Hello, Voices from the Bench community. John Wilson here, and I wanted to share some news about the evolution of the Programill lineup. Most importantly, Ivaclair's new Programill 7. What stands out right away is the reduced air consumption this mill requires, but what you'll notice first is that impressive new touchscreen. For us, the biggest advantage has been increased spindle power. You know, my laboratory's known for these larger cases with complex geometries, and I can tell you, That extra power really makes a difference. Next time you see your Ivaclair representative, be sure to ask about the Program 07 and tell them John Wilson sent you. Thank you.
All right, Barb, we've officially made it to Mallorca for Exocad Insights.
Yes, I know. Somehow we're going to power through it, Elvis.
I know it's tough, but as promised, I finally tracked him down. Felix, how are you?
I'm great, I'm great. Hey guys, I'm really happy to finally connect.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, you're here as an Exocad dealer. What is your take on the meeting so far?
Honestly, it's been great. Great turnout, a lot of familiar faces. Always nice to see what Exocad is working on. Yeah, no doubt. We're very excited to bring this new features to our customers.
Is there something that stood out to you?
Well, one for sure is the Exocad Hub. It's a new cloud-based service and also really excited to see that the AI services are not on the DentalDB. We're still digging into the details, but as you can tell, there's a lot of things that still need to be worked on. We'll definitely use it in our milling center when it's ready.
Nice. That's really great. It sounds like a common rollout strategy for Imagine. Would you agree with that?
Yeah, for sure. Any of these new products that come out, especially from Exocad, we like to use them in our own production facility before we release them. Then for our support team, It's much easier to support our customers, and for ourselves to use those features as well, it's very beneficial to them.
That totally makes sense. So, for you, what's the real value of being here? Other than the beach being across the street.
Other than being in Mallorca.
Yeah, I mean, obviously it's great to see everyone in person, especially our partners. We don't really usually get to have conversations with them, so it's good to see them without the e-mail or video calls.
Oh, for sure.
So Elvis and I totally agree. We do love face-to-face. Love these meetings.
Yeah, for sure, for sure. It's good to take a step back for a minute, see what's going on, and Not just do the day-to-day stuff that you do at work.
Yeah, plus it's not too bad of a place to do it, Anne.
Yeah, not bad at all. Not bad at all.
All right, let's get back to it.
All right, man. It's good to see you, Felix. I'm really looking forward to getting you on our full episode interview.
Here in the next couple weeks.
One hour, one hour. Yep, yep, yep. I appreciate, guys. I'm looking forward to it as well.
Thank you. Enjoy Mallorca.
Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info at voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 430 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
My name's world traveler Barbara.
Yeah, what's going on, Barb? We were going to record earlier and you're like, I'm still at the airport.
Yeah, you don't even want to know.
Oh, geez.
It's way too long. Oh my gosh, my flight canceled at 10:30 last night, had to switch airlines, switch airports, find a hotel, And all at 11 P.m.
You didn't get home until 3 o'clock the next day.
Yeah, so all the flights were booked. Everything going to Tampa was booked because all the American Airlines were canceled. Yeah, it was interesting, let me tell you.
Weather.
But I'm back. I think it was that tropical storm or that storm that was in the Gulf and then it moved north. So it was right over. all of the region that I had to travel to. I was in Dallas.
So you're doing a dental related thing, weren't you?
What else do I do, Elvis?
True that. I just told someone I think it's been three years since I've had a vacation that wasn't dental related.
Exactly. Yeah. Moving on. Moving on.
Let's go. Yeah. So this week, we're still working through all those fantastic conversations that we got at the Exocad Insights 2026. Yo, Barb. I long to be back that close to the beaches. Good food, the amazing company. really the only bad thing about Exocad Insights is it only happens every other two years.
I would agree.
I don't know. But that's what makes these conversations so special. Because these are all people we probably never would have met. or had the opportunity to hear their stories. First up is a professor at the University of Michigan who just stepped off stage when we got to talk to him. I'm not even going to try his first name. Good. I'm going to just say Dr. Lau. Dr. Lau talks about learning exocad from a technician, smart place to learn it from.
You know it.
Implementing it into the school's classrooms and why he loves the ability for collaboration with the software.
Then we meet Allison Bravo from Brazil Allison has a wonderful story of working in a restaurant so crazy at the age of 15 When a lab owner noticed how hard he was working. Do you think us technicians work hard? Yes That got him into the industry, but it was his passion got him to teach himself Exocad and now he is doing remote designs for dentists and has Aspirations to teach others.
And then we're gonna wrap up the episode with a visit with one of our our favorite companies, Ivoclar. Tobias Specht is no stranger to the podcast, and it's always great to get caught up with all things Ivoclar. But this time is super exciting. Tobias talks about the three thrilling new innovations from Ivoclar that had the whole conference talking.
True that.
So join us as we talk to Dr. Lau, Allison Bravo, and Tobias Specht. Voices from the bench. The interview. God forbid they need to see our pretty faces.
Thank you.
All right. So I'm Barbara and this is Elvis.
Nice to meet you.
Elvis.
Elvis.
Elvis.
I'm Barbara. Barbara. Okay, nice to meet you.
Is it pronounced Lau? Lua. Lua.
Yeah, Lua.
Oh, I was really wrong. So was I. Doctor Lua.
Doctor Lua.
Luo. Awesome. Well, here we are at Exocad Insights 2026. Someone that just came off the stage.
Yeah. Speaking.
Dr. Luo.
Dr. Luo.
Luo. How do you say your full name?
My full name is pronounced like Zhi Chang Luo.
Zhi Chang Luo.
Okay, nice.
So tell us about yourself. You're a clinician.
Yeah, actually, right now I have been working as a clinical faculty member at the University of Michigan.
Michigan, high five. I was born in Detroit. All right. Oh, really? Yes. I was born in Detroit? Yep.
So we're very close. All right. Yeah, I live in Ann Arbor.
Nice.
Oh, wow. Oh, I love that. Okay. So what brought you to Insight?
Because I was invited as a speaker to the... Insights 2026. So I feel very honored to be here. Yeah.
What did you speak about?
What did you speak on? Yes.
Like my topic is 360 degree approach. How to use data acquisition to refine our dental care. Yeah. It's a fully digital workflow. Wow.
How did you get into it? Like the digital part of it, being a clinician? Was it just something that interests you?
Yeah, exactly. I worked with the digital dentistry around 2019. I was very interested in all kinds of digital technologies at that time. And so I just paid a technician, asked him to teach me how to use the software. Really.
Yeah.
Because, you know, for our condition, it's not very accessible for us, you know, to learn. Yeah, to learn and to use like the digital. digital software at that time, for example, the actual CAD. So I just paid a technician, because a technician is very good at the software. So yeah, and I bought a computer, which is brilliant. And from Hong Kong, then I started learning how to use the software, how to do the digital dentistry. Yeah.
This was all in Hong Kong.
No.
Oh, this was in Michigan.
When I was in China.
Oh, okay.
Actually, yeah. Because it has only been two years since I moved to the US.
Oh, wow.
So in 2019, I was in China.
So what made you move to Michigan?
Okay, you know. A job. Because, yeah, University of Michigan. Yeah, it's the best. It's the number one dental school in the world.
Is it really?
Yeah. So that's why it attracts me to. transfer from China to the US.
That's a big move.
Yeah, I think that's a big move.
How did they hear about you?
Actually, I have a schoolmate when I was studying in an undergraduate dental school in China. So a schoolmate recommended me to the University of Michigan. So they just organized the interview and so yeah.
And they said, you're in.
Yeah.
Wow.
So University of Michigan. So what's your role there?
Currently a clinical instructor, like a clinical scientist. So you're a teacher, instructor? Yeah, in the prosthodontics department. In our everyday life, we just teach the students to do the clinical work. And sometimes I also spend some time doing the research and, you know, like this.
So do you teach them Exocad?
Yeah, because our students in the US, they just bought the student version of ActiveCat. And they really want to know how to use the software. Because right now, our dentistry is stepped into the digital dentistry right now. So many students are very interested in the digital things. They want to learn how to use the digital technologies, how to use the software to do a A lot of kinds, all kinds of things.
So are you seeing it change the way the students are thinking from when you were a student, where they want to learn the software and the technology and be more involved?
Exactly. So when I was a student, I think everything was traditional. Everything was analog. So we learned in a very conventional way to do the dentistry. But right now, everything has changed. So the students have more opportunities to access the digital world. A lot of digital technology is emerging. So for them, I think it's very lucky for them. So they can learn all kinds of digital things and it really shapes how they diagnose and plan and perform their treatment in our everyday dentistry.
So how did you get chosen to speak here. Do you speak other places or is this your first time?
I also speak at other places as well. Okay. And so last year I was invited to speak in Italy. Yeah, another global conference.
Yeah.
But for insights, this is my first time.
Nice.
It's pretty amazing, Yeah. You're in Spain and you're at this amazing meeting and you're lecturing. It's pretty awesome.
Exactly. I feel very honored to be here because Mallorca is a very wonderful place.
You don't always get an opportunity to go to a show in such a beautiful location. Oh yeah. Okay. How far do you take students into Exocad? I mean, do you take them all the way to the point where they can design on their own?
It totally depends on the level of the students. So sometimes the students just has an entry level. So we don't teach them too difficult things. So we just ask them to follow the workflow step by step. So it's going to be very easy and straightforward for them to learn. But if it's for the graduate students, the grad profs, So, they have to learn how to use the software to manage their case, because this is their expertise they have to learn how to use XOCAD, so we will teach them more deeply, and for example, so for me, I will always get our students to do like the virtual patients. to do like the digital smile design, especially in our smile creator. We have a lot of new features. So I think all the students are very interested in like the AI features, AI assisted workflows right now, which is provided by the latest version of our actual CAD, which is very useful. So I think From my perspective, I can offer students some guidance.
Like the tricks or the turnarounds?
And show them how to do some deeper things, not just in a superficial level. Yeah, so it depends.
But you have to keep continuing to learn the software and to make sure that you know it so well. How do you do that? Where do you find the time?
So, actually, I think... What attracts me most to learn the software, to learn the new features, is the motivation. I think because I'm very interested in actual CAD, and actually I've been working with software for many years. So that's why every year I just want to learn the new features, the new function, and especially right now, This is an AI era, so we all want to know what kind of AI function the actual can give us, so yes.
And how good, right? How good it is, how close?
Because I think I have a very strong motivation to learn it, that's why... I just want to keep up with the latest version.
Oh yeah.
How often do students, which are younger kids, come in and teach you something on Exocad? Does it ever happen because they're so young and they can move around?
Well, actually, I think, yeah, for sure. They definitely teach me a lot. Because they always keep asking you a lot of questions.
Pushing, pushing, pushing.
Pushing you to learn more. Sometimes the questions are very difficult, I cannot answer, so I just want to stay connected with some experts in the extra CAD area and ask them how to handle those questions. Maybe, yeah, I think in this way I can make a lot of improvements on my own, yeah.
I bet you help Exocad get better too by the students asking you difficult questions also. And they're like, wow, I never thought of that. That's a great idea.
Exactly, Because this software is very flexible and open. So actually you can do whatever you want. There's no fixed workflow to follow. Sometimes they always inspire me to find the best solution. But you know, yeah, so that's why I always want to find some innovative way to handle like the problems, the new cases. Yeah, yeah.
Is this common with most colleges or is it specific to Michigan teaching Exocad and the course?
It totally depends because not every faculty member can teach extra cash. Yeah, for sure, because it's not that accessible. Sometimes the software is a little expensive, and so it's a little hard for them to learn how to use the software as well. So different faculty members have different backgrounds. So sometimes, for me, because I'm very interested in digital dentistry, and I have been focusing on this area for many years, so that's why for me, It's not very hard to teach the students to use the software or to do the digital dentistry, but it's not our school's routine to teach the students.
Yeah. Because I live in Indiana, so IU School of Dentistry. I go to a few times, but I've never seen them use Exocad there.
Yeah, exactly. It's not very common, but yeah.
I hope it becomes more common. I mean, it seems like it's a smart move.
Yeah, hopefully, hopefully.
To teach clinicians this aspect of it. Exactly.
So first of all, I think, as you can see, just like what you said, I think, first of all, we have to educate the faculty members. Because as you had, especially the digital technology, like the AI features, AI function, yeah. They are all new to every faculty member. We all are the students, really.
Even for the lab side, it's new for us as well. So it doesn't change.
So everyone is a student. So we have to keep learning the new features, new function, from the latest version. So first of all, I have to make sure the faculty member know how to use the software. Then they know how to... Teach the students to use the software.
Do you guys ever do on some of your prof students live patient? Like have patients come in? Do you guys do that at the university? Like where you physically work on patients?
Yeah. for sure.
So you can actually see it live and on a patient.
That's our daily routine.
Wow.
Yeah. So actually every week we treat a lot of patients. So in clinic. And we provide the guidance to the students and they learn how to manage this case step by step. Sometimes if the student requests a digital solution, then I step in. I will get the students to follow the digital workflow step by step. Maybe sometimes I will take my computer and open the software, show the students how to manage the digital solution in XOCAD. That's crazy.
Interesting.
That's so high level. I can't even believe that you guys are doing that. And you have patients that are more educated that come in and say, I don't want you to take an impression, I want to use a scanner, or I want to go digital.
Yeah, for sure. So the students always want to challenge themselves. They're never satisfied with the current situation. Because at our school, so what we teach students most is still the conventional way, like the take PVS impression, take alternate impression like this. So actually, some students will request the digital solution to handle those problems. And it totally depends. So we don't have a very rigid requirement for the students to follow the digital dentistry. No, we don't have--.
You can go either way, because I mean, that's still the way the world is.
Exactly, exactly.
Do you think they'll ever stop teaching how to take a physical impression?
No, I don't think so. So even though the digital dentistry is developing very fast, but I think we still cannot replace the whole traditional approach in our dentistry. Because they provide us a very standardized approach to verify everything physically. Sometimes if you only have the digital solution, so it's hard for you to verify your planning, your treatment diagnosis, and everything. But with the conventional Analog solution, you can everybody everything.
You got your hands in it, you're touching it, it's all there.
So right now, we use the analog way to confirm our treatment planning, our design, or something like that.
Interesting.
So we just combine those two approaches.
Love that.
And you mentioned you're trying to teach the faculty Exocad? Are they wanting to learn it? Are they fighting it? I mean, this is something that they've done for a while.
You know how much people like change, right? Exactly.
It totally depends, I would say.
Yeah.
Because it varies in different situations. Some people may be interested in digital dentistry. Maybe they want... to get some opportunities to learn. They don't want to learn from me, but sometimes they just won't ask me, Hey, Dr. Luo, where did you learn your digital dentistry? How can I get access to learn how to use the extra card or something like that?
Do you tell them to pay a technician?
Sometimes I just share my experience on how I learned the the software, but that was smart, honestly, 'cause I'm a technician, obviously, so that's why. I think this is a very straightforward approach to learn, sometimes, because we stay connected with our connection, with our technician, so it's very easy for me to communicate with our technician, so I think that's why I just want to, Go directly, pay them, and ask them to teach me how to use the software. And we can cooperate with each other. We can do a case together to do a lot of cooperative work.
Yeah, I love that.
Are you fabricating at the school, too? Do you have mills and all that?
Actually, we have a digital center at University of Michigan. We still send a lot of work outside.
Sure.
Yeah. Sometimes we have a lot of work.
Yeah. I bet. I bet you that Exocad hub is pretty, you're excited about, you'll be able to share information very easily.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Do you use one lab or do you use a couple different labs in the area?
We have a couple different labs. Yeah, you should, for sure. But every lab, you know... It's good at different things.
I was just gonna say, yep, we all have strengths.
Sometimes one lamp is focusing on like fixed. Some lamp I prefer to do the, you know, removable work or something like that.
Yeah. Nice.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
Thank you.
We know you just came off stage and came right to us, and we're very appreciative of it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's great. Good luck to you. We'll see you soon, hopefully.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you. Bye.
So one thing I was thinking about the podcast is should be some video moments because I'd like to see, I like to watch people.
No, Elvis doesn't like video.
No, it's audio only. That's what I like.
It's audio only, baby.
This guy comes in with a camera in my face.
I'm like, no.
We love it. It's been great. We'll see you tomorrow.
Photoshop. Thank you, bro. Photoshop. All right.
What does that mean? Clean me up.
Clean me up, add some hair, smooth out the... All right. Yeah, Exocad Insights 2026. Mallorca, Spain. Mallorca, Spain. I'm in the hotel and a gentleman comes up to me. I think I was walking out of the hotel. I don't know. Somewhere. Elevator. Elevator, yeah. And he's like, hey, I'm from Brazil. I listen to the podcast.
I saw this. First, I listened to your voice.
Oh, you said it because you didn't see it.
I recognized it. I recognized it and looked to his shirt and saw this. Oh, yeah.
Thank you so much. Allison Bravo.
Allison Bravo.
Allison Bravo from Brazil. What part of Brazil? I don't know the area very well.
Actually, it's from the countryside of Brazil. Parana is the state from the south. And it's near of Paraguay. Paraguay from Seth Potter lives there in the podcast.
I like that one. We've got several comments about Seth's interview.
Oh yeah, that was really great. Listening to that, I thought, well, that was really a hero backstory.
Living on a boat.
Yeah, living on a boat.
That was crazy.
That was the best part. Living on a boat.
I was like, wait, what?
Homeschooling, living on a boat, and what a history.
So did you grow up in? In Brazil, and how did you get into that?
Born in Brazil, in Sao Paulo, I was born, and then we moved to the countryside, more countryside than Parana, and then with 11, I went to Parana, and in that age I was 12 years old. Working on a restaurant of my mother. My mother whole life worked with food and restaurant. And I was there.
Food is love.
Yeah. And I was there cleaning dishes. It was at night and was closing. But someone bit the door. It was a glass. It was dark. And I. A little spooked. And I looked. No, he was going to have some food right now. The restaurant is closed. I don't want to work anymore. It's late. But then I went there and opened the door. And it happens that man was the owner of the lab. No way. A laboratory right on the side of the restaurant. And he saw me working.
Wait, the dental lab was next to the restaurant?
We've never heard this story before.
No, this is new.
It was right on the side of the restaurant. So he said, he entered and said, hey, Good night, good evening. I would like to talk to your mother, okay? I'm going to call her. So I called my mother and he went there and he started to talk and that he saw me every day there. Work ethic. Work, right? And he remembered of him because when he was young, when he was 12, 13 years old, he worked also in the restaurant of his father. Interesting. And he was the owner of the lab. And the same name as me. His name was Allison.
You got to be kidding me.
Oh, yeah. And then he made the offer. He said, I want him to work with me to learn. Okay, I'm going to pay him.
Did you have any idea what it was?
No, I didn't know existed something like dental lab. I thought that dentists do everything. Yeah.
Was your mom like, hell no? He said.
No, my mom accepted. My mom wanted me to work. In Brazil, it's kind of normal. It's kind of normal that kids I'd say younger person work to help their fathers at home at all. So at 12, 13, it's normal for us to work. For us that don't have some economically stable... Understood. That's fascinating.
So how big was this guy's lab?
It was the biggest in the town and in the region, the area. So the lab worked for other cities.
Oh, wow. So how many technicians?
At the time was 15. Oh, that's good size. But it grow up is like 25 now. Wow. So with all the digital, with intraoral scans for a lab, it's, well, when I saw the intraoral scan working in a lab, bro, that was really, really quick. Way better than the other normal scans.
So when you started at 12, what did he teach you?
I wasn't on that. That's my question.
I went to the part of, well, I don't know if I can say this in English. They're part of the analog part. Pouring models. Model work.
Pouring models.
Yeah, yeah, pouring models. So I learned everything about it. The Giroform, you know, Giroform from Amon, you know, that models that, you know, I work with it.
Wow.
But it was basically the whole time I was there. I'm 23 now, so I went there. It was my birthday. It was, I was 12, my birthday for 13 years when he called me.
Oh, really? Happy birthday. You were washing dishes on your birthday.
Yeah, bless. That's a great story.
Yeah, yeah. And I told him late that it was a gift for me, that job. So when I knew everything about the lab, I was very young. And I started working in this. My whole life I was working on it, but helping on other stages of the lab, like The metal, the metal finishing, yeah, helping other articulating everything, yeah, So, three years ago happens to the designer was quitting the lab, so I saw that and I think, Wow, it's gonna open some space for me, so you said that you wanted to do that, so I went there and seated and started watching them design. And that fascinated me, because I always loved computer. I'm a younger person.
Did you ever wax up a crown?
I started, but was right at the time that the lab was... The computer. So I went to the computer, and then I started to learn about static functionality, and I made a course to learn everything about Exocad. But we have to be always learning and doing things on the internet. And I started to do it, so in one month I was already on the lab working in digital, and that's it, so I started working in digital in the beginning, just making models, just simple cases, not designing teeth, but then I started to design teeth and 3D printing was my... My area there, 3D printing.
So he trained you and then left in two weeks, so you learned the basics from him, and then how did you keep evolving?
Yeah, like no one trained me really on this digital. I made a course by myself. I traveled for other cities to do the course. I told him, Hey, I'm really interested and I'm gonna pay for some course for me. It's going to be next month, and I'm going there and learn everything, and I want that spot. And I went there.
And he was good with that.
Yeah, bro, that was amazing. Everything wasn't like a flow. Everything went like a river. So I worked there, and I had a computer in my house, and I upgraded that computer to design. And I started designing for dentists. and lab from other cities from far away from there. And I saw that I wanted that to travel. I saw there's a friend of mine, Haniel, from Brazil. He is a master of Exocad. He's a master. He's here. I really wanted him to talk here because he's a master. He's a revolution, the CAD design on Brazil, talking about functionality, about occlusion, talking about things that no one tells.
So he speaks around Brazil. Yeah, wow.
He's doing some courses. He's speaking two weeks ago and of course in Sao Paulo with 20 people watching. He's becoming really great. He already came to Europe.
Do you want to speak eventually? You look like you would.
Yeah, I really want. I really want. I'm planning. So I came here thinking of that. I quit the lab thinking of that. And I saw Seth Potter, Juan Carlos Palma. They are heroes. They are spreading. They are telling the people about Exocal and how to make it. and I'm really inspired by this. Yeah, excited to be on the stage and talk about my passion of designing teeth. Not just design, but bro, it's not like just designing teeth. It's like you are giving a new smile to a person, a new life to a person.
You're changing a lot.
When you work there and you saw videos of the patient with the life to form, oh, that's amazing. That's really amazing.
That's the emotional connection. We've had a lot of those conversations today about the emotion of what we do to change a life. It's like so amazing.
So you quit that lab and you started doing remote designing by yourself. How did you? Let the world know, Hey, I'm here.
Well, actually, I'm starting now to tell to the world that I am existing, right? Yeah, so because my friends say you cannot be locked in a room. And just working. You have to show up in the internet. You have to tell the people. And I saw that and I say, oh yeah, that's the way. To be a hero also, that's the way.
So what are you doing?
Yeah. So that's why I'm here. I'm starting creating content. I didn't post. I have an editor. I just talked to him and he's going to edit the videos. Not just ExoTip. I wanted to To post some knowledge about everything, I don't want to say, Hey, do this and your design will be thinner, your design will be beautiful, but the design was not supposed just to be beautiful it's supposed to be functionality, right? You cannot design a... A smile that the patient cannot do the protrusion, the laterality. Right. Okay. So I want to talk about a knowledge, real knowledge on the mouth. That's what I really want to do. Something different.
I think it's important. A lot of people talk about aesthetically how do you make it beautiful. But what about the... I mean, it looks great until you bite into something.
Or you break it after a week.
And the event has been amazing because I'm talking to many people that... I just saw that in the top of the mountain, I it's like I can never reach them. So now here, Juan Carlos Palmer came talk to me. Oh, that's amazing. Seth Forter, take some photos. Oh, that was amazing. Amazing. I'm here with you guys. I just listened. I just heard the voice and you never seen in person. That's amazing.
So you're going to go to every single lecture? Are you? Is there one? Right.
Sorry. Yeah, there is. No, it's me. No, you're fine.
OK. So, what, like today, what was your favorite so far that you learned?
Wow, I really like...
Or I know you just said like 10 things, but like, from Exocad.
I really like the stackable guides on Exocad, because the stackable guides, we used to do it on other softwares, like Mesh Mixer, you know, other stuff. So, stackable guides on Exocad, all in one flow. I realized that they are doing it all in one, all in one, like the hub, all in one. That's amazing. So, This thing, this all in one thing, all in Exocad, that's I really liked it. Awesome.
Great answer.
Yeah, there's nothing worse than being in software and having to go to some weird third-party non-dental software to fix it, to bring it back in. Really.
Yeah, that's true.
I always mess it up. Mix, measure, measure, whatever it is, but it's yeah, it's so much better now that Exocad is.
Like, everything's all in one.
There's no reason to leave.
Any of you guys speak in Spanish?
No, not at all.
No? Not a little bit.
We don't even want him to try, actually.
I speak Portuguese, so it's kind of close. We can understand some things. But bro, when you on the police, get your car, and you have to talk Spanish to everyone to find the car, that's really because they got our car. We rent a car yesterday, and I parked it in the wrong place. Oh, man.
Did you get in trouble?
Yeah, I went there, I went there in the morning, let's go, let's get the car, let's get some, they towed your car, yeah, we had, yeah, where's the car? When I get there, where's the car? my God, my heart, bro, I just.
I had a Christmas party.
That happened, I almost fell on the floor, bro, I looked at my friend in his eyes, he was... Despair, throw, what did you do? And then a lady passed, a Spanish lady, miss, and say, I don't know what it is, so I just... Car, car. And she pointed to the floor and there was a stick on the floor saying, your car got caught. You're kidding me. You parked in the wrong place. You have to do this and do this and do this. Bureaucracy. You know this word? Bureaucracy. Yeah, we say bureaucracy. Oh yeah.
Sorry.
I hate this. I hate this.
So they showed you how to get it back. How much money did it cost you? 100 bucks? Oh, we're in euros.
I went back to the hotel, asked to help to three people, two different people, and they told us to come here to Palma. We were in another city. We spent a lot of Uber and we spent a lot of time. We lost all the day because we have a scheduler. We want to visit a beach on the other side of the island. But we could make it, we could have the car, but it was all day to have the car. We spent almost like 200 euros to get the car back. And the owner of the car, he was really mad, not with me, but with the bureaucracy. With the ********. Yeah, the ********. Thank you. Yeah. And he was speaking Spanish and I was not understanding, but I could see in his face that he was really mad. Yeah. And I was in Cau speaking Spanish with, I don't know, with five different people and trying to speak Spanish. Spanish is really hard.
Your probably would be easier if you just spoke English. More people speak English here, probably.
But the people from the government, they only speak Spanish.
Luckily, I haven't run into the government yet. You.
Better knock on the table, friend.
Really, really great. It's all right. It happened. We were in Madrid and Barcelona and missed the train and had to stay the night in a place We had to get an additional hotel room to one we were already spending it, because we got...
Oh, yeah. And you guys have been to many countries around here, like...
Many countries around here.
No. Italy, because when people come to Europe, they visit all the countries because it's very close. Yeah.
Usually when we go to IDS in Germany, we try to do a little bit more around. Yeah.
That's one place I'm planning to be, IDS. Next year. I think it would be very important.
It's very, very, very, very important. Very, very big. Like literally miles. When I say that, don't underestimate me. It's the biggest thing that we've ever seen in my entire life.
I was thinking it was big, but now I am thinking it's more bigger than I was thinking. Yeah, it's crazy.
Well, what's cool about this show is even though they have 800 plus attendees, it still has that feel of like a local, low show. Yeah, it really does. Like if they didn't tell me there's 8, I never would have guessed. I would have said a couple 100, but no, there's that many people here.
But when you saw the line this morning, that was all the way around and they said it was sold out and then they had just so many technicians wanting to come.
We went to a good restaurant yesterday and they accepted Exocard.
What?
Exo card. You don't know Exo card?
No.
That's cool.
Oh, yeah.
Wait a minute.
That doesn't look real. It is. It's got Visa. It's got this.
Thank you.
What is that?
Exo card. How did you get that?
What is an Exo card?
He must be a big deal. I'm just saying.
I'm going to show you the video. The man accepted this card and because I'm going to say this is a Wise, you know Wise, Wise card. No. The green. I just. Did he money it?
No, he put it on top of another. It's a sticker.
It's a sticker. Yeah.
But that's awesome.
I'm going to show you guys the video of us.
He's paying with XO card.
Oh my God, that's brilliant. Yep, that's going on social media.
That is social media. He's showing it. Yeah.
Exocat liked it. Yeah.
You didn't get Exocat's attention, right?
I love it. Tuman. Tuman loved it. Yeah, we showed it to Tuman.
Oh, that's great.
That's smart. I like it.
Tuman's awesome. That is so great.
Good, I don't know what laws you're breaking, putting a sticker on a credit card, but...
So, awesome.
That's it. You are going to listen to some... Lectures.
We're working.
We love this. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. It's not just work, it's love. It's our life.
It is, honestly.
I know what you mean.
Are you going to glam night tomorrow? Oh, for sure. Is it glam night?
For sure. I want everything from this event. I want to go to everything. I talk to many people that I never imagined talking in my life. Like in Brazil, I don't talk to many people in the street, but here I've found a lot of people and I talk the best. start of a conversation here, I realized is, where are you from? Because everyone is from somewhere else. Somewhere else.
That's so true.
I found one person that was born here. One person.
In Mallorca.
In Mallorca. One person. Wow. Everyone is from outside.
I wonder how many labs are in Mallorca.
I looked for it before coming to the organ. I researched it on the internet. And there's a lot.
I bet.
There's a lot. We are planning to go to visit a lab. Oh, that's fun. Yeah. We talked to the man and maybe we're going there. Wait a minute.
They work on Saturday in the lab.
But we were talking to the owner. In Brazil, it's common.
To work on the weekends.
It's fun to see the lab, not.
Work in the lab.
He'll put you to work.
Don't even say that out loud.
I'm not here to work. I'm here to see the event.
Well, wait a minute. You do remote designs. I'm sure you bring out your laptop.
Are you working at all? I'm not here to work, but some clients.
That client, I know they find.
You, that client that I love so much, we're gonna hook them up, I can't do it for you, real quick, real quick, yeah, that's really good for.
You, no, the Wi-Fi here is terrible, I can't help, I'm trying.
I can't hear you, yeah.
That's awesome. Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it. I really appreciate it. So it's like a dream coming true. I always listen to you guys living in the culture side of Brazil. I never imagined that I would be here.
It's crazy that we are reaching the countryside of Brazil. So thank you.
Have to be there someday. In Paraguay, you have to be there. So ask for.
If we do, we're calling you.
Is there a dental show in Brazil?
I think she was saying today that there's a big giant dental show.
Dental show in Brazil, like a dental convention like that show?
Yeah, SIOSP in Sao Paulo.
Got it.
Was this year the guys from Bite Finder was there from Exocad was there too. So there is this big event.
Exocad, we want to go.
Yeah, they have to take you there. Yeah.
Awesome.
So that's it, guys.
Thank you so much. We appreciate you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I remember.
Yeah, IDS, Germany, now Exocad Insights. Chicago.
Tobias, stop following us. Seriously.
I think we're following you. We need to get him up here.
Let's go. Awesome. So Exocat Insights 2026. Good friend. Ivaklar, Tobias Specht. How are you, sir?
It's amazing to be here again.
Yeah.
We are good partners of Exocat.
I hope we are. Yeah.
The gold sponsor here. We've been the third time here.
Third year. So we just saw you in Germany, and now you're at Insight. So you get around a little bit. How's life?
Life is good. Life was busy.
Do you cherry-pick the good places and then let someone else go to all the other places?
No, We share between the teams.
Well, you're located in Germany, right? So it's two hours.
Liechtenstein. Liechtenstein. Yes, that's the headquarters.
How long did it take you to get here? Two hours? Three hours? Not long.
It's a two-hour flight.
Okay, cool.
That's it.
Awesome.
I don't think it's farther, but in America everything's far away.
I think one day we should go there.
Yes, I agree. I agree.
Yes, that's my ultimate life goal.
There you go.
Seriously. There you go.
Anyhow. So talk about the relationship between Ivoclar and Exocad.
Yes.
Do you guys sell Exocad?
Yes.
Oh, so you're a reseller of it? Yes, Okay, perfect.
So we started, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago. Yeah. Talking to them, bringing their products in, and then we integrated Ivotion. A digital denture into the Exocat world, and we are a reseller of Exocat, so this is how the relationship gets stronger.
So, you had to work with Exocat, so Ivotion would work with it.
Yes, it's fully integrated.
How hard is that? It's gotta be hard.
It took a weekend to work with Exocat.
No, it's easy.
Yeah, no, I need to integrate like that.
It took a time, yes, because I... you need to develop certain things in the software, but everything else was done very easily. And now it's since, I don't know, maybe 5, 5, couple of years, it's out there. You get it with the Exocut version.
It just comes with it.
It comes with it.
So even if you want to print or do the Ivotion, it's still the same workflow, just the output is different.
No, when you go into the Ivotion, there's a separate print. The kind of things you need in the software, which are part of it, to get the Ivotion kind of set up.
Is it a button that says Ivotion?
A button, really.
I don't know.
Is it?
When you go to the Ivotion, then it comes all the specific things what you need for you for Ivotion.
Yeah, because you've got to set it in the right place. It's not just a wing it.
No, You need something special.
When somebody gets the iVotion or wants to use that product, and they have Exocad, you guys go in and help facilitate.
Yes, we train the customers probably on the design, how to do it, how to use the materials, and afterwards, because we have our academies around the globe, so there you get training, you get used to the software, and how to use iVotion properly.
Yeah, we know iVotion training is top-notch.
Yes, I know. Nothing but props, honestly. Nothing but good things to hear about that.
So yesterday, everybody was talking about the big announcement.
Good. That was the goal.
I think that was like the last part of the day or the first part of the day. When was that?
It was the last part.
Yeah. So you were like, all right, boom, we're in the day this way.
Exactly. That was the goal. Tell us. What was it? No, we yesterday we had a world premiere here at the Extra Cup. We announced 3 new products, so we had the new mill, the Program L7.
I didn't hear about the mill. What kind of mill?
That's the new.
I heard about the zirconia, but I did not know.
We had three products. First the mill.
We had the mill.
What's different about the mill?
So, the new mill is based on the existing one, but we kept the things the customer love. You know, don't change.
You listen to the customer.
Yes, and improve the things. They needed to be improved, right? So we have a new spindle inside, 1.5 kilowatts now. So really a lot of performance, more performance than the existing one, than the old one.
Wonderful.
Then we have a new display, bigger display, easier of use.
Oh, display for the thing.
Yes, to use it, to touch it. Then we have reduced air consumption, because sometimes, you know, when you work overnight, the air consumption, you know, with the compressors and everything like that. and a lot of new software features on the mail, just to work more efficiently with the mail. we have a changer, this changer, you can unload this changer now with our one button. It comes, all the disks are coming, wow, just to speed up efficiency in the lab and get more performance to the mill. That was the start.
Do you guys have an app that, if I'm looking at 2 A.m., I can check and make sure the air is good?
Yes, for sure. Really? Yeah, so smart. We have monitoring, where you see all the mills in the lab. If you have whatever 5 mills, you see which one is running, what's the status?
And then if you're in trouble and you have to go in at 4 A.m.
Or do something, something happens.
So do you want to ruin your evening or do you want to ruin your morning?
Go in the evening and fix that.
I'm going to call somebody and say, hey, can you please go in and fix that? And employees are amazing.
And you know, we did a lot with customers like John Wilson from the US. We had European customers, heavy users of programmers. We were long dialogues with them, okay, what they like, what needs to be improved, and this is how we build it.
Ivaclar's always listen to their customers, though, because I've been a long-term Ivaclar, and it seems like you guys bring your customers in, you have a day or two where you just solicit feedback, and then you take it, and obviously you make changes.
Yes, we did it in the past, but now we did it even in a different way, especially for the other two new products we have, like EMXR and the new Zirconia. We started the so-called customer integration program with 40 to forty-five customers since three years, more or less, from twenty-five countries around the world. We brought them in, we showed them the first recipes of Zaramat, the first Zirconia shadings, and everything like that.
I want to get on that list.
You want to be one of those?
How do you get on that list?
How do you become that person?
You call me?
Yeah, we'll get you there.
Pretty sweet. So, anyhow, so forty-five customers from all around the world, yes, and then you solicit feedback from all of them. That's pretty amazing.
Yes, so we are doing sessions in North America, we have sessions in Europe and sessions in Asia. Wow, in total, we had 10 sessions with them. Wow, total. And always the R&D people are there to listen, what they like, what they don't like, what needs to be improved, the shades. how technicians aren't the RM is, the consistency is very special sometimes. And they improved over the years. So all those KRLs and customers were really part of the development. And the unique thing is they saw it from session to session, what they told the R&D, they felt it the next time. They really listened.
Do you think that from all of the different countries you had similar feedback?
Yes, we had for sure some similar feedbacks. That's interesting, yeah. Similar feedbacks, especially on consistency, but I also know it's a, because we have people there, they're running a small lab, two, three, four, 5 labs, people, then we have mid-sized labs there, but we also had guys having a huge lab. Yeah, and there you see, there are different things, you know, but... We managed it to get it together. That's why, for instance, one of the key products is the magic glaze, and we call it magic because it's really magic. You put it there and it stays there, and you release, you put the shade in there. This is the foundation for the one-shot technique.
So there's a one shot technique, two shots technique. Is there also an anterior and a posterior one shot glaze?
No, we do just one shot. That means you put the glaze on and you put the shades or essence inside and you place them there and they are there after firing. There is no movement.
What you see is what you get out of the oven. Correct.
Was this one of the big announcements, this one shot?
One shot is very important, the magic glaze, but all with the new things going more to implants, the Orlonics and so on. So we put a lot of effort in the gingiva aesthetics, the pink. And there are different pink colors, but the feedback was always, we need red. We need real red gingiva. But the red you only get with cadmium. And cadmium is toxic.
Oh.
Wait, hold on.
It's made out of cadmium.
So the typical red colors, you only really get with cadmium. And cadmium you can't use, right?
It's not good for the body.
That means our R&D, we developed a patented red pigment, which delivers the red.
Interesting.
And this is only in the new eMaxeramat.
What's that made out of?
This is the secret.
I'm telling you.
Shoot, I tried. I tried.
But that's fantastic.
Yes, that's the really unique thing. And with that red pigment, We are able to cover all phenotypes what you get.
And it's not.
The lighter one, pinker one, darker ones. Wow. This is the unique thing when you combine those things.
Interesting. I didn't know red was so...
And then the other amazing thing beside the magic glaze, the ginger is the structure paste. And this consistency is very different to what you usually have in a ceramic. So it's more like a composite type of...
Oh, I got a kit. And it's fantastic. I'm here to tell you, it is beautiful. Like ridiculous. And when he says what you get or what you do is what you get and the structure, same thing.
Exactly. So these are the kind of the three pillars of the assortment for sure. We have 50 shades, you know.
Yeah, you got a lot of shades.
So 5-0 is amazing. That's a lot of shades. Well, you don't think so until you really look at some teeth. And you do some of these cases and you're like, damn, I could have really used that color and you've never had it and now you do.
So it's pretty phenomenal. And the important is Ceramat works on all the Emacs products. Doesn't matter if it's lisum, the silicate, pressed, the blue blocks, Emacs CAD, or zirconia, it works on everything.
That's pretty crazy.
That's unique.
Yeah.
And you know, the customer love it, the product works, and we get a lot of fantastic feedback from all the markets until now.
Yeah.
So what about the Zirconia?
Yeah, was that the third? What was the third announcement?
The third one, this was the real world premiere.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
That was the Emacs Zirconia, the latest generation of zirconium oxide.
Yep.
Why do you call it? I'm just asking. You may not know the answer, but why Emacs Zirconia?
Because you know, in the we had Emacs Circuit Prime and Prime Aesthetics, so and we said. Now, with everything that product does, it's just the EMAX zirconia. No more. This is it, right? Yeah. Because that product now delivers more or less everything you need out of a zirconia material. So we do from thin veneers to all on X bridges, everything out of 1 disk.
How is that even possible? Because it used to be you had to have a disk for bridges and your single units and your veneers. But now you can do all out of one.
Yes. So what we, so we really redefined versatility to put everything in one disk, right? We, the strength is 1200 megapascal. That's why we are able to do 1200, 1200, which is ridiculous in the dentin and 800 in Zizer. It's huge. That's why we are able to do, from a physical standpoint, can we are able to do all those indications. Then what we improved, we had on prime the GT technology, the gradient.
The gradient, yeah.
This was even now improved. We called it now GTX because we put special focus on how the gradient is working. We improved the gradient profile to make it more.
Well, he says that he means it because I saw it. I don't mean to interrupt you, but you can see the translucent inside. Like gradient's one thing. But when you actually see translucency as if you were building it in and layering it in, that is what I saw from this new material.
This is amazing.
It's exceptional.
And we haven't, the disc itself, it has a special microstructure now, the way how we treat the powders and everything like that. And this microstructure leads them to the super fast sintering, what we are able to do. I will explain now a little bit later. And with that, with the new GTX, we improved also the shading and the shader accuracy. That means we really nailed it down. You get an A1, an A2, or a C2, it doesn't matter. So it's really on the spot.
And faster centering, did you say?
Yes.
Yeah.
This was one of the- How much faster?
You got to give it up.
It's ridiculous fast. So the single units, single units and three unit bridges, we are at below one hour at 58 minutes.
Can you believe that? Ten units under 2 hours.
Yeah, that's insane, 10 units in the furnace in the program at S2, but the key was the big bridges, so and you can center now the All-on-X 14 unit implant bridge in two hours, fifty-seven minutes.
How do you even do that?
And this is the.
We got to go to Lichten's.
So it's below 3 hours from 9 hours today. Yeah. To 3 hours at least.
Sometimes 16, sometimes 12, I mean not even close.
And think about now, you know, a regular lab today has a small lab has 50, 60, 70 discs in the lab. Different thicknesses, different sizes. Now with zirconia, you just use one and then you're done. You don't need all the stock, so.
You don't have to go from 15 to 20, twenty-five.
But don't they have different shades?
Yeah, different shades, different thicknesses, and everything like that, but we cover all the indications and think about the efficiency, the productivity gain now in the lab, so you can do a full arch now in one day.
That's insane.
That's more your wheelhouse.
Yeah, and that's amazing, when you see really it is. And that's why we call it redefining versatility, because we do all the indications. And I tell you, the veneers out of their discs look amazing.
Are you seeing more clients use veneers from zirconia now? Because I am. So why do you think that is?
Just I think it could be better.
For us, you know, we have emacs, we have lisum, the silicates, and we have the zirconia. And for sure, lithium dysilicate is the way. It's the gold standard when it comes to single units, adhesive dentistry.
You know me, I still love Empress. Exactly.
Yeah, Empress was the start, now with lithium dysilicate moving into zirconia. I think it's a workflow topic, you know. You get cases from the dentist, there's a veneer, there are two crowns, there's one veneer. And okay, what are you doing now?
You're like, what am I doing? Mixing materials.
Mixing, or you just go into one zirconia? I think there's the, if you just get an order of 2 veneers. understand you for sure.
That's probably why you guys called it Emax Zirconia. Exactly. Because it does make sense.
Exactly.
Because I would do an Emax Veneer and then a multi-layer Zirconia. And now when you think about it, you have one name.
Exactly. That was the...
I should be in their spokesperson.
Yes.
She's really here.
Yes.
She wants to go to Germany. She wants to be part of this group.
I understand the workflow only because I've been using your materials for so many years that it actually psychologically makes sense for me.
But is this stuff going to replace Emacs?
No, probably not. No, It's, you know, Emacs, last year we had the big 20-year program. And Emacs, in all ceramic these days, Emacs is the gold standard. It proved, you know, all ceramics that you can do everything.
I got a question.
Okay.
Sorry. Do you think you've got the MTs, the LTs, the HTs? Do you think maybe next Chicago there's going to be a new MTHT something T?
Oh, does there need to be one? I don't know much about it. I don't know much about it.
Let's see. Let's see what we have in pipeline. But for sure, the topic is...
Bob Gamley's going, You go, girl.
We have, the beauty of Emacs is we have Lisum the Silicates where you can do all the stuff, and now we have Emacs Zirconia, and the system was built 20 years ago with Lisum the Silicates and Zirconia, and still today, and we will innovate on both material categories. I love it, and you will see that coming.
Honestly, at the bench... I never would have guessed this, but Elvis, I'll tell you this. Also, I'm seeing more veneer cases in zirconia.
The doctors are asking for it.
Yeah.
I always thought they were asking for it and they don't know any better. They're like.
It was always like bond, bond, bond, bond D-Max. But now these docs are doing zirconia cases on veneers.
Yeah, you need to bond. Veneers, you need to bond.
Even the zirconia.
Yeah, you need to. So you need to bond. But we have, we have all our cementation products. We have aesthetics, we have Monobond Plus to bond the zirconia, to use sandblast, you clean, put Monobond Plus there, and it works. So there is no problem to bond zirconia veneers. It's no problem. It's proven. And we have data. We have data from Professor Kern and Keel. There was a Maryland bridge study. More than, I think, 10 to 12 years now, clinical data of adhesively bonded Maryland bridges, and they are just working. Yeah.
They're doing zirconia Maryland bridges.
Yeah, Same.
We can never get those things to work.
Same. but I think it would be great. And thank God we're on the podcast right now, but I'm still recommending cementing them, but we can bond them also. You should bond them.
Zirconia needs to be bonded. Veneers should be bonded. It's must be bonded.
Maryland Bridges is bonded.
So you're basically a lingual veneer?
Exactly. Yeah, with one bonding, that's it. No bonding.
Is it a sandblast, etch? What is the, you've got to sandblast it, right?
For the tooth structure, everything is the same like when you would. put the glass ceramic there. On the zirconia, you use sandblast, and then you put monobond plus there, and that's it. And then you use wiring aesthetics. You can go with the light curing because the veneers are thin, the light goes through with the blue face while curing. So it's not a problem. Just follow the protocol.
Well, thank you. And we have a complete tropical.
That's good to know.
Thank you.
We know the dentists are always asking, Can I do that? Yes.
They always ask us. I'm like, I've never done it at all.
No, it works. It works. It works.
That's exceptional. All right.
That's awesome. Yeah. So thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
We always enjoy touching base with you. are our out of America Ivor Clark correspondent.
Yeah. When did we see you next? We saw you in Germany at IDS, now Exocad, maybe Chicago.
Chicago for sure.
Yeah, for sure. Excellent. Cool. Thank you.
Thank you. Maybe you see us, you see us at the IDS again next year.
Yeah, there you go.
We're going to go, hopefully.
We're going to try.
All right, see you then.
Thank you.
Appreciate you.
Thank you.
So a huge thanks to Exocad for putting on Insight so that we could talk to and thank Dr. Lau, Allison, and Tobias for coming by to talk to us. We actually think that it's great that some students are getting into exocads so that they can get a better understanding of what needs to be done for everything to be done right. So well said. He said it best, it's collaboration and we agree. And it's always great to meet fans from Brazil. Brazil is awesome. Are you watching soccer right now? Just saying.
Not at all.
Okay. And what a great. And what a great story. We can't wait to see what Allison will be doing in the future. And of course, always great to talk to Tobias and hear about all the amazing things that Ibaclar is doing to make us look better as a lab. they're great. Just remember, I have a car. When you guys are ready for a new spokesperson, I'm here for you.
Yeah, there you go. All right, everybody, that's all we got for you. And of course, we'll talk to you next week.
And I'm going to say, go America. Let's do it.
Is that a soccer thing?
Yes, it's the World Cup, Elvis.
Are we in it?
Yes, we're kicking.
Yay. Yay us.
Have a good week, guys.
Sports and balls. I blame solar flares or something. I'm not going to move.
Okay.
Don't move. Don't breathe. Don't look.
Okay.
The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.