Don Bell, vice president of product marketing with ivaclar. com, discusses dental equipment Don Bell: Hello, voices from the bench community. I'm Don Bell, vice president of product marketing with ivaclar. If you're in the market for a new milling machine or one of our furnaces, I invite you to connect with one of our sales associates and explore the great deals and financing options now available. Our robust and dependable machines were designed to make your laboratory more efficient and profitable and are optimized for our ips, emacs, and prime zirconium materials. Our pm seven also allows you to do digital dentures with our game changing ivotian puck. So give us a call or log into ivaclar.com. wishing you much success as we close out 2024. Elvis: And always, ivaclar. We appreciate your support. Welcome to voices from the a dental Laboratory podcast. Send us an email at info voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Elvis: This whole area got hammered by Hurricane Irma Greetings, and welcome to episode 340 of. Barbara: Voices from the bench. Elvis: My name is Elvis. Barbara: And my name is Helene. Elvis: Helene, how are you? You're, You're kind of angry last week, Helene. yeah. Barbara: I'll tell you what, Elvis. I know you're going to ask about the hurricane, but I tell you, this whole area got hammered. There's just ex husband who just passed away, his home got flooded. We had to rip out all the floors yesterday. Today we're taking out all chunks of the drywall to stop the mold from growing. The whole neighborhood's nuke, the whole frickin area of the west coast of Florida. Pray for everybody. Man, this is a nightmare. Seriously. Elvis: Is it still flooded or has the water receded? Barbara: The water is receded. So basically everybody just throwing out everything they own, all their flooring, all their carpet, all their beds, and trying to save what's left of their houses. And, yeah, it's pretty crazy. Elvis: But other than flooding, was there a lot of, like, I mean, just wind damage? Was there a lot of roofs torn off? Barbara: Where we are was not a direct hit, but the storm surge was the worst part. But, I mean, if I walked outside my house, there was two trees down to my left crossing the road. So even with the wind we had, and we didn't have a lot interesting. It's just amazing, you know, what wind can do that's even like 40 miles an hour. Can you imagine the 140 miles an hour they got up north? Elvis: Not even. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: What's crazy to me is usually when you all have hurricanes, we see rain like three days later. Barbara: Right? Elvis: But this hurricane, I don't know if it was moving faster than normal, but it was even Friday night. We had some of the highest winds here in Indiana that I've ever seen. Barbara: Yep. Elvis: And a lot of rain. You know, you watch the radar and it's still circling and it's just nuts. Barbara: Yep. Elvis: Not to degrade what you're going through, but I have a lot of sticks I have to pick up. Barbara: Yeah. And it's not just this area. It was all the way north. You look at Atlanta and all those Asheville, they're all flooding. The rivers are crusty. And it's just like, just so many people, being affected by it. So, you know, those out there that don't, live in our area that aren't affected, just keep us in your prayers, because for sure, it's. It's hardcore. Elvis: I know a lot of people lost power, so I'm sure there's still some outlandish. Barbara: I know I've been a downer the last couple of weeks, but, man, I tell you, life's thrown us curveball, so. Barb and I are going to ids 2025 in Cologne, Germany All right, let's talk about something positive I know you want. Elvis: Absolutely. Yes. So we have some huge and exciting and big news that Barb and I, we are officially bump bump going to the ids 2025 show in Cologne, Germany. And we have amazing and good friends at Exocad to thank for that. Barbara: Thank you, Exocad. I mean, this has been a dream of ours. You and I have talked about this as long as we've been on the podcast, and I've been wanting to go to ids as long as I've been a dental technician. And it's just extremely amazing. And we are just so damn grateful to Exocad. They've been so good to us. Elvis: Absolutely. This is the same company that made it possible for Barb and I to record in Spain, and they offered us the same wonderful opportunity. So next March, we're gonna set up in their exocad booth. Well, maybe we should call it something else, since I hear they're much bigger than just booths and we get to record for four full days. Yeah. Day four. I'm gonna sound like this. Barbara: You're gonna be so happy. I don't have to record for three months after that. Elvis: Oh, it's gonna be wonderful. We're gonna have so much content. So we know we're still about six months out, and we have other shows before the ids, like Vision 21, that I'm excited for. LMT lab day, Chicago, of course. But as Barb said, this has always been a dream of ours. And to attend ids and not just to attend, but to be there recording all the amazing people that are gonna be there. Just to say we're excited. it's a little bit of an understatement. Barbara: Yeah. Let's say same time. Ready, set. Elvis: Thank you so much to exocad for making this happen. And of course, because we're six months out, we are sure to have many more updates as we get closer to this amazing event. Barbara: I gotta tell you, I remember when we talked about going to Mallorca and I was just like, it's a year away. It's like, I don't know, in my brain, I never really saw it. And then when we went how amazing it was and it's only six months away, like, oh, my God. Oh, yeah, it's gonna be here before we know it. Elvis: We're gonna blink and we're gonna be there. And, I'm gonna hope a lot of people speak English. So, you know, we thought that was gonna be an issue in Spain and it wasn't. So I think we're gonna be okay. Barbara: Oh, all the booths in ids. Everybody has cocktails after 05:00 it's like, what I've heard is it's just ridiculous. So, it should be fine. Elvis: I heard they don't even wait till 05:00. Barbara: All right, we'll see in six months. Elvis: Yes. This week we welcome back Don Bell from Ivaclar North America So this week we welcome back to the podcast Don Bell from Ivaclar North America. So this time Don comes back as the VP of product marketing and has a great perspective of what's going on in dental, both in the lab space and clinical. It's amazing how many topics we cover in this hour. Elvis: It's actually really hard to imagine that we actually covered this much. Barbara: We kick some butt. Just saying. Elvis: Yeah. Dawn talks about dentures, both the state of analog and digital, like their new partnership with Sprint Ray, the upcoming ivotian print. Super excited for that. the importance of digital treatment planning, some great lab trends that he sees in North America, how ivaclar values customer feedback, and honestly, why everyone waits until the end of the year to get a lot of their equipment. Barbara: Oh, yeah, true. Elvis: And that's just a few of the things we cover. We bring back past podcast guest Don Bell for an interview in November 2020 So join us as we chat with Dawn Bell. Voices from the bench. The interview. Barb and I are extremely excited because we bring back past podcast guest. Hey, Barb, you want to guess what episode number he was at? Barbara: 108. Elvis: Oh, not that old. 140 though. Still quite a while. That was pretty close. Yeah. November of 2020. So, Don Bell, welcome back. How are you, sir. Don Bell: I am doing very well. It's good to be back. It's been too long. A lot changed since the last. A lot has changed. Elvis: It's you, not us. Yeah, right. When your role expands, you just add, like, more hours into your day So, Don, I don't know, do you still have the same role at ivaclar or what are you doing these days? Don Bell: That's a really good question. So I think based on the last time I was here, I might have been very specific to vice president of product marketing for digital. that has now expanded to all products what we would call analog and digital. So maybe our traditional product portfolio of pressable materials, you know, metal, ceramics, carded teeth, etcetera, as well as our digital products that would fall under, like milling blocks. Elvis: Yeah. Don Bell: For labs or discs and new printable materials that we'll have coming out this year. So, yeah, it's expanded a bit into the current portfolio now. Barbara: Yeah. When your role expands like that, you just add, like, more hours into your day. Elvis: You gotta do everything faster, I think. Don Bell: that's funny. First of all, a lot of people experience this over the last five years where roles have probably gotten duplicated or expanded. That's probably the nice way to say it's an expansion of, your current responsibilities. I think you end up one. You get a really big picture of what's going on across everything, which does, I have to say, does help tremendously in maybe how we set strategy, situations, challenges we might have, because you start to see where things are not really in alignment. But from a day to day standpoint, you end up trying to really focus your time better on what's most important to focus on. That I want to get done in a current week or in a current month and a current quarter, and just make sure you're making strides toward those things because you can, you know, you yourselves, myself, we can all get consumed with meetings nonstop. Then you're just digging out of emails which are very reactive, as opposed to saying, hey, I'm looking at trying to get these things done over the course of a time period. So I think it forces you to be a little bit more disciplined and also recognize when you're falling behind and correcting. Course I do that I get frustrated. Like, if I'm not making headway on something I'm working on, I get frustrated. And then I have to kind of adjust my schedule to make sure that this is, I'm working on certain projects consistently. Barbara: Great answer. Elvis: What's the saying? Working in your business not on your business or working on your business not in your business. Or something where we spend all day doing the everyday things and never really stopping to work on what needs to get done. Don Bell: Yeah, I do actually think this was one of the dramatic changes we've seen since COVID and things. Things really turned in a different direction. I mean, I was a remote employee prior to 2020 and. Elvis: Yeah, you're mister Chicago, right? Don Bell: Yeah, I live in Chicago now. I've been out of Amherst now. December will be ten years. So I've been remote for ten years this December. And before COVID it was a different schedule. You know, I had meetings, for sure over the course of the day, but there were more gaps to either work on certain things or work on projects or outside customers or partners, whomever, or travel. And we got into this cadence during COVID of everybody we all met, you know, on teams slash zoom slash whatever the platform was every hour, like there was a meeting, you know, and you get it because no one was traveling. So you figure we want to make sure we're staying in touch, we're trying to make sure things are moving, but that hasn't really dramatically changed. And our schedules now are really packed with, to your point, it's like working on what's in front of you as opposed to, hey, I'm trying to get to there. How do I get to that point? I can't just answer emails. Like, that's not going to cut it. There are things we actually have to do to get to that point. I think it's been one of the biggest changes since 2020 that I'm sure for everybody. All of your guests probably run through this. Like, what's your schedule look like pre and post? Elvis: Well, would you say it's a change for the better? Don Bell: that's actually. That's a good question. I would say. I'd say in general, no. Elvis: Yeah. Don Bell: What it does do is it keeps you involved in. In activities that are going on across multiple areas. Like, we have a lot of different product categories that we engage in and sell in. Elvis: Oh, you guys have a ton, right? Don Bell: So you can get. It kind of keeps your fingers on what's going on on one hand, because there are things that we can. You can kind of cross sell or work together on or customer wise work with. But I will say from a day to day, week to week standpoint, your entire weeks could be consumed with meetings about, I need to get something done now or decision made now, as opposed to, you know, thinking ahead a little bit about what is the strategy or what strategies are in place to get us to where we want to go, what are we keeping? What are we dropping? How are we going to communicate it better, more effectively or differently? And I do think that's where you lose, when you lose that time to think bigger picture. And strategically, I think it's a negative. Barbara: Oh, yeah. Don Bell: I think everything becomes reactive. I noticed that. I mean, people, I think there's an expectation that, you know, if you guys or any of us get an email or a text, it's like, I want an answer now. I mean, that's. I think that's a general expectation that's happened. And, you know, if you do that all the time, you're never going to get anything done. Elvis: Yeah. Is your role a, uh, global role or only North America focus Barbara: So your role, I mean, you speak of a lot about leadership and handling people and solving problems. Is your role a, global role? Don Bell: It's only North America. North America focus. So I work locally here and I work in, in really close conjunction with our global business unit directors who manage the portfolios globally. And they work, obviously, we're a big market, so we have a lot of interaction with global teams on what's happening in our market. What do we see, what do we need, what's going on, what are we challenged with and developing the next product and the next product after that? Because as a bigger market, we have, I'd say two things. One, we're a big market, and two, I think especially in digital spaces, the market's been more aggressive here to move to the next thing. Whether it's application of implants, guided surgery, moving to different materials and processing technology, like, we move pretty fast and I think maybe set a direction. For other parts of the world. That's maybe a broad statement, but I think we experiment a lot here and try things and are willing to try it, realizing it might not be perfect, but it'll get fixed and move forward as opposed to it being perfect right out of the box. So, yeah, we have a lot of involvement globally that we translate here locally, vice versa, provide feedback on, hey, this is what we're running into. It's a challenge. These are challenges we have to address. How do we do it and in what timeline can we do it? Elvis: That's interesting to me because so much of our stuff in our industry, you always hear about it coming from Germany, Denmark, you know, european, not Denmark, something else. Germany, all sorts of different european countries. I don't know. I don't know where anything is. It's weird that you say that. We're the big push. Barbara: Yeah. Don Bell: that's, you know, the perspective I have of it is. I think many regions are more, will go a little bit, maybe more step by step. Like products can be developed anywhere. I mean, there's great technology being developed all over the globe. Elvis: Sure. Don Bell: And I think what ends up happening is our market. You know, my perception is our market is more apt to, hey, this is really interesting. We have an application for it. Let's figure out how to use it. And, that's just what I think we're as a, ah, maybe as a region, we're more open to bringing things in, implementing it, and trying to determine how it fits into a workflow that can benefit either a lab or a dentist. I think that's what I mean by that. It's not so much where the technology or the product is produced or developed, but I think our market is willing to try stuff and implement it and determine how to refine it, make it better, and then it seems to move other places. Elvis: I would agree that we're the good old give it a go type of situation. Just let's see how it turns out. Don Bell: Yeah. And I do think. I think there's a lot to that. I think there's a lot of benefit to that because there's a lot of really good people, I think, in the industry that are extremely talented and have understand workflows and understand what they're trying to do and maybe what their pain points are of, hey, I want to get here, but I'm really having a trouble with a, b, or c. Maybe this could be a way to address that. And I think that's how you get solutions that are new, technologies brought in and utilized across the board, and it works really well or works better. You mentioned that ivaclar uses feedback from clients to move forward Barbara: Yeah, you mentioned feedback, and that seems to be a word that I'm hearing a lot lately. Does ivaclar as a whole use that feedback from your clients and do these think tanks to try to move yourself forward? Don Bell: Yeah, that's a really good point. I think, in general, yes, I think we've been, you know, not to make excuses. I think we've gotten a little bit more internally focused than we would have probably liked coming, going through and out of the pandemic, like, on our business, how we work, how we run, what challenges we're having. I mean, a lot of people probably do that. It's not, you know, self critique, maybe, but I think it's true. But ideally, yeah, we sit with you, sit with customers and find out, you know, what, I like product x, but I always get this or that or I can't do this or I, this is too hard. There's too many steps involved, or why don't you have this? I think we're getting more and more back to that, either through informal focus groups, like from feedback from our sales teams, through our organization, or more formal ones, because it gives you a better picture of, I want to get to there. Like, people a lot of times have a general idea of, I want to be able to do this, but I don't have something that can get me there. Barbara: Yeah. Don Bell: And that's really where it becomes interesting. And that's, I think, great, because, you know, lab owners, my, opinion anyway, we don't know. We don't know how they're running their business. And what they do go through on a day to day basis is even close to what they do. So their feedback is really tangible about what works, what doesn't, what challenges they have. And many cases, you just need to listen and try to figure out, okay, how can we make this happen so they can be better? Barbara: I think that's a key word, listen. Feedback is something that we're discussing here, in my company for the last two or three months, and sometimes feedback stings a little bit. Digest it and really be proactive. It can change so many things. Don Bell: Yeah, I agree with that. I think if you're willing to ask the question, however you want to phrase it, but how are we doing as a company? How do we, you know, how do you like working with ivaclar as an example, or how are we doing you, once you open that door, you take whatever you get. You're not always going to get, wow, you guys are great. That's going to come up, hopefully a lot more than not, but you're also going to get, well, you know, here's the situation, and I think it's okay. Like, from my perspective, and I think we've, we've got a pretty good culture of just put it on the table like something's not working. Okay, let's figure it out. We'll figure it out. I'm not going to get, you know, my feelings hurt by somebody saying, you guys are really terrible in this area. It's like, all right, we got to be better. Let's figure out how do we do that, and let's figure out how to restart. The reason why I think it's so great is that in this industry in general, people are very open to telling you and being open about what works and doesn't work. I, think that's amazing because then you get a real good picture about kind of where you stand and what you can do better. And I think that's somewhat unique. Maybe it's because it's, relatively speaking, a smaller industry, or I'm not sure what it is, but it's ask questions, you're going to get answers, you know, you're gonna get feedback. And I think then it gives you an idea of, okay, this. How do we move forward? How do we fix it? Elvis: Just be careful when you do it on social media. Don Bell: Yeah, that's. That's a really good point. That's why it's, funny you say that. I'm very much off the grid in social media, and you don't want to. Elvis: Know what we're saying about you don't. Don Bell: It's not any particular reason for it, necessarily, but it started to feel too distant to me, like it felt too far away. So one of the things I really value about being at lab day in Chicago here is that, the last four years or so, we've been setting it, we set up meetings and meet with, you know, key labs. They might. They might be current customers, they may not be. And you sit and we just sit and talk about, hey, what's going on? You know, what do you see? What do we see? How are we working together? What are we doing? Well, what are we not? And you get really a lot of great insights or input about that. And I feel like it's more tangible and more direct, and I think social media has its place for sure. But I've really valued that a lot. Great deal. Barbara: Elvis is a social media. Elvis: Come on now. Barbara: Elvis is not, you can, you can eliminate that. Elvis is. Elvis: It will be eliminated. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis is on social media quite a lot, which is very impressive and done a lot for us. And, you know, you have to take. Elvis: To my own fault. Yeah. Barbara: Yep. What do you hear from the industry regarding digital dentures or 3d printing Elvis: But, don, since you have such. This great kind of perspective of the industry, all within the ivacar umbrella, and you all make so many different materials, does anything stand out, what you're hearing from the industry regarding, you know, digital dentures or 3d printing or any of that kind of stuff that just kind of made a mark on you recently? Don Bell: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, as an industry have moved. I mean, this is always probably going to be the case in a lot of industries, but in between areas, right. The way we used to do things, let's pick doing dentures as an example how they were traditionally produced, versus now, you know, we were able to come up with a technology to mill full arch. And now it's moved into, you know, now you can print, so you can, you actually have different stages of how do I want to produce a denture? And different technologies or different processes have different benefits to them and different outcomes to them in terms of how they work. But that, I say that as a specific example, because years ago, not long ago, dentures really got cool. Like, I've been in the industry 24 years. They, I would say they were not cool for a long time. And, dentures really, removal really got cool. And I think the technology had a lot to do with it. The materials that were utilized, how they were being produced, what options you had to service patients were dramatically different and better. The fits became much better. The materials continue to evolve. That's a category for me. That's one of the more fascinating ones, because it's, it feels like it's evolved so much in a short period of time. And from the way it was done historically to the way what your options are now. And it's, it's fascinating, and there's some really good ability to do that now. And I'll, give a specific, not my dog, sorry, specific example about that. In 2021, we did a innovation tour. We went on the road, and I remember that, yeah, everything was closed, and, you know, shows were kind of really light or canceled. So we went on the road, and we were at a program in Houston, and it was early on, and we had a doctor who had been doing, who had purchased one of our technologies, a mill was doing dentures. He did a lot of removable, in his market. And he told a very brief story where he's like, yeah, I had a patient came in, you know, 70, late seventies, early eighties, had a denture done. I don't remember what happened. The dog chewed it. I can't remember how it got damaged. But was at the time, you know, there was a concern, like, I don't know if I want to be back in the office or when I want to go back in. And meanwhile, he's missing. I don't know if it was both or one arch. He had, concerns, and rightly so. I think the doctor was able to say, you know, don't worry about it. He had, at this point, created a digital file. he ended up milling out a new denture. And the next day, after he found out, milled it out, took like an hour and a half to mill, came back, patient picked it up next morning, did like a drive by, like curbside pickup sort of thing, because patient was concerned about being, you know, am I safe in the office? Picked it up and left fit perfect because the impression had been digitized that point. So a remake was going to fit perfect. No adjustments needed. And, you think about that and think that's how technology benefits real life patient. You know, it's nice that you can go faster and do more, but that's, you know, patients loses a prosthesis like that, or has it damaged or chewed up by a pet and then gets it back in, you know, a couple hours or half a day, and they're back up and, you know, living their life again. That's amazing. Barbara: Yeah. Without having to go through the twelve steps to get there. Don Bell: Yep, that's one example. And I think you see that to some extent across other categories as well. How, you know, layering ceramic, move to press layered or monolithic? Mostly monolithic for a period, and then move to milling of discs and. And we'll probably get to printing, you know, sooner than later at some point. So your technologies continue to evolve. Elvis: What is the market for analog denture processing for ivoclar? Is that still big? Are you guys still selling a lot of, Ivo bases? Don Bell: Yeah, it's still pretty robust. Yeah, I mean, I think there's transition phases in industries with technology. I mean, some labs that are used to doing dentures a certain way may not change. They're doing what they do. They have the processes down. You know, they use Ivo base to essentially, injection mold, do the teeth place, and they've got a, they've got a process that works. And maybe they'll never move to another version, whether it's milling or printing or maybe they will somewhere down the road. So it's still a pretty robust category. And even our press category is still pretty robust, you know, and that's the technology's move to more to milling, obviously, of zirconia as well. But yeah, there are categories that I don't think people immediately will exit, even though it seems like it will. It doesn't really work always that way in terms of change. Elvis: Some of it can be expensive. I mean, I get that to go from 100% from, press packing dentures to milling dentures. It's quite a jump. But, the benefit is just so there. As you just mentioned earlier, all the benefits of digital. Don Bell: But we interviewed speakers, business speakers, years ago for a sales meeting. I'm drawing a blank on the person who I met with. I, got a chance to do interviews of a couple of speakers. It was a little intimidating. Intimidating as you can imagine. But one of the examples was, hey, you know, as an example of why people struggle sometimes with change, there was a, late seventies or something. There was some kind of corn seed that was developed for the US that was 30 or 40% better development of crops like it was. The corn seed had been developed and was clearly better, than whatever was being used before that. And it took some really excessive amount of time, like 20 or 30 years, before all the farmers actually transitioned over. Elvis: Why? Don Bell: Because they, changed. People don't really want to change. No one really wants to change anything. So you end up, even though it was better and it became, they ended up here. Even though there was data on it and reports, it became, a lot of. It became, they made changes because they knew friends that did it, or people that made the change and had success with it. Even though there was, like, I'll say, clinical data, there was data to support why it was better. It still took some numbers of people a significant time period to change, and they needed other, you know, nudges to kind of get them over the hump. Elvis: It took barb years to get used to digital models. She was complaining up a storm five years ago. Don Bell: right. And I think that's a very typical statement that people make, too, is once they move into whatever it is, the new technology, like, oh, I wish I would have done this five years earlier. I'll never go back to the way I was doing it. Elvis: Well, I never want to set teeth again, I'll tell you that. You still make porcelain fused and metal ceramics, don't you Barbara: Well, pfms, so you guys still make porcelain fused and metal ceramics, don't you? And alloys, is that dipped at all, or is that still going fairly strong? Don Bell: We kind of categorize whether this is right or wrong in terms of categorization, but like the digital analogous versions of some of our products. And, like metal ceramics still has a market for us, and it's declining, as you can imagine, but it's still a market. And I think I go back to the point about either what labs are used to using, comfortable doing, or still have a market for. And dentists the same. They might be getting scripts for, you know, whatever from the clinician, and they're filling it with what they know best and what they're really good at. Yeah, it's really interesting. The portfolio kind of goes through, I think, for us, because it's so broad, a transition phase of, let's say, technology that was and what's new. And then you've got this gap of, you know, where people transition from the current version into the newer technology, and it's not everybody goes at once. It just doesn't seem to work that way. So, yeah, it's just the way it is. I mean, we still sell amalgam on the clinical side of our business. Barbara: Yeah, I was asking you about that. Dentists and labs are increasingly collaborating on large cases So clinical. So you've got labs, and you have Dennis. Elvis and I talk to a lot of companies, and most of them are either one or the other. And you guys service both ends of what we do. What's it like working with clinical side? Elvis: Who's cooler? Barbara: I know. Don Bell: Well, that's a loaded question. I think, I actually think both groups are really interesting to work with and different, have different perspectives on what they see and how they engage with their customers and what the expectations are. And one of the things I really value in it for us is that when you hear from dentists and labs, I think there was more of a, Again, this is my perspective in 24 years. I was. A lot of my time was on the clinical side of the business. I feel like in the past, there was a little bit more of. I sent an impression in vps, which was typical, obviously, all the time. Vps, went in the lab, produced the restoration, and it got sent back, and the dentist tried it in, and maybe if it, maybe it didn't, maybe had to m make adjustments, and it kicked back and forth to the lab. I feel as though we've entered into over the last several years, and I think this will continue to get closer, a much, much more era of collaboration, of how cases develop, how treatment plans are developed, especially bigger cases that are extremely collaborative in nature. And because you can share digital files, you can design together, there are things that you can do together to make modifications before anything actually gets produced. And I just think it creates amazing opportunities to create and treatment plan like large cases and have great success with it. And the technology allows for that. Technology allows for communication to be better and to be more accurate, but also collaborative. And I'm sure that's not the case across the board, but it just, it seems to me like this is more and more the case where labs and Dennis really work together closely on a day to day basis and are able to share information which allows both to have much better success than ever before. And I think that's pretty cool. I mean, that's, at the end of the day, it's the patient that probably wins in this whole equation. They get final case that looks amazing. They don't have to come back because there are probably no adjustments or no modifications to make, and everybody's extremely pleased with the outcome. And that's the ultimate. I think we're in this age of collaboration, which is pretty cool. That's when you talk about advancing in industry. I think that's how you really advance industry in terms of what it can do for the end user and the patient. Elvis: The best example I can think of is, you know, back in the day, someone would call me at the lab and say, hey, I sent in a case yesterday I need to talk about. I'm like, that's not even out of the model room yet. I can't talk to you about it yet, I can't see it. But now it's like, yeah, let me just pull it up. Here it is. I don't even have to open up, you know, three shape or exocad if I can just look at it in a 3d viewer and review it. And, I mean, it's an amazing time we're in. Don Bell: Yeah. And I think that's where things get really cool, because cases that maybe seem, and we see this at, lab day, when we have presenters during our programs that are usually, generally showing larger cases. And you can see even when it's presented by the lab that's doing the work, it's extremely collaborative in terms of how the case starts, how it was treatment planned, how the files were shared, how the attempts were created, and how the finals were done. And it's. There's a lot of steps in between where there's really high levels of communication. I think those are the, you know, the partners, the dentists and the labs are going to be highly, highly successful doing that and communicating well, are going to end up generating the best results and probably the most efficient way to produce restorations. That's pretty cool, really. It's amazing. Elvis: It's awesome. So you mentioned printing earlier. Why are you launching that early? So you mentioned printing earlier. I thought ivacar got into printing and they got out of printing. And did I see something about sprint Ray? Don Bell: Yeah, good question. So our focus really became, was and still is as a materials company. We're a materials company first and foremost. We do make equipment, for sure. We obviously, we make mills, we make furnaces, curing lights, we make a printer, to your point. And there are other things that we've had some pieces of equipment and dropped along the way, but we've been a materials company as a priority. And our goal, kind of our restated goal has been, let's really focus on how we develop the best materials, whether it's our equipment or not, and predictability consistency, clinical success, aesthetics, and that become really focused. So we entered into developing 3d materials as a category because it's a big category and I think it as a general topic, there are a lot of companies in the space. Elvis: Yeah, it's pretty crowded. Don Bell: A lot of companies from outside of dental that have entered the space with materials. And I think a lot of materials have good fits for applications in the industry. And we're trying to find the right spots, especially around fixed and restorative. I think a lot of areas like, yeah, we can make a model material, but I think we want to really focus on how do we develop final fixed restorations that are elite and how do we do the same for denture materials. So we've kind of expanded. We start with that premise, started to develop materials that we think are extremely good and comparable to different ways that we produce today. And we're working with partners. So, you know, we work with companies like Asega, and with Sprintray to develop materials, to work in their technology and the collaboration, to your point, that we announced earlier this year with Sprintray. Similar to that, we're working with them on trying to develop workflows to make sure that there's success with restorations that come out of their printer and also develop materials, that would work in their printer highly effectively as well, which lands us to our, our new material, which comes out later this week. Barbara: what is it? Don Bell: It's under the ivotian brand. So Ivotian, as you know, was a disk material. So we made a two disc version, base and teeth. And then we made the ivotion single disk solution, and now we're making, the first product will be a base, 3d printed base material, which we've been testing quite a bit, doing comparables to our current materials, Ivo base that we offer today, and our current milled version. So we think we've got a really good product, good durability, strength, properties, aesthetics, as a focus. And we'll be releasing that, later, October of this year, lab day. Barbara: Why are you launching that early? Don Bell: so, you know, like most things, to be very honest, sometimes you got to know yourself. So I feel like there's always been a ramp up stage for us as far as launches. So the idea was we're going to get to market this year. We actually happen to be going to, we have a meeting in the fall, which is the American College of Prosthodontics, which is in November. We're significantly involved in. And it's a good jump off point for us. It's a great relationship with us in the prosp market, with ivaclar in the prost market and the Prost college and, Ivotian as a solution. A milled version has been very well adopted and we think, it's a good step off for us because it'll be the print version, which is very comparable in terms of durability. And it gives that category of users the ability to actually see, start to use it, see how they would apply it in their application when they like to use it, more so than a milled version as an example, or, the ivo based version. So I think that was a good step off point for us. Then we're going to wrap up, learn from it. It's a new category for us, and materials gives us a chance to learn a lot going into lab day of next year. So that was kind of the idea. It just afforded us some opportunity this year with regulatory approvals that we decided to step out early this year and go to market. Barbara: It's super strategic too, affiliated with that meeting and everything. That'll be huge for you guys. Don Bell: Yeah, I mean, trust me, that was not well planned. It was, we got regulatory approval, which was a bit of a. I mean, I don't know how much you're aware of this, but, FDA approval, or health Canada has been for several years, has been slow to. Very slow. And we submitted our material and got it done faster than we ever anticipated. So we figured, all right, let's roll it. We got coming up this year. Let's go to market. Yeah, it worked out. Sometimes, usually it's the other way. Usually things get delayed and sometimes things go your way. So fell in our direction, but you're. Elvis: Only releasing the base. The teeth are step one; the print tooth is next What about teeth? Don Bell: Yeah, so the teeth is, step two. So when we looked at materials that are out there right now, you know, we look at what, the way you can currently produce it. Ivobase does a really phenomenal denture with durability, aesthetics. Our milled version is very good, but to your point, you know, earlier, your mill and discs, and that may or may not always fit every laboratory, in terms of what they can do. Printing obviously is much better. So we were trying to get, we want to get physical properties similar to what you can do. So if, regardless of what technology that you pick of how you want to produce a denture, you'll be able to produce something that's durable, clinically successful, aesthetic. And we see some of the cases with print materials are a little brittle, especially in denture cases, especially if they go on all on four, like an implant case. If the material is a little brittle, it's, it tends to show pretty quick. So we think we've got a really good fit. We want to get the base right. We got really some significant hurdles to go on the teeth because we want to have a very good wear property material, you know, similar to, if you look at our current, like, blue line double cross link version, denture tooth, we want to get wear properties more like that in a printed version that look that good. Barbara: That stuff's the best. Don Bell: Right. We set a bar. We're setting a bar for ourselves. So we got, we were able to achieve the base, and we figured what we'll do is we're going to go to market the base material. What I recommend m, you can always print teeth, whatever tooth material you want to print. you'll be able to bond them together. You can also mill our teeth out of the ivotian puck and then bond those to the base material as well. So there's some different ways to get. And the milled version is a little bit more wear resistant, I'd say, then a lot of the materials on the market. So I think there's some value to that. But the print tooth is next. That's in process right now as far as getting it to market and finalizing. And we're working hard to get a complete print solution sooner than later. Elvis: What about using carded teeth in the printed base? Is that an option? Don Bell: Sure. I mean, at the end of the day, you're really. It's, it's what you choose the bond. So we're, we're kind of picking, I don't want to say picking, I guess you would say prioritization of what the workflow would look like. So, mill the tooth, bond the surface. You're going to get probably the best physical property combination of, like a hybrid print to mill version. Print version is probably going to be the fastest, maybe the most economical, might have some different wear properties on the two side, on the car to teeth. You probably could do it just whether you want to seat all the teeth. So we actually haven't really. Yeah, we, we tried to look at when we, as we entered this, just like every, I think 3d solution is you're trying to balance, okay, you get access to a piece of technology to be able to produce a device. We, want to make sure the device has good physical properties, wear strength, et cetera, and aesthetics, but also is really efficient. So we're trying to lean more toward the let's try to make you, as a lab owner, more efficient. This is probably one of the two ways you're going to go. That's going to be the most efficient way to do it. But you know what? We may learn different. We may get into this in the fall and early spring and see a different application. Or maybe you're to your point about, you know, placing carded teeth is going to be a broader solution. But, you know, I can't even head. Barb: I'm curious about younger technicians getting into removable teeth Barbara: Around placing carded teeth. Like, how would you even do that, Elvis? Elvis: You'd sit there and push each individual tooth into a hole. I mean, I don't know. I wouldn't do it. I just know that a lot of people really love iva clar teeth, denture teeth. I mean, you guys have like five lines of them or something, and they're just some of the most wet, well recepted. Well, what am I trying to say? They're some of the highly, you know, respected, respected. Thank you, Barb. Respected, denture tooth. Barbara: Yeah, I agree. Don Bell: Yeah, I think, you know, that's really good point. I mean, our line, we've predominantly sold, I'd say, premium and up blue line phenaris are extremely aesthetic, durable, high strength materials, great wear properties. One of the big benefits of digital, too, is you get the ability of our tooth libraries into milk. Elvis: Yeah. Don Bell: And that's something I think we have to get much better at being able to convey, too, as we go to market with. The solution is, all right, I mean, if you are going to mill teeth, you actually have the ability to mill tooth of choice because you're milling tooth libraries. So you're may not be exactly the same as a car teeth, but it really gets pretty close. I mean, I, I think our, like our evocative teeth, I'm still, or dentures, I'm always amazed that, at how those come out. I mean, it's amazing to me and how the aesthetics look and how they fit. It's just an amazing technology that we've developed. But I think this is similar. I think you have the flexibility of taking what you like in a digital format of mold design and incorporate it into a milled version of something and then place it. And I think that'd be the same in printing, obviously, it's a file, so you're working with a file. And if the output is a printer or a mill, that's what you're going to get. That's where this kind of gets exciting to me, is that it gives, I think it gives the lab a lot more flexibility. At least our perspective is it gives you flexibility to produce what you want. It's an easy change to whatever mold or library that you want to work with and then output it on whatever device you want to have that you can place in your laboratory and produce a great result. Elvis: And even when you mentioned earlier, with that flexibility, it's still okay to do an analog denture. I know we spend a lot of time talking about digital, but there's a lot of great analog technicians out there doing great analog dentures. Barbara: Oh, yeah. Don Bell: You know, this is, maybe a question, and, we hear this a lot. So I, and I hear this a lot anecdotally, but I'm not a technician, so I'm kind of curious your perspectives. It seems to me like the feedback we get is. Yeah, you know, it's. The removable area is one of the areas that's really not getting backfilled. Like people that were really technicians that were great and removable exit, and then there's no backfill to that. is that a fair statement? I mean, do you guys see that as well? Barbara: It's a very true, sad statement, yes. Elvis: You would agree, I think, in large terms of the industry, yes. Don Bell: Okay. Elvis: But there is a coming of, younger technicians, really, into removable. maybe it's a small niche that I just see online, but it seems like I'm seeing more and more people well within their twenties or thirties really into removables. And I love it and I hope it continues to grow. Don Bell: I mean, I do too. I think that's the. Maybe the benefit of foundational training of what you need to be able to capture and address or address for a really good removable device, and then you've got technology to make it, I think, just be more efficient. You're not taking. There's not twelve steps involved to get a final, denture completed. But I hope that's the case. I mean, I really do. I just think it's a category that I would imagine will have a significant life to it for an extended period of time. And I think it would be underserved as an industry if we weren't able to be able to maybe train up the next 100%. Yeah, the next group, I mean, we love to help with that too. It's just, it becomes a real question of how do we help? I appreciate the feedback on that. Elvis: You said yourself it's exciting. Again, I think that's exactly what we need to do. We need to make it appealing for people to get into the industry to make dentures. I mean, I think it's cool, but I don't know how I tell other people at school. Barbara: Well, you do have a point, though, with all of the materials that and all of the things that you can do with the gum and make it look so real, and adding all of those, I do think it's becoming more aesthetic art for the younger folks. And it's not just, I want to learn to design or I want to be a ceramist, but for me in Florida, not so much. I mean, there's not a heck of a lot of denture techs that are left. But I don't disagree with your viewpoint at all, Elvis. Elvis: Yeah, yeah. Don Bell: It is an interesting space. It got cool. Elvis: It is. Don Bell: And I think you're right. I think it appeals to people differently. Maybe the things that you can do that are more. You know, I'm still working in. In technology and software and design, but I'm able to make, you know, it's. It's artistic. It is artistic. Barbara: Yeah. Don Bell: Yeah. Elvis: And you get to affect a human being positively. I mean, that's really neat. And not having to become a doctor or go to nursing school or something, you know, you're able to change a life. Barbara: Well said. Don Bell: Yeah, I agree with him. Ray: Ultimately, the goal is to create efficiently a printed restoration Barbara: I've got that printing question for you. You know, I'm a huge emacs fan, and you guys already might be doing this, but is there any launching of or thought process to. And maybe you already are, and I don't know about it, but printing emacs. Don Bell: Yes. I mean, short answers. Ultimately, the goal is, how do we create and be able to create efficiently a, printed restoration that has similar physical properties to what we're offering. Either impressor milled today, and I currently. You can. I mean, it's actually company companies call lithos. Lithos can print emacs. Today. They were at LMT. Where were they at LMT? They were downstairs. It takes a long time. So the process they actually to print and then debine the material and go through the firing phase is long right now. Elvis: Oh, you print and still fire? Don Bell: Yep. Elvis: Crazy. Barbara: Well, just wrapping my brain around just the material of lithium disilicate, and how you could additively print that and get the same, you know, what's the scientific. Don Bell: Word I'm looking for but mumbo jumbo. Barbara: Expansion, or, you know, strength and all of that. Don Bell: It's a good point. I mean, I think one of the things about printing in general, that generally speaking, this general statement, when printing really started to become, I think more and more popular is that most of the applications for it are one use or limited use application, generally speaking. So it doesn't mean you can't print dentures. I'm not suggesting that. But you print dentures and as an example, sometimes, you know, they're a little porous currently, they might be a little brittle. I mean, the materials are going to continue to evolve m and they'll get, continue to evolve and get better, but you get, and maybe different, maybe a little bit quicker where than a traditional denture is produced. Like, and the goal is trying to get similar. So I think regardless of the technology, you want to get to a point where it's like, okay, if I, I take a traditional route to do a denture or mill it or print it, they're all going to be pretty much, they're going to be very similar in terms of physical properties. And when you print, because you print layers, it's sometimes difficult to create that really cohesive monolithic type restoration that you can and other technologies that can withstand repetitive wear and tear in a warm environment. Warm, moist environment. So the first time I ever really started getting involved, I mean, and started hear about 3d printing was years ago. But you started to hear like, you know, I can, I can print all the parts and run a car. That's true. But you could run the car like twice because the parts would wear, break down. It was a cool idea. It's what kind of force and what kind of materials can you print and how much can it withstand. And the oral environment is tough, really is tough on materials. It's warm, moist, and it's repetitive over and over. And if materials have weak points, they break down. Yeah, that's typical. So on, especially fixed type restorations. So that's the challenge. I think the challenge for everyone in the, in the space is how do you take things that are currently being produced through pressing or milling? They have physical properties that are, you know, virtually 100% successful. And then be able to replicate that in a printing environment and get this, get similar or the same results. I think that becomes the goal. That's a challenge. Barbara: Most printing materials wet or, you know, gooey. Don Bell: Yeah, yeah. So you end up with some kind of slurry of materials or, you know, resins. Resin. So it's, it's almost like a liquidy kind of gel form, but you, in the case of glass or ceramic, it gets more of a slurry type form that you're trying to convert into something that's solid. And I think you end up seeing, like, even some of the newer materials on the market that can better have more ceramic filler. You put ceramic filler in to make it be, you know, a little bit more tough and a little bit more durable. But they're still predominantly resin base because resin flows better currently in terms of what you can actually do with it and apply it. So, you know, I do think there'll be jumps in how things get produced that will probably change that. Barbara: That's fascinating to me. I'd love to be a fly on that R and D wall. Don Bell: Yeah, it's not easy. I mean, I got to tell you, this was, one of the things we learned about our collaboration with Sprint Ray, and in terms of how they're incorporating a different way of technology into their printing process is they actually have little capsules or cartridges that are more heavily filled, and it acts, there's actually a pressing process to it where it forces the material down into the actual machine, and then it's cured as it's going through the process. Cured is not probably the right terminology, but it's layered so it can be formed into the final restoration. But they had to apply a different process to it or a different technique to be able to force the material, because it's a. Once you added more ceramic to it, it was way more viscous. Way less viscous. It didn't flow very well. So you had to force it. Barbara: Yeah. Don Bell: Under pressure, almost like a, you know, it's not a press technique, obviously, but it's. It's similar to that process. So, yeah, I think that's what ends up happening is that companies, between the material companies and the equipment companies, you try to find the, I want to achieve x physical properties, one, two, and three. How do I get there and what's the step? And it's, the material probably will have to be modified a little, and then there's going to be, how do I get, how does the material get processed to get to that final step? Barbara: Awesome. Don Bell: Yeah, well, that was a great. Barbara: Yeah. Makes a lot of sense to me. I just still, I find it fascinating, something I. Why does everybody wait to the end of the year to buy equipment Elvis: It's kind of off topic, but I've always wondered about, and I imagine I have a car, is aware of this or participates in it, but why does everybody wait to the end of the year to buy equipment? What is. Is that, seriously, is there. It's like a tax thing, right? Don Bell: Yeah, for a lot of years. And this is both the same on, on the clinical side of the business, too. Doctors do the same thing. Yeah. So you end up with tax codes that were enacted years ago, that were put in place for tax credits. They had to be acted on by the end of a calendar year. Elvis: Why does everybody wait till the end? Don Bell: So you end up. And you end up. This is always the kind of the process that probably goes on. You start a year, you try to figure out where you sit from a, with your accountant, where you sit from a tax perspective in terms of income, how much tax you've already put away. And if I make a purchase, do I want to make it this year so I can get a tax deduction? Does it make sense, or do I wait and do it the following year? Maybe the year is going in such a way that, a purchase of a big piece of technology and the ability to write off the depreciation is a huge benefit in a year. Or maybe it doesn't help you if, you know, the circumstances are different. So you end up weighing the. Whether it's a. Let's take the lab, for example. Lab looks at it, I would imagine, more so, and says, okay, I'm producing x. My demand is y. Do I have enough to be able to produce, or am I starting to get behind, or do I have backup systems in place to address production? You know, do I make a decision on, do I add a mill as an example? in a calendar year, that's probably the primary decision point. And then the other side of it becomes, where do I sit from a, a year end standpoint in terms of income? And if I make a purchase, does it make sense to do it in this calendar year? So you end up, I think, inherently kind of falling into a later in the year decision on those things. And, you know, it's just. There's cycles to this, and I. It's. It's, I think, ultimately becomes fascinating if that were to change down the road. And, you know, people just end up making decisions on, where am I today? What do I need? Maybe it smooths out the demand, but, yeah, we see that flurry of end of the year. Who's got the best deal on equipment in Q four? Right, right. And, of course, we feed into that as a manufacturer. We all feed into that, because then we. We do the best q four promotions possible. Elvis: So does ivaclar have any good promotions you want to throw out there? Don Bell: I mean, yeah, we're actually. We have current promotion. We have current things running right now, the end of September, and then we'll have new things for Q four, and, to the team's credit. We've put together really good landing spot, landing page with all of our current promotional activities that we'd like to. You know, obviously, our reps are great and they can kind of direct you through it. But it's. We try to paint a picture of everything that's available on the equipment side, whether it's furnaces or mills. There's. There are different packages for, you know, mill and material, mill and furnace, mill, just with financing, mill on your own. But we've been able to kind of put together some really, aggressive activities for the labs for the back end of the year. Because I think. I mean, we. Anecdotally, I think we kind of hear, too, it's at times maybe been slow this year, but I think there's so much more being milled than ever before, whether they're being. Whether it's zirconia or glass or in our case, even PMMA for, dentures that, you know, milling material is always in demand, and keeping the lines running is really important to keep capacity up for the lab. So, yeah, we've developed some interesting opportunities for that, I think for the back end of the year. Barbara: I know my emacs numbers are up Elvis big. So. Yeah, I'm that group of labs. Elvis: Yeah. Don Bell: I mean, I do think there's, you know, there's been ebbs and flows of the industry this year, too. Like, I mean, as an impact to the category or the industry, you know, shine. The cyber attack on Henry Schein was really disruptive to all. I mean, that ripple effect has been really significant. And it's affected, you know, manufacturers, affected dealers, but it affects dentists, too. So it's. There's a ripple effect to something like that that occurs. And that's, unfortunately, the world we live in, too, where cyber attacks are a thing that happen everywhere in every industry now. Barbara: Yeah, we got cyber attacked as well, like, six, months ago, our whole network of labs. And it was tough. I mean, it really cripples you unless you've got some geniuses, like we did on our side. Fortunately for us, that got us back up and running. But, yeah, it cripples you. Don Bell: Yeah, it's really scary, honestly, that I think everyone can be a target. You know, the re. That's the reality of it. And if you are and somebody finds a way in, then you're. It's going to be. It's going to be a mess, and you got to just work your way through it. Well, let's go back to something a little more, uh. I want to touch on Clara academy real quick Elvis: Well, let's go back to something a little more, Happy, I know. Don Bell: We digress. Sorry about that. Elvis: I want to touch on. I have a Clara academy real quick. Barbara: Hold on. Elvis: Sorry, go ahead and, barb, we told you to stay. Barbara: It was Taylor. I'm sorry, it was my phone. Elvis: Oh, you have Taylor Swift as a ring toe. Barbara: Yes, it was Taylor Swift. Elvis: Okay. All right. Ivaclar academy helps customers learn how to use avaclar products To touch upon ivaclar academy and what, what you're all doing there. Anything exciting? Any courses coming up in the fall, maybe early spring? Don Bell: You know, academy, we started several years ago with the intent of creating an education platform. And, there's a couple different aspects to it. There's the kind of the shortest watch short video, like a technique tip. There are also webinars. There are also longer, let's say longer courses that are presented as well. And I think the idea ultimately is that customers try things they want to learn how to use. It could just be technique tips, could be an actual webinar of how to use the product. And it allows you, if you buy an avaclar product, especially to really get clarity of how to use something, how to use it effectively, well, and get the best results. So that's on the dentist and lab side of our business. And we're actually actively, right now, working through content creation for removal in general, but also around our print material from a base material and how that fits into different workflows. So, you know, a lab technician as an example, or a lab owner could actually join and see, okay, print based material looks good. You know, where do I use it? How do I use it? How do I handle it? How do I actually, what am I going to place it with? How do I bond it, etcetera. So, as an example, that's in process right now. But we also have courses in general on removable. We also do courses on our, restorative materials, whether it be designing or staining and glazing or layering. You know, they're really designed just to be a, it's an adjunct or a help to the customer. To me, I bought x. I want to know how to use it better. I'm going to learn from an in house technician with technique tips on how to be the most aesthetically, get the best aesthetic impact. Or I can go see a lecture from lab technician, you know, Joe Smith, and actually get a presentation on an entire workflow of how they use the mill, how they use the materials, how they get the best results with design, etcetera. So, yeah, academy has been a nice fit for us to help support end users be effective. And again, this was one of those things that kind of came out of things changed. Everyone was going to live courses. Like live courses were the primary. I think way people learn now, it's different. And I think we try to be flexible with short, long hybrid. And if you've taken a hands on course, even with us, you can get a lecture webinar, but also do some of the components of the course yourself for the hands on kit. So try to make it adaptable for people to have easy access and be able to learn, you know, as they want. Elvis: You're doing a good thing with it. I mean, I've definitely watched a couple videos that they've been very helpful. Don Bell: And I think the goal ultimately is how to use the products better. But I think of it too, from the digital side of, as workflows change or softwares get updated or cams get updated, like there's, there's different pieces. Obviously, I can use different design software, different platforms. We have our own cam version software that connects to our mill. How do I optimize the use of the mill and firing technology to get the best results if I'm, firing zirconia or glass, and some of it's little details that make a big difference, you know, whether it's design aspects to be more efficient, or how I transition to making adjustments to get the best aesthetics and characterization, of a final restoration, like all that matters. So I do think there are a lot of tips and tricks that people have, and I'm sure that's a lot of online group chat type of discussions, too, of how do I get the best result with, you know, prime zirconia or ivotian or what have you. Like, that's, that's part of it. And we just want to provide a platform for people to get it from us, too, so they have another way to learn. Elvis: Yeah. Awesome. Don Bell spent 24 years at dental company ivaclar Well, don, that was a, that was a quick hour, man. Sounds like you're a busy guy. Don Bell: There's, a lot going on. Yeah. Ivaclar has been, you know, I just hit 24 years at ivaclar this past July, and, it's been really fascinating for me to grow up in this organization. And, we have great people, really amazing people throughout the organization. Elvis: Let's stick around for a while. That's what's cool. Don Bell: Yes. Extremely knowledgeable people. And you learn so much from everybody that we share a lot of information, obviously, as you can imagine. So we all learn from each other. And, yeah, it's been a great environment to be at, and, you know, North America is a great market to be in, and I'm happy to be here and happy to be here for a while longer. So it's been. Yeah, it's been a ride. It's been a ride. And, yes, I am a busy guy. Barbara: And a great company. No doubt. Don Bell: Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Elvis: we appreciate you being so busy taking an hour to talk to us, and, yeah, let's do it again sometime, and let's not wait five years. Barbara: Yeah. Don Bell: Yeah. How many episodes were in between? A lot. Elvis: Yeah. Don Bell: all right, let's try not to do it a lot. Yeah, I bet. Elvis: All right, Don. Well, we appreciate it. Don Bell: Thank you. Elvis: Yep. Barbara: Yeah. Don Bell: All right. Thank you guys very much. Elvis: We'll see in Chicago. Don Bell: Okay, bye. Barbara: What a great interview. A, big thanks to Don Bell for finding some time in your busy schedule to talk to us on the podcast. Ivaclar has always been a leader in the dental space, and it's really great to get a perspective from somebody that has been with them for a long time and works with both labs and clinicians. We cannot wait to print ivotion. I'm sure you will at your lab, Elvis. Barbara: And especially emacs, as that will certainly be a game changer as big as when emacs originally came out. And we can't miss this opportunity to thank ivaclar for their support of our podcast. It's unbelievable to partner with such an amazing company for Elvis and I. We ask all our listeners to send some business their way and let them know that you appreciate them for supporting us. And even though we talked about ids, the beginning of the podcast, we are extremely happy to announce. Dun dun dun dun dun. Elvis: Woo hoo. Barbara: That Elvis and I will be back in their grand ballroom at LMT Lab Day, Chicago, 2025. Elvis: We love that spot. It is such an amazing time. Barbara: So much energy, so many people. We are just so stoked. It's going to be a busy February, busy march. Can't get here fast enough. Elvis: All right, everybody, that's all we got for you, and we will talk to you next week. Barbara: Have a great week. Elvis: Dry off, barb. Barbara: I will. Don Bell: I will. Bye. Barbara: Are you pretty handy? Elvis: No, I don't think so. Not even close. The views and opinions expressed on the voices from the bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or voices from the bench, LLC.