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So Barb, an overdue congratulations are in order.
Oh my God. What did I do now, Elvis?
Didn't you all recently announce the Simply Arch studio?
Yes, we did.
That's awesome. You know that's right up my alley there.
Of course I do, yeah.
And just for anyone who hasn't seen the announcement, what is this Simply Arch thing?
All right, so Simply Arch is our dedicated full arch lab. So it's high quality. Full arch cases are a big part of what we do. And we wanted a team and a dedicated workflow and a production environment built specifically around them.
So basically just no distractions.
Exactly. Just a bunch of full arch nerds doing full arch things.
Oh God, a bunch of nerds. Sounds terrifying.
It's never terrifying of it.
And does a new studio also mean new toys?
Yes. And of course, we recently brought in as part of the project.
Hell yeah, nice.
Yeah, and then of course came the cam decision.
Ah, here we go, the old cam decision.
You know, Elvis, we tested a couple options, and of course, we landed on Hyperdent.
Like Hyperdent, just as easy as that, huh?
As easy as that, pretty much. The quality off the machine was excellent. So that means also no hand finishing, and the milling time Sometimes we're excellent also.
You're right. That does make the decision quite easy.
But honestly, what really stood out to us was the testing and implementation process.
How so?
You could immediately tell these guys live in a world of high, complex milling challenges.
That's got to build a lot of confidence.
You know what? It really did, and it really does. They weren't just showing us how the software works. They were advising us on the best way to build an entire workflow for our lab. You could tell they've done it 100 times, guys.
That's a whole new different level of expertise. Well, congratulations on the new studio, Barb.
Thank you. Hats off to my dad for the studio. So it means a lot to me.
Aw. Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info at voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 437 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
My name is Barbara Hill.
Still, Barbara, what's happening down there in Florida?
Oh, I actually have a roof leak, which sucks. So I've got a little bit of water coming into my bedroom and yeah. Not fun.
Yikes.
Getting that fixed.
That's crazy. I was wondering if it was going to be your house or the lab, but the house is worse.
I think I would write, yeah, exactly. But it's getting fixed Wednesday. So today I'm just cleaning up all of the **** that it dropped down in my bedroom and getting everything organized. How about you?
I'm doing really well. Indiana weather's terrible.
Define terrible.
Hot and sticky. I mean, it's just like. Oh, you mean my norm? Got it. talked about this before. I'm ready for fall. I'm ready to get out of work, walk away from the lab and it be nice enough to go for a run and not 90 plus and my glasses fog up as soon as I walk outside.
I didn't think you ever walked away from work anymore now that you're running the lab again. That's really not a big thing.
I walked from one location to the other, but it follows me.
I bet it does. I bet it does.
So hey, I noticed online Cal Lab has a new social media.
Yeah, we're gonna really bring it in August, but we're just doing teasers right now. So yes, we hired somebody. She's amazing. Her name's Susan. And yeah, when we had our board meeting, she did a bunch of clips and then she's gonna just start rolling in August. And I'm super excited because I think we need to come to the party with social media. It's really where it's at. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So thank you for seeing it.
This is the opportunity to plug it. This is how it works, Barb. So What used to be Cal Lab is now called Official Cal Lab.
I know.
Instagram, Facebook. Those are the only two I go on. Are you guys doing TikTok?
I don't know. You're talking to me. Go ahead. But tell me, I need to learn. What do I have to do?
Well, you go to Instagram and type in official Calab.
Right.
All one word, could be underscored. I don't know. Someone in Florida taught me that's a thing. But yeah, I mean, start following. All right now is a video of a bunch of people sitting down.
I know. I texted her yesterday and she's like, well, we launched in August, so it was just a teaser. I was like, okay.
We're at August 10th now. So get on an official Cal Lab.
I think I meant September. Sorry. My bad.
Oh, yeah. That's a long-awaited teaser.
Yeah, we'll see. We'll see if we can bring it up a notch. But thank you for recognizing.
Absolutely. And everybody, you know it. We talk about it. Barb's the chair. We love Cal Lab. On social media, follow their official Cal Lab site. I'm sure you'll get more than a teaser eventually.
Yes, you will. You might get things you don't know, you don't know you need, actually.
That's the greatest thing about the internet. I don't need any of it, but I have it.
That's awesome. All right, so what do we got going on?
Yeah, this week we got a real treat. You know, there are some people that are just in the world helping everyone that they can and just being super nice about it. That's Philip Gold, and he finally joins us on the podcast. And we get the story behind this amazing, master CVT technician.
Right. And he's such a great guy, sincerely.
One of the nicest. Philip grew up in his father's lab that was started back in the 40s. And as he grew up, it wasn't easy working with family. Never is. So he had a stint at Williams Gold Company that later became part of Ivoclar. But in the 80s, Philip did go back to the family lab and ran it until technology made it necessary to look for options and then he sold it to NDX. But luckily, his daughter and a friend opened By Design Studios that has given him the space to continue to do what he loves and share it with as many people as possible. So join us as we chat with Philip Gold. Voices from the Bench. The Interview. All right, Barb and I are super excited today. Long time coming guest. What? I can't tell you how many times I thought to myself, we gotta have this guy on. Phillip Gold, how are you, sir?
I'll tell you, I'm great. You know, you're talking about long time guests. This week, I kind of went on site and just listened to a lot of podcasts. and looked at the guests that you've had and you've had so many of my great friends and mentors and people I'm just great fans of and people I weren't fans of yet until I heard the podcast.
Oh, that's awesome.
So would it be safe to say you did some podcast prep work?
I did. I did some work. Look, I studied all night long for this.
Well, you must have, 'cause there's like 460 some odd episodes. So that'd be a long night.
I can't believe how many eight years you guys have been doing this stuff. The impact that you have. And I'll tell you what's been so impressive besides the people you're talking with and how you're talking with them and interviewing them. It's the knowledge you guys have grown and developed in this industry. I mean, you guys know product, materials, equipment, procedure, it's really kind of fun, fun to hear you.
This podcast has made me a better.
We don't retain that information. I do. Okay, yeah.
Well, you take good notes while you're going then.
There you go.
So just real quick, guys.
Elvis, you sound like you're in a funnel.
Do I really?
I can hear you, but you sound far away.
That is so weird.
There you go. There you go. Whatever you just did.
Better, better, better.
Sorry, Philip, this is how we make things happen. Yeah, that's better. Talk to me.
Okay, good. Yeah, no, is it good?
Okay, yeah, that's perfect.
Perfect. Awesome. Well, Philip, we always like to get the story of how people get into this crazy industry. So let's hear it, man. How did you figure out making teeth was an option?
How'd you find dental?
You know, I was listening to your podcast and I was hearing Denise talking about people are either, they grew up in this industry or they just, I can't find it, right? And so I grew up in it. Oh, nice. It's kind of like with you, Barbara. You know, my dad started a laboratory, Raymond Gold started a lab in 1946. So I was pulling teeth out of formaldehyde bottles when I was probably 12 years old.
So you were a lab rat like me?
Yeah, I mean, dad would sit there and say, give me a first molar, find me a second molar, find me a right lateral. And I'd be looking in these bottles of formaldehyde with teeth in them and pulling them out as a little kid. So I hadn't gotten away from it. I've ventured out a little bit, but this is where it came back to.
Why were the teeth in formaldehyde?
Well, yeah, years ago, you know, you could have Teeth in bottles, right? You can't you know that he had doctors here in Atlanta and they'd do the extractions and he'd take these extractions and put them in bottles and just study anatomy, right? It's how you'd look at natural teeth and form and color and.
I thought you meant you were using these teeth and put them in dentures.
No, no, no. Maybe kind of fun?
I just want to let you know after eight years we have never heard that. That's pretty spectacular. saving my molars and things like that when I was young so I could study them. Yeah. But I never heard of that. That's crazy.
Oh, it was nuts.
What a great way to learn.
Oh, gosh. But, you know, I wish you could do that. I wish you could do that now. You know, you can't get teeth anymore like that. You can't get the extracted teeth. It'd be great to have them pull them out and pull them out and pull them out for everybody.
So how did your dad start a lab? How far back do we go?
Well, he got into it in the army.
My dad got into it.
Yeah, I heard the story about your father doing that as well. And that's what dad did. He actually ran a laboratory. He was a master sergeant and ran a laboratory. And when they mustered out, it's kind of funny, he was here in Atlanta where the lab was. And when they mustered out and they just kind of let everybody go after the war ended, everybody in the lab said, Raymond, what are you going to do? I guess I'm going to open up a laboratory. And they said, Can we do it with you? And I think he had those guys with him for about 20 years.
So he basically had a lab waiting to open. When they shut it down, he moved everything over and he was their leader and they knew it and he knew it and he did it.
And it was the same format in that laboratory because I was in it growing up, right? It was almost like a long hallway auditorium and the benches were all lined up facing a platform stand. His bench was on the stand. So his bench would be in the front of the lab and he could watch everything that was going on, right?
His bench was higher up than everyone else's.
Yeah, it was. Well, you know, you gotta remember you're in the military, right? In the military, you know, that was the... That's where you went to. You went to the head person, they stepped up on their platform and you showed them your work and he adjusted it, talked to you, whatever. So yeah, he had an overview of the whole place, which when I was a little kid and I'd be in there working, he'd yell at me from across the laboratory. He'd be doing something I shouldn't be doing, right?
Of course, yeah. So what sort of... What lab was it? Was it fixed, removable, both?
It was, well, you know, 1946, you were doing gold work, gold shell stuff, a lot of soldering. You were doing a lot of removable work, more so than you were, there was not really any ceramics works were going on.
Sure, absolutely.
Because it wasn't, so help me with that. So it was mainly gold.
Well, it's mainly gold. You're doing a lot of wood material. When you were doing acrylic facings.
Yeah.
So you were doing, you know, metal work with acrylic facings. What just I had a PE, justy PE was the name of that. No, what was it called? Prolifact, justy PE. Anyhow, but yeah, a lot of acrylic work. So you did acrylic, you did metal with acrylic?
Yeah, so you really grew up in it. I mean, you spent days there after school, summer.
Yeah, yeah, spent a lot of time in the lab.
Cheap labor.
But it was cheap labor, but I learned an awful lot. I mean, gosh, eventually the laboratory was oral arched in a lab here in Atlanta and had it since 1946 and eventually it got shut down in 2017. So we had it for a long time.
So why shut down if you don't mind me asking that question? I'm sure it's emotional, but.
Well, you know, it was, it's eventually I took over the lab in 1980 and I had the lab for my dad since 1980.
All right, so you skipped that whole part.
So we're working our way through the story. You're still a kid. Let's keep this and we'll go.
Yeah, But now, yeah, so what about being a kid? Tell me.
When did you start working there? I mean, were you doing it as a teenager? I mean, when did you take it serious?
I actually went to work there in 1974, and we just had... There was some friction in between us. I was in there in the lavatory. I said, I got to step away from this for a while. I just got out of the Marine Corps and I thought, yeah, I need to find something different than being in here under my dad's.
Been there, done that, Phillip.
Yeah, I understand.
It's hard work.
Wait a minute, Barb. What'd you do? What'd you do when you stepped away? I didn't know you worked anywhere else.
I went to work for the Williams Gold Company, which is now Ivocar.
That was my dad's first partner worked for Williams Gold.
Well, Vic Williams is great friends with my father. And Vic said, you want to come to Buffalo? And I said, I don't know about coming to Buffalo. So I moved to Buffalo. And I worked for Williams for close to seven years.
And what do you do, like sales?
Well, I started out in the education department, just making samples for their sales reps and stuff. They had an education department. Ivor Clara Williams has always been great with education. We were up there way back then in the 70s doing stuff with education. Gold just went from $32 to $124 an ounce to $900 an ounce. And they're bringing in non-precious metals from Germany. They were bringing in Wyron and Wyronium. And we're learning how to cast it, how to melt it, how to cast it, how to sprue for it, and just learning all the dynamics of that. So I did that in the education department, then a territory opened up for sales in New York State and Pennsylvania, and I took that as a territory, and eventually they extended my territory to Virginia, Maryland, and Wow.
How old were you? Do you remember?
You had to have been early, late 20s.
I was a kid.
Yeah.
Yeah, 20 years old. I was just a kid. I was absolutely the youngest person out there playing a game out there like that. But I had a great time. I mean, I learned so much. I went in so many laboratories. And I saw more in those years in these labs and talking to these folks than I would have sat in that laboratory at Oral Arts for 20 years.
100%. You learn so much when you go.
Was your dad okay with you leaving?
He was okay with me leaving. But he was okay with me coming back too.
He was probably ready for you to come back.
Yeah, he was.
So I hear a lot about back in the 70s and 80s when there were training. I mean, you know, you got to remember no internet. There's no other way to get education. These things were packed and it was almost like an event. I mean, It was more of a weekend rather than just like a day course.
Oh gosh, it was so much fun. All the education was going on around that time. And of course, you didn't have the internet. We had internet, but you didn't have what we have right now on Facebook and Instagram and the dentistry you're seeing today. And you've seen so much incredible dentistry. It's absolutely beautiful. It's mind boggling from all over the world. And back then everything was over the shoulder and we didn't even have video. I remember the first time we were to put some videos together at the Williams Company, and they brought a giant camera in to make some beta. Was it beta? VHS? Yeah, beta, yeah. With Sony beta tapes. Yeah. And it was the funniest thing in the world. We were all, as a sales team, we were all trying to learn to build a three-init anterior bridge, right? That's how we were trying to teach how to use the Wilson Ram porcelain anterior bridge central to the cuspid. And we're talking to this video camera. And none of these folks, including myself, we've never done that before.
It's hard talking to a camera. I got to be honest with you.
It's hard talking to a-- It's awkward. While you're trying to build porcelain, it's sometimes very difficult to talk. You're concentrating on your porcelain. And they videotaped me, and never in my life have I said the term or the phrase okie doke. I got to tell you, I must have said when they played that back, I must have said okie doke about 300 times.
Oh, were you mortified or what?
I'm sitting there going, well, you add the incisors, the mutual incisor corn okie doke. Now you go over to the okie doke. So I was okie doked.
That's hilarious. I'm surprised you haven't put that on Facebook.
I was gonna say, I hope this video exists. I never see it.
Oh my gosh. Now I'm gonna be okie doke for the rest of my life. Anyway.
It's funny the weird things we say when we get nervous.
But why do you think you said that? Is that from your roots? Is that a phrase you use or is it just nerves?
Never even heard it. I think I was trying to instruct and my words okie doke was saying, Do you understand?
Do you see that?
Look at what I just did, okey-doke kind of thing.
Were they at a point where Elvis is amazing and edited that out, or did they leave?
Well, they didn't know how to edit anything. We just... Oh, sure.
Back in those days, you'd have to actually cut the tape and tape it back together.
Oh, yeah, I guess you were great.
Yeah, it's not worth it.
These were a long time ago. It's a lot of fun, though.
Yeah, I bet.
Now you know what not to say, right?
Okey doke.
Touché, touché. So you said seven years. So you did that for seven years. And then how did you know you wanted to make your way back to the lab and obviously take over? And did you and your dad have a conversation or was that just you?
Well, we had a conversation, but not in the beginning. Actually, I came down to the laboratory on a temporary thing. He got sick and with him being sick, Vic said, Vic, said, Philip, you ought to go down there and try to help your dad a little bit. I told him, I said, I'm really happy doing what I'm doing. He said, you can always come back. He said, go on down there and help him. So I did, and I ended up staying. We stayed, we talked, and I stayed, and we did a time frame for takeover period. That's what.
We did. Aw. So somebody gave you advice that you should go, but you were thinking you might not. But I think that's the right thing to do. I mean, it's your dad, right?
Your dad didn't ask you.
Well, he didn't have a management team at the time. He didn't have anything around him and he wasn't doing well. And so came down and just kind of, it was an adventure because here I'm a the owner's kid walking in the door. And these guys didn't know me from Adam, really. Just my name and who I was a little bit. But that was an interesting time frame for all of us, really.
So talk about it.
Yeah, you had to convince these seasoned technicians that you knew what you were talking about.
Yeah, that's tough. I did the same thing. I was 23. So yeah, kind of tell us about it.
You understand, right? You're going through.
Yes, I do. It's hard.
It didn't work so clean and smooth for everyone. And we had some transition because of it, not because of me making that decision, because of them making that decision. Right. And so a lot of hours working, trying to get it all back together and build a team that was a good team around us. And we did, you know, the stick to it just because the commitment that you make, not just the people around you, but your client base, you just hang with it until you get everything together and your ducks in order. And that's what we did. And the people, gosh, I've had some wonderful I've had some amazing people around me and have been part of this career that I've had. And so many of them are still with me. It's crazy to look around the room in our laboratory today here at By Design. I've got folks that have been with me for 32 years.
Yeah, me too. I'm so proud of that.
It is so cool. Yeah. So yeah, it was a big learning experience and a growing experience for me.
When you came in, did a lot of people like resist it and fight against it or just quit or what was that like?
Well, you know, it was just different work ethics.
Yeah.
More than anything else. It wasn't the dentistry they were doing. It may have been the work ethics they had around them. And I didn't walk in the door and throw my foot down and tell everybody what to do. I was really pretty, I'd done sales for a few years. So I wasn't coming in and being a battering ram. I came to the lab, we were trying to help everybody and get everybody together with working as a team. Some were amazing and some just didn't want to be that player with me.
Well, they were probably used to your military-minded father that was very sitting above.
Well, yeah, gosh, he was, I was still a kid. he was a three-season guy.
But let me ask that question. So you came out, you left for seven years, then you came back in and you said you wanted, he didn't have a management team, he didn't have any tier levels. Being that young, how did you figure out how to go in and restructure and build A-team and figure out who's the leader and who's not the leader when you didn't really have any training with that? Well, you know, a lot.
That's true, but you know, I've visited a lot of laboratories. I had a lot of opportunity to visit laboratories when I was working for Williams. And different size. I mean, everything from what the norm is to a two-person lab to 130-person laboratory. So I got to see a lot of things that people were doing. And I made a lot of friends in the industry. So I reached out to people.
So smart.
Plus I had Vic Williams up in Buffalo and his brother John. If I called them on the phone and asked them questions, how to handle something, they would give me some insight as well.
So you just reached out to all your friends. I mean, we always talked about dental being like- Accessibility shortcuts.
Yeah. Well, you know, that phone- Use the tab key to navigate. That phone-to-phone idea, right?
Can you guys hear that?
Yeah, what is that? I don't know. Use the tab key to navigate.
I don't know where that came from, but-.
You know what happened.
Can you hear it, Phillip?
No.
Okay. I'm not sure, Elvis. That might've been on your end, my friend.
I don't have anything else open, interesting.
But I mean, that's a great point. I didn't even think about you being in all sorts of labs. So you just soaked up everything for seven years, learned more than you could possibly think of being in a lab, and then came back and used all that experience to rebuild your dad's lab slash your lab moving forward.
Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. And the thing is, there were already people in place that were The right folks, they just weren't doing those responsibilities at the time. Yeah.
Right people in the right seats.
Hey, guys, I got to tell you. Oh, hey. Look who walked in my door.
Oh, hey, Denise. Hi. I have a question.
Give it up.
How did y'all manage to get an appointment with the legend without going through his management team? No idea.
Ask Elvis.
It's Elvis's fault. Charm, charm.
It's all your charm, Elvis. How's it going, guys?
It's going great.
Better than it should, my friend. How are you?
Better than I should be.
Yeah, that's what I always say. Grandkids good, daughter's great.
Yeah, everybody's doing well. They're keeping me in line, especially this guy.
Well, you know we miss you. I miss seeing you at the meetings. All my love.
I had to come in and interrupt because I never get to talk to you guys anymore. I love it.
So good.
I love it.
All right. Well, y'all take care. Love you guys.
Sorry. Thanks, Denise.
Great, Denise. Thank you. Isn't that great?
That is so great. You work at such a great place now.
Yeah, and we're gonna get into that story 'cause that fascinates me, but until then, yeah.
You mentioned that you had a lot of friends help you in the past, but all we hear on this podcast is how back in the day, nobody would share secrets, nobody would talk about, nobody would help each other. I guess that's not entirely true.
Well, no, I don't think it was true. I think there was an awful lot of camaraderie out there, you just had to be accessible for it. You had to be, had to ask for it. I don't think anyone was ever afraid to give information if you asked for it. I really don't know anyone's ever turned me down with many questions I've had. Don't you think, Barbara?
Yes. I mean, our industry is ridiculously amazing. Even though we're competing in some sort of arena, we always are open to helping each other be successful because I think at the end of the day, there's so much work to go around that we use the sum of all of us to make us great. So yeah, I agree completely.
I agree too. Yeah. It really is. And way back then, way back then, you had an international ceramic symposium that was going around. You had a group of amazing teachers. You had Tanaka going on tour. You had Tanaka and Culp. And you had guys from England. You had John Hubbard, Mick Kedge, they'd come across and they'd teach segmented building and just incredible stuff. You go into a program for the weekend and just so much neat stuff you could learn. And you bring it back to the laboratory and apply it. Just go right out to it. everything they give you was something that was usable.
Do you think your last name helped you at Williams sell gold?
Do I think the last name helped me do what?
Sell you gold with Williams.
No. Well, I'll tell you what it did do. Since the name of the company, it was a Williams Gold Refining Company.
Yep.
There was a number of times I said that I was Philip Gold with Williams Gold. And that now is part of the company. Yeah.
Got you in a few doors, probably.
It did. It got me into a few doors. And I used it.
Yeah, I bet.
My dad's original partner worked for Williams Gold. And that's how they met in Detroit, Michigan in 1968. and then they collaborated together and moved S to create Knight Dental. So Knight Dental and King Cast Partials, I think there was King Cast and I can't remember the other name, but it was all based on the gold company. It was weird. It was kind of like the medieval, if you will.
Oh, I see.
Yeah. So it was King Cast, Castle, and Knight Denil. So they were all medieval characters. So yeah, it's all based on Williams gold though. It's pretty cool.
Isn't that funny?
Sorry to interrupt y'all.
No, it's all good.
You're right. Well, I'll tell you, Williams is such a player in this industry for so long. Well, all the manufacturers were. They all competed intelligently and they competed fairly. You know, you had Stern, you had Nay, you had Jolinko, and they all had great education out there.
Yeah. Jolenko. That's another great name.
Yeah. Yeah. So I really enjoyed selling for those guys and visiting laboratories. Yeah.
So when you started back at the old, the lab, what did you change? Did you bring in new equipment? Did you add new product or was it just kind of status quo?
No, it didn't. At the time there was a, not really bringing anything new or anything with equipment. The lab was already a full service laboratory. We were doing crown and bridge ceramics, partials, dentures, so it was full service. I just came in and just tried to, and I've already been in it a number of times, everybody knew who I was. They just, I wasn't the authoritative figure to walk in the war. And I wasn't trying to be the authoritative figure, I was trying to just make everything passive while dad was recovering. But, maybe I didn't do such a good job at the time, but I've learned from that.
What year was that?
What year was that?
Yeah.
Oh, gosh, that came into that laboratory, probably. 1980.
1980. Yeah. So we weren't in the aesthetic revolution yet, right?
We were always in the aesthetic revolution.
Well, okay, good point. But when did all like, Empress, when did that all come about?
I don't know when Empress took off. It's been a while now, but it's got Empress probably 30 years old now and isn't something like that.
Google it, Google it, Elvis.
Like, come on. Well, didn't Emax, didn't we just celebrate the 20th?
Yes, for sure.
Yeah, recently.
So. The 20th of Empress.
Emax.
Emax.
Emax. Yeah, well then Empress has got to be another 10 years older. You know, Empress is great. I mean, before that we were doing, gosh, We were doing jacket crowns, platinum foil crowns, and PFMs. So you had an awful lot of porcelain fused to metal and the jacket crowns we were doing.
So we kind of left that out. Like, were you at the bench? And if so, what did you specialize in? And what is your first love? We talked a little bit about it, but as you transitioned, did you go back to the bench?
I was at the bench. Yeah, I was.
God, I've seen your diagnostics on Facebook, just saying.
Yeah, that's what I'm doing here mostly is I'm doing waxing and diagnostics. I can get up and walk away from it. It's not like ceramics where you gotta. Yeah, there with it. So, but no, I, when I came back in the laboratory, I did crown bridge, did waxing, finishing, then went ceramics, and I went where I needed to go as people transition away from me.
Yep. It's kind of nice to have all those skills where you can fill all those voids. It's wonderful.
Well, you know, dad told me a long time I talk about dad, right? But he said years ago, he said, you got to learn to do everything in the laboratory. You don't have to be the very best dad at all. You got to understand it. You got to know how to troubleshoot it and teach someone how to do it, guide them a little bit as a resource. Because if you are, then you're not. you're not held up by anybody. You're always able to be that resource to somebody and get someone else to help you with what you're doing. So, I learned everything we were doing in the lab.
And your dad, was he okay? Did he come back? Did he see you through to the transition? I don't know that story, and forgive me for that.
No, that's OK. I'll tell you what's so funny, Barbara. You'd appreciate this, I know. But we talked about a two-year takeover period. I'd take over the laboratory in two years, and he'd retire and be gone. Well, after, I don't know, 16 years?
He's still there, Truman dies.
Truman's still there. and so it was great. It was great having him in here and being in the laboratory and all that. He eventually retired, officially retired in 96. So from 1980 to 1996. He was still with me in the laboratory.
He must have saw Empress come out in 1991, according to.
Oh, see, you Googled it. Good job.
There you go. You did see Empress come out. And thank God, I'll tell you what, you talk about getting off refractory veneers and doing the Empress. It was such a blessing, right?
Yeah. All I can say is.
I can't tell you the nights I was taking these veneers off from the factory and I'd have one and a half, right? And the next morning it was due. So yeah, but the, but so it was, from 1980 to 1996, dad was still with me in the laboratory.
Wow, cool. 16 years after the two year takeover.
That's right, a little bit after those two year takeover. Yeah. So what else can I tell you about the laboratory? I mean, right now I'm in By Design Dental Studio and it's a great place to be. We're having such a great time. I know that you've interviewed Denise a couple of times and she's talked about the laboratory from when it first started to now. And I guess we're going on nine years here and I've been here eight with them.
How did that happen? Closed your lab and then.
Well, so I actually in 2000, in the year 2000, I sold the laboratory.
Okay.
And I sold oral arts to Dave Brown and National Dentex Corporation. And I sold it because I really, I wanted to perpetuate it. My dad already- Can you?
Explain that, hold on, perpetuate it. Like what was in your mind?
Well, a few years earlier, my dad passed away, right? And so he passed and I was the lab. And I had people that have worked for dad and were working for me for a long time. And I looked around and I thought, gee, if something happened. to me, these guys that I'll have to try to scramble and figure out where to go, what to do.
Do you think it scared you straight, as it were, like where you were just like, wow, what happens to me now? Like what happens to them now if something happens to me?
Well, it didn't scare me straight. It just made me feel I had a different responsibility. And I don't know if y'all know Dave Brown or not, but Dave, he was great. And I met him a few years earlier. In fact, dad and I talked to Dave about being an acquisition for him. And dad looked at me and said, please don't sell the lab. And I said, well, I won't. So we didn't. And then after he passed a few years later, I reached out to Dave and I said, you know, you guys, are you interested in the lab in Atlanta? And we went back and forth. He said, send me your P&Ls. So I sent him the P&Ls and he laughed at me. He said, no, we're not interested in the lab in Atlanta. And I said, well, what do I got to do to get your interest? And he said, this is what you need to do. This is what you got to do a little differently. And I did. And I kept sending them the P&Ls. And every other quarter or something, I'd send them up to him. And he would say, you're doing pretty good. You're getting on a good path. And eventually I sent him to him and he said, you need to come up here, Philip. We need to sit and talk. Stop just going back and forth. And I went up and sat with him up in Massachusetts and they bought the lab. So I didn't sell it to lead it. I mean, I worked for him for 16 more years. It was all about positioning ourselves with a really great company that was going to help perpetuate the business, help us develop it and grow it, invest in new new products, new materials, new equipment. That was the idea behind all of it.
Yeah. It's hard to do that by yourself.
Well, it is. And these guys were great people. In between all that, Ashland and Tech sold, and they sold a couple of times. And the second time they sold, our values just weren't the same. Mine and theirs. And I felt they had a great respect for our laboratory and the dentistry we were doing. And I had a year non-compete that I had to do. And I just thought this is not a good time for me to be with these guys anymore. Yeah, I remember that. So I resigned. And I sat out for a year.
What was that like?
Yeah, what'd you do?
So did you work out and run?
I worked out anyway. My son, he wanted to open up a nutrition store of all things.
That's how I remember reading that.
Yep, So we opened up a nutrition store.
So we as in you, you're like, hey bro, I'm helping you.
Yeah, so we opened a nutrition store together. Wow. And so I did retail for the first time and probably the last time. Man, it was tough, but we did that. And so during that year non-compete, even though this new group told the laboratory they were pretty secure not to worry about what was going on, within six months, they closed the lab.
Without you. So once you left, they just like, it wasn't what it was. They couldn't do it without you.
Well, you know, that could be a look at Philip thing, but that's not what it was. It was their values and the people that were there weren't there. And they just, they didn't value customer service, this group.
I get it, yeah.
They just thought everything was a widget and it.
Should- I hate that word.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's what I thought. And so they didn't realize that this business, I mean, you guys know it. This is a relationship business.
No, 100% customer service.
Customer service and relationship. And they just didn't do that.
Yeah.
So they, they closed the lab. So when they closed the lab, this is a crazy story though. It's a long story. I'm sorry. But Denise, Denise worked with me at the laboratory at Oral Arts and so did my daughter Katie. Katie did all the admin stuff, took care of all the purchasing supplies, all the human relations stuff. And Denise ran the ceramic department. Two great brains. So they opened up By Design Dental Studio. Love it. And then after my year non-compete, I came and applied for a job.
So I'm so happy about that.
Wait a minute. Do you know apply a job to your own daughter's business? Did you have to go and interview? Did they like do a bench test for you?
I don't know if I like you, Philip. Can you please do a wax up?
We're going to give you a 90 day trial run.
Elvis, I'm still on the trial run. Every day is an adventure. Every day is a trial. It's all good. Every day is a holiday.
So did they stay with you at NDX or did they leave right away and start by design?
They closed NDX.
They were with you during that NDX phase.
Yes, they were. They were with me the entire time. When I left, they were still at Oral Arts.
Oh, really? Interesting.
So yeah, they came in and fired They fired everybody. Yeah. But not just fired in the closed laboratory.
Yeah, And then did you help them start by design or did they do it completely without you?
Well, he had a one year.
I had a non-compete.
I know, but you could still.
No, we can't on the podcast.
No, of course not. You stayed completely out and you sold nutrition. Got it.
Yep, I sold protein powder. It's crazy.
Well, you got a lot of respect for your daughter and Denise. Like, I remember when that went down and I was just so happy for them for moving out into their own, taking the history, rebuilding, launching a new lab. What's that like for you as a dad to be able to watch your daughter and her partner relaunch and rebuild?
I'll tell you, it is really awesome to see what they've done in here and how they've done it. One of the things, I mean, I had a non-compete and I was actually, because I sold the lab, they actually paid me money to have a non-compete. So it was pretty legit. I had to really work it and-- At staying away. But now Denise and Katie, they did not have a non-compete. But they did have a non-solicitation. Right. So their first issue was anybody knowing they were open. They didn't. contact old employees and say, hey, you guys aren't working now. We've opened a laboratory kind of a thing. So they had a little bit of time getting the personnel around them that they wanted to have and the word getting out in the area that they were hiring. So it took them a little bit and it took a while for them to, because they couldn't solicit the accounts that or a lot's had either. So, it took a little bit. It took a lot of courage and a lot of stick to itness and being out.
Courage, great word.
Yeah. So I'm proud of them. I mean, they got, we're doing great work here. I shake my head every day watching you go out the door.
So how do you get rolled back in? So you're not competes up. How do you get rolled back in? Is that a delicate situation? How did that go?
You mean coming into the lavatory?
Did you make the comment? That, I should say.
Right now, I tell you, it probably was a little delicate for Katie and Denise because they were waiting for me to come in the door and change everything, right? Because they've had a year or at least seven, eight months of... doing it all on their own decisions.
Right.
So for me walking in the door, they were kind of on, I was on tiptoes, and they were on tiptoes as well, I'm sure, because they were waiting for me to change everything. And I didn't change anything. I just, I just, yes ma'am, and just kept on working.
Oh, that's so cool. I love that. It's like, you guys are in charge now. Just let me know what you want me to do. That's kind of how I feel with my son now. I'm like, just let me know. I'm not there yet, but I'm in that passive. Like I busted my *** my whole career and now I kind of like it. That changes. Yeah, I see it.
I get it.
So what do you do at By Design?
Customer service. I do quality control. I'm in charge of business development, I guess, with a good to give me a title. Yeah. But I do diagnostics. When I do analog diagnostics, we still do a lot of analog diagnostic wax ups. So I do that and just help people, help people. We just hired a new gal over in the digital aspect of it. And as soon as I hang up with you, I'm spending the day with her the rest of the afternoon, just what she's doing and how she's doing it and some guidance and stuff like that. So yeah, that's what I do. So I do the quality control, customer service, talk to our accounts, go out and see our accounts and keep business in the house. it's like I've heard you say before, all this, it's more than just going out and getting a sale. It's keeping the people you have.
Oh, it's 100%.
Yeah, I've got to be out there and see these folks. I'm traveling next week to North and South Carolina just to see folks I haven't seen in a while. And one account that we're not working for anymore, just to see if I can change.
I mean, really, you know, so many labs talk about new accounts, new accounts, new accounts. They don't spend the time on the accounts they already have, nurturing them, making sure everything's okay.
Cross-selling.
You got to give them a reason not to answer that flyer they get or the other lab that walks in the door, you know?
Exactly. Well, you know, I've heard a long time ago, I never let anybody, it may not be the right term, the conveyor belt, I never let anybody go. If there's someone that we're not working for anymore for whatever reason, gosh, I'm in communication with them all the time still.
Yeah, you have to be.
I always try to say yes. Like if they call me and say, can I rush this or can I do this? It's like you never say no. Just figure out how to make it work. Unless it's completely ridiculous, you know, and you can't do it. I always say yes to the client. Like they're number one.
And I always say when you mess up and it happens when a lab messes up, drop everything Everything to make it right don't put it back on the schedule and say you need another six days to make it, right? You got to drop everything and make them a priority Everybody makes mistakes. It's all about how you handle it.
And you guys are both part of some amazing laboratories I mean night is incredible down there and and I've always been a fan of Derby up there Did a CDT exam at that laboratory a few years ago, and it was just a wonderful place to be Really exciting.
Well, super cool because Elvis is back in charge. Myself and my son are now running night again. So, I get it. Like even though it's corporate at this point, it's still night. It's still my dad. It's still my son. You know, I can see like your daughter, you can see them grow and see them build. And it's just so gratifying. I can't even tell you. I'd like to retire though, just saying. But I'm too young, but I'd like to eventually.
Well, that's what I felt at National Dentex. It was their ownership, but it was my laboratory.
Yeah, exactly. Bingo. You bring the emotion, you bring the spirit, you bring the, you know, I don't know, everything from your dad and everything that you had moving up to this point. And people recognize that and they like it. It's nostalgic, it's emotional.
Well, it is. And you know, I don't know if it's the older core folks, But our work ethics were, we're first one there, last one out, right? And it's always been that way.
Let's not talk about the current workforce. So you touched on CDT there for a second. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're a master of CDT, aren't you?
Yeah, I think so.
I am.
That's awesome.
Congratulations.
Let's talk about that real quick. Like, when did you decide to start doing that? When did it become important?
I'm on a call right now with the chair of NBC. I mean, so.
Oh, yeah, Mark. That's you. That's him.
That is you. Oh my gosh. And I'm surrounded by just doers. I mean, Denise was also the chair of NBC. And just like Barbara, you were the president and Denise was too. I mean, I'm just like, that's why I was just say, yes, ma'am all around me.
Oh, I'm so passionate. I think we all are. Like all we want to do is give back. And I wish sometimes when I see posts on Facebook that they would realize that we're just us, like we are on NBC We're on any deal board. It's just us. It's not some corporate, you know, it's your fellow employees. It's people that you know, we just want to give back and try to do better. And so, yeah, thank you for that. I appreciate it. And Denise as well. Like, we just love the industry.
All these years that Denise was involved, which is a long time because she was involved in, of course, the local government as well, the state meetings and the Southeastern, and then with NBC and NADL, years and years on boards and committees. With all that, I watched her grow so much. And the network that she's created around her of friends and colleagues is just absolutely incredible. Long time ago in oral arts laboratory, the commitments we made, this is what she wanted to do. And I wanted to be involved in keeping the business going. I mean, my responsibility is make sure everybody is working. And so I spent all my time with dentists and she spent a lot of her time with laboratories out there in our laboratory government. And it's been amazing what she's done and what you guys are doing and Barbara, what you've done is just incredible. And now with CalLab, gosh, I just can't wait to see what they're doing next with that.
It's a lot. Let me tell you, it's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of, you know, trying to get better and responsibility and yeah, just I don't take it lightly. And so thank you for the acknowledgement.
Well, of course I know you don't. And it was really, it was pretty cool, very cool to see that before Billy passed away that you're able to pay him some tribute and honor him.
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, that was important to me. He was my mentor. He was my dad's mentor. I think it would be remiss if we didn't respect the leaders that became before us that we were able to learn from, that were just amazing people and leaders. So yeah, thank you.
I'm really proud of you.
I would include you in that, just saying. You're not there yet, but you're going to be in that club one day.
Yeah, there's no telling. But yeah.
When did you get your first CDT and what did you get it in?
I got it in 81 and I got it in Crowner Bridge. No, I got it in ceramics.
Ceramics.
And then I did Crowner Bridge after that.
They had ceramics in 81, but Empress didn't come out to 91. What's going on here? Just kidding.
Well, no, I'm telling you, when we did it in 81, you were doing your central with a gold foil.
Yeah, that happened.
And I mean, you were going to a laboratory to do the exam and order some kind of facility and you were dragging your ovens and pieces and it was a whole different world.
Yeah.
I sent my oven to Colorado and it arrived crushed.
Oh.
And it wasn't, if it wasn't for the military, they let me use theirs and it was a Jalenko, which was same as mine. They saved my *** and I was so appreciative and I passed, but that was a lot of stress.
It was really stressful.
NBC's made it a lot easier for us now to achieve our certification, which I appreciate.
They have, because it wasn't for the faint of heart to do that different in the past.
No doubt.
With the examiners.
So how many do you have that makes you a master? Five? Is it?
Six, maybe?
You have six though.
Three, 4, 5. Yeah, I got 6. I got ceramics, crown and bridge, partials, implants, dentures, and digital, right.
Oh, you got the digital too?
Yeah, baby.
Just did that last year.
How the hell did you do that? Like even for me, like I'm not a digital technician. Like what did you do? Did you just hang out with all the youngins?
I'll tell you what, it was like Denise and I decided both we wanted to do the digital exam and she did it too. She did it after me. And we decided we're gonna do the digital exam and we wanted to be an example and try to motivate some other folks in the laboratory who would wanna do it. So we got 200 folks that are CDTs in Crown and Bridge, they're in our digital department. and we're hoping they'd want to do it in digital as well. So, stepped out and said, let's do it and practiced an awful lot. A lot of nights learning what I was doing, learning the equipment, learning how to do the mills, learning how to do the printers, learning about the equipment, learning how to fix it when you have errors. So it took a while to get it all figured out, much less learning the the written part of it and then the practical.
That's fantastic, Philip.
I know one time y'all interviewed Denise and I'm sure people have heard this before, but when we do these CDT exams and we're getting ready to do them as a laboratory or anybody in here that wants to take the exam, and I tell anybody that wants to take the exam, they got to rehearse it. We do dry runs. The first Saturday I came in to do this digital one, the practical exams, 5 and a quarter hours, right? And I came in, set the clock, hit the button, started doing everything I was supposed to do. That's what I did. Yep. Seven and a half hours later, I wasn't finished.
Seven.
Yes.
You're like, I got to do better.
No, that was about what I said, yeah. So that next Saturday, I came back here and I refigured out my organization and how my frequency was going to be. I did it all very different. Did this thing all over again, just hit the button, went all through it. And 5 hours and 45 minutes, I was just finishing up. And so I thought I better get a little closer. I got closer. So I thought I got to do it one more time before I do the exam. And I did it that Sunday. I came back in and did it Sunday and I got it in a little under 5 hours. And so I did the exam. I did this. Yeah.
Where did you go? Or did you do it virtual?
I did it virtual.
How did you like that?
Actually, I did. dentures virtual and I did digital virtual.
Okay.
The other ones I did at a location and I really liked them virtual.
Yeah.
For a lot of reasons. For one, I was able to spread out, especially with dentures. I actually, I had a bench of three workstations and I had everything I needed to do set up at all three workstations. So I could just go from station to station to station. Where if I was at someone's laboratory, I would have a small work area. So I like doing it virtual.
Yeah, that's great. I love that. That is an option now.
Yeah. The other thing with doing it virtual, though, is that you got to have a computer on and you got to have your cell phone so they're kind of following you and watching you everywhere you go in the place. So that's a little bit different to have that going around with you.
Wow.
Have you done one virtually yet, Barb?
I've had them done at Knight Dental in this location.
Yes. It went really well.
Yeah, it was awesome.
That's cool.
And it makes everybody, it makes it a little easier because you don't have to travel. You can set it up at your workbench, your location, everything that you're familiar with. It's nothing but positives. And we've heard nothing but positives because, the more CDTs, the better for us. I think it just shows a greater learning and more respect. So I love it.
100%. I do too.
I mean, that's what the whole issue is all about. And you know, when you're setting this up, you set it up the night before and you can have it laid out exactly where your plan is and what you want to attack first and where. And it's really good. It's really great.
Well, thank you for that. Appreciate it.
Are you going to get another CDT or do you have them all? What's left?
Anything left's ortho. And you know, I don't know about ortho.
Come on, you gotta get a full house.
I talked to Harry, I don't know if you guys, of course, I know you know Harry Posad. He just was the CDP of the year last year. And Harry knows more about ortho than anybody out there. And I told him, I said, I'll tell you what, if I decide to do this stuff, will you let me kind of follow you a little bit. And he said he would. So I met Next year may be ortho.
Let's do it, man. That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I've had fun. But again, it's to motivate folks and get other people involved. And we did. We've got a lot of people in this laboratory. Right now we've got five other people that are certified. And I think three of them have three different certifications. That's great. Yeah. At one time I had out of 28 people in the laboratory, I had 17 or 18 that were certified.
Yeah, it's pretty spectacular. I appreciate you. Yeah, for sure.
I appreciate what you're doing to make this thing easier and better for us. And the marketing that is going on right now on the social media about our industry has just been incredible. And to see all these new CDTs are popping up and everybody congratulating one another, it's really fun. Really fun to see and be a part of.
Yeah, I love it when I see a post of someone that just got there.
Yeah.
So positive.
I got to tell you, I was at a study group meeting in Oklahoma two weeks ago and the only technician there and there was a dentist sitting across a room from me and everybody in there knew that I was a dental technician. And he walked up to me, he's a dentist from the state of Washington. And he walked up and on his lapel, he showed me his lapel and he said, I'm a CDT. Wow. I said, get out, really? He said, yeah, I just did it in digital. Wow. I said, how'd you study for it? And he said, well, you know, I had all the equipment. I had the printers. I had all that. So I was familiar with all that stuff. I said, well, how'd you study for the written exam? Listen, this is what he said. He said, I asked Chat what I needed to study for the digital certification exam for dental laboratory. And he said, you will not believe what it pops up. So when I got back to the hotel room, I asked Chad, what do I need to study to study for the comprehensive exam for digital workflow? I tell you what, it's the most incredible thing you ever see in your life, what throws up then. He gave me everything. He even said to me, do you want me to make you, I can make you 500 flashcards if you want to study with flashcards.
No ****. I just had a technician ask me today how to study. So you can go on chat and find out everything.
Yep.
I'm going to let him know.
Ask chat and he's got to be specific. So this is my specialty, this is what I want to do. Do it comprehensive, do it in dentures and chat will just pop it all up. And it'll keep asking you a next question. It'll say, do you want me to do this for you? Do you want me to do this for you?
Wow.
That's fantastic.
Thank you. That's great to know, yeah. I mean, AI is there, might as well use it.
I told him nbc.org or .cert, I can't remember what it is, but Allie Williamson and all of that.
That's what we've done. I took Allie's class before I did it, when I did it in Dentures, I took Dentures just two years ago. And right when Allie first put her classes together and I took her class and I had a great time, I mean, I learned so much, each time I'd done an exam, I've learned more about dentistry than I thought I already knew, but I didn't.
So tell me one more time, what did you ask it?
Just ask Chad, what do I need to study for the comprehensive certification exam for dental technology?
Got it. I'm putting it in now. Uh-oh. Exam. I'm not that fast. Which specialty technology? Ceramics? Ceramics.
Sure, anything you want.
I'm a ceramist, so.
We already have that certification.
Searching. I'm not asking for me, Elvis. All right, got it. Dental anatomy and occlusion, color science. Oh my gosh, thank you. That's amazing.
Isn't it crazy? And it can just go deeper and deeper and deeper.
Yeah, AI.
And you can ask more questions. Thank you. I might be old. Thank you, Philip. You just helped me.
I think you just helped a lot of people.
Yeah. And then again, like you said, Allie, she does a great job.
Yeah.
Allie's amazing. And if anyone can take her courses, I mean, that's honestly the way to go.
Yeah, it really is. It really is. So yeah, that's about it. I don't know if I'm going to do ortho or not, but if I do, it'll be next year.
I think you should. I mean, like I said, full house, man. I don't know how many people have them all, but it'd be an honor to know someone that does.
Yeah, especially you. But I enjoy your Facebook posts and everything that you're doing, your energy, your grandkids. It's your daughter. Like it's been really fun and I'm so happy we finally got to talk to you. So thank you so much.
What a great story, Phil. I mean, I had no idea, but it's always fun to learn.
It is fun. And I appreciate you guys even ask me to do this, you know? Every time I see you someplace, I want to walk up on you, but I don't want to put you on the spot.
Well, we want to put you on the spot.
Give my love to your daughter and Denise. That was cool that she gave us a shout out and good luck and keep going.
Yeah, Phillip.
Thank you so much, man. You guys, all you got to do is shout to me.
Awesome. Well, we appreciate it. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Have a good weekend.
You as well. Bye bye.
A huge. Overwhelming thanks to Philip for coming on our podcast and telling your amazing story. And we had a pop in from the amazing Denise Burris. Hi, Denise. That was actually icing on the already delicious cake. Okie doke. And how cool is using AI to help with CDT testing? Take it from one of the few, and I say, and I mean few, master CDTs that we have in our industry. If it's good enough for crowns, it should be good enough for you.
All right, everybody, that's all we got for you. And of course, we'll do it through next week. Welcome back to school, kids. Have a great week, everybody. Boo.
Too funny. That's crazy. How are you?
The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.