Hello, Voices of the Bench community. This is Casey Baldwin with Ivoclar. If you've been curious about fast-firing zirconia to improve efficiency but aren't convinced it can deliver predictable, high-quality results, I'd encourage you to connect with us. Our new IPS, EMAX Zirconia, offers multiple fast-fire protocols designed to help you save valuable production time while maintaining consistent outcomes. Time is money in every lab. Don't wait. Reach out today and discover how IPS EMAC Zirconia can help streamline your workflow.
So Barb, an overdue congratulations are in order.
Oh my God. What did I do now, Elvis?
Didn't you all recently announce the Simply Arch studio?
Yes, we did.
That's awesome. You know that's right up my alley there.
Of course I do, yeah.
And just for anyone who hasn't seen the announcement, what is this Simply Arch thing?
All right, so Simply Arch is our dedicated full Arch lab. So it's high quality. Full Arch cases are a big big part of what we do, and we wanted a team and a dedicated workflow and a production environment built specifically around them.
So basically just no distractions.
Exactly. Just a bunch of full arch nerds doing full arch things.
Oh God, a bunch of nerds. Sounds terrifying.
It's never terrifying of it.
And does a new studio also mean new toys?
Yes. And of course, we recently brought in Xterra mill as part of the project.
Hell yeah, nice.
Yeah, and then of course came the cam decision.
Ah, here we go, the old cam decision.
You know, Elvis, we tested a couple options and of course we landed on Hyperdent.
Like Hyperdent, just as easy as that, huh?
As easy as that, pretty much. The quality off the machine was excellent. So that means also no hand finishing and the mill Milling times were excellent also.
You're right. That does make the decision quite easy.
But honestly, what really stood out to us was the testing and implementation process.
How so?
You could immediately tell these guys live in a world of high, complex milling challenges.
That's got to build a lot of confidence.
You know what? It really did, and it really does. They weren't just showing us how the software works. They were advising us on the best way to build an entire workflow for our lab. You could tell they've done it a hundred times, guys.
That's a whole new different level of expertise. Well, congratulations on the new studio, Barb.
Thank you. Hats off to my dad for the studio, so it means a lot to me.
Aw. Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info at voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 434 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
My name is Barbara. Still.
What's up? Still Barbara, how are you?
That's my quiet Barbara. It's Sunday. We got this wonderful weather off our coast. It's been raining all the time, but I'm good.
How are you? Talk about nice weather, 'cause here it's hot, humid, sticky, and gross by noon every day.
That's pretty much Florida, except it's really hot and really sticky and really humid. So there you go. There's that voices from the Bench weather report from Elvis and Barbara. I got a little Yorkie that just jumped on my lap. Hi, buddy. Aw. He's saying good morning. It's only 930. So yay. So what's happening?
No, not a whole lot. Just working, cranking through the summer, trying to drum up some business, trying to handle the business we have.
Trying to crank up the summer at summer. For those of you that don't know, Elvis is back running summer. Yay. And he has no time, just like me now.
So it's perfect.
So we're doing this on a Sunday. So there you have it.
Yes, ma'am.
Happy Monday. All right, talk to me.
Absolutely. This week, we're back at the GPS Digital RPD booth at the Florida Dental Laboratory Association Symposium, where we sat in the coldest room in Florida.
Yeah, no ****.
I don't know what they had going on, but Jesus, like a refrigerator in there.
I'd like to see their electric bill.
Yeah, You would think the hotel would be like, let's not waste all time.
Like literally ******* money away on air. I've never been that cold. But anyhow, moving on.
It's insane. But we, again, we really want to thank GPS for hosting us and having, do you remember the amazing alligator skull on our table?
Hell yeah. The one you told not to touch and not to break? Yes, dad.
Yeah, yeah, I was really worried about. Don't break it, Barb, don't break it. So first up is a conversation with two people and then a third will jump in halfway through. So Chris Bradley from Smile Line USA and Rich Wadzinski comes on to talk about an amazing device called the OpniShade. Apparently, there's a way to electronically take a shade and have software tell you exactly what colors to mix to get to the match exactly. What's cool about it, it doesn't even matter what system or restoration you're using. Right. But then the two start talking about Creation Ceramics that's sold by GC America, and Don Roninger sits down to talk about this Gucci of ceramic systems.
Gucci, nice word. Then we meet in Florida all the way from Canada, Mr. Kava Shams. Kava comes by to talk about his love for Zircon Zon. He attended dental technology school in London and worked at a high-end lab and fell in love with the Zircon Zon system. He tells us all about his journey to become the Canadian branch manager, how they have evolved from a closed to an open system. and a really interesting multi-disc mill, and a super intense military-style course for only the best of the best guys.
So join us as we chat with Chris Bradley, Rick Rodzinski, Don Rottinger, and Kava Shams. Voices from the bench. The Interview. All right, FDLA 2026, the maker of all things sexy brushes.
I love that.
Chris. I don't remember your last name.
Bradley.
Bradley. Chris Bradley comes back to the podcast. You were on. It's been a while.
It was right after COVID. It was about a year, like the end 21.
Yeah.
It's been too long, though. Welcome.
It's great. And you're still doing smile lines. Smile line. USA, growing, doing great things.
I see you everywhere, by the way.
Yeah.
I hope that's a good thing.
It is a very good thing. Stop following us. And then Richard, what is your last name?
Wodzinski.
Wodzinski. Good Polish boy.
Yes.
High 5.
Nice. Richard Wodzinski, tell us your story. How did you get into this mess?
I had some family in Europe. They're dental techs, oral surgeons, dentists, and then loved art. Uncle had a dental lab in Chicago. Worked for him for the summer and.
That was that.
Got into dental tech school in Iowa.
A dental tech school.
Well, he's an RG as well. He's got like 10 ribbons. But one of them is to recognize.
Yeah, in Iowa City, there's a dental tech program.
Is he still there?
Yep.
I didn't know that. When was this?
2002.
2002 is when you went through school. Was it a two-year program?
Two and a half.
Two and a half. So.
We talk a lot about European programs, but what's it like in the US to go through?
So first is all entry, like education, about the history and math and all that, and then doing the lab sites. Yeah, exactly math. I never would have graduated. And then doing the lab side in the afternoon, and then second year was all lab, and doing some minor things with speaking and English and all that, and then interning at the last half of the year was your last grade was... working at a lab, or I worked at the Hospital of Dentistry of implants and facial max surgery. I wanted to do dentures and removables and fix, so I ended up doing that and working, making fake noses and all that crazy stuff.
Oh, you even did that. That's cool. That's fascinating.
And there wasn't digital back then, was there?
So they were getting, there was a milling machine there, but not yet. They were getting into it.
Milling machine, but no way to get the data to it, no way to design anything for it. Someone bought the whole cart before the horse. I think that's what I'm saying, yeah. So, where did you go after that? I mean, did you stay there for a long time, or just for your internship?
I went there, internship, then moved back to Chicago, moved to Florida, and then worked for... which was Americus DSG.
Oh, are you in my area?
We're in a Tampa Bay race hat.
Oh, cool.
So I worked there, then left, worked for a mom and pop's place, Yoshiki Dental Arts, or Yoshiki Dental Studio.
Yeah, I know them.
He passed away, I left, and then I worked for Strep and Brum for five years, 5 1/2 years.
Those guys are crazy.
So you did all BL ones for a couple of years?
Full arches, yeah. All BL ones, yep.
This is what, they do a bunch of bleaches.
Yep, that's all they do.
Clearwater white.
Clearwater white.
I've never heard that. That's awesome. He's a local boy. That's cool.
Yeah. So you were doing full arches then. I mean, just.
Hybrids, full arches, everything.
Is that where you're at now?
Yep.
Still doing that?
So I own my own lab. So I have my, I have two labs, two locations. I have my removables that I do, and then I have my fixed digital.
So you stayed with the removables, That's great.
I can't get away. I love it.
You're awfully young to be doing removables. Just saying. How do you guys know each other? How are you affiliated, I should ask?
Sexy brushes.
Yeah, that too. I saw them and I was like.
It's the only thing I go with.
So true.
We went to a trade show for the dental tech program. They were like, there's a LMT Chicago meeting. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. And I love the brushes, the way it looked. And I talked to Chris in 2002 and then we just became friends since then. We've known each other since 2002.
Wow. So what was the first brush you got from her?
So I got another, a #8 regular tip. Clear handle Kolinski with the little.
Kolinski, you taught us that meant natural. I remember that.
It had that little, on the clear handle, that little Murano glass. Yep, on there.
Murano glass.
It's a Murano glass decoration that they made in Switzerland.
Yeah, still have the brush, still have it with all the replacement tips. Yeah, that's my thing. I love that.
Yeah. So we just have been, he's been a great customer and a friend and over all of the years. Yeah.
So you're speaking. Yeah.
What are you doing here? I mean, you just got out of a course, didn't you?
Yeah, we did a OptiShade, the Matisse. We did the OptiShade with Creation Magic Color.
Wow.
On a single tooth central like Zirconia. Yeah.
Wow. Hands on, yep.
Sweet.
How many people did you have in the course?
Seven? Seven.
Seven.
That's what hands on. Awesome. Yeah, it was good. Got everybody to do everything, got everyone able to check the tooth, make sure the shade was good and matched, so it was nice.
And using all smile line brushes, I'm assuming?
Yes. But really the concept of the course was the Matisse software. And the Matisse software generates the recipe to match a single.
Wait a minute.
And talk about that.
What the heck?
I've never heard that. So we've had a volunteer in the class, and we actually matched somebody in the class. It wasn't like a paint by number. We had everybody had to match it, and Richard led the class.
So what is the software doing? How does this work? Is it like a scanner?
So there's a little, like a little camera that you put into the patient's mouth, focus on the tooth that you're...
You rest it on the tooth.
Yeah, you place it against the tissue, you take the photo, and it dissects the tooth at the cervical, middle, and incisal. It gives you the recipe, paint by numbers, to not mix these colors to get this. One-to-one portion. So it's like, if you're using... say the creation it says one portion of HLT1 and then one portion of this two portions of this in the middle third and it literally breaks down everything into.
And it's like spot on yeah.
And you mix it you fire it you mix all the colors after you get the little ingredients you paint it on there fire it and then you can take the camera again take a photo and it pops.
Does it use, like, does it say if you're using this porcelain, use this. If you're using this porcelain, do this. So it directs you in the different porcelain systems.
Every porcelain system, every staining glaze system. They have everything. They also do.
It's not standard in every office.
How did you find it? Okay, so OptiShade was developed by Smile Line, actually by Style Italiano and manufactured by Smile Line in Switzerland. And it was originally manufactured for dentists to do composites for anterior composites. And they found, they partnered with Murat, who's the owner of Matisse. He developed the Matisse software. And they coordinated the two together. And the Matisse, so they're two different companies. So Smile Line USA sells the Matisse software and then the Smile Line products, but they go hand in hand. So the hardware is the OptiShade and then Matisse is the software. Well, Matisse, it's been on the market for six or seven years. They originally had like 4 porcelain systems. Now they have another 30, yes. And they have, The systems, if you're gonna do monolithic, if you're gonna do layered, wow, you tell it how much space you have. I have 0.8 millimeters. That's genius. This is my framework. I'm starting with an amber or a prime BL1. That's my coping I'm starting with, and then here's my target tooth that I'm trying to match. You put both of those in the software, and then I'm using... This porcelain, say I'm using GC Lissy or I'm using Magic Color. Like today we use Magic Color. It gives us, it generates the recipe. And so...
How do you get the software? You just buy the software from Smile Line.
Take it into your...
Yeah, from Matisse. Got it. And you download it and then you can do custom shades or like for our lab.
Yeah, they have different versions so you could get like... Only lithium disilicate, if you wanted to focus just on that, or you could buy 3 programs, whatever, or you could buy the full year subscription of everything, so, and now it just came out with a pink system, so it actually.
Colored, you could do gums.
You could do gingiva, yep.
How much does this thing cost?
How do I find you? Seriously, I'm not kidding, I need that. Because we do a lot of single centrals and we do a lot of custom shades. I'm in your area. We have patients that come in.
But you've got to get the doctor to use.
We've got like 5, six a week now. Do you have to get the doctor to use?
You use two.
What are you going to do?
Now there is Shade Guide AI in the Matisse software system. So if they send you a photo with a shade tab, you can utilize that within the software to determine. And you can use that information to generate a recipe if you don't have an objective photo.
Tell the shade tab in the picture.
Scan it reads it, right.
It reads it.
So then it figures out if your printer wasn't great and you didn't, it wasn't perfect, but it.
Balances it to the shade guide. So it's judging what it looks like in your picture. Yeah.
What it does is it looks at the shade tab, which is really a shade. It's. And it tells you the colors of the shade tab. And then it tells you the colors of the natural tooth based on value, chroma, and hue. So it's the science of the LAB colors. So it's, and Richard has gotten to be an expert on the system. And that's why he was teaching the class today.
So if I have it and I have a patient come into the lab and I'm doing a custom shade, what am I putting in the mouth?
So it is, it's literally almost like that mouse. And it has a calibration cap. You take it off, you place it against the tissue. There's a line on the camera that you put exactly center of the tooth. And you physically see it on your OptiShade program on your phone.
And then- Oh, it goes to the phone, nice.
So you can see the placement of the camera to the tooth. So you want it centered. and then you just click it and then start reads. It reads that.
So it holds it like 30 seconds in the patient's mouth or not even.
Not even.
It just, you set it up. One of the other.
And you just disinfect it and use it again, right?
Cavi wipes. You don't want to do anything. Just wipe it down and that's it.
How quick do you get the recipe?
Probably.
As soon as you plug in the photo to compare, it breaks it down.
Just like instantly. Yeah, it's cool.
So one of the other things, the OptiShade is actual, it's a polarized lens. So if you imagine taking a lens out of a Nikon camera and then put polarization on it, that is what is taking the picture. And then the OptiShade app has the algorithm to read the colors. And then that goes into the software and the software says, oh, this porcelain system colors is what we're going to generate to make this person's tooth.
Interesting.
So if you're using Emax, mostly, you can just have that software.
Emax, everything.
If you're doing multi-layer zirconia, you can do both.
Even implants.
So like for us, we're doing both.
Everything.
Wow. Seriously, how much does this cost? It's crazy. Do you know? That's what it sounds like it should be, honestly.
Well, do you, is it like a one-time purchase or is it like every year or how does it work?
So the software is like software. It's about, for the full system, there's different levels, but for the full system, it's about $1,200. That's it. for a year. If you want just to do, if you're just doing monolithic staining glaze, right? And you're all, a lot of laboratories are just going, because paint ceramic right now is what's hot.
That's what we're doing mostly.
The monolithic is $30 a month for this software for monolithic staining glaze.
Wow.
Yeah.
So do I call you or do I call them? Because I'm in.
Yeah, you would contact Smile Align USA.
Okay.
And that includes the thing that goes in the mouth.
No, the OptiShade is a camera.
Yep.
So polarized lens out of a Nikon. So polarized lens and the OptiShade. The OptiShade app is free, but the camera runs 2400.
It should though.
For what it is, the same dog is worth it so much.
You have the software.
I'm so confused.
So you've got to buy both. in order to use it.
You explain.
So I have, so what I did was I bought the camera and the software. I go to the office, charge them, however, to do that. Custom shade fee. I have a doctor, actually, I was flying to Washington to do the shades like that.
From where here? To Washington State for a shade.
Yeah, because all the.
Stay a couple days and see the mountains.
That's. Well, yeah, yeah. So it's a haul for shade. What's your charge for a custom shade halfway?
I would pay. So he would pay for hotel. I paid for airfare and he would. It was $500 for the day. Wow. It was 30 minutes I took.
Yeah.
So it was that way. And then we did 7 cases like that.
All in a day. Yeah.
And all cases went in without any shade adjustments, any sending back, paying $105 for next day error or any of that.
And very good, well said.
He ended up loving it and he's like, I'm buying one.
So he buys a camera.
So now he gives you the recipe.
He sends me his OptiShade photo and I have the. The model with the crown that I milled in Zirconia, I could take that and match everything and go from there.
So you buy software and you can tell all your doctors to buy the camera and it all comes together.
You can.
Yeah, that's the way to do it. They should have some skin in the game.
Well, if they're in Washington, for crying out loud, I'd be like, all right, invest in this camera. It's going to save you over time and you're going to nail all your shades.
I mean, it will pay for itself and just remakes. Oh, 100%. I mean, right up there.
Especially Signal Central. You got to do four or five of them.
Mini singles. Yeah, and singles are not a profit center for laboratories. They're not. They don't like them. And this concept of using the OptiShade, the polarized photo, and then the Matisse software helps. It's still difficult to be a high margin product. It's not like an all on X where you really can have decent margins on it. But it definitely improves the margins on singles, especially if you're not doing remakes. Because if you get it the first time, yeah.
Doctor's happy. They're saving chair time.
Patients love it.
Patients happy.
Word of mouth, this was the easiest appointment.
Yeah, plus though.
You're starting with the recipe, so you are not starting from, well, maybe I should add a little bit more blue here, or maybe I need to add this opalescence to get this translate. I mean, you're starting with the recipe, so you've already cut the time down in half.
Do you guys supply a link to the camera or is it the software? How does, how do the two of them come together?
She wants to know. She wants an Amazon order button.
Well, you can.
I'm just saying. You.
Can. We do sell as a bundle deal where if you purchase the Opti Shade, you get the Matisse software included in that and it's at a discounted price. And that gives you the software, the full software system for one year. And then at the end of the year, you can pick and choose, nah, I don't need to have the layering in front framework. I just want monolithic and you can then go down to a smaller version.
But you can market that too. You can be like, we're the best single central lab in the country now because we're just nailing them. I mean, you could get a higher fee, a custom shade, and lower remakes.
I love it.
I gotta have it. Just saying.
Anybody ever send it to you with a second mole or something? No. That's the kind of question Elvis would ask. Geez. I need this perfect.
I would. I know you would. Sweet.
But yeah, Creation North America Dawn, she was also a sponsor for the course today. And we use the new Magic Color. Magic Color is new on the market.
So Creation is the name of the broad company.
That's the ceramics, right?
Porcelain.
And Creation is owned by GC.
Yeah, Willie Geller.
So Creation is owned by GC Willie.
Geller. The stain is called magic color.
Magic color. Yeah. And is it like the popular ones that are coming out that's liquid ceramic now? Is that what it's called?
So the magic color isn't a liquid ceramic. It's actually a powder base and you mix it yourself.
Yeah.
It has more intense colors.
Okay. Have you ever used it, Barb?
No. But we're just switching headgear here, guys.
Oh my God, it's Dawn.
Don was like, damn it, man, I thought I was going to escape that. I was in the clear.
Chris went and grabbed her like I do.
I said, door bumper clear.
Get your over here, sit down and talk to these guys.
I like that.
Don, remind us, what's your last name?
So I am Don Roniger. I work for GC America.
Oh, you've been with them for a while, haven't you?
14 years. Yeah. Nice. Yes.
We shared a boss.
Todd.
Todd, yeah.
We did. Todd Larson. Yeah. Yes, we did.
So you're here supporting. Richard, and doing the course.
And teaming up with my line with Chris.
Awesome.
But I have my creation hat on for this. So as some of you may or may not know, Jensen no longer sells creation porcelain. It is now distributed by GC America. So a lot of your GC reps are also your creation reps. When did that all happen?
Recently.
About 3 years ago, just after COVID. And so now we are the sole distributors. We sell it direct. So you don't buy it through a Nowak, a Patterson, a Shine. You buy it directly from GC. It's the only product we do direct, but we still handle all your GC products. So that's why it's fun when we do these meetings with Smile Line and with Rich, We can do initial with GC, or we can do magic color with creation. Wow, and the customers have their choice.
I was just gonna say you get a choice.
What makes this creation different? I mean, is there something that stands out to it?
I would have to say the name. The Willie Geller name, oral design guys. Yeah, I mean, we.
Talked to the new president, Javier.
Yeah, we talked to him in Mallorca.
Yeah, he was awesome.
Very nice guy.
Well, I have to mention, this weekend is actually the Willie Geller Memorial.
Oh, yeah.
It's this weekend.
It's in Japan or Tokyo or...
No, it's in Italy.
Italy.
He tried to bite us, but I'm not dude, I had to fly around. He was an icon, so yeah.
I would love to go, but... So I would say the creation is a name brand. Yeah, for sure. It's your Gucci, your Prada. Oh, I see.
I wouldn't know anything about that.
That's how I like to look at it.
If I did, I would know what she was talking about.
Right.
Yes. Amazing.
Yeah. Is it set up like all the other ones where there's 400 different colors to choose from with all these weird names? Or how does this system work? I don't know much about ceramics.
He's not a ceramist.
So the nomenclature is actually almost identical to the GC initial systems.
Oh, interesting.
So enamels are like E57, 58, 59, and 60. Cool. There's four of them.
Yeah, that's so much easier.
Is it easier?
Yes, actually. Do you have a number?
A1, A2, A3.
But I've never heard of E shades.
E is enamel.
Yes, whatever.
D is Denton.
D is dork. He'll come to the party eventually.
I refuse to learn.
That's sweet. So you guys do these courses together?
You hang out. You're there all day supporting.
This is our first one together. So this was our trial, trial and error. And I think it went awesome. So I'm looking forward to. Is this your first?
Course you've ever done?
No. Together. No, together as the three of us.
Did you see all his ribbons?
Yeah, there's a lot of ribbons. You're sweeping the floor and walking everything.
Good for you guys.
That's fantastic. So we're looking forward. We're going to plan to possibly do one down in Miami at Alex's lab. Oh, that's sweet. Good job. And now that we have Mr. VP here.
I know, Congratulations, FDLA board.
Yeah, we'll do more with the FDLA and try to support those guys because they support us.
I love that.
Does that mean you're president next year?
Yeah, you're in. Isn't that scary? President-elect.
Yes.
I mean, FDLA is no joke. I mean, it's the biggest in the country.
It's a lot of work. You have to be, you know, committed and focused and it's awesome.
So congratulations.
I would love to see this grow. and be like it was back pre-COVID, right?
At the old Sheridan.
You were the fifth person that said that to you, so I feel like that.
The Renaissance. Yeah, the Renaissance.
No, before the Renaissance, the Sheridan, where it was across from Disney Strings.
Yep, I remember that.
I was at the one that was across from SeaWorld.
The Renaissance. That's the one I remember. Yeah.
So you've been here a while. It's been a while.
We've been coming to these meetings for like 5 years together, probably. Good job. So you guys got to put together the meeting next year now. That's your next.
So, Alex is president and I'm vice president, and then after that I'll be...
All right, so it'll be your show. Why do you get involved to begin with?
Alex.
Oh, really? You guys are good friends.
Yeah, he was like, Dude, no, he was voluntold. Yes, he's like that.
Let's make this great again. I was like, Ah, man, let's do this.
I know him and his wife.
Yeah, Danielle, they're awesome. Sweethearts.
Proud of it.
And I think Alex and Rich both have really good support from us, from the vendors and from the people, they use all our products. So it's great to support them as well.
So you're going to have a booth here next year?
So I cannot make that call only because I'm not the Florida GC rep.
Oh, I see.
However, I would love to have a creation booth here and have possibly Rich doing demos or another hands-on course or hands-on booth demos like we like what we do in Chicago.
That would be awesome.
You got his flight. I'll pay for his hotel. How do you want to do this?
You've got the larger number.
You notice I jumped on flight. I know that was brilliant. I think it's a direct flight from Italy to Orlando, right?
Spain, I think.
Orlando, probably, yes. Well, thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you for having us.
If you all don't know, this is both of our first times.
Oh, really?
Yeah. I've never done the podcast.
You guys popped my cherry.
That's right. That's awesome. You don't take that out. That was genius. Awesome. Well, thank you both. Thank you.
Good luck to you.
Thank you for having us. Thanks. Awesome.
That's all. I don't want to wrap the fire. FDLA 2026. A gentleman came up to me and said, He hates our podcast. What's your name, Sarah? I never even called it.
My name is Kaveh.
Kaveh. Let me see the whole thing. Yeah.
Kaveh Shams.
Yes, I am the branch manager for Zircon Zon in Canada.
Wow, Canada.
Yes.
What the hell are you doing down here? Is it colder here or is it colder in Canada?
God, let's not go there. This winter we had a really harsh and long winter.
Did you? Oh yeah, I had some friends up there that were like...
We had a snowstorm. Yeah, It was long, cold. In the last few years, the winters were... Quite mild. But this one made-up for it.
So tell us about yourself. How did you get into industry? How did you hook up with Zircon Zahn? I love all that.
Why are you from Canada and Florida? What the hell?
How come they chose you?
Which is awesome.
But that's for later. Okay.
So I'm a dental technician. I studied dental technology in London, UK. So you went to.
The, what do they call it?
Uni.
Uni.
Yes, uni. Nice. In London. And I finished my course, I graduated in 2009. And by pure chance, I got a really good offer from my mentor in a lab in central London, in Harley Street.
Well, when you say your mentor, in school, you had a mentor.
I had a mentor at school because my course was a part-time course. So I had to work in the lab and study at the same time. So I had to spend three days in the lab and two days at the college.
So you met somebody that mentored you in the lab? Yes.
Somebody we would know.
Not really. I don't think so.
You know everybody.
I don't. We've talked to some people that own some labs in London.
His name is Mr. Nadeem Kerban. He's one of the best technicians that I ever met in my life. I'm very grateful for the knowledge and wisdom that he gave me. And I worked there for nine years, and it was a fully...
Nine years, yes. All analog, or were you doing digital?
So he reached out to you and said, Hey, come work with me.
So I had to choose, so I had to find a placement in a lab. So I had a list of labs that you could go to. Yeah, I had to call them. And many labs don't have time for mentorship and apprentice internship. Although the government was giving them some... break on the tags and they were supported. But at the same time, if you're a busy lab and you have tons to do, you don't want to meet a student that doesn't know anything, you have to start from scratch. And.
It's hard to train someone knowing you're not training an employee too. It's like, what am I doing?
Absolutely. But it was a small boutique lab, really high quality in Harley Street, London. And then he started teaching me everything from Scratch.
It was mostly analog back then.
All analog. All analog, 2009. And so I worked there. I learned the basics. I started doing wax first, like every other dental technician I started in the plaster room.
How much did you learn in school? Did it actually help you?
It did. A lot of theory did we learn.
Sure.
So the chemistry, as we know, dental technology is the combination of our Chemistry, physics, engineering. Engineering. So that's why you never get bored. And also he taught me how to love my work. I really love my work. And then as Zirkonzon, it was 2015. In the UK still? Yes, I'm still in the UK. And Enrico Stegger, the founder of Zirkonzon, comes to UK. We know that now.
You don't say no? Is that what you're saying?
No, exactly. So he comes and he has a lecture. And I was amazed with what he had to say because he was one of the first, I mean, Zirkonsan was one of the first companies that got into digital dentistry. I remember. So he, at the time, he created his manual milling machine.
It's a package thing. It's like you get it all and it's all inclusive.
All inclusive. And then later on, he got to CAT CAM. the story with Exocad, how he got to know the founders of Exocad, and they developed the software, yes, for Zircon Zan first. So, our Modelier software is an Exocad-based software.
Yeah, because originally Exocad was not going to be sold individually to the public. It's like it was packaged and you could rebrand it. Absolutely.
We took it first. Zircon Zan, they worked at Zircon Zan headquarters for six months. They developed the first version of the software. Then, later on, the year after, Amman Gearbach started using their platform, and as you said, there was nothing as Exocad. Yeah, nobody knew what it was. It was just a platform for designing, and it was very smart because you could do a lot of things. You could modify the software that works for your environment, even if you look at our model here and compare it to Exocad. There are similarities, but it totally looks totally different.
Interesting.
Yeah. Wow.
Okay, so the founder of...
Yeah, he was there.
So how did he find you? Or he did a course that you went to.
He did a course. I went there, I mean, with my mentor at the time, and I fell in love with what he had in mind and what he wanted to create and what he already created. So there was an opening for UK. But at the time, they wanted to open an office in the UK. So I applied for the job. I got two interviews. I passed 2 interviews. So it was successful. And then Brexit happened. I don't know if you guys remember.
Yeah.
So 2015, Britain voted to get out of Europe. So that was a huge disappointment for me because I had a British passport. And then the HR of Zerkonsan says, we don't even have any regulations to hire you. So that opportunity was like, I was gone at the time.
So what'd you do, stay where you were at?
And I was really disappointed. I had a lot of many friends and family members in Canada. So I traveled a few times to Toronto and I really liked the country. So I moved to Canada in 2018.
It takes a lot of balls to do that. I mean, that's a long way.
It's difficult.
Not only are you switching nations, but like new jobs.
Everything. But I was lucky again. Before I moved to Canada, I worked in a milling center. So that was the starting point of my digital journey. I started from the back side of it, like the ending side of the workflow. So I started learning about milling, CAM, and then I went to the design and then the scanning. So you did it all the way around.
*** *********.
Yeah, maybe not.
So when you went to Canada, you already had a job lined up with Zircon Zahn?
No, that's the story there. So I started working as a CAD/CAM specialist. For a company in Canada, I really liked my job. My job was to integrate different components of the software, of the workflow together. So the company was providing the scanning components and then design components like Azure CAD. So my job was to see what the customer is required in their environment and just integrate the system the way that it works for them. Then I got myself into milling strategy writing So I know how to use Hyperdent, Mailbox.
I love Hyperdent.
Yeah, we love that. And I started writing strategies, custom strategies for customers. And I used to go to trade shows.
What do you mean custom strategies for customers?
So let's say you have a part in your mind that you want to produce, and it's not something that you can just drop it in the nesting software and get the result. You need it to be done, but with this surface quality, within this time, With these tools, so you come to us and say, okay, you know what, I have this in mind. How can we produce it? How can we make it?
Can you figure out how to do it?
Yes.
Are you doing this outside of dental?
No.
This is all inside dental. Interesting.
Is it a software thing?
It's a software. Hyperdent allows you to write the strategies. Wow. And yeah, our success was because we custom made the strategies for our customers. So it wasn't a generic. Software did we offer? Obviously, we offered that to many customs. It was custom, yes. As if you were going to a tailor to get a suit and a dress.
That's an analogy, yeah.
So it was very successful, and I was attending trade shows with my previous company, and by pure chance, Zirconzant was always next to us. And I used to go and say, hey, I'm an admirer. I really like it. And one time the son of my Enrico was in one of these straight shoes and he was like, how do you know so much about Zircon Zan? Have you ever had Zircon Zan machine? I said, no. So how do you know so much? And I told the way. Yeah, I was just a fan. Just a fan. I know all the lectures that Enrico did and I follow him everywhere. You know, I listen to him. He's my idol mentor. So he said, how about I get him, I get you an interview with him? Do you want to join Zerkosan? We have an opening in Canada. We have a branch, but we don't have a representative. I said, sure. Ding, ding, ding, ding.
I went down this road in England, buddy. Don't disappoint me.
I told him, I told him, I said, I had an interview this state, this state, with this HR manager. I said, wow, so you've been chasing this opportunity? I said, yes. And they invited me. Enrico invited me. They paid for my ticket. I went to Italy in South Germany.
Oh, you went to Italy? Yeah.
So you went to like the home base?
Yes. Wow. That's fascinating. And I sat down with Enrico for two days interview.
For 2 days.
Yes, I mean on and off with different people and him. He would take me to... Yes, I think I had like 8 informal interviews with different people. God, I could not do that.
I mean, all the jobs I've ever had is you just talk to one person, you get the job and you move on.
But it was joyful. And in the end, he said, what do you think? I said, one of my dreams came true. I wanted to sit down and spend time with you. And whatever happens, I still win. That was one of the things that I wanted.
Way to butter them up.
Exactly. That's a great answer. That did. And yeah, it was true. I was really happy to be at Zircon Zan. It's a magic land. I always say Zircon Zan is Hogwarts of dental.
How big is it there?
That's cool. The company, relatively a small company. So we have like 400 people working in the headquarters in South Tyrol. If you see the picture That's where we are.
You got to be kidding me right now.
It's a beautiful place. And our buildings are, as I said, magical. There's a music playing there. There's a smell into it. So it pays attention.
There's a vibe.
There's a vibe. And we have a really strong knowledge base. So we are, he's a dental technician. Whatever that he comes up with, it has roots in dental. And he developed a lot of patents. In Zirconia, he was one of the first people that developed Zirconium. With Vita and Ivo Clark. So he's been around and he's done a lot.
He's still with the company there every day. Absolutely.
That's fantastic. He comes and sits in his lab. He has a lab in the headquarters and all the young people and apprentices are there around him, learning. Watching. This is an interesting character. He knows a lot. He knows a lot. And yes, he's very active. He comes to the office at 8 A.m. Good. Yeah, that's cool. I'm blessed. That was my journey with Zirconson. Now I'm in Canada.
Well, so wait, so you said.
One of my dreams just came true and I got to spend time with you. And then what was your other point? Because obviously they hired you.
But you got to finish that thought for me. Yes, of course, yes. So I came back to Canada. I think 3, four days later, I received a letter, an e-mail saying that Enrico accepted. you and you're going to start working. So it was tough because I really liked my position at the time with the company that I've been working with. My old boss is here. Oh, really? Yes, he's here.
That's nice.
He is one of the nicest people that I ever met. He was really supportive of my ideas and he knew how much I love Zircon Zan. So when I came back, I said, I think I'm going to leave. And he was like, I knew it. I knew it. He said, Zircon son? I said, Yes. He said, I would have been upset if it was anything other than Zircon son. So he was really supportive. We still see each other. I was talking to him just 10 minutes ago. And yeah, since then, I think it's been... Five years, almost five years that I've been representative of Canada.
So what is your role now?
I'm a branch manager, but at the same time I lecture.
Do you still get your hands in it?
Absolutely. Not as much as I want. Because I have a lot of...
Because that is your first love.
Yes. And I missed that part.
Yeah, I bet.
But my job now includes a lot of different activities. Trade shows, I have support.
What the hell are you doing down here?
Yeah, how does a guy from Canada get this meeting?
It was a request from our US team.
Because they like you.
And I do webinars, probably yes, obviously. I do webinars, monthly webinars, so I know many customers in the US, their customers. Enrico said, why don't you go with the head of support to this symposium, FDLA? I've been here before with my other company. And I said, yes, for sure. So I see a lot of customers coming here. I answer their questions. Sometimes they want to do something and they don't know how to get there. I try to understand the requirement and offer them the components and the solution. So that's why I'm here. And so far the show was okay. Cold, cold, cold. That's so cold. Oh my God. I'm glad you brought that up because I'm chilling. And I'm wearing this and this. I'm still freezing.
It's cold. I got a hoodie on. It's cold.
Yeah.
So now on Thursday said you brought a hoodie to Florida. And I'm like, yes, I did. That's what I thought.
And I was like, should I take something? Like I'm going to Florida. I took this only for the airplane because airplanes are also super cold.
It's very true.
So Zircon's on. I know it as you buy the package, it's everything kind of inclusive. Is that still the model of the company now?
We started that way. And the reason behind it was first, there were no other components available when he came up with his digital workflow. So he didn't even think about, oh, I'm going to be working with this scanner or this camp. That's why he created this environment that was all inclusively his air concern, including the material, tools, software, scanning. But now, in the last few years, we understood that you cannot stay inclusive if you want to open up to different labs.
That's very true.
And in each lab, You cannot just say, okay, I have zero concern and I'm okay. I can do everything. No system, in my opinion, as a dental technician can do everything. No, you still need this, you still need that, you still need printers, you still need a lot of components. So we started opening up to the idea of integration. And now you can have any components from us as an open system, meaning that if you buy a scanner from us, the outcome of the scanner is a CLOBJ Pl. Wi-Fi. If you purchase a machine, you can let us know if you want to use our consumables or you want to use your own.
Awesome.
So, if a lab just needs to replace a mill, but they still have the scanner and the design and all this, you can still get Zircon Zon. You don't have to buy the package.
Absolutely.
That's a good thing to know, because I really didn't know. I thought you had a good.
When did they change it?
It's been like 3, four years after COVID started opening up.
When the world changed.
Yes. And It makes sense.
It does, yeah.
I have customers say, hey, you know what? I have TreeShape. I've been using TreeShape for design, and it's a big lab. I'm not willing to switch all my trainers or designers to a different software. Yes, I'm willing to try your software, but I really like your machine. Can I get the machine? Because it's super accurate, in my opinion, and I worked with different companies in the past, milling manufacturers. It is one of the most accurate machines. The way that Zerkonzan built the equipment is that the philosophy of Zerkonzan is that, first of all, I send the machine, I created a machine that is suitable for delta technicians, not CNC engineers.
Interesting.
That's a great point.
Enrico designed the machine. So the machine is simplified CNC machine to the point that a dental technician, he realized that the dental technician needs to focus on what they have to focus on, which is making teeth, not calibrating the machine, not writing this and playing with that, doing R&D, fixing it. So the way that we built the machine is, first of all, is a modular system, meaning that if you have the machine and you say, hey, I have a spindle issue, We send you the spindle with instruction, somebody on the phone with minimum technical knowledge, you can change the spindle yourself, which is huge. Yes, a spindle orbit, the main PC. I always tell my customers, if we are going to send or create a lab, dental lab on Mars, it has to be equipped with Zircon Zone equipment. Because it's modular, you can take it out, you can replace it, you don't have to open up.
Some of these old machines are nuts.
Absolutely.
It always reminds me of the time when I found out that I have to take a wheel off my car to change a headlight. And I'm like, what the? Are you Siri? It's just a simple thing. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. In some of these mills, you got to take it halfway apart just to change something that you know you're going to have to change.
Exactly, to just get access to it. And his philosophy, Mr. Schegger's philosophy, is that First I need to make a machine that doesn't stop. Or if it stops, the technician can repair it. So I don't have to send technicians.
Or we have to ship it back?
Yeah, that's such a pain. It's the philosophy is that he wants you to, we want you to continue using the machine without the need of too much maintenance.
And we all know that if a machine goes down, your productivity is gone. Like you stop. You don't produce money.
Everybody's, you know, Everybody's angry.
Everybody's ******.
So he created this machine. It's very easy to maintain. The latest equipment that we have, we have M1, which was one of the first machines, M5, older machine, M2 and M6. Recently, we introduced M6. And M6 is a machine that has a disk changer.
Oh yeah, I was going to ask that. Yeah.
The interesting part is that you can connect 3 M6s together and create a tree machine. And the carousel stays in the middle. So you can feed the carousel that goes up to 80 blanks. So all three machines can get. From the same carousel in the middle. So imagine if you have a Mercedes-Benz logo.
I see. So you have three machines.
You got to be.
Pretty smart to do that though, don't you? I want to know what lab's doing that.
We have one lab that is very interesting. So we released this machine last year. So it's relatively new. We have in Germany, we have two labs that are. Using it, using it this way, that's a organization, yes, but in US, we have a lab that is very interested to use it, and they've been our customers for a while, so we can trust them with this, sure, yeah, awesome. What about Canada?
Got any labs in Canada using it?
Not the M6D screen. You need to get working up there, man. Absolutely. So I have one customer, we have an installation next week for the first M6 in Canada, but he's getting the 18 exchanger default. But you can always change that. So if you add to it, you can add to it.
Yeah, that's cool.
You can change the carousel. So it starts with 18, and then you can have the 30 and then 50, and then you can connect two together. And then you can add the third one. So you can scalable. It's scalable.
Yes. I love that.
Big time.
Do you do dry, wet, all those?
It does both. Dry, wet, titanium, chrome, cobalt, abutments. Wow. And PMMA, we've been working on our denture workflow. Everybody has his own denture workflow. The difference that we have with other companies, we have a polycarbonate material. So it's not PMMA. the difference between polycarbonate and PMMA is that PMMA has monomer and polycarbonate has really very little monomer. So for patients that have allergy to monomer.
I mean, monomer is not a good thing. I know. Yes, true. We've all been down that road.
So we have that system. The good thing about our M6 and M2 is that instead of only being limited to 98 millimeter diameter disc, Zircon Zaner started with 95 millimeter. That was our original disc.
Interesting.
95.
It's a little bit different than everyone else.
Exactly. He always wanted that. Yeah, So we started with 95, then added the 98 millimeter, and then he came up with the idea of telescopic orbit. So you can have a 95 millimeter, 98, 106, and 125 millimeter.
What the? I didn't know they made them that big.
So we have 125 millimeter disc for PMMA.
Holy moly.
You can get minimum two bases out of it.
Two bases in one puck.
In one puck.
That's insane.
Yes. And we have 106 millimeter titanium disc. So you can get multiple bars out of it. And you still want to go with your 98 standard. You just, and it's very easy to change this telescopic orbit because you replace it. The main part, the main components is 100 twenty-five.
Change something internally, and.
The machine tells you, Okay, you're selecting ninety-eight millimeter, please replace your ninety-five to the ninety-eight, and that's it.
You shift it and it's done.
I love this. Yeah, this is fascinating stuff. Are you think you're going to get into printing or are you going to stay in the milling field?
We've been always stronger in milling.
Yeah.
We've been a milling company for a long time. For a long time. But now we're realizing that, yes, we have to shift. There are advantages about printing versus milling. We are doing some R&D. We're releasing some resin in Europe. We're working with a company that we don't want to, first of all, so far, whatever that we provided was in-house, made in-house.
You guys make everything.
Everything.
Oh, interesting.
We don't outsource anything. Those machines and everything are produced in Italy. Wow. In Italy, yes.
Italy again. Yeah.
Everything. But for the printers, he realized that it's too late to really start developing something from scratch. Sure. So he's working with different companies in Germany to create his own printer. How soon do you think that'll be? I think by the end of this year, we will have the first version. It's very simple. It's not something really fancy. It does the job. It self-calibrates. I saw the first version of the printer. It's really easy to use, just like any other components.
Just what you want.
Yeah. Wow.
Fantastic.
Where do you get Zircon? You get it directly from Zircon Zon or this is dealers.
We don't have dealers. I mean, we do have Dealers in countries that we don't have the branch. Sure. So US and Canada, we have the branch. Germany has the branch. But let's say Spain, we have partners there. Yeah. Usually partners are the labs or biggest labs that we work together, and they also support our other customers. Nice.
Where's the branch in the US?
In US, Atlanta. We have an office in Atlanta, in California, Irvine, California. Wow. And New York, we have a small office in New York, Manhattan.
And that's just for sales and technical support.
Technical support, sales, showroom, education, mainly for education.
Interesting, yeah.
We're huge in education. Have you heard about our military schools?
Military schools.
No, tell us about it.
So if you search Zirconzan Military School on YouTube, you can see videos, very interesting videos. So Enrico started this program in 2016. So he goes to the big dental schools around the world. To the last year's students. He tells the teachers that you can pick five of your best students. I invite them. The course is free of charge. They stay here free of charge. We feed them. You can send your teacher as well. So each group has five students and one teacher.
From all over where?
All over the world. We just finished the, I think, 160. finalized the 160th course. So we have done 160 military school. Wow. This is a one week course.
A whole week.
A whole week.
And where is it at?
In Italy again. In South Tyrol in Italy. Northern part of Italy.
How can we go?
I want to do both. And you know what he told me? You're too old. I said, Too old.
He told me. So they want like younger generation technicians.
Yeah, they're at a school. Get them in and teach them all. Third year student, you go there, they give you an army looking shirt and an outfit. You stay in tent, obviously, and indoor, but you sleep in your tent, you have your own washroom, you wake up at 5:00, you do some workout.
Cardio.
Yes. And then you do community work.
It's like military.
Yeah, it feels like. And the lab and the machines are all. have this military pattern. So you wake up, you do your community work, making cheese. You know, it's a lot of farms around there. You're kidding me. Yeah. And by 8 o'clock...
When do you do dentistry?
From 8 o'clock to 1, you do dentistry. And you go from start A to Z. You don't focus on one part of it. Let's say denture. You start from the beginning. How to take impression, how to do the temporary, how to try it with the patient. All those processes. So each day you focus on one part.
One skill.
One skill.
One skill of skills.
Yeah, and then you have your name tag. You create your name tag like, yeah, like the army. And then in the end you nail your name on the board of honor.
Oh, I bet you there's a ton up there.
Oh yeah, you should see the picture of all the names there. And then if the best person or the best student of the group is chosen for Ranger School. So the Ranger School is a three months course.
Three months.
Best of best, go to the Ranger School. They stay there for three months. Yes, they're top notch.
So Zircon Zahn's doing this?
Yes.
And they don't pay for it.
No, it's free of charge. Yeah.
What are you getting out of it? I mean, other than making better dentists. How does that like, I mean, what is...
So many of those Rangers stay with us. After 3 months as employees.
Interesting.
And they are fantastic.
So they found the best of the best and then they kept them.
Yes.
So those were going to be dentists.
Dental technicians.
Technicians.
Oh, I thought these were only dental technicians.
No, dental technicians. And yeah.
So like you're breeding your own future?
Yes.
Pretty much.
That was the idea of Enrico. he's big in education. He's a big supporter of education. Many of them, you see them around. Sometimes I go to a trade show, they wear this t-shirt after so many years.
They're the elite ones.
They work for other companies. They still have the zircons on with their name, as you can see my t-shirt. They have their name and they still carry that with pride.
They should.
That experience stay with you.
I mean, you make a week through that. I mean, waking up at 5 to make milk or whatever.
Yes, and then three months and three months they do really good. dental work. When they come out, they're experienced technicians, young, but talented, experienced technicians. And all the labs, most of them, they... Once they find out, they're like, I want that guy. Yes, Most of them are girl.
When you were back in school, did you try to get into this?
It wasn't available. Yeah, I think we started 2016, we started.
But he's done 106 of them.
Yes.
That's a lot of.
We stopped for a while during COVID, but now, so every month we have.
Oh, every month we do this a week.
Yes, Two, three groups are there. We have six schools that are in the mountain on like high attitudes. It's a beautiful scenery. I bet. You just go there, you wake up, the smell of forest, it's amazing.
And then you go run.
Then you go make cheese. So I am blessed that I can go there twice a year. Oh, nice. I go once in Christmas and once in summer. I get training. I get to sit down with all the mentors. So great. And the best of the best and Enrico himself. That's awesome. Yes.
You're spoiled. That's a great story though.
It is great.
Yeah, if you search, if you go to YouTube and just search Zircon Zan Military School, you'll see. Yeah, we're going to check this out. Very nice videos here.
Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much, man.
Thank you guys. Thank you. I always ask, how do you pronounce your name again? Kaveh. Kaveh. Yes, Kaveh Shah.
Thank you so much.
Thank you guys. I really like your podcast. I've been following it and I'm driving, I'm listening. So thank you very much, guys. Absolutely.
Thank you.
A big thanks to everybody for joining us at the GPS Digital RPD booth at the FDLA show in Florida. It was really cool to hear about the OptiShade. And as somebody that spends pretty much their whole life doing single centrals, it seems like a game changer and I am looking into it by the way. So go check out smilelineusa.com to learn more. It's also great to hear that one of the first CAD/CAM systems that started, which was Zircon Zon, is still relevant today and actually coming out with amazing solutions for dental labs.
That buildable multi-disc changer seems cool.
Yeah, it does.
Check it out, guys.
All right, everybody. That's all we got for you. And of course, we'll talk to you next week. Have a great week. Bye. Don Rodinger, Rod, Rod, Roninger, Ron, Ron, Ron. The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.