Joe Manti, Western regional sales manager for. Here we all know zirconia is a hot topic. There's a lot of information out there, but also plenty of myths that could lead to confusion and misconceptions. That's why I teamed up with Jeff Smith. I was director of Technical and Digital Services to tackle the questions we hear all the time, from strength and translucency to processing techniques. We've got the answers for you, so please join us for an honest conversation based on real world experiences with zirconia. Don't miss out! Watch now and get the clarity you deserve. Simply log on to IBO or connect using the QR code available on the voices from the bench webpage to listen to this webinar. Welcome to voices from the bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email at info at voices from the bench and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 384 of voices from the bench. My name is Elvis. And my name is Barbara. Barbara. Yeah. Are you feeling better? Last week, you were kind of under the weather. Yeah, I was big time under the weather, but Joe gave me a shout out and asked me if I was feeling better, so that was cool. Is that what turned you around? Oh, well, it had to have been after he listened to the podcast on Monday. So I think it was Monday afternoon. So yeah, it was good. Yeah. And then suddenly you were feeling better. I was. What about you? Power of Joe. I'm doing all right. Kind of busy. I see online that a lot of people are complaining about being slow, but apparently not here in the Midwest. No, we're not slow either. Yeah. I wonder what's going on. I mean, usually this time of the year, school, you know, or whatnot. Yeah, but, uh, I'm cranking it. We have our ebbs and flows in the industry, and it's usually right now it's slow, but you can never put a finger on it anymore. Not anymore. There's no rhyme or reason to the craziness that we do. Yep. Oh, I just whacked my finger with a blade last night. My little pinky. I probably need a couple stitches, but I've got it bandaged up and I just hit it and hurt a little. Sorry. Work related. No dishes related. Isn't that the truth? Right into a knife. Oh, we're at the lab all day with sharp objects, flames, all sorts of things. We go home and try to cut an apple and almost slice a finger. Bingo. Ask me how I know. Yep. So we're finally here in August. Summer is kind of wrapping up. Like I mentioned, kids are back in school, and officially the race for the future is now next month. Wow. So that means it's your chance to donate as we run and swim at the triathlon. So on September 14th in Fort Worth, Texas, dental technicians from around the world. Okay, probably just the US, but you never know. Yep, we'll meet up way too early on a Sunday to swim, bike and run in the greatest race ever. Now all you have to do is donate some money. And that money goes right back into this amazing industry that we all love so much. Yes, sir. All you gotta do is go to dental lab foundation. Or on this episode, show notes for a link to donate. So you can either put all your money on Team Barbara Warner. Yay! Do it, do it, do it. Who will be running in this year's race? Or you can put all of your money on the Crown Jewels, which consist of Mark and Allie Williamson, Brandon Smith and myself as we will be doing a run slash swim combo. That's pretty sweet. Who's your swimmer? That's Brandon Smith. All right, that's the scary. He doesn't have to. And he chooses to swim. Yeah, we all know there's something wrong there. Yeah. So please open up them wallets and give back to the profession that has given you so much heartache. I mean, joy, heartache. Oh, and also real quick. Our good friends at Avoca are hosting a pretty cool two day course for their program, Mill Cam Software. Next week, August 14th and 15th in Amherst, New York. Anybody wanting to learn to use their Cam software, or maybe just brush up on tips for better milling should check it out. Head over to this episode Shownotes to learn more. Iowa class academies are pretty good. I know if you're using a program mill, which I guess is the program in all their mills, I would definitely check. Oh yeah, for sure. And it's two days. You can meet some cool people. Go up to New York and learn. It's a cool facility, too. I've been there. It's really nice. So this week we are back with two more conversations we got while at the XO cad booth in Germany at IDs. Yes, we're still showcasing these conversations and there's still a few more left. This first one is two amazing people from Ireland that are not just looking out for their employees, but for all of the dental labs in Ireland. Paul Dowling was the son of a dentist who had a lab in the shed in his backyard growing up. Nice. You heard that right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Paul ended up in London going to a pretty intense lab school before coming back to Ireland to open up his own lab. While Paul was great at making teeth, he wasn't so much at running a business. But that's when he recruited Jackie French from a dentist client of his. In the partnership was form. Paul talks about the early days and having one of the first digital systems in the country, and Jackie talks about finding out that working in a lab is not so easy. Yeah, and took it upon herself to make a better lab for the employees, and was soon spreading the word all over Ireland. Then we get to meet Thomas Bosco, who joined us all the way from another building, which is all the way at IDs. I mean, you're talking a mile. Tom is the global technical product manager at Iveagh, and he's been there for 14 years. He has seen some serious advances in technology, that's for sure. Tom talks about his background as a lab technician, the creation and timeline of the mill denture. I have a class new inventory system for labs and of course, the new I motion based printed denture that Elvis couldn't keep his hands off of. I saw you. They're nice. They feel like analogue dentures. So join us as we chat with Paul Dowling, Jackie French and Tom Bosco. Voices from the bench. The interview. So this is super exciting. The last day for us. Yeah, but this actually still goes on for another day. Have we determined it's Friday? It's Friday determined that this is day four, day four for us Friday at IDs 2025 at the exo CAD booth, two people came up to me who I actually spent a little time with in Chicago, which is fun because they knew Julia Glancy. I'm going to work my Jacqueline French with two F's. Yes. How does that happen? Paul Dallas. Love. Dowling. Dowling. Dowling. Yeah, yeah. Dowling Paul and Jacqueline from Ireland. The emerald I know and I love the accent. Exciting awesomeness. Well thank you for having us here. Absolutely Barbara I got lucky and popped in just in time. Just running a little late today. It's a little late. It's okay. See both of you. I was a little late too. I just won't admit it. So you all who owns the lab? Both of you. This is a bone of contention. No, I own the lab. You own the lab? So. Paul. Right? Yeah. Paul owns the lab. What's the name of the lab? The lab is called PD ceramics. PD ceramics. Is that an initial? It was a really cool name. It's his initial years ago when I started out, but it probably needs jazzing up now. Yeah. So tell us your story. I mean, how did you get into dental technology, all of that? I suppose I had no choice. Um, no. You know, I come from two generations of dentists previous to me. Their uncle and father, grandfather, grandfather, dad, uncle, uh, grand uncles, that sort of thing. They want you to be a dentist. They say it's kind of a long story. In my last year in school, before we got to college, I got a tumor and all of this sort of stuff that got to be sorted out. Um, so it prohibited me from going to college and studying dentistry, but I was always very good with my hands. And, uh, I have a creative side, so I didn't necessarily want to deal directly with the public. So my dad said, listen, why don't you go and study to be a technician? Nice. Because we always had a little lab beside the house when I was growing up. He would do. So he was all the little bit of lab work, very, very artistic. So wait a minute, a painter, everything. That side of it. So when I was a kid out of the house. Oh yeah, yeah you're right. Yeah yeah yeah. We had when I was growing up as a kid with the house. The surgery was a couple of doors down. He had a little dental laboratory behind the house. We knew it as a shed. Yeah. You didn't order the shed? No. It was. Maybe it was his man cave, I don't know, but literally, it was a show. It was a shed. Yeah. Yeah, that's what he did. He did. He was a very, very talented, um, uh, artistic guy who, out of frustration and probably this is a popular thing to say. Yeah. Um, he just had bad experiences with prosthetics labs over the years and decided, he said, you know what? I can do this myself. Wow. So he did. That's very profound for back then. We hear Dennis doing that nowadays. But that was way back in the late 60s, early 70s through the 70s when I was growing up. Yeah. So yeah. So you grew up in that shed playing. So you were around making plaster casts and models. I did that sort of thing. You know what it's like then? Yeah. Little buddies, maybe the little dowel pins in them and making faces. Yeah. Maybe he was supposed to be babysitting and he put me in the corner. Here's a block of wax. Here's a knife. You can't really. You can't really hurt yourself. Can you breathe this in? Yeah, I don't think. I don't think you could do it nowadays. Yes. So did you fall in love with it, or did you even know what it was, or didn't really know what it was or something that I grew up with, you know? Sure. But then when the opportunity came to make, you know, you get to a point in life where you've got to make a decision, you know, what am I going to do? Yeah. So luckily, I got, um, an interview to go to the Eastman Dental Hospital in London. Okay. As, as a as a student for four years. So, you know, I was 17. I'm doing what technology to get. So they taught technology. Exactly. Yeah. Nice. So I went to the UK. I went to London at 17 years of age. This little green horn boy from the west of Ireland. It was a it was a big it was a big trip for a young learning curve. Yeah, but it was a good one. Yeah. Um, so I spent four years there. Was it every day? It was school every day. But it was like a sandwich based course. So you spent maybe three months at college, two months in the hospital. Oh. And then actually do in the world. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then through, you know, summer vacation and Christmas vacation, you worked as a full time technician in the hospital. Really? Yeah. It was a great, great vacation. So it was working? Exactly. It was a working college. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how I got started. Yeah. Yeah. And the rest is history. I came back to Ireland. Um. Seems like a long time ago now. Yeah. And so, right after you move back. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did you start doing your dad's work? It was kind of kind of a sad story. Um, I came back at Christmas and set up a new lab in Dublin, and it took maybe three months to get it off after. But you were only, like, 21, 22. Yeah, sure. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah. And I had younger siblings at home as well. Um, but then, unfortunately, he died in an accident. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. It's a Patrick's Day, 1986 on Saint Patrick's Day. Yeah. Yeah. So that was tough, because then, you know, life kicks you in the arse. Oh, yeah. Really does. Sure. Yeah, sure. Um. But I knuckle down, got good help along the way, and, uh, started PD ceramics, you know. And, um. Yeah, I spent all those years building it up, and then Jackie and I came across each other. Jackie was practice manager in one of my biggest clients. Oh. Um. Practice. I was wondering how. Yeah, the relationships. So I needed help. Um. On the business side of things. Yeah, and Jackie kindly agreed to work part time initially. So you stole the best thing she ever did. Did you seriously steal one of your client's employees? Sounds like it. Not really. He's actually. He's actually here. Oh, he's. He's developed a dental product, and he has a standard idea. So we were on his stand yesterday. So? So everybody's still friendly. Everybody's still friendly. Yeah. And I'd love to just say that. Probably about that. Time for both Paul Mohr, who's the dentist, and Paul Dowling as a dental technician was a really good time for me to see how a dental laboratory and a dental kind of system works as an ecosystem, how it's supposed to work, how it's supposed to work. And they had a great respect and appreciation for each other's contributions. And I was working in the practice in the business. I was seeing how challenging it is like to find that lab, to build a reputation and, you know, support and good collaboration with. But equally, I was really interested in business and that was in 2011. I was also a working mom. I was divorced and I needed a second income and very luckily started working with Paul just as a bit of a part time mixer, as we called it in Ireland. And with that, I became so interested and I applied for a post-grad in business and management in Dublin because I wanted to go outside of my local community in Galway and see what was happening in the business world. So what happened was really interesting. I found a company called zircons and on a thing are we know that company? You know that? Yeah, yeah. That was in 2011. And I kept saying, God, how could we bring that into Ireland? We know we we needed something that was like connected system that we could start to build education, trust. And I'll give them a shout out. They were instrumental in me deciding to do a postgrad, but what they also did is they allowed me to understand how we could get reliability, consistency and support collaboration through software. Support for the technical skills and also the collaboration that you need. When you watch the scene in our work on zombies. Yeah. There's a lot of digital. There was. Yeah. Sirona was there at the time. One of the first labs to go digital. Yeah. What did you start with on or what started with? Um. Well, I can go back to normal. Baker scanner. Oh. Uh, 40. Okay. Before already in before he was ahead of the curve. Yeah. Before that, the model 40, was it? Oh, you did start early. He was started in 1998. Yeah. Okay. It was 98. Yeah, yeah. But then we quickly went on to wow. In the early 2000, I bought my first Sirona. I said, funny enough, we mentioned Paul Moore and he was the reason really that pushed me into in-house digital and milling how he bought the in surgery system. He was my biggest client. And then I said, oh my God, we're going to use lose so much revenue here because he's doing all his own ground. So, you know, we met, he told me he brought me up for a drink one night and said, listen, this is the road I'm going down. I'd like you to go on the journey with me. Wow. Um, because, you know, with all these chair side systems, they are quite limited. Yeah, there's a lot of products they can't do. So he said, Paul, don't look at it from the point of view of the business you're losing. Look on it from the point of view of the business that you'll gain from things that I'm not able to manufacture. So that's why I bought the in lab. Then you said, I want it all though. And I was in it and we're still working together. Yeah, but I was the practice side looking at the gaps and what I did. My research for my post-grad was in gap analysis, and I could see that the lab was fulfilling and delivering a product range that Paul Moore at the practice was able to do some on their side, but needed a technician to speak with. And work with and collaborate. And obviously labs are a really critical part of every dental sector globally. And I suppose where I came in then when I did the post-grad, I decided I needed the challenge. I loved the lab side, and the practice had a meaning for me, and I had spent ten years there. But I knew Paul gave me the opportunity to come in part time with him, because my circumstances were a little bit challenged at the time for myself to go full time into his business. But I did eventually go full time and I went back and did a master's. But what was really critical was how fast the technology was starting to grow. We had brought surgeons on to Ireland in 2015 after ideas. We had been here in 2015. It was here, yeah, we were in 2015 and we knew fast. Did you know because you started at 98 and now it's 2015. That's not fast. No, but the technology has started to leap forward. Yeah. It didn't trickled and then it leaped. Yeah. And to make to make kind of a space in the lab where it's a busy dental laboratory. Your head is down. The business is happening. Yeah. You know, the orders are coming in. When you're a technician working on the technician, you're too busy to run the business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we we we had a very good relationship in the sense of Paul was doing the technical work, and I was challenging. Well, why can't we do that better or why where are we failing here? Or why is that customer not happy? And a lot of it came back to us as individuals. So as, as an individual, there's no point me buying a milling machine for the lab and saying, okay, this makes business sense. We can make many more crowns. Yeah, well, let's keep it simple. Yeah. We needed to add education. We needed to add on a vision for the future of how we can build the team, to believe that their identity and their career is really aligned with supporting their whole life. And dental sector is part of that life as well. How big is the team at this point? We only have a team of 12, 11, 12, but in saying that we want to expand and what we had, the really great advantage of doing in the last number of years is post Covid. We looked in 2021, I returned to the lab. I took a year off and I came back and Paul was burnt. What did you do when she took a year off? She took a year off. Imagine so burnt out. That's the code. That's the reason I came back. And I saw the guys in the lab, and I went, oh, my gosh, we cannot stay here, guys. We can't. I'd had a year's break, so I probably knew what that felt like, even though I really didn't get a physical break. But I had time to think. I'd just finished my Masters at the end of 19, and I went and I had looked at strategy and leadership in it, and leadership began with me, me realizing, okay, I'm weak here, what can I do to improve it? And it's the same with when an impression is wrong. Okay, how can we help that dentist? Are we moving to analog from analog to digital? How can we make it better? Because we are no more than Paul's voices from the bench in Ireland is very clear. He wants to support his customer. And when we went to Chicago, our goal the last number of years was to get to Chicago, to get to lab date because we wanted. Yeah, and we got there this year. So we're so grateful. We're standing here to you guys. Yeah. All because I sat down and had a chat. Julie was sitting there. Julia had been thinking, and maybe Ashley, I think you knew Ashley as well. Yes, yes. Ashley Bird and I think we all have the same heart when it comes to mind in our sector. And what we knew in 21 was that something had to radically change. And there was a lot of oral health in Ireland, the oral health policies coming to life. It's called smile and it's really like that. Yeah, this is our native language in Ireland. Gaelic, yeah. Means health, good health. Okay. You know, so I thought it meant I don't know what a smile like smile and good health. Smile I like that. Yeah. Sounds like a monster. That's what I was thinking. I don't like a woman who's behind you. It can't be. But it is. Our health is is our monster if we don't get it right. Yeah. You know, same as brushing your teeth. You know, if you don't brush them, you're going to have problems. And I was very fortunate. My twin sister is dental hygienist, so she'll make sure you brush your teeth. But. What we started looking at is the lads were burnt out in the team and sat down with them and I came to Baldwin and I says, how about a four day a week? What would a four day week look like? Oh I wish. Yes that's brilliant. But he listened. And the penguins, strangely enough, the penguins for the first time. But the thing will make me totally renovate the laboratory as well. And I've seen the amount of money as well as first. Well, no, we aligned it because there was no point saying people could go on a four day week without more efficient workspace. Yeah. No doubt. Yeah. It's so true. Units aren't going to go down if you do one less day. Yeah, exactly. And what we did is we took a really quick project time. I think we had it done in 5 or 6 weeks max. And it was really quick while we were still working, and we didn't shut down and we didn't shut down, which was really key. But what we did change was the lives of the technicians. They went on a four day week and it was a ten hour day, but oh my goodness. The innovation, the collaboration and the time given to how they can create it just transformed. And when we did that we changed the lab layout actually. And obviously the lighting and the energy in the lab changed. Yeah. And we started to feel it. Yeah. You have to feel it. And it's like anything it's like my twin. Give it as an analogy. We did a podcast in Ireland last week with, um, that great business show. And Connell Moran is one of the voices that's really there for the business community and in SMEs, which were, as part of the small and medium enterprise network in Ireland, were aligned with the Small Firms Association. So we joined that community because you have to remember, laboratories are SMEs, small laboratories are SMEs, they're part of that ecosystem, but we're part of the business world. Yeah. So we joined because we wanted to step back and go what our other industries do, and they're having the same challenges as us, by the way. Yeah. Can't recruit. There's a dying kind of trade in some of the skill sets that are there, but people haven't actually taken the identity of it and said, you should be proud of this. You are so creative. You're so skilled at what you do. Every year we started to add on another layer of wellbeing. Now, wellbeing isn't about yoga retreats and spa days and massages. It's about simple things and one of the simplest things we did is we went and we started to become lean. We did lean manufacturing in the lab. Oh, that's so smart. Smart? Yeah. Very smart. And it was really something that I'd kind of fought against for a little bit because it's like, oh, we're custom made kind of industry. You know, we do it this way. Yes. I like getting up in that space and walking it all the way across and putting it down. Yeah. So we wanted to look at how we could buy back time. Yeah. We've been buying back time for a long time now, and we're getting to the point where AI is now. We saw it in Chicago. We're here to viewers. Yep. We can use AI as individuals, as a team to go. We can buy time here. Yes. I will sort that bit out. But with that bit of time we have, how are we going to make the career? Yeah, better. And how are you going to stand and align. Like Paul you give that description really well. There were Paul Moore and yourself. You had a relationship, you valued it and you still continued to work together 30 years later, you know. So I still love when he has to pay a big bill at the end of the month, because I know it's breaking his heart, but it's you giving us a voice today. And I'm so grateful that, you know, you're letting us tell other people out there. And I met Kelly Carr from um. Oh yeah, LMT yeah, yesterday. And I have to say so much thanks to them because all we're trying to do is say that, you know, there is a structure out there. You can have a framework that allows you to change how a little lab in the west of Ireland can tell a sector we're safe, what we're doing. Everything we did inside the business was very important so that we can deliver the crown, the bridge, the prosthetic that's going to transform your patient's life. But we're doing it because you can see our team. You can visibly see that we are making sure they're safe in the workforce, that they're happy. And that's the biggest thing. And we're giving them hope. Not everybody does that. No, but a very special thing. It's a special thing. And we want to spread that joy to people that it is possible. Yeah. And I think, Paul, you've seen it because you didn't have it. You didn't have that support. And I look back, I've got three boys and you know, they're they're they're men. Jackie laughs. When I talk about my boys. You know these guys are big. They're they're men. Yeah. They've gone into the world now. But and this this relates back to this is why the three four day week really resonated with me, because each as my eldest son got to the stage of deciding what he was going to do for his career. Yeah, I said, sat him down and said, okay, Ross, um. I've got a business here. I'll send you to dental school and you can become a technician. They'll send you around the world for a couple of years, get experience and come back and take over the business from your old man. Give him a nudge. That's what my dad did to me. Three of them I did because it started with the first guy they came at. Kind of like a two year interval. Wow. And then he kept getting more employees. He said employees. You got to be joking. No, he didn't want to know. Thank you. No. Thank you. Yeah. All three of them said that. Yeah, well, we talk about the first guy first. Yeah. Okay. And, um. No, dad. And I was taken aback. I said, because I thought it was a no brainer. Yeah, yeah. But he saw how long I said before. Yeah. Dad, when I was growing up, you were working seven days a week? Yes. Yeah. I never saw you. Well, he did see me because I was always very mature. I was at all the football games, all the, you know, all the really important stuff. But it was difficult. It was really difficult. But I was working Saturdays and Sundays. Every technician in the world, uh, in our generation. You're the same Elvis. You know what it's like? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and all three of them said the same thing. No. Thank you. Thank you. So it resonated. Then when Jackie mentioned the four day week we got to give. Because we're trying to attract in maybe younger technicians and they're looking at this as a career. Yeah. Yeah. So and they like to like balance work life balance. Two of them know. Um, and culture guys in their 30s, they had their first babies last year. Yeah. So they have a long weekend every weekend. They finished on the third finish on a Thursday. So they have, you know, quality of life. We have to be because we're like in on the west coast of Ireland. Like you can't be any more remote as a European because next up is New York. Next up is America. Yeah. So we're like a pimp. I never thought about that. Yeah. If you were a passenger, we are, you know. Um, so we had to be able to offer something that, uh, technicians from other countries. Unfortunately, it's gone back to the same problem in Ireland. There's no real, um, place for technicians to qualify. Yeah. Into. Yeah. Trinity College take maybe four, 5 or 6 a year. Yeah. And they're trying at least when they get to the end of the course, maybe two of them qualify. So you've got a whole industry looking for those two people. Exactly. So we had no choice. We looked and get creative. You know, it goes back to our collaboration. And it was a collaboration with our concern because we did more. We were more to them than a customer. We did more. We helped them on sales and marketing and stuff like that. We wanted more from the sector as well. And I think the thing that jumped out at me there and it reminds me is like, even yourself, Barbara, you're. A technician, always your technician and Paul, but you each probably have had different life paths where it meant what it meant to be as a technician. And I'm not being biased, but women have a much harder choice to make at times, because we'll step out of the workforce and be at me on the management level, or a female technician or one of our operations team, and what we actually did harness the power of, as well as bringing part time workers back into the workforce. We can't maybe get a full employee, but hold on, why don't we start looking at part time employees and start putting that in? Yeah, and we have like we've changed. So I haven't heard that a lot though that a laboratory doing part time. Yeah we did the administration and we've a part time I love them. You know they've come out of the workforce and they want to get back into it. You know, maybe I've heard it on the dentist side where they're having children and popping in and popping back and doing part time. But it's a really good experience for us. We have a part time technician at the moment working with us. And, you know, just what makes us human too, is our connection to people and its lonely journey. Being a lab owner, it's a lonely journey. Being on the bench at times. Yeah, but it's a lot lonelier when you're sitting at home and you're having a tough day and you don't have a community to talk to. You don't have someone to reach out and maybe even having the crack with the lads, we say the crack. We're having the fun in Ireland, and it is that person who comes in with the apple tart or the, you know, something home baked and a cup of tea or a cup of coffee and we do birthday cakes. It's the small things. Small little things. Or someone will come in and they're, you know, they're celebrating like the boys had the babies last year. But what they were, what we saw with them was they were quite productive in their own lives as well. And they were able to come back in refresh. There wasn't that Sunday evening dread, I don't think, to the job that exists for a lot. Maybe they have a whole week of dread where they're they're going through the motions. But even thank you guys for letting us showcase what there are huge possibilities out there, but they can start with little changes. They don't have to be big. You don't have to turn up in the morning and be like this wonder lab. And I was saying this to Kelly yesterday. It's the little incremental changes that we make in our teams, and give the business leader the chance to believe in the buy in, of making that change. And that's what I would love. Anyone listening to your podcast to hear? My call to action would be if you're sitting there as a lab owner or as an employee. Listen back and remember that there's something, maybe a little nugget in the podcast today that might open up your ability as a team to sit down and go. Could we try that? Is there someone local that might be able to fill that little gap? And maybe that will make more and more improvements? And actually start getting very lean about how you can make the day work, because it's those small changes that made the difference. Isn't it absolutely amazing. Outside your sector a little bit and have a hover around. We're very lucky. Yeah, yeah. So speak about we were preparing. Well, Jackie was preparing a presentation we have to do in a couple of weeks. Yeah. So actually in Galway. Yeah. The the design over breakfast this morning. I'll give you that. I'll give you that insight. So Design Mingle is part of uh um we're very lucky in Ireland with government support to give us, you know, a bit of a boost as well, a little bit of a financial and also a bit of a profile as a sector. So we're working with our local enterprise office in Galway and a big shout out to the team there, Caroline and the gang. They've been so supportive. We're doing a thing called Design Mingle. So you've got a really interesting thing about a lot of the SMEs sector doesn't realise that dental technicians are artistic. They're gamers. They're often, you know, very small medium enterprises. Oh, small. Okay. So smaller businesses, smaller businesses. I thought it was subject matter expert. Oh, exactly. That's what we do. That's seriously. Yeah, but it's kind of the same thing now. I'm glad you said I'm glad you told me because I was like, okay, yeah, but with that design mingle, we're trying to also talk to an apprenticeship program that's coming to life in Ireland. Now we're working with a consortium to try and bring to life. AI methods, where there is an educational element being brought in at apprenticeship level. But the laboratories that are there that have the knowledge, we want to pass on that knowledge. Yeah, it's there, but it'll start also with leadership because there's no point. A young trainee, be them a dental technician or a nurse. The nursing apprenticeship program has just been approved in Ireland, so they'll have an education alignment along with the actual practical. And it can still manage their life, their home life and their work life balance. But what's really key about it is, is that we want to showcase in our area that, you know, in leadership as well, like a young technician coming in and quaking in the boots of a senior technician who's like, just needs to get the jobs done. And they're under pressure. And we've all experienced don't have to be a technician to have that experience. Yeah, they are the ones that need to feel that they can talk and have a language as a mentor. Yeah, and they're the mentee of choice. But with the apprenticeship pathway we're trying to showcase it through the design Mingle to show the creatives that are in the artistic space in Ireland, because a lot of people who create artistic kind of ceramics in one area. But we need that skill in dental technician. So we're missing there's a whole gap there that could be filled. So I think people need to think outside the box. But you know what we're trying to do. And like I said here earlier, I was like, we're in industry. Really? That people don't know about nobody. They never have. We got involved in the Small and Medium Enterprise Board and the Small Firms Association in Ireland, maybe. How many years ago, 3 or 4 years ago, when we did mentors work in Ireland, which is another part of it, to skillset, and that was a leapfrog into getting business support on four pillars in your business. And when they were having I was having conversations with all these IT companies and all these different kind of manufacturing companies and small businesses, and I was going to have same problems as us. Yeah, we're doing something right here. And mentors work gives you four pillars to work with people digital business processes. And I'm going to forget the last one. Um, it'll come to me in a minute. But yeah, but it is all about starting to dig into your business. So back to the point I like. Yeah, there's all of this Jackie's talking about, and we've had great support. And there there is a lot of help out there, but you got to go look for it. Yeah. Um, but the big thing that came out of it for me, going to all these events and talking to people and we would have little our little trade stand alongside a lot of people in the food industry and the fashion industry, you know, all of these businesses. Nobody knew what we did. We were shocked. Nobody understood that somebody. They thought they'd go to the dentist. Somebody? Yeah. Somebody has to make these a little fairy. So we're an invisible drawer? Yeah, exactly. Our dentist goes home that evening. He said, oh, God. I'm. You know, I'm not going to interrupt my family. I'm not gonna watch on TV. I'm going to go out into the shed and make you and make crowns for all these patients. That's not the way it happens. Um, so it opened my eyes up to the fact that we're an invisible industry as regards the public. Yeah. They don't know. Yeah. And we can't rely on our dental profession to promote us. They're not going to do it themselves. They're not going to do it. So we got to do it ourselves. So that's what we've been doing. Jackie is great. You might have noticed she's well able to talk. Um, we love that, actually. I got both of. You know, that's a great thing on podcasts. We're bringing that message out there. And, yeah, just talk about the design Mingle again, because it it opened my eyes up because you have the conscious of the time for us guys in a minute. But we we have another minute to tell. The design mingle is critical because what the artistic space opens and we're with, uh, we're with a lovely crew, actually led by an American lady. Really? Ainsley. And she is just a building the, like the whole scope of what it is. It's creatives. We are creatives. So I think my my goal for the industry and to leave it better when I'm not in it anymore is that that we did something that we we had a voice from the bench. Yeah. Give a pun to your show. That says stand up. Be proud of who you are. Showcase how you are a critical part of what we create every day for dental patients. We transform their lives 100%. We help the dentist. Yeah, and we give the dentists and their team trust. But where that starts with is in the lab. Yeah. Building more strength and belief in ourselves and belief in our teams to feel we've got it. Because not everyone has someone like me coming in the door going. Come on, guys, let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah, but what if we are in a community, a connected ecosystem, as the dental community that want to make that change happen and bring and resuscitate the life back into our craft, our careers, and for everybody, it's an art. It's a very strange business because it comes to so many. You know, we've got to be academics as well. You know, we've got to be able to do it. We've got to have this link between our hands, eyes and brain and this kind of that link has got to be pretty quick. We also. It's true. Yeah. And one thing I'll throw in there is for day, we might work for a lab that's local, but if you have design deficit in your team where you need that remote design, or you've got someone on your team who's been out and who's the designer, or there's someone who can do an element of it that's remote or flexible, we have to start realizing that in our team, we should be able to try and facilitate what we need. Secondly, we are a business. We need to get in front of customers and tell them how good we are. We need to do that seven times a year. Yeah, we need to be visible. We need to be able to be proud and but definitely we need to find a way for the workforce to come together. Create hope, but give back our voice because it's lost and we've got to get the next generation of technicians come through. Not everyone, not everyone is going to go to university. Yeah, that's the biggest thing. So true. So we've got an apprenticeship route for those school leavers who are creative gamers. Maybe they're just really love that 1 to 1 with the creations they make. Yeah, but we also have that other element out there in the workforce that haven't been able to guess the workers, maybe ceramic designers in their arts and craft space. Yeah. Why not look at the profession of dentistry? Everyone is having a global problem with this. So we wanted time stamp awards. Today it's 2025. You know, it's the 28th of March. We see this problem. Yeah. We're all crying about what was actually really taking control about it. Yeah. Because not everyone can. No one lab can solve every single dentist problem. But together, as a community, we can work better to solve them. So. Well said. So I hope that helped you guys. Absolutely. Lab in Ireland. Figure all this stuff. Why are you not on stage? To tell the world? Well, we are. No. We are. You've given us a voice. And I mean, really, thank you so much. Because it was my mission to talk to you. Because I only got a little snapshot. And Julia spoke so highly of you and everyone was talking about. And all our team listened. You know, the lads listened to you. And I've got to just acknowledge one person because he's the reason that I've come across you guys. So I'm not the first Irish technician that you've interviewed. Ah, you've interviewed, uh, a clinical dental technician in Ireland who is doing amazing work. Paul McNally. Yes. Yeah. Paul is a good buddy of mine. I give her a shout out to Paul. You're doing a great job for Irish dental technology. Wonderful. You know, so that's how I come across you guys. That dude is too smart for me. Yeah. He knows what he's doing. He knows his stuff. Yeah. And again, we're all in our own lane. We need that community to come together, and we need to have that global voice. Yeah. Can't be just shouting from a bench. Yeah. Small space to be heard. And your podcast is so valuable. Paul, he's got a symposium happening in Dublin this summer, and he's bringing people from all over the world talking from America. They have. Oh, yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah. So he's out there. You know, he's a nice, quiet guy, but he's doing the business. Yeah. That's fantastic. So. Well, thank you so much. I'm so glad you stopped by. Love what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you. I want it to start there and explode around the world. Oh, yes. And I could talk for hours. I know, yeah. Reach out to us. I'm on LinkedIn. Paul's on LinkedIn. Yeah, we're a small lab. You know, we're nothing. Nothing. Wow. But what we want is for you to feel while walking back into your team and going. Sure, we could talk to them and ask them, or why don't we try a little bit of change, but do the diagnosis start to become aware of what you need? Yeah. Redesign your workday to work for years. A team share the knowledge, but keep reinforcing your message. We're worth this. We're a good lab to work with. Start with small steps. You can't do it all in one go. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Have a great time. Bye bye. You're the bomb. Yeah. Can you work for us? Yes, please. All right. Here we are. Friday, IDs 2025. We're at the expo card booth. But our good friends from Iowa, who we love so much. Sent over a gentleman that says he's the leader in their new evo print. I, I motion based print. I I motion based print. Thanks a lot for the invitation. Yeah. Thomas, how do you say your last name? Bhaskar. Bhaskar? Yes. Bhaskar. Good. I like that name. So he even brought us some. Yeah, that we could get to check out. Unfortunately, we're audio only, but they're pretty sweet. So let's, let's let's go right now. What? What is your role at Iowa, Clark? How did you end up? I am the global technical product manager for removable prosthetics. And, uh. Oh, that's. No. That's nothing. Yeah, that's not a big job at all. Wow. And, uh, yeah, this is our new, uh, evolution based print material. We launched it already last year in October in USA and Canada. And now at the Ides, we launch it here in Europe as well. And also, uh, for the rest of the world. What's everybody saying about it that's visiting? The feedback is very, very positive. Surprisingly positive. Yeah. Um, but yeah, um, people like a lot, uh, the shade of the material, the the aesthetic. Oh, yeah. And also the possibility that you can repair it and rely on it. Yes. Yeah. We were talking, uh, somebody talked yesterday about it. Tobias. Tobias talked about Tobias? Yes. Tobias. Just letting us know that. And I thought that was remarkable. That you cannot fix it. So before we get into this Ivo bass print, I'm missing Ivo bass, our ocean bass print. Yes. You guys have too many, Ivo? Yes. How did you end up at Ivo? Claire? Do you have a lab background or a yes? I am a dental technician and I. I did a study afterwards. Uh. And, uh. Yeah, the degree is, uh, then, uh, a diploma. Diploma engineer in dental technology. That's from what country? The correct name from Germany. Okay. Wow. So you're based here? Uh, no, I'm based in Switzerland, and, uh, I'm working for Ivo in the headquarter. And since 14 years, already 14 years. Wow. Well, then, you know. So how long were you in a lab for? Oh, not so long. I did the education. And after the education, I worked just a half year. And then I started with the study. Uh. Yeah. So did you. Just like you got right in. Yeah. You were like, uh, this isn't for me. The bench work or. No, I want to make, uh. Yeah, I want to stay in this, uh, dental business because I liked it a lot. That. Yeah. Uh, really? My my thing. Wow. And, uh, I want to make, uh. Yeah. Further steps in this, in this direction. That's the reason why I decided for the study. Yeah. So let's see, 14 years ago, right? Yeah. 14, 14 years now with I. Oh, yes. So we're talking a lot of denture teeth, a lot of acrylic. Yes, a lot of analogue. And then here comes the milk bowl denture. Were you big into developing that? I was I was completely involved in developing our whole digital denture system from the beginning on. Yeah. Was that like very stressful? Yes. Or were you told that the good, the bad and the ugly. How did it go to is always stressful? Yes. But, uh, yeah. In the, in the beginning, uh, it was stressful because we had a lot of, uh, uh, projects running. Yeah. And then we launched our first solution in 2015, uh, at that time was the single TS. Yeah. And, and and the build base over mailing. You called it two years later, uh, we launched the oversized process and, uh, again, two years later, again, it's the ideas. Yeah. It's every, uh, the multi and in 2020 the evolution disc. So every single year you guys are always in the forefront, and I think that's where everything you guys do is at such a high level with such amazing materials and innovation. Does everybody at the Dental Technicians think you of the world? Does I have to be like, oh no, we gotta hurry up. Ides is coming up. We got to launch this. Does it like come down to that time? Like we got to get this going before the next Ides or I bet it's always moving forward. Ideas is always a good, uh, situation or a good moment to present new products. And in this case, we have been able already to launch it also. So from this week on, uh, customers can buy this product. Yes. What's the beta like for these? Like the doctors and the patients? Do you keep it in-house or do you give the material and have it used in the mouth. And you have to take a look at it? No, it's not allowed to use it in mouth as long as we don't have the CE mark on. Yeah, but, uh, we give it also, uh, um, some customers before we launch, uh, with the hint, please don't use it in patient mouth, but you can test it and work with it and. Yeah, and give us feedback as well. Feedback is a buzz word, you know that. Yes. Good and bad. Sometimes it's hard to to to hear the feedback. And you might not like it a whole lot, but it works at getting in your head and making you better. So yeah. And then I also ask this testers, uh, to do a showcase for us, then showcase what we can present at the ideas in our showcase here. It's really about showcases. Yeah. So. Yeah. Elvis is over here feeling this denture. And, uh, I'm loving to hear this question. No, I'm. I'm curious on why you guys got heavily involved in the milled dentures, and then, bam, you guys brought out the print because the market develops in this direction. Yeah. And the customers are asking for that. And, uh, yes, the goal of the development was also that the material, uh, behaves like a conventional PMMa. That was very important for us. So it's printable, meaning, uh, it has same properties like conventional PMMa. Uh, it performs in the mouse. Similar. And also for the dental technician, it feels if you grind it or mill it or polish the material, it feels like a conventional PMMa. And that was the goal. That was the goal. That was the goal of development. Exactly. Yeah. So when you grind on this, it's just like a traditional denture. Yes. Yeah. Interesting. And some of the other ones don't feel. And you have it in your hand. You feel that you you like to touch it and it's very light. Obviously he likes to touch it. Now he's over there working it. And I'm not talking about anything sexual. Just say, sorry, I have a car. We can edit that out if you don't want. So. So I've got a question. Go ahead. Do you want to ask a question? So you've got the I have a car inventory system that's not available in the US. But you just launched that at this meeting. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, it's an inventory system to to, uh, support, uh, the inventory of the lab that you exactly see what is what we have in stock, what you have in store. Now, what what the, uh, what we the customer, what the customer has has in store. I'm sometimes, uh, talk about we because I am a digital technician. Yeah. That's so true. You are a we. Yeah. And so that's for the lab. And they use it to see what they have, what what they have and what they don't have, what they need. Uh, it supports also by, by. By the ordering process and so on. So you have all the time. Uh, yeah. So more time to work. And what is time to be working there? And what, uh, what do we need in the in the next few days? Does it only work with products or. Yes. Uh, no. It works with all products. Oh, so other companies, if you buy their product, it scans into the system, and every time you use it, you scan it out, and then it will automatically verified label on the product and do the registration. And then you can put it out. Yeah. Put it in the, in the stock. Yeah. And uh, yeah. If you put it out the system recognize that it's not inside anymore. Yeah. Automatically. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And why do you wait to launch in the US? Why? I'm I'm so much involved in this project, so I cannot say. That makes sense. So much so I know we're from us, so, you know, we should be first. But yeah, but it's weird. Usually. Yes. In the case of a sprint, it was like that. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm giving them. I was going to say you released Ivo print, I print I'll get. There you go. Thank you. He's got his thing. I motion based print that came out in the US first. Is that common to launch things? That's what he said. He just said they launched that in the US. Was that common? Yeah. It's because of the MDR regulation. In the past, uh, the the requirements for FDA have been higher compared to C or the European, uh, um, um, government. And now FDA is not so high anymore. And MDR is more, more difficult or more complex to, uh, to launch products in Europe due to MDR interesting meaning. So it's kind of switching a little bit the effort for all the documentation and, and so on that takes. Longer time. That's the reason. And in some cases we also have to do clinical studies at first before we launch and so on. And yeah, it depends on also on the material class what we have. And in this case FDA, we have been able to launch it earlier or to have it earlier. It's great. Yeah it's great for the clearance for FDA. And then yeah, that was the logical step to start getting things from the USA. Yeah, I know I'm very curious because you've come out with this digital denture. You've had it in the past, but you have a whole ecosystem around it creating it. I mean, it's not like, yeah, I mean everything can be done within the eye of a car. Yeah. So you have a software to scan to design. Exactly. CAD, cam, CAD, all of it. So we are taking care about the whole process from the beginning on. And the process already starts in the, in the practice. Oh yeah. Okay. And we have a special workflow uh, developed. It's based on our concept that was that is a conventional way of suction dentures. Right. Yeah. Suction is also a special way of doing the impression impression technique and so on. But you can also combine it with our concept. And based on this concept, what we already have since several years, uh, we adjusted it a little bit and used it for our digital denture workflow in the practice. And yeah, based on that, uh, we developed the, the complete workflow. And as you said, uh, we have, uh, cooperation partners with scanners, with CAD software, materials. It's our own development because this is our competence since decades. And, uh, yeah, also at the end with the whole milling, uh, systems. Yeah. Are you guys milling for labs? Because we are. Well, we know that you got a new milling center or something. Yesterday we were talking to somebody about that. So? So most of this is on PGM seven or is it on printed? Oh, yeah. Take that out too. This is printed here. But for example, our devotion disk, which is still, uh, new and still innovative. It's new that whole like, oh, we have teeth in base and 1 in 1 part. Still blows my mind how that works. Yeah, I don't get it, but it's cool. You have to come to our booth, and then I can show you. Yeah. We can't find your book. It's so far away. Yeah? Yeah, I think you started. Trust us. We went there the other day, and it was, like, a mile. I think you started walking here yesterday. Yeah. No, no, it's really far away from me. Yeah, we went to the one over here. The hygiene one and the ten. The preventive. We thought that was a preventative one. And then they said, oh no, we have another one. And we were like, okay, that needs a small boost from Iowa. Yeah. That's not the main booth. Yeah, yeah. The main booths are freaking movie theaters. Yeah. It's nice. I've also worked in all our milling machines and also in VHF milling. Milling machines. Yesterday at the moment. Yeah. So we are in contact with, with all the other milling companies. And, uh, for the future, we are planning also to release this product on further milling machines here. No, not surprised if a lab is doing all the workflow and you get to the point of choosing between eyewash and mill and IV motion based print. Yeah, you got it. Now you got it. Yes. What changes anything? Is it just a how it gets outputted is all the same or the output is different? Yeah. Because for evolution with print you need two STL files, one STL file for the base and one for the TS. And then you can. But don't you need that to print. Oh for print. And but mill you don't because it's all in a PDF. Yeah. Yeah. It's one file. But this file is encrypted. Encrypted because it fits in the puck. It's got to line it up. If you if you finish your design, the position of the, uh, of the denture in the disk is fixed and it's not allowed anymore. And also not possible to change the position in the Cam software. Normally you do the nesting in the Cam software. Yeah. This is not possible. It's got to be because of it. Uh, yeah. The position uh, it's not allowed anymore to to change the position of the denture in the disk because then you will not, uh, match the water between pink and white. Yeah. You'll have a little bit of bleeding. Has anyone. Has anyone ever screwed that up? That'd be funny looking. I'd love to see that, like half pink on a tooth and just like, hey, I didn't have it lined up perfect. So what kind of choices of is this? Uh, I'll. Vita colors. There are a lot of different choices for the two colors. They are. They are most, uh, used in the market. And we we are not. We recommend we are using also the the the beta shades. Yeah. Or the naming, at least the naming of. But right now, the evolution based print boom. Getting it every time now is only the pink, only the tissue. It's only the tissue. Because this is our first material for the permanent use in patient mouse. Yeah. For 3D printing. Yeah. So whose teeth are these that you're showing us? These are, uh, teeth milled out of our, of of our evolution then multi disc. So that's the that's the we that's why they look so good. They look good. Exactly. Yes. Um, the teeth are, they're not quite there yet because they're all monolithic. This is beautiful. Well this is the logical first step uh, regarding printed dentures that we will at first the base and mill the teeth. A lot of customers also doing that. This combination. We do that at our lab. I love the milled teeth on a printed base. Yeah, it's the way to go. It's better aesthetic. And so you guys, it's proven material, what it really is. Well, yeah. So you're known for your training. So if a lab wants to get into this. Yeah. You come on site and train or how do how do we train? Yeah. We are offering, uh, different kinds of, uh, trainings or courses in our academy. Oh, yes. And, uh, customers can always get in contact with, uh, with us and ask for for possibility for training. Yeah. What is that? The academy. Right? Yes, it's the academy. Yeah. Everything's huge in America. Yeah, it really is. Is it just as big here in Europe? And, uh, yes, yes, in our headquarter, for sure. There's, uh, I can't imagine we have the, uh, the most courses. Wow. Um, and also focus on different, uh, topics. Uh, sometimes, uh, only cat courses or chem courses. We have also, uh, the academy, uh, where customers can a little bit more into details of, uh, features of, of features and also maybe adjusting something in our chem software. Yeah. So we especially offer also trainings for this year teaches them how to get better. Yeah. What is the printer that I have. What's the name of that Evo? It's a pro print PR five, PR five, PR five. There's a lot of PS and five. Yeah, it's all grown. Five and then a number keeps getting better and better and better. Yes. That thing just recently came out right. Two years ago we, we we had the relaunch of the system. I remember there being, like, a relaunch. Yeah. It was, uh, it was better. Um, it was a better cam software. Yeah. Uh, it was our own developed, uh, cam software. And this is much more better compared to what we had before. Yeah. Customers love our cam because it's very user friendly. Sure. Yeah. Is that the only printer that I can do? I have ocean based print on. No. You can also, uh, use all our printers and this print ray Pro tool, right? Yeah. So we have, uh, um, tested it on the systems, developed the parameters together with with the cooperation partners. Yeah. And, uh, we have the approval for, uh, for this other printers as well. Yeah, that's an exciting stuff. And the dentures you brought? I don't know who designed this. Do you know this is a dental technician from our R&D department? Oh. It's beautiful. He designed systems. Yes. It's a she. Of course it is. They're beautiful. I mean, the I love the latter. The work on the tissue is amazing. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I do a lot of digital dentures. He's looking at the tissue. I'm looking at the teeth. I know you want to look at these teeth. These are. Those are finished. Yeah. And what's the what's the finish Polish. Pretty. Just like traditional. Just real and traditional. So I did this polishing of this denture by myself. Really? Really. You did that? I have, uh, you haven't lost your touch. That's for sure. It, uh. It's not. It did eight of this showcases, and I did, uh, Polish, uh, this eight inch polish. Just not not really. Just polish. Yeah. Wow. It takes approximately 15 minutes for polish this denture here. There's nothing painted on this to make it shiny. No, we don't recommend that. Uh, no, I don't either, because it falls anything on it? Yes, exactly. But it looks like it is. That's amazing. Yeah. And. I know we talked to Tobias earlier, but, I mean, the repair in the line. That's a big thing with dentures. Um, you know, people think I'll just print another. Yeah. Sometimes you can't get another that quick. Yeah. So you can repair this with traditional denture repair and denture acrylics and monitor. Really? A lot of technicians are happy about that. Yeah. And patience. I mean, that's genius. We did talk to him. What is that called? The repair material? Um, it's. I think you can use anything. Anything? Uh, you can basically use anything because the chemistry is very similar. But we tested this only with our material. Is the pro base code. It's the. It's a cold curing material. And, uh, this is the proof for that. Yeah. Excellent. And another thing is chair side soft re line. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the ones you make a digital denture and you use the big one in America. I don't know if it's here. Is soft. Right. And it doesn't stick. It comes out does more things stick to this. And is it more of a chemical bond when you use soft liner? If you didn't test it it so far with the soft lining material. Okay. Yeah. So we need to get figure that out to see if we can get it. Can be soft lined. Yeah, we have to see because we launch it, uh, just this week in Europe. Here. Yeah. And, uh, is there a demand for that? Or if we get more requests from customers, share, then. Um, you're you're all in. We know that we can plan our capacities in the R&D to to do the testings and maybe an approval for that as well. I mean, there's a good chance everything will work with it, and it won't even be a it will be a non-issue. Which would be amazing. Exactly. Yeah. Well, this is exciting. Thank you for coming on. Yeah. Thank you for for this possibility and for this interview here. Yeah. Thank you for being an excellent company. You have a big. And you have a good traffic over there. It's been really busy. It's been very busy. Yeah, it's it's, uh, unusual. Yeah. Especially early, especially the first two days. Uh, uh, have been very busy. Nice. Good to know. Since the last show. Yeah, we have never seen it, too. We're like, is this a lot? Is this a little? I don't know. We only know Chicago. And this is a lot. Uh, yes. It is. Yeah. Well, enjoy the rest of the meeting. Thank you. Tom. Okay. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. A big thanks to everybody that sat down with us and the XO CAD booth at IDs 2025. We love the story that Paul and Jackie are making in Ireland. You know, the funny thing is that Paul was very reluctant to come on the podcast and was just going to watch Jackie, and we pulled him in. But having his perspective and history really brought everything together. So if you want to learn more about what they are doing for all the labs in Ireland, go find them on LinkedIn and give them a follow. And as always, we are always super grateful for all that Everclear does for the industry. We wouldn't be where we are today without them and we couldn't imagine a future without them. So we're happy to know that technicians like Thomas are behind all the great products they make. Thank you. All right everybody. That's all we got for you. And of course, we'll talk to you next week. Have a good week. Welcome to August. Bye. Yeah. That one actually makes sense. That's all you. We do love this story. The views and opinions expressed on the voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guests, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or voices from the bench, LLC.