Voices from the Bench invites you to follow us on Instagram Hi, Voices of the Bench community. I'm, Laura Prosser, the digital Russell Crockettet manager here for iacclar North America. And I would like to invite you to start following us on Instagram. It's your chance to obtain exclusive updates on product announcements, industry news, upcoming educational events, and heartwarming stories about our local team and industry professionals. So let's get social together. Barbara: Simply start following us, on Instagram. Iaclar na. Danny Yao: That's Instagram Iaclar na. We'see you there. Elvis: Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email@info voicesfrohebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Voices from the Bench podcast coming from Cologne, Germany for IDS Greetings and welcome to Voices from the Bench, episode 366. My name is Elvis. Barbara: My name is Barbara. And Double sixes. Elvis: Double Sixes. And we're coming to you from Cologne, Germany at the IDS show. Barbara: That is the craziest thing and the biggest dream that we've ever had. Elvis: It's so crazy. So, Barbara, I. We don't usually get to do these. Barbara: We don't ever face face to face. It's kind of weird's a moment there. I'm like, this is weird. Elvis: I don't know. See, I'm off. it's a different time zone. Barbara: Oh, yeah. Ye. Elvis: We don't even know what day it is. Barbara: Nope. Elvis: We can barely see daylight. Barbara: We've been working hard though, guys. We've got like at least 20. Elvis: We've talking way more than that. Barbara: We haven't gotten up at all. Elvis: And for those that have never been to ids, it is huge. It is unbelievably the biggest place I've ever been. Barbara: It's 20 times bigger than I thought it was going toa be Y. It's literally miles and miles. And that's no joke. So, yeah, it's. Elvis: I mean, just a quick story. I tried to leave yesterday and I got lost and it took me almost an hour just to get out of this facility. Barbara: Yes. Elvis: Just to find Uber or a taxi. Barbara: I mean, visualize that. That's literally a true story. We both got lost. Elvis: It's crazy. Barbara: It took an hour to find the front. It's just. Elvis: Yeah, but we're excited and I'll say a, huge thanks to Xocad. Barbara: yes. Thank you, Xoc. Elvis: Oh, that clappings for us. Kidding. They've put on a great, great booth. It's. I don't even want to call it a booth. It's so. Barbara: It's like a big, giant mansion. Elvis: It's a, Mini city. Yeah, because there's, rooms over there, there's coffee over there, there's private rooms behind us, there's a locker room. Barbara: It's just there's computers everywhere. Danny Yao: Everywhere. Elvis: There design technicians stat a main stage. Barbara: They have people bringing us coffee in a very nice way constantly. Elvis: I'we do for you. Barbara: Yeah, we're super specialized. Danny Yao: Amazing. Elvis: But we're not goingna stop releasing content and bringing you an episode just because Barba and I are in another. Barbara: That's all. Elvis: So we are actually a thousand miles away from Chicago. Thousands of miles away. Barbara: Yes, sir. Elvis: but we're still going to feature a conversation that I actually got while at the Cal Lab association meeting. Barbara: Go Cale. Elvis: back in February. Yeah, Bird wasn't there, blah, blah. But there's no secret that I love a good conversation about implants and surgeries. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: Yeah. So when the creator of Optis Splint reached out to us about being on the podcast and I actually found out they're going to be at Calab. Danny Yao: yeah. Elvis: Let's make this work. Barbara: Heck yeah. Elvis: And we arranged a time and they came over. Now I've listened to this a few times editing things like that and I've kind of noticed that I geeked out so much in my excitement. Barbara: Osh. Elvis: I don't think I actually really explained simply what Optis Splint was. Basically, they're metal Russell Crocketters that you screw into a multi unit abutment, right? Barbara: Yep. Elvis: Then they get all looted together and then you're able to scan it with an iOS and because they're looted together, you're able to get one consistent scan accurately. Danny Yao: Wow. Elvis: Now that you get the gist of it. Barbara: Got it. Elvis: We'renna get deep into it in this. Barbara: Conversation and everybody, all our listeners know you love implants. Danny Yow and Dr. Russell Crockett created Optni Splint Elvis: So first up is Danny Yow. He has a history with the NDX in sequence. Right. So he's into that. And with Strahman. He spent a lot of time with Strahman. So this dude knows some implants. It was when he was visiting a dental school that he met Dr. Russell Crockett. Now Dr. Crockett had a simple but unique way of doing these cases without the need of photogrammetry. So together they worked on creating Optni Splint. And after a lot of testing, a couple revisions, they eventually partnered with RO Dental Lab and the workflow started growing in popularity. Now they have a whole company where they sell Omnis Splint and Arch Tracers, all under the name of Digital Arches. So join us as we chat with Danny Yow and Dr. Russell Crockett. Are you a dental lab in need of more talent Russell Crockett: Are you a dental lab in need of more talent to improve your bottom line and keep production on schedule? Are you a dental tech with great skills but feel you're being limited at your current lab? Well, the answer is here. Hi, I'm Russell Crockett from winw Wingo. And this is precisely why Win Wingo was created. The dental lab and dental tech community needed a place where labs and technicians can meet, talk about their needs, and connect in ways that foster a win win outcome. As a tech, if you're ready to make a change, thinking about m moving in the next year or just curious what's out there, sign up today. It's totally free. As a lab, you might be feeling the frustration of paying the big employment site so much and getting so few tech candidates. We understand they don't much care about our industry. WinNgo.com is simply the best place for lab techs and lab owners to actively engage in creating their ideal future. WinWindGo.com, how dental techs find paradise. Elvis: Voices from the Bench, the interview. I can't even remember how we connected. Danny Yao: I think I emailed you because I was listening to some of your podcasts. Elvis: I'm like, yes. Danny Yao: You know, all these. You've been, like, talking all these people that I know. I'm like, we should probably, see if we can get in there as well. Elvis: Yeah. So what? The creator of the Opti splinit emails me and I'm like, super nerd and out. Because I'm like, I probably just did an omnis splint case that day that week or something. That's so cool. Russell Crockett: Fantastic. Elvis: Yes. He's like, can we do this? I'm like, calab, I'll be there. And I'm like, this is how it worksome. Here we are. Calab. Danny Yao: Yeah. Elvis: Danny. Danny Yao: Yow. Elvis: Yow. Danny Yao: Yep. Elvis: And Dr. Russell Crockett. Yep. Like Davey. Russell Crockett: Like Davy. Elvis: Yeah. You get that a lot. Russell Crockett: I do. Elvis: My. Russell Crockett: My dad's name is Davey, so. Elvis: Are you serious? Russell Crockett: Yeah. Danny Yao: Yeah. Elvis: That's funny. Russell Crockett: Joke. Elvis: That is hilarious. Danny Yao: That's something I didn't know about him. Elvis: There you go. Danny started in pharmaceutical sales after he graduated from college So I don't know who wants to start, but let's. Danny, give me your story. How do. How do you come up with one of the coolest things I've ever done? Danny Yao: I really appreciate you saying that, but, Yeah, I mean, I'm not a dental person by, I guess, career or anything. Elvis: Yeah, Really. Danny Yao: I started in pharmaceutical sales after I graduated from college and, did that for a while. Elvis: Hard. Danny Yao: Well, back then it was cool. Elvis: Drugs. I mean. Danny Yao: I mean, back then, early 2000, that was a fun job, man. I was. It was like, we had sweets, the Lakers, we're flying people to Hawaii all the time. We played golf every week. And that before sunshine, before the sunshine act was actually enforced, man, that was a fun job. And then it got real sad after the sunshine act. they took everything away from us. Elvis: Did you learn pharmaceutical sales in college? Danny Yao: No. Elvis: We have a college degree. Danny Yao: Something you can't use a college. I had a degree in biology. I went to ucla. Elvis: O. Okay. Danny Yao: I got a degree in biology. Didn't know what I want to do with my life, so I spent a year in Japan teaching English. Elvis: Oh, no kidding. That's fun. Danny Yao: And then, I went backpacking for six months around Asia. Elvis: Holy shmoly. Danny Yao: And then from there, I finally ended up coming back here. And then selling drugs. Elvis: Yeah. Okay. Danny Yao: And I thought, like, it seemed like the ideal job, right? Like, you work from home, you go and eat nice dinners every weekoo. yeah. All of my coworkers were beautiful weons. It was incredible. It was a craz. Elvis: Why the hell they hire you? Danny Yao: I was the nerdy guy they sent in when they wanted the doctor to actually talk to somebody. Elvis: Oh, you knew what you were talking. Danny Yao: I. Yeah, that was that nerd. I was a nerdy guy that, you know, kind of got along with them, and I was like, the one that would, like, kind of pull them out of their little bit and then. Elvis: Yep. Yeah. Danny Yao: And then the, beautiful women would close the deal. Elvis: All right, so sunshine act. Put the. Put the. Danny Yao: Yeah. Elvis: Stop to all the fun. Danny Yao: Yep. so I went into medical device sales for a bits. Didn't love it. Elvis: It's such a broad term. What are you selling? Come on. Danny Yao: I was selling, it was called the orthop pa. It was basically a blood autot transfusion device. So during surgery, the blood would come out of the patient because, you know, they're bleeding or whatever. They would suck it up. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And then it would get. Go through this machine. It would get concentrated, and it would get, like, the patient's own blood would get given back to them instead of o. It was a cool machine. Elvis: Yeah, that sounds, fun. Yeah, it sounds expensive. Danny Yao: And we were in the surgeries. It was neat, right? Elvis: Oh, you actually were there when they were using it. Danny Yao: You know, all things. All this stuff comes to an end. Right. It's like, you don't. If you hit your number or you don't hit your Number there's all these stuff going on. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: Sales jobs are just like that, right? Elvis: Yep. Yep. Danny Yao: And then I ended up in Dentium, which is my first dental job. Elvis: Dentium. Danny Yao: It was a. Elvis: Sounds familiar. Danny Yao: It was a. Elvis: About the Allean banks. Danny Yao: We don't an actually one of the Allean banks is probably one of the only people that actually. No, go for it. I actually wanted. I have stories about Alan, man. Like when we were early in developed because RO Dental lab. RO Dental lab was the guys that launched us really. They basically discovered us I want to tell you this before you leave. RO Dental lab was the guys that launched us really. Like they. Grammetry was the first like, introduction of Optis split to the world. Elvis: I didn't realize that. Danny Yao: Yeah. and they were. They basically discovered us. Like we found them at Denply World in 2022 or. Yeah. And then we showed it to them. They were the first ones that were like, this is. You know. Elvis: Did you show it to other labs that said this is stupid. And it was row that. Or were they just. Danny Yao: I mean. I think they. I mean, back then, not many people got it. Elvis: No. Row has always been the leader of that. Danny Yao: And I will say Alan is the reason for that. Elvis: Of course. Danny Yao: Like, not many people. And you could. You could be test this. Like, we talked to a lot of people, about our product. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: Alan is one of the few people that actually added to it. Elvis: Added to it and made it better. Danny Yao: there's a lot of things just like that and like just talking about it just in general with you. Most of the time me and Russ will be like, yeah, like somebody will come to us when a new idea make our product better. And we'd be like, yeah, we did that ago. Russell: They picked up on it really fast too. It was like they just understood it right away. Danny Yao: Yep. Elvis: Nice. Danny Yao: Yeah, that's right. So that was. Well, we could go into that story. Elvis: Come on, keep moving. We're talking to these gentlemen. It's fun. Why it lasted. Danny Yao: Yeah. Okay, so medical device sales. Did you start going out and doing conversions and stuff Elvis: Okay, so medical device sales. Blood fusion. Danny Yao: Yeah. Blood aut transfusion. Now I'm in, Den Denium, which is a Korean dental implant company. They are probably the number two behind hssn, I think around the world selling. They were trying to come into. Yeah, they were trying to come into the U.S. they were having, you know, not a lot of success. They still haven't really gained a lot of the success that ye people don't really know about them. So I spent a few years there. Elvis: wow. And thener, than most rep. Yeah. Danny Yao: And then ended up at, Dentium selling endo files oh, whoul. Dental specialties. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: They had an implant division. And then, I went from there to Strahman, where I was an institutional account manager. and I sold to universities, which is where I met, Dr. Crockett here. Elvis: Okay. Danny Yao: He was a resident at UCLA at the time. and I covered, like, all the universities and VA centers around LA area. Elvis: Oh, okay. Yeah. Danny Yao: And so, you know, Loma Linda University, usc, all the residency programs were under kind of my purview, as. Elvis: Did they all use strawman expively? Danny Yao: They all. They all do now. I do your job. Yeah. I am very prideful of the work I did there. I did feel like I made a pretty big impact for Strahman in those days. I think a lot of the residents there probably have a pretty good legacy for Strahman, and it continues today. Like, you'll go back to those programs they're still doing, and they're still doing Stramaman most of the time. So it's nice to see that when you've made that kind of impact. Elvis: Absolutely. Danny Yao: from there, I ended up at In Sequence, which is where I started to get my, my full arch chops, I guess. Elvis: Is that NDX's? Danny Yao: Yeah, yeah. It had just been acquired by NDX. One of the, managers that used to work for Strahman ended up over there, and she became, like, the director of sales for NDX In Sequence. Elvis: Did you start going out and doing conversions and stuff? Danny Yao: So I was first one of the first two salespeople that they hired, to kind of teach kind of this whole idea to. I was covering the whole west co. I was covering the whole West Coast. I've never flew that much my life. It was from Kansas City all the way West. Elvis: Wow. Danny Yao: so were. I was just traveling every week doing, you know, programs, you know, doing lab programs, things like that, and then just going to surgeries, taking care of customers that were doing it, things like that. Elvis: Ye. Danny Yao: And yeah, I mean, it was when I was a Stromman rep and Russ was still at UCLA. or, sorry, Dr. Ha was. Russell Crockett: No, you're good. Elvis: only titles, please. Danny Yao: He actually rep in 2015. Russell Crockett: probably closer to. Yeah. 2015, 2016, 2015. Danny Yao: He replicated NDX In Sequence himself in his residency program. Elvis: Do you want to omit this copyrightting on the air? What do you mean? Russell Crockett: Well, we weren't selling guides or anything. Danny Yao: Ye. But he was able to actually create it himself. Russell Crockett: Yeah, it was. Yeah, that's kind of where my store, part of this kind of started was when I met Dan at ucla. He and then my director, pro director at the time, Kumar Shah really were pushing COD diagnostics and some other, you know, Strahman related. Yeah, yeah, planning and got way into digital design, restorative and then surgical planning. And over the course of a couple years during residency just got really good at cad. And then I realized that if I really wanted to be free, I needed to learn actual CAD in, you know, autodesk. Elvis: O. And so you taught yourself all that? Russell Crockett: Yeah, now I don't know how, how good I am in terms of like bigger things, but yeah, know, I learned Fusion360 which is one of autodesks, CAD programs and just practice with that. Just did different projects just for fun and got better and better at it. but yeah, was it was during residency that I really learned a lot of that stuff and it set the stage for what we ended up doing later. Elvis: So you made your own stackable guide with the prosthesis that's connects and the holes. Russell Crockett: Yeah, yeahrining. Yeah. UCLA was doing a big transition into digital dentistry at the time. We they were spending money on new scanners, 3D printers, Mills. Elvis: Yeah. For school to be that progressive. Russell Crockett: Yeah, yeah. So from a graduate level it was great. And me being the how far along I was with the residency, it was an opportunity for me to jump in and kind of just do whatever I wanted to do because nobody really knew how to do anything at the time because it was such, such brand new stuff. So I was kind of given freedom to jump in and play with the mills, printers, do designs, try different things. So I really spent a lot of time in the office, in the digital lab versus seeing patients. So I could argue that some of my training from a clinical standpoint suffered a little bit because I spent so much time, I had a faculty that used to make fun of me because I would spend more time in the office than on the clinical floor. But no, it all came together and things worked out. Danny Yao: So he was making surgical guides and temporaries and the whole thing. Right. That you would get from. In sequence just in the same way, just for his residencecy program. Right. So like the other residents that were there that were doing cases, they were doing surgery, the whole thing. He was there, he would be there designing all of that stuff. Daniel Lop started 3D printing for surgical purposes It getting ready for surgery, getting it ready there. and it all came from him being frustrated because I think like they were doing in sequence cases and then they did some kind of like big speaker event that the AO and overnight they became the sensation. Right. For in sequence. O. OK With Daniel Lop. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And they just went from like oh, we can get it back to you in 20 days to like, oh, I'm sorry, it's gonna take you three months for us to get like, they got too busy. And so he was just like, well, they're gonna take that long. I'm just gonna do this myself. Elvis: So what program did you do? I'm on. Russell Crockett: So I would pair code diagnostics with mesh mixer. Elvis: Okay. Russell Crockett: And then my introduction to actual CAD was the mesh mixer, sister program that no longer exists. 1, 2, 3D design. Elvis: Oh, never heard of it. Ye. Russell Crockett: Yeah, I started using that. It was free and I could do basic designs. Part of it was that I wanted to 3D print, articulator plates attached to my models so that I could 3D print everything already articulatedh and click it onto the articulator. So I was designing articulator plates. Super nerdy. Elvis: Yeah. But, Russell Crockett: So. But using that program and then they discontinued it and they stopped servicing the software so you couldn't get it. So I ended up getting like just the academic version of Fusion360. Elvis: Yeah. Nice. Russell Crockett: And. And started using that from there on. But it was for the surgical guys. It was just COD diagnostics and mesh mixer. Elvis: And what were you printing on at this time? Russell Crockett: we had a. I think it was a J700. It was a large Polyjet printer from Stratys. Elvis: Oh, str. Russell Crockett: So I print the models and the guides on that. And we had. I think we had a Bago printer for. As a vat printer that we printed some guides on. So. All right, so you're selling in sequence. Right. Because when I was looking at a sequence I was like this has a lifespan noweah Elvis: All right, so you're selling in sequence. Danny Yao: Yeah, So I was, I was doing strong. I was at strawman at the time. Elvis: Okay. Danny Yao: When he did all that because I. Because I provided him COD agnostics. I got him the first. Their first lab scanner. I got them all that stuff so they can kind of get it all digitized so that can start doing that stuff. Right. So one of the things that I've always kind of done in my life was just kind of always takes stock of who around me is reRussell Crockettable. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: Right. And he was one of those people like I just never could believe all the things that he was able to accomplish in his residency program as somebody who should been. Probably should been seen more patient, probably. Elvis: Should have learned how to prep at that time. Danny Yao: Being able to do it at will. Right. Like he just created things just because he wanted to and he just was interested in being able to create it. So I just kind of just wanted to stay in touch with them. so I ended up in sequence. While I was in a sequence we started to hear about digital workflows. for full ar, we started to hear about photogrammetry. it was about 20, 2020. Right. and so I was talking to the pick people I was talking to, like Camille I met you had him on the podcast. I was talking to a lot of those people just trying to get an idea of what it was, how it worked. Because when I was looking at a sequence I was like this is like in sequence has a lifespan noweah. Because that's next, right? Elvis: Yeah, yeahe. Danny Yao: And I was thinking about my job and I was like well is this gonna be viable? Right? Is this job gonna be viable? And so I wanted to really understand what that next kind of evolution was. And he and he and I sat down to dinner because I was in Arizona. He's in Arizona, I'm in California. We were sitting down to dinner and we were just talking about it and I was telling him, he's like oh yeah, I already looked into all that stuff. And then he's like I already kind of designed something that I think will work. And he shows me this photo right. Of stuff that he was working on. It was 3D printing it in his house. Russell Crockett: Yeah, I had a prototype of it. Elvis: Of the OPIS split. Russell Crockett: Yeah, yeah. Kind of an early version that wasn't really a fully functional product at that point is more of a. I was going toa publish it. It was going to be in a study. Elvis: Was the concept the same? Russell Crockett: Very similar. The concepts changed a lot though. on how to achieve the accuracy. First started the idea came from a. There was an article in the March 2019 JPD issue and it was about using a tissue supported device that would sit around implant scan bodies. It was custom made for the arch. Elvis: Slipped like slip over. Russell Crockett: You'd slip over. And it improved scanning accuracy but it's tissue supported. And the study was done on a. On benchtop, on stone. So it's like okay, on stone. Great. It shows that the intra oral scanning improves. Yeah, exactly. So. But I was like well that's, that's great but it doesn't make sense clinically. I think something needs to be attached physically to the implants. And so we designed it. I designed the prototype with the wings facing inwardly so you can scan across Y and it allows you to stitch to something rigid and you don't have to rely on the soft tissue for, inter implant stitching. Did you start this whole grammetry thing? Was there anything out Elvis: Did you start this whole grammetry thing? Was there anything out? Russell Crockett: I have no idea. Danny Yao: No. I mean that there was some like, stuff that was being developed. Like Nexus iOS was still in Australia being developed. OK. And we heard about it. It wasn't released yet. There's another company called Tectonic that Strahman recently acquired that was also creating something that they were trying to scan with int. Internal scans. Right. Elvis: But nobody's really doing this yet. Danny Yao: Not really. I mean everybody. Photogrammetry was just coming to Russell Crockettet. Elvis: Yah. Danny Yao: Right. Or it'd probably been Russell Crockettet for five years, but nobody understood it and nobody had a way to really implement it. Russell Crockett: It seems like everybody was thinking about it at the time and you know, it could be one of those things where people had similar ideas kind of in. In unison, in parallel. There was nothing published. M. And that was the purpose of it. As I was gonna do this and I was gonna do an accuracy study benchtop. Elvis: You're just looking to write a nerdy paper. Russell Crockett: I was just, yeah, looking to write a paper. Yeah. To get the publication. But getting busy with things. Private practice, partially, maybe some laziness. Elvis: You've now graduated M. You've opened up your own. Russell Crockett: Yeah, this was probably two or three years after I had graduated and it just sat collecting dust for about a year. Danny Yao: Didn't do anything a year before I talked to him about it. Elvis: Mean we could have been doing this a year earlier. So you've developed this prototype, the ideas there. Russell Crockett: And it was all about intraoral scanning. IOS relying on iOS for accuracy. Danny Yao: Improving iOS trying to improve the accuracy of iOS with a device that is allowing you to stitch hard parts like things that you would scan that are all hard. Basically what a lot of different companies are trying to release today, from Roe Archbridge to the easy. Elvis: Oh, the evolves one evolves thing. Danny Yao: The eas, eas, there's a. Elvis: Lot of them out thereeah. Danny Yao: The true abutment thing that they're talking about that they've been in contact with 3shape1, like all of those things are trying to improve intraoral scanning. They're trying to make intraoral scanning more perfect and more accurate. But the reality, and we were trying to do the same thing right. In 2020 we were trying to figure it out, trying to figure out how we can makeal scanning more perfect because that's the big problem, right, is how do we get highly, highly accurate dental implant positions at a reasonable cost. and doing it with technology that we have. Right. And what we kept running into was there's just this human factor of role scanning that you cannot get rid of the hand moment. Who's doing it M who trained you to scan? You can tell people how to scan properly all you want, but at the end of the day, every single intial oral scanner is different and scanning process has to be different. Every single person scans differently. They start from a different spot, they end at a different spot. They have different techniques to get more accuracy. there's so many factors that can change the accuracy of that scan that just don't that for us we wanted to create something that was a true alternative photogramtrye and we wanted to be able to have something that we felt prosthodontists could do it and the assistant helping a general dentist can do it. and they would get the same result. And that was our goal and we were just not achieving that. So that was one of the hardest lessons that we had to learn. Russell Crockett: And I think it was even the very first case that we did with the original version. was a big breakthrough for us because we realized that relying on just intraoral scanning, especially during a surgery, is just not going to be reliable. And it was a pretty rough case because there was a lot of bone reduction for implants on the mandible. We put these things on and it was difficult to scan and it's like. Elvis: Okay, so which scanner did you use that first time? Do you remember? Danny Yao: Just dense. Russell Crockett: I think it was. Yeah, I think it was. It was a prime scan. Elvis: Yeah. Okay, so that's not the. Russell Crockett: It was a prime scan. Yeah. Elvis: What was it? Russell Crockett: The shape, A lot of saliva, a lot of blood. Elvis: Just keep be with every surgery. Russell Crockett: Exactly. And so we were at the time using frames to loot on. But the frame was simply to improve scanning the because the wings were a fixed length. And so we used the frame but we weren't rigidly attaching it. We were using basically PV or I think it was blue moose. The bite registration material. We'd attach it, just give us a. Elvis: Nice CLE moose around it. Russell Crockett: Yeah, We'put blue moose on the wings and then seat the frame on it just to hold it in place, semi rigidly just to get the nice scan. But on it it was rough. Danny Yao: Delivered a temporary prosthesis. Russell Crockett: That day we delivered one. Elvis: My important thing, my confidence. Don't care if it's 11 o'clock at night. Russell Crockett: Yeah. My confidence in it was not greate but it did prove a few things. One is speed. Russell Crockett: The whole process was fast enough to 3D print a temporary prosthesis right then and there. And the other thing was that we realized we needed to. We're practically looting this thing together anyways. Let's just use a rigid material. The original idea was to scan this thing outside of the mouth Then we could take it out of the mouth and scan it outside the mouth. Danny Yao: Yeah. Elvis: So the original idea was to scan this thing outside of the mouth. Russell Crockett: In the mouth. Danny Yao: In the mouth. Russell Crockett: That was the original. Danny Yao: The original. Elvis: Then you switch it to scanning it outside of the mo. Russell Crockett: Yeah. Danny Yao: Right. Rigidly looted together. Peacece. Elvis: Do people still do that scann how we do it outside of the mouth? Danny Yao: It should be done that way because why it wrong? Why fight blood tissue? Elvis: So wa. Wait. a minute. Danny Yao: Ah, there's no reason to. Elvis: You're supposed to flap implants, M multi units. Put this thing in, loot it together with the honeycomb thing, take it out and then scan it. Yeah, but then how do you get it into relation to the soft tissue. Danny Yao: Or scan caps that we. Elvis: I use those too. Danny Yao: Yeah. So those are the same shape as the back of the scam bodies. Elvis: You just blew my f in mind. Danny Yao: So we did everything we can inside the mout. Russell Crockett: It'll. Yeah. Thosean caps have half of that scan. Well, half of the opti splint, matches this. Elvis: That's crazy. Russell Crockett: It matches the geometry of theructions. Elvis: I'just kidding. Russell Crockett: Could be helpful. Elvis: Yeah. Russell Crockett: anyways, it allows you to scan the tissue separately and it gives you a direct alignment to the opti splint. Elvis: And also that honeycomb thing doesn't cover crushianary screws. That's what we struggle with. Danny Yao: Yep. Elvis: We're like, you can't get the screw, but you're supposed to take that thing out. Russell Crockett: Yeah. Danny Yao: And then you can wash it, you can clean it and dry it. And then we have a scan plate that we sell and then you stick it on the scan plate and then you just scan it outside the mouth with your internal scanner. You're never going to get a more accurate scan. Elvis: I can't wait to talk to this guy. I work with the on these things. That's hilarious. Russell Crockett: Then of course, if you have a desktop scanner. Right there. That's even better. Elvis: Oh, you could. Oh, that makes sense. Danny Yao: Yeah. Russell Crockett: It's one. Danny Yao: And that's what we recommend for finals because now you have like this beautiful verification jig. Right. And then you could scan it in a desktop scanner. Four microns of accuracy. Now we're achieving the Same level of accuracy. O. Elvis: That's nuts. Danny Yao: of photogrammetry. Right. and that's ultimately what we wanted this product to be like. We, when we were developing it, it took us three years to develop it from 2020 to 2022. Elvis: What changed, like, was it originally was printed material? Russell Crockett: Yeah. They were made out of plastic. And then it all goes back to rigidity. You need this thing to be rigid. Elvis: And so the shape is very weird. I. Russell Crockett: It's a bizarre shape. Danny Yao: Yeah. Elvis: Yeah. You know what, when we scan it, it looks like, like a military. Almost like a naval nautical like thing. Don'so. Russell Crockett: The shape was originally designed for intraoral scanning. Elvis: Okay. Which we successfully do every time. So we don't need to'not taper to it. Russell Crockett: Things like that. So that was part of the evolution too. Elvis: It. Russell Crockett: I would say that's more of a vestigial aspect of it is the taper. But it's still easy. It still makes it easier to scan outside the mouth just because of the taper. In a desktop scanner, if you're not doing like a wax up scan, it, you can capture most of it. Elvis: And someone told me the idea of looting it together was more. So when you printed a model, you have a verification jig. Yeah, but I'm like, we don't print. I mean, why. Optis Splin allows you to do clinical remount digitally Russell Crockett: Yeah. Or you just pour an analog patty cast. Elvis: Yeah. Oh, I know somebody that does it. Yeah, Doctorille does. Russell Crockett: That's. That's what I do often. Yeah. I'll pour the analog patty cast that way. If I ever want to do a clinical remount with, the prototype try. I can do that. Obviously you can do that modelus as well. After you adjust occlusion of the prototype, you can scan and, and rem. Do a clinical remount digitally. Yeah, but yeah, sometimes I like to do it physically if I feel like there's a need. Elvis: That's crazy. Danny Yao: And that's one of the real unique things about Optislin, right. Is that when you really think about what it takes to achieve clinical passivity for a patient, you know, this whole digital workflow kind of revolution that's happening is really they're trying to do everything fully digital. Right. Have no analog part, piece of it at all and just modelus everything. Right. The problem with that is at the end of the day, to achieve clinical passivity, you need to get an absolutely ideal record of the implant positions. Photogrammetry obviously can give you that. But you also need a way to validate your manufacturing. Elvis: Hm. Danny Yao: Because when you take that perfect record and you make a temporary prost in a 3D print it. How accurate is 3D printing? Yeah, it's not great. Elvis: It's not there. Yeah. Danny Yao: And then centintering zirconia people are milling zirconia directly to making zirconia prosthetics directly to theua now. Right. Elvis: Ah. Danny Yao: And I mean, is it actually that accurate when you actually do that? I mean, milling's very accurate, but then centintering and all that stuff, is it always going to center perfectly to get it to that size? Probably most of the time it will, but the few times it won't, that's when you can cause problems. Right? Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And claiming the kind of accuracy that photogrammetry does and saying, hey, we're everything that you make from this record is going to be perfect. Well, that's not really true because they can't control the manufacturing. They can only give you a great record. Whereas Optis splint and the difference between Optis Splin and everything else that's out there is that we can actually give you something tangible to allow you to validate and verify everything. Elvis: Yeah. Becausee all the other systems, once you unscrew them, they're no longer. Danny Yao: Exactly. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And so you can make a patty model from the OptisWint jig. If you can always recheck that jig on the patient and then you can always recheck it on your model and then you can take whatever you make, you can check it on that model and as long as it's passive on the model, you know for sure that that's going to fit passively on the page. Elvis: That's awesome. Danny Yao: So there's nothing else out there on the Russell Crockettet that allows you to do that. And that is true clinical full arch like standards. what clinical full art standards should be. Yeah, right. Is that we are certain that something's going toa fit perfectly before we put it in. Not just hoping. Elvis: Oh, but the hoping'half the fun. Keeps us interesting. How did you bring the Optis splinte to Russell Crockettet Okay, so you've designed this thing. How did you even bring it to Russell Crockettet? Danny Yao: So that was a big story as well. Elvis: I mean, we obviously you probably tried to sell it to implant companies. Did you grow there? Danny Yao: We did meet a lot me with a lot of different implant companies, but without it being proven and the niche nature of this product made it really hard to understand. Elvis: Sure. Danny Yao: I, was still working in sequence and NDX at the time that we were developing. Elvis: You did this? Danny Yao: I tried to actually show it to them. Elvis: Really? Danny Yao: The high executives at ndx and they just didn't understand it. Elvis: Wow. Danny Yao: And they were like, you know, just kind of. We had meetings with B Horizon, we had meeting. Meeting with Nobel. We had meeting with Strahman. And the problem is the people that are having these meetings are not full AR experts. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And how many FL art experts actually are there out there? There's not that many. Elvis: There's many, right? Danny Yao: Yeah. Especially. Especially at dental implant companies. Right. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: Those guys are. They're probably smart as hell. But then this is such a niche, unique, small Russell Crockettet. Ah. That in order to be a true expert and understand it at the level to really appreciate what optislinn is. It's rare. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And so being able to communicate what it was and how it was and, you know, a lot of them were just like, well, it's not fully digital, so. And all we want to do is move to fully digital. So what's the point of this thing? Right. and so at that point, we were trying. We had our design, we had our concept. you've done. Were testing cases. Yeah, we're testing it. Elvis: Are you the doctor doing all the cases on this thing? Danny Yao: Yeah. Russell Crockett: I mean, at first I was. I was the main one testing it. And then we would work with a couple other doctors that oral surons helped us a lot just because of their volume. Elvis: Sure. Russell Crockett: I do full spectrum prosthodontics. So while I do full arch, it's not probably at the volume we needed to properly test everything. Elvis: Taking a while to go to Russell Crockettet. Russell Crockett: So we went to a few other doctors to do some testing with them. Danny Yao: I mean, I shout him out. It's Dr. Eric Baker and Tim Betita out of Huntington beach or Dana Point. they have a lab technician, Lenny Leiona, that was there that, helped us out a lot in terms of, like, just trying out the cases, trying out the Optis splinte. They got a photogrammetry machine. We were comparing them. Elvis: Oh, really? Danny Yao: Interesting. You know, trying to do it that way versus our way. We even had a race one day to see you can do it faster. I think we actually won that race. Right. Russell Crockett: We were done by 10:00amI. Danny Yao: Yeah, we were done by 10:00aM they're still trying to scan stuff. Elvis: Really? Danny Yao: Because they were re having trouble doing the introal scans, I think. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And like. And, Yeah, I mean, we were able to do cases like, you know, kind of every single day. Because they had cases every single day. Elvis: Yeah. Russell Crockett: Like Curry Levitt. We did a lot of cases. Danny Yao: We. A lot of. To Curry Levitt. Yeah. Y. That's right. and he was awesome too. Like, he really tried to kind of get as many cases for us as he could let us. Russell Crockett: He'd let us come in and set up the printers and everything. Need to. Yeah. Danny Yao: Yeah. So we kind of proved the model of being able to actually go and provide the service to a office. Right. As a lab. Calab developed a disposable dental jig made out of aluminum Elvis: So how the hell do you end up at Calab selling it? How did you bring it to Russell Crockettet? You know? Danny Yao: So from there we had to figure out how to manufacture it. And that was, that was challenging because, like, we. I don't have any manufacturing experience. I don't phone, don't know materials. Elvis: Who does metal? Yeah, yeah. Danny Yao: So I happened to speak Mandarin Chinese. I grew up speaking Chinese. So my first thought was, well, let's just find out who. Let's just see if we can find a milling center in China. But my problem was I didn't want to just go to a dental company in China because I was worried they'd steal it. They'd just steal it. Yeah. And so I had to find a milling company in China that had no experience just making small component parts. Right? Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And then I had to teach them how to manufacture at the level of tolerances that we needed because they had to be made at about 20/ton oricro 20 microns of tolerance. Yeah. So between one scanby to another, they couldn't vary more than about 20 microns. Right. Elvis: Really. Danny Yao: And that was challenging for them because most of the stuff they're making was just novelty. Yeah, exactly. And so we had to figure out what material we had to make it out of. We ended up selling on aluminum because we wanted it. Elvis: Those are aluminum. Danny Yao: Yeah. O I didn't realize that we wanted a disposable material. we wanted a disposable product. Basically a single patient use product. We were in the middle of COVID when we were developing this, and we thought it made sense for us to make a single use product that you would just loot together. You would never know, try to take them apart or anything like that. Elvis: We can take this out later. But you know, everybody uses them multiple times, right? Danny Yao: Yeah. So that's not recommended, because it is made out of aluminum. And the reason why we chose aluminum also is because when you manufacture 10,000 of these at a time, it's easier to maintain those tolerances than when you're doing it with titanium. Because change this mills more. This is all stuff we learned. Elvis: ###N yeah. Russell Crockett: I m the cost of million titanium would have been really high. Elvis: Oh yeah. Danny Yao: And for us, I mean our price point was we had to keep it around 2, $300. It was what we were trying to. That was our goal is we want every single kit because we didn't want people to fits. It was going to be a one time use device. Elvis: Yeah. You can't charge thousands of dollars. Danny Yao: Right, Exactly. Elvis: I got to only use once. Danny Yao: And we were like, well, what does a doctor typically pay a dental lab to make a verification jig? About two, $300. Right. at least in that time. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And so that's what, that was our goal pricing. So we couldn't make things a certain way, you know, and to make it, I mean, we're still throwing away about 20% of what we make in the manufacturing center. Elvis: Because it's no good qc. Danny Yao: Yeah. Because it's just not milled to the tolerances that we should find somebody. Elvis: Else to make them. Danny Yao: But that's just reality. We self funded all of this at this point. Right. We didn't raise any money for this. No. But we were. Yeah. Like, I mean when I worked as Strauman, we had all these dummy implants because they were just. Oh, they did me. Elvis: Oh, I didn't realize that. Danny Yao: Yeah. Because every implant company, their standard is about 20 to 25 microns of accuracy. And so if it doesn't meet that standard, they just get thrown into a big pile of dummy implants. Right. And so we kind of mimicked that tolerance and then we tried to make them. We had to make them at a scale. Right. Of like 2000-3000-4000-5000 at a time. But that was our model. Right. We wanted to create a product that would just be continually bought. Right. because we felt like if we just made something that was reusable and we sold it once, like that wasn't a viable business either. Elvis: No. I mean, obviously. Danny Yao: Yeah. And then what happens when something else. But so we just thought that we had to create an actual business model that would actually be sustainable in a way that would allow us to bring this product to Russell Crockettet. And so that's kind of that challenge that we had to figure out. And so we did end up getting the right manufacturer over time. I actually started a dental or kind of a dental distribution company or manufacturing company in China myself. Elvis: Oh, Jez. That's one way to find when you want. Danny Yao: Well, we had to control a lot of, the process bringing it over here. Right. So that's what I use that company for. Elvis: Wow. Danny Yao: And then finally we were able to kind of bring everything over and then we launched it, I think August of 2022. Yep. We launched our web Paage our. The first time, and I think we sold one in August. One kit of like $400. Elvis: How are you pushing it out there? Danny Yao: We were two guys that have no business starting Buy Ad magazine. No, we were just trying to, like, I was going to shows. Well, for a year. I also was proving it on my own. I had left, in sequence at that time. And then I just started taking it to doctor's offices going, hey, man, if you want somebody to come in and do a conversion for you, I can do it with digital technology now. I'll bring my 3D printer and I'll do the whole thing in your office. And so I did that for a year. And then it's just a matter of, like, I started running some Facebook ads. I started. We sold one. Right. Elvis: That's. Danny Yao: And then October, I think we sold one or two. November. But then in October was when we went to den supplier Serrona World. Russell Crockett: Yeah. Danny Yao: And, in Las Vegas. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And Ro. Denal Lab was there. Elvis: Were you there as a booth? Danny Yao: No, we were just visiting. Elvis: Oh, your attendees. Danny Yao: Yeah, we were attending. I don't even know why we decided to attend it. Elvis: The band always go all. Danny Yao: It was cool. Elvis: Yeah, they go all out. Danny Yao: but we didn't actually go into that. We. Russell Crockett: Those tickets, was it the one with Journey? Danny Yao: Yeah, I think it was. Yeah. But we were. We self funded all of this at this point. Everything. Like, we didn't. We didn't raise any money for this. And so we at that point were just trying to get by. Right. And then so I went up to the row booth and they, at that time had a product called Smile Lock Rotoenalab. Elvis: Okay. Yeah. Danny Yao: I actually worked for them for like, a hot minute right after Strahman. Elvis: Yeah. Okay. Danny Yao: And like, that technology, to me, the reason why I left was because it just. It wasn't working. Like, I was trying to sell it and it would just. The crowns would come loose. Elvis: Oh. Danny Yao: You know, so when I saw that. Elvis: They had, I remember this little device. Yeah. Danny Yao: And then it would heat up and then it would. The thing would turn come off. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And so when I saw that they were, selling it and like, you know, pushing it as a product that was innovative and all that stuff for their full large cases, I was surprised. Row created Optis Splin, which is an alternative to photogrammetry And so I was like. So I went up to their booth, I was like, how is this going for you guys? You know? Yeah. And they. They were, like, all excited about it at the time. I think they're less excited about it now because'issues. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: But, you know, so I was like, oh, cool. And then they just happened to ask me, I think. I don't know who was there, but they were like, well, what are you guys doing here? What do you. What do you guys do? Who are you guys? Right. Russell Crockett: I think BJ was there. Danny Yao: Was it bj? Elvis: Was it bj? Yeah. Danny Yao: And we're like, well, you know, we're kind of just showing people this device that we created, Optis Splin. Right. And we showed it to him, and he was like, hold on. Like, wait, so this thing is supposed is you found. You figured out a way to basically, like, guarantee the accuracy of, the scan of the jig and the scan, right? We're like, yeah. And'like do you have any idea how many. How long we've been trying to figure this out ourselves? Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: I need you to meet Dr. Isaac Twell. And so he brought us to Dr. Isaac Towell, showed it to him, and he was like. He freaked out. And so this was like our first. Russell Crockett: I think he was asking us how much supply we had. Danny Yao: Yeah. Elvis: Really? Danny Yao: But this is our first like, like, introduction to people, like, getting excited about our product because we're like, oh, my God. Like, you understand it and you get it, you know? And so we started talking to them and we started to figure out, you know, if there's a way for them to launch it, and they wanted to private label it. That. That's how they ended up with. Elvis: That's what Row does. Danny Yao: Yeah, yeah. That's how they ended up with Grammetry Y. and so they are the only dental lab in the country that we allowed a private label Optis Splin. Elvis: But it's the same thing. Danny Yao: It's the same thing. And so we make, you know, custom boxes for themle the whole nine. They launched it, they put it out there on the Russell Crockettet. They got hundreds, like a thousand people on their first webinar. and they started talking about it. Elvis: Were you guys to talk on the webinar or was it. Danny Yao: No, it was all them. Elvis: Okay. Danny Yao: and then they introduced it to the world right. As their product, and we were fine with it because we were going nowhere with it at the time. Elvis: And you were just making money off of them, obviously. Danny Yao: Yeah. I mean, he wrote me a check for the biggest check I ever seen in my life. Elvis: Nice. Danny Yao: And so I was excited. Elvis: Got picture of it. Danny Yao: We probably do. I still have it. And then the same month, I also reached out to Dr. Ryan Dunlop, who. Elvis: Oh, sure, yeah. The masters. Danny Yao: Yeah, full arch Masters. And he was doing the Whole photogrammetry thing. And he thought it was interesting. Right. And so he said, hey, why don't you bring it up? I'm having another course coming up. Bring it up. Show it to me. Let's try it. Let's work. Let's do a couple cases. I went up there, we did a couple cases with them. And he was impressed. And he got it too. He understood, like, hey, this is the first time I'm seeing something where I feel I could. And I could hang my hat on it and say, this is just as good as photogrammetry. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And it's a good alternative photogrammetry. Elvis: It, Yeah. Danny Yao: And so from him talking about it there and Roe talking about at the same time, it really just kind of started to blow up. Right. Elvis: And there was no issues with Row selling theirs and you selling it. Danny Yao: I mean, that was the deal we made. Elvis: Right. Danny Yao: Because they. I mean, we were two guys. I was. I was pass sign it away out of my house, you know, Like, I. I had a lab in my. Starting in the garage. Yeah. That was totally true of Road My test lab was in my garage. Like the whole, like, you know, Steve Jobs and y. Steve Wasz. The garagee. Yeah. Starting in the garage. That was totally true of us too. And, you know, so we. I mean, we didn't. Had nowhere near the operation that Road did. Right. So we were grateful for all the business. And they were 50%. They were like our first month. They were 80, 90% of our business. Elvis: Sure. Because you still had the website up. Danny Yao: Yeah. Elvis: Selling. Danny Yao: So we would sell a few at every single one of the full arts masters because they recognized that, even though most of them were buying photogrammetry at the time, they would be like, well, what if the computer fails? What if the photogrammery machine fails? and so if those fail, you want to have some kind of backup. That's how we sold it there. And that went really well because Ryan put his, stamp of approval. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: That really helped us out a lot. That kind of propelled us to the next level. Right. and, we started to really generate sales from there, and it started to kind of really blow up. And then at the end of 2023, we started talking about, a fiducial Russell Crocketter. Danny Yao: And it was actually something that we had talked about. And we actually made a version of it before we launched Optis Splin Y. Russell Crockett: Probably for a solid year. We were talking about it and we had a. Yeah, just an early version of it that was just basically a cone that you put a tad screw. Danny Yao: Through, but it was titanium and you can attach it to. Elvis: That had to be titanium, right? Right. Yeah. Okay. Danny Yao: And that was kind of reusable too, in a sense that it was separate from the screw, you know. So, the screw that you would use it with was supposedly not reusable. Right. But then at least we tried selling those at the beginning. But then we were like, yeah, we've got to probably make something that actually is going to be better for this Russell Crockettet. Right. And we learned a lot more by then about fiducial Russell Crocketters. What were people using? And there was some other stuff out there on the Russell Crockettet. I think, the SegRussell Crockett guys had made something and there's some stuff out there, but there wasn't anything that people felt like they can get easily. So were still. A lot of people were still buying the salvin fixation. Elvis: Yeah, the Sal y. Russell Crockett: Some were 3D printing. Danny Yao: Yeah. Some were 3D printing something and just putting a screw through it, just hoping for the best. There was all these things out there and we were like, you know what? But like with our expertise and what we've been doing, we just need to create something that, you know, we believe in. Right? Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: And so we just started talking about it and he designed on his fusion autocad that he learned in a residency program. And you know, I felt like when we came out with that product, what's that called? Elvis: The Opt. Danny Yao: The Arch Tracer. Elvis: Arch Tracer, yeah, that was an Opti again. Danny Yao: And that was actually a name we had a long time ago as well for a secondary product next to Optislin. Optis Splin and Archraacer were the two brands that we had always thought about using. And so when we came out with our tracer and it again, it immediately started to get a lot of attention. people really liked it, it was working well. We made some tweaks to it over the first few months, to the version that you see today. and what's unique about it is it's unidirectional. So it's kind of the shape of it. There's only one direction that you could align to. Elvis: Yeahah. Danny Yao: There isn't like any, there aren't any sides that are symmetrical or by any means. and then we also made the thread have like a fillet up to the head so that it'll actually tighten when we recommend self tapping it. Right. And you screw it down. A lot of the other screws that were out there were like tenting screws. So when you screw it down there there's nothing really like just kept spinning. Yeah, it could keep spinning at some point. Right. Whereas with ours, because it tapers up to the head, there's a point where once as you're screwing it in, we'll just stop and it should stay pretty solidly. and so those were the things that we kind of added to it just to make it a little bit better. Right. don't you have to go through. Elvis: FDA for all this? Danny Yao: Yeah, so that's what we're starting now. Elvis: Oh geeez. Danny Yao: And so this stuff is. Yeah, I mean ye. You technically you do. And we are working on all that. We're doing our 510k, all that stuff. yeah, it's expensive, it's definitely a barrier to entry. but I mean the success that we've had and the manufacturing'been able to. Digital Arches has become darling of full arch digital dentistry world We've figured out how to manufacturer at a pretty reasonable cost and we've been able to generate enough revenue in order to in profit in order to fund a lot of what we wanted to do. We have, we have a patent out there on Optis Splint. We have a patent out there on actual verification jigs with a frame. Elvis: Oh really? Danny Yao: Without even scanning. nice. We have a patent on a new screw that we're working on and we're doing some other things that we're working on as well. It kind of coming up in the future as well. But like all that stuff just came from you know, the sales of Optis Splint and Archraacer over the last couple of years. And our tracer really has become, it was really neat to see it become like a darling of the full arch digital dentistry world. Right. Because it's being used by not just people who use Optis Splin, but people that use photogrammetry, iOS, the shining scanner. Like everybody that anytime you hear somebody ask or see somebody ask about a fiducia Russell Crocketter on Facebook or Instagram or stuff like that, you always see the people recommending our Tracerice. Elvis: That's the place you want to be. Danny Yao: Yeah. And that's been a lot of fun for us to see. Right. Elvis: So when did Digital Arches, the company start? Way back then. Or 20. Danny Yao: 20. Elvis: 2020. Okay. So it's always had that name. Danny Yao: So it was the dinner that we had that day and he showed me that prototype and he's like, I'm gonna do a study. And I said no, you shouldn't do a study. I want to be rich. And we should, you know, if that works, that's Gonna take over full arch dentistry. Yeah, it didn't work. Russell Crockett: But Danny's greed. Danny Yao: Yah, it was my greed that created this company. Russell Crockett: And I just wanted to be a selfless academic. Elvis: You're still wanting to write that paper, right? Nobody read. Are you still a practicing dentist? Russell Crockett: Yeah, yeah. I practice in Tempe, Arizona. Elvis: Okay. How involved are you with day to day operations still at Optis Russell Crockett: Ye onest Russell Crockett Montana. Elvis: I mean how involved are you with the day to day operations still? Really? Russell Crockett: Yeah, kind of the higher end tech support. I'll jump on with people. Danny Yao: He is R and D Y. He is. Russell Crockett: I still get on and design a lot. So really on future products, things like that. Elvis: Fun. Russell Crockett: I'll jump on. Elvis: Yeah. Yeah. What are the future products? Russell Crockett: But less, I would say less involved from a day to day perspective with the business. Elvis: Then you're not in this garage packaging, right? Russell Crockett: Exactly. Danny Yao: We're not packaging in a garage anymore. We do have an office. Elvis: Oh, do you? For you. That's a. Danny Yao: It is an FDA facility. Register facility. No, I mean he's he. I mean we, we still have. And this is part of the, the most fun I've ever had in any kind of job that I've ever done. And we still have these amazing conversations all the time about like nerty impation. Talking about pieces, parts, what could be better, what could be different, what's working, what's not working. And we've developed a lot of neat things like the AR tracer, like unique, parts of the Optis splin that just aren't available in other systems. Right. So the scan cap that you easily align directly to tissue to the implant positions. The analog scan cap that allows you toign the bite from a temporary prosthesis, to the impl positions. So in every single opti swing kit that you would get, you should be getting a couple packages of our analog scan caps. A friction fit into a temporary prosthesis in the analog positions in the intaglioface. Elvis: And then what? Danny Yao: And then you could also put those same analog SC caps into an Optis. Elvis: Splin jig to verify. Danny Yao: And then you could just align those two together. Because right now if you want to, And let's say the patient got a converted denture and they want to go from analog workflow to a digital workflow for the final. The lab would tell them, well need you to. If I'm doing photogrammetry, I need you to scan the upper, the prosthesis and then let's say the prohesis on the upper. The scan of the prosthesis and the Lower dentition, the opposing dentition and then the bite. Right. But when you scan the upper I need you to scan as much of the soft tissue, soft tissue, palate, everything. Because I'm going to use all that to align the bite 100% to the implant positions. Right. Well what we did instead of forcing because on lowers that's a nightmare. Right. So what we did was instead of forcing people to scan all that extra random stuff on the lower and tissue and bone or whatever, we created these analog scan caps that you would just put into you. You would scan the bite still but you would take out the temporary prosthesis and then you just put those analog scan caps in the temporary prosthesis. Elvis: Yah. Danny Yao: You would loot together the Optis splint in the mouth, take it out and then you would put the analog scan caps in the Optis splint. Elvis: And now so you're scanning the bottom of the Optis splin and then the bottom of the temporary you took out with the same analog and then that. Danny Yao: And then now you have a way of easily aligning called. They're analogs handcaps. Elvis: That's not fancy. Danny Yao: They're in our. They're in our kits. They're in every kit. Elvis: I got a kit. I don't know. I gott look again. Why don't even read the instructions apparetly. So that's wild. Danny Yao: So yeah, I mean that gives you the ability to easily align all of your data without needing to go through the trouble of scanning and all that. Hard to scan data. Elvis: Yeah, no for sure. Fascinating. Danny Yao: That stuff like that that just come from our conversations all the time. Right. Elvis: And this works going into three shape and exocad. Danny Yao: we do have a three shaped library that does help with us create and then we have an exocad library. Elvis: That yeah, we do it in exocad. But I mean it's flaw. Danny Yao: Everybody's doing an exocad. Elvis: Yeah. This thing's drop in. I've never had an issue and that's. Danny Yao: The thing, that's what we're. Elvis: And I'm not even doing it right. Danny Yao: Well, I mean yeah, there's definitely ways to. And we've always just tried different ways to improve it. Right. But that's what I felt we've always had is I feel like we've always been able to think about and figure out some of these problems and ideas at a higher level than what a lot of other people out there are doing. and we come up with solutions that I feel like we're able to bring real value to the Russell Crockettetplace. And that's something that's really kind of kept me really, really engaged with, working together with Dr. Crockett. Because you. I do feel like us to having those conversations is something that's unique and special and hard to replicate. Elvis: Yeah. Russell Crockett: and between the design manufacturing, we can prototype things pretty quick. Danny Yao: Right. Elvis: That'sol. It's nice. Russell Crockett: And that's a sk. The Optis splin allows surgeons to align CT scans after surgery It's a skill that's been developed over the last few years. You know, he's improving constantly on sourcing things. Danny Yao: And then I. Russell Crockett: It's still improving on the cat aspect of it. Elvis: Y. Wow. Russell Crockett: So it's. Danny Yao: Yeah, we've come out with. I mean, we're recently. We also, changed our analog scan or mua scan caps. The ones that you use. Alignment. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: So we actually changed those to make them radio opaque. So instead of. And this is actually an idea that we thought about before, actually was one of the first. We thought the digital workflow was done this way. When we first released Optis, when we first were developing Optis splin, we didn't even know about fiducia Russell Crocketters. And so we thought we. We were talking to surgeons that we were like, hey, would it be okay if you guys took, an X ray or a CT scan after surgery and they'like. Like, no, we're not moving our patient from this. Russell Crockett: Yeah. Our original thought process was to use a cone beam. Danny Yao: Yep. Elvis: Oh, post op. Danny Yao: To align. Russell Crockett: Align to the. Elvis: That would have been a huge barrier to a lot of people. Russell Crockett: We found that out pretty quick. Danny Yao: They were like, no, we're not doing that. Russell Crockett: Right. Danny Yao: but like, more recently. And so we never really developed the idea. But more recently, Charles Bond out of Oregon, he was like, you know, I've been doing these. I. He started printing, like, rad, radiopaque material, like with barium sulfate. Elvis: Yah. Danny Yao: like healing caps that he would use with CT scans. And so what he was able to do was he was able to kind of get that Optis splin jig. And then he would scan. He would just do it. Instead of using a fiducia Russell Crocketter, he would just do a CT scan after the surgery, and then he would use those radiopic scan caps, to align to the Optis splin scans. Right. And he was like, this is the right way to do it. Because now if you really think about it, how much do. During surgery do you struggle with that lower scan? Elvis: Oh, a time. There's ye times where I've had to give, Up. Danny Yao: Right. And then how many times have you been to a surgery you don't get there early enough and the doctor's already halfway through surgery. And you didn't put the fiducial Russell Crocketter in Y. Right. Or the fiducial Russell Crocketter moved? Elvis: I haven't witnessed that, but yeah, I bet you it happens. Yeah. Danny Yao: So, yeah, those are all things that happen out there. And from his perspective, he's like, well, if they were radio oppaque and they were easy to align, I would never, ever, ever have to worry about those things ever again. And doesn't even have to scan. He loots the optislin together. There is no interal scanning whatsoever during surgery. Elvis: How? Danny Yao: Because you're using the bone to do the alignment of all the different pieces. Right. And then even to get the tissue, he just puts cotton rolls between the cheek and the tissue. Seems likeer CT scan after surgery. Well, it depends. Right. So he doesn a CT scan surgery and then he could dial up the. The. What is it? Elvis: Theain. Russell Crockett: The threshold. Danny Yao: The threshold so that you can actually see this tiss issue. So he gets a tissue from the CT scan also. Elvis: Interesting. Danny Yao: And so he does all of that and from his perspective, it's it. It makes it so the doctor does not have to do any int internal scanning whatsoever. There's no fiducial Russell Crocketter. So. So it makes the surgery a lot easier and a lot faster. Elvis: And you lose the intro orural inaccuracies of the hand movement. Danny Yao: Correct. Elvis: Interesting. Danny Yao: And then. So now you have a way. And now imagine like as we start to scale our company. Right. you know, there's doctors that are like, yeah, let's do it digitally. You know, I want to learn how to do it. Can you teach me how to use the fiducia Russell Crocketters? What scans. I need all that stuff. Right. That's what people were spending all that money going full archmaster stor learn. Elvis: Right. Yeah. Are you ever going to stop doing dentistry or do you think Ah. Danny Yao: But now with this radio opaque scan cap Charles Bond in his lab, he can literally say, doctor, surgeon doing full artch case. Do surgery like you always done. Don't change a thing. Elvis: Mmm. Danny Yao: Like I just need a. You're gonna put these scan caps in to suture around. I'm gonna come in, we're gonna do a CT scan of the patient. Once thr awake, I'm gonna loot the opti switch jig together and then I'm just gonna take off. That doctor never has to learn any digital workflow at all. And so that's where the next group of people that are doing these cases are Right. Like, they don't, they're happy with the guy coming in, converting their dentures. yeah, I, people, they don't want to change. Elvis: I don't want to do them. Danny Yao: And so, so if you can get those people now. Yeah, right now everybody can get into a digital workflow. And so that's why we made, that's why we really tried to prioritize in our first version of it. It's radio opaque. It's pretty good. M. My most recent one that we've been working on that we just started prototyping is now we've tried to make the material of that, scan cap a similar radio opacity to bone. Elvis: Oh. Danny Yao: And so he had to go through all this testing recently. Elvis: Can you just make him out of bone? That'd be fun, right? Russell Crockett: Yeah. Elvis: Start harvesting. Danny Yao: But that's an idea of stuff that, like, even right now we're still trying to find ways to improve on the system, make it better. Elvis: Sounds like you're having fun too. Sounds like you both kind of, you know, I mean, nerd out on it and enjoy it and. Danny Yao: Yeah, we're very different people. You'd think that we have a lot more conflict, but we love just like randomly talking to each other all the time. It's really, I love it. Elvis: You ever going to stop doing dentistry from this or do you think you'll always be a dentist? Russell Crockett: I think I'll always be a dentist, yeah. Yeah. I, I. Elvis: Because you could turn this into something. I, I mean, just huge, if it isn't already. Russell Crockett: Yeah, I mean, it depends on where things go. But, yeah, you know, going to school for so long and there's some passion there for. So maybe at some point all that passion will be gone after dealing with so many difficult pro patients. But, you know, we'll see what the future holdseah. But no, no plans at the moment. Danny Yao: To n. He's also working in one of the most. One of the premier prosthodontic offices in Temp Arizon with Dr. Russell Crockett Montana, you know, who's very, very well known across the country for all the, all the, all the speaking engagements that he does. So, you know, it's, it's, it's. But it's also nice for him to have that, you know, kind of daily. Russell Crockett: Yeah, I don't, I don't see myself ever. Right now. I'm in private practice two and a half, three days a week. Elvis: Yeah. Russell Crockett: And that s. That, yeah, that's it. Elvis: So I, Why would you give that up? Russell Crockett: I would Prefer not to do more. Elvis: Yeah. Okay. Russell Crockett: Just because clinical dentistry is very difficult. Elvis: Sure. Russell Crockett: Back breaking work. You know, the emotional aspect of, you know, speaking with patients, then you spend. Elvis: All your free time on cads. Russell Crockett: Fun stuff. yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's nice to have that break in the schedule. Elvis: So I love it. Russell Crockett: Yeah. Danny Yao: Yeah. Elvis: Ah, digital arches.com. is that it? Danny Yao: Digital arches.com. you can learn more about Opti Splint and Arch Tracer. There we are. Actually, right now one of our biggest pushes is to try to, work with us many dental labs and get them certified with our workflow as possible. Elvis: Oh, there's a certification we can get? Danny Yao: Yeah. So if you want to, you can get. Elvis: Give me one. Since I can't even do well. Danny Yao: That's part of this conversation. Right. And that's part of the conversation that we're having is that when you go on, you sign up on this get certified link on our website, we'll reach out to you and we'll set up a meeting. My, business development, director, Autumn Shoemaker and I are probably meeting with two to three dental labs every single day. Elvis: Wow. Danny Yao: that we're not traveling at least. Ye, you know, just trying to help them understand. Like in the beginning we were meeting with the dental labs that have been working with us for a long time. So they know the process, they know what it is. But we wanted to kind of get an idea of how it'working in their office. Right. Or in their dental labs. And what are they doing? Are they doing something differently? Because now as we start to meet dental labs that don't have as much experience or just kind of, figuring it out on their own, whatever it is, we can kind of give them some of these pearls that we've been learning from these other demo apps and how they're implementing it. Right, right. And so we're using kind of a lot of this, a lot of these meetings just to get as many people, as many dental labs as we can to learn how to do it digitally with Optislin. Our goal is to make a digital full large case as easy as possible Because our goal ultimately is to make a digital full large case as easy and as, you know, democratized as possible. Right. As many people can do it as as many clinicians can do it, as many more access for patients. We want a world where everything comes down in price a little bit so that's more accessible so that more people that don't have dentists don't have the ability to pay the 25,000, do $30,000. Yeah. can start to get it done more Right. And that's our mission. And so we want to try to teach as many dental lab with what we believe is the right way to do it. with a low cost device that doesn't require a huge investment upfnt. You know, to be able to learn how to do it this way. If they want to move to photogrammetry from there, go for it. Elvis: Why would they know? Danny Yao: I don't. We hope that they don't. Elvis: I mean, I don't understand why people do, but whatever. Danny Yao: But, you know, it'yeah. Teach their own. Right. But I mean, there is, there is part of it is like, because doctors don't understand all of the things that we just talked about. Elvis: Right. Danny Yao: how. What makes things accurate? Why is it accurate? All they think about is like, it has to be modelists and fully digital just needs the work for them. Yeah. For them it's like, oh, photogrammetry is sexier. Elvis: They do like their toys. Danny Yao: So that's the biggest problem that we run into is that the dental labs, they love our product. Elvis: Yeah. Danny Yao: But when they bring it to the doctor, the doctor's like, but that's not fully digital. Elvis: You know, I'm not run into that. I mean, they're all game for it. The ones that I've introduced to. I mean, an office introduced it to me originally. That's why I never learned you ski outside mo but yeah, I mean, I. Danny Yao: Wish you would have come to us earlier. Elvis: I didn't even know I needed to. That's the problem. It worked. If it didn't work, I'd be like, something's up. Danny Yao: So that's what we're doing right now is like, I want every lab out there that's interested in doing a full AR digital workflow to get certified by digital arches on how to do these full arch cases digitally. Everybody that goes through that certification process can get on our website. We are doing labs of the month. We are. Charles Bond has made some really excellent, educational webinars for us. We are making free to everybody that's getting certified with us. Elvis: I should probably watch it. Danny Yao: I hope you will. yeah. And everybody that does get certified automatically gets a discount on buying any o There you go. Our products. So we want to partner with labs as much as possible. That is our core or the coolest. I mean, we're cooler and that is our core Russell Crockettet. I mean, at the end of the day, I think we created a great product. But that product could not be successful unless we found the right Russell Crockettet for it. Right. And we did see A dip in sales for Optis Splin when it transitioned from all these clinicians being interested in it because there wasn't really a lot out there, too. Suddenly there's all this noise of all these other options out there. Elvis: Right. ye. Danny Yao: They're like, oh, well, we'd rather try the thing that's fully digital. And so we saw a dip, but then as start running back, we started focusing more on labs, and now we're seeing growth again. Elvis: We see the point of it. Danny Yao: Yeah, exactly. And so that's when we were like, well, this is our audience. This is our. These are our people. Elvis: That's why you're here at Calab. Exact lab day. Danny Yao: Exactly why we're talking to you. Elvis: Yes. I love it. We keep hearing a ways to do these cases without photogrammetry Gentlemen, we got to end cu. Yeah, I don't even really edit these things in your over an hour. Danny Yao: Well, I appreciate you. Elvis: Yeah. Dr. Crockett, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Russell Crockett: Thank you for having us. Elvis: Digitalarches.com digital everybody gets certified. Thanks a lot, gentlemen. Danny Yao: Thank you. Elvis: Appreciate it. Have a good one. Barbara: A, big thanks to Danny and Dr. Crockett. I'm really sorry I missed that conversation, but thank you for sitting down with Elvis at the Calab association meeting. I cannot believe that you. Yeah, I actually can believe that you talked to them for over an hour. That is one. Well, I think that is your favorite subject. I can talk about Poast and social media, which are big ones, too. Elvis: You weren't there to stop me. Danny Yao: I know. Elvis: I. Barbara: We keep hearing a ways to do these cases without photogrammetry and would love to talk to some people using it and explain why it's needed. But until then, we recommend everyone check out digitalarches.com to get a kit or to even get your lab certified to be the go to lab for the Optis splint cases. And we all know BJ's amazing, so Rose's right in it. Elvis: Yeah, Roe started a lot of this, and I actually, As soon as I get back that first week in April, we're getting certified. Danny Yao: Sweet. Elvis: Yeah. Barbara: Congratulations. All right, everybody, Barb and I are on day three of Voices from the Bench Elvis: All right, everybody, Barb and I are on day three. They tell me it feels like day five. We still got a little bit of time today, and we'ren toa keep recording, and we got tomorrow, and then we're out. Barbara: Yes. Elvis: So we will still talk to you next week. Have a good one. Barbara: Have a good one. Elvis: Bye. I don't even remember. Oh, 66. Good. Can you hear me? Barbara: Yep. Elvis: Can you read this? Yeah, I can make it bigger. Barbara: No. Elvis: Okay. Barbara: That's what she said. Elvis: the views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the HO or Voices from the Bench llc.