you.

Right.

By the way.

But the, you know, that. And that's why it's so easy. So if, you know, my thing was, well, if we make the dentist learn this one simple number. So. And if you see four and under, that's a red flag. Like, that is instant. You need to, you know, really look at your Treatment planning, your case acceptance, and how easy is that number? Like, click, click, and you're done. Like, you know, it's like literally a minute for them to look at. So that's where I thought. I think you guys really need to kind of, you know, you guys have the relationship. The lab technicians have this trusting relationship. You know, I, out of all the sales reps, that or any people that dentists are dealing with, I feel, and I, you know, to this day, they have the best and trust most trusting relationship with their technicians. So I think, why would they, why would you not want to tell them, right? It's that easy. Because most of them, they really don't know. Like, it's, it's sad, but they really don't know what the numbers mean. And this is so simple because that's your overall practice. If your case acceptance is low, you have some serious, you know, issues, system inefficiencies happening in the practice. so that's where again, you know, you'll see and I'll give you guys the link and whoever's interested. But know, I did an Excel spreadsheet that people can just kind of, you know, download for free and then just like, a one pager to explain this. Where it's that easy. Hey, whatever labs you want, I am offering like that webinar where they can invite their dentists for me to teach them. And it's free. But it just, again, why would we not do this, right? Why would we not teach them this simple number And. Because I see, like, I was chatting with a lot of lab owners at, vision 21, and, and you guys spend a lot of money on marketing and you, you have the potential to grow for like, nothing practically, right? Just. Just a conversation. It's just a simple conversation. And the dentists, you know, I've seen them, I've seen it. As soon as the dentist understands this, the numbers shift and they start working on it. And it's simple, you know. And another question that was my kind of like my one simple question. What's your lab expense at? But the other thing is just tell your clients for, just for fun, you know, just kind of for fun. They're going to cry that night. But just for fun, they will, just for fun, print out an unbooked treatment list. Just, you know, and they're, they're like floored. Like there's like hundreds of thousands probably. Like I, I did one client, I swear to God, she had $5 million in an outstanding treatment. And again, I Said okay, even. Oh my God, really? Yeah, it was, it was, that was crazy.

Wow.

And, and even if it's wrong, like let's say it is wrong and maybe there's half of it, it's still 2.5 million, then it's time to clean this up. Like if you have that inefficiencies in the practice that you have that much unbooked, you have some systems you need to kind, of address in the office. Right.

Let me see if I understand this. So a patient comes in and they need, I don't know, three crowns. So they submit that as a treatment. And you're saying that a percentage of these people don't accept the treatment. They're like, I don't want it, or they go somewhere else or whatever. And that is that lost treatment you're talking about. But you're saying as a lab, we can help them?

Them, yes. Well, flag, if they do have an issue first. If they do, you know, and that's where the, the red flag, the 4 percenter or below comes into play. The other thing is not necessarily what I'm finding and I've been in the field for long enough. But yeah, it's not that they're saying no, it's that there's no follow up. The, they've sent it, the, you know, patient was there and they've sent it out to the insurance company and then it's just kind of left. There's no follow up. That's one, there's no options, you know, is there financial options? Any discussions? so the main thing is follow up, you know.

Sure.

Say this. Everything, everything in any business or even in life, when you work on something, you see the results. You know, it's just, it's proven right. When you put effort in anything you do. And I always say that the numbers never lie. I always say proof is in the pudding. I can tell when my teams are working on something because the numbers automatically shift. And when they see that number, and that's proof on its own, when they see that number and they go through that unbooked treatment and again, we live in a click, click world. Right. It's so easy. They just have to, you know, do this at night and they have to see that last page, you know, I just say just look at that last page of, you know, the amount of unbooked treatment and then tackle it, you know, and it's not that difficult, you know, it's just kind of getting it done.

So, so when they see that, do they want to treat it.

Of course. Who? The patient, the, the doctor.

Hey. Oh my God. Like there's all this money left on the table.

Yes, but the thing is, most dentists unfortunately don't know or don't understand. You know, this has been a constant. Some dentists get involved, but a lot of them don't know the business side of it.

Right.

So it's just based on whatever their team is telling me. Oh, you know, no, you know, we're good. You know, we're fully booked. Or they look at the schedule and they think, okay, well we're booked out the next two, three weeks and I'm happy. And then, you know, that list tends to accumulate, right?

Oh, yeah.

And, as I said, the list doesn't lie. And if it is not accurate, then fix it. Because even regardless, you know, this is where my, my plug is for the dentist too. Like, even if, let's say they have their lab bill at 7%. Right. Still a good number, right?

Yep.

That's great. I still tell them, still print out that unbooked list because that's any patients unbooked. And even if it's for hygiene, maybe not, not necessarily, you know, major work, any like crowns and bridges and implants and all that. But we know hygiene feeds. Restorative. 75% of restorative. So it it'll be a win.

Yeah.

Regardless, for sure. You know, it's just constantly looking at something simple without, without it being overwhelming. I find that dentists are, it's very overwhelming. Like there's a lot of information out there now. It's so overwhelming. Consulting, you know, all this stuff and this is to me like, oh, it's, you know, I want to kind of simplify it for them to say, listen, you have all this unbooked work. I've yet to find one office that doesn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of, of of treatment that unfortunately it is. You know, we live in a different world, of work ethics nowadays. yeah, no doubt. I'm being nice. I'm being nice.

Yeah.

Work ethics have changed. We have to kind of implement systems where they are accountable, where we are. We have some follow up systems back in the day. You know, I remember I was 30 years ago. We lived breathe, breath for our bosses. It's changed, the dynamics have changed. So it, it's time to kind of go with the work ethics and kind of make it work. Everyone's got a win here. So it, you know, simple, simple. we teach them it's free. It's costs no one, you know, anything and everybody wins. Right. Because why would any lab not want the dentist to do that, whether they're using three to five labs? Because regardless, it's gonna, it's gonna, you know, you know, grow everyone's, profit at this point.

I also see a large issue of when clinicians describe treatment, what a patient needs, they don't do a really good job at it. And it's all about the dollar value. Does that make sense where they're like, you need this done and it's this much without going through all the possibilities that they could do and, and the benefits of each step?

Well, that's, I guess, case presentation. Right.

So how can I help my offices do better case presentations? Because I want to do six over dentures to every one denture that I do.

Right.

You know?

You know, so for, let's, Well, a, let's just flag that they do have an issue, first of all, we'll just kind of take it to that because that's the, the door opener for the dentist.

Yeah.

Find out that they do have an issue, a low case acceptance issue, because they may not even think they have a problem. And then when they see that number, then we can address it and that actually we can chat about that. But that's one of the reasons why I'm offering that free webinar, is then I'm going to offer them solutions. Now what? Okay, so what are your options? I know I'm going to have different views on dentists that do not want to spend another penny on this. And then we are going to have a solution how they can tackle it. Another, solution, you know, is it com. Do they not have the intro or cameras? And if they don't, then that's something that, you know, is a given. So who's presenting it? We'd have that discussion. Is someone, you know, presenting the case presentation, showing them pictures, showing them their options. And that's what it comes down to. And we know there's a shortage of staff everywhere.

Sure.

Letting them realize if they have a problem, if they don't think they have a problem, then who wants to fix something that they don't think is broken? But once they see the potential there. And again, just for fun, like one of your best clients, just, just ask them, just, you know, hey, do me a favor. Just give me that, you know, that last page. You don't have to, you know, cross out all your patients. Just show me what that last page is. And of, Unbooked treatment. And then again, then, trust me, they'll. They'll see that. Because even if they were to book half of that, you can give them whatever tools, they'll buy whatever tools they need to kind of book that treatment in. So, for, for the lab, this is, I think, just the door opener to let them present that they have a problem. And then, Elvis, you want that over denture, you're gonna have to sell yourself and go into the office and talk to the patient. I'm kidding.

No, I've done that, honestly, and I'm happy to do that. I just think they're missing out on selling the better treatment.

So when you, when you say that you go in there, can I ask you a question then? What do you do as a lab? My brain, like my mind is just going, so what do you present to that patient? You speak directly to that particular patient. Why wouldn't you create, let's say, a video presentation? That then maybe if their staff is not confident on case presentation, because that's, you know, some offices, you know, send their staff for training to do this proper case presentation, and some don't. Right? So why wouldn't you, let's say, I'm thinking, why wouldn't you give them maybe a solution and do your presentation, do a recording yourself and then say, hey, listen, if any patient needs this, whoever your staff is that's sending this estimate, send this to the patient, here's a video. Make them understand it. It's coming from you personally. It's a personal touch. This is our lab that we use. And, you know, there's that personal touch from you directly and somebody we trust. And, you know, I would do that because technically, you know, realistically, are you going to go into every patient chances?

No, I don't sell treatment to patients. Don't let me misrepresent myself. It's, it's. I go in there and I'm working with a clinician on a patient, and the idea comes up. I mean, let's just be honest, most of it's dentures. And I talk about implants, and then the doctor talks about implants a little bit, and they're always like, I mean, it works better, but it's thousands of more dollars. And I'm always like, like, I wouldn't lead with that, you know, and some of this has turned into me sitting down with office staff and explaining to them, you know, the, the chewing capacity, the better lifestyle, the more confidence, blah, blah, blah. That's what you should be selling, rather than just a more expensive denture. But I like the idea of making a video. That's an interesting idea.

That's where it comes into play, where it, it's staff training. It's a, it's a staffing issue kind of.

Yeah.

who is, who's trained and who's qualified, who's confident? People. You know, I remember when I was, you know, first starting out, you know, and it, felt like I was selling like, oh my God, I'm selling, you know, like they want me to sell like it was, it was. And meanwhile, it's like, it's treatment. They need this treatment. You know, as, you know, you get more seasoned into it. So it's that confidence that, you know, they're not confident Chinese to do this case presentation and a lot of officers are like that. We see the staff turnover. As soon as they train somebody, they're out the door too. So it's kind of like they, and, and dentists are tired of that too. Like every time they train a staff member, you know, we're going to give them that training, we're going to invest in them and then, you know, they leave. Not always, but it's, it's more and more common now.

Absolutely.

Maybe creating a video, where they can send that or, you know, any staff is not comfortable, then you do it on their behalf and they like free. So if it's free, it's.

Yeah, for sure.

Right. So that, that was just an idea that I, I thought they can, you know, you can do that. But that, that, that's where this, I want to give them tools because it, it's giving the dentist options and who wants to increase case acceptance with, you know, spending some money, who's not, you know, it could still be done without spending, spending money on, they just need to know again, there's a problem in the office if they do have low case acceptance and then address it. Because for you as a lab, what other way can you grow? Was I wrong that, you know, what they taught me at, you know, what I Learned at Vision 21, was it those two ways. New clients and then, you know, getting your, getting your existing clients to be full service clients. Is there another way that. How else would you grow?

It's either more work or more expensive work.

More expensive work, yeah.

So, you know, instead of getting a, bunch of single units, you get a bunch of full arch cases that you get to bill out more as.

You know, representing the dental office on from the other side, I would have that conversation because I do find that actually when I was working in the office, the lab world doesn't really connect with the staff. I'm working on something to bridge a little bit, bridge that gap a little bit. But, that would be an idea where m. Instead of, you know, the technicians or the, the lab owners, dealing strictly with the dentist, obviously, because it's obviously technical stuff. Maybe get more of a relationship with the office manager or the team and then kind of open up that world to say, oh, you know, how do you guys do this? Like, when a patient needs treatment, you know, how do you present it? What tools do you have? And then ask them like, what you know, and they'll say, oh, you know, we don't have an intro or camera or, we don't have any videos. And then maybe you can explore that and be their partner. You know, that's what I, I've been trying to stress is they're happy when you care about their business, right? When you make it about their business as opposed to just the lab. Because that's just the world we live in, right? It has to be about me. And that's, you know, so you, you know, I find, I think if you make it about them, it's. And you can help them grow. I think that would be a good approach because. Do you, I'm, going to ask you both, do you have. I know all my years experience, but do you have relationships with the staff, whether it's the assistant or the treatment corner? I would say more admin because they're, they're talking finances. it's not the assistants. it's usually the admin department.

I think it might find this funny, but I have more of a relationship with the doctors. I call and I let them know, like, I'm dealing with this patient and I give my cell number and they call me and we go over it. I think it's easier if the technician is one on one with the doctor. But I also do love the staff and I think it's important that they know I give myself always. I'm like, anybody has a question, call me.

But Barb, can I ask you, is it a technical question that you are. So this is where I'm trying to get at. So, I'm assuming you're talking about a technical question.

God, I get text for labels for ups, I get text for pictures, I get texts for rx's, I get text for where's my case? And so I think it's just technician being available to the office. To be able to answer whatever question they need. So I,

I don't know.

I. I think for me, I give out my cell phone like I give out, you know, money. Or I should say money. I shouldn't say.

Only the foundation of us.

But yes, of course, I'm always like, hey, call me. And I'm not sure that all labs do that, but I think it's important to have a key point person, whether it's a technician or an admin person. But I think I'm all of the above at this point.

But most of it comes from dentists, right?

Yeah, Right. But I'm trying to shift it because I feel that the communication that you're having, Barbara, you're explaining is more all about technical or deliveries or about a particular patient.

Yeah.

You know, in general, like, an already existing patient that's in treatment, let's say.

Yeah.

What I was referring, Elvis, was more in a sense where. Well, what about the. The ones that are not booked, the ones that need the case, you know, case presentation. Yeah. Maybe have that discussion with the team and say, hey, you know what? Who does treatment planning in the practice? You know, Dr. Smith, you know, who does treatment planning? You know, can I have a chat with them or maybe do, you know, a meeting with them and come by the office and then ask them. So, you know, are you comfortable with presenting treatment if they send, you know, dentures just to your lab or, you know, that's your. That's your thing, and just say, you know, tell me how you would present, a patient that needs this, and maybe you can do some training, you know, and. Or offer them the tools or free tools. Because again, the. What I'm. The communication is all technical, and at this point, the patient is already in treatment. Elvis, you're saying you want to get patients to choose the better option, the more expensive option.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Right. But then. But if they don't know what the benefits are, how is the stuff. The middle person's missing here, it's not the dentist explaining the fees and, you know, that to the patients, because they never have that conversation, just so you know, it's the staff. So maybe your communication should go to the staff, because that's where the problem lays. If the staff is not following up and presenting it. These patients, you think they're running. They're not running to the office. That's why I tell my team for sure, you know, even if you send. Oh, but they say to me, but I sent the estimate and I'm like, and even if they get the response, do you think they're running to the office? They are not. So you need to follow up regardless whether the response comes to you or directly to the patient. But, you know, they tell me, M. But it went to the. To the patient themselves. And I said a, they probably don't even understand what it means when they receive the response from the insurance companies. Two, again, no one's knocking at the door of the dental office. So. And that's the answers that we get. So, you know, there's some miscommunication here. There's like a disconnect with patients treatment. And what they also don't realize, the staff is you're ethically responsible to follow up. Like, you have to follow up with these patients on their treatment, necessary treatment, because I tell you, if that tooth breaks and you did it, they're done. That doctor is in trouble. Yeah. You didn't call me, you didn't follow up. You said you were going to send the estimate and you didn't follow up. So, you know, it. It's how we position it with the team, to make them follow up. I don't care how, but they have to just. They have to follow up and be accountable, you know, and again, that. Keep that easy number as just starting point. You know, I always say, let's just make it simple to start it. What's it at? You know, just find out what's your case acceptance at. You can look up all of last year and then get an idea and then go month to month.

What do you see the case acceptance? Like, what's normal? Like when a doctor does a, treatment plan. How, is it low? Is it high? Like, what is your opinion of case acceptance?

Well, that's what I'm saying. It varies from office to office. And that's where they.

So they got to get better at it.

Right. They plug in these two numbers and that's what my mission was after Vision 21 is like, these dentists need to know. It's that easy to see the case acceptance because, you know, if they ask their front desk, oh, how's my case acceptance? They'll say, oh, you know, I spoke to this person, treatment planning. And they're. It's over. It's too much information. Yeah. If they see, well, while my lab expense. And again, the confusion is they think if their lab expense is high, oh, my lab must be so expensive. You know, I. Maybe I'll have to look somewhere else because of course I think I have to Change.

Oh, yeah, please.

We're not, we're not going there. It's, it's, you know, education. We want to educate them to say, this is the only expense you want high. This is a good, healthy number. We want. This is the number we want high. And your profit, obviously, but the. As far as the expense, but. And once they understand it, it's an easy, easy number to manage. And again, we want them. So again, anything under four is a red flag. Five to seven is, you know, good, good, you know, treatment. Yeah, right. And then 8 to 10 are heavy, restorative, heavy implant offices. Like those are the strong ones. And again, we want them to be, be successful because if they're growing, you know, if their production grows, your, you know, the lab grows. and that's, to me was an, such an easy solution on how everyone can grow their business because, you know, how fast, how long does it take for a lab to gain a new client? And you know, realistically, how many, you know, maybe you guys can answer this question because I'm learning too, you know, how many of your existing clients are a full service client? Like, is it, you know, what's that percentage?

That's a great point.

I don't know the exact number, but great point though.

Yeah.

I don't think very many cross into different programs, products. I think they have their denture lab, they have their fix lab, they have their, you know, ortho lab. And I don't think they really cross in. In the same lab very often.

Agree.

Yeah. And. And, you know, you know, I always say, like, this is like a, A pilot. You know, you can use it as a pilot project in a sense where, you know, get one of your offices, you know, Elvis, or your office, and just try this and, you know, teach them this number and, and then kind of, you know, give them the tools to learn how to increase case acceptance and monitor if they're, you know, going to want to disclose this information to you and monitor if they get that number up. You know, did your number go up as a lab, like, just to, you know, out of curiosity, say, hey, you want to work? Do this, you know, kind of test with me. Let's do this right. Let's book. You're all, you're on book treatment. Let's flag where you are. If you're at the 4%, let's monitor it. I'm going to help you, Elvis. You are, you know, you can say that, you know, I'm going to kind of help you do this. And again, we'll we'll chat later. But, you know, I offer that webinar and then, you know, let's monitor it and see. Well, after we've given you some tools and solutions and the videos, Elvis, if you want to do those or. And then see, did their number go up? Did it go to the 5 to 7? And did yours as a lab. Right.

If there's, If there's. Does mine better?

Exactly. You're going to tell me. Lori, you definitely. No, you know what? Honestly, I. Proof is in the pudding. I use this. I've worked on it. It does work. When the staff is working on it, the numbers always shift. I kid you not. Like, it's just, it's. And it's not about it. Very rarely about patients saying no. It's just met. actually, he's going to be part of my webinar too. Samir from CareCredit.

That.

Yeah, yeah. Like, it's peanuts. And I'm like, you know, actually went to. I went to see on the beach a couple, months, ago, and we were chatting and I'm like, let me understand. Because we don't have CareCredit in Canada. Right. And. And he's like, Lori, it's simple. Because I'm like, all you have to do is ask, you know, just ask a simple question. Like, it's 10%. I think they take 10%. Like, and if you have an unbooked list of a million dollars, 900,000 sounds pretty nice. Hell yeah. Right? And up front, with no headaches, 900,000 is worth every penny of. not like, no. I said nothing else. Right? He said no. And he goes, that's. I'm m. Like, he's like, it's literally simple. And I thought, so he's actually one of these solutions I'm bringing on board with the webinar that I'm presenting because. And he says, valori, people have it, but sometimes they just don't use it. But again, with the procedure, proper, knowledge and information about it. Who wouldn't want that 10%. That's.

That is so true.

Every. Every penny. You're going to pay that in staff chasing your patients for this money for sure. Right. So again, it's presenting easy solutions that make sense, you know. And then I'm actually working with Dr. rice also.

Oh, yeah, we like him. Yeah, he's cool.

He is so awesome. So I'm actually. I reached out to him because I want to give them solutions, those who want to invest in their office. And I know Ignite DDS has this really good 90 day jumpstart program and to give them the solutions that if we're going to make you flag this and if you have an issue, then I you know, we're prepared to kind of give you some solutions. So again, the financial solution would be, you know, with Samir the carecredit. Right?

Yep.

That's an easy. And you have all these options and I, you know, I know their numbers will shift if they just. They have to recognize they have a problem. Most dentists and practice owners are so busy on the chair that they don't even know they have a problem. They, you know, that was one thing I realized when I started doing bookkeeping. When you're in the office you just look at production and payments, right? M. production payments. Oh, we're like super busy and jam packed. I must be successful, right. I must be doing well. Right. And you just don't see the unseen stuff, the un, unbooked treatment and what the potential could be. You know, they can grow their practice so much more. That office that I told you about, the one that I swear, that five million dollar practice.

Yeah.

when I started with them, they were below a hundred thousand a month production. they're at, they're over 300,000amonth now.

So do you get in there and look at their books and like give them advice on what they should and should not do and just like, like, do you spend like two, three, four months with them?

I do. So for my clients, what I do is initially, I do like training and you know, I go in, I make them understand the numbers I look at. Because it's not obviously only the lab, the lab expenses I look at, I look at their payroll. I could, you know, these numbers flag to me if their payroll's high. Yeah, it's usually not. They're not overstocked. They're either under billing, you know, or they have a lot of downtime. So that's usually, you know, the factors involved. So you know, again, my focus and every dentist focus shouldn't be, well just you know, cut your expenses, right? Like you know, cut down. It's, it's increased production. It's easy. It'll offset everything, right. You increase your production, especially that, that. And that's why I'm stressing the lab expense because that's the easiest one to offset. You get that number in the, in its magic zone there, overhead just kind of shifts because that will just kind of offset all their other expenses. Right. So and, and again it's just a matter of teaching them. And, you know, and I, you know, do as much as I can as far as free knowledge. Right. Because a lot of dentists don't want to pay and go take a course for six months. And it. And it's not that complicated. I'm, I'm a little old school as much as I'm, you know, I started when I was five, but, I'm a little old where, you know, I don't want to take it back to basics, especially for the offices that are struggling. It's like, it's not. It's not that. That overwhelming. And the world of putting, it in your office manager's hands again shifted over decades. And, not to say a lot of them, you know, are wonderful. I know so many of them. But that world is different where the dentist just did, you know, dentistry and the office manager ran the office. The dentists have to be involved now. They have to understand. When I do my training, I said, listen, the deal is you need to understand these. Because if your staff can tell you anything and everything and you believe them and you don't understand it, you're up for a rude awakening one day.

Yeah, sure.

Because you want to be the one that knows, and you want to be the one that's in the know. If your staff knows, they have to know.

It's their business. Nobody cares as much. Nobody. Nobody cares. Again, we live in a different world. The care, you know, the care is not like it used to be. And, you know, I. I'm sad when I say that because it's.

It is sad when you say that.

It is a great industry. We have an awesome industry. And, And I try to really pump these, you know, staff members up to say, listen, we're very fortunate. We have a great industry. you know, when times are tough, you know, you can find 80 hours a week if you want to, you know, like, you don't have to worry about, job security in the dent. Again, it's just a matter of talking and, you know, having the conversation with your clients. And again, for me, the labs have the best relationships with the dentist. you know, and they'll listen to you. You guys are the door openers for that, because they will listen to you. They. Everyone else they think is trying to sell them. I feel like, you know, they have this. Their guard up again, like the gatekeeper. But, you know, dentists have this guard up because they're constantly being bombarded with people and people right. You know, you guys are in like a great seat that you have that, oh, you know, that open communication with them, that relationship, that trusting relationship that, yes, again, they really have to like, you know, you really have to do them, do them really dirty for them to leave you.

So I don't disagree. I think that's a really great point. I think once you find a loyal client and you take them where they need to go and you educate them and you help them, they're forever going to be loyal. Unless you really eff something up pretty bad and they get pissed at you and they leave or they get bought out or they go for a lower priced option like they'll be with you for years and years and years. I think that's a very true statement for you to say.

I mean, I have a dentist that wants to meet with me to talk about buying a printer. I don't sell printers. I'm not going to make any money off this printer. But yet he values my experience of working with them and my knowledge. And I'm happy to do it because I've learned that them getting a printer or a mill really doesn't hurt.

Yeah, it's not going to hurt your business to help them.

It really doesn't. Yeah, I used to think it did, but it does.

Yeah.

M. It really comes down to the trust they have with their dental labs, their dental technicians, whoever that person is. Because if they're trusting you to, you know, bring the work to life and, and for their patient's mouth, that's a representation, right? That's where, you know, you guys have this upper hand where so, you know, in my eyes, on the outside again, I, I'm, I'm looking from the other side of this something. It is so easy. And it's, for me now, it always has to be a win win. If it's not a win win, you know, it just, it never ends well.

Yeah.

So, yeah, in this case, it's a win win because you're not pushing them to say, hey, send all your cases to me. Or like, you know, I remember speaking to one lab and he goes, yeah, I asked my clients what they spend with us and I said, well, that's why, because you're making it about you, right? You're making it about what they spend with you. If you make it about their practice and how they're doing and you know, and overall if they're doing well, you're going to do well. That's just, you know, just makes sense, right?

It totally, totally. And you give It a more positive spin.

Right, of course. And that's, you know, it's, that's how it should be. Right. So that's where this simple question, you know, I think you guys are. Ah, I, I don't, I don't see why any lab technician or any person in the lab would be uncomfortable to ask them that question. To say, hey, you know what, I was, you know, chatting with Lori or whatever, and say, you know, we, we were chatting about that. It's so easy to see if you're low, you have low case acceptance. Right? And then we teach them, you know, they want to know. Trust me, they're in the dark, unfortunately. And, you know, this way we can kind of open up that conversation. Elvis, you're going to see that maybe they don't even have a person doing case presentation. Oh, I bet. And that'll open up a whole new world. Yeah, it's really even that unbooked treatment. And I know dentists, obviously, I deal with their overhead. Right? I'm not saying put your office manager, if they print out a list of, let's say, unbooked treatment and we have this $1 million list, there's. Right. I'm not going to say, well, you know, get your highest paying, you know, office manager to review this list. Hire a part time high school university student, you know, flexible hours, just to start, you know, reviewing this list, what's real, what's not real, and then bring it to the person that can kind of, you know, follow up properly or with the proper tools. there's a system, right? So obviously my concern is cost. Obviously my, I, I want my clients to have, you know, good profit in the end, but those are little simple solutions and they're going to be floored when they print out this list top or about two or three, just, just for fun and see what they tell you.

I want to know that.

I bet you even if you just show them what they're missing without even a follow up, they'll do a better job presenting up, up front right away. Because I can see these dentists talking to these patients saying, this is what you need to do. This is the treatment. The patient's like, yeah, I think that's good. All right, go to the front desk, get it scheduled. They get to the front desk and they don't schedule it. And I bet you that doctor doesn't even realize the patient didn't schedule it. Are they coming back? Are they not coming back? I don't know. Weeks go by, he or she Forgets about it. That's the disconnect.

You nailed it, Elvis. That's exactly. There is a total disconnect.

So does all the software that they use to run their offices. Is this report easy to get or.

I, I mean it when I mean click, click. It's literally a, reporting unbooked treatment all providers and within seconds faster than chat GPT. No, I, I mean it and every software. And if they're using a software that doesn't, chances are they don't even, you know, using it in troll or camera. So chances are they're, you know. Actually I started. That's how I started. That's, that's how far back I started with the one right system. Just.

Wow.

The manual one write system, if either of you remember that.

No, no, but I got a couple offices that still have paper charts.

Well, yeah, paper charts, but no, this was everything ledgers. It was called the one bright system. And when I started, in my youngen days, you're gonna still keep and feel young and fabulous, right?

Well, let me ask you this. There's a lot of times where I'm in the back, like the lunchroom of these offices and they have a calendar up and they have how much they want to make per month, and then they eventually write in what they made that month. I look at that and I'm like, is that really motivation to the staff? I don't see it really working because like a. Once you hit that number, are you done? Or do they have the skills to reach that number? Do they just hope that they hit that number?

See, I look at it the other end, the dentist, you know, they can have whatever magic number they have. But if, you know, if 70 or 80% of that is one overhead, then it's. They're working harder, not smarter. So that's, that, that's one thing I would tell the dentist is that's where these numbers come into play, right? The expensive lab. And because they can have this magic number and where is it coming from? Right? What, what does that mean? Is it, you know, hygiene and then not the restorative is not being booked, how is the hygiene? Actually, that's one of the numbers that is important for dentists to look at is hygiene. If your hygiene is not growing and it's strictly based on, you know, a dental restorative, then, well, hygiene feeds your restorative. So, you know, there's so many different links. Those numbers to me are. They're not a drive and they better have some really good bonuses. If they are hitting those numbers, they obviously would increase them, I'm assuming. I've never. I've never seen the actual full number there.

Yeah, interesting.

But what. What do. Have you ever asked about again? I just ask what's. What's the worst. Say, hey, what's. What does this number mean? Like, where do you know what happens when you reach it? And then, you know, do you get a bonus? Or, you know, when do you grow that number? When does that. When does that shift?

I guess it depends on the office.

I think again, yeah, no, no, two offices. It works the same.

know your audience.

The tool issue, it's, There's so many things. Yeah, but I think you guys, like, honestly, that video would really help if you're finding that offices are struggling.

I think I know they are because we do so many dentures.

Do a survey. Do a survey. Say whoever is willing to ask, ask them what if they know their lab expense? And I'll give you the, you know, how they get to it. And and then start the conversation there.

Yeah, I want it.

I really. I. I'm, you know, because obviously I just, I did the webinar recently. I want some real, actual facts now. I want to, you know, really track the ones that are, you know, I know, for my clients. but I'd love to see. For a lab to really see how this can help grow their practice. This and, you know, with minimal costs. Elvis, this will cost a lab nothing. And, you know, comparable to the marketing, you know, they're. They're spending on getting new clients and the, you know, I don't want to, you know, downplay the sales. The sales people in, in the lab, world. But again, this is, this is great thing for sales. I have actually one lab I'm working with and, we're doing that. Yeah, we're doing a webinar. It's coming up, ah, next month. And he has, he said, like, this is going to be a model kind of test for us. And he has. It's a fairly big lab. And he has his, sales team really promoting, the webinar with me. And he. Yeah, and he. Because obviously the sales reps have the, relationships with their clients. And we're giving it a month. And he is on a mission to have every dentist obviously either attend the live webinar or watch it afterwards and then have each sales rep obviously follow through with their clients with the proper tools and see where they're at and track it. We're kind of, you know, doing this pilot project, let's say for a year, where he wants to see where this can take him. And I listen, I'm obviously you can tell I'm very confident about it because if someone is on them and, you know, being accountable and giving them the proper knowledge and tools, I am confident they'll see growth. Everyone, everyone will see growth. And that's, that's the whole point here.

I love this. I, It's a unique perspective. We haven't had this look at our growing the lab via helping the dentist with their treatment. Except I like it. I think it's an interesting concept. How can people find out more?

Thank you. well, they can go to my website, bookkeeperfordentist.com I actually have a link there that they can, you know, schedule me in for the free educational webinar. as I mentioned, I'm, I'm working on a, another project that's bridging the two worlds, kind of, you know, the dental lab world and the dentist together. So this is a new world to me. Dental lab world was new to me since Vision 21.

It's the greatest world ever.

You know what it is? I have to keep Elvis. I got to keep reminding myself, Lori. You are from the dental office world. Lori. No, but I, you know what? Actually, I had a friend that I have known for like 14 years. He's from the dental lab world. I think you know, Rob, I think we spoke about him, Rob Muir, and he's my like, industry expert for the lab world. He brought the whole lab world into me and this all came about and, and this is where again, this other project I'm working on, but it really, there's got it, there's a disconnect and, and I'm, I, and I'm kind of, you know, gonna bridge that. So. And this is a perfect way where it's a win win. At least it gives me an opportunity to meet lab owners, you know, work with them to together. So, yeah, if you go on my website, the free educational webinar, again, cost the lab nothing. You know, for me, I, I get to, you know, meet lab owners, meet dentists, and I hope to grow both of them, right? The dental office and lab. And you know, so that's why I, I genuinely mean win, win across the board. And and it works.

So I love it. Lori.

Oh, I'm glad you did. I knew that's why I said, elvis, we need to chat again. My work smarter, not harder, right?

I love it. I Love it. Unfortunately, Barb, can hear us, but she can't. We can't hear her, but, I don't know what happened. This is a weird connection.

So nice meeting you. Well, Elvis, are you. Any of you going to race? Race for the future?

Oh, of course. We're both in it. Yeah, I'm coming. Nice. Good. We'll see you then.

I am. I'm a sponsor. And then I'm coming again. Like, I think I'm probably walking, not running it, but we'll. We'll attempt the run, and, if not, we will maybe have a drink at the bar.

Nice. Yeah, we will, we'll see you in Texas then.

Yes, soon. Okay.

Awesome. Lori, thank you so much, so much. We appreciate it. And, I'm sure we'll stay connected.

I really appreciate it, too. Thank you, Elvis. And thanks, Barb.

Yeah.

Have a great weekend.

Thank you. That was Barb. All right. Bye.

Bye.

A, huge thanks to Lori for coming on our podcast to talk about something nobody else is really talking about. You and I talk to a lot of people. We haven't heard that yet. It's really simple, everybody. Dentists need to be busy for us to be busy. And if there's anything we can do to help, then why wouldn't we? We can send mailers all day, or you can go door to door trying to get work. But maybe, just maybe, it's time to help the offices that already send us work and trust us. Head over to bookkeeperfordentist.com to learn more and for a link to the mentioned webinar, on this episode, show notes. So I think she's got something going on here, Elvis.

It's pretty interesting, and I'm excited to see what some labs can do with it.

Yeah, good luck, guys. Try it.

All right, everybody, that's all we got for you. And of course, we'll talk to you next week.

Have a good one.

Bye.

Still weirds me out, man. The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench llc.