Twenty years ago, Ivoclar introduced IPS emax Barbara: Twenty years ago, Ivoclar introduced IPS emax. And we all know how that has turned out. Hi, Voices, of the Ventures, Barb Warner here and I would like to personally invite you to iaclar'ips emaxs panel discussion, which is on Friday, February 22nd, starting at 3:00 at the LMT Lab Day in Chicago. I will be joined on stage with Jessica Barrell, Stephanie Goddard, Mike Roberts, Jed Archibald and Dr. Ken Malamn as we dive into the world of vmax. After the panel discussion, Ivoclar will be hosting a happy hour to commemorate this 20 year milestone. So amazing. So. So please join us by registering@labdday.com Ivoclar and I cannot wait to see everybody in Chicago. Elvis: Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email@info voicesfrohebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Elvis: I've seen you all over Facebook with Dental Fuel Greetings and welcome to episode 358, Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis. Barbara: And my name is Barbara. Elvis: Barbara. Good morning. Afternoon. How are you? Barbara: I'm good, bro. I've seen you all over Facebook with this Dental Fuel. Talk to me about it quickly. It's pretty cool. Elvis: Yeah. So David Rice, who we've had on the podcast in the past, and we did a, series of webinars with Ivoclar last year, I think. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. He's got a couple things working on his side and one of them is this podcast called Dental Fuel. The whole thing is in dental, they talk about the mistakes before and after, but nothing in the middle. I don't know, that's like their whole thing. And they just asked me to be on it and I was like, sure, let's chat. And it was a lot of fun. It was a long time ago. I know I thought we were bad at delaying releasing, but I was like, I don't remember what I talked about. I had no idea. Hope I didn't make a fool of myself, but, well, congrats. Yeah, appreciate that. they do things a little different. They release little segments, like 10 minute segments every week for a month. So. Okay, you're not done seeing me all over social media. Barbara: I know. I thought about. God, Jesus, there it is again. But I liked it. It was cool. So well done. Elvis: Thank you. We're two weeks away from LMT Lab Day Chicago this weekend Barbara: What's happening this week? Elvis: Well, you know, as of this episode coming out, we're only about two and a half weeks away from the festivities of LMT Lab Day Chicago. Barbara: God, this year's going by fast already. What? Elvis: You know, some. Someone complained that January didn't go fast enough. Barbara: Right? Not me. Elvis: now I know we talk about this a lot, but believe it or not, there's still people that message us on social media asking if we're going toa be at lab day. Barbara: Hey guys, we're go going toa be at lab day. Elvis: Yeah. It's kind of insulting at this point when people ask me. We've been there for the last six years doing this podcast and this year's, you know, not any different. And for the third year, we are happy to once again be with the good people of Ivoclar in their ballroom. That's right across the hall from where you pick up your badge. Barbara: And we are in a sweet spot. Elvis: I haveac car that'us up, so nice. And ivoclar is going all out that weekend to celebrate 20 years of emaxs. Barbara: Wow. Elvis: Doing some amazing things. They have some great people on stage, like Barb. Barbara: Super psyched about the panel. Elvis: Are you? That's so neat. It's such a great, great panel of people. So we're gonna be there Friday afternoon and all day Saturday. Now I know right now you're asking, what about Thursday? What about Friday morning? Barbara: You know it well. Elvis: We're at Calab. That's happening at the Swiss Hotel. The Swiss Hotel. Barbara: I know. That's just such a weird way of saying that. Elvis: It's like Swiss hotel without the H I. Barbara: It's stupid. Elvis: But it's next door. You don't even have to go outside. There's like underground tunnels to get there. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: We're both members of this great organization. As you should be too. And we will also be recording there during their cocktail event on Thursday evening. Barbara: Speaking of Thursday evening, M d starting at 9pm this year again. And you can totally get in without even having to get in like a badge or a ticket. Head over to the 42nd floor of the Swiss Hotel for the Calab after partyty. It's like everybody's invited. Go check it out. A great band, lots of liquor, Danc. Go to calashl lab.org for all the info. See you in a couple weeks, guys. Elvis: Absolutely. What a great party. It was so fun just to sit there and watch everybody make fools of themselves. Okay. Barbara: I was one of them a little bit. Elvis: Not as much as some other people we shall not name. Ryan McEern is second generation lab technician at zubler USA So this week we talked to the technician behind a lot of the products and support that zubler is known for. Ryan McEern is a second generation lab technician. But instead of working in the family lab. His dad actually encouraged Ryan not to get into it, but of course he did. But he took a little unique path. Starting off doing research and development for one of the largest labs in the country. Ryan got to be a part of a team that developed materials, improving workflow, milling, their own milling machines. He was actually even around when they started developing Bruxer. Barbara: Yeah. Really? Can you guess? I think yeah. Elvis: Can you guess what labby worked? Barbara: Yes sir. Elvis: Ryan eventually partnered up with zubler USA as their fourth employee and is now the director of technical support for Ziler's vast catalog. He talks about his journey, some of the cool stuff he are indeed on, and what sets Zubile apart with a highlight of a less than 4 hour centered full arch zirconia process. Barbara: Crazy. Elvis: It's super crazy. So join us as we chat with Ryan McEytern this February. Adite will be showcasing their cutting edge digital dental solutions at Lab Day Chicago There are a lot of vendors to visit, at Lab Day Chicago. And one you don't want to miss is Adite at booth E26. They will be showcasing their exciting new products and cutting edge solutions in digital dentistry. Attendees can explore hands on demonstrations of Biomix stain and glaze techniques, something many guests have mentioned on here before. Along with some of their other innovative technologies, ADITE will also host engaging lectures and Grand Suite 2 that's in the east tower covering topics such as Ezir 3D, Prour digital dentures and their Aite cloud design service. And even before you go, you can stay updated by following aiteort America on all social media platforms. And don't miss this opportunity to see how adite is shaping the future of dental labs. Tell them you heard them on Voices from the Bench and we appreciate your support of the podcast. Ryan McKekeurn from Zubr USA joins Voices from the Bench Adite M. Voices from the Bench the. Barbara: Interview. Elvis: Barb and I are super excited today to finally have someone from Zubr USA on the podcast. We hear a lot about this company. I know a good friend of mine, Blake Barksdale, talks highly of everything that you guys do, but we're going to get on all of that. So welcome to the podcast. Ryan McKekeurn. How are you? Barbara: I'm doing well. Al Listison. Barb. How are you guys today? Barbara: Fantastic. Elvis: Fantastic. We are recording this on the second day of 2025. You are first. Barbara: All right. Elvis: New year. Barbara: Well, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but year W to everybody. Barbara: It feels like my fifth Monday in a row, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm rusty. Elvis: Yes, I've had 14 Sundays and five Mondays and I don't know what day it is. Barbara: Yeah, you got a holiday in the middle of the week and then you start all over on a Thursday and then tomorrow's M Friday. But yeah, that's beside the point. Ryan Zbler is second generation dental technician and worked in several labs Elvis: So Ryan, tell us. I mean obviously, or maybe you did just start into our industry with Zbler, but how did you learn about teeth? How did you get into it? Barbara: well, I'm a second generation dental techniciankay, industry person. My dad has been doing it since the late 60s and is still going. Barbara: Awesome. Elvis: Really good for him. Barbara: It was something that he didn't wish upon my brother or myself. But I started my career in Southern California working for a large lab there in their research and development department. Elvis: Wait a minute, you didn't start at your dad lab? Barbara: Yeah. You didn't hang out there after school and do model work? Barbara: I mean, you know I never really got into the model work. Obviously he'd let me grind on anything I could put my hands on. M But no, I didn't spend a whole lot of time in the lab. I knew what he did. I knew how seriously he took it and he always had a passion for it. So it just kind of happened organically and working like I said in the research and development department for a large lab, I was able to be a fly on the wall for lots of cool stuff and learning about the different materials and processes and basically what makes dental labs tick. So that's really kind of where I got my start. Elvis: So large lab in California m going to take a wild stab. Glidewell. Barbara: Yes. Yes. Barbara: It was on really figure there. Barbara: my actually my dad was a technic. Actually he was running their education department or helping start a higher end crown and bridge department for them. And really I needed some a part time job or something after high school and I just continued on learning more and more about you know, the different, like I said, materials and processes to just see where I fit in, you know. And it just kind of stuck. So I would say that my first five years there was definitely interesting from manufacturing carving waxes in house for Glidewell. My boss at the time worked for large lab or had worked for Bageo and developed all their carving waxes for them. And that was something that Glidewell wanted to bring in house to help cut cost and things like that. So we did a lot of stuff with carving waxes, injectable waxes for different tooth molds and R and D projects. And that grew from two people to 10 people. And got to be a part of a lot of cool projects while I was there. Elvis: I bet, I bet you saw a lot. Let me back up a little bit. So did your dad start at Glidewell back in the 60s or did he have his own lab or. Barbara: no. Elvis: How did he end up there? Barbara: He's a Navy vet and. Elvis: Oh, okay. Barbara: During Vietnam, a lot of people were getting drafted and headed overseas and he wasn't going to wait around to be drafted, so he enlisted in the Navy. And I don't why he chose being a dental technician. I'm not 100% sure. But, that's what he's been doing ever since then. So he's worked at various labs. Elvis: Sure. Barbara: In house stuff for prosthodontists in Southern California. he lectured with gentlemen by the name of Niles Guichet. Dr. Niles. Barbara: yep. Barbara: Who invented the Danar Articulator. Barbara: Wow. Elvis: What? Barbara: That's great. You know, he was, surrounded himself with a lot of old timers and really brilliant people and technicians and was just kind of always, you know, kept that standard. And then he ended up at Clydwell, working in a crown and bridge department for them. Then took over like part of their education department, teaching people, you know, how to carve a tooth, you know, how to wax up a framework. Elvis: Mean when they brought in all 5,000 of those employees, they had to go through your dad first. Barbara: Yep. Barbara: So. But it's been really good to him and in turn has been really good, really good for me. Why didn't your father want you and your brother to go into the business Barbara: So I got to ask the question. Why didn't he want you and your brother to go into the business? Because of the stress and the long hours and the crazy doctors? Barbara: Yeah. yeah, pretty much. To put it in a nutshell, yes. You know, parents always want their, their children to do better than they did in their life, so. And I think that that was really important to him. But, I think in hindsight he sees what I've been able to do, in my 24 year career, and how I've taken a passion for it both on the lab side and, and from the technical support and sales side and stuff. With zubler. Elvis: Yeah. Is your brother in the industry? Barbara: no, he was, he got out though. Elvis: Yeah. Barbara: He actually worked, he did HR at Glidewell, actually. Elvis: Oh, wow. Barbara: For quite a few years. and now he's into a corporate insurance or something like that. Elvis: So boring. Barbara: Yeah. Yeah. At one point there was four family members all working at the same laboratory Y and. Barbara: Ah, sounds like My family. Elvis: Yeah, yeah, we hear a lot of that with Glidewell. They like to hire family and friends of employees and. Barbara: Mm Elvis: I mean it's just, it just works for him. Barbara: It's a good company. It's a big company. It's changed a lot since, you know, the, over the years. But I think everything that Mr. Glidewell has done and you know, all the people he's put in their, in their positions have done a great job. It's admirable, for sure. Barbara: Yeah, you're never going to hear anything negative about that, man. I swear all the props if you. Elvis: Talk to the right people. Did you get to work on early monolithic zirconia Anywho, so what year did you start at Glidewell? This is before Bruxer, probably. Barbara: Oh yeah, yeah, this was. I started there in 2001. Elvis: Okay, so you're an R and D. Did you get to work on early monolithic zirconia? Barbara: I did. Elvis: that's awesome. Barbara: So, tell us about that. You got to reach out. Barbara: Ah, a lot of them behind the scenes stuff on how the zirconia blanks were manufactured, which obviously was very fascinating. Different methods of manufacturing them. Yeah, yeah. You know, Mr. Glidewell always had this, vision that you could take a material and make a good monolithic crown and not have to teach somebody to layer porcelain. You can get something that would be acceptable for day to day use. So, you know, obviously I don't know what the end goal was, but if, if you look at it from, I guess a business owner's point of view, your talent, I guess you could say in your laboratory wouldn't have to be a full blown CDT to, you know, wax a crown and then press it or mill it out of a monolithic material and to get a result that really at the end of the day maybe just needs some glaze or a polish and that can be shipped out. So I saw quite a few different projects while I was there, but everything was along that same, the same line. Whether it was a, a pressable solution or a machine solution. It was always had that, that monolithic kind of goal in mind. Elvis: It seems to me that R and D and I could be wrong, but it sounds like you just get to play all day. Is that true? I mean, really just get to test. Barbara: Things and I think, I think so. I mean, I think that there's been a few, I've, you know, cast a few insects in my day and you know, tried to press stuff and things like that. But yeah, I mean there's a certain amount of, you know, you got to think outside the box, right? So how wild can your imagination get? Barbara: So when you're doing something like the Bruxer material and you're centering it for all those hours, do you go back and forth on like the whole time and the rate of climb and how long in the oven, like how long does it take to actually get that right? Barbara: So fortunately for me, I'm not the guy that had to make that decision. they hired material manufacturing engineers and that were really experts in their field. And specifically with zirconia, they knew that they had to at least put, put out something that can be tested. And then really it, it, it didn't take much for it to be like, okay, let's, let's raise this 10 degrees and see if we get a little bit more translucencies or anything like that. But the materials are constantly evolving. So you know, the mix and match of. I remember the wool ceram days, you know, where it's just alumina, you know. And there was limitations with that and how it had to be handled. And I think Zirconia really had a lot more freedom than some of those other manufacturing, processes. Barbara: I would agree. Elvis: So Zirconia was easier than some of the previous. Is that you'stronger? Barbara: Yeah, stronger. Elvis: I know that I thought it was. Barbara: Complicated as far as manufacturing goes. Yes. You know, really. But we did go through a lot of testing on do you mill a straight green state? like a true green state zirconia. Something that is not pre centered or bisque baked as most technicallyeah. Right. So where do we gain our time? We're either going to have to machine this very slowly because the material is so fragile, or maybe we lengthen the manufacturing process time of a disc and then, and introduce that pre entering step which then gives it the strength during machining, that you need and maybe even some green state work, stuff like that. So reduce your internal remakes. You know, a lot of, a lot of how I think products are developed these days, especially zirconia and ceramics and stuff like that. It's definitely about around ease of use and not making it so technique sensitive that nobody could do it. Elvis: No, you need to push out as many, as many as we can. I mean that's the Zirconia way, isn't it? I mean, how many can we get out by the end of the day? I mean, I was in an office the other day that had Glidewell's new mill. Really were it Mills s finish Zirconia. Barbara: Oh, you're kidding me. Pre. Elvis: Centered. Barbara: Centered. Elvis: Yeah, centered. Every block came with its own burr. Barbara: Oh, I bet. I bet that's hell on burs. Elvis: Yeah, the guy likes it. Barbara: So I was like, I actually think that they started the development of that machine when I was kind of on my way outah that they were looking at Chairside Solutions, way back then. That was 2011, so. Barbara: So you said you were on your way out. So where did you transition to after that? Barbara: So my career at Glidewell was basically just the R and D stuff the first few years and doing some testing. And then they got their first 3D printers and 3 shaped scanner. And I really took, a liking to that or an interest. So I kind of shifted from what I was doing to more of a like internal product development and testing to get something ready to then bring it to the production floor. So that ranged from scanning and designing cases to seeing them milled centered. And then once that production stuff got handed off to the floor, it was on to the next task, which then became Glidewell. Manufactured their own mills. So I was operating these giant CNC machines to make milling machines. Elvis: So you made milling machines? Barbara: Yeah, I was just go going toa say that's crazy. Elvis: Why? Barbara: Yeah, they had a whole team of engineers that, developed a machine and got all the components together and they bought industrial milling machines to make all the components themselves. Elvis: So basically they bought big milling machines to make smaller Miller machines. Barbara: Absolutely. Elvis: That's crazy. Wow. Why did they just go buy some Rollands or whatever popular back in theh? Barbara: they had ro. They had Rollands and different types of hobby mills and things like that. Why they wanted to make their own, I'm not sure, to be honest with you. Barbara: I think he pretty much made his own everything when I was. Elvis: Because he could, to be honest. Barbara: But I never heard they had somebody making their own mills That'that's pretty huge. Elvis: So you ran that making their mills? Barbara: I didn't run it. I was, I was, I was part of the team, that they hired true machinist, industrial machinists and mechanical engineers and software engineers to develop all that stuff. There needed to be some buffer between the production floor and the engineering team I was just kind of one of the cogs in the wheel of getting stuff done. Elvis: But you sound like you were the dental cog in the wheel though. Barbara: Yeah, I mean, there's definitely needed to be some sort of buffer between the production floor and the engineering team and to be able to kind of bridge that gap. yeah, it's very difficult to teach an engineer to be a dental technician and it's very difficult for a dental technician to be taught or trained to be an engineer, you know. Elvis: Yeah, br which is why we need the burr so small. This is why. Barbara: Exactly. Barbara: So you were the person that merged that information between the two teams? Barbara: I was one of the people that did. yeah. I mean, at that point that department really started to grow and there was different people handling different projects. So I was part of a team that streamlined, you know, the machining of the zirconia crown. What issues did the production team have overnight that the engineering team could address the following day and really, like I said, streamline the process as far as, how deep of a cut do you take in zirconia or how long will this burr last? I want more detail. What needs to be done for that? So kind of being the liaison between the two in some sort of fashion. Elvis: That's crazy cool though. I had no idea that they put so much effort into just getting some mills. Barbara: Yeah. Barbara: Oh, they, they, they, they put a ton of work into it. A ton of work. Barbara: So what part did you like best? Barbara: There was a point while I was there, probably I don't know my third or fourth year where, I don't know if you guys recall, but there's the big beryllium scare y precious metals and a lot of companies just ditched alloys with beryllium in it. And we needed to find out who had the metal that matched. The porcelain was being used on a day to day basis up on the production floor. And they bought a piece of equipment to test the coefficient of thermal expansion between two materials. So you could put a sample of metal on one side of this machine and put a ceramic sample on the other. And basically you would heat those up and see where those, the CTE curve, matched the best. Barbara: That sounds m. Fascinating as hell. Barbara: It was really neat. It was, it was a lot of fun. It was something I had never thought I would, you know, do. It really helped us narrow down the massive amount of alloy, options that were on the market down to, you know, one or two. So what would happen if your cete does not match the, you know, the other material? They will expand and contract it at different rates. Barbara: Right. Barbara: So if we heat up a PFM crown in a ceramic oven and those CTE numbers are not within that certain range, your porcelain can. Barbara: And so you would just do that over and over and over and over and over again until the porcelain didn't crack and then you knew you had a match. Barbara: Well, I mean, you could easily Determine what the CTE of the porcelain was. So it was just finding an alloy that worked the best. Sorow if we had say a sample of six alloys and we narrow it down to three, then we could give it to the production floor and say, okay, you guys run this for a week or two and let us know, you know, if you have any failures or any issues like that. Barbara: That's awesomeuse. Barbara: I meanth every tooth or framework is different. Right. So doing a small little cylinder, a sample cylinder, wouldn't, wouldn't be really fully putting it through its paces. On paper it should work, but it's always different story when you get it onto the production floor. Right. So sure. Elvis: Get down to those margins. Barbara: Yeah, it always sounds good on paper. And then you get to reality and you're like, damn, this doesn't work at all. Elvis: What was that metal scare? I'm not familiar with it. Barbara: The beryllium is has been proven to potentially cause cancer especially. Elvis: Was it in a lot of alloys? Barbara: It was in a lot of non precious alloys, so. And then the industry kind of switched to more chrome cobalt. Beryllium was much easier. The alloyways that contained the beryllium were typically much easier to work with than your higher nickel content alloys like a chrome cobalt. Barbara: I remember, I remember that because when the chrome cobalt got introduced, it was a dirtier alloy. Would you agree? Barbara: Yes. Barbara: And darker. And when you would like degas them, it was like super black and dark and it just was just a shit alloy. Sorry, you can beat me up. Barbara: No. Yeah. People hated it after you degassed it. If you touched it with your finger or something like that and then you think it's clean and you go to opaque it. There's a good possibility there's already some contamination between the alloy and the opaque which then could produce a failure. in the long run. Barbara: Yeah. Trying to control that oxide, that black that came out of it. I remember that was when they introduced the slurry and you would slurry it and then you'd have to sandblast the black off of it and just redo it. God, I remember that real well. Wow. That's crazy. It worked, but it was, it was kind of a nightmare to use Y. Elvis: It probably helped push the all zirconia market a little bit. Barbara: Yeah, I'm sure I'll after that. Ye. You went to Glidewell to manage their CAD cam department Elvis: And then you mentioned nickel, but nobody wants nickel anymore. Barbara: Correct. Elvis: Yeah. Everyone's like, is it nickel free? I get to ask that question all the time. Where'd you go from there? From Glidewell. Barbara: I went to another commercial lab out there and manage their CAD cam department. Elvis: Oh, you got. Barbara: We're a dental technician. Damn it. Barbara: Yeah. Barbara: Aw. Barbara: Yeah. So I managed their CAD cam department on, the day to day stuff over, you know, a lot of zirconia milling, a lot of printing. We had three shifts. Elvis: Oh, wow. Barbara: We had a day shift, an evening shift and then an overnight shift that handled all the printing. They wouldint print anywhere from 90 to 130, 140 units a night of frameworks that would then be ready for their waxing department to evaluate and then cast the following day. Elvis: Wow. Barbara: We were doing the same thingame. That's crazy. Barbara: Yeah. On envision Tech. Elvis: Really? Barbara: So was that good or bad? Was that more in managing people or more in managing the process? Barbara: Yeah. The printing or just that. How that work? Barbara: Yeah, experience. The whole experience going from what you were doing and then into dealing with people as well as processes. Barbara: It was a really good experience for me personally. That was really my. My probably first time managing people, which is always, you know, you've got 10 people. It's 10 different personalities. Elvis: Sure. Yeah. Barbara: And stuff like that. So learning how to dance around that and then dealing with doctors on the phone on a day to day basis was something new to me. That just comes over time. Talking to. Talking to people on the phone and building a rapport with them I think is the most important part. So. But no, it was a really, really good experience for me. I decided I was only there for about two and a half years and I got an opportunity to work for zubler USA I took an interview at. It was lab day west or the D. O.A.C. cAD CAM meeting that they would have every year out there in Southern California. Elvis: You got a job interview at a dental convention. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: Interesting. Barbara: Sat down with Mr. Zbler himself. Elvis: Really? Barbara: I didn't know there was a Mr. zubler on. Barbara: Ye there is. Barbara: That's a family company. Barbara: They named him after him. Barbara: Yep. He started it a long time ago. Barbara: That's great. Elvis: Do you know when it got started? Elvis: If you don't, that's. Barbara: I do not. Off the top of my head, I want to say probably early 70s. He started that himself. M. I know that. Was it not in the usa no, that was started in Germany. Elvis: Oh, this is making more sense now. Barbara: Yeah, yeah, it was started in Germany. And he. Mr. zubler is just a very unique person. A brilliant mind, I think. Misunderstood by many. he's got definitely a heart of gold under a tough exterior. but he. I think the first products were suction units and central suction. Elvis: What a way to get into the field. Yeah. 1978. Wow. You got to sit down with the man in the myth himself Barbara: So you got to sit down with the man in the myth himself. Were you nervous? Barbara: Honestly? I had seen him around Glidewell one or two times talking about pressing materials and things like that. I never sat down and really didn't have a clue kind of who he was. Right. Except for that he owned a company called zubler. I really wasn't nervous. You know, they were looking for somebody very specific because he had just purchased part of a company that. That made dental milling machines. Barbara: Ding, ding, ding. Barbara: Yep. A good friend of mine, who a lot of people know, Jean Sheea. Elvis: Ah. Barbara: Kind of connected us. And he said, you know, I had helped him plenty of times with cases and things like that. And so I sat down with him and we ch. Chatted for probably 30 minutes. Then he said, okay, good. All right. In January you'll come to Germany for two weeks and then you'll come back out and work the IDS for another two weeks in February or March. And the rest was kind of history. I did all the milling support for zubler on their first mills from the west coast and then tried to, you know, sell other equipment on the west coast while I was out there. Barbara: Wow. Barbara: Was. It was good. zubler USA was just starting in Germany in 2012 Elvis: So at this point, was zubler USA a thing or was it just zubler. Barbara: Germany at that point? zubler USA was just starting. That was started by Brian Parker. Barbara: Who's the CEO of zubler USA and Kurt zubler. Barbara: So what year are we talking, like 2012? 10? Barbara: Yeah, 2012. Barbara: Good guess, Barbara. Wow. Elvis: Barbara for the win. Steve Zeker is in charge of installing all of our centralized suction systems So what were you like, employee number two? Three. I mean, how big was the company when you on the USA side? Barbara: Well, at that point I was employee number four. Wow. there was Brian Parker, obviously. There was s another gentleman who a lot of people know. Steve Zeker, if you've ever called the office people know who Steve is. Barbara: Steve does all of our handpiece repairs, suction repairs, oven repairs. Elvis: And he has time to answer the phone? Barbara: No. Barbara: Well, we don't have that many repairs, so. Elvis: Good one. Barbara: So. And Steve is in charge of installing all of our centralized suction systems. Elvis: Oh, like the whole lab suction systems. Barbara: The whole lab. Elvis: People still do that? Barbara: Oh, yeahh. Elvis: Yeah. The first lab I was at, we had one that probably dated since the early 80s. I thing was loud. Barbara: Oh yeah. Elvis: It Just stopped working eventually. Barbara: Well, I can tell you the first suction system that was sold by Brian Parker was sold, I believe in 1994. Barbara: Wow. Elvis: 94. Wow. Barbara: They were way ahead of their time. Barbara: It is still operational and has not had one minute of downtime. Elvis: What? Barbara: They don't make them like that anymore, let me tell you. That's pretty impressive. Barbara: That's the. Yeah, that's the first central suction system. Elvis: Wow. Barbara: You know what? I think we have a zubler suction system here. Elvis: Central or do you guys have individual bel. Barbara: Oh, it's central. It's huge. Elvis: Oh, there you go. Barbara: It's like this big giant piece of equipment that sits outside the laboratory. I think that's freickaking Zobler. I will check them. Barbara: It very well could be, I'm pretty sure. Barbara: And I'll tell you what, it's a workhorse. I don't think it's ever. I'm go going to knock on wood. I don't think we've ever had any issues with it. That's pretty awesome. Wow. Barbara: Yeah, they're very low maintenance. It's replace a filter every one or two years and clean the bucket out depending on how much it's used. And they just run. So. And that goes for a lot of the products that that Zubl USA sells from centering ovens, ceramic ovens. They're just bulletproof. Elvis: So. The mills were made by a company called Dental Concept Systems Okay, so your employee number four, you're brough in and you're working mostly with their mills. Barbara: Yeah. So at that point I was the CADC cam support o for the company. Elvis: Did they sell software too? Barbara: We sold Exocad at that point. Yeah. Yeah, Yep. We sold Exocad and Metit scanners. Elvis: Oh, so you did all of that? Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: That's a lot. What were the mills? Are they Zubr mills? Barbara: Were the mills were made by a company called Dental Concept Systems. Elvis: Okay. Barbara: They're now owned by Breedent Corporation. Elvis: Oh, Breedn, sure, I know that company. Yeah. Barbara: Ah, yeah. Dental Concept Systems was started back in I think somewhere around 2011, 2012. And that's when Kurt Zebler got involved with them. Barbara: And of course they wanted to bring, you know, sell them the US as well. And I want to say that we sold probably 10 or 15 of them. They were definitely in my opinion, on the higher end as far as price goes. so I don't think that it was just like the perfect match for North America and a, very expensive. Barbara: And us being cheaper. Barbara: Yeah. Went well. When you can get a Roland. For you know, a half of the cost. Barbara: Yeah. Barbara: So we wanted. Elvis: Was great but cheap. Barbara: Right, right, right. Economical. Elvis: Yeah, economical. Sor. Barbara: That's fine. Elvis: Yeah. Barbara: So you were doing all of. Barbara: Yeah. So they're great machines but these machines did all materials. So trying to get that mentality of hey, let's have you know, a purpose built machine for say just dry materials and you don't need all these other bells and whistles that would help bring cost but down. But but yeah, some of those machines are still. Most of those machines are still in operation today. Elvis: You don't sell them anymore. Barbara: We will sell one if somebody comes and says hey, I want to buy this specific machine. But no, we'we've had to, you know, we want to be competitive in the milling CAD cam market as well. So we've gone through a couple different distributors. Elvis: Hm. Barbara: And we believe we've landed on a good manufacturer currently. which is called Readon. Elvis: Readon. Barbara: They're out of Turkey. Elvis: Really? Barbara: What do they do? Barbara: They're a milling machine manufacturer out of Turkey. Barbara: Wow. Barbara: Out of Turkey. Yeah. Turkey. in the early days of in, in house milling and stuff like that. Turkey. There was a few companies out of Turkey that had great reputations for making machines. Barbara: Yeah. Not surprised actually. Barbara: And so we had dabbled in some of the Asian mills which some have, have served us really, really well. Barbara: Most of them actually have served us well. There's, there's just always that initial, what do you want to call it, kind of a shake out to see how things, you know, will pan out as far as support goes. Elvis: O 100%. Barbara: Yah. Barbara: Yeah. Barbara: For the most part we've been happy with every machine that we've sold and continue to service them to this day. Even if we don't sell those machines anymore. That's one thing that we will, will not do is you know, say oops, sorry, we don't support that machine anymore. Barbara: Yeah. Which I love that customer service aspect of it. You have to, I mean or you want, you know, the longevity of the machine and the longevity of the company and the two to go together. Barbara: I totally agree. I couldn't confidently ask somebody to buy something that, you know, we wouldn't be selling any year. And Brian Parker has that same attitude and so did Kurt zubler, when he was more involved with Zbler Germany. You know, they want products that are gonna last a long time. There are other equipment manufacturers out there that kind of make a change every say four to five years. And when you Call them for a part, they'll tell you sorry's not available. Just give us, you know, five do to $7,000 for our newest version. Is the ZR UM family still involved? You kind of. Kurt zubler never had children Barbara: Is the ZR family still involved? You kind of. Barbara: Kurt zubler never had children and he is still, he's definitely still with us. Not so heavily involved in zubler in Germany anymore. He did sell his company to a very small, I guess you could say family owned private equity company in Germany and basically made no changes to the company. All the staff is still there that people that've worked for him 30, 40 years are still there, still involved and are helping drive the company's future with the assistance of this parent company now. So it will always be zubler. Zbler is s a wonderful brand. So that's never going to change. Barbara: That's pretty wonderful. I love that. Barbara: But yeah, as far as day to day stuff, I don't believe he's involved anymore. Elvis: Ah yeah. Something I hear a lot about and maybe it's just because I talked to Blake so much. But the ovens, he tends to love your ovens. I personally don't know what makes an oven lovable, but how do your oven stand out above the others? Barbara: I think anything will become lovable if it gets rid of a headache. Right. Let's start with say our ceramic furnace. it's called the Varo 230ZR It is different than other ovens in a couple fashions. It does have a larger firing chamber which actually produces much more even heating of your part. Back in the day a ceramus would say, you know, they would maybe put their work to one side of the fire. Barbara: Oh God, that's hilarious. That's true though because there was like a hot spot. Barbara: ``Ot exact. Exactly. Elvis: Barbara do you have a hot spot in your oven? Barbara: Barb I am. Ah, a hotspot Elvis. Barbara: So zubler, when I was, when I first went out there, when I got, when I hired on with them, you know, I got to kind of learn how they came up what makes their ovens different than, than others. Elvis: Sure. Barbara: And they had a ceramic oven with different chambers. They had a couple different ceramic ovens with different chamber sizes and would have thermocouples going through measuring all the different points on the heating tray and, and if it wasn't a perfectly homogeneous heat across the complete platform, then you know, more work had to be done. So zubler developed the, it was the V200 at first. it's now the V230 and we even have one called the ZR version which is really probably one of our top selling products. the ZR has a software upgrade that will allow you to control your heating and cooling so that it's 100% linear. Elvis: What does that mean? Barbara: Yeah, when an oven heats up, it's going to say heat at 30 degrees a minute. Y When it cools and you program a cooling heat rate, the oven will guarantee to cool at 30 degrees a minute. Very important for large o. Yeah. Zirconia substructures or any, any large structures with a ceramic on it to make sure that you're not going to potentiallyure have a fracture of something. Barbara: Wow. Barbara: If you take, if you compare that with something, I don't really want to name the name, but we'll just, we'll call it a clamshell style oven. When that door opens, the first thing that's cooling is whatever's closest to the front of the oven and it's going to be hotter in the back. So our oven just like others, has a lift, so it goes up and down and that's actually much easier to have a predictable outcome and heating and cooling. So. And that software function is called TTC mode on the oven time and temperature controlled cooling. Elvis: So it still cools by opening, but it's just more controlled. Barbara: Interesting. Yes, but it will actually. So the oven can actually will start coming down and if it feels that it's cooling too fast, the door will go back up. Barbara: So there's a sensor. Barbara: Yeah, it will dance kind of up and down to make sure that it's not heat, it's not cooling too fast. Elvis: That makes a lot of sense. Barbara: We have solved a lot of people's arch fracturing issues just by putting that oven in place. Barbara: Is that why it's ZR for zirconia, is it? Barbara: Well, yeah, the zr, it has that software upgrade that has that TTC function. But now, you know, you know, six, seven years ago you could buy just the regular V200 and then potentially get the ZR function on it now just because the days of Zirconia or upon us and have been upon us, we just only sell the V230 with the ZR. So. And the difference between the V200 and V230 is the user interface and some software functions. So still the same oven, just a little bit of a facelift. Barbara: I gotta check that out. I've had the same oven and it stresses me out because one of these days on a Knock on wood again. It's gonna go. And I'm really, really want something that I can, you know, tell what's happening and, you know, come cool and heat rate and all the things that you're talking about. Sounds pretty awesome. Barbara: It's really been a bulletproof product. Barbara says she still uses her old Jellnko Elvis oven Elvis: How old is your oven, Barb? Barbara: Oh, it's a Jellnko Elvis. Elvis: Oh, Jesus. Barbara: No, I'm not kidding you. Every single day I'm thinking this sucker is gonna go. But I'm just so, so comfortable with it. And I don't know of any, you know, I need to look at other ovens. And when I say that, I mean it. Elvis: That company didn't exist when I started it all. Barbara: Thank you. Thank you very much. Barbara: You can slap me next to you see me. but my dad had a Jenko flagship and it actually had a little window. Barbara: Oh yeah. Barbara: You could see into the firing chamber. Yep. Barbara: That's awesome. He probably still has it too, and it probably still works. He just won't tell you. Barbara: it definitely still worked last time, I saw it. But I think he finally. Barbara: He had to final put it to bed. Barbara: He finally had to put it to rest. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: Can't believe you're still using that, Barb. I'm surprised your lab lets you still use it. Barbara: I know, it's what I'm saying and I really mean it. I need to look for a new oven, so I'm kind of FAS think it's to genuinely. Barbara: It will definitely be the last, o and you ever purchased bar. Barbara: Yeah. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: If you made that one last that long. Barbara: I take care of my stuff. Elvis: There you go. That's something to be said. Barbara: That's great. I'm director of technical support and installations and trainings for zubler So anyhow, on to. So what's the company like? What is your role now and how has it changed? Like, are you still doing the same thing in a similar position or have you taken over yet? Barbara: So I'm director of technical support and installations and trainings for zubler usa. My role has changed a little bit, over the last, say eight, nine months. and as we're building a sales team that will allow me to focus more of the information and training and, you know, working together with the sales team, to answer any questions to make sure that when a repair comes in, it gets handled in a timely fashion. When somebody has a question programming an oven or something like that that we take care of that. that does include all of our CAD CAM support. We've got close to 200 machines out on the market that are all Powered by hyperdent. So we're doing hyperent technical support training on a daily basis. We also do mill in house on a daily basis. A m lot of zirconia. We have our zirconia that's called zubler345. And getting it, we really want it to be kind of a household name for especially when it comes to full arch. And we believe that we can get it there. So instead of taking the approach of other companies where they'll give you free discks and stuff like that, from a sales perspective, we could hand out a disc to you Elvis, and say, okay, just let us know what you think whenever you get time. And you know what it's like in a laboratory. Elvis: Got a drawer for all of those. Barbara: Exactly. Barbara: So true. Barbara: So we had the idea that we would just mill the case for the customer and let the case can still proceed through the lab. And being that we can center this zirconia in four hours, we could mill it on a read on milling machine and say an hour and a half to two and a half hours, throw it in a centering furnace and still get it out the same day. Elvis: How long does it usually take to do a full arch centering? Barbara: 4 hours. Barbara: Centering. Elvis: Is that like 12? Barbara: It depends. It depends on the material. We've been working with a company that has manufactured a zirconia that you can center. Really the full time is about 4 hours and 15 minutes. Barbara: But the time it goes, that's pretty crazy. Barbara: The time that it goes into the oven to where you take it, to where it drops out is 3 hours and 45 minutes. Elvis: But what's the usual time? Barbara: Like 12? Elvis: Is it? I mean, I don't know. Barbara: I'm not Elvis. It can really range. It can go from six hours to 12 to 18. I remember when I milled my first full art zirconia, in a laboratory. It was like a 22 hour cycle. Elvis: 22. Barbara: Geez. Because we were just so the amount of mill time and green state finishing and all of that to then have it fail coming out of the cent. Barbara: That's such a heartbreer. Barbara: Yeah, it's just a kick in the gut. So is this 3 hours and 45 minutes this the fastest in the industry Elvis: So is this 3 hours and 45 minutes this the fastest in the industry? Barbara: I would say yes, currently for full art zirconia. Elvis: Why? I mean, what's different about it? How does it work? Without giving away your patent secret or whatever? What makes it. Barbara: It's 100% how the zirconia is manufactured. Elvis: Interesting. Barbara: That's about all I can say. Yeah, but it. The material has really done well for full arch in the last two and a half, three years. Our estimate is that we supplied 22% of the U.S. market in 2024 for full AR cases. Barbara: W. So really, is most of it labs designing their own and sending it to you guys to mill and center, or is it a combination of product that the labs are doing on their own? Barbara: Well, so the only thing that we mill and center here is going to be a sample for a customer to evaluate the aesthetics of the material. We definitely don't want to be a milling center. Elvis: Don't get into that. Barbara: We did have a small milling center probably three or four years ago, and, it was just more of a distraction than anything. So, I mean, that was really geared towards local labs that needed, you know, a hand with a case or something like that. But it's the full circle of products. Right. So we have our milling strategies and hypernent software that we've worked on very closely with. Follow me, North America. The guy, Jordan Greenberg and his team. Yeah, are great guys. And you, get a milling machine that can mill at a certain speed, the spindle is a certain size, so that you're not wasting time doing a tool change or something like that. Using designing tools to do more work at one time than maybe what other people do. Just trying to take a different approach to make it as efficient as possible. And then it goes from the milling machine to the MEMFOT or zubler centering furnaces that we sell that have the ability to heat heat up at a fast rate and specialized cooling cycles to get. To get it in and out of the oven as quickly but as safely as possible. I know that. That's one. I know Blake has a couple of those centering ovens, and has been very happy with them. So. And then, then you get it out of the centering furnace and you can confidently put it in a ceramic oven that is not going to fracture a case. And then there's more things coming to just add to this. This full circle of full arch workflow. That's definitely been something that we've been heavily focused on in the last last three, four years. Barbara: Sounds like it's going very well for your company. Barbara: It is. It is. Barbara: And Elvis didn't know about it. Elvis: I didn't. Barbara: I heard your dog bark and then I heard. Elvis: Yeah, I had to mute myself. Barbara: I just heard that. Barbara: Okay, that's. All right. Do you sell direct or are you through distributors? We sell direct Barbara: So you guys. Oh, go ahead. Elvis: No, I was gonna ask About Chicago, too. Barbara: Oh, my God. Elvis: I imagine you have a presence in lab Day Chicago. Barbara: Oh, yeah. Barbara: Yes. Yes, we will. Yeah. We, are actually graduating to a bigger booth this year. Barbara: Good for you guys. Barbara: you know what it's like in that showroom in Chicago. It's, chaotic. Elvis: Crazy. Barbara: Y. I love it. So we definitely needed some more real estate to invite people into the booth and have conversations, because it's not just mills and ovens and zirconia. You know, there's hand pieces, there's centralized suction, there's suction solutions for benches, suction hoods and things like that. Different cements we have for bonding tie bases into zirconia and all sorts of different little products. Elvis: mean, you all really have everything, don't you? Barbara: That's one thing about our CEO, Brian Parker. Since he's been in this industry for 40 years, he definitely has a niche for finding unique products to make a, lab technician's life easier and make the lab more profitable. So. And one person, doesn't matter who it is, how large or small, the customer that says, hey, I need a solution for this Y. And it could take months before we find something that is exactly what that customer needs. But we find a way to find those products and then continue to support them. Elvis: Yeah, that's the important part. The customer service is where it's at. Barbara: It, 100% is, Ellis. Yeah, it really is. Elvis: And do you sell direct or is it through distributors? Barbara: We sell direct. Elvis: Okay. Barbara: We have worked with some other companies previously, but what ends up happening, Elvis, is that we still end up supporting those products at the end of the day. Elvis: Sure. Barbara: Yeah. Barbara: So you can take the Sana Centering ovens. They're made by the same manufacturer, which is a company in Germany called Memfote. Those customers suffered because they didn't really have people that knew how to fix a problem or maybe even program the oven, and so they end up calling us. So, honestly, for us, it's in our best interest to just sell direct. Barbara: Yeah. Yeah, Agree. Elvis: You're not helping other people with other ovens, are you? You don't want to put that out in the world, Art. Barbara: Well, I mean, listen, it's. At the end of the day, we like to be a resource for people. So if we call and don't have an answer, we most likely know somebody who will. Elvis: Yah. Barbara: And I'll happily tell somebody, hey, we don't have a solution for you. But, this company does. Elvis: Cool. Barbara: And at the end of the day, the Customer will come back and say I remember that you. This guy always has an answer or can get me an answer or at least bounce a question off of him and they can point us in the right direction. So that's a huge thing and it's very important in the culture of zour for sure. Barbara: And that comes through from your message is that you guys, you know, the way your customer service is creates loyalty from both ends, which is great. Barbara: It is. We have to be. We have to be an extension of our customer. Whether you like it or not, it's important. I think that's keeping integrity in that regard is critical. Nothing's ever perfect. Right. But it's. Look, are you at the end of the day, are you. You ready to get in the trenches next to your customer when they really need you? Elvis: Yeah. Barbara: Y. Barbara: You know, and that's a must. And it sounds like you guys are doing that at Zbler and I love it. Barbara: We're trying our best. Elvis: Yeah. Barbara: That's for sure. Barbara: Come across for sure. Elvis: Yeah. And I think you might have sold an oven replace Barbbs 45 year old oven. Barbara: Yes. Not 45. Not that. Elvis: Look for a date on that thing Bar we got gott find out a picture of it. Barbara: Yell and you can put it on this. Barbara: What color is it? Is it light blue or is it that. It's that God. Or is it the God awful orange? Barbara: It's blue. At least it's blue. Barbara: It's blue. Elvis: Is that why you got it because it's blue? Barbara: No've hadd my whole career so I guess I don't knowah. Ryan, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming on to talk about Zubr Elvis: Ryan, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming on telling us all about Zubr. Sounds like they hired the right person for the right role. Man, he sounds like you've learned a lot. Barbara: Thank you. I'm honored BRN asked me to fill in for him because he couldn't be here. And I've listened to many of your guys podcasts. I love what you guys are doing for the industry and sharing knowledge and you know, getting different perspectives is always a refreshing opinion. Elvis: So thanks so much man and make sure you come find us at lab day. Barbara: Yeah, let love meet you. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: Awesome. Barbara: Definitely. Elvis: Thanks Ryan. We appreciate it. Barbara: All right guys, we'll talk to you soon. Elvis: Have a good one. Zoo is using cutting-edge technology to help technicians do laser projects faster Barbara: A huge thanks to Ryan for coming on our podcast, sharing your story about all of the amazing things that zubler is doing to help us technicians. Yes, I know I have a very old oven, but it still works. Barely want to say I need to knock on some wood. It's nice to know when the time comes, though, that there's been significant advances in technology and Zoo is leading the way. Everybody, we encourage you to check out their 3:45 3 hours and 45 minute zirconia. If you don't believe it, send them a file and see for yourself. With the ability to shave off centering time and get them done faster, could be the difference between doing a few a day to doing a whole heck of a lot of day. So thank you, Ryan and Zubiler. Elvis: All right, everybody, that's all we got for you and we we'll talk to you. Barbara: Have a great week. Elvis: Bye. Barbara: I'm ready. Got my coffee in me. Let's do it. Elvis: Oh, good. I'm about eight cups in, so we should be al the views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast, are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench llc.