Hey, Voices of the Bench community, Jessica Love here, giving me a shout out from Utah. As many of you know, I am passionate about creating natural-looking, beautiful smiles, and I also believe in simplifying systems without compromising on aesthetics. I am honored to be part of Ivoclar's development team to bring you a new stain and glaze system with structure paste. IPSEmax CeramArt. With this system, you can create beautiful works of art with depth and color in as little as one firing. Join us as we continue to innovate, simplify, and create meaningful change, one smile at a time. Let me ask you something. When it comes to digital dentures, what's actually harder, the design or the manufacturing?
Hmm interesting. I'm gonna go with manufacturing actually hands down every time Designs got pretty streamlined. We all know how to do that. But once you hit production, that's where things can go sideways.
So yeah, too much variability in the results. Is that right?
Exactly, which is why I've been pretty intrigued by the elevate denture solution.
Whoa, that sounds fancy do tell mm-hmm.
It's basically a fully dialed denture workflow built from a collaborative Collaboration between Roland Ivoclar and follow me so you've got the machine the materials and the cam all working together.
Wow, that sounds way more cohesive than most solutions. Do you not agree?
I mean, that's the idea It's designed specifically for Ivotion monolithic dentures and the oversized two-step workflow all running on DG shaped mills with hyper dent behind the scenes.
All right, so instead of piecing together a workflow yourself. It's already been tested and optimized.
Exactly. Why you got to be messing around doing it yourself? You're getting fully validated milling strategies, more predictable results, and none of that trial and error.
I can totally get behind that, you guys, especially for labs trying to grow denture productions without adding the crazy chaos that comes along with it sometimes.
Do you not like chaos?
No, not really.
It's not just about about milling dentures. It's about making them reliable with extremely high quality over and over and over again.
Which let's be honest, that's actually the hard part.
Yeah, it is. It's extremely hard.
So I got it. So how do people learn more about adding these capabilities to their Rolland mills?
They can start by visiting rollanddga.com forward slash elevate.
All right guys, that's easy enough. Go check it out.
It sounds amazing. Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info at voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 419 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
Hey, my name's Barbara.
Hey.
So there's something different every week. Hey.
Every week? You want me to come up with something different every week? Who's got time for that?
Yeah, nobody's got time for that. Haven't you see that video? Ain't nobody got time for that, Elvis.
Howdy, partner. This is episode 419. I'm doing this one for the DLAT show.
I think you should.
Yeah, we are getting ready. We're headed out to Texas this weekend. Super excited to see our friends out there.
Yeah, and we're gonna.
Yeah, I hope so. And we are also gearing up to head back to Mallorca, Spain for another Exocad Insights meeting. Are you ready? Are you packed?
No, I'm not. Are you kidding me? Do you know who I am? I will tell you that I've bought some cute little dresses and some things to get myself in preparation, but no, I just like you should be glad I have tickets.
I was going to ask, do you have tickets?
Yes, I do. I do have my tickets.
Sweet. Everyone, this fabulous event only happens every two years. And the last time, Barb and I's first time, was absolutely stunning. Imagine hanging out with other dental technicians, all for the love of Exocad. Great location, great speakers, great food, great everything. Absolutely love this event. Head over to exocad.com forward slash insights dash 2026 to register. And remember, as you've been hearing in these ads we've been doing, that you will get 15% off if you use the code VFTBPAMA15 when checking out.
Damn, all happening April 31st and May 1st, but you definitely want to take some extra time to enjoy. for the outstanding, and I swear to God, outstanding location. I'm spending four days after the meeting just to see the island. I'm so excited. So thank you, Exocad, for giving us the opportunity again to record some of the most amazing people that are attending the show.
Yeah, I think I'm there five nights after the meeting. I think four or five, but I'm looking forward to just not doing a whole lot.
Ditto.
You know it. I want to wake up with the beach outside my window and the breeze coming in and wake up at like noon.
Yes, agree.
So recently I have been seeing EviSmart everywhere, online and at dental shows. I really didn't know what was going on. I know Evident has been around for years. And we've even talked to some people from Evident in episodes past. But this gave us an opportunity to get to know Katherine Wilcox on the podcast. She comes on to explain how and why Evident is now called EviSmart. Katherine talks about her history as a dental technician, starting to work at Evident and building a reliable design outsource option all around the time of COVID.
Crazy.
But understanding that a digital workflow has a lot of options for labs to stabilize their capacity, they branch out to help in other aspects from data entry all the way to nesting. But now they've rebranded as EviSmart and can help your lab get cases through from start to almost finish. So join us as we chat with Katherine Wilcox.
Hey, voices from the bench listeners, Barbara here. Are you ready to take your digital dentistry skills to the next level? Then you do not want to miss Exocad Insights 2026. It's happening April 30th through May 1st on the stunning island of Mallorca, Spain. We're talking two full days of powerhouse keynotes, hands-on workshops, live software demos, and top frontier industry showcases all in one incredible location. And yes, Elvis and I will be there too, bringing you exclusive on-site interviews that you won't hear anywhere else. Now here's something extra special this year. The Women in Dentistry to Lunch. It's a celebration of the women who lift this profession higher every single day. You'll hear from an inspiring panel about career growth, bias, well-being, and the real stories their journeys. It's one of those rare events that reminds you why your work matters and how powerful we are when we support one another. And of course, I look forward to the legendary EXO Glam Night. You can network, listen to music, and have unforgettable fun under the stars. Tickets are going fast, so head to exocad.com/insights-2026 and grab yours today. And just for our listeners, listeners, Voices from the Bench listeners, use the code VFTBPALMA15 for 15% off. We will see you in Mallorca.
Voices from the Bench. The Interview.
We'll see if we're ready.
You were born ready.
I'm born ready. Yeah, I just been trying to not do this for years.
Yeah, I know. You've avoided me for so long and now it's happening. So Barb and I are super duper excited to finally talk to someone that I think I think you go to more shows than Barb and I do. You have to. Katie Wilcox from EviSmart. We're going to get into what you are these days. Katie, how are you?
And EviSmart.
Yay. Doing great. Doing great. Nice to be here, Elvis.
Absolutely. We've been running into each other, I mean, for a very long time at shows. And I know you come down from Canada, right?
Yeah, in Vancouver.
All right, so give us your story on how you you found your way into dental.
It's a long story, I feel like. We love long story. People that are in dental do have an interesting story behind it, but I've always worked in dental, even like when I was in high school. I think the only job I've ever had that isn't a a dental job was a grocery store when I was a teenager.
We all got to start somewhere.
Everything else has been dental since then. Yeah, but I first got into it because my aunt is actually a dentist.
Oh, interesting, yeah.
And I used to go to her office when I was like during my summers in high school and I would like do just help around, do sterilization, stuff like that, or help with the front desk. And then I always kind of just was really drawn to it as something I wanted to do for a career. But I didn't want to be a dentist. I never have ever wanted to be a dentist. So Wayne, why?
Because she was miserable or she told you not to or what?
You probably didn't want to be in people's mouths.
No, I think it was just because I didn't want to spend that much time in school.
Oh, well, that's a thing.
I just like, I just like, I didn't want to spend that much of my early 20s going to school, it just sounded awful. So I'm like, I could do other things.
Yeah, sure.
That's a super honest answer. I love that answer.
But I did end up spending a lot of time in school anyways. Way to go. Because I first started at dental assisting and I hated that job. I don't know how people do it, but it just like didn't suit who I am as a person. Like you have to go in there, make the patient feel comfortable and talk about the weather and just like, I couldn't do the small talk. I'm like, how many times can I talk about the weather today? Is it 10, 15? I'm like, I just can't.
How many times do you ask, do you have any plans this weekend? I mean, it's like.
Exactly. I even got like little one-on-ones with the dentist I work for. He's like, you really need to like, you know, do. do some more small talk and I'm like, I just can't do this.
So what? Is that supposed to like make the patient more comfortable?
I guess. I guess that's the idea. Lots of people just like to talk.
Yeah, you don't want it to seem like a machine, you know? You want to, yeah, we're all family here.
Yeah, exactly. Especially, you know, like if they're feeling anxious or uncomfortable, you know, like you have to kind of try to get them to relax a bit, right?
I wouldn't be very good at that either.
And there was just like, there was just stuff about that, like weird things that would happen all the time that, I just wasn't, it wasn't for me. So I did it for like 2 years and decided to move on. But I, that's how I learned about dental technology in the 1st place. Nobody really knows what it is unless you've. Yeah.
But did you see like crowns in the back room? Yeah.
And I would just be like, how do they make these? are incredible. And it just like really drew my interest. So I try to like, the dentist I work for would let me make night guards and stuff like that. And I always liked kind of doing some of the lab perks of it. Yeah. But then I just applied kind of on a whim for the dental technology school here in Vancouver. And I'm like, I don't know if I'll get it or whatever. Like it's really small classes and they only accept 40 students every two years. So there is kind of, there's tests that you have to do to get into it and it is fairly competitive to get in. Yeah.
Elvis and I have talked to people before and they've told us the same damn thing. So you must be smart.
Well, I don't know about that, but I did well at it. I've never been that great at school, but when it came to this stuff, it just felt very easy and natural for me. So I did the school and then I moved to Ontario and got my first job there. So they accepted you? Yeah. Yep. I don't know why they did. They did.
What was the test like? Was it, was the test geared about dental technology or was it just like a generalized test?
No, there's one was like a psychology test.
Oh God. And then?
Are you crazy?
Check. Okay, you're right.
Because you have to be if you want to be a technician, right? Yes. The other is like a dexterity test. So you have, they give you like a measurements of a shape And then you have to carve it into a block of wax and it has to be the same measurements as what's asked on the paper. So for, I mean, for a technician, I'm sure that would be whatever, right? But for people who don't actually do it, you know, like it takes a little bit. And then there's some drawings that you had to do of like teeth as well. And to scale and everything like that. So it was kind of an interesting one, but.
Did you love it right away?
I mean, I did love like the lab, like even at school, I loved kind of going into the lab and getting to do it. And then when I started working in the lab, I was just started in models. Even when you come out of school, you don't know anything. You don't know how to do anything. So I started doing models and I worked for like, kind of like a smaller lab in Ontario. which was great because I got to try whatever I wanted to try, right? Because it was small enough that I was able to play around in every department I wanted to. And so I learned a lot there, but I love being a dental technician. Like there's not, I never thought I would ever do anything else. Like I really enjoyed it. Even just the idea of like going in, grabbing a coffee, putting your headset on and not talking to anybody for the entire day.
That's what I like.
I like that. I like that.
That's right.
I think I just.
No small talk mentality there.
Exactly. It was like, I'm like, this is it. This is what I'm going to do. And I kind of like artsy too. So like the whole doing it physically, doing something with your hands and creating something is, I really enjoyed doing that too. Right. So, So I didn't think I'd ever do anything else. And then I was working in a lab on Vancouver Island for a while. I was managing that lab there. And then I met Jason Underwood, who was my Nobel sales rep at the time.
Yes.
And we know him. And he, do you? He's a great guy.
Yeah.
He's worked for a lot of companies since then, but he used to be a technician too. And we would always just kind of randomly chat about it. I'm like, why would you like moved to something like sales so completely different than being a technician, right? It just, I didn't really understand it. So he'd always tell me a little bit about some of the differences and we'd chat a little bit about it. I still keep in contact with him now.
He probably said, because freaking salespeople make more money.
And just sometimes the grass is greener on the other side, right? And even though I like to sit there, work with my hands, and not have to talk to anybody all day, I also like the aspect of the relationship building and getting to meet all the all the different people in the industry, I really enjoy that as well. So it really was a good fit for me too. And so, but that's kind of why I kind of got interested in it when I met Jason and he was telling me about his experience. And then things just kind of lined up where, first I started talking to some of the guys at Frontier Dental Lab. And then I, and I actually, they actually offered me my first sales role at Frontier because there's a...
That's in California though.
Yeah, but there's also a location here in Vancouver, a smaller location here. Yeah. So they have a pretty good sized lab here in Vancouver. So I came in and they didn't, they really needed like a sales rep there. So I tried that out for a few months, but that's like right when COVID started to like hit like in 2019.
Oh yeah, the good times, right?
Yeah.
And then the labs shut down and everything like that. And I was just kind of like here in Vancouver myself, I'm a single mom as well. And I'm just like, I don't know if I can like, I need something more flexible. I'm not even going to be able to work or go into the lab for months. And I just like needed something else. And that's when I was like, well, maybe I'll talk to Paulo and see if there's, if Evident is hiring and stuff. And so I gave him a call and We chatted about it and I don't think he even knew what he was going to have me do. He just knew that he wanted me to work for them. Oh, look at that.
So he must have known you, right?
Yeah, we've known each other for a bit just through Frontier also, but even just through Evidence. It has lab management software as well, Evidence. So that was, I've used it in every lab I've ever worked in. So I knew the company really well.
He knew exactly who you were.
Yeah, So I've been there ever since, but it's been And definitely a journey.
So when you joined Evident, was it just lab management software?
When I joined it, that was like our main product was lab management software.
How long ago?
That was around 2019. Okay.
Yeah, you said just COVID, I think.
But 2018 is when we actually started building the design center. So when I got there, it was, they had already started building it. So it already started before I joined. So they, but it was still very new, right? So it was still very small. We just had a handful of technicians at the design center in the Philippines. And then, you know, a few of us in the Vancouver office that were doing sales and training and support, but it became like clear with COVID and people just really needing a service like that at that time that, you know, we had to really focus on growing that side of the business. So we hired a different team to focus on the line management software and our team, like under Guy, we all really focused on how we were going to grow the design center.
So I've got to be honest with you, I did not know you guys had a design center. So that was a long time ago, so that was 2019-18. So you guys do design services also?
That's right. Yeah, that was, it was what really was a, what we did that was able to really build us to the size of the company we are today was the design services. And we were really lucky because it was like, Rob Blaser already opened up those doors with full contour where people were starting to really accept that this is going to be something that's going to help them. And we're more open to the idea of outsourcing designs. But back then it was still a lot of people still had like, oh no, you can't do that. We keep all our stuff in-house. We don't outsource anything. So there's still really that more of mindset in the industry around then. But it changed pretty quickly after COVID, after everything started. Yeah. It was just more of everyone's doing it now, right? Everybody needs it. And it was the only way labs were really able to stabilize their capacity. with by using it, right? So send off their overflow. So really being able to have like a consistency, consistent volume in their lab day-to-day without having to worry about the super lows and highs of the industry and of when dental is coming in, right? Which usually, has its peaks, but then it has its really, really slow parts where people end up having to send people home for an early shift. And that was a solution for a lot of labs to really kind of stabilize that.
And I think that's a great point because you've got people sitting around when you don't have the work, but then when you have too much, what do you do with it? It's either overtime or it's cases sitting. So to have an option, you're able to outsource designs and have everything keep flowing. Totally agree.
Yeah, it is just like a small part of the actual process of the fabrication, but it made a big impact to a lot of labs. I remember, do you guys know Hermitage Dental Lab from home? Yes, of course. Nicest, nicest man ever. It's not very often that you're working with customers just like, just like labs with dentists, you know, they usually are their loudest when something's going wrong, right?
No, we're not like that at all.
If they're reaching out to you, it's because something's going wrong.
Yeah.
But he sent us like the nicest e-mail ever after COVID about how we were able to help him. Like half his team was sick and couldn't even come into the office and they were able to send us some of their work. that we were able to kind of help them keep moving forward. So he sent the nicest e-mail to us and it's those things that really, make you feel good about you're doing something right.
Yeah, when you're able to help people and keep their labs running, like there's no better feeling, honestly.
Yeah.
But weren't the teams in the Philippines, weren't they also shut down? Wasn't the whole world shut down?
We did multiple things. Like we had people working from home at the time, you know, like, but we never shut down the full facility. We never We never needed to.
Interesting. Just more relaxed laws or closures over there. I mean, I don't know.
Yeah, there were rules to follow, of course, right? Just like anybody, but for the most part, like, and we had people working from home then. We don't do that anymore. Everybody's like in office now, but you just have to adapt. Even our team was working from home when we were doing it, right.
So everybody was. For sure. So when Paolo hired you, what was your initial job there? Was it working with the LMS or was it directly with the design service?
I kind of started on both. Like when I first started, they started training me on the lab management software and how to do demos and how to get people set up and start selling that. was where I first started. But we already had the design business too, but it was just very, very small at the time. And we're still growing it, right? So when I first started, When we started, we had a team of, there was three of us, and then Guy was our manager for the sales team. And he just kind of split all the accounts that we currently had between us. And then we were just given like Excel spreadsheets of labs. And he's like, go for it. Now you guys have to grow your books. And that's what we did.
So did you just like call on labs and say, hey, we have a software?
We did. We cold called every day, everybody.
And just said, we can do your designs.
Yes, so then that was just designs. And I mean, we just try all kinds of things, what worked, what didn't work, what people were looking for, like what the people that have been using outsource services were and what they were missing. And so how we could like differentiate what we were doing between some of the bigger design competitors out there. And so We just talked to everybody and tried to figure out these things and we kind of found our own niche in it and we were really able to kind of scale from there. So it was a really cool experience to be part of.
Sorry, Elvis, go ahead.
I didn't say anything, go. Oh, so.
Would you like go back and have a meeting and say like, this is all the feedback, and then you'd tell the design center and then they would tweak it as they went?
Sort of. For us, it was like, what do they need and what are people looking for? And it wasn't really about like just the designs, Barb. It was just about support and having somebody to call and customer service and having like a point of contact that, is going to be able to understand what you're talking about. That's where I really was able to like find my edge as like an account manager for designs is because I am a technician, right?
Yeah.
I'm A technician and they could be like, oh, the marginal rich, it's like, it's too high, Katie. This isn't going to work. And I'm like, oh yeah, I can look at the design and tell them, yeah, you're right. I'll tell the design. So I could be like a really, I was like really good at being able to interpret what the issues were and then be able to really work with our design team to make those improvements.
Awesome.
So that was like something that really kind of helped me not make the initial sale for the lab, but able to grow the account to send more and make sure they were getting dialed into what they were looking for, which was great. really, really hard to do. I mean, everybody has different preferences, different expectations. And you look at a crown, one technician will think it looks great and the other will be like, nope, this isn't right. I want this and this. And it's just. everybody's different. So it's a really, really hard thing to do to make people happy on what they're getting back.
That is so true. For some of us, that's a pass. For some of us, it's like, no, change this, change this, change this. Oh, that not drive you crazy. I bet it did. Oh my God.
Yeah, but I understood it too, right? Like it can drive you crazy. And sometimes there's just people that you just can't please. And that's just the way it is.
We work with Dennis, we understand.
Exactly. And I would be like, okay, I'm going to do my best and, you know, do my best to get you guys exactly what you're looking for. But at the end of the day, if it didn't work out, I would be like, you know what, go ahead, try like a few others, see if you guys can find the right fit for you. know, if you want to come back, I'm more than happy to try this again with you guys, right? That's a great outlet. Yeah, And most of them do come back after a while. So.
Oh, that's interesting.
No reason to ever close that door.
Yeah. So when it started, how many technicians do you have doing these designs and what is it now? Is it just like hundreds of people more or how big has it grown?
Oh, it's way bigger now. It's way bigger now. But I've gone to visit them several times now in Manila. And it's just wild because I talk to them there all the time, right? And we do Teams video calls and out there would be weekly meetings where we'd all get together. So I know them all fairly well. And some of them have been there longer than I have on some of the team leaders and stuff. Oh, yeah. And some of our team leaders are like, They're incredibly talented technicians. Some of the designs they do, they blow my mind. They're absolutely beautiful. And then we have a few of them too that are really those big problem solver type of technicians that you can give them the weirdest, craziest thing and they'll figure it out. And we have some of those too.
That's amazing.
And just because I am a technician and I did a lot of designing back when I worked in labs too, so I was able just to kind of like talk with on, you guys got to use this tool for this. And then we just kind of go back and forth trying to figure stuff out together. But we have some incredible technicians there. We have this one guy named Ace. He literally built our denture department. He's an incredible, he's incredible. And we have dentists that work there. We have technicians. We have all sorts of people with different dental backgrounds. Wow.
You know, that's fun. I mean, it's not funny. That's odd because you usually think of outsourcing design. I don't know why. I never really thought they were technicians. I just thought they were people clicking mice and moving stuff around.
You should come with me one day, Elvis, to come check it out.
I was going to ask. I didn't want to be rude, but I mean, if I'm being invited, I would love to go.
I want to go back. It's been like a year since I went, but it's great.
Where did you say Manila?
Manila, it's in BGC. So it's like very big city. It's very beautiful, like the city there and very techie too. There's lots of other like big tech companies that are there as well. There's a huge Telus facility there as well.
Wow.
Yeah, but you go there and we have the whole floor is set up into like different teams. So we've built built a whole design center around like a team leader who is most of the team leaders have been with us since we opened the facility in 2018. And they lead their whole team. So they're really the person that's in charge of the communication, doing all the QC for all their teams units. assigning their team to which lab they're going to be designing for. So they really kind of like manage their own team. And they'll be like, there's rows and tables set up and the team leader sits at the top of every. every table and then his team is all sitting there behind him. And then they have big screens up there that are telling them their units with their team leader's name on it. It's very cool.
Do they use the evident software to keep track of their designs?
I bet.
Come on.
No, They don't? It's completely different. No.
That's crazy to me.
Our whole platform. Yeah, no, the evident design, the software is designed for labs, right? It doesn't work the same for this. When we get a digital file in, it's back in the portal in the next 12 to 24 hours. It's in and out, right? It's just a digital file.
That's the turnaround time.
Yeah, so everything that goes in there is coming out as fast as possible, right? And it's funny 'cause when it was smaller, it was like a lot easier to manage and make sure everything was going back there, but as we began to scale, then we had to and started seeing like those human errors of files not being uploaded properly or... the wrong file type being uploaded. So that's really, that's really when like we were like, okay, we need to eliminate a lot of these manual like uploading and downloading and start automating a lot of that. And that's when we started putting all of that in place. And that's kind of where the idea was centralized around EbiSmart today, which is automations in workflows, right? And reducing the amount of manual touches to digital files.
If we gave out awards for segued into...
Oh, I was just gonna say. You totally like segued right into that.
It's like I've told the story before. She's like.
You 2, I'm going right into this. I've had enough in my history. We're going here.
It's almost like when I'm on social media, which I never am, I don't even see Evident anymore. All I see is EviSmart.
And that's why we're here.
Yeah, tell us this, tell us this story.
It's our name now.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Oh, hold on. It's your name now.
Yeah, we're Evi Smart now. So it's, and it hasn't been that long that we switched it like last year in January to Evi Smart, but we were going back and forth through a lot. And I mean, we still use Evidence. It's still out there. Everybody still remembers. us as evident, but it's changed, right? And the reason that we did change it too is like, we're evolving as a company and we really are looking towards being more well known for like software and SaaS sales rather than outsourcing for designs and really focusing on that. And we wanted to like align that name with our new direction, which is EviSmart.
So you've got to give us the digs on the name. So did you guys get in a group and be be like, all right, we're going to change the name and what's it going to be? And how did you come up with that?
It all came from Paolo. He came up with the name and then he played around with like how we're going to put it, how we're going to like connect it all together, right? Across all the different services that we have. And so EviSmart is the name. And then within EviSmart, we have autopilot workflows, which is what we're calling the platform for all of the services that we have, which would be like lab management software, the CAD designs, and then autopilot, which is the workflow solutions.
Awesome. I had no idea. So I thought EviSmart was just like one part of your company. So you actually changed the whole name.
Yeah, the whole thing is EviSmart now.
I'm going to be one of those crotchy old men that refused to call you anything else other than Evident.
That's fine. I'm also evolving as well, Elvis, so I've decided to move to Katherine. So you have to switch to Katherine instead of Katie now.
Really.
I'm evolving too. It's a transition. It's a slow transition.
It's about time to grow up.
I went Barb to Barb Warner to Barbara.
I got a sort of call to you Barbara now.
Yeah, I'm feeling you.
When you try to switch it, Barb, does it like stick or do you have to keep telling people to go?
To work at it.
Yeah.
You've got to work at it. Like this is who I want to be. And I want you to and respectfully and just be nice about it. But yeah. And then after a year, you're like, listen, mother . Sorry, Elvis. You called.
Me Katie one more time, Elvis.
I'm going to shank you.
And you thought you were going to be the one worried about your cuss words. And of course.
I love you broke the ice on that one, Barb. I love that.
I like Katherine.
All right, Katherine. Yeah. Tell us more about what EviSmart does.
So I guess like part of that would be like what my role is in it, right? Like Evi Smart is really just like...
Not Katie, what does Katherine do? Yeah.
What does Katherine do to like do this, right? But it's really all about, it's designed around helping labs like grow and scale without having to add more people in, without having to add the head. Yeah, so smart.
Yep.
Oh, and be smart.
Yeah, and be smart. That's why.
Barb, you're smart enough to figure it out. Okay, sorry. Please, Katherine.
No worries. No worries. But a lot of it was just kind of also developed around really trying to understand, our customers' challenges and what they're facing every single day. The industry's not easy to be successful in. I don't know if it ever has been. Maybe long, time ago it was, but it... It changes so quickly, right? Like everything changes so quickly in this industry. And I don't think that's going to stop anytime soon. But the only way we're able to really like look at like what we can do, how we can provide something that's going to be a solution for these labs and actually help them overcome some of these challenges is by really understanding those challenges itself. And that was kind of like, what are people looking at in their lab, like staffing shortages, right? Which has been a huge one for years now, but also to not being able to hire anybody and still grow and. people are seeing a lot more digital. So they need to hire people just to plug holes in that digital workflow where nothing is speaking together, nothing connects, right? So there's so many touch points on a digital file before it is even fabricated or in a physical pan, right? It's just downloading, uploading, data entry over and over and over again. And really focusing on like how we can eliminate that so they can utilize that, the people they do have in the lab for more like value-driven tasks and activities in the lab that can focus on making the crown a little more beautiful than the competitors, right? Or providing an extra level of customer service because they have more time to do that now. So really like focusing on how we can reduce what they have to do so they can do do more in the lab.
What does that mean, Katherine? I mean, like, who are we, who are we helping? I mean, just like case entry with the lab manager.
I know, leave it to Elvis.
He's like.
All of them, everybody, Elvis. Everybody. Like, we want to, we want to get through the whole department. Obviously, the case entry piece is a big one for a lot of the labs and having enough admin to do all of that. So it's usually where we start off. But, you know, when I first start talking to a lab, And part of what I do is I start working with them and my goal is to really be able to have a good understanding, a deep understanding of what their actual workflow looks like and every touch point of that case in their workflow down to the file naming structure, how they're organized, how they're sharing it with other departments. Like all these different things.
I'm sorry, but do you find similarities in labs doing just that?
Yes, yeah. And it kind of like part of it is something that I really love about technicians and they're just very creative problem solvers. And I don't know if you agree with that statement, but they just come up with these different ideas and solutions when they know that there's like a big challenge. A lot of labs have a fairly large challenge when it comes to getting digital models done at the same time the crown is coming out of the furnace and having those line up and match at the same time so they can finish the crown.
We do.
That's a big challenge for a lot of lives, right?
We do. Yep.
And so, I mean, there's great, other than Ebby Smart or outsourcing, there's a lot of other softwares, like Carbon has a great system with the Carbon Backpack, and everybody's coming up with solutions for that problem, right? But some of the labs, even before they were using that, they create different workflows or different workarounds to try to solve problems like that within their workflow. So some labs will have a QC and model department that's happening before the case is even getting entered, or some of them will have QC at different points in their workflow and do the case entry at different times, but they all kind of are a little bit unique and different, but typically there's a lot of patterns of similarity around all of them.
I imagine the filing system must be, to use a barb word, a show. just all those, all that data and people just throw them in folders. And sometimes you open up a folder and you're like, there's files in here since that are 10 years old. Why are they still here? They're not in order and the naming system is messed up.
And it's so important because to have those properly organized, otherwise you're if that becomes a pattern, you're missing, you're going to lose your dentist pretty quick.
Especially with removables, because we're all selling these digital denters as I can just hit a button and make you another one. Well, if I can't find the file, I can't.
Yeah. And a lot of that is just like a lot of labs use different platforms to do it too, or have multi-locations that are using WeTransfer or Dropboxes and all kinds of different ways of sharing files and moving them throughout the lab. But that's kind of like what we're looking at. What are the ways you're moving around these files? How are you naming them? What are you doing with them? Where are they going next? And then looking how we can build efficiencies into that by just connecting some of those pieces together or eliminating some of the more repetitive ones that, they don't really need. So it can take a, it takes a while, even working with Derby. I think when we met up with Reed in Chicago the first time to, and we told him, me and Guy sat down with him and he was telling us about. his express line and we're like, that is incredible that you guys are able to do it. blew us away that they were able to kind of be able to get that at that time. And then we told Reed and Basil about what we were trying to do with Evie Smart and the workflow and they loved the idea too. And that was still when it was very, very still just new, right? So we've been doing it now for three years, but the first year it was pretty small. So we've been really kind of focused on how we're going to really grow that and what we need to do to make it work for labs.
So was Derby the beta lab or?
No, we had a few others that we were already working with and beta testing with. We started out with just our, what we call now our EviSmart downloader for a beta testing with labs. And that's really just, connecting to the iOS portals to download everything and centralize it into like a local folder for the lab. So that was just the very first step and that's where the beta testing started.
So this thing automatically, sorry, but this thing automatically goes to iTero and Trios and all these places and grabs all your cases and puts them.
Yeah, so that was my question. So you read everybody.
Yeah, and I think we have over 16 now.
Wow. There's 16 of them.
16 portals.
Yeah.
16 portals.
There's 16. There's more than that. We're still adding more. That's way more than that. But the average lab is using 8 to 9 at this point.
That sounds about right.
Yeah. But because we are like global, we work with labs like all over the world. We do run into different portals once we get into the UK and stuff like that. Right.
So yeah.
But that was the first part.
Yeah, downloading those files and getting them organized.
Exactly. And then of course, because we have our lab management software, that was perfect for starting to begin testing how we can make that connection and upload it into the lab management software too. So for those labs that were using our software, those were the ones that we first started with.
So it would automatically download it, but it would also automatically check the case in.
Yeah, so after it downloads the case, it does store it in still in a folder for the lab, and it would automatically print the RX, so the RX that the doctor has sent over. So it's connected to the printer to automatically have that print out. And the labs like that because the admin could just grab it at that point and know that there's a new case, right? It's kind of that trigger to let them know. And then we just loop it in to create the case. We do a lot of mapping for the dentist codes, the product codes, and then the case will automatically populate in. in the lab management software and in the attachments, we attach scans and the RX, so everything's right there for them, ready to go and be printed so they can stick it on a pan.
What happens if there's like a question or if everything's not filled out correctly or like how does that?
Yeah, well that was a problem, Barb. Especially when we first got started. It was a big problem for a lot of labs because when you're just doing the mapping, it's just going to populate like... from where the shade is supposed to go into the next field where the shade is supposed to go, right? But doctors notoriously don't fill out information correctly, unfortunately. Or they have, or there's like 5 different names for one product, like night guard or NG or thermoplastic or whatever they want to call it, right?
Fixed partial denture. My favorite one.
So we had to like add in additional rule-based logic. Logic into the programming, and then since then we've also created AI that is going to be flagging cases with potential issues and scan QC as well, and so we've added all of these things into it to be able to catch those errors. and correct them. But if the information is not there to correct it, then the case gets flagged. So the admin team knows that they potentially need to really go through this one or call the doctor for more information.
Which I can see that taking about 80% of the labor away and then it switches to flagging and then you've got your staff to call. Which is kind of pretty awesome, to be honest with you.
And it's become like that first, that initial QC layer for all the labs, right? Where, of course, AI's still getting better. We still got a ways to go with it. Even ChatGPT, you know, everything is still evolving and still getting better, but it's become like that extra layer for labs to catch those problems. problematic cases before they end up getting put into 3Shape. Because a lot of labs I talk to, they don't have any type of technician QCing a case as soon as it comes in. It's only when it's like getting into their design software, Exocad or 3Shape or whatever they're using that the technician is actually taking a look at the case. Some labs do have it before, like lots of labs kind of have different ways of doing that QC. But a lot of them, it's that point that someone's actually taking a look at it. And that could be like into the second day, sometimes more that it's actually getting checked and then the doctor being called. And our whole idea around this was if we could get that call to the doctor a lot sooner or even just half an hour or even 10 minutes after they've sent that scan, then it's really going to give the labs an extra edge when it comes to that customer service piece. And also making sure that they're reducing the amount of delays and just cases that are sitting on their shelf for days, right? So that was the whole goal of what we're trying to do by getting that information to them faster. For us.
Yeah, who QCs these cases?
When we first started doing it, we had a team that was doing the QC. But since then, we've developed AI to do the QC and the filtering of it.
So it's looking for what, missing, missing data, bad margins?
Yeah, holds, bad margins, no undercut. It's very specific to what it is.
Why is a doctor not doing that, y'all?
Have you never talked to a dentist before, Barb? Like, being new to the industry?
Oh, you're hilarious. Why the onus is not on them. They can see it now, right? It's on the screen. They can see the undercuts, they can see the holes, they can see everything. And still they hit submit.
Yeah.
And then we got to in turn do the QC.
We don't have to anymore. EviSmart will do it for us.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know, but still.
I hear what you're saying, Barbara, but.
Yeah. And that's just that's just like the tip of it too, Barb. Like the stuff that they write on the RXs, like how is anybody supposed to interpret some of that sometimes? It's pretty crazy.
If you can even read her.
Yeah. Or it's just like they send like an implant And they say, screw retain crown, but what kind of implant is it? What scan flag did you use? What, like, there's so many questions you can't just say, give me an implant case, right? Like, what's going on? We need more.
Is there a way that we can drive this back to the client, being the doctor, and have them, like, advocate for them filling out the RXs more correctly so that we can actually automate more.
Well, that would be amazing if you figure out how to change a dentist's behavior, Barb, then you have found you struck goals. Yeah, we're going to open up a business together, and we'd be amazing. If you have that, you could sell that secret for a lot of money, Barb, because nobody else knows how to do that.
I think we need to beat them. I think they would beat them personally.
Yes, I just want.
To make sure I heard that.
Be the humorist.
Of course, of course.
Maybe you could just charge them an extra fee for every time you forget to enter. all the information we need, you get charged an extra dollar for every piece of information you're missing.
But honestly, don't you think that your life would be easier and everybody else's life would be easier if they were to submit things correctly and accurately for the AI systems to read them and just put them right into production? So we didn't have to worry about guessing.
Yeah, that'd be great. But I think part of, I think the reason they behave that way, I think is partially labs and technicians own fault. Sorry everybody for saying that, but it's true. Like no matter what the dentist asks for, they just bend over and, you know, do whatever they need to do to get them that way. And that's where they come into the problem solving and stuff too, right? Okay, they want it this way or they want it by this time. And they just say yes. And it's become, when you see a lab at a bigger size lab and they grew and they've been there for a long time, there's so many different problems. product codes. There's so many different dentists that wanted a specific way and everybody, and it makes it really like unscalable as a business because each one is handled so individually and customized to what that dentist wants. It makes it really difficult to grow a lab like that.
Well said, yeah.
So they've kind of done it to themselves in a way, but.
Yeah, Barb, how often do you make it work?
Probably 10% of the time, to be honest.
There you go. They're used to it.
Could you imagine it? But if you say no to it, they'll go to the next lab who's going to make it work?
For sure.
And that's the truth, right? So, and labs know this, so they make it work because they know they'll just go somewhere else because unless they do have a really great relationship with their dentist and they do have that loyalty with them, otherwise they just have to do it and make it work.
And everybody's going, oh, it's that guy. Just make it work.
Exactly, but if you do figure it out, Barbara, please let us know.
Yeah, it's kind of funny 'cuz we have several other modules that we've been adding into the EbiSmart services and the product line, and we have... We have the downloader, like I mentioned, the QC, the case entry, and our newest one, which was the one I was telling you before we jumped on the call, Elvis, the digitizer.
Oh, that you got a big award for?
It's a group award. Don't say that. Yeah. Great.
That's what we named it.
That's what we named it. But it actually came from a problem. So a lab was, you know, like struggling to figure out, they still get a mess of analog cases. And we're working on this workflow already for their digital cases, but this is still like a really big intake bottleneck for them is getting all of their cases entered in manually. And then as well, there's like, they were trying to get everything entered in before they even send the pan to the model room for tracking, because it's a big lab, like they don't want to lose anything. So they have this problem of like, how can we solve that? And the solution that we were working on them with was like, we'll prepare like a digital RX. that they can access on this like customized portal with your products. It's your logo. And we created like this customized, like beautiful portal for the doctor just to like easily click this picture, this picture form is selected. There's the digital RX sent, right? And so we're like, that's how it's going to work. And then we just have to get the doctors to use the portal. But we spent like a long time building this custom A long time. And then none of the dentists would use it. No matter if they gave incentives, we even provide them like tutorial videos on how to use it, how to submit your case, incentives for using in the portal, and nobody would use it.
Why do you think?
Because they're still doing physical impressions.
They're still writing the paper or X, sending it, and that's they wouldn't use it. So that's why we need you to solve the problem for us, Barb. So how do we change their behaviors?
We beat them. I told you.
We beat them.
Stop beating our clients. Stop advocating violence.
That are listening to this podcast. I'm just joking. I really want to be too, but I kind of do.
But yeah, so that clearly wasn't a solution that was going to work, right? So, well, that's not going to work. And then I was trying to come up with some other ideas, and this was one of my early morning, I have a great idea type of day. Nice. All this.
Yeah, coffee induced.
And I'm like, why don't we just like use, do you guys know what OCR technology is?
He does.
It's like the same thing that people use on their tablets when they write out a word and then it puts it into text format for you.
Yeah.
So why don't we use that kind of technology to digitize the already handwritten RXs and then we could loop it into our workflow. So we worked on that for a while and turned out to be a solution that would work. So that was the digitizer. So Basically, all the lab has to do is scan their paper RXs, and then they upload them, upload them to the computer. Obviously, we still need to somehow get the image of the paper RX. And the OCR translates it to computer readable text format, so we can then map it into their live management software for them.
Wow, I want to be that smart.
So then it will automatically get scheduled.
Yeah, so that was kind of a new one.
But you mentioned that this only worked with Evident, but isn't Derby using a lot of this? And we don't have Evident.
Well, that's where we started, right? Just using our software for the first labs, but since then, we're very much working to make it available to all labs on lab management softwares and really growing that. So using different things like AI agents and APIs so we can have them use their own software. And that's the whole thing that's made it really, I guess, really popular too, because you don't have to switch your lab management software to use it.
Yeah, that's huge.
Switching lab management software is a total nightmare for a large lab. That's a huge, huge lift to be able to do that and reset it up, retrain everybody, get all your data there right when your guys are already using one that you're happy with, or yes, so being able to kind of use whatever software they have and hardware and have everything connected without actually having to change anything like that. has made it been something that's doable for all labs, right? Rather than having to limit it to only labs that use our software that are in our ecosystem, we can work with all labs.
And so are they like calling you guys saying, we need this, we need this, we need this?
Well, we still have.
I bet they are.
We don't have to cold call as much as we used to. But I mean, the first couple of years we were doing it, was still kind of a new idea for a lot of labs. And I mean, your digital workflow, like end to end, like that's the backbone of your lab, right? Like there's... There's nothing more important than that if you're trying to get cases out the door. It's a big deal. So, and we've recognized that too, right? So it's more about like, let's not just work on everything right now. Let's start at one point and continue to make steps as we go through this together, right? So it's not just, let's get started on EviSmart, turn something on, and now your lab is all connected. It's not it at all, right? It really is a process of going through where it's going to add the most value. And that's part of like what I do with the labs too, right? After I get a better understanding of what their digital workflow looks like, it really kind of helps me identify like where those bottlenecks are in the lab and which ones are, you know, going to add the most value to get rid of right away and really help them out. And then we kind of work on what pieces from there and really kind of build that like blueprint. print of what their lab's going to look like after we're done, after we're done using EviSmart, right?
EviSmart can actually, I mean, it's customizable for labs. It's not like a one solution for everybody.
Yeah, each one is different.
It sounds like you really go in. Yeah, I imagine.
And it could be from other things too. And we've been working on like a lot of partnerships to connect it end-to-end. Like Awcam is getting super popular these days with automated nesting. So we're working with them on labs that that use that so we can like automated nesting is great, but somehow the file still needs to get into the portal, right? So somebody's still going to have to drag and drop it or rename the file before it goes in there. And so looking at like those touch points of getting it into that software and automating pieces like that so it automatically connects there and the design goes where it needs to go.
I love it. Awesome. I love it. So Katherine, are you able to design A crown? Can you Do you still design A crown? When was the last time you designed a crown?
Must be like years ago since I last designed a crown. Great question. I still know how to use three shape. That was what I learned on was three shape, right? And I know how to use Exocad a little bit too, but not as well. And I could still design A crown, okay? I even back in when we had our first sales team, because I was the only actual technician on our team, and I was able to show, having that knowledge and background was really giving me... extra help in growing my account. So we're like, okay, well, we have to get everybody to learn at least the basics. So I would have little Friday afternoons designing for dummies and teach the whole team how to design crafts.
Okay, so you still know it. That's good. It's awesome.
Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's been great. I mean, I do like sales now and doing that. I don't know if I'll go back to working in a lab. at any point. But I always have had this like image and this idea in my mind, like when I'm older or like when I'm 60, I'll just open up my own little lab in my house and that's what I'll do in my basement. But who knows if that will happen? I mean, the industry's changing so much. 20 years from now, where will it be, right? Who knows? I love that.
Well, what can you do? Just have EviSmart just do everything up to design, right? I mean, you could actually open a lab and not even see anything. Anything, right? I mean, just have you pull it, book it, design it, nest it, and the first time you see it is when it's in your machine. That's insane.
And you can even have it already milling, so you just take it out and do it. It's actually what we have named the final third is a phrase that we've been using is, and the whole idea is, you know, reducing like all of those touch points so the lab can focus on what makes them unique, what's going to differentiate you from the massive like glidewells out there, right? Like what makes you special? And taking away all of those extra pieces so they can focus on the customer service, consultations with their dentists, or even working chair side with them, right? And all these other things that they can utilize that extra time for to really, give them an extra edge in the industry.
Well, Katherine, Wilcox, thank you so much. That was some fascinating stuff. I had no idea. I'm not going to call it evident, I promise. Evi Smart. Evi Smart.
Maybe this is the podcast that we needed to really kind of put that into place. Evi Smart now.
I love it. Thank you so much for coming on to tell us story. I love the fact that you are an actual technician. I actually, I didn't know that.
I swear I've told you that before.
Well, maybe, but I probably just forgot. He's a guy.
He forgot.
Fascinating stuff. And of course, I imagine we'll see you at the next show.
Yes, we will.
Absolutely. And we'll have to like go out and cause some trouble again, Elvis, like we did at the Chicago show. That was not me.
If anyone wants to ask, that was not me.
So anybody got hit by a chunk of cheese outside their hotel?
That was.
Might have been Elvis. I cannot imagine that would be.
All righty. We're not ending on that note.
Not him.
All right. Thank you so much. Thank you, Katie.
That was amazing.
See you soon.
Awesome. Thanks, guys.
All right, so before we continue, Elvis, what is up with the story of you throwing the cheese out a window in Chicago?
Well, I'll tell you, it was about four years ago, maybe three, that Evident at the time was having a party. I get to it near the end, and they had a spread of food, and I was hungry, but that spread has been pretty picked. And by the time I got there, that cheese has been sitting out for... a couple hours maybe I don't know I got up there I picked one up I put it in my mouth it was not the greatest and I just chucked it out the open window so and unfortunately Katherine saw me from across her Katherine did and she won't let me live it down and now everybody knows the story.
That's awesome you've got to do that in Mallorca for us I don't know.
And they have better genius.
All right, so a huge thanks to Katherine for coming on our podcast to tell your story and explain why Evident is now EVI Smart, which I really love that name. It makes a lot of sense to automate a lot of the steps in the digital workflow, and all of that will allow us to scale better while being more productive. If you guys are interested and want to learn more about it, head over to evismart.com to see all that they have to offer and see if your lab's a good fit.
Definitely worth checking out.
You know it.
All right, everybody. That's all we got for you. And we'll talk to you next week.
I'll see you in Dallas. See you in Dallas. I should say, hope you have a nice Easter.
Bye.
So you worked your *** off all day is basically what you're saying.
The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.