Hello. Voices of the bench community. My name is Tanya Little and I'm a dentist from beautiful Vancouver, Canada. I would like to invite you to a special webinar that I'm hosting with Volker and LMT on Wednesday, May 7th, titled thoughts from Adventurist Creating Dentures with Eclat for 20 years. In this program, I will review the incredible history of renewables with Eclat and focus on the new and exciting evolution based print resin and of course, the PM seven. My goal is to provide you with several key takeaways that will allow you to work smarter and not harder. You can join me on May 7th by registering at LMT. That's LMT mag webinars and look for my course. I'm really looking forward to it. Welcome to voices from the bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email at info. Voices from the bench and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 369 of voices from the bench. My name is Alvin and my name is 69. Barbara. Barbara. Barbara. Come on, let's keep it clean. Let's not start so dirty. Yeah, it's Saturday morning. Easter weekend. So I am a happy girl. It's my face. There you go. How are you? I am sitting in a very rainy Indiana on a Saturday. The last two days have been absolutely beautiful. I was working no run Saturday. Ready to run. Raining. Welcome to my life. Yeah, we know. I said the one thing I'm doing today is running. And then I'm doing Easter baskets and making breakfast. Getting everything ready for tomorrow. Love it. I'm happy. So we again have a longer ish episode because putting together all the Chicago recordings kind of made episodes a little long, so we're going to jump right into it if nobody minds. Let's do it. Awesome. So this week we are back to the Colab Association meeting that happens that same week of Lab Day Chicago. Now, before we get into who we're talking to, let's congratulate our very own Barb for being the new chair of this amazing organization, Right Relations. Thank you. Not only am I the incoming chair, which is a very, very big responsibility. No stress there. None. None whatsoever. But it's our 100 year anniversary. Is it really 100 years? So, like that's huge. I have a class celebrating, you know, 20 years of Emacs. We're celebrating 100 years of Colab. So it's going to be a big deal. I'm putting together a committee to figure out how to celebrate it. What to do? Super super excited. That is exciting. I mean, you got to go all out for 100. Exactly. That's a century. I mean, there's no half in this. Oh, yeah. I mean, we want to be all over social media, and we want to have special things we're doing throughout the two days. And, like, I want to do a champagne toast. I shouldn't tell all. But. Yeah, it's. It's going to be exciting. Yeah. So how long have you been on the board of the Co-lab? It's been a while. I haven't, I think I even when I met you, you were already on the board. I would say close to ten years. Yeah, that sounds about right. It's a board you don't get off of. And I'm being sincere. Yeah. You don't like revolve and then go away when you're on that board. It's a lifetime commitment, which I was happy about. So. So. Yeah. So even after I'm a chair, then I'll just be still on the board. Unless I elect to be on my way and retire. Yeah, that won't happen. We don't want to talk about that yet. It's way too early for that. Way too early. But you are the first female chair of this organization, right? Yeah. No pressure. Yeah. And let's not talk about how it took them a hundred years. But congratulations. I'm super excited. I mean, yeah, we've been talking about Caleb for seven years. I'm a huge fan of the show. Obviously you are. And it's going to be so exciting to have you in charge of all of it. Right on. So everybody, just whatever you do when you're in Chicago next year, make Cal Lab part of your visit. Well, if you're looking for the best networking and the best business side of our industry, check out Cal Lab. You learn to say that, bar boy, you know that. That always screws me up. Elvin. Even on a Saturday morning. But what's kind of cool is some of the people you might actually meet at collab are these four wonderful people that I had the pleasure of talking to at this year's meeting, and I love that the fact that I'm starting off with the coworker of mine who's with me at Derby Dental Laboratories. We meet Liam Johns, grew up with a father that was a technician. Now Liam's still in his early 20s, and he's already the manager of a pretty good sizeable removeable department, so I've heard. Yeah, and he talks about what's excites him in this new digital age of renewables. Then my good friend Elvis got to meet two gentlemen from Ryan Dental Lab out of Arizona, Tom Ryan and Scott Lowery. Tom talks about his dentist father. We know how fun that is. Known as the denture guy and how that inspired him to go to dental technology school. Scott talks about trying to sell BRZ to Tom, and let's just say the first meeting wasn't the greatest. But now they have grown Ryan Dental Lab into a very well known lab that is doing all digital workflows and growing pretty rapidly. And then I wrap up the episode with a very unique story from the owner of First Choice Dental Lab, Matt Cushing. I know Matt. Yeah. Matt played professional football in the NFL. Like almost to the Super Bowl football. Damn. But it was a buddy of his that offered him a sales position during the offseason. And Matt discovered the dental lab world and never looked. Yeah, it never left. It wasn't long before he hired his own tech and opened his own lab, and now he's out there acquiring other labs. He became full service, and he's got an aspiration to tell his story on stage to others. So join us as we chat with Liam Johns, Tom Weiland, Scott Lowry and Matt Cushing. Are you a dental lab in need of more talent to improve your bottom line and keep production on schedule? Are you a dental tech with great skills but feel you're being limited at your current lab? Well, the answer is here. Hi, I'm Mark from Win Win Go and this is precisely why win Win go was created by the dental lab and dental tech community. Needed a place where labs and technicians. Can meet, talk about their needs, and connect in ways that foster a win win outcome. As a tech, if you're ready to make a change, thinking about moving in the next year or just curious what's out there? Sign up today. It's totally free. As a lab, you might be feeling the frustration of paying the big employment site so much and getting so few tech candidates. We understand they don't much care about our industry. Win win. Go. Com is simply the best place for lab techs and lab owners to actively engage in creating their ideal future. Win-Win dot com how Dental Techs find Paradise. Voices from the bench. The interview. I'm so happy to be here at Cal Lab and with me. I got fellow Darby employee and first time Cal Lab, I believe. Yes. No, first time Cal Lab LMT in general. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, we got a virgin. Liam. John. right? John or John? Liam johns. Liam Johns. How are you, sir? I'm doing pretty well. I'm enjoying the show. I'm having a great time. Yeah, it's a lot of information to soak up. I'm meeting a lot of new faces, a lot of new people. But it's so awesome just to get all the different perspectives and also hear that you're not the only one with your problems. You know, you're, uh. That's one thing you'll definitely learn as you come out of your solo lab, right? I mean, years and years ago, the first time I came here, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm not alone right now. You guys do that too? Yeah. Oh, wow. You have high remakes, too. Yeah. It's just like my world was this small and now it's just boom. It's huge. Ever expanding. Yeah. So tell the story of how you ended up at Derby. Because I know it's like a family, right? Yeah. Yeah, it is so. Um, so my father's been in this industry since about 1986. 87. Wow. He started out as a delivery driver and then at Derby. No. Not at. I'm sorry, I should rephrase. Just in the in the business in general. Okay, sure. Um, so he started out as a delivery driver for a lab in Lexington, and then he got his way into the lab, and then he started in Crown and Bridge, and then he moved over into removable. Got his seat and frameworks and yeah, he worked at affordable dentures for a long time. Yeah, you learn a lot there. Yeah. They used to fly him around and he would do training on anything from setting and waxing to processing. That was when they were bringing on the fluid resin process like they started. So yeah. Anyways, he had a home lab for a while, and I used to go down in the basement and see him. I don't know, I thought he was just like a mad scientist or something because he had like, you know, the lab coat on and he's mixing bowls of plaster. And I just was like, all right, I'm getting out of here. Do you have any idea what he was doing? No, no, he tried to show you teeth or he showed me, like, the finished product. When he picked me up from school, he would drive by doctors offices and I'd go run and pick up the cases and bring him back to him. Yeah, and I didn't know what was going on. But when I would have friends over, we'd mess around in the basement. And you open up these drawers, usually with sales. You know that, right? The adorable kid to pick up the kid. I know that now. Yeah, yeah, but, like, we'd go downstairs into his lab and you open up these drawers and they're cards of teeth. But my my friends would be like, oh, is your dad a serial killer? Like, what's going on here? You know, so real. So, uh, but fast forward to, um, let's see. 20. So 2017. I graduated from high school. Yeah. And for a while there. Um, I just didn't have a job. You know, I was just taking some time off. And then I was like, I think I need a job. I'm broke now. So I ran out of money quick. He put in the good word about me to read in Basel. So he. When did he go to Derby? When did your dad go there? 2015. And he just went there just for a job and. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he was. Yeah. Like I said, he he had his home lab for a while, but then that business dried up. You know, it's hard to do. You just can't compete. You know it's hard. I think that was around the time when the digital world was starting to really accelerate. So he just couldn't compete. And that's when he was like he had worked at Derby before. I think back in the 90s it went really old building. Yeah. It's a cycle for a lot of people. Yeah. And ironically, it's funny that he didn't sour the relationship because he only worked there so he could get a paycheck until he got his insurance. Uh, insurance license, I guess, to sell it. To sell insurance. Oh, really? Yeah. And so he got himself fired. But but, you know, uh, the owner, Dave Nunley, was such a nice guy. Like they left on good terms. Uh, but he's a removable guy. He was? Yeah. He's a. We'll hire you back. You could pretty much burn a bridge. And as long as you can do a good removable, we'll hire you back. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And my dad, he's he's highly skilled. So he put in a good word for you. He did at this point. Have you done anything? No, no I worked at a barbecue pit. You know, I'm like I'm like a I'm like a high school high school kid. And you had just graduated. But I was really good with my hands. I always have been. And I, um, had worked with his lathe and his handpiece, making little stuff, whatever. So I was familiar with the tools. Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah. So they brought me in for some tests. I did some hands on tests, which you've seen in the lab, I think. I've not seen the hands on test that we do. You sure it's where we have that little, uh. It's like a clay molar, remember? With the clay. Yeah. So we'll have somebody come in and they'll basically. We'll give them a molar. It's about, you know, a couple inches wide, etc.. And I'll say, make this to the best of your ability, and it can kind of show you if they're going to do well, say as a finisher or a waxer. We do that for every employee at Derby. Yes. Can I do it next time I come in? Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I've never done it. Yeah. For sure. And the funny thing is, I want to make sure I won't get fired, though, if I can't do it. Well, we'll just keep it between. Just for the time being. So how'd you do? I did great, yeah, I did great. They were really impressed. So they they brought me on as a finisher. But basically the person who was processing got mad that I was brought on as a finisher and quit. So then I started him. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait. Why did they get mad? You got brought in as a finisher? I guess they thought because they had been working there for a month, that they should be finisher, that they should be finisher. Finisher better than processor. They're both really labor intensive. They're very. Yeah, I wouldn't say so. I mean, I guess they maybe wanted they thought if they were sitting all day it was a better job versus, you know, you're standing a lot in process and you're mixing and pounding a lot of things because it was Derby doing press pack then or what. So it was very funny. It was literally a year or two right before I joined where they were still press, packing everything. But at that time they had brought Basil on around 2015 or so, and he was like, hey, let's do away with all this. Let's do the arrival base injection system. Yeah, they got three of them, and that's what they were doing at that time. And we still do that, right? Yes. Okay. Yes. And it's a great system. I mean, you have a very high success rate. The only controlled. It's controlled. The only time things will go wrong is number one. Obviously if you don't do good maintenance. Number two, if you use a different type of acrylic in their capsule. Oh yeah. So you can. So. So we tried that apparently. Yes. Yes. And you can do it. You can do it. It's just a if you don't like I said, if it's too viscous or it's too thick, it's, it's not going to inject or it's going to just spew out of the flask. Yeah. Up into the sensors and everything. So you're finishing well. So I processed for about nine months and I did very well at it. And then finally I was like, look, I really want to finish. I think I'd be really good at it. Can we please find somebody for me to train for this job? And they said yes. And so I train somebody to do that. And then I finished for 3 or 4 years. Wow. Yeah, well, you're not just finishing anymore. What happened? So I did really well at finishing at this point. Basil for everyone knows the VP of Derby. He's still the manager of that department, right? Yes. So I'm probably I'm sorry, I'm probably going a little bit too fast. So hopefully we're not talking about people that no one else knows because we both work at Derby. But anyhow, so ironically, Basil was the removeable manager up until I'd say about mid 2019. Then he started taking on a bit greater of a responsibility. Yeah, he was honestly overseeing operations throughout the entire lab, helping Crown and Bridge, helping implants. Um, he's actually, you know, CT and implant. So he has a lot of expertise here. Um, around Covid is when he really started to move into that operations role. Um, officially. Yeah. So, um, he started helping with the, uh, what was then called. Was it? True smile. Our our line. Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. He's. He started helping us when it was still in, like, in its startup phase. Yeah. Um, so. Yeah. So then that's when he moved out of that role. And then for a while there, um, a couple of ladies in the department stepped up, and they were dual managing. Yeah. Um, and then eventually I was like, look, I think I could be really good at it. Oh, you asked for it. I did, I did ask for it. And they didn't give it to me right off the bat, I was too I was too young to inexperienced. Um, so I just worked towards it and just tried to do everything I could to learn about the entire process as a whole, which I'm still learning. Um, better ways to set up, but I know how to do every step. So can you set up? I can set up. Okay. So when did you learn all that? That was the hardest part. That was a couple years ago. Nice. It's still, um. I'm still not in a good groove because, like, with finishing, because it was a daily job. I can do it right now. Like I was doing it, you know, yesterday, for years, but, um, not so much was set up in wax. So what's your role now? What do you do? I'm the removable. The department manager. So does that mean more putting out fires? Is that more talking on the phone? Is that a lot of a lot of phone though, as I'm sure you're aware of, I'm not the best at answering, but but I'm working on that because that's not going to fly. But no. Yeah. So it's basically just overseeing labor, making sure people are doing what they're supposed to be doing. Definitely putting out fires, also doing preventative measures. So we don't have those fires. Yeah. And one of one of the most exciting things and why I think Basil brought me is, you know, looking into the future on what we want to be doing and things that we could do better. Yeah. Bringing on new product lines, moving things more digitally, which is actually one of been one of my side projects, which is, um, doing digital partials. Yeah. Yeah. How is that going? It's going great. The. We're really just waiting right now after, you know, LMT and everything. So there's just not so many. I guess, just how would you put it? People gone out of the lab. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, but I've already ran a lot of tests on. Really? The main thing was, okay, can we scan it accurately enough for spaces for the wires? You know. Yeah. And you still got to put those in manually, right? I mean, you do, but if you do it right, if you bend the wire. Right, and you and you scan it right, it really just clicks into place and you put just a layer of resin over it. That's incredible. Yeah I think. Did you see one of the examples that I had? I don't think I had I did a test case where it was just 18, 19 and 20. Yeah. And you know, it had a wire going around 21 and then wrapping the distal of 31. The other side fit like a glove. Really. And it's really aesthetic too. Did it save time? It did save time. Yeah. I guess the only challenge would be since our turnaround time for a flipper is three days. Yeah, you would basically have to. Let's say if it's an analog impression paw, bend the wire and scan all in day one. Because day two needs to be dedicated to printing. Yeah, it's designed overnight. Day two is printing. Day three would be finished, hypothetically. And is it just as long to print a partial than it is a denture? Yes. Printing really, really is more so just about the height versus the width of it. And it has relatively the same height or or depth of a digital coverage sort of thing. Right. Do you like the digital denture? I do, if it's the right material. Yeah. I'm in the same camp as you. There's a lot of resins being pushed that are just cheap. Yeah, they're no stronger than eclipse base plate material. Yeah. Um, but I will. I will die on the hill of acetone. Printed dense ply. Acetone is the best I've ever seen. Were you excited about that digital denture coming out or. I was, because I saw how hard or how labor intensive it was to get the conventional dentures out, and also the repeatability of it because patients we would make them, let's just say, you know, their final they've had an immediate for a while and now it's their final and they love it. A year goes by. This patient can be very picky. They want that denture. Exactly. It's. But duplication is the key, man. Exactly. So that's one of the biggest value adders of a digital dentures. Repeatability. Yeah. And one of the things that Cal Lab that was brought up at the open forum was the flexible carbon material. I'm super stoked for this. Oh my gosh, you have. Listen, I if there's anybody I'm thinking about this all the time. I'm so excited because it is so hard to find somebody to finish. Dr. flex, I have one person. I can do it, don't get me wrong. Yeah, and I'm really good at it. I had two people for a while, but that. But one individual who was dedicated to them, she unfortunately is no longer with the company, so I now only have one person who can do them if she's not there. Yeah, it's so hard to make those things look good. I think maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm terrible at it. But anytime I make an adjustment, it just looks like a Brillo pad. I mean, it just looks like it's. And and the the other side of it is getting someone to wax it to consistent thickness and processing. The biggest reason, I think, why our flex cases aren't going out when they're supposed to is because we'll get them at finishing. There's a chunk of stone in the in the acrylic and doing a repair on it. You can almost always tell and I'm like, if it doesn't look brand new and it doesn't have the properties of not having a repair. Yeah. We we can't send this out. I think it's going to be a game changer. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And uh, metal framework. So Dhabi's big onto printing the metal frameworks. It took us a while to dial that in. I'm not gonna lie. You're. You're absolutely right. It was. I'm sure it was very painful for you because you're having to be in the office. And when you get a case where those rest, uh, preps, there's, like a two millimeter gap. That's if you can get an explorer under there. That's a no no. And that's exactly the case you're talking about. Yeah. That was that was painful. Yeah. The funny thing about that was when we got those machines, there was very little on board training from that company. Really? Yeah. Um, which, which is on us to we probably should've done a little bit more digging, but, um, the powder we found out wasn't we weren't given the proper printing parameters for that powder. And it was also crappy powder in general. Yeah, I know we switched. We did. We switched to the big O powder. Um, and I'm pretty sure. Bago. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's chrome cobalt. Yep. And it's very nice. It's very nice. Oh, they've been beautiful. And dropping in. Mostly. Mostly. Yeah. What would you say if you could give a rough estimate on what you're saying? What's the percentage wise? Oh, I'd say it's a good 85. Okay, great. Which is more than analog. Yeah. Really, I think so. Yeah. See, I haven't had the only experience I've had with the analog frameworks was we always outsourced them to some, um, you know, in state laboratories because we didn't have the proper. Nobody has. Nobody has people anymore. The burnouts or the people. Yeah. The problem with analog, I always found, was they were over polished. You think so? Yeah. So a person would sit there and polish like a class just to make it shiny. Not realizing they're taking off microns of metal. And now you don't have the retention that you had before, but it's shiny. The nice thing about the digital is that electro polisher is not really an abrasive polish. Right? You just barely have to touch it. And to me, that's the huge difference. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I guess that's a good point about that electro polisher. So it basically is running through a bucket of very fine artificial, almost like pumice. Yeah. But it's damp. So it actually shines the entire surface of the frame as well, which I don't think they could do that before with the, with the gas. Yeah, I guess not to the point that the electric polisher does. Right. Yeah. Are you excited for the future? Are you going to stay in this industry forever? Yes. Should we mention how young you are as a denture technician? Yes. I'm 25. That's insane. 25. We were at lunch today at Cal Lab and somebody says you're that young. What, are you, drunk? And it was the funniest thing I ever heard because it's so rare to have. I don't want to say this wrong, but a young renewable technician that is excited to do this. I do, I do take pride in being unique in that aspect because, you know, you're absolutely right. I mean, even in the the almost two years I've been just in management and been in charge of onboarding and hiring people, you're absolutely right. You can't find anybody, at least in my age group. Which I actually did recently, so I can't say 100%, but yeah, it's it's there's hardly anybody just becoming a dental technician now. It's a, it's a dying army. Big problem. Yeah. But it's great that you're doing it. I actually do have some good news though. So I just hired somebody. Who? She's a finisher right now. She just graduated from college and she was basically a theater. And how do you say, like, theater production major? Yeah. So unemployable major, basically unemployable captive audience. I'm like, come here. Um, so I brought her on and she is so good. And she she has a smile on her face all day. She even asked me if she could take photos of what she's making. And she's just finishing dentures right now. Yeah, uh, she genuinely loves it. And what really made me love it, it was just a job to me at first. I'll admit that I was just processing what made me fall in love with it was when I saw how it affected people. And it genuinely changed people's lives. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's beautiful. How long is this new hire been there? She's only been there about a couple months. Oh, she still has a smile after a couple of months. She does. I'm surprised. Here's how I knew. She here's here's how I knew she was different. Is the day that she was supposed to come in. Was actually when we got that big snowstorm. So January 5th or something. Yeah. So we shut down that day, but it was the sixth. A bunch of people still called in and I said, hey, I understand if you can't come in. Yeah, don't worry about it. Yeah. She came right on in. Worked the whole day and. Yeah. Hasn't called in once. Man, it's been amazing. What a good first impression. And as you can understand, a lot of the technicians with bad attitudes don't like her because she they know she's a threat. What do you smile at a suspicious. Awesome. Yeah. Well, Liam, man, thank you so much. Thanks for having having you on the podcast. I love working with you, dude. You're a good dude. Yeah, I appreciate care, and that's what really matters a lot in our industry. Well, I got to get a lot of props to you. Um, if anyone cares, it's you. You're really sorry. You're you're you're picky. No. Don't be. Look, I I will admit it was a bit much at first working with you, but that's because I'd never worked with somebody who was as consistent as you. Yeah. Um, but I think you have a better understanding of you now. And, man, you're really awesome. And it's all about the patient and the product, man. It is, it is. So just know that I'm going to work on my communication skills. That's an answer. The damn phone. Answer the phone. Right, right. Especially my voicemail too. Yeah. Thanks, Liam. So. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Have a good one. You, too. Bye. It's the no prep veneer, no prep veneer. The conversation. So this is exciting. We're at Cal Lab. We just finished the first night. I have I'm going to say laboratory royalty here. X whose hot I remember that. Oh yeah. What was that like four years ago or something? Yeah. I was hot four years ago. Yeah. Not so much anymore. Tom Weiland from Weiland dental lab, Weiland y and close. Yeah. You added an extra letter L on it. No, l can you put an L in it for me? You know what? You could. It makes it more interesting. It then becomes Weiland. Yeah, but. So we're on an island of Y lab, and then we have who? Scott. Scott. Lowry. Yeah. Lowry. What do you do? So I'm our technical support manager. Oh, yeah. So you do all the hard work. I do a lot of the field troubleshooting. Yeah. He gets face to face with the with the customer. So, Tom, tell me the story of Weiland. Why and why and. Okay, Beth, we're going to change the name on Monday to Weiland. We like. We decided we like Weiland. I add letters and words, so. Right. Sorry. You can change a name. It's not hard. A lot of brands. Give me the story. The story is, uh, started the lab in 1992. You started it? I did my dad. My dad was a dentist. Okay? He was the denture guy outside of Pittsburgh. Small town Newcastle, Pennsylvania. He was a dentist. He was a dentist. Dentures. He was the denture guy. Nobody liked doing that. That was like his legit name. Like his title? Like the nickname? Yeah. Yeah. Even back then, the doctors didn't like doing dentures, so they would send them to him. Oh, and how did he get good at him? Because everybody sent him. He knew it. Enough. You know what? You got bills to pay. And so you're like, yeah. Denture patient walks through the door. I better figure this out as well. But but yeah, he practiced 47 years. So he was really good at it. And so I got a lot of practice. Went to lab school in Philadelphia and then lab school. That's obviously not there anymore. Isn't that a shame? Yeah. South and broad. Did he push you to go into lab school or. No, no. I like everybody. There's a bug flying around here. Way to go, collab. What kind of rinky dink show you're running? I didn't know what I wanted to do. You know, in high school, and I didn't want to be an accountant. And I liked working in his lab. He did all his own denture work. Oh. Did he? Yeah. Wow. So he's basically a denture. He kind of. Kind of. But he did play licensed. Yeah, he did about ten dentures a week. Wow. This is 1989. Did you help him? Yeah. So once I went to lab school, he would mail the work to me. And then I would do all the set ups during the week, and I would wax them, send them back. He would try them in and process them himself. So while you were in lab school, was it pretty easy for you because you're so used to doing half the stuff? No, I mean, I when when I worked with him, I only did basic wax ups and processing and stuff like that, so. But I got really good really fast because we did a lot of work. Sure. And it was great. It was a great opportunity. And I got a box once a week and I had the you'd get a card like this under your door, and I'd have to go down to the security desk and get my box to your box. Yeah. So finally, after about a year of that, the guy looked at me and just say, come every day, he said. I know what you're doing up there in that apartment. He thought you were a drug dealer or something, and I got. Yeah. So I told you, want me to tell you what I'm doing? He goes, you don't need to tell me you're building a bomb. Oh, he thought you were building a bomb. Yeah. So, anyway. And then the funny part was, I graduated, I think about two weeks later, and I moved. And I remember him just thinking, you know that boy up on the 13th floor? As soon as I called him out on that bomb, he was out of here. So you graduated school? Graduate school, went to Arizona. Hated the winter. Yeah. Just like right now. This this is painful. I bet Chicago. So I went out to Arizona and worked for a laboratory for about two years and then started started my. I knew a guy that was retiring and closed his lab, so he had about. So you bought a lab that was already set up or. No, I was dating the delivery driver, so I kind of acquired the account. Wait a minute. He retired. You're dating the delivery driver? She's like, he went to Mexico and she just kept picking up the work. But I said, I'll take the delivery driver and those eight accounts. That's hilarious. So, anyway, you know, just wanted to do higher end work. At the time, I was working it at your home, or I was working at a production lab, and, uh, so I rented space from a guy, and he was a crowded bridge lab. And then we collaborated together and shared some accounts and just grew it organically from there, and had a good mentor. When I was first starting out across the dentist, he was extremely, uh, particular. Man, that's what it takes to kind of put you in your place every day to teach you, right? Yeah. Humility is, uh. Yeah. You're always going to be humble when you have a guy like that. So anyway, taught me a lot. Um, got a lot of experience over the years. And then I just grew the lab from there over a year now. At how many are 35? About 35. Yeah. Give or take. Yeah. So we're full service now. Um, I'm the denture guy, but, um, you adopted your father's name? Yeah, I'm the denture guy now, but, um, when did Scott come into the picture? Scott's been ten years. Yeah, ten years, ten and a half years. Wow. Um, July will be 11 years. So I'll tell you actually a funny story, Elvis, about Tom and the evolution and of the business and coming in. So again, I've been with the lab for ten and a half years, and prior I was a bird salesman. Oh, what a bird. Yeah, like a comet. That's exactly what I was. I was exactly comet. And so fast forward is the very first time I'd ever met Tom. I'm in this lab, and Tom was subleasing some space in this lab. And the guy said, yeah, the guy tells me, he says, oh, by the way, you know, there's a denture lab around the corner. I said, oh, well, perfect opportunity right now. We're gonna turn that down. So I make the corner, I go in. And at the time I think, Tom, would you have four, maybe four employees, five boys? And clearly it was not a good day in dentures and removals and having a bad day. I'm a bright eyed, bushy tailed, like, was a ginger guy a little? Yeah. Not friendly like he was. Yeah. He was the epitome of a denture guy that day. Like, hated the hated life. Hated the world. Right. So I, I'm, you know, bright eyed, bushy tailed, I, I grabbed my catalog like, oh, here we go. We're going to go sell some acrylic burgers. And I make the corner and I go around and Tom's like, kind of hunched over and he's working his bench and you know, he's walk over and I'm like, hi, I'm Scott and I'm like full of energy with it. Yeah. And Tom like slowly stops and he Slowly turns and looks up at me like, who the hell are you? And fast forward, I remember leaving the catalog and thinking, wow, who the hell would want to work for that guy? Oh, and here we are, ten and a half years later, still there. And so here I am. Before you sold BRS, were you in anything else? No, no, no. So crazy went into it selling burrs. I did, yeah. Crazy story with comet, I was hired. Uh, what was. I was, uh, let's see, December oh six. So I would have been, like, 22 years old when comet worked in your first adult job. Yeah, it was, like, right out of college. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And and they were like, hey, you ever been to Arizona? I was like, no. Um, I honestly didn't even realize they sent you to Arizona. Yeah, I didn't even realize it. You're a 22 year old. Yeah, I'll tell you. 110 degrees and, you know, pounding the pavement. But yeah, that's true. And that's how. That's how I met Tom. Yeah, he became an accountant. Fast forward, you know. So you did buy from him? He did. He did really well in the story, too. There was, uh, my wife Beth. She was. She was the delivery driver. Yeah. No, by the way. Okay. Jeff's okay. Yeah, she's staring right at me. There is a death stare coming over here. So she's interviewing people, and they're coming and going, and she can't make a decision. Come on somebody and and I again kind of the same thing. Don't really say a lot. Just handed a car to go here. You want to you should just hire this guy. So gave him his card and she called him to come interview. And you know, he's. Wait Scott came in to interview or so I, I had her reach out to him. So why did you decide to interview for being at this lab if he was such a. Yeah. Well that was well, we admitted my wife seven years later. Yeah. My wife is the one that wins people over. Yeah, yeah. Beth, actually, I'll never forget I was in Albuquerque, New Mexico on a work trip and my phone rang and she had reached out. And at the time, I had a brand new baby at home. And I was it was kind of like, I don't know, you know, I hadn't really thought about that. And, um, fast forward, I met with Tom, met with Beth, and they were like, look, you know, it's an opportunity for, you know, coming to work with a great lab. I actually started in sales for the lab. Yeah. Okay, so the idea was comic guy. Yeah. Like, bring him in to do sales for the right 100%. Okay, so how did that go? It's so different. A little different. Yeah. For sure. I mean, I, you know, I thought I had some, some knowledge, uh, in background and it was a whole new world. Right. It's one thing selling like. Something that can't really go wrong, right? Like I say that all the time. It's a million. Something wrong? Here's a widget. Right. You're gonna love this bird. Yeah. We make 1000 at a time. They're all the same. Yeah. Here's a denture. And I cannot guarantee if this is going to fit, you know. Or not. Right. Like, there's so many factors, and I've learned that I've actually been really fortunate to. You know, be under Tom's wing. And again just amazing people amazing company. And it's been an awesome evolution even in my career. I started out with sales and here I am now. Was he your first sales person? He was really. I mean, you know, Beth was when she came, my wife, she came from radio, so she was sales. But then as the lab was growing, you know, we needed to really have a dedicated salesperson. But, you know, his role now is grown into, um, chair side support. I mean, with all the all in fours that we do, do conversions and stuff. So I don't do conversions. I actually oversee more of the restorative side. And then I do a lot of education programs. Um, both lunch and dinner programs, as well as just a lot of the, um, lab outreach And, you know, I need the VIP stuff or, you know, hand-holding stuff like that that we need. And then, as you can tell, Tom and I are kind of like, we're like the movie twins, right? I'm Danny DeVito. He's Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? Well, you wanted that one, Tom. You know, like, here I am, the short. I will bump you up. There you go, Tom. Crazy tall guy. But no, like, we're polar opposites and personality as well. And I think that's why it does so well. You know, he's quiet, reserved. I'm like, in your face. Squirrel on acid all the time. Yeah. So he's high energy. So when you built the lab, when did you get into Full arch? Were you pretty early in the game? We I, I was doing hybrids the whole time, 92, where we did hybrids. They were five millimeters off the tissue, you know, five vertical implants. Yeah. We did a lot of, um, back in the day, spark erosion type thing and then, uh, Swiss lock over dentures, those kind of things. Yeah. So I would say 2008, I think. Yeah. 2008 Clear choice came to Phoenix and everybody freaked out. All the surgeons and periodontist. So. They started having lunch and lunch with their clients. Hey, you can do this too. Yeah. The team approach from Bell. So they knew they needed a lab to facilitate that. So we helped our clients facilitate site conversions, which I did not want to do that at the time, I didn't. You know, technicians back then didn't want to be out of the lab. Never. A lot of them still don't. Yeah. Not back then. Even less. Yeah. So we started doing conversions in 2008, and then it grew exponentially. Um, because there was not a lot being done. Being done. Well, we did them well. That was good for sure. So that's kind of the evolution of into full arches. Oh eight and then it just really take off. So same thing. I was doing a lot of night programs at the time with no bell. You know, they were really spearheading that whole thing. I mean, Phoenix is to me is like, it's like a Mecca of dentists, isn't it? Like a lot of dentists in that small radius. Yeah. It seems like they're always talking about Phoenix. And isn't that where spear is? Spear? Yeah. So, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot going on. Is there a lot of labs? There's. I don't know, but yeah, I would say capita. Yeah. But there's a lot of in-office all in four centers. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of implant centers in the Phoenix market, a couple of bigger labs. And then, um, I would say there's very few of us that are kind of the mid-tier size that really focus on quality yourself. Above all that, again, focusing on quality and expertise. Right. Um, saying, hey, we're large enough to handle your volume and your business, but we're still going to give you that personal touch. And that's huge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Expertise as well. Yeah. We really don't want to work with everybody to. You can get really big if you work with everybody. But then you deal with a lot of, um aftermath. So ETFs had a lot more hair when I started doing that. Tell me about it. You got the most hair out of all three of us. What are you complaining about? Kill for that much here? Yeah. So are you into digital now? We are. So, yeah, we're doing, um, analog is definitely transitioning out. Yeah. Um, so we're in digital workflows. Um, we just started incorporating some working with the true abutment IO connect system. Oh, you like that? Been phenomenal. Yeah. We see, uh, uh, transition out of photogrammetry is starting to become yesterday's news by one. No, I didn't want to. I didn't either. Didn't want a bone. I don't see the point. I have a boat, but I have an anchor already. Yeah, we do it without it, and it drops in every time. So. Yeah. Trying to struggle. Why I would. Well, I'm. And I'll tell you everything today and even yesterday is, um, it was said on the stage today that, uh, everything's going to iOS. And within less than a year, we're all going to be in iOS or some form of whatever, because there's so many out there now, and they they seem to work well. So the ones that we've done have fit perfectly. We haven't had one, not yet. So, um, we're scaling that a little. So what do you like? Scan and dia surgery? No. So we were doing only temp to finals now? Yeah, we started in the restorative phase. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so after integration. Yeah. Because if there's a problem, I want to be able to fix it. We're doing smart dentures. Uh, for the for the smart denture conversion. Yeah. So we still do all those. We do have. We're just starting with the the day of surgery one. So it's going to kick off with the I o connect. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've done a few with omni splint. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On. Did you like that. It works. Yeah. It's got it's. Setback because it's got this like network and it covers the whole palette. Or if you're using like a fiduciary screw or something, it's hard to get that. Yeah. But I mean, every single one we've done probably done 30 of them. Yeah. Drop right in nice without photogrammetry. I don't know why people are buying these things, but yeah, I just probably lost all sponsorship from photogrammetry. Well, and we have one doctor that does kind of the insta thing with scanned bodies. And you put the impression material and you just connect it. Yeah. No problem. Yeah, it works too. And it worked from a distance, which is even better. So yeah, like, you know, running this back and forth, you know, and so are you going out there with the true abutment stuff and helping them do that. Who's doing that. You you're you're looking at him. Yeah. Do you like it I call it version 3.0 at this point. Yeah. Tom and I've gone through a few different versions. We were just joking about this last night dinner. I said, you know, it's kind of funny because I'm the guy that runs out there and, you know, throws stuff on the wall to see if it sticks, right? Yeah, I tell him, all right, Scott, here's what you're going to do next. This is next, dude. This, this this and this. Yeah. And then I'm crazy enough to go do it. He's crazy enough to go. Yeah. No, it's been great. We've had great support from our doctors as well. And I think the doctors realize the digital advantage. Oh it's huge on that. It is huge. And I said, do you like cutting jigs? They're like no. And I'm like, it's gone. And they love it. And they can scan. You know, they don't like compression material. They don't like any jigs, they don't like any of that. But they can scan. Yeah. So they get the concept of that. Yeah. Absolutely. So it's been good. It's a fun journey. Yeah. And it has it's been yeah. As Tom said it's been a fun journey. It's been a lot of research a lot of time investment. But you know again. The right protocols and proper, proper channels and doing things the right way. And again, I think I think it helps to. Coming from a lab that, you know, does pride itself say, hey, we we want to be the experts, we want to work through this and we want to we want to see success on both sides. And I think a lot of doctors have respect for that. Plus, they love the digital as well as patients love digital. Oh yeah. They think that's so cool right? I think it's so neat. Yeah, I love how fascinated they are with it. And they'll even be like, you want to see your teeth? And most of them are like, no. Yeah, yeah. I always freak people out after I if I get like a full upper and lower and have the bite and I'll spin it around, I'll say, this is what your tongue sees all day long. That's a good one. Oh my God, I'm going to use it. That's a good one. Nobody ever gets to see it from that point of view. Right? That's true. So that patients always love that. What's new for what's coming up for why. And did I say it right. Yeah. You got it. Yeah. Yeah okay. It's hard. Yeah I did I put it in there mentally right now. You know how they felt on Ellis Island. Everybody was coming over adding and subtracting letters all the time. Yeah, that's where I come in. What are you working on next? What's the big thing? So, I mean, really this this digital push right now in the clinic space is a big thing for us. At the same day surgery and next day, as well as even like a, you know, some of the satellite or remote, uh, opportunities with doctors and, um, it's been it's been a really cool thing, really focusing on, again, the quality and digital workflows. We've had phone calls from doctors call us out of state and say, hey, we hear you're these digital guys from my colleagues. You love that. It's been awesome. Yeah, that's yeah, it's really cool to get that opportunity to say, yeah, and problem solve with people. And it's been a lot of fun. Do you do a lot of work outside of your area? We do a fair amount. Yeah. A lot of specialists, really. They seek us out. We do a lot of milled dentures too as well. We're not really printed. Yeah, a lot of them. Um, so they seek out for that. They want the milled product. Yeah. Over the printed still. So we build a lot of accounts from that process. So and a lot of our again removable implant supported cases like the bar over dentures and stuff like that. Um, it seems like everyone's full arch, but they don't really offer a lot of that stuff anymore. So harder and harder for people to find that solution. Oh, for like a, like just like a locator locator over denture with on a bar or everything with lock pins. Yeah. Everything's not everything should be fixed. No, it's not for everybody. I had one patient of a client of mine who says, you got to get this hybrid out of your mouth. I feel like every day I'm going to the bathroom with my pants on. Oh, what a weird visual. Can't clean it. I heard a guy say today. Call it a dirty diaper. Yeah. And that's, you know, so they want to be able to clean it. Some patients. Um, but for a lot of people need to be able to clean it. Yeah. And some. Is perfect. So. Yeah. So what the. The mill denture. Why'd you get into that? I mean, so initially for all in for conversions, we had such a high fracture rate. Um, I mean, 30% roughly. And that's off printed dentures. Just regular process dentures. Yeah. So, you know, the old way before smart denture, you'd hog out a gigantic hole and you do backfill and you have a weak spot there. So it would, it would break or a tooth would come out. So we I wanted to when I saw devotion I wanted to switch to that. So we immediately bought the mill came out I think in June. I bought it in September. Wow. And we I said, we're going to make all of our provisionals milled and then immediately drop that rate down to, I think, I don't know, just under 10%. Yeah. And then that worked great. And then once we went to Smart Denture it's it's a good combo. It's almost who's doing the smart denture conversion. You. I have a girl that, uh, works for me. That's pretty much out every day. And then I do overflow. And I like to do a it's fun some a month because it gets you and your clients. We let him out of his cage cage once in a while. Are you on the bench a lot, Tom? Not really. No, no. I'm treatment planning with doctors, I troubleshoot. I got, you know, Jeremy and Angela, managers for the removal department in our laboratories. If it gets past them, it gets to me. Um, I deal with that. those cases at that time. But a lot of treatment planning, surgical guides or anything like that, or we do some we have a couple of clients, but we don't do a lot. No we don't really stackable or anything. No, no. Do you want to get into that realm? Oh, yeah. Okay. You know, it's funny you answered it. The Phoenix market. It's funny because there's a lot of early adopters and a lot of our clients. There's they're so quick and they're good. They do amazing jobs at bone reduction and implant placement spacing. It would slow them down to have a guy to have a guy that's so good at it and they do great. We have guys that do trans nails, pterygoid, zygomatic. Um, so they're really talented. A lot of them lecture that must be fun to do those cases. It is because you walk in and it's like you're just shooting fish in a fishbowl. It's it's so easy. Right. The surgeons that are compromised. Right. Or the GP, maybe it doesn't do quite as good a job or. Yeah, but we have some GPS that are amazing at it, so it just depends. Yeah. Um, but surgery not done well is it's not a good day. Do you participate in any spheres since it's in your backyard or. You know, we really don't. Really interesting. We've we've gone to spear meetings for people. And you know who who have. Oh, we have a we have a doctor that's going to, you know, present on a certain case. So they'll want us to be there. But we haven't really we've wanted to um. Just never really. Do you do any study clubs? Just always busy. So study clubs in the sense of we we did when I, when I first started. We did. Yeah. Yeah we did a couple you know it's interesting again the Phoenix market is such an interesting market as a whole. Um you don't see a lot of real tight connections interesting amongst doctors. Um, even even in the, even in the, um, referral space and specialist space. It's very it's very interesting market. Uh, even getting the same specialty in the same room can be very difficult. They all hate each other. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't it's just interesting. It's just all competition. Yeah. It's just a different market that can go around. Right? Yeah. It's just a different. You do a lot of bleed shade in Phoenix. We do, we do. I'm just guessing here I will. There's a it's a, it's the number two retirement county in the in the country Florida number one uh whatever county in Florida. But we have a doctor that every shade is pretty much be all for. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like yeah for yeah. I'm like, hey, these clients are 6070. They've never had good teeth. And now they want them, now they want well okay. And they're okay. I want them straight across in the incisal. Just some. Yeah. Yeah. And they're okay with their teeth entering before they do. They're okay with that. Yeah. They're like hey I want my I, I had a actually this is a great story. Uh had a patient one time and I'll never forget her. Uh, she was we had to do specialty crowns, uh, because of the shading. Yeah. And the bleach, the bleach shape. And and I remember telling her on this hybrid, I said, um. Yes. Individualized crowns. I said, now you understand that, like this bleach shade. Like it's not going to look natural at all. And she says, honey, look at me. Is there anything on this body that looks natural? My response was, you're okay then? Yeah, I was dying laughing. That's hilarious. Me and the doctor looked at each other like, okay. Yeah. I mean. And the best part too. I actually saw her, uh, just just actually last year, uh, kind of on a follow up situation, and it was great. She's still loving life, and. Yeah, nothing looks natural falling apart. Everything's high and tight. That is hilarious. Well, thank you so much. You're welcome. I love what you all are doing. I follow you. Thank you. Social media. Well, we love the show. We have a couple of technicians that are sitting there in the laboratory listening to it every week. And you got to come listen to Elvis this week. Yeah. So, um. Great interview. I love what you get out of people, and you have a real talent to draw it out of them. Yeah. Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of Cal. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Take care. Take care. Bye. Super excited here at Cal Lab 2025. I have a I have a pre dental lab celebrity. I'm sure you get sick of talking about this, but I'm going to make you do it. No. No problem. Matt. Crushing Cushing. Cushing. God, I just tried that. Matt Cushing. That'd be a great football name, though. The first choice dental lab right here in the Chicago area, Chicago area, western suburbs, Downers Grove, as well as, uh, um, we've got a small location in the Milwaukee area. Yeah, I heard that. Yeah. You liking it? Yeah, yeah. Love it. I mean, been in the lab industry now for. Well, first choice has been around 17 years, 17 years. Um, and so I've been in the industry about 19 years. It's hard to believe. Now, let's back up. Let's go through it. You're a big football star, so give me the story. Sure. I always say this is my second career. My first career. I spent six years, um, playing tight end and fullback for the Pittsburgh Steelers. How did you get into football? Like college. You play college and they drafted you. Was that whole thing I wasn't drafted, I, I grew up on the South Side of Chicago. I played my college ball at the University of Illinois in Champaign and had a good career and wasn't sure if I get an opportunity to play in the NFL. I didn't get drafted. I was signed as a free agent after the draft, uh, by the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah. Nice. And I mean, we can go through the whole journey, but I was. Invited to training camp, got cut at the end of training camp. Came back home, worked as a substitute teacher. Oh, really? And a high school football coach because I wanted to keep pursuing football. Yeah. Um, got signed by the Pittsburgh Steelers in the offseason and allocated to the NFL Europe League, which really is no longer in. I kind of remember that. Yeah, they're they're defunct now, but, uh, went and played for the Amsterdam Admirals for a spring, so lived in Amsterdam for about four months. Wow. You played football? Yeah. Yeah, we played football. It was not a bad life. Yeah. It wasn't. I'm not going to complain too much at that point. Wasn't married, although I got married that following summer, but, um, went back to training camp with the Steelers, got cut again, but got resigned midway through the year. What are these injuries? Excuse my ignorance, but you just go through like a week of them seeing how you do, and then they decide you're not good enough. Um, it was longer than that. Okay. Yeah. So training camp usually lasts. Camp is usually about three weeks, and then you get into preseason games. So you're talking to six seven week evaluation. Oh, so you actually did preseason games and then they cut you. Yep. Okay. Yeah. So that's part of the life of the guys living on the fringe. Sure, sure. But um, but got resigned uh, midway through that year and, uh, was able to finish out the year, started some games, played some games. Nice. Went back to camp the following year. Got cut again at the end of camp. Got resigned. Yeah. Got resigned mid-season. What do you do in these in-betweens? Just get odd jobs or. Yeah, I mean I, I was fortunate at that point. I was coming back to Chicago and I worked as a substitute teacher and high school football coach because I had worked, had a lot of contacts and started, you know, started job searching in case I never got another opportunity. Yeah, yeah. But, um, but yeah. And then I ended up making the team the next training camp, and still there were. Three other times getting cut. So I got cut, uh, seven times in six seasons. Oh, jeez. Um, so on again. Off again. But I got six seasons with them. I'm surprised you kept trying. Yeah, honestly. Yeah. It's hard to get rid of me, apparently. Yeah, but, uh, we were a game away from the Super Bowl twice. We lost to Tom Brady and the Patriots. Uh, twice, uh, while I was there. So I had a had an incredible time. Met some amazing people. Uh, the Pittsburgh Steelers organization, you know, high quality from the top down, the Rooney family that owns it. Especially now being out and owning my own business for a while. Certainly can respect it even more how they ran it. But, um, but yeah, a phenomenal time in my life. And when I finished doing that, I was living in Pittsburgh. My wife and I lived there, and my son was about a year old, and a friend of a friend owned a lab out in Pittsburgh and said, we'd like to put a sales rep in the Chicago area. Would you like to try that? My college degree was urban planning. City planning? Um, sound like you used that? Yeah, I didn't want to do that. I did, I did an internship in Pittsburgh with an engineering firm. Didn't want to do it. And like, the idea of sales kind of eat with a kill mentality. Yeah. Um, so when I did that for for a couple of years, we really liked about dental, though. Knew nothing about dental. So this lab taught you everything. Taught. Taught me the taught me products, taught me sales processes. Really enjoyed the small business, the small business sale, which I think a lot of, you know, probably most of the industry really loves the dentist. Yeah. Yeah. So I did that for a few years, and then a couple people approached me about having the opportunity to start our own lab in the Chicago area. And, and we did that and off we went in First Choice's now, you know, like 17 years, you're going from sales. Obviously you're not doing the work. Correct. So correct. We hired a technician, we utilized outsourcing, and we built it from one employee up to we're close to 2728 employees at this point. Um, I just I've not heard this before where a sales person decides to open their own lab because you have no technical background. That's a lot of trust in your employees. It is right off the bat. It is. And it was a learning curve. Sure. But I jumped in, and I. I learned as much as I could. I've always been a. A hands on guy. Um, I always love building stuff. Woodworking has been a hobby of mine for a long time, and and so I like I like building things and I like building systems. And I think the combination of those two kind of came together for starting the lab. So you just kept doing sales for your lab? For our lab, as well as learning the processes. And how do we make it? And, you know, if it's the first person you hired, a waxer or, uh, all around crown and bridge guy, really, I was able to do a little bit of everything. And so we were able to to, to launch it that way. Was this, was this technician already working somewhere else? And you're like, hey, I opened up a brand new lab. You want to give it a shot? Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of faith. Yeah. He had just left a job at a lab. Yeah, near us. So he was ready to go. The timing was. Timing was right. Yeah. Nice. So, um, not, you know, definitely not the conventional start, you know? So just ground and bridge to start. Just crown and bridge to start. Uh, handful of doctors, handful of doctors. How'd you get them to trust you that first time? Sales. Do they know you from your previous sales? No. Some of them did. I mean, some of them had my contacts and reached out, but, um. A lot of knocking on doors. A lot of cold calls. You know, you make enough cold calls. Sales is a numbers game. You know, if you you make enough calls and you ask the right questions, the right you go through the right process, you're going to you're going to find those customers. Yeah. So yeah, we started started slow and um, and built it up along the way. Yeah. You know, added some different products, added implants, eventually added renewables and like I said, did a lot of outsourcing to other labs and, uh, and asking for help, uh, that way. But eventually, uh, turned it into full service dental lab at this point. So this opened when what year did you open? 2008. Eight. So really good economic time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you probably got into digital right away. I mean, we did. Yeah, we did get into digital right away. And, uh, the system was where we kind of jumped in and a lot of people started within the lab. Yeah, it was kind of the easiest way to get in. Very user friendly, user friendly, but a lot of a lot of stuff to learn because nobody was doing digital, you know, so you didn't have this type of community to lean on at that point. But yeah, we got into digital right away and that, you know, we at least saw that that was going to change what a typical lab looked like. So for a long time, I mean, we didn't cast metal at our place for 14, 15 years. But then you started casting and then we started casting. We eventually did because we did some merger slash acquisition stuff where a couple, some local labs, we merged them into our operation, and they brought in some of that skill set, PFM accounts. And how painful was that? All of a sudden we said, why are we doing PFI? But now there's always a there's, there's a call for it. But wow. But yeah, we went I mean we went a good 14 years of never casting in-house, just outsourcing. Argonne was a great partner 100%. Yeah. And, um, are you still casting? We are casting occasionally. Yeah. Only occasionally. You got one guy there that knows how to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I got a couple guys. I got some some, uh, some old school technicians. Yeah. Good. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. No. They're great. The knowledge that they bring and, um, you know, is, is tremendous. And and that's the thing that you gotta worry doesn't get lost in our industry. Sure. Absolutely. Legacy knowledge. Yeah. So, fixed implants and renewables. This whole cow lab is all about full arch. It seems like. Are you doing a lot of those? We're doing full arch. Um, we brought up one of the labs that merged into us a couple of years ago. Brought a decent book of business and skill set there. We were just starting to get into it ourselves. Yeah. So we're doing a little bit of it. Um, we anticipate that growing. Obviously it's growing in the market, but, um, we've got a really, I think a really good team, a small team, because we're not doing a ton of it. But I think we've got a great team that's that's working on those cases right now. And we're looking forward to, uh, to trying to grow that, going out, doing conversions, that kind of thing is that big in the Chicago area. Yeah, conversions are big. Um, photogrammetry. Oh, you're into that? Yeah. We're doing. Which one do you get? We went with, uh, the micron map. Okay. I've heard great things about it. Yeah, we we've had great results, and we jumped into it slowly. We went out for training last year and just kind of slowly got into it, and it's been very successful for us. We had, like I said, some great results. Tough because it's not very scalable. Um, meaning what? You got to have multiple of them. Yeah. Meaning you only have one. I can only. Yeah, you can only. You can only service one doctor with one camera at one time. Yeah. So, so we're looking at ways that how do we make our all Onex offerings a little bit more scalable. And that's something that I think probably everybody is as well. But uh, but yeah that's one of the things that's top on our mind. But you're, are you offering that same day where they print and delivering like designing print and deliver all in the same day? We we offer it for the surgery. Everything that we've done so far has been next day. Yeah. Um, so we've delivered them. Yeah, we've delivered them next day and and had zero issues or complications. That's awesome. Um, and we just have not taken the leap of putting the printer in the back of the car to. I've heard labs do that. I just don't know. Maybe it's the way I drive, but I'd be worried about having a printer back there. Yeah. And then you get to, like, level it when you get there. Yeah, I do worry about that. I know that there's a ton of labs that do it and they say, you know, you calibrate it, you're good to go. But that also extends the time. I don't know that, you know, um. Obviously, we've got to respond to our customer needs and our customer desires as well. And that's no one's asking. Right. Deliver the next day. We're getting we're getting that request, but we're saying what we'll do is we'll print in the lab and deliver it to you. And that just makes too long a day. Yeah, it really does make a long day. So everything we're doing right now, pretty much for a day of surgery is next day delivery. Yeah. So you mentioned a few times about acquiring smaller labs. Is that a business model that you're using? I mean, is that obviously working out for you? Yeah. We've merged. Um, we've acquired or merged a number of labs in smaller labs. Uh, we've done it locally. Um, that's actually how we got our location in Milwaukee as well. So it's been reasonably successful. Yeah. So we definitely have learned along the way what what to look for in advance to make sure they're doing what to make sure they're not doing, and really coming down to making sure the culture is fit. Um, because you bring the people in. Right? Correct. Yeah. You acquire labs that's within a reasonable driving distance. Correct. Because Chicago's got a lot of labs. They used to come up here to visit them with pre. And it was a busy day or 2 or 3 because there's so many because you're driving a big I'm sure a big radius right. Yeah. Yeah. So you just get kind of like local ish and just merge them in and give employees, give the owners and their employees a new job. Yeah, that's pretty much that's been what's been the most successful. Um, as a business, we don't want to. We don't see a big benefit to having two locations very close to each other and carry an extra overhead. Things like that. So where it makes sense is to bring them in, rolling them into our facility and then being able to put them on our, our programs and our yeah, you know, our and they can still communicate with the accounts that they brought. Mhm. Absolutely. Are you still in the same location. We are still in the same location with the above the parking, the above the parking lot. Yes. Yeah. It's like a weird thing where you look up and. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a cantilever over the parking lot. And so you can actually drive under us if you, if you come all the way through. I'll never forget this, because I was working for Preet, and I was trying to find your lab. And you don't have, like, a sign, I don't think. Nope. Yeah. So that's a problem for people that are looking for labs. There is one up front, but not a big one either on our. The secret is to look in the windows and look for the back of a case pan. And that's what I saw up in the window above the parking lot. And I was like, oh, that's the lab up there. There you go. That's great. That's a that's a salesman right there. Are you still doing sales? I'm not doing it on a daily basis. Um, as the owner, certainly always doing sales. Of course, the customer relationships are. Some are where I need to spend a lot of time on. Yeah. Um, probably need to spend more time there than I am. Yeah. And a lot of them would probably a lot of people would probably say that, but not on a daily basis. What do you mostly do? Just run the lab? Yeah. Oversee operations at the lab. Oversee the big picture. You're there every day. There every day. Yeah. Um, in and out of the lab, trying to be, you know, again, trying to maintain those relationships, making sure I'm. I'm seeing our biggest customers, making sure that we're we're troubleshooting. We're doing the right things, helping support our sales people, support our production team. It's. I mean, every every owner knows out there knows it's a it's a never ending, never ending job. And there's a lot of hats. So. All right. So the question is what's easier football or a dental lab. Oh you know, I, I was thinking about it as I was walking over here today and I thought that's the talk that I should give is why is a dental lab like playing professional football? Oh, there you go. And I started framing some ideas around it. But do you have aspirations to get on stage? Um, I love talking. I think you'd be good. Yeah. I love public speaking, and I've done it to youth athletic groups. I've done it to college or to coaching groups. Yeah. And obviously getting in front of the company and doing those type of things. So, um, yeah, I'd love that would be a great analogy for just our industry. Yeah. Having that up there. Yeah, absolutely. There's some old pictures of you. Yeah. There's a lot of parallels. I mean, being being an athlete and being a business owner, I mean you've got to have resilience. You've got to have persistence. You've got to work ethic. You've got to have a plan. Yeah. You know, and when you get knocked down, you have to get back up. And you wake up every morning stiff and it hurts. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a little different now. You know people ask if I miss it. I said I miss it every day. My body doesn't miss it. Yeah I bet, but the best part of of playing football was the time in the locker room. You know, the time with teammates, the time traveling, the games on the planes and stuff like that. It's got to be a tight knit. Yeah. Friendship family almost. Yeah. Because you're all going through it and and you're all sacrificing your body for, for the one goal. So yeah, it was it was again, great experience. And there's a lot of parallels to to what we're doing in the data lab every day. I want to see you at Cal Lab in a couple years. Yeah, maybe even next year. Yeah. There we go. I think we should do this. I think it would be great. Yeah, I need to work on that, uh, that talk, but that I think I think, uh, there would be a lot of valid and. And a lot of points that people would. Would appreciate and enjoy. I love the idea. Matt. Thank you so much, man. Awesome. No problem. Yeah. It's always great seeing you at these meetings. Yeah, you're a good dude. You got it. You got. I love what you're doing with your lab. Cool. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Man. Yeah, yeah. Have a great night. Big thanks to Liam, Tom and Scott and Matt for sitting down with Elvis at Cal Lab. I'm super sorry I was unable to be there, but I hope that you will all come back next year and get a chance to say hi to me. I always feel kind of bad when somebody that has to work with Elvis more than I do, but it takes a special someone to have to deal with him. And I commend you on your efforts. I have to deal with you almost daily. So I get it. Almost, but not as much as Liam. I've known in a lab and Tom for a while, and it was great to finally hear the story and how he has good people like Scott to help that lab succeed. And I agree that Matt definitely has original story we have not heard before, which is always a first on our podcast. So as the chair of the Colab Association, I would love to talk more to Matt, actually about being a speaker at Colab next year, talking about the similarities between dental labs and football. That sounds extremely interesting. Would that be a good one? All right, everybody, that's all we got for you. And of course we will talk to you, the team, and we hope you had a happy Easter. Bye. I am awake, I am alive, and I am alert. The views and opinions expressed on the voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guests, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or voices from the bench, LLC.