Hey, Voices of the Bench community, Jessica Love here, giving me a shout out from Utah. As many of you know, I am passionate about creating natural-looking, beautiful smiles, and I also believe in simplifying systems without compromising on aesthetics. I am honored to be part of Ivoclar's development team to bring you a new stain and glaze system with structure paste. IPSEmax CeramArt. With this system, you can create beautiful works of art with depth and color in as little as one firing. Join us as we continue to innovate, simplify, and create meaningful change, one smile at a time.
So Barb, it's confession time.
Oh boy, Elvis, what did you do now?
I actually snuck down to the exhibition halls this year at lab day.
Oh my god, you did not.
Oh, yes I did. I went to visit our friends at Follow Me Technology.
The HyperDent crew.
The very same. And let me tell you, HyperDent was everywhere. Every other booth I walked up to, someone was talking about milling strategies, templates, workflows. It was like a CAM takeover.
I love that, guys. Quietly taking over the world one tool path at a time.
Exactly. And their milling roadmap activity? Huge success.
Really, Elvis? I guess I'm really not surprised.
Yeah, a ton of people were doing the scavenger hunt. Bouncing between Axis, Imagine, DOF, Roland, collecting their stamps like responsible adults.
Responsible adults chasing an amazing scooter.
Oh yeah, the scooter. That thing was a hit too. I actually saw it zooming around the show more than once. Almost got hit by it.
Yeah, yeah, I know. so did I. Lots of near misses.
It's funny to me, you got this group of very serious, very smart CAM engineers talking toolpaths, validation protocols, microns, blah, blah, blah. And then they're ripping around lab day on a bright orange folding electric hyperdense scooter.
Yes, I know, but I really love that.
You know what? I do too. It's proof that you can be extremely technical and still not take yourself too seriously, which I think we know about.
Yes, of course. And honestly, what a fun group.
Agreed. Big shout out to the Follow Me team. They brought the brains and they brought the fun this year.
And apparently, the horsepower.
Electric horsepower. Nice. Welcome to Voices From the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info@voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 416 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
My name's Barbara. What up?
What's happening, Barb? Seems like I just saw you yesterday.
You did just see me.
I had a great time.
That was so cool.
Yeah, I had a chance to visit Tampa. Non-related to seeing you, but I took advantage of it to see you and I got to see the great night.
I just thought it was really cool hanging out on Clearwater Beach, which when you live in this area, and you live in such beautiful things, you don't go and check out Clearwater Beach. So it's cool going down there on Thursday night, right? So thank you for coming into town so I can go to Clearwater Beach.
Yeah, well, thank you for the weather, question mark. What's up, Barb? For 8 years, I've heard you talk about how great the weather is down there. And it was rainy, chilly. You kind of got screwed. Yeah.
I'm so sorry.
Next time, work on that, It was still good. Still, my feet hit the sand. So that was nice.
Oh, you did? You went on the beach? Because you went to the aquarium. So you didn't really have to worry about the weather at the aquarium.
No, and we didn't. And the time we were in the aquarium was probably when the weather was the best. And then in the afternoon is when all the rain came. But it's fine, you know?
Well, then you got to come back.
Yeah, of course. Just another reason to come back. Heck, absolutely. Absolutely. But I got to say about night, you got some good people there. I've been there a long time. Everyone seems pretty happy, vibing, friendly. I like it.
And they all wore their shirts for us.
I saw that. That was so nice.
My sister and my son and everybody that's, you know, everybody's related.
I know, this guy and his wife and his cousin and his brother and his sister.
Her daughter, her husband, yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty much textbook dental lab. Love it.
What is it? Like 3 different families make up that whole lab or something? Yes.
Three different generations, including mine. So yeah, it's pretty sweet. So I was happy to introduce you to everybody and everybody knows who you are and they were just super psyched you were there. So thank you.
It was fun. Yeah.
It was awesome that you guys were in town. So.
Yep. And even though just getting back from Tampa, I'm like, I'm still adjusting to the late night flight. In about a month, we're headed to Texas for the DLAT show, the Dental Lab Association of Texas, April 9th to the 11th. You know, there's very few good regional shows left in our industry.
Right.
Texas and Florida, I think, are about it.
True that. We'll be at both of them.
Oh, of course. But thanks to the amazing board of the DLAT, we're going to be recording all those amazing attendees that show up. So head over to DLAT.org to register.
And thank you to the board for bringing us out there. We're excited. Can't wait. Oh my gosh. And then about a month after that, we, you and I, start going back to Mallorca, Spain for the Exocad Insights meeting. I say that we were there two years ago and it is an experience like no other. Guys, if you're an Exocad fan or if you just want to learn more about it and be around a bunch of Exocad fans and experts and all over the world, people, it's the place to be. It's on the beautiful island off the coast of Spain, Mallorca, April 31st and May 1st. Go to exocad.com forward slash insights dash 2026. Is that right, Dash?
Yeah, you got it perfect. Yeah.
Thank God. and to see the schedule and register. And when you see the schedule, you're going to be like, oh my God, I got to go.
Oh, absolutely.
For those in the USA, it's not hard to get there and totally worth the flights and use our special code, VFTBPALMA15, and you guys get 15% off. So. Thank you to you guys. Thank you to XCAD for the support and amazing code. And I hope you guys join us.
And I'm just going to throw it out there. May 2nd is my birthday. So come celebrate it with me in Spain.
Oh, that's so great.
Yeah. You got to get a dinner, *****. So this week we're going to continue our conversations that we got while on the main stage in the Ivoclar ballroom. Again, a huge thanks to everyone at Ivoclar for giving us the space to capture these people in our industry that are doing amazing things. So first up is someone close to you, Barb, Rob Fletcher. Rob has a history of streamlining workflows at some pretty major labs. But one thing he can never improve enough is case entry from handwritten scripts.
Oh God, you can't even read it.
In the age of digital, we still get handwritten scripts. Now Rob, after a few frosties, he decided to start ACES. This add-on to your current LMS will allow you to scan an RX and... and have it scheduled automatically. It's about time, right?
Yeah.
This gets your cases into production faster, more accurately, and it never needs a day off.
Then we welcome back to the podcast. I have a car's own Don Bell. Don talks about how Ivoclar is looking to improve the workflow by partnering with companies that share their vision for providing excellent materials. So when wanting to offer a bar solution, there was only one obvious partner, guys, like really. And also joining the conversation is Andreas Klee from Pantera, which is how they pronounce it.
I know, I always say Pan-Thera.
I know. It was Pantera.
Yeah, I know. I do the whole conversation. It bothers me. Sorry.
Talks about his history in labs before ending up leading education. Together, they talk about how a lab can easily get a bar from Pantera along with a disc of Ivoclar's prime zirconia to take the full arch finish to the next level, all with a 5 millimeter of clearance, which I know it's amazing. And let's not forget about adding the new Ivaclar IPS Emacs Ceram Art to give it that final chef's kiss or Barbara's kiss, if you will.
Don't kiss your work, Barb.
I won't. I do, actually. I love it.
Do you real gross? Every restoration is a kiss from Barb. So join us as we chat with Rob Fletcher, Don Bell, and Andreas Klee. Hey, Voices from the Bench listeners, Elvis here. Ready to supercharge your digital dentistry skills? Then mark your calendar for Exocad Insights, taking place April 30th to May 1st, 2026, on the stunning island of Mallorca, Spain. We know it's stunning because Barb and I were at the last Insights, and it was amazing! Whether you're just starting your digital journey or looking to take your Exocad skills to the next level, Exocad Insights has it all. Now get this, we got keynotes from Global Pioneers, in-depth software lectures, hands-on demos, product showcases from top industry partners, and of course, voices from the bench. We're going to be there doing some on-site interviews. Plus, they're adding some more fun stuff to do too. They can count Barb and me in on the first Insights 5K morning run along the coast. That's right, a running race in another country. country on the coast on a nice island. A minute to win it. And we're not going to miss the legendary Exo Glam Night, which is sure to be the most epic party of the year. Tickets are going fast, so head over to exocad.com/insights-2026 to grab yours today. You can also find that link on this episode show notes. And here for a special treat just for our listeners, 15% off. That's 15% off with the code VFTBPALMA15 that's VFTBPALMA15 and we will see you in Spain. Hey listeners, have you ever wondered what the hell I'm doing when I'm not recording voices from the bench? Believe it or not, I actually have a regular job. I I'm a client rep for Derby Dental Laboratory. So I'm in the field all day, all the time. I'm either doing chair sides or I'm building relationships, and rarely am I in front of a computer. Well, now here's a fun fact for y'all. Dental labs grow by keeping their customers and doing more business with them. Now that's my job, keeping those doctors happy and keeping them coming back for more work. It would be virtually impossible to do that without iCortica. So how do you get visibility with your accounts? Are you exporting data vomit in the form of a spreadsheet that only gives you a small piece of the puzzle? In fact, using Excel makes me angry, and you don't want to make me angry. iCortica gives me everything I need. at home or right on my phone, even when I'm sitting in my car. I can see sales, remake rates, notes for my LMS, and it even tells me exactly what my risks and cross-sell opportunities are. I could even see if a doc just called to complain before I walk in the door. Because honestly, that is a door I might choose not to walk in. The key is I'm always prepared and never surprised. I honestly wouldn't be able to do or enjoy my job without it. So head over to icordica.com to schedule time with them today to learn more. icordica. Stop digging for data and start taking action to keep more customers and more revenue. That's I-C-O-R-T-I-C-A.com. Love you, Rob.
In today's dental labs, reliability isn't optional. It's essential. When your workflow depends on consistent results, the equipment that you choose makes all the difference in the world.
Well, that certainly explains why so many labs rely on Roland's DG-shaped milling solution. Roland has built a reputation as the true workhorse for dental labs, delivering precision, durability, and dependability performance day after day.
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And now, Roland is taking premium digital denture production even further with the new Elevate Denture solution.
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What I like about it is added compatibility that it builds on the strength of the DWX platform that labs already trust. Labs can expand their capabilities while using the same reliable milling technology that keeps their labs running every day.
So that's the Roland philosophy, everybody. Dependable technology designed to support your workflow, your productivity, and your long term lab success.
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Then visit RolandDental.com to learn more about the DWX milling solutions and the new Elevate denture solution. Come on guys, go. Let's do it.
I'm excited for it.
Me too.
Voices from the bench. The interview.
I'm going to try to drink around this microphone.
This coffee's killer.
All right, LMT Lab Day 2026. Ivaclar, the stage apparently this year.
We are on stage and it's pretty freaking sweet. You can't miss us.
I feel like I'm on Late Show with Jimmy Fallon or something. It's a big deal. No, you need a band. Where's the voices from the bench band?
Well, thank you, Ivaclar.
Yes, this is fancy. We are We're joined by Rob Fletcher. If everyone remembers, he came on a couple years ago, last year, at least two, maybe three.
We weren't here last year.
Yeah, it wasn't last year for sure, it was maybe two or three years ago.
Two or three years ago, and you were the lead manufacturing firm auto that brought it into night and changed the way, moved stuff around. Try to move Barb's bench and that's when you learn you don't.
No, she moved. Actually, she did, believe it or not.
She moved a few things on me, I must say.
And then as soon as you left, she moved it all back.
That's true as well. Yeah. So what's exciting is you got a whole new thing going on. I do.
Talk about it. How did this idea come up?
It's similar and it's different. And sometimes I'm worried about really telling the truth about how it came out. Okay, there's one that makes a lot of sense.
Is it a shower idea, Rob?
We're just wanting you. No, you don't want to hear the shower ideas. The truth of it is, okay, so I was managing Knight Dental, director of operations over there, and then I went to Bayshore Dental as the VP of Operations, and in both places I was looking for what things can I do to make this, you know, more efficient or, you know, less mistakes, right?
That's what he does. We were just talking...
Do you do that in your personal life?
Yeah, look at me.
I'm a project.
I mean, you go over there and you're like, Your drawer is a mess.
Forks in here, then spoons... People joke, but seriously learning about lemon manufacturing did change my life, because I think about things as far as like, what's the root cause? Like, I've got a 14-year-old son, and he knows me talking about root cause and asking yourself, okay, maybe that was the symptom of something, but why did that really happen, buddy? And it has helped me be a better parent, hopefully a better boyfriend. My lean experience is really deeply ingrained in me. It's not something I put on when I go to work. It's me. It's what I do. Yeah, I live it. Yeah, so when it came to doing certain things in both of the labs that I managed... Some things came pretty naturally, and I had complete control and ability to do some really cool things, and we talked about it a little bit last time I was on. One of the things that I always saw, and it always bothered me, was there's always a room where you have those data entry people or the bookers or whatever you call them to take your RXs and enter them into your LMS, your lab management system. And I grew up in the 70s, and I remember filling out these little standardized tests where it had circles with ABCD, and you had to use your #2 pencil and fill it all, and they would scan those things in, and I'm like, Why aren't we scanning our X's in? Why are we still doing this and paying a room full of people to manually hand type all this stuff in mass?
Were those labs still scanning in the RXs just to keep them on record?
We were, yeah.
So the scanning was already happening yet?
You bet, you bet.
That's crazy.
You bet.
I was just thinking about our lab. We scan them all in. Absolutely. Just to have that record.
You have to for five years, I think.
Yeah, you don't need to like... put it in a closet and keep them.
Right, but you have to get that data into your lab management system so it prints out your work tickets and does all your, so it's mandatory, it has to go in. And this is a lesson for probably a different audience, but in lean manufacturing, you identify things called value-added and non-value-added activities. So I am naturally programmed to walk around an environment and look for what's NVA and what's VA, value-added and NVA. And entering data into a computer is absolutely non-value-added. It's not, doctors never say, here, here's my, I want to pay you to read this RX and type it into your computer and click all these boxes and save all this stuff and move all this data around. What the value added that the doctors are looking for is, I want you to make this tooth.
I don't care how you do it.
All your paperwork and all the moving around you got to do, that's all, that's your choice, but I'm not paying for it. So that's what we identify is how do we look for non-value-added activity. and reduce it or eliminate it, and work on it that way. And I kept looking at this process that was bothering me the whole time. I even contacted several software engineers. I'd call them in and say, Listen, you need to automate this for me. You need to figure out a way where I can scan this somehow, like we did in the 70s with those stupid tests I used to take, and have it go into my LMS.
So what do you do? Have every doctor write their RX in a #2 pencil.
No, that got brought up.
You gotta be able to read their signature.
I mean, like... We're not going to talk bad about that.
We're not a checkbox anymore. You've got to color in the circle. If you don't color it ain't good enough, I'm not going to make your crown.
But they still don't do it. There's a checkbox there for zirconia.
You erase it and it's still marked.
But nonetheless, most labs are dealing with hundreds or thousands of RXs, so people have to process those papers into the digital world. So I'm thinking there has to be a way. So I'm trying to find these software engineers, these guys that can program that I don't know how to do, but I can identify by the way so I can come up with a solution and I'm trying to find a guy to do it. And man, they are not cheap to even start talking to you.
No doubt.
And the ones that I started messing around with weren't even coming close to the actual solution. So you used a few. I tried, and they were just not working. Depending on your definition of used, but I tried getting somebody to do it, but they weren't even close to solving the problem.
Software to read handwriting, that's can't be. It's tough.
Is it? Yeah. I mean, it's been around for a while.
I mean, there's other industries have to be using this.
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And that's what's kind of unique about dental, all industries really, but dental has its own niche space, right? So you're, especially language wise. I mean, when I came in and people were talking about the words like contact and occlusion, and it's not the top tooth, it's the upper tooth. It's not the front tooth, it's the anterior tooth. So there's all of these specialty things, but OCR, optical character recognition, optical character, that's nothing new. That's been around for a very long time. I don't know how long, but it's nothing new at all. The trick is like dialing it in to our specific niche industry, plus the fact that AI has just blown up with like just the accuracy and the abilities it's able to do, and it's growing by the minute. Man, I am not one of those conspiracy guys. I wasn't, I didn't run right out and like convert all my cash to cryptocurrency. I don't like.
My son might have.
I don't know. I mean, I'm not knocking that because that's a legit thing too. But you know, I don't really follow like, oh my gosh, but AI kind of has me freaked out with how good it's actually becoming and what it can actually do. So back to, you know, I was looking for an engineer to come in. This is, seven, eight years ago when I first started looking. You've been doing this for that long? No, I haven't been doing it that long. I wanted it that long. I wanted this that long. And I had no interest in starting this company. All I wanted to do was manage the lab.
He wanted to find it. Yeah.
And I couldn't find anybody to do it successfully. And even to do it unsuccessfully, they were charging so much money. It was just insane. And it was just bad. So last year, well, honestly, here's where the part that I get a little embarrassed. Wendy's fast food industry kind of- Oh, yeah, I remember this. I pull up because the chocolate Frosties are amazing, right?
I'm right there with you, Frosty.
I'm driving through that drive-thru and I'm getting ready to talk to that scratchy voice. And it was AI that took my order. And as I'm waiting to get between where AI just took my order and get my yummy chocolate Frosty, I'm thinking, imagine how many entry-level jobs that took wiped out, not just with Wendy's, but McDonald's and Burger King and everything.
How did you know it was AI? Was it obvious?
It was so good. Honestly, I understood every word. It was beautiful. It wasn't overdone. It wasn't underdone. It was absolutely spot on. It was clear and crazy. I mean, it wasn't robotic, but. You can just kind of tell, but it wasn't like Siri, a little better. I mean, they did a really, really good job, and I was so taken aback by it. I remember telling Barb, and I just couldn't stop thinking about it. Like, Wendy's just took my order with AI. Like, that's your go-to entry-level job when you're 15 years old, and I'm going to go work for fast food. They're going to put a voices from the bench microphone, voices from the bench microphone on my face. I'm going to take orders for Frosty's. Well, now all of those. I don't know what number of people that are no longer going to be needed in those.
You think of every drive-through at every corner, every.
Right, and it just really started impacting me both from like, you know, excited and good to, oh my gosh, I'm scared. Or now I feel sorry for, you know, like my kid's 14, so will he have the same opportunity to go out and get a job at Wendy's like I did when I was a kid and it didn't work there. So, it's changing the world it's absolutely gonna change the world. Yeah, we will adapt, so instead of the entry-level jobs being a fast food place, it's gonna be something else that becomes the entry-level job. Sure, yeah, so then I don't wanna get too philosophical.
Yeah, so then you went back for another frosty?
And two, two, or three.
And then it went ding. So how did you go from that to Aces?
After I left Bayshore, I was trying to figure out what direction I wanted to go in life. And I've always kind of looked at dental as unique because it's one of the few industries that I know of that once you get into dental, you don't get out. It's just like this mafia, right? I know. That's true. I know. And then, but I was thinking maybe I should go into another industry, but I've come to really have an enjoyment for, you know, the demo space. Got to meet you, Elvis. I know. What do you mean me? You know what everyone says. Exactly. You are the reason. But, you know, just even coming to Chicago. Don't blame me. Don't blame me. Oh, you know, just coming to Chicago and all the other events that you go to. We're good people. It is. I honestly legitimately did not want to leave.
Fun industry. We do cool things.
I didn't understand it the first couple of years, but now I'm like, OK, I'm out. Maybe.
How are your competitors and they're also your friends? Yeah. How are they competitors? But you give all your information.
About that. I was shocked when I found out how open this industry is. So, you know, then I started thinking, okay, maybe I want to consult in the dental space. And I think I've got the skills to do that. You ran some pretty big labs. Well, and my background in continuous improvement, lean manufacturing, yeah, that's my skill. I can go in and work on improving processes. And I really do love doing that. But I didn't I didn't feel like that was for me, and I have always thought about consulting, but I've always felt like I don't want to go in and work with a team temporarily and then make something look good and then leave.
I agree with that.
And it falls apart.
It would be hard to go in and say, You need to do this, and then nobody does it.
There you go.
We've all wasted everybody's time.
Yeah, exactly. And I don't want to just for my own mental. Yeah, right. So then I started after some things just started. A plan that started aligning in my life, and Wendy's and all this couple of other things, I just said, You know what? I think a common problem that all the labs I've seen have, and most labs kinda have to have, is that data entry portion, that case booking, taking that RX information, getting into your LMS and paying people to do it, which, by the way, my... Like pain point for that was usually that that's a high turnover for employee, department. You're rarely going to see a data entry person that says, I've been doing this for the last seven years. You're lucky to keep them for seven months. So you're always trying to rehire, retrain when all the difficulties that comes along with?
Plus, it's a huge slowing funnel in the lab.
I was just going to say, when they call in, you've got 200 cases that don't move.
So you're like handicapped. Gonna get these cases I've seen it in so many. We do so good, we got mills that take 100 bucks, but you can't get it. Honestly, you're touching on something in lean manufacturing we call line balancing. So you want to look at your everything in your lab to see where your bottleneck is, and there's tons of reading and stuff on bottlenecks. But what you definitely don't want to do is have a choke point in the beginning of your process. That's the worst.
We would have the model room come in and say, Can I grab the impressions?
Absolutely, while we're still entering the cases. Right, because they just want to get going and you're like, and okay, so we just hit on, the speed of doing it, right? Obviously, the cost of, when I kind of do the math on how much it would cost us to pay somebody to enter a case at, average of however, 17 bucks an hour, kind of say, or being able to do seventy-five cases a day. On average, it looks like it's around $2.50 just to pay your team per case.
Right, yes.
Yeah, I mean, just do the math. Actually, that's...
Don't we get zirconia cheaper than that?
Pretty much, yeah. So, but that's even on the easier side of things. On the more optimistic side, the more pessimistic side is if you really were to take your payroll and say, okay, in the month of whatever, my payroll cost for this team of data entry people, that includes over That includes calling in time. Think about the amount of days where, let's say you have the capacity to enter 500 cases, but you only got 300 in. You're paying that team anyway. So when you actually look from your payroll cost aspect, you're getting the true cost of how much it costs you to enter per case.
Interesting.
So it's not really, I call that backwards calculating versus forward. You can take $17 an hour and 75 cases per day. You know, what's the cost to do that? But I like to say, say, let's do our payroll cost and backwards kind of divide it instead of multiply it. You've got the speed, you've got the cost, and then you've got the quality. I mean, how many times have you, know, you've got a new person coming in? Those poor people do not know our language. How could they? And it's so hard to remember that they don't know our language. Oh, fixed partial denture.
I hear the word denture.
That's removable.
You're like, no, it's not a really bad way to say bridge.
Occlusal rest. A complete partial. Yeah. Dude, that is an oxymoron. Like you would not believe it. Nobody realizes that. Yeah, That is a good point. So you're talking to these poor people, and so the training aspect, they forget stuff or they go rogue on you, like, why would you do that? I just talked to you and you did it again. All that stuff is just a nightmare. So all the more reason to automate it. And honestly, that automation hasn't been my first go-to. I like to do things a little more. more manual, you're like manually moving stuff around a little bit, but this one is a clear need to automate this process. It's just a no-brainer. So last year I spent a lot of time looking for the right partner because I can't code. I'm not a software engineer, but I feel I know Dental at least good enough to get a, you know, make this product actually happen. So, a lot of the software engineers, they want to take on a project and charge you again and give you something crappy, but I did find a great partner, and he's got a team of five or six guys working with him right now, and we worked on putting all this infrastructure in place, dialing it in, making it happen. There's a lot of people in the space right now that have absolutely been able to get the digital RXs out and into their lab management.
Oh, for like an iOS game. Yeah, for iOS. That's one thing, it's already digital.
Where it's legible.
Seriously, yeah. Well, but it's tight. And so obviously that's a no-brainer. That's good that they did that. But also the paperwork is the... the physical RX that are handwritten is really the tough point. So OCR has been around for a long while. AI is developing and improving by the minute. So our system kind of marries those two together, where it's actually scanning and reading, and then AI will improve it. will give a confidence score on it. There's different screens in the UI that allow you to make your own rules. They're basically logic rules. So you can say, like, here's an easy no-brainer that we just hard-code into it anyway. But the logic statement would be like, if the patient name is blank, then automatically kick this over to manual review. Because you're not going to, nobody's going to continue booking a case in if there's no patient.
If you don't have a name.
Right.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Yeah. So the customer has that. Available to them, in case they want to dial it into their own needs, and we're there to help them do it if they need to, but it's a really dynamic system that allows them to just scan those RXs in. You can do it through your scanner printer if you want. That's how I originally envisioned it, but then I found out I could actually do it with my iPad, which is real quick. You just snap a picture and it up the sweat.
So you lay the RX down on like a table and.
Just stick it right.
We've been writing them all different kinds of functions. I'm signing my name and she's got beautiful.
Yeah, she's got like beautiful cursive writing. I've got the dude writing, you know, a really blocky printed, but so we. We tested it and started saying, okay, the one that's probably the least confident is the doctor's name, because there's an infinite amount of doctor's names. But of course, just like, what's nice about this is you train, we train this software, just like you're going to train a human. So the logic that you're going to train a human to say is, okay, if this doctor's name is kind of illegible, What practice did he come from? Well, what's the phone number? What's his?
I'd go off with their doctor number.
That's their license number or their phone number. Any other, we always verify. Exactly. So, we...
Our system does that.
So think of it like this. However, if you were to bring in your data entry person for the first day and you set them down and you say, okay, this is what you're going to do and here are the rules that you need to, you know, this is your work instruction. Those are already in ACES, which by the way, did we say ACES? I said it, I did. It's called ACES. ACES, give me the story behind it. Well, for some reason, I guess I kind of dig acronyms because it's Automated Case Entry Software.
I never even made that connection.
Automated case entry software, right?
That's because I'm the smart one.
You came up with that? No. Originally, it was going to be, I think it was Vera. Oh, it was Vera. Virtual entry resource. I was thinking, you know, Alexa, Siri kind of stuff. Yeah.
He does like Alexa.
Yeah, so did I just set off a piece of software here?
Alexa, turn on the kitchen button.
But then I started realizing that people aren't virtual entry resource agent. What does that mean? Automated case entry system. What we're really doing is we're automating your cases, your case entry system. Yeah, automated case. So it's ACES. Got a nice little spade ACES emblem there. And yeah, so really it's just about. Getting this information out of an RX, and we can do digital with the iTeros, and.
Does it matter what LMS they're using?
No, so every LMS that we've run across has an API that they're... I won't mention too many names right now, but they're more than willing to allow us to patch in, because actually we're an accessory.
You're independent, too.
Well, yeah, but we're not in competition. I was just talking to somebody at an LMS company. company just right before I came here. And we're not in competition. Now, a lot of these LMS companies do, like I said, pull in their iTeros and their IOS. But okay, so fine, your customers are going to do that. But if you're not doing the physical RXs, ours does, so we will pick up that side of it. It's not in competition with them. It's actually good for them. To help them. Right. And of course, the IOS companies don't mind.
Get a written RX in, take a picture of it. Yep, how quick is it in your system?
Bingo.
Yeah, my partner, he's the software nerdy guy, and he's... It says it's 100 milliseconds. So 100 cases per second is what it's capable of.
But I want it now.
Yeah, that's too slow, right? And he keeps nitpicking on me. I know, like as he's doing it, he's like, man, we can, I only have it dialed into 50 per second. Oh, I need to get it to 100. Like nobody, nobody knows.
So what do you, like as soon as you take a picture of it, instantly it's in your system and it just.
Prints out a work ticket.
And does it with every picture you take or does it batch it and then do it?
No, he wanted it. So that's my, experience with both lean manufacturing and dental labs. I don't want to do any batching because we know what happens if you batch. Somebody's going to cross some paperwork, right? So it's, I guess if you wanted to, you could do it batch, but that's not the way it's designed. So you take a picture, boom, right into the LMS. So yeah, when it transforms it into digital. And if it reads, you can set it to whatever threshold of a confidence score you want it to be. So every field in it has a confidence score on how well did it read it. So if it's like a digital one that it's reading, and it's going to give it a confidence score of 100% because it knows it's a digital one. If it's somebody writing a sloppy one and it kind of looks like a 7, it might give a 70% score. Interesting. So you'll check those. Yeah, and then it kicks it over to another screen. It does not automatically upload it into the... LMS, it says it's gonna go into manual review based on the fact that you.
Get a really big family feud kind of thing.
That's a good idea. I can write my car load. Can somebody... Jesus.
This is our Elvis X. Okay, so if a doctor writes... Fifteen paragraphs, because he wants a zirconia #3A2, but he has to write.
Absolutely.
It's a life story. This software is going to pick all that out.
Yep. The way I describe it is it reads it just as good as a person's going to read it. Now, if it's illegible by any form on Earth, human or otherwise, then it's going to manual review.
We've all been through this. You walk around the lab with an RX and say, do you know what this is? I don't know. You go somewhere else.
It looks like the horizon on the Gulf of Mexico. It's like just the little waves. It's just that just looks like a sunset on the Gulf. Yeah. So I mean, what's really nice is AI is so trainable. Like it's AI is going to become the best data entry booker that you've ever met because it just keeps learning and learning and learning. So you know, I was just I was showing a demo to a lab owner earlier and he. He filled out an RX and we took a picture and it scanned it, and it messed up his last name. Well, we're not really concerned about that because he also put his lab name and there's whatever, so it's cross-comparing. Last names are kind of the hardest ones because, yeah, 'cause they're right, but then if they write zirconia... And AI knows that there's no, that Z is not a Y, there's no Yurconia, it's zirconia. So AI is able to kind of think like a person would. Oh, and it really makes the sense and compensates for that. Absolutely, absolutely. And the more it learns, the smarter it gets. And it's never calls in, it never argues, it never gets hungover, it never finds another job that lets me work at home for twice the amount of money.
Consistency at its best.
Yeah. I'm very, very proud of it.
But what about proper names? If someone sends in, and God forbid, they ask for lava because they haven't gone outside in the last 20 years, but if they ask for lava, you know it's just a zirconia crown, because nobody does that anymore.
Wouldn't that be a rule?
Yes, okay, yeah, that's just like that, for.
Example, if someone uses the word bruxler, that's technically a proper...
I mean, I guess it depends on what lab you're talking to. And that's where, okay, let's say that happened like with Bruxer. And if your lab tends to take the rule that even though the doctor asked for a Bruxer, they just want my brand of zirconia. Okay, after you see that once or twice, or it happens too much, you go, okay, enough's enough. I'm just going to go in and write a rule. The rule, logic rule is, if you see Bruxer, then it is zirconia.
Okay, so you can customize that. And how easy is it?
That's why it's so good that he's been in the lab, because all of these. freezes he's attaching a rule to, so it's automatically already done. Instead of waiting for the lab to make the rule, he's already making the rules. Does that make sense? Did I say that correctly?
Yes, absolutely. Well, we can make the hard rules, like obviously, like I said, no patient name, no go, but your lab might have something that I don't know about, but I give you a screen where you can customize your own rules. It's just a drop-down menu, and it's so easy, I could show you how to do it. Now you'd have.
It's like an if and.
Yes.
There's a field box that says, and you hit that little drop down and it gives you a list of fields. So you can say if this field, which would be the material field, if it equals, and you can type in the word Bruxer, and then there's another drop down field, this is what I want you to do. Then you say I want you to turn it into a zirconia.
Do these labs have to use a special made RX?
No way.
No. Are you kidding? We've tried like three or four different ones, right?
Yeah.
I mean, and I've been his help and baby.
So what if you get an other lab's RX, which happens?
Yeah, we're looking for the keywords. So, you know.
It doesn't matter how or where it's written.
Absolutely not.
Interesting. Yeah, So the doctor's name doesn't always have to be in the upper leg.
No. As long as it says something like name or doctor's name or... We can program it to say an unlimited amount of.
What if he sends it on a post-it note?
It'll read the post-it note. I mean, I really haven't tried it.
We should call. We're gonna put you to work, Elvis. No, we've all seen the post-it notes. I'm dead.
You can tell he's dead on a post-it note, and you're like, This is not good.
You can't do this. Well, it's the texts that we definitely don't want. Hey, Barb, will you make me this? is my RX. No, you have to do that.
I get in trouble doing that too. Oops.
Yeah, so I mean, this has been something that I've wanted to achieve. And I was trying to figure out what direction I wanted to go. And OK, if I go consult, I don't want to have a random, OK, I'm just going to pick whatever project I see. But I know this one. Exists in so many dental labs, so I want to finally develop the solution I was looking for so long, and we've got it, and I'm really proud of it. One of the things though that I do, I'm trying to explain to people, I don't know if I'm explaining it right, but this is software, it's relatively new. I mean, obviously, what you're... Honestly, getting is an experienced lab leader combined with a team of software engineers that gets it, and we're going to work with your dental lab to give you the solution that you're looking for. And I'm very, very strict about what I accept. I don't accept any garbage when I'm managing a dental lab. You come in, you've got garbage performance, that's no good, we're going to fix it. You give me a garbage something, that's no good, we're going to fix it. I look at my product as this needs to be something that I would be very strict about accepting or not accepting as a dental lab leader. So I'm building it for myself a couple of years ago when I was looking for it and I'm working to that level.
Well stated.
That's awesome.
Yeah, so Sometimes, it can take some time. Different labs have different needs. Sure. It's not a one and done out-of-the-box. We don't build our system that labs have to conform to our system. We are going to conform our system to your lab's workflow. And that's one of the parts of the process is I come in and walk the process to make sure I understand what you're... What do you think the setup time is going to be?
Like if my lab says I want to get on board.
Yeah, right now we're working with a couple. It's generally a couple of months, I'm going to say. As time goes by, I think it'll get better and better. I'm out here now talking to a lot of the players in the industry, and they're interested in doing this. There's some people out there doing it right now, too, and it's not like it's impossible to do. So we're just another... And what's nice about our system that I really like is we charge by case.
Oh, okay.
Yeah. So it's not like you have to... Give me $50,000 and you just bought my software, or you don't have to.
Doesn't matter how busy or slow you are. Yeah, exactly what it is.
That's huge. Yeah, right. So, you know, in March, April, when we're flooded with work, our software will enter it super fast. There's no bottlenecks. And then when in July and August you slow down, you're not paying a team of people that are slow.
So everybody gets their hours no matter that's for sure.
Yeah, that's a huge benefit. So we've really dialed this in to be really for the lab to gain as much as they can possibly gain. And again, I'm looking at it like I'm the customer. I'm managing a dental lab. This is the product that I want. And especially when it comes to, okay, prove it to me. Well, I'm not going to say, give me $50,000 and I'll prove it to you. I'm going to say, I'm going to set this up. You know, Carlos and I, my partner and I will come in and we will get this dialed in. You can use ACES software, but you're not going to, you're going to give me a small chunk of change that's just a fraction of what you're currently paying your manual labor to do. You're just giving me a couple of dimes for each one of these cases that are entered, and you're not going to pay me until it's entered. And that's like a no risk. That's cool. We'll prove it to you. I'm so confident in it, and I'm very proud of this. And it's the only thing I'm worried about right now is A lot of people are interested. I like overwhelmingly number, honestly. So what I'm seeing right now is my risk is we might have a line to implement these.
But that's what's good about Rob. He won't say, oh, sure, I can service 100 of you. I'll do what I'm capable of and I'll wait until I grow to that point instead of promising the world. So that's a very smart.
And it's going to be right. I refuse. I will not. It's actually impossible for us to actually do it wrong because, I mean, once the case gets entered correctly, then you pay me. If it's entered incorrectly, you don't pay me. Or you don't even have to use us again. It's not a subscription base. It's basically, hey, I've got ACEs that I'm plugged into.
There's no contract, right?
I'm going to use it, or if I choose not to, I'm not. Right.
You're not tied in. Yeah. It's a little different than our industry, because usually we're all tied into a license or something.
Absolutely. Yeah. And I didn't want that. Again, building it for myself as a lateral. That's what I would have wanted. That's cool.
Awesome.
How the hell do people get a hold of you?
Yeah.
Just give me a call or text is the best way. My cell phone number is 727-482-6974. All right. You're putting it out there.
He's all over Facebook too. He's got a lot of interest from the videos. Social media. People are finding him from social media as well.
Yeah.
So that was, you know, for, you know. Yeah, I've had a lot of people.
Reach out to me because they've seen my stuff on Facebook. I did make a little page there too, just really not marketing this, but sharing lean manufacturing tips and techniques. I think I said that wrong, but can you fix that in editing my house? Tips and techniques that I've learned. over the years through my experience in lean manufacturing and how it applies to the dental world. And I think that's been helpful to some people and they're reaching out to me and contacting me that way through Facebook.
I think it's cool what you're doing.
Yes.
But more importantly, I think it's cool that someone from our industry is doing it.
Yeah.
Well, so thank you.
So many companies come in here, they say they can approve everything and they've never even been in a lab.
Yes, I really did. get a deep recognition and appreciation for you can't come in and fake it in this industry because it's too much of a unique language, too much of a unique process. And so that's my representation. I wish I could code. I would have done it myself, but I can't.
That's a whole other weird.
No, but my partner's great. I love you, Carlos. He and I have become pretty good friends and really good friends.
Awesome.
All right. Well, good luck. Thanks, guys. Yeah, thank you.
Love your stage?
Yeah, well, I love you. All right.
Whoa, it's recorded.
Yes.
See you. All right. Bye.
Close enough.
Can you hear me?
I can. Can you hear me? I can hear you. All good. All good.
I'm good. I can hear you. I can hear you. I can hear you.
Yeah. OK. Awesome. Super exciting at the Ivoclar Ballroom yet again. LMT Lab Day 2026. We have an exciting conversation here.
No doubt.
First of all, we got to welcome back. I think for the third, 4th.
Is it really?
It's like at least the third time, maybe the 4th.
Don Bell.
Don Bell. Mr. Ivoclar.
I'm glad to be back. Glad to be back. It feels like it's been a while.
It has been a while.
We should have given you a trophy. Most times.
Well, someone told me we need to have a five-member club where they get a jacket. And I said, if you want to buy the jackets, let's do it. Welcome back, Don. How are you?
I'm good.
Everything's been good. How's that lab day doing for you?
The meeting has been, honestly, it's been great. Yeah? So we're, I know not everyone can see what's happening, but our ballroom, I think, came out amazing this year. So we made a lot of changes to the setup. We have two called intimate learning centers for technicians and doctors to come in and learn and hear lectures. And the layout has opened up the room. I think it's very, welcoming to people to come in and see things, to take education courses, to interact. So it was much better than we ever thought it was going to come up.
And someone put us on stage and gave us the biggest logo I've ever seen of our logo.
So that was the side benefit is by opening up the middle wall, we have access to a stage which we can use as well. So this worked out amazing.
Yeah, and I will say... Every time they do a presentation, it's almost full.
Oh yeah, Jessica. Jessica loves on now and it's full house.
Yeah, so I think it's kudos to our team. We did a really good job by adding another stage. So there's two stages here. We've added obviously more education time slots and our team really worked hard to get great speakers and great presenters. So I think it adds, it's not just having them, it's having really good content. And that's been really exciting because you're right, the courses have been really flowing consistently. It's really a testament to the people presenting because we have great presenters, they have a great draw and a great value to the people that are here.
I'm doing the podcast, but I've got a straight shot to everything ceramics that I could love and think of, so it's been brilliant.
Sometimes I have to say, Barb, pay attention. Stop looking over there. But speaking of education, from one of our favorite companies, Panthera, I've always loved them. I mean, long before the podcast. I mean, amazing people. We love Beatrice and the whole team. Andre's.
Klee.
Klee.
That's right, yes.
Klee.
Klee, yes.
As easy as that. Yeah, it is, okay. It is, actually. It doesn't sound like it wouldn't be right now.
Trust me, he'll screw it up when this launches. Just kidding.
Andre, how are you?
I'm doing great, thanks. And it's really nice to be here. As I told you earlier, I follow you guys. And for me, it's an honor to be in the Ivy Club Ballroom with Don here today. with you guys here. It's really, really an honor.
Yeah.
Exciting. I think Don and I spoke earlier and just the whole collaboration. It's been awesome. Don's already talked about the ballroom. I mean, it's a phenomenal job you guys did. And for me, as an educator and coming here and being able to be part of the education program was exciting. to contribute to you guys, and yeah, it's been awesome.
What is your role at Pantera?
My role at Pantera is I started at Pantera 12 years ago as a sales rep.
Oh, really?
I didn't realize that. Yes, I started as a sales rep. My background is I'm a technician.
I love you.
But I worked my way up, and I think the company eventually realized that I was underutilized. So six months ago, we introduced the Pantera Academy. The Pantera Academy really is an education forum for technicians, dentists, anybody really that needs to learn about, as you know, at Pantera, we have three different divisions. We have the sleep, the prosthetic, and then we also have the implant, which is the subperiosteal. So I'm involved in all of those. So my role really is to educate doctors, labs, present them with new innovations, Like I did today.
Which I saw you speaking.
Exactly, yes. So this is really my role at the Academy. The Academy is multidisciplinary. It's also different formats. So we've started off just doing presentations. I do have a full recording studio in the Academy. So I'm working on educational videos, podcasts, for example. So any type of education we can bring to the community is really what we're working on.
What's in highest demand for education between those three? Sleep, implants.
It's difficult to say. I think prosthetic is the most complicated.
Really? I would have thought it was sleep.
Yes, but I think the prosthetic has so many different components to it, Andrew. The product line is so wide, right? Whereas the sleep really are just two appliances.
Okay, good point. That's a great point. Yeah.
So, and being on implants becomes a little more complicated. I mean, we have over 700 different implant platforms. Which one to use, and how do we do this, and which one are we compatible with? So, I think the prosthetic is more demand for information, although I am working right now on a video for sleep. So it's across the board, really.
So do you wake up at like 2 A.m. and say, I need to speak on this, or I need to make a video on this with 700 choices? I'll even choose it.
It's funny you say that because I'll be sitting watching TV at night. This is the problem when you work from home is you're never really away, right? And you go, just to your point, you go, yeah, that's a great idea. And then I go back and I write it down.
It's the ones you don't write down, then you're like, What was that? Of those 700 implant platforms, how many of them are really used?
Not all of them, but what the 700 platforms actually mean is we've done 7 cases with 700 different implant platforms.
So you've done them at least once.
At least once.
I bet you, how many are just ones and dones.
A lot of them.
That's crazy to me.
But that's the uniqueness of Pantera is we're able to retro-engineer. So for example, a case that nobody Nobody has components for, or nobody has compatibility for.
It happens.
We're able to go back and just with a few little components, we can retro engineer everything and make it part of the compatibility list.
Do you ever do that with retro or legacy implants they don't make parts for?
Absolutely.
Cyberon and all these weird things.
Absolutely, yeah.
Wow. Pulling that from Cyberon.
Wow.
That's fascinating.
Yes.
So what's the connection here now?
I was going to say, pull in Ivaclar.
Yeah, really good question. So I'll step back a little bit about our strategy. In recent years, we, as a materials company, we expanded and started to take on and try to develop more equipment and scanning and other types of technologies and create an Ivaclar workflow. And I think as we got into it, we realized, hey, look, we're never going to be the best in every category. We're not going to develop the best scanner or design software or pick a topic. What are we really good at some point? You have to get down to what are you really good at. We're good at materials. And I'd say adjacent equipment. Like a mill, I think we have very solid mills that produce and mill our restorations really well. Furnaces, we've always been very consistent, and on the clinical side, it's like curing technology and furnaces for an office production. And we've kind of dialed it down into these are the core materials and equipment, and then where that leaves is gaps. So then we get into conversations of labs work and workflows, like dentists work and workflows as well. And as you're going through a restorative workflow, it's... We get questions, our reps get questions of, you have a great mill, you have great materials, we're doing a larger case, we want to do, we need bar applications, what do you offer, what's in your system for milling strategies, materials, et cetera. And this became a challenge for us because we kind of skinnied down what we were offering. And what we wanted to do is say, okay, we're good at materials, who's really good in other areas? And fortunately, we have been working with Pantera on a concept with utilizing the fusion bar for a little bit of time.
Oh yeah.
And got the technology to work, got the cam and the design components to work. That was some of it was our issue on the cam side. And once we got it dialed in, it was, this is a great solution. They make really state-of-the-art products, high end, high quality. It fits what we're trying to do as a brand, put together. It's a really great solution for a full arch on bar restorations and implants, and it looks great, and it's a very predictable process that we work with them on. So, you know, a lab can get a great product, high quality. really beautiful aesthetics from 2 really good companies that collaborated together to work together. And as we mentioned, that's really kind of the fit too. It's not just having a partner. You want to have a partner that can not only just make a bar, but it's the quality of what they do, how they work together, how detailed they can be. Well, that's an obvious choice. Yeah, it's a great fit. But you know, it's really been a great partnership. And as we work together over the last, especially the last six to nine months, I think we realized There were so many things about working with Pantera that were very buttoned up, how they worked together, the strategy of how to go to market, how they want to educate and train. And it allowed us to kind of, all right, let's follow that. So let's make sure our reps are trained. We had them hosted them at our sales meeting. We got all of our salespeople involved with the concept of what we were doing. We set up post-sales meeting training that you guys did a phenomenal job on for all of our reps leading into Chicago. And then we did a walkthrough here on Thursday with the sales teams and the product presentations and you get everybody on board. So it wasn't just having a good product, it was, it's a great solution and a great fit of the companies, but it's also how we're able to roll it out working with them.
So can you explain the workflow for me if I'm allowed?
Let's start off with a fusion bar.
I don't know if everybody knows.
So the fusion bar is a really neat concept. So for those that know, when you do a full arch restoration in Zirconia, there are challenges. You're always challenged with space. So space is a big issue and you need certain dimensional, you have dimensional limitations in how thin you can go with zirconia.
Oh sure, yeah.
And so the fusion bar is really a combination of an implant bar together with a cemented... zirconia on top of the fusion bar. So it's really a bar supporting the zirconia. So as Don said, we're really good at the milling of the bar. And Ivaclaw obviously has top end zirconia. So the collaboration between the two companies was almost a given, right? We have the same ethics, we have the same quality standards. So the fusion bar is a product that benefits both companies. And it's a solution that pretty much everybody can use. So it's in essence, it's a bar supporting a zirconia. Wow.
How is it, I mean, other than the quality, how's it different than every other bar under zirconia?
It's the design of the bar. So the way that we design the bar, we have certain design features that are unique to Pantera. We have the bar design is a 10 degree chamfer on the labial. which gives us a really exact positioning of the zirconia. So if you imagine, I've done my... So it's not bulky? It's not so much the bulkiness, that is one thing, but it's more about the positioning of the overlay on the bar. if I've done my temp and I've done my bite occlusion and I've got everything dialed in, if I have any little micro movement and that cementation, I've lost all that occlusion that I've done ahead of time. So the fact that you design the bar in a certain way, it guarantees that it's going to seed properly. There's no lateral movement. So I establish everything that I've established initially is going to be replicated in the final restoration.
Because generally when you design that bar and you do this cement gap, that's The overlay of zirconia can move a little bit.
Exactly. So that's the unique part is the cement gap doesn't go all the way down to the peripheral edge. There's A 10 degree chamfer and it stops at the chamfer. So for those, to explain it a little bit more simplified, is it's almost like a telescopic crown as it fits down onto the bar and it pretty much seats it in. So the cement gap is stopped at the junction where the 10 degree chamfer starts. And the cement gap is really controlled on the bar, not in the zirconia. So we control that part of it. So the customer, when they mill their zirconia, they don't have to take care of any of that. It's all done already. Yeah.
So it makes it more precise.
Exactly. Yeah. And that's what we're really striving for, is a precision fit at the end of the day. Hygiene, aesthetics is obviously front and foremost, right? And that's why we've designed it in a certain way.
Wow. All right, so how does it work flow in with Ivoclar?
So this is going to be a very simple non-technician or dentist explanation.
That's actually a good way to explain it, though.
I'm just prefacing that.
Yeah, we got, you know, I'm trying to visualize it, how the workflow works between the two companies.
Pantera has access to our disks, our prime disks. And we have, let's say, Don Bell Laboratory has got a case from a dentist they're working with, full arch case supported by a bar. So they can contact either through our rep or through the Pantera rep, contact, the laboratory can contact us directly or go through Pantera. And they extended the design of the restoration in the full arch. The lab is actually, Pantera as a milling center is able to be able to take the file, split the file, and mill out, produce the bar. And they can also, they have options. So we've made it so the lab has some flexibility. So if they really like Prime, Pantera can actually mill out the restoration together with the bar and send the entire prosthesis back together. Or if the lab has a preference of maybe they have a material they already use, zirconia they like or another material, they can actually send the file back with the bar. So the lab has some flexibility to pick. Yes. or you mill the restoration that goes on top. So the file is already integrated. So whatever you do at that point, you've got control over the final result is going to be a very good one. And it's really, it becomes choice. And then they also have the ability, if you, let's say, Don Bell Laboratory says, hey, look, I know I need a bar case. And there's a conversation about what zirconia to use. And the lab's open to the idea of, hey, why don't we, can send you a disk and you can actually try and use it. Then they'll send them a disk with the file or with the bar as well from Pantera.
You said the prime disk.
Yeah, so we tried to create, and this was a really good idea they had about creating flexibility for the lab, so... For us, they interact with labs on cases like this all the time with bars. So it's like, let's give the lab flexibility to do what they want. So they can either get just the file back, they can get the disk to be able to use how they want it and mill it themselves and see how the results are, or maybe compare it to what they're already using. Or they can get back the full restoration completed.
But either way, you are designing the whole case.
Correct. Correct. Yes.
So you have.
We have full control of it. And as Don says, it's the flexibility that we give in the labs. If they choose, if they have a mill, and they say, you know what, I don't need Pantera to mill my zirconia, we'll send them the STL file with a disk if they want, and then they have full control, or they can mill it in PMMA, or they print it in whatever they want, right?
Interesting. Wasn't.
Beatrice telling us about this at the DTG event.
She talked about it a long time ago. It's like a teaser.
Yeah, I remember that now.
That's Beatrice. Yeah.
She loves sharing the info. So what's the turnaround time for a bar and getting the file back?
This is the beauty of it is. Time is always an essence. Of course. In a lab.
We need it yesterday.
Exactly. So from the time we receive the case, and that's the other nice thing is we have different types of workflows. So we have an analog workflow where the customer sends in a model together with the... People still do that? We have a few.
Some do, actually, yeah.
It's crazy, but they do. But the industry's moved. I mean, obviously it's moved into the digital realm. They would send us all the files. What we do once we get the files, we split them within forty-eight hours. The lab already has the STL of the overlay, so within forty-eight hours, they're now able to start working on the overlay while we mill the bar.
Wow, interesting.
Wow, so we're taking that production time away. And it normally the overlay is done and completed way before we get the buy to them. So Adam, at the end of it is they're going to get the buy back and they're going to cement the two together and it's done.
Nice.
So answer to your question, the whole case ran about 7 working days.
Oh, that's it. Yeah, that's not bad. For a full arch.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Are you guys like 24 hours?
But people are sending you photogrammetry and all that. You guys handle all of that?
Absolutely. We started off, I mean, as you know, with the digital world, there are so many different systems out there. But at this point, we are compatible with pretty much all the grammetry systems and all the photogrammetry systems. So it really gives a huge spectrum and a wide range of opportunities for.
But doesn't it? Because I do a lot of full arch scanning, but depending on what screw you can use and the data you come in, how do you handle that? If so many people are just throwing files at you, you got to make sure you have the right one for the right screw.
Exactly. Yeah. So we do mill our own screws.
Oh, really?
Yes. So what, as I said to you earlier with the compatibility that we have, We have all the screws for that as well.
So that eliminates that problem.
Yeah, make your own damn screws. Yeah.
I don't think we ever realized that, you guys.
I mean, that really, that really streamlines everything. Yeah. And then with Ivaclar, you provide them the pucks and they come directly from them.
Yes, they can. So again, we go back to.
It doesn't matter what mill.
No, it doesn't matter what mill. So again, we tried to create the idea of stepping back from this a little bit was This is a pretty prevalent case, like I want to do a full arch case on a really high-quality bar that's going to fit and have great accuracy and is a high-quality product. So we want to make sure we provide options for the lab to do it. So we felt like that made the most sense. We had discussions with Pantera about that. So they have access to our inventory. And then we work together with them. if we send you a case and you get a disk, we can follow up with you, make sure that we're aware of that you got the disk, you may be milling it yourself, or you might be milling it for another case. Like there's things that you may want to just try the material because you don't use it today. But it gives us some ability to make sure that we're engaged and we can follow up with you. Yeah, because we've got to calibrate things for this sort of course. I mean, and I think we all realize that you get, you know, the labs have workflows and processes for whatever product they're currently using, so it's not always going to be an automatic switch. We don't expect that. But I think it's just an opportunity to get a product into somebody's hands to try the material. We follow up on it to make sure, like, what are you using it for? Is it part of this case or not? And if they did, if they do the full restoration, it's a beautiful, I mean, it's amazing. They were, you guys were very generous and made samples for our sales teams and they're spectacular samples with our bar and the final product's great. So it's another way to follow up to make sure that you're happy with it. You're happy with it, your doctor's happy with it, there's no complications, and it's a good experience.
And do you go in and make sure that the labs are calibrated and that their systems are in place, like the centering times to make sure that it fits?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
If there are millions in their own cases, besides having Pantera do it.
Because if it doesn't fit, we're blaming you.
We always get blamed. That's what we do.
That's a fair question. I will say our technical team is very strong and generally speaking have a lot of lab background. Some of them are CDTs, some of them have owned labs. Like it's so we're fortunate we have a really highly experienced team and they can talk that talk because they've been in it. They know what to look for. They'll make sure and ensure, hey, let's make sure what are you firing in, what type of furnace is it calibrated? Because we know that all factors in. That's going to affect the final result. So we have a strong team to be able to do that. And our inside team is the same. If somebody were to call up randomly is having trouble with shade or with fit, even our internal team, we're all technicians. So they're handling that. They know what's going on. They know what can go wrong, and they know where to go first. So I think that's one of the biggest benefits of our team in the field and inside is that there's so much experience around labs. that they can help and assist that laboratory.
Does ceram art work on zirconia?
Works on everything. So all ceramic materials. So we're.
It works on Emax and zirconia the same. Is that new?
Is that like, are there other things that work on both? I thought I had it separate.
In general, yes. I'm not a ceramic. I think from a general statement or general comment, we've had materials, we had glazes and characterization materials. And I think we've come up with something that's, we think it's unique and I think it raises the level of all the materials you put it on. That's one of the benefits to it. So whether you're doing lithium disilicate or zirconium or a metal ceramic case, you can make, you can elevate quite a bit of everything that you're doing. And the pink material works specifically well for on. full arch cases because you can really create through a wide range of colors.
How many colors are there? I saw this.
There's 50 total.
That's a lot of color. So it's a lot. I saw that. I was like, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
It gives you a lot of flexibility to do what you need to do. You can mix and match colors as well. But the biggest thing we've heard, and feel free to comment on this, is what you see and what you put on is what you're going to get. So the materials aren't running, they stay. Yeah, and they don't change. And that was one of the first things I heard from people when we were going through the development phase. And that's a huge issue because you don't want to have to figure out what the final shade is going to look like. So having predictability, it's predictability and it's speed because you know what you're going to get. So yeah.
I can actually back Don up there is I was very fortunate to spend some time in Amherst at Ivoclar. With the whole collaboration taking place, I haven't done ceramics since 2005, and I spent two days with them, and I tell you, it was so simple to use.
Nice.
Really, and as Don said, it's really what you put on is what you get out. It's as simple as that. It is really, really, it's a beautiful product. I've been doing two days of hands-on downstairs. As I said, I haven't done ceramics since 2005.
You never lose it.
You never lose it, but the material itself is so user-friendly. even I can do it.
You're downstairs doing hands-on and you haven't done it in 20 years.
No, that's what I'm saying. It really speaks to the product is, you know, in that anybody that's done ceramics before, I think it's possible. You know, that's how user-friendly the product is. Mind you, I did have a great training at Ivadon, so that added to it as well. But yeah, it's a great product.
And comment to the development, because it wasn't like we came up with the idea exclusively. I think the concept was we knew where we wanted to get to, and we go through step approaches of we bring in clinicians or technicians from all over the world. So it's not just North American market, it's... all around the globe that are involved with the development. And we had iterations of this. So the first one was good, but was not finished, clearly. And that was made very clear. So that was step one. But I think what you find now is the feedback we've been getting is very positive because they love the glaze, the structure pace, and all of it with it because we probably accounted for 90% of the concerns or development questions that came up. So It took a while, but so much great feedback from technicians that it was amazing to get that and be able to incorporate it and then see the benefit. And now when people handle it, they love it. And it's worth the time.
No one's going to explain about color options. 50s seems like a lot.
So in the process we follow. it may have taken a while, we did the same for our new Zirconia that'll be out later this year, and it's again we went through iterations, so what's this new Zirconia you're talking about? It's Emac Zirconia, so it'll launch in May, Emac Zirconia, so we're modifying the name a bit. We're really excited about it. really addresses the strength of Prime. in a four or five wide material that can be used all over the mouth. But you can do a veneer, you can do a crown, you can do a bridge, you can do a full arch. And the aesthetics is very nice.
That's one thing that I've noticed at the bench is that doctors are asking for more zirconia veneers than I've ever seen before. And I always like knock myself in the head because they're not as pretty, but it sounds like you guys have a solution for that.
If it was a box is what this is. Yeah, we feel pretty good about what you can do with it. and how aesthetic the restorations look coming out. So, but we went through the similar process. Yeah, so we went through the same process. So we had technicians from all over the world and there were iteration. We were planning initially to launch last year and had to make changes based on feedback. So customer feedback is, you know, we really value that. So every time we see product and we're like, you guys did a great job, it's like, wow, you guys really did a good job. You told us what you needed and we did it. was not really magic in that regard. We try to listen well. Incorporate what you guys want.
Are you eventually gonna send the bar, a puck, and some ceram art? You don't even need to order anything here at all, just do it.
That might be the next step, I think.
Yeah, so as we just started here, we're really officially launching the partnership here. Both parties are really open to, Hey, we know things are gonna change. We're gonna learn pretty quick on what works and what we can improve and what people ask for. Like, if labs ask for things... And through Pantera as a package, we'll probably do it. Because at the end of the day, if it makes sense for you guys to do it as a laboratory owner or laboratory technician, we want to support it. So I think that'll be the direction. So who knows? I don't want to...
You mentioned space.
Yes.
I remember talking to Beatrice about the fusion bar space. Five millimeter.
Five millimeter. So we have...
That's insane.
We have two different designs. We have the FP1 design. And then we have the FP3 design.
Yep.
So the FP1, we can go as low as 5 millimeters.
That's nice and crazy.
And the FP3, it's 80 millimeters or just above. Yep. Yeah, for the FP1, it's 5 millimeters.
That's crazy. Wow. I remember you saying that.
Yes.
It's like, how much is normal.
Well, here's the issue.
Or what's ideal?
For years, everyone said you need 15 millimeters of clearance. And for years we've been just hacking the bone down to get that space. And even now, not even using fusion, you have to convince these surgeons and doctors that you don't need to do that anymore. Wow. Let's get it down to 8, 9. Yeah. But now 5, that's more than what you have after.
Oh, absolutely. So what that really does is it takes away the necessity for bone reduction.
Yeah.
Because once you've done bone...
Which is a crazy concept to begin with.
But once you've done bone reduction, you're done, right? I mean, there's no going back. No. So by making a low profile bar, like the FP1 design fusion bar, we're able to eliminate that whole bone reduction.
It's so huge. The problem is we've got to change the mindset process.
And I think that's a really very, very good point. So as we've kind of gotten in this partnership too, what you realize is that there's some education involved with further upstream to make sure that, hey, this can be done, there's data to support it, there are clinical studies to support it, that you don't need to remove that much bone because I think it's significant. Yes, educate. I think there's some really good opportunities for us to be able to help educate. So it's less invasive at the end of the day. I mean, the procedure's a lot anyway, but if you can reduce the amount of bone reduction, that's significant.
It's like the whole reason you do it is to teeth and to save bone, and the first thing we do is get rid of it. It doesn't make sense.
And I think I would imagine, just like a lot of things in dentistry, I mean, with us, with Ivaclar now, going on 26 years. So you see, and you guys have been in the industry as well for a long time, you've seen changes on material developments, how well they perform. So go back in time, 20 years, that was probably needed. You needed to have the space because of the mechanical properties of whatever you're using, et cetera. Now the situation's different, which means you don't need as much space. So I think that's really the benefit of advancing the technology too.
I say thank you and the patience and yeah, it's amazing.
But you know, and just to Don's point earlier, I mean, I think that's why we make such a good, we have such a good collaboration is everything we do comes from the industry. we listen to the industry, they have certain demands, and we react, right? And that's why I think your philosophy and your, the whole way, the whole of the Ivoclar makeup and their thinking is exactly the same as Ivoclar. That's made this collaboration such a great collaboration.
It's a good fit. It's a really, no pun intended, but it is a really good fit. It is a part of that high five. But it is really a good fit because I think our philosophies are similar, how we work the quality of what we try to produce. We want to service the laboratory with flexibility to do as much as we can. And I mean, it's not always, everything's not always perfect, but I think those are the intentions. And when you work that way, I think it really should.
The only issue I see is you're going to really have to up your game on the box the zirconia comes in. I don't know if you've witnessed a panther or a box.
No, I know.
And it was like jewelry for the Royals.
So I'll give you a maybe a funny side story because you'll appreciate this since you brought it up. And I didn't bring it up just so if there's anyone from Ivaclar listening, I did not bring this up. I was in a production facility in New Jersey. We produced a lot of our zirconia in Somerset, New Jersey for discs and blocks. And it's really to help service the North American market. So there's no disruption in supply chain. You guys get stuff whenever you need it.
Nice.
And we were going to the facility and they were showing us how it works and what's going on. It got to the packaging and I didn't say anything. I was just going through the tour and the production, the head of production was like, this packaging's really difficult for us to handle, to put it because they have to assemble it.
Oh, the boxing.
The boxing. The boxing. Basically he said the boxing's terrible in every way that you can imagine from the person assembling it to inserting it and everything else. And I was like, oh my God. And I always thought, I didn't like it just because I didn't like it. So now there's more tangible reason. It's carpool tunnel, it's end user, there's way more to it. I just didn't like some of it because of the way it looked. I didn't like the aesthetic. To your point, I think we're like, Okay, we're gonna look at that, because we hadn't seen their box yet, which is a whole 'nother story, a whole 'nother level, but it's, yeah, this just happened in early February, and I'm like, Oh my God, that's a mess. We gotta fix it, because the operators were having a hard time. It was time and it was time and steps, and they're wasting time. And the example he gave is, let me give you a reference point. This person is going really fast because she was really good. She's on the line working every day. But he goes, I tried to do it. took me five tries to get the box right. So you can imagine, it's just wasted time.
Just a box.
Like you would never have, that would never happen in your lab. You'd never have anybody doing that. It's like we got to fix that to make it easier and then hopefully we can.
Lean manufacturing at its best.
Yes.
So just because we're not going to have a lot of people from Panther, what else is Panther doing? Anything exciting that you guys are launching here this weekend?
No, I mean, this in Chicago. No, I mean, this was the big thing for us, the collaboration between Pantera and Ivoclar. It was a big thing for us. I think I can speak for both of our companies. It was a long time coming, and I think it's going to be great for both companies. Product-wise, we don't have anything in the plans right now. We are working on a few things, but we'll talk about that at another time.
We'll wait for Beatrice to come running up to me with a model. Yes. And she's going to say.
She'll tell us.
This comes out in six years.
That's how do you be an innovator? Bingo.
But no new magnets or anything? No. I'm always fascinated with what you all do.
I think the Fusion Bar really blew it out the water. Yes. And I think we're going to run with that for a while.
Five millimeters.
There are going to be some other things coming as far as the design of the Fusion Bar goes, but The concept itself is there now. It's small little minor tweaks here and there, but no major, no major.
But that 5 millimeters only works when you have the right zirconia on it, right?
100%. Absolutely. Yes.
Yeah. Love it.
Well, thank you.
Thank you so much. It was wonderful. Thank you. Thank you very much.
I'm excited for this. Yeah.
Thanks. You too.
Yeah. Have a good one.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, a huge thanks to Rob, Don, and Andreas for joining us in the Ivoclar Ballroom at Lab Day Chicago. I have known Rob for a long time, and I cannot sincerely emphasize enough his ability to understand lab production, and... find ways to improve it. ACES is sure to be a great way to get work started faster, less expensive, and accurately. So head over to acessolution.net to learn more. And what else can we say about Ivoclar and Pantera partnering up? It's like your two best friends finally getting married and doing amazing things. Wow, getting married. Wow, we're going there, how are we, Elvis? But if you're doing bars, simply reach out to either company to get started and do yourself a favor and try some of the 50 colors in the IPS E-Max Ceram Art Kit. I personally just got the kit. I know you saw it at least when you came to visit me and I'm loving it and look forward to providing the best to my patients.
All right, everybody. That's all we got for you.
And of course, we'll go up to you next time.
See you. Bye.
What I like about it is that it's... What I like about it is... The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.