Hey, Voices of the Bench community, Jessica Love here, giving me a shout out from Utah. As many of you know, I am passionate about creating natural-looking, beautiful smiles, and I also believe in simplifying systems without compromising on aesthetics. I am honored to be part of Ivoclar's development team to bring you a new stain and glaze system with structure paste. IPSEmax CeramArt. With this system, you can create beautiful works of art with depth and color in as little as one firing. Join us as we continue to innovate, simplify, and create meaningful change, one smile at a time.
So Barb, I got a quick update.
Oh yeah? Did you finally track down Felix from Imagine USA, Elvis?
No, not yet. But boy, do I got a plan.
Ha ha, that sounds kind of dangerous.
Anything for the podcast, Barb?
I know.
Anything. So as you know, we're both heading to Mallorca for Exocad Insights.
No, I didn't know that, but that's right. We do have a rough life.
Yeah, I know. I think I'm going to find a way to suffer through it. But yeah, I'm planning to catch up with him there and finally lock in details for the podcast.
Oh my god, that's perfect. Neutral ground. Sounds amazing.
Exactly. He can't run off to another meeting. There's no hiding behind a booth. We're on an island. Where are you going to go?
There's nowhere to escape and I'm going to grab him.
Nowhere indeed.
So I like it. And honestly, he's one of those guys where the story is just as interesting as the technology.
Totally. I mean, going from one of the first labs doing in-house titanium to building imagined into what it is today.
And then of course, evolving into equipment, implant components, custom workflows, all of it.
From what I hear, we're not even scratching the surface.
Well, okay, it sounds like Mallorca might be the place where it's gonna finally happen.
That's definitely the goal.
All right, Felix, if you're listening, no backing out because I'm gonna come get you.
That's right. We're down to Felix. We're coming for you in Spain.
Well done, Elvis, well done.
Why does he want me to say another language? I don't know. I'm gonna give him so much.
Doesn't he know you? That's awesome.
Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info@voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 422 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
My name is Excited Barbara.
Excited Barbara? Why are you excited? What's going on?
I'm pretty sure this episode's coming out the Monday before we go to XOK.
Yes, Insights is happening in, what, four days now from this episode? It's so great. I'm actually already in Spain.
Yes, I know you are, doing something fun, hopefully eating good food.
I've already been in Madrid for three days. When this episode drops, I think we're on a train to Barsa. Oh, man. Super excited.
Beautiful. Thank you, XOK.
Absolutely. By the time this airs, I know we're kind of like this weird kind of thing. Yeah, you're leaving. You're leaving the next day.
That Tuesday, the 28th. Yes, that's correct.
So exciting. I don't know if those that remember, but insights two years ago, this is the trip where I left my laptop in Barcelona Airport coming home and damn near only almost lost all of those recordings we did. Gotta give a big special shout out to Jamie Marino. He was a technician that took the time to go back to that airport and get my laptop and ship it to me. I really hope he's there this weekend.
If he is there, we're buying him a cocktail.
I'm buying him the island. I'm telling you. But yeah, this year I think I'm going to strap the laptop to my back for my whole trip home.
Awesome.
Everyone, be prepared. Lots of good recordings coming up from Insights.
You got it.
So this week, we're making up for a mistake that I made. You know, when this podcast started over 8 years ago, our very first guest was a professor at the New York City College of Technology and of course, a good friend, Renana Bundy. She happened to be around at Lab Day Chicago, In 2018, when we started planning this podcast, she was at the wrong place at the wrong time or the right place at the right time. I don't know how you look at it. Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah. But every 52 episodes, we have her back on to update us on the school. And then she usually brings on some guests that are associated with the school. You know, past students, instructors, you name it. She has brought on some great technicians. You know, this year between life and work, the year actually slipped by me. Originally, this should have been episode 416. Yeah, so I missed it by a few weeks. But you know what? It's worth keeping up on tradition.
God, yes.
Yeah, as this week, we welcome back Professor Renata Butney to update us on the school, but she also brings with her two special guests. The first one is someone that actually hired Renata before she started teaching, Roberta Rosi. The owner of Synergy Dental Ceramics in New York City, and also to the joining the conversation is a graduate of Renata's program, Eugene Vega. Together, they talk about getting into the lab field. how Roberto grew his lab with demanding clients and quality over quantity, the concept of still fighting digital dentistry today, and talking to new students about not getting discouraged after graduation. So join us as we chat with Roberto Rossi, Eugene Vega, and of course, Renata Butney. Voices from the bench. The interview. I am happy to introduce for the 8th time back on the podcast, Renata Bundy. How are you?
I'm very good. How are you, Elvis?
I'm doing fantastic. For those that don't know, Renata, our very first guest on this podcast, 417 some odd episodes ago. I dropped the ball. I missed our 8th year anniversary, but here we are making up for it. Renata, you are a professor at the New York City College of Dental Technology. I am so long. Dental. What? What is it again?
Elvis, every time you mess it up. Okay, it's New York City College of Technology.
Okay, just technology, but you're in the restorative dentistry part?
That's correct.
Awesome. And you brought someone that graduated from the program.
Someone who is my former boss and someone who graduated from the program. Yes, very exciting.
Oh, is this Roberto?
Roberto is my former boss, yes.
Roberto Rossi.
Rosie.
Come on, Elvis. You can do better than that.
No, I cannot. Roberto Rosie.
Rosie. Rosie.
Rosie. Rosie. Roberto Rosie. And also joining is Eugene Vega.
Yeah, that's right. I am.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, no, thank you so much. Now, Roberto, you used to be Renata's boss. Give us all the dirt. How much she has in an employee.
God, no. I would have never considered myself to be her boss. Serena, that was amazing. She had just bigger dreams and she wanted to move forward and continue education. She will start her hearing, you know... Us being called the BI school dropouts, So she decides, what, I love working with you, but I got something cooking in the oven in here. I got a little baby coming and I want to enjoy her more and I want to have a job that is more flexible. And I supported everything she wanted to do. She's amazing, amazing person.
Yeah, if you want flexibility, working in a lab is not the job for you. No.
Not always. I have to disagree with that. You can also work from home.
Well, that is true. And, I mean, there are ways to get flexibility, but a majority of technicians, we are chained to the bench and we are cranking out the work. But Roberto, give me your story. How did you get into dental technology?
The easy way to say I was tired of being a garbage man.
Wait a minute, what? Were you really a garbage man?
Well, no. So how did I get into dental technology is growing up in Italy, there were a lot of, I was surrounded by a lot of dental laboratory, dental technicians. And back in the 80s, it was a very great profession and everybody worked the hours that they wanted to work. meaning that they didn't have to be at work at 6 or 10, but they worked whatever time. And I remember in particular, some of my friends that had gone to school and worked for their brother that was, they were down laboratories owners, and they would be there 1 o'clock in the morning. We were coming home from discotheques and clubs, and he was still working. And I'm like, you know, what's going on? He goes, well, I gotta deliver this denture, I gotta deliver this partial, or whatever it was. and tomorrow, and I got to finish it tonight. So obviously, I'm sure there were a lot of procrastinators that did everything on the last minute. But I kind of saw, I had a little bit of a hard background that was a mold maker for sculptures in the cinema industry, in the movie industry. And therefore, I knew how to mold, I knew how to carve, I knew how to reproduce things. And I found that it was a really a great job for me. But in Italy, it was a five-year program, paid program. And my parents couldn't afford it, put me through school. They wanted me to go to work and learn a trade. Fast forward five years later, I come to New York and I need to get a job. And I get a job as a garbage man with my uncle. And after a year and a half working there...
Literally, you were a garbage man in New York City.
I was working for a private sanitation in Suffolk County. Nassau County, Long Island. I would drive his pickup trucks everywhere and picking up roll-offs and et cetera, et cetera. And I knew that that was not what I wanted to do. There was nothing created about that.
Yeah, yeah.
And every day it felt like a year until I met someone that introduced me to a dental technician that guided me to participate and do a year of paid program in New York City, similar to where And now there is at now and started working at a laboratory after four months I was in school.
What'd you do at the lab when you started?
So when I started, I was working at Enau's lab. And if you know what that means, right? So as working at the right. So as I was working there, the dentist that was there, every time I said, I want to leave, I want to start my own business. He would tell me, just do it from my place. You don't have to go anywhere. Just do it in here. You have the room, just build your own business here. Like a really nice person.
Yeah.
But then one day I just got so busy with the lab that I rented a space in Brooklyn in an area called Polish Town, you know, like Greenpoint.
Yeah. Polish Connection.
Yeah, so I started working there a night. During the day I would be at the in-house lab, a night I would go there. and do the cases. Then we moved out of Brooklyn because I was tired of commuting. I lived on Long Island. And fast forward and now at 28 years later, we build a nice sizable medium lab. with a bunch of graduated from New York City Tech.
Really? So you just grabbed all the good people from the school and said.
I grabbed the good and the bad ones. And even the bad ones, we made them good.
There you go. I love it. That's fantastic.
Yeah.
So Eugene, Eugene Vega.
Sir, yes, sir.
Yeah, how did you get into this mess?
Yeah, well, I kind of fell into it, I think like a lot of people do.
Yeah.
But it was drawn to me, actually my girlfriend at the time was going to, she had signed up for the school program. And she's like, hey, well, you know, I just had moved back from Florida and I was looking to get into something. So she said, oh, you know, I'm gonna go check this program out. why don't you come with me? And I didn't really have any other plans that summer when she mentioned that I was doing demolition for a company. And so, yeah, I jumped on. We both attended the school. We're married now, but right out of school, I got an offer. Actually, the offer was made to my wife, Roxanna, to come in and meet Roberto. And she already had a job. She was working in the dental office that had a small lab. And she's like, this job was offered to me. Why don't you go check it out? Because she was already set. So yeah, I went and visited Roberto in Garden City when it was maybe like a four-man lab. Two rooms.
Four or five, yeah.
And yeah, we hit it off and... That was that. I mean, no.
Was he one of the good ones or bad ones, Roberto?
No, it's interviews. He's the guy. He's the guy that is taking us to where we are.
Nice.
He's the phase of synergy.
I wouldn't go that far.
I think so. I mean, okay, people know me, Elvis, but if you ask any of the dentists or dental office who they want to speak with, it's not me.
It's him. It's Eugene.
It's always Eugene. Yes. He's He's the core of this business.
That's awesome. Eugene, how did your girlfriend hear about dental technology?
Well, yeah, she was assisting in an office in Huntington, New York that had that small lab and.
Oh, I see that.
The position that opened up and the doctors asked her if she wanted to go to school for it. So the only school around is the one in Brooklyn. Oh, yeah. So that's where we made our journey to every day for two years.
Let me see if I understand this. Roberto, you went to school before Renata was there.
I didn't go to New York City Tech.
Oh, you didn't?
I did not. I went to a school called New York City Dental Training Center.
Oh.
Does not exist anymore. It was a bunch of dentists and dental technicians that ran this program. It was a little different and much easier than the program that another school.
Sure, okay.
They didn't really train you about much, okay? When you came out of that program, your commitment to the program was 1,000 hour between book work and bench work. Therefore, I cranked as many hours as I could every day just to get out of that program and go to work. All.
You had to do was a thousand hours, doesn't matter. how long it took you?
Correct. So the average was about 15 to 16 months, but if you went, like I used to go nighttime, so I would do 5 to 10, 1030 every day. So 5 1/2 hours, five days a week, and you could have gone on Saturday as well if you had time to go on Saturday. I crunched everything as much as I could and I think I graduated after a year I was there.
Wow.
Yeah.
Do you feel like you learned a lot?
There I didn't learn anything, honestly. Jeez.
I didn't see why it's not around.
Yeah, exactly. But then after that, as your knowledge, a lot of it, experience comes when you start getting into the real world.
Oh, sure.
And I can tell you, I even took like Renata, the master dental program at NYU when Vincent Agaduya was giving it. And even there, you learned a lot. You learned a lot of concept and group functions and all that stuff. But Until you get a real case in your hand, nothing really is reality, Oh, sure.
It all looks great on this perfectly made model for you to try it on.
Try, correct.
Yeah, So Eugene, your girlfriend took you to that school?
Now a wife.
Yeah, she asked for a wife. Yeah, your wife, girlfriend at the time. Did you have any like desire to get into teeth? Did you even know about it? Did you even care about it?
I also had a history in assisting doctors here on Long Island. but never had the opportunity of working in a laboratory. But I found it very interesting. And we checked out the school. And as far as what they had to offer, the fundamentals and all the different levels of expertise, as far as the professors there, that added so much more to the experience.
Yeah, did you meet Renata when you first toured the school?
Yeah, she was my professor. I think we did the first, my first crown and bridge class was with Renata. Yeah.
Do you remember these two, Renata?
Of course I remember. I remember Gene, he was very calm and composed, and I remember his wife, Roxy, just two beautiful students, always, you know, learning, always... he's there. I do remember, of course.
Did you separate them in the class? Like you can't sit together because you're got to focus or...
No, that's very hard to do and I don't get involved in those ****. No, that's not what I'm getting paid for. I'm not getting in the middle of it.
Eugene, what did you think of the school? I mean, did you feel like it was enough to get you out in the workforce, to get you in a lab?
Well, honestly, when you're there, it's a different experience than once you're actually out in the real world. But it does prepare you for a lot of different experiences once you're out in the field. You know, getting to know materials and different processes, it does get you ready for the real world, but there's nothing like being out in the real world and experiencing it under the pressure of a boss that can compare.
Yeah, like Roberto.
Yeah, and that, yeah, Roberto says for every job that that's for.
Every, I mean, you go to law school, you come out of school, you think you know something until you get a job in a law office, then you realize that you really didn't learn anything in school either.
Exactly. Yeah, it's probably true with everyone.
Every program, it gives you the basic, but then you need to step up to the next level. And to the real world, right?
And different labs have different ways of doing things also. So you're always going to have a different experience. But the school, all in all, really does provide everything, all the essential tools you need to get started.
Is there anything you struggled with more than others, or was it all pretty easy?
No, I mean, there were some academic parts of it that were a little bit challenging. Like, personally, I had, I found it challenging with the denture course. setting teeth a certain way. I remember spending a lot of hours in the classroom, on my off time, trying to set the teeth the precise way that the professor was calling for.
There's a correct way to do it? What?
You know, like degrees and things like that. But yeah, I mean, it was all in all, it's like being in an art class all day.
Oh, sure.
That's how it kind of felt, you know, which is something that was always fun.
What do you do now? Mostly fixed? Is your lab completely fixed or do you do removable?
We don't do so much removable. We have moved into that digital phase of milling dentures, I've ocean, from idle plants. Okay, perfect.
So you're not having to set teeth analog anymore?
No, Do you miss it?
No, I'm just kidding.
But we do a lot of, aesthetic cases, Brown and Bridge, Emax, Zirconia, all types of old mouth cases. Yeah, we try to get into everything and especially now with digital, things have just become more easy to reach.
Oh, absolutely. Now, Roberto, you started this lab, right?
Yes.
What year did you did you open?
So when I started, the lab was in 1993, 94.
Okay, so definitely not digital when you started.
No, not at all. As a matter of fact, in one of the lectures, I had to dig to see when I really started doing digital. And I remember that we were playing around with what was considered digital back in the days where Nobel BioCare and Lava System came out, that you were at the little Pico scanner and...
Yeah.
Right. So if that was considered digital, then I started in the year 2000, 98 and 97. But I think that when we really could consider ourselves digital was around 2005. In 2015, when we really decided to start taking digital impressions and 3D printing and et cetera, et cetera. So we're about 11 years into it now.
Did you embrace the digital part of it pretty well, or did you kind of fight it for a while since you've been doing it for so long?
Good question. So I think that even today, we're still fighting it a little bit, right? Interesting, yeah. And I'll tell you why. As Eugene mentioned earlier, there is... different level of dentistry that could be done out there. And we're not the best, but we're not the worst. And what we do is we set certain standards and certain goals. So each technician works under a microscope, 10X modifications. When you have that, you always could find things that are not ideal on a 3D printed dye versus a beautiful Fuji Rock dye poured in a beautiful impression. So even today, we're still, quote unquote, kind of fighting the quality and the precision of digital. And just this week alone, I bought another printer that prints in 25 microns now, just because I won that position in the lab. Therefore, we embraced it. Yes, if we didn't, we would be out of business completely. Do we... Are always 100% happy with the outcome of a digital scan on a digital byte? No, like I'll give you an example of a digital model and a prep on #8, and you gotta mimic that #8 to #9 now. I haven't found yet a printer that's gonna give me all that texture characterization on the facial aesthetic part of the tattooed. That I can mimic.
Oh, yeah, It's gonna be very smooth compared to what it really is. Yeah.
Correct. So, you know, sometimes you gotta look at the photographs and you gotta try to mimic now your textures and your line angles according to the photograph, because the model is not super clean and super precise and characteristic of the tooth, right? So therefore we're still fighting it, but we are as digital as any other laboratory could be, right? Well, We'll do a splint in 3D printing, we'll do prototypes, we'll print them, we mill everything, almost everything, even if we have to press a case, we are still designing it, digitalize the case, and then design and mill wax, re-line wax on the dies and press them, but... Each case, even if it's an impression, gets digitalized.
Oh, you scan the impressions?
I scan the impressions. I scan even a model. So if I get an impression and I pour that impression, I will then scan that model.
Sure.
So everything gets digitalized.
What is this 25 micron printer? I'm very interested in this. I have not heard this.
It's the new Asiga.
Oh, really? Wow.
Asiga 50, I believe it's called. We just got it. We just. actually got trained this morning on it.
This morning, wow. How long does it take to print a model at 25 microns?
Two hours.
Oh my God.
But you see, this is Elvis, this is where I think, you know, our team here at Synergy is very good at it. If you have a case now where you have, I don't know, 10 veneers and you want to do those veneers on wax and press it, So who cares that it takes 2 hours? It's 10 veneers. No, yeah. Right? Let the printer work overnight for you. know, like you just have to schedule certain things. I know everything is a crunch time. Let's get this done, let's get this done. We all need to be productive at the end of the day. But if you have a 10 unit case that you're charging what we charge, I think 2 hours is really not a lot.
Yeah, and so much of digital workflow and labs is put towards making it faster when some of it needs to be... be done for better.
Well, if you work with clients like our clients, they're demanding.
Yeah.
They're demanding. They're sending us really good impressions, photographs of pre-op, post-op, what the patient wants to be, videos. You know, you can't just push that out. I mean, obviously, if I was charging less, I would have done the same thing as everybody else. Therefore, we have other printers. We have 4 printers total, and we print models at 40 microns. We print some stuff at 30 microns, but I save this printer specifically as to print all my dyes for the wax so that when I have the very picky prosthodontist or general dentist that wants a high precision crown, I can still do it.
It's kind of amazing, really, when you think about it. When you opened your lab, was it called Synergy?
It was not called Synergy.
I was going to say, that was a different term in the 90s.
Yes. And that term was, you know, I went back to my roots in Italy where everyone would call their business with their name. They personalize everything in Italy, right? So there's the George Armani, the Emporio Armani, and mine was Roberto Rossi Dental Studio. which had a beautiful logo on it, which people still want it now, the Coliseum, and the part of the Coliseum that didn't have the walls, I put the teeth up.
That sounds really familiar. I think I've seen this.
It was pretty popular. Everybody wanted to steal it from me. I almost patented it.
Wow, that sounds so, I wonder where I would have seen it. Interesting.
Yeah, it's pretty interesting, yeah. But no, Synergy, Synergy, I think, up in about 15 or so, G, right, 15 or 16 years ago, when the lab went from two men, three men, four-man lab, and then all of a sudden, my account is like, Well, it's time you incorporate this business, you know, you're not a... You're not a mom and pop anymore, so what are you doing? And in our lab, there was always this discussion, why can dentists synergize with us? Why can this be a synergy? Why they're always right and we're always wrong and blah, blah, blah, blah. So one day with one of the technicians that was working with us, we said, you know, we should call the lab synergy. That's where the name came up.
And now you mention that Eugene is the face of Synergy.
Yeah, well, I think him and I, right, let's put it this way.
It's more Roberto though. He's the one that plays out there. I'm more like behind the scenes, you know, just making sure everything is running as smooth as we can have it.
I think most labs have this dynamic. There's somebody that is, I'm not going to say loud, but louder, and more FaceTime with the doctors and is able to, speak on everything. And then there's someone behind the scenes actually getting everything done.
That's true, that's true. And I enjoy doing it once in a while. Sometimes I say, Gene, why don't you go out to dinner with this dentist tonight? And he's like, no, that's okay. I go home to my wife and the kids and I'm like, well, I want to do the same thing. So some lab, right, maybe not the size that we are, but lab pretty much on our side, he always says, There's at least one or two or three people, one that controls the floor, one that controls the office, and the other one that is out. What's the word? The mingling and finding dining and whining people, right? So in here, Gene does floor and the office, and I do the outside and the QC and some cases here and there, not a lot. I don't do much anymore. I don't have time, but a mouse planning, what case planning, right? Case planning, designing, because, as I said, we have 3 designers, and then we have 3 ceramists, and it's already difficult just even to control that, right? Then we have sure the whole agnostic walks up department for us is really big. Each case gets a diagnostic wax-up, gets party indexes for temporalization,
and you have a team that just does diagnostic wax-ups all day.
I have a designer that pretty much does all day long diagnostic wax-up designs, wow, and PMMA designs all day long.
Wow. And then eventually those turn into finals and you use those same designs. Yeah. That's incredible.
Yeah.
So you use pretty much the same designs. There's some changes.
Sure.
Then the design, if it's a combination case, goes into, when I say combination case, it's implant and teat. And it goes into a different designer, which has a little more experience in designing. And then the cases go to, pretty much there's a lot of master technicians in this office. Therefore, a large case like that can only go to two people, that's it. And so they're constantly all day long working on large cases. And then we have two or three other people that do just all the smaller stuff, but to a very nice level. I mean, there are days that I'm not happy, but... I see a lot of times I'm happy with the results and I'm happy with the outcome of every single tooth.
Eugene, what exactly do you do? Do you do the designs?
I don't take any credit for the designs or anything like that. What I do is basically manage what comes in, what goes out. out and everything pretty much in between as far as what the technicians need, implant parts, things of that nature, QCing, just making sure that everybody's, able to do what they need to do and have what they need
and, workflow management, yeah.
Workflow management, yeah. Lab coordinator.
Was it hard to kick back QC to a master dental technician from someone that's not? Was it hard for you to say, look at this?
Well, everyone is a little different, right? I'm going to answer that for him. He just pointed at me. He's like, that's your question. But it's hard to say. So there's some technicians that take it a little easier and some of them that don't. So I find ways to make them understand what's wrong with the case and not really criticize, but say, you know, I think it would look better this way. And because I'm on the outside a lot, I see a lot of insertion. I get hired to go and insert clowns in dental offices in large cases. So when I go there and I see the The teeth on the model, and then I see it in the mouth. I take a lot of photographs and I bring it back here and I say, Guys, you see this? If we would have changed this, maybe it would have looked better, or you see that change we made? Look how great it looks now, right?
Yeah, you gotta give them both feedbacks, correct?
Yeah. So I think that it, as I said, some people are always, they come in every day with an empty glass and they fill it back up. Some of them, they're filled to the rim, they can't take it anymore. And I blame myself for, I sometimes hate this job just because I cannot be happy. I'm never happy with the results. I can always be better. But you know, it's some fortune. the nature of this job, right? Because if you don't improve every day, then you stagnate and you remain at a level where somebody else is going right by you and taking all your clients.
Yeah.
Therefore, I don't like to plateau in a certain level. I like always to raise the quality. And when the quality is raised and I feel good about it, then I'll raise my prices too.
Interesting. That's a lot to live up to, Eugene, never making Roberto happy. If my boss said that to me, I'd be a little worried.
Yeah, but he knows how I work. He knows it too. And he likes the fact that we're pushing the envelope every day. I know it's a lot of stress on him and me and a lot of the staff members, but at the end, we're here for a reason, right? We just don't want to be a tooth maker.
We're trying to push this family along.
Exactly.
I love it. I love it. Renata, how much of this do you think he learned in school? I mean, he's talking about using 10x magnifiers and everything. Do you use those in the school?
Of course we do. Maybe not 10x, but we do use magnifiers. There are certain things that are not available to us simply because of the cost.
Sure.
But I have to say that My experience with Roberto in his lab definitely elevated my understanding of dental technology, and I started in the production lab and then slowly graduated working in the labs that are more quality-oriented, and I was very happy in the quality-oriented labs, and such is Roberto's lab, and I'm so glad to see that. He never budged on the quality of the product and that he's taking his people in that direction.
So when did you work there? I mean, this is before the school, obviously, right?
So I remember I was pregnant when I worked there and my daughter is 24 years old, so I had to be somewhere there. Yes. But the beautiful memory that I have from Roberto's lab was that his wife was also pregnant with their second son and coming to work and having big belly and swollen legs. And Roberto was always understanding. He would put a little, you know, stool under my legs because they were swollen. I mean, he was a wonderful boss. And then we had the Italian deli next door. And of course, he would buy us this wonderful Italian lunch. That's something I've always missed.
You can always come. We'll do it again. We still do it. We still do it. We'll still do it in the end of the lab.
We still do it. Oh my goodness. I'm definitely coming for that lunch. We still
do it every, at least what, this week, two times, right? Yeah. Two times this week. And we always try, we used to have until not too long ago, for your record, we had a lady that cooked for us every day.
For the lab?
For the lab, for the whole lab. Every day somebody came in and cooked for us.
And that was just like a perk of working there.
That's one of the perks that is working in here. Yeah. I know.
Listen, that's why he keeps his employees there. That's how he bribes them. That's it, Roberto. It's very smart.
Anything that make the work environment a little better. Remember at the beginning of this conversation, Elvis, I said that... Every day I went to work for my uncle, that day felt like a month.
Yeah.
Now I come to work here and trust me, there are days where it's very stressful. Weeks are very stressful.
Yeah.
But I come here on a Monday and all of a sudden I turn around and it's Friday again.
Yeah.
My days are becoming... hours. And I mean, it's not fun anymore because I'm getting older by the day. But it is when you do something and you enjoy it. And I hope everybody else that in here that are here are enjoying it as much as me. I could tell you as a laboratory founder, there's people here that have been with me for 25 years. When Renata left, Renata was replaced with this guy named Oscar, also that graduated the school.
Yeah.
Oscar's still here.
Is that the Oscar we had on the podcast?
No, I wanted him to be on a podcast, but he's a little shy, Oscar. But he's right. So 25 years and he's still here and he still enjoys to come to work. Eugene is here.
That's because you get the free lunch. That's it. Right.
That's you. That's you. if it's all about the launch, it's really not a big deal, right? if you think about it, with 100, 100 and something dollars a day, you could feed the whole lab. It's not too bad.
No, I come for the teeth, I stay for the food.
Yeah. It's all about.
So when you hired Renata, what'd you hire her to do?
So I hired Renata because Renata wanted to learn ceramics and she wanted to be very good at ceramic. And, you know, it was easier back in those days, it was easier to find and teach somebody how to do ceramic than work with team plants and wax and cast frameworks and feeding them, right? So especially, you know, like to get somebody new from school and say, hey, what here, can you wax and cast this? You would never do that. You wouldn't risk the gold. You wouldn't risk them to get hurt. So I'm like, perfect. She wants to learn ceramic. I'll teach her ceramics, and I'm just going to concentrate on the gold work and the metal. And that's what she was doing when she came in, right? You started with doing some single units and some stuff like that. And before she left, she was just pretty good. She would have been a rock star by now if she stayed with us.
Yeah, that was awesome fun. Definitely.
Did you enjoy doing the ceramics, Renata?
Of course. It was a lot of fun. And doing it to the quality that Roberto expected, you know, was a challenge, but it was great to learn that kind of quality because it made you proud to put a, you know, beautiful tooth in a patient's mouth that actually resembles nature. So I was very happy learning with Roberto.
How many times did he make you redo something?
Oh, probably a zillion times, but. Oh, yeah. But that was part of the job, Sure.
And it was why you were there is when you decided to go back to the school to teach.
Once I had my child and I was becoming a single parent, I needed to make a decision, you know, what's the best for the future of me and my daughter. And that's when I... decided to go back and teach. Yeah.
And what was that process? Like somebody came to you or did you apply or how did you end up at the school? I'm sure we talked about this eight years ago, but I don't remember.
No, the City Tech, it's a pretty close-knit family. So when we meet in Chicago or when we meet in New York-based trade shows, you see a lot of familiar faces.
Oh, sure.
One of those shows in Tarotown, Professor Romanos came to a bunch of us graduates and we were just hanging out and said that he's looking for people to teach. And I was thinking of who do I know who can teach? And then I came home and I thought, why not me? So then I called him. I found out what's needed and I started the process.
Wow. And you've been doing that for how long now?
2004, so that's 22 years.
Wow.
It's been a while.
How much has this program changed in 22 years? I can only imagine.
Yeah, it has changed. We got a new building that made a big difference. But also, you know, transitioning from monologue to digital. Seeing all that, like when I worked with Roberto, we didn't have anything digital other than the porcelain furnaces, right? Or I remember you had a casting that was...
Yeah, the vacuum caster.
Induction casting. So that was fun. But otherwise, you know, seeing that transition and seeing different generations of students coming through was a big change. Absolutely.
What's the school like now? How is the school doing? Are we up every year we get a check-in.
Yeah, school is doing awesome. We have capacity for 60 students, accepting 60 students a year. So we always fill that capacity for the last four or five years, and we have waiting lists. So we did accept at 60 students last year, and we had 15 students on the waiting list, out of which three did not get in. So we had, this was wonderful. And we have these waiting lists, thank goodness, for the last three, four years. And so we graduated last year about 30 students and the prior year 31 students. And of course you're gonna have some attrition, right? So right now we have between first and second year about 104 students.
Wow.
And I was trying to figure out how many students graduated since I started working. So, looking at about 30 to 40 students a year, about 600 to 800 students for the twenty-two years, yeah.
And you taught all of them like morphology, right?
Well, morphology was part of it, but crown and bridge. Yeah. fixed prosthodontics.
Roberto, do you take some credit for that since she learned from you first?
Yes, of course.
Passes down.
I'm not sure, but I think. I think we all leave an impression of some type of impression. It could be a good one, it could be a bad one. But if there's certain things that I have embedded or made or believe in that were good, I'm sure she put it into play in school. And if they were not applicable, she would not have used it. So, you know, but there is certainly a huge change in the industry. It's not what it used to be. Therefore, from the The workflow to the way dentists expect that things now are totally different. And I'm not saying in a negative way. You know, like I speak sometimes with, we have a technician here that is very, very particular with the way he wants to work and the way he wants to do things. And he's an amazing, talented technician. And yesterday I was telling him that, please don't worry, just do what I'm telling you, the dentist will be okay with it. And he's like, No, no, but I think you should ask the dentist. I said, But trust me, he will go with whatever I say, which twenty-five years ago that would have never happened, right? And just to make him feel good, I texted the doctors and I said, Hey, doc, you know we have this discrepancy with this case, and I was thinking of doing this and this and this. And he responds, you are the master. Do whatever you think is right. And I showed this to him, right? And I said, you see this from being an high school dropout, called an high school dropout. Now I'm called the master. So, yeah.
Bravo.
Things have changed in a positive way, meaning there's a lot more respect for dental technicians today than there were 30 years ago when I started. There's a lot of positive changes. One is that one that we're getting a lot more recognition. Now, and dentists are listening to our approach in a synergistic approach, I would call it. there's that, and there is it's so much easier now. I have two new students from the program here with me, and I just tell them all the time, this is not what it used to be. you're sitting in here now and I'm giving you all the beautiful bench, ergonomic benches where you sit, you have a suction incorporated, light, microscope, a screen, iPad, you name it. You have everything available for you to perform one of the most amazing jobs. I didn't have any of that.
No.
We didn't have computer, we didn't have photographs, we didn't have suctions.
You didn't even have good air quality. No, zero.
Light, light, where's light, light? I mean, windows? I didn't even know what that was. Yeah. So for, the sake of what's going on in the industry now, I think we have done a 360 in the last 10 years.
Yeah. Do you explain that to the students, Renata? about how it used to be compared to what they're going to see when they get out into the real world.
Well, of course we do. And we also bring industry professionals who explain that to students and tell them how it was and how it is. And in fact, this is a good time for me to mention that Roberto is coming on April 30th to our school. And if anybody in New York area wants to come and come and see his lecture, give me a call or e-mail and we can arrange that. But Roberto is coming and he's going to be talking to our students, motivating them and telling them about where the industry is. and where it stands. And we really appreciate his time to come to City Tech and give back.
Is it really just a big recruitment visit there?
No, he hasn't done it in a long time. He's been here. He's been there in a long time, but he called me like a month ago and he's like, I really want to come and motivate the students. It's not about recruiting. It's really more about motivating them and telling them what a great profession this is. from that point of view.
Well how does one do that Roberto?
Well I'll I'll tell you you know there there's unfortunately a lot of discouragement once you come out of the program and you go into the workplace and you walk into I I don't know Elvis where are you in in the laboratory world what state or or or what requirements are but you could just get um you know the tire shop next door get one of their The person there and tell them, Open up a lab, and they could open up a lab tomorrow.
I always say my mom, who has no idea what any of this is, could open up a lab, correct.
Yeah, so to me, there's laboratories that should not be laboratories today, and some of these students... Unfortunately, ended up in some of these labs where you walk in, you have, there's no welcoming. There's just come here, sit down, show me what you got, blah, blah, blah. And they get discouraged and they leave. Sure. Also, the pay structure, it's very tough at the beginning, right? Because with all the work that they do at school, even though they did that for two years, my motto, I tell every single person, I say, okay, so what did you do for two years? Oh, I went to school every day. This and that. Okay, so what did it cost you to school about? Eight 1000 a year, give or take, that's so you paid to learn, right? They're like, Yes, okay, now I'm gonna pay you to teach you, so don't expect me to pay you $1000 a day, so stay with me, stick with me for a month or two, show me what you got. And I can tell you that you're going to be making this much in six months. You're going to make this much in a year. Depends on your ability in anything you do, right? Your ability depends on how quick you learn certain things. And unfortunately, I would say that 50% of the students that graduate, Renata, correct me if I'm wrong, they go into the field, but they drop after a month or two.
Yeah, that's about right.
They get discouraged, they drop. So I want to tell them that like anything else, any job in the world, you go to McDonald's, they make you flip burgers first, right? Then maybe they'll put you on the window, then maybe you'll become a manager, but it doesn't happen the first day.
The problem is, McDonald's will hire you and pay you more that first day. That's what people are running into. Correct.
Yeah, and that's the problem. I want them to understand that you just paid for two years to teach, to learn something. Give it at least another six months, give it at least another year, another year that you're not paying and you are being retrained, because each laboratory trains people differently. Yep, therefore, even if the standard that Renata is teaching at the school is at level 5. They can go to a laboratory tomorrow and they want them to work on level 3 or a laboratory where they want you to work or be at level 8. Therefore, it's very difficult to just try it out for three months and then say, this is not for me. You're not giving it enough time.
Yeah, you can make a lot of money. It just takes time. It takes work. And you got to also be at the right place.
Yes.
You could be the greatest person in the world and give the 110% every day, but it's also about being appreciated and compensated, I guess.
Right.
It's not, it's not always easy. And we just, well, I noticed something with someone that we just picked up from the school. They come to the lab, they want to get their hands on to everything.
Yeah.
You know, pick up as much as they can, but they're, you know, They're working alongside some vets, some people with some skin in the game already. So to live up to those expectations, it's not easy. And trying to get to that level, it takes time. There's no way around it. But like what you were saying, it takes the right place, the right boss. the right mentor to help them along. But I can see a lot of people getting discouraged when they come into the field and they see kind of what they're up against.
Yeah, and I think in order for... our industry to survive, we need to change that. Not how it's done, just the mentality of it. I mean, Eugene, this was your first job out of the school, right?
I worked in like some not so nice labs that only lasted, I would say one of them only lasted a month. Another one, I was out there in like a week. But they were just, yeah, like the environment there.
You can speak on this thing. Yeah, it's all, it's a lot of it is about where you go. I mean, yeah.
This dirty warehouse kind of industrial park area that just, yeah, it wasn't for me. And coming here, it was, well, where we started, where I started was in Garden City. It was just, it was like a breath of fresh air.
Small, small boutique, but very small. And now again, we grew out of this one too. We gotta make a move again.
You're moving again.
We have to. We have to.
So how many technicians are you up to?
14, I believe. 14.
I love it when they have to stop and count and think about it. I think it's great.
Because we don't do the payroll, so we don't know. I'm sure if you would ask that to our bookkeeper, she would know right away. Oh, yeah. Exactly.
Good point.
I think we're about 14, 15 part-time. So it's a guy or two part-time, but I'm telling you, only maybe 2 technicians that are new. The rest are all very well-seasoned and talented technicians and designers and et cetera.
Since you look for such a level of technician, even when they come out of the school, what are you really interviewing for? I mean, you're not having them carve a tooth or something, are you?
No, just personality.
That's what I was thinking, that you could just tell by these people coming in that they are gonna be the ones to run with it.
Personality, yeah. Then there is some good personality, then there is some personality that are questionable, but you say, you know what, maybe... Let's just put them in this corner, let's put them in this corner, let's see them what they need to do, and I mean, again, as I said earlier, you could really become a superb down technician. In two years, if you want to, what I tell them all the time, every time they come in, I say, Okay, listen, this is going to be overwhelming for you, so I'm gonna give you a little bit every day, but I'm gonna give you homework too to take home. They're like, Oh, really? Yeah, I said, YouTube, YouTube videos, you're gonna go home and you're gonna watch an Exocad tutorial 101. You're gonna do this and you're gonna do that, and tomorrow I'm gonna make you try it. Then they come the next day, did you watch it? Oh, I don't have time. Well, that already tells me that you didn't do your homework.
Yeah.
So, you know, what level? Now, if you start at $22 an hour for me, right, in your, let's say, and I give you homework and you don't do your homework, you think Renata's gonna give you an A, or she's gonna give you a C. Yeah. Right? So that same thing with me. I, you know, like I throw... little bonuses here and there, right? And I see it. Like somebody last week did a really beautiful case and I went up to him. I said, this is really nice. This is gorgeous. He goes, oh, thank you. Thank you. I said, this, got you a bonus. Right? And now the payroll up. And yesterday he got a bonus and he thanked me. He goes, thank you. This is really nice. Thank you. But why? Because for me, and I don't want to sound arrogant, but 300 bucks, 500 bucks for the week, it's not a big deal. But a nice case is a big deal. That nice case is going to make the patient epi, the dentist epi, the dental hygienist, et cetera, that see the work, like, oh wow, Synergy does amazing work, right? And just, that's your publicity. I don't advertise.
100%.
Therefore, I'd rather do that, but if you don't give me... and you don't show me that you really care about my business, you're not getting a bonus. You're not even getting a raise. You know what I mean?
Yeah, I love the fact that, you know, if someone wants to excel in their career, even outside a lab, you gotta put in a little extra.
That's right.
When you're not just at work or clocked in or whatever you want to say. I mean, I've had people I've worked with and they swear they don't do anything unless they're on the clock and getting paid. To me, I just don't understand it. I mean, just 15 minutes in the evening, just doing a little bit of research or whatever, it adds up and it really shows and it helps you grow. as a technician.
We just try to find the people with the best work ethic. Yeah. That's all. That's all we could look for, really.
Now, today, I had launched with the ex-technician that was here that used to work here and now is not working here anymore, but he comes and say hello and he wanted to take me out to launch. And the father was with him too. The father works for us as well. And the father understood something the other day that I said, That the phone is what's destroying a lot of the workflow around here, right? That people get distracted on the phone too much. They get phone calls while they design, they're on the phone while they're designing, et cetera, et cetera. So he thought I was getting also upset with him because he's always on the phone, but he's working. And I said to him today at launch, I said, it's not that you're on the phone. I get it. You spend 8, 9 hours here every day. You have to get a phone call. You have to make a phone call. You gotta do it. I mean, you got a life and a family, right? Yeah, sure. The most important thing is that when you're done with the case, that the case is done properly and you follow the prescription and you did the best that you could with the case. I don't care that you're on the phone. I don't care that you're watching a movie on my iPad while you're working. As long as that is done right, it's when it's not done right and you read the prescription and you're on the phone that then I'm getting upset. Yeah. Right? But because of his English lack of understanding, he didn't understand that. So he was worried and he made the song come in so that he could translate it to me today alone. Right? So just to tell you, know, the thing, and this is a man that... He's the first one here and the last one to leave. He wants to do the right thing for us, But.
He was worried you're going to take away his phone.
I think he was worried that, you know, I was upset that. Yeah, about that.
So how did he win you over? He bought you lunch. We're back to the lunch thing.
He bought the whole lab lunch. Oh, there you go.
Nice.
Yeah.
I think we've uncovered the secret. Successful lab, buy your employees lunch. That easy. That's it.
That's it.
Everybody will work hard.
Yes, agreed.
So Renata, how many are graduating this year?
Well, probably around 30 to 40 again.
Nice.
Hopefully more. But But listening to Roberto speak about his employees and the way the profession works, we can tell the students all day long that they're coming into the field with the knowledge, with the language, but without the experience. And so in order for them to have it in their hands and to be able to produce the work that makes money for the lab, it's gonna take some more time with the experience. But even though we tell them in every single class and every single professor, it's so important that someone like Roberto, anybody from the industry comes and tells them and they hear it differently. So I'm just so, glad that we have these speakers and Professor Andrescu, she brings the prosthodontist, she brings manufacturers like Stroman and others and some lab owners into the classroom and lets the student hear it from them. So we always appreciate the support from the industry for that reason, because the students do gain a different perspective when they hear it.
I love it. What's next for you guys over there at Synergy, other than move-in, and the new printer that only prints 25 micron models?
Totally. Only.
What else is new? Anything exciting?
Wow. I really would love to have a bigger space, to have a little ping pong table. Football table priorities, just more space would be really, really great.
Yeah, nice.
In the lab here, we do a lot of consultations patients come in for consults, cool, yeah, and we do a lot of custom colors. And I see, on an average, we see five patients a week, right? wow, yeah, five to six patients a week. It depends some weeks more than others, but I can tell you that it's really cramped now in one little office where Eugene is trying to do his job, and I come in and I sit the patient down, taking photographs, and... Discussing what would be best for her in regards to not the clinical aspect, but how many restoration? Are we doing 4? Are we doing 8? Are we doing 10? Let me do, you know, a diagnostic mock-up on you. Let's try with 10. You could always cut back to three or let's try with three. We could always go to seven. And I think that it would be nice if we could have a nice room where I could sit down and. and have all the photo and flashes set up. And so that's what really my goal is this year going to 2027. I want to be in a bigger place and have all the... the luxury that I had in here when I first moved in. We were just four or five of us.
Yeah. Well, it's a good problem to have, right?
I think so. I think so. Yeah.
Awesome. Well, Roberto, Eugene, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I love hearing your story. It sounds like you're doing some amazing things.
Thank you.
Thank you. And of course, Renata, as always, sorry I missed this anniversary, but thank you again.
I miss anything for you and Barb.
Yeah, I appreciate it. I don't know what What happened to Barb? You're supposed to show up, but whatever. Thank you so much.
You're very welcome.
Yeah, thank you. And hopefully we'll see you all at a show sometime.
Yeah, we'll do that.
Thank you. And congratulations on your eighth year.
Oh, yeah, thank you.
Wonderful. Thank you so much for all you guys do.
Yeah, you're all to blame, Renata. You started this whole thing.
I don't mean I'm fine with that. I'll take it for another eight years or so.
There you go. Thanks, everybody. Have a good weekend.
Okay, Elvis. Take care. Bye. Thank you. Renata Ridicio.
Thank you. Bye.
A huge thanks to Roberto, Eugene, and Renata. I love you so much for coming on our podcast. I'm actually really super sorry that I missed it. I actually had to put my very first animal to sleep that day and kind of blanked out. I'm really sorry that I missed it, but it was really great to hear that the school is doing great and at capacity even has a waiting list, which as you and I know, Elvis, that's pretty amazing nowadays because those are struggling. It's also amazing what Roberto has created at Synergy and has a culture that encourages employees to care. I love that too. And it's amazing what a little lunch can do the moose morale. By the way, I'm having a barbecue this Thursday. So thanks again, buddy.
A barbecue on Thursday.
Yes, we're grilling out. Night Dental. I'm bringing all that love back, yes.
I love it. All right, everybody, live but not live from Spain. We will talk to you next week. Have a great one. Have a good one.
Bye. Enjoy your loved ones. No, I'm just with you. Let's go.
All right.
Good.
The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.