It's time to start assessing your equipment for next year John Wilson: Hello, my friends. John Wilson here. Speaker B: And. Hey, it's that time of year again. John Wilson: It's time to start assessing your equipment. Speaker B: Needs for next year and make some. John Wilson: Purchases on behalf of Uncle Sam. Speaker B: While I'm here to tell you that. John Wilson: My friends here at Ivaclair have really. Barbara: Sharpened their pencils and, are offering. John Wilson: Some of the best deals of the year on mills and furnaces. As an owner of several of these. Speaker B: Great pieces of technology, I can tell. John Wilson: You firsthan that you won't be disappointed. We'talking about robust and dependable on machines. Barbara: That make you more efficient. John Wilson: We certainly count on them daily here at sunrise. So do yourself a favor, make that call today. You'll be glad you did. Elvis: And of course, we appreciate Ivaclar for their continued support. Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email@info voicesfrohebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Alvis: I'm excited for episode 350 of Voices from the Bench Greetings and welcome to episode 350 of, Voices from the Bench. My name is Alvis. Barbara: And My name's Barbara. 350. Elvis: Isn't that crazy? What a nice little milestone we hit. Barbara: I was just thinking that. Congrats. Elvis: I'm actually more excited for episode 365. Barbara: Why? Elvis: Because that means someone can listen to an episode every day to take them a whole year. Barbara: Wow. That's pretty profound. Elvis: Fifteen more weeks will be there. How are you, Barb? What's happening? Barbara: I'm good. I'm decorating my tree. It. Elvis: Oh, there you go. Barbara: I did the lights, and now I'm putting the bulbs on, and then I'm going to go for a run, and it's my birthday, so then we're going out to dinner. What up with you? Elvis: You got a lot going on this weekend? Barbara: Yes. Elvis: Yeah. nothing that exciting. no tree will run, no birthdays. So do you do a tree every now and again. This year I was convinced to get it out of the attic. So it is up. It is decor. Barbara: Come on. That's fantastic. Elvis: It's probably the first time in about three years, though. Barbara: Yeah, you are a little odd in some things, but in a good way. Elvis: Depends on who you ask. Barbara: I don't know if you can be odd in a good way, but if you are, you're definitely that person. Elvis: Well, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But you know what? All this cold weather, it honestly just gets me in the mood for next year. John Wilson: O. Barbara: and we're going talk about that. Elvis: Yeah. Once I start putting on the winter coat, having to defrost the car. I start thinking about Vision 21. Barbara: Yeah, man. Elvis: It's coming up. We're getting close. It's January 16th to the 18th at Caesar's palace in Las Vegas. M Now, we don't go to this show and record just because there's so much great content. And we actually go just to hang out with all the attendees, our friends, our compadres in the industry. We just love seeing everybody. Barbara: I know. And what about Joe? Joe? Joe Young. He's president. Elvis: Yep. So Joe Young from Young Dental Lab, he's gonna be inducted as president of the nadl. So if you've never been to this show, this is a good year to go. We should all go and support Joe. Barbara: Right on. Elvis: And then right after that, about a month or so, we all gear up and head out to LMT lab day Chicago 2025. Barbara: I'll be there. Elvis: Of course you will. You better. Barbara: Well, registration opens on December 12, and of course already we are hearing about some of the programsep. You and I will once again be in the Iva Clark Grand Ballroom pretty much most of the weekend, recording anyone and everyone that's willing to or that I go and grab talk to us. And as you know, or you don't know, Iva Clark is going to celebrate 20 years of Emacs. That's crazy. That makes me feel old. But I'm not old. So. Elvis: Young at heart, Barb. Young at heart. Barbara: But they're already filling their speaker room with some amazing talent. So, guys, register Lab Day Chicago, February 20th to 22nd, and if you want to come see us in the Ivaclar. Elvis: Ball, even if you don't want to come and see us. And of course, as always, Ivaclar, thank you so much for hosting us and all your support. We love that location. It's just such a great spot. Barbara: Oh, and so much energy and just vibes and oh, it's just the bomb. The bomb. Elvis: Such a great thing. Des recommends we talk to two people in dental lab who benefit from DES products So over the years, you know, we've talked to many companies or vendors that are within the dental laboratory space. At least 300, a lot. We love to hear the story of the company and what they're doing and really, most importantly, how they can help technicians and lab succeeds. Now, recently, Julie from DES reached out to us about being on the podcast. Now, I'm pretty familiar with this company because at the lab I'm at, we use a lot of their products for our full arch cases. Now usually when a company comes on, we talk to the CEO or maybe a sales manager, which is great. We love to Hear from everybody. But DES wanted to do something a little different, and we actually love this idea. John Wilson: Hu. Elvis: So Des suggested that we talk to two people in our industry that believe in their parts and the workflow and find out how they benefit from the DES parts. There's actually nobody from Dess on this conversation. I know. Barbara: It was great. Elvis: Yeah. So the crazy part is her suggestion was actually two past podcast guests who, even crazier to us, have never met in person. Barbara: Right. It was a great dynamic. Elvis: Yeah. It's such a good conversation. Jimmy Steagall and Sorro Haorszian discuss dental equipment So first up is Jimmy Steagall, who is now doing his own thing by doing what he loves best. Called Here to Serve Dental. But also join the conversation as the CEO of Alien Milling Technologies, Sorro Haorszian. Barbara: Good job. Elvis: close enough. Close enough. I think he would accept. Barbara: Very impressive. I do too. Elvis: They both update on what's going on in their lives since the last time they're on the podcast. But then we dive deep into the world of abutments and tie bases and over dentures and screws and all the other parts that desk has to offer. Barbara: For which you were geekon out. on again. Elvis: I love this stuff. John Wilson: I know. Elvis: It's so out of all the things to be into. Speaker B: Yep. Elvis: But what we like is here's a guy that educates other labs and another guy that runs a busy milling center talking about why they choose deaths for all their implant needs. So join us as we chat with Jimmy Steagall and Sorrow Haak Corian, Voices from the Bench. You've never met Jimmy; you're starting a podcast The interview. Barbara: So you guys don't know each other? John Wilson: U. Speaker B: no. Never met Jimmy. John Wilson: What? Elvis: That's how we're starting the podcast. What? You've never met Jimmy? He's a staple in this industry. Are you kidding? Wow. Speaker B: I'm sorry. John Wilson: He got really popular after I got out of the lab. That's what it was. I ran a lab for 30 something years. Sorry. So I would know him well if I was telling the line? Elvis: Probably. That is crazy. You guys never met. With all the meetings I've seen both of you at, that is nuts to me. Well, in Chicago, we're gonna have to have a coffee, all of us. Speaker B: Let's go. Elvis: Excellent. Barbara: Let's do it. Barb and Elvis welcome two past podcast guests to the podcast Elvis: So Barb and I are really excited today because we have two past podcast guests to come back, not only just to really update us on what they've been doing, because you're both doing a lot more than what we first talked, but to talk about your relationship with the DESS and all their parts and pieces. So let's welcome to the podcast. Jimmy Steagall. How are you? Barbara: Hello. John Wilson: Hi. Elvis Hopar. better not deserve I'll tell you. Barbara: That, young man, I say that all. Elvis: The time and I think you said that last time. So are you better than last time? John Wilson: Yeah, I'm always nice. Elvis: And also joining us from Alien Milling Technologies, which is crazy that you were on over four years ago on this podcast. I just. It's just crazy how quick that time went. And I'm gonna butcher. Last name Sorrow. I've already. What is it? Barbara: Let him say it. John Wilson: Let him say it. Speaker B: Let's go, Elvis. Elvis: Oh, come on, man. Sorrow. Speaker B: Hot of cor. Of Corz. Elvis: I knew it was there. John Wilson: There. Elvis: Sorrow Hotakorian from Alien Milling. How are you? Speaker B: Amazing. Good morning. Elvis: Yeah, it's super morning for you out in California and I appreciate that. Speaker B: Worries. Hi, Elvis. It's great to be back. And Barb. Hello. Barbara: Hello. Elvis: Awesome. Barbara: Good to have you. Welcome, welcome. Elvis: Yeah, let's. The Alien aligner is now launched for labs Let's get an update on Alien because nothing's changed as your company or your position. You're still CEO of it. But what's Alien'been up to in the last four years? Anything. Speaker B: O man. To be honest, I would have to open up our news, channel or news page just so I can go over what we've done. I lose track. The latest thing. I know just because it's so much. It's so fresh. It's only been like a week. Is. The Alien aligner is now launched for labs. So they can, upload their files. We can print it thermo format, cut it, label it, and even package it with their own logo on the ortho liner boxes and ship it out to them. So that's one of the latest things we've worked on. Barbara: What kind of an undertaking was that? I have to addus theignr. That's a hot topic right now. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker B: Ah, it took about a year and three months. And, most of it, was my fault for taking so long. It could have been done in six months for the FDA approval, but I just sat on the project for an extra five months for no absolute reason. Just trying to find time to find, you know. Elvis: I think you were making a movie, weren't you? Speaker B: There was that too. There was Molar City. That thing was planned and shot in less than like nine days. Elvis: Seriously, that was well done story. Well done. Speaker B: Yeah, that was very fun. last minute casting, everybody pulled through. We got really, really good quality talent for some. You had the worst actor, which was me, as an extra backer. I don't know if you guys saw me in the movie, but hopefully I did okay. Elvis: You only stood out because I knew you. Speaker B: Oh, perfect. They told me to act shocked and I pretended like we dropped a full arch case. And that's s all I can think about. Elvis: That's a good one. Barbara: That's for sure. Elvis: I think when we talked to you four years ago, it was all about zirconia and milling machines. Is that still a bulk of what you do? Speaker B: Yeah. So, we're milling service first. That's the bulk of what we do. Machines were kind of stepping away from that. We had a great partnership with vhf. I, really liked it. But we decided to part ways. We decided to focus on what we do best, which is just milling services and selling zirconia disks. But now we are getting into the aligners and we are gonna be getting into more into software and helping labs become more efficient with some new software coming out to help them just manage this whole digital transition or even the digital workflow going forward. Not even the transition. People are way past that. But going forward and making, you know, their digital life way easier, is making it more efficient. You'll be seeing lots of cool software coming out soon. Elvis: Can you hint at it a little bit? Yeah, that sounds pretty exciting. Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, managing cases is one of the biggest hurdles that we see. Not just labs, but even ourselves, you know, our technicians here having to manage all the digital files coming in to make a little platform to organize them really, really well. We're using it here now. Once we work out all the kinks, then we're going to publish it to, for everyone to use it to say, you know what? Okay, it helped us become super organized. Here you go. You can have it too. You can be super organized as well. Elvis: So it's just like case management software. Case management software for digital scans that they're getting in Speaker B: Yeah, case management software for digital scans that they're getting in. Elvis: Oh, so it's geared towards the digital aspect of it. Speaker B: Exactly. I can brief a little bit about it. Basically right now, if you know your doctors or whoever they send you some cases, you got to log into that specific portal downloaded. So we're working on a single portal that you log on and you can, access all of those scans from all the different intro roles out there. You know, so it's one general mailbox, if you will, m one general inbox and you can update the status and of course it relays back to that intra oral portal with your status message. Right. It's been downloaded it's been shipped, it's been whatever, whatever the case might be. Elvis: Nice. Barbara: That's really good because I cannot tell you how many times like scans just disappear. Speaker B: You're relying on your email, right? If that thing goes to junk or if it just never comes through because sometimes it happens, then you don't know there's a case. So what do you have to do? You have to log on to like seven different portals, right? And like, oh, let me check if avenue case. Well, enough of that. That's that's really's. That's a bad way to do it. So now you log on to one and then you see all the different ones, just piling in there. And then, as you download them, you can mark them as downloaded and they disappear from your like, inbox, if you will. They go to archives if you ever need to download it back. The cool thing is the files are on our server, so you can download somero portals, like cut you off after like 15 or 30 days, right? They're like, okay, you can no longer access this file. Well, with ours you'll have like a free storage, I don't know. We haven't decided on how many gigs it will be, but let's say we give you like 15 or 30 gigs. After that, it would say your mailbox is full. You can either upgrade or you can delete your old files to free up some space. But if you upgrade, maybe you'll get like a hundred gigs or maybe a terabyte for like a small fee a month. Barbara: Right? Elvis: This is really nice. Speaker B: So you don't have to delete your cases. Elvis: Yeah, yeah. I love it when offices would call looking for a case and you tell them you never got it. And then why didn't you let us know? And I'm just like, excuse me, how am I supposed to let you know I didn't get something? And it's usually because it's sitting somewhere and you just nobody acknowledged it. I love it. Barbara: Yes, that's exactly what happens. Speaker B: And the cases do. And all that good stuff and last minute you're like, okay, fine, let me rush this, let me download it. You know, can you send it again? I don't think that's, you know, I don't think that's very, efficient. But if you had one general mailbox, you just log in every morning and your team logs in and they see all the new cases, they download them. You can get notifications on your desktop. Let's say it's going to Be great. Elvis: That's not. Barbara: So you're kind of like the Glidewee of software. So you realize that you needed it for your company and created it for your company, and now you're going to offer it to the industry. That's pretty awesome. Speaker B: Exactly. I see like what can make our team more efficient. And our team is not that different from any other team in the dental lab industry. Right? I mean, we're all the same. We're all doing the same thing event like at the day. So if something we need, we see it. And I'm sure a lot of people, you know, a lot of other people can use it to or benefit from it. So. Barbara: Y. Yeah, because we accept files from like, you know, six, seven different companies and I can't tell you how many times, like, they just get lost and then the client calls and they're pissed and you just missed it. Speaker B: So, and the training that goes with it, right? Each one you have to. There's a small little learning curve. It's like, okay, for this software you got to go here. For that software you got to go there. If there's just one software that gets all of them, all you got toa do is authenticate yourself when you first log in, right? Cause you gott connect each one. Once you authenticate yourself, then it becomes one one workflow for all of them. Elvis: That's pretty exciting. I imagine it's going to have a cool alien name. Speaker B: Now we have ioscans.com reserved, so that's just the, like the project name. But we'll probably come up with a better name once we're ready to launch. Elvis: You guys are always good with the alien names. Keep keeping the team together. Speaker B: Elvis, do you have any ideas of what we should call it? Elvis: not on the spot, but I'll get back with you. Totally. Jimmy. How are you, sir? ###y Great, man. John Wilson: Absolutely having a blast, bro. You spent seven years with Dent Supply primarily teaching and training on digital dentures Elvis: You've had a lot of change. Last, time we talked to you, you were Mr. Dense Supply, speaking for them. And now you're here on your own and you're here to serve. Tell us all about the change and. John Wilson: The transition, you know, after, 37 years in the lab. And then I was seven years with Dent Supply, primarily teaching and training and mostly around the digital dentures. Over 150 lectures or webinars a year. That was great having a ball. It's fun. But always plan to at some point, work towards doing more what I want to do. And I had planned for this at the end of last year and with the overall goal of maybe within a couple years. But about mid year things just fell in place where it seemed to be the right time. So starting in May June I started my on own firm. I'd already set everything up but I just started with the goal of just continuing to do the same. Just doing lectures and for labs and companies, trainings thatt supply still uses me, I'm still an independent contractor with them for the training on the Lucidil. Elvis: I noticed that, that you still are doing it for them. So I mean hey, at least you didn't burn any bridges. John Wilson: So it was certainly great. I mean obviously the seven years with them, you know, set me up for this and I owe them a lot. And I tell them my calendar'always available to them and they've been very good to me and I've just booked 20, 25 classes with them. So yeah, they've been a great partner and will continue to be. And so I thought I'd continue to do that. And then what it allowed me to do was to offer to labs that had been asking hey, can you come to my lab and train me directly? And thatadly we were just too busy at Dent Supply. We couldn't. Christie and I, the two only trainers we had to start doing them at the academy because we just couldn't get to everybody. This has allowed me to have that opportunity again and I have booked many of those with some of my friends in the lab industry. So spending a day or two at labs working with their teams on not only digital denture but other things. Right. You know, I grew a 12 million dollar lab so maybe I can answer a few questions. Barbara: Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. So do you specialize when you do that in the digital dentures and then you can kind of pivot? John Wilson: Yep, yep. I've done some consulting on just the operational HR things, sales and marketing. I actually got to work with the lab group with their sales and marketing teams from all their labs which was great for me because that's kind of where I spent some of my period sher denal lab. So it's fun to get back to that. I love that aspect of how to talk to Dennist on behalf of labs and that's been fun. Speaker B: Right. John Wilson: And that's what I've been doing. What has really surprised me though is the number of companies that I've partnered with. I have developed some really fun, some really exciting. It's not being tied to Diply directly has afforded me the opportunity to work with other totally the same areas. Gosh. wow, this applies. Great. Des was the first one that reached out and said, hey, we're working on building our brand in the US and you use some of our stuff. And I still do some cases for university friends and some clinical trial things. And, I didn't know a lot about deaths, so they were the first partner. But, gosh, let me tell you, this list of folks, this just blows me away every time I look at this list. Asga, Evident, Harvest, Cadflow, AI, Ivory Guide, Rebel3D, GR3X, Myerson, Zah, Henry Shan, Canada, Zimbus, Wagner are all partners with Here To Serve Dental. And guys, it's just been a blast. It is absolutely fin. Elvis: You're probably speaking more now than you were with Dent Supply. John Wilson: Oh, no, I'm not. I have control of my CAL now, so I can say no. And I don't say no often. I love it. I love what I do. Right? And that's what makes it so fun. Right? I love talking about digital dentures. I love speaking 150 times a year to dentist, watching them get excited about doing dentures again. I love seeing technicians learn new skills and see a lot of hope for our industry when there are alternate ways to do what we've been doing and do it more efficiently. So all those things just make my life just a true joy and benefit. I mean, the only thing I'm missing is, you know, I don't have to go on somebody else's behest all the time, so I can kind of say, you know what' Blocking three weeks off in December. So, no, I'm sorry, I don't have anything there. Elvis: You goah. Barbara: That sounds like a dream. Speaker B: Honestly, that sounds like a luxury. Yah. Barbara: Being in charge of your own calendar and your own time. Like, God, I'd like to take three weeks off Elvis. Elvis: no, this podcast is not. Speaker B: Stop. Alien chose DES over other implant component companies after extensive research Barbara: So how are you and Sarah's company affiliated? Is there an affiliation there other than deaths, or is Dess the affiliation? John Wilson: Dess is the affiliation. I'd love to talk about it more because I'm sure I can help spread that message as well. But no, it's all Dess. I mean, Dess. My connection with them started early. They reached out early, like I said, know some of those folks, and they wanted my assistance to help them kind of spread the word and build the brand. So they contracted with me to do some videos they're going to be using on their website and social media, doing Some lectures for them, got a webinar coming up Monday for them. But it afforded me the opportunity to study them more because I was totally ignorant about their capabilities, their reputation, their quality. What blew me away. And yes, I know that you guys got to go over to Spain as well. But it was my first trip to Spain. I got to go see the deaths factory. And I'll honestly tell you my opinion of deaths before that visit and before this partnership. It was just a pretty good aftermarket implant parts, right Generric, they make them for everybody. And honestly didn't have a super high opinion. It's just a low cost option that we had. But guys, I spent a couple of days over there and they showed me all of what they're doing and I saw the manufacturing, I saw the unbelievable quality control and inspections they go through and 180 degree turnaround. these guys are top notch. And as he's already said that they make some stuff for folks we don't even know about. And so I saw some brand name packaging that kind of blew me away that. Oh, you make that? Yeah. They're not by any means a cheap copycat clone. I mean they are cloning company for sure. But their stuff is definitely high end but still really affordable. So I've been thrilled to be able to use some of their parts, talk about some of their parts and tell lab guys about the advantages of hey, this could really make your full artch workflow better and it costs less. So. Hey. Elvis: Yeah. So sorrow at Alien. You almost use exclusive DES parts, right? Speaker B: Yeah. I mean I was thinking we did the transition back in 2021. I had to Google it and look at our own news feed. Looks like we started in 2022 so only to. But it feels like a decade, you know. And it was probably one of the best decisions we've made to go with this. We're very, very happy with the parts. They almost. They have all the implant components that we need. They have, they serve as majority of the brands that our customers request and we have all of it in stock. So I mean we have so much DESS in stock before that we used to use NT trading up until you know, whatever happened to nt. And we interviewed I think like five different implant component companies and DES was the clear winner and I'm very, very happy with that decision. We have a great relationship with des, with the DES USA team and also Death Spain. So wow. To me, it was, it's been great relationship and so happy with it. So happy they they have so many cool components from angle to straight to engaging, non engaging. The prem mils, now the angled prem mils, they're just coming out with new innovative products and a lot of people, you know, whatever is on the tip of people's tongue, they look like they're listening and they offer whatever we're thinking about. DES is an implant restorative component manufacturer. So they're actually manufacturing the implants Barbara: So dumb it down a little bit for me because I'm not quite certain I understand. So what is DES like? Explain. Speaker B: This is an implant restorative component manufacturer. Now they're actually getting into implants too. So they're actually manufacturing the implants. So I just saw this recently, like maybe a month ago or two months ago. But what they're famous for is making all of the components that labs need. So for example, you get an impression in or a digital impression in and now you need the parts to restore that crown with some implant components. Well, you open up des'catalog and you say, okay, how should I tackle this case? Should we do it with a tie base? Should we do it with a prem mil abutment so we can make a custom abutment for it? is it a bridge? Should we get some non engaging tie bases? So this has all of those parts. All you got to do is type in what implant it is. For example, it's a h oin regular connection, right. 4.0, 6.0. You just type or you just click on that specific implant brand and size. And now you got all of these components presented to you. And now you can get really technical. You can get very creative and really give the patient the best outcome for that. Why? Because there's so many parts available for that one single brand and they serv service probably like over, I don't know, I think it's like over 25 brands that they service. Wow. John Wilson: Yeah. Speaker B: So it's a one stop shop. You don't have to call that specific OEM manufacturer like, you know, I have to call Strauman and get a tai base. No, you can just go to desk and get it. Now you have to let your doctor or you have to let your labs know that this is going toa be DES parts. It's not going to be a or like original manufacturer. And as long as they're okay with that, then you know you can go for it. But you have to let them know, hey, I'm not using OEM parts. They are third party parts. Barbara: Yep, gotcha. Elvis: Do you get a lot of pushback at Alien for that or do you. Speaker B: Offer both that we're using third party, like best Parts. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker B: No, I mean some people do say, hey, do you have the OEM? And we, I mean to make relationships with 25 different implant companies and have OEM part. Yeah. And it's a lot of inventory that we would have to stock and not everybody requested. So we just see what majority of the people want, which is like over 90%. They're like, you know what, just get us the restoration. Right. We don't really care if it's OEM or if it's death. Just we need our crown back or our implant back for that. This helps us out a lot. It's like we have everything in stock. We only have to deal with one company. We send out one purchase order and we get all the parts in. It makes things super easy. John Wilson: Yeah. Barbara: And probably more financially, you know, good for, even for laughs because you know, if you can go outside those those genuine parts and you can choose something and the doctor doesn't want genuine parts or he doesn't really say, you know, financially I think that's better for the labs and for you guys. Speaker B: And the pricing is definitely more competitive. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker B: for sure. So they're selling convenience and affordability. It's like you're winning on both, you know. John Wilson: Here's one of the cool things about the way they've set this up. Right. We all need MUAs. You're going to need a multi unit abutment for almost every full arts case. And. And everybody makes them. But on the top they're all the same. The inside they have to fit the exact implant. And all that of course is a given. John Wilson: But what DES has done is that the screws to put these multi units into the M implants. Most aftermarket companies create screws that are unique to their system. DES has gone to the trouble to make a screw for every system out there. Meaning that the scre that screws in the multi unit abutment, the top of it, the part where the doctor puts the tool in is the tool that he already has for his system. So if they're doing a strawman and they order a multi unit abutment from desk, the screw they get uses the same toolkit they have for strawman so they don't have to have smart. Elvis: That makes it so the doctor doesn't have to have that O5.0 driver. If they. Barbara: Oh, here we go again. Elvis: Elvis is colle. I think that's cool because I can't tell you how many times I'm helping a keystone case. But the MUA screws are not keystone Yep. John Wilson: Y. That was super smart of them to do that. So the doctor doesn't need another toolkit. I love their MUAs. Their MUAs are. If you look at the straight and the angle, they look like everybody else is s. And that's great. But the screw makes them pretty unique. But they have an MUA they've had over in Europe for a bit. They just released it in the US just a few months ago called the Muaus. And I've done lectures on single tooth implant abutments for a lot of years, and everybody knows my spiel about emergence profile and tissue and health and all that. What they've done with this MUA plus stock part is they've given it some anatomical contours. So it actually has some curves and rotation based on the tooth and size. And so it is not a custom, but it's as close as we've ever seen with an mua. And it's coated with that, what, titanium nitride, I think it is. Do you think MUA Plus will replace the standard MUA It's really. Speaker B: Is that that gold coating? John Wilson: Yeah. Really good issue. Acts better around it, loves it better, not as much. Recession, all that stuff. And they use it on a lot of their parts. And that MUA plus is probably going to make itself known in the market pretty strong because of those things. Elvis: So what they're contoured for, like, specific tooth numbers to fill in more of a, Interesting. John Wilson: So it's not just a straight taper. Right. All the way around round. So it has some ovalness to it. It's got a bend to it. Right. It's actually made to try to fit what the expected tissue contour might be. So more anatomically correct, call it. Elvis: Do they stick with the usual 0, 17 and 30 y? So that's all good. Good. Speaker B: Jimmy, do you think they're doing some sort of like a testing run to see how labs like it? And if it all goes through well and everyone loves it, do you think they'll eventually replace the standard MUA with the MUA Plus? John Wilson: You know, I don't know. I think there's always going to be a demand for a standard MUA because we're so used to it out here. I don't think it'll replace it. You know, maybe. I guess that sales will tell. But, if it's all the way. Speaker B: Like, better, like, right. All around better. John Wilson: Yeah. Speaker B: And there's really no disadvantage to it. If it's just better in all aspects, I would see them just maybe taking, the standard one out and saying, you know what, Give the whole industry, a better contouring and better gingival health. Elvis: anyway, why wouldn't you? Barbara: Why wouldn't you? Exactly. John Wilson: So if you don't use an mua, right. And you want to use a tie base, lower cost option. Their tie basees are not extremely unique, but are unique in a way in that. And most everybody is, I think, heading toward this direction is that a tie base is a straight up and down part, and you need some engaging sometime. You need not engaging. And the screw hole is always an issue with a tie base. Right. A straight part with a narrow channel means the screw is going to be where the screw is going to be based on the imp. No option. Right. But their tie base is unique, and they've designed the internal cylinder so that you can access the screw from up to 20 degrees anyere around 360. And so it gives you some flexibility with even though the part itself is straight, I can turn the hole in the restoration up to 20 degrees off. To take advantage of that on a simple tie base, that really expands your capability. Elvis: But don't you need a special screw and a special driver? John Wilson: Nope. Or again, remember the smart switch screws they make? Same as if I'm making a tie base for a strawman. I'll get a smart switch screw with the top Strauman tool fits it. Elvis: Okay, well, how does a Strauman driver Engage something 20 degrees? I'm confused. John Wilson: Oh, oh, you're right. Yeah, I'm sorry. You're right. It is a, it's kind of a Torquex type tip. Elvis: Yep, yep. Okay. John Wilson: Yep, yep. So you're right. The screw would be different for that, 20 degree angle. Elvis: Yeah. Alien Sorrow uses an angle base for most of its cases Speaking of angle changing, you must do that a lot in Alien Sorrow. I mean, I imagine a lot of your cases use those. Speaker B: Definitely. We get all kinds of cases, and the majority of them we see we actually prefer the angle base right off the bat, just to give our designers that leeway that, you know, you can go up to 20 degrees instead of us trying to estimate, hey, will a straight work on this? It's like, hey, just do an angle base. Because the angle base, you can do a zero degrees. So you can do straight in case you need to. But if you don't, you need that extra 2 or 3 degrees or maybe up to 20, you have that freedom to move. So our standard go to is always an angle base. Elvis: Interesting. I've not heard anyone do that. It actually makes a lot of sense. Speaker B: Because it could do both. You know, it could do straight and angled so why not just go with that product? John Wilson: Yep. Sorrow, have you done any of the. They have a special tase called an ellipta base. It's kind of an oval shaped tie base. Have you used it? Speaker B: So we only use the LPT base for the Bio Horizons 3.0 because they don't make a straight or an angle for the Bio 3.0. So they only have an elliptic base for that. And now yeah, we carry the elliptic base only for the bio 3.0. Elvis: Hey guys, let us in on the secret. What the hell's an ellipta base? John Wilson: It's just an oval shape tie base. It not round. Speaker B: Why anti rotation. Elvis: Oh, so instead of a flat edge, it's just oval shaped. Speaker B: Yeah, you get much more retention or surface retention. So that thing is not going toa spin at all. Elvis: Interesting. How come no one else thought of that? It just makes sense. John Wilson: Yeah. Barbara: They must have one hell of an R and D research development department in Spain. Speaker B: That's what I'm talking about. Their parts that they come out with is just mind blowing. You know, I really like their whole R&D department. Their innovation. They come out with some products that sometimes we don't even think of. But they're geniuses over there. They're engineers. John Wilson: I'll say they've digitized everything as well. So they have libraries for all the stuff. Right. In three shapexocad, you can go to their website and Download all the DME's you need for any of these products. Very good how to guides on the website. So very supportive company. Now another trend is that a lot of folks are doing direct screws Now another trend is that a lot of folks are doing direct. Right. They's foregoing the tie base and screwing whatever they're screwing directly to the implant or directly to the mua. You hear the Rosen screws and the ball screws a lot. They put their R and D team to work and they've developed a screw for that workflow that I think is a better mousetrap. Right. The studies they showed me with the force factor and how this screw affects the restoration that and the forces we don't want or the forces we want. And I think they have designed a much better mousetrap. And so the DMEs for that screw is available as well. So that when we're milling a zirconia restoration and we want to bolt directly to an mua, it's a better, less stressful on the zirconia stronger screw to base. I'm not a huge fan of that. I always like ask. Elvis: I was about to ask you what. John Wilson: You thought about that. They still scare me a little bit. You know, screws to zirconia without a metal connection. It's just worrisome to me. But a lot of people are doing it successful. Speaker B: So we do lots of the 1901 eight that definitely took over, as far as, you know. Elvis: What is that 191 what? Speaker B: Yeah, it. That's a screw. It's called 19018 because their original screws. 19 O 06, that's the one that comes in with, the MUA part. But that's so it's such a small, tiny screw. I'm not talking about the size because they're all 1.4 millimeter. Right. The one that threads in, but the actual like screw head and the screw seat. Not just that, but the length of the screw itself is shorter on the 1906, so you get less gripping into the MUA. The 1901 8, they made it a bigger head, so it's a thicker head and a longer screw. So that has become a really popular choice that we've seen. A lot of people are gravitating towards that best. just like, Jimmy said, this did come out with a brand new screw. It's called the 19 069. And that is meant for direct to MUA. But 19018 still remains the king. I mean, everyone just selects that. We offer both and we see, you know, 90% of the time it's 1901 8. Barbara: Do you guys do any training on that? Like this one's better or this one's different. Speaker B: And this is how, to be honest, I mean, we do zero training. People just, they get their knowledge and they come and they ask us for it and we just follow the trend. Whatever people are asking for, we see the trend and we're like, okay, let's start offering this or that. Barbara: Ye. Excellent. 90% of cases you see or direct to multi unit are MUA Elvis: So you're saying 90% of the cases you see or direct to multi unit? Speaker B: I would say probably, yeah. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker B: A lot of people, I mean, maybe two years ago was on Thai base which was sitting on an mua. But in this last like year, I would say a lot of people are ditching the TIE base and they're going straight time ua. Elvis: Okay, so why not, right? Well, that's the question. I mean, honest answer, are you seeing more breakage or issues or. Speaker B: No, we're seeing less debondnding. That's what the issue high basis was. Like they would screw down. And then after like a month or two or whatever, you know, it Would debond. And we've talked to Bisco and it wasn't just our problem. It was like an industry wide problem. And they realized that, hey, if we ditched a tie base and make a thicker ledge where the screw sits on inside of the zirconia. Ye that should support it better because back in the day the ledge was very small. I think it was like a millimeter. Now, we're getting up to 1.5 to 2 millimeters of ledge screw. Why? Because the screw is longer too, so it can support that Y and now they're screwing it down and we have cases, you know, out there for the past two years plus we haven't heard anything back. Elvis: Sure. Barbara: That makes more sense to me. I mean, you guys know I'm not an implant person, but I mean, how do you bond zirconey a met and how long is it actually going toa last? Elvis: Lots of glue. Speaker B: Yeah, I know with PMMMA'they would pop off right away. So this direct to MUA for like temporaries was perfect. once we made a stronger ledge, once we made a thicker ledge, it was perfect. And then people started saying, you know, let's go with zirconia. So we gave it a go to and so far so good. John Wilson: Yeah. Elvis: So what do you do your PMMAs out of? Are you printing those for the full arches? Speaker B: No, we mill all of our PMMMA's and we have the alien PMMMA, but we also offer harvests, k me which now they call it the dcl. And of course an extent DCL as well. Elvis: Oh, nice. Barbara: All the good ones. John Wilson: Awesome. Speaker B: Oh yeah. Elvis: Jimmy, do you did that convince you to go straight to MUA yet? John Wilson: Not. Not yet, no. I do like, you know, the ones I've seen break have been and the other type of screws on the market that are typically tapered. And the challenge with a tapered screw is that it's hard for milling machines are so variable burrs that you put in them are so variable milling that taper accurately so you have the intimacy of fit of that long tapered screw is almost impossible. So it just. That's what happens, right? You have a little gap somewhere and it moves and it starts to come loose. But what des is designed like you said, this bottom of the screw that interface with the zirconia or the PMMMA is flat and they've made the flat thicker. So between the MUA and the base of the screw, it's a much thicker. And so there's A couple of milling steps you have to do, but it's given me more confidence. And so I print most of my, prototypes out of pmmma but I also mail the harvest DCL occasionally. And yeah, my confidence is rising, but still not there yet. I like a cylinder, brother. I get you. Elvis: I get. Barbara: How do you stay up on all that knowledge? Jimy, you said you loved, uh, digital dentures Jimy, you said you loved, digital dentures, but then you pivoted into all of this knowledge of implants. Like, how do you do that? John Wilson: Well, I mean, you know, I was in the lab for 37 years and we did probably 20, 30 implant cases a day. So I was in front of a lot of it then. Elvis: But back then work, you were still waxing abundance, right? John Wilson: Yeah, shut up. Yeah, I did a lot of U.C.L.A. s. Yeah, no, we were the first ones to go digital and I did a ton of Atlantis and other things. But no, the partnership with DES kind of brought me back into the fold of learning and watching closer what others are doing. And, you know, the time with debt supply also afforded me the ability to work with labs and you see what folks are doing. So that kind of broad based field knowledge, I guess. Barbara: Yeah, it's very impressive from somebody that's not implant savvy. Of course, Elvis is, but I think it's pretty awes. John Wilson: It can be confusing. Speaker B: Yeah. John Wilson: I wish, you know, the numbers that Sorrow rattled off these, these ID numbers, you know, they, they number all their stuff. And I wish it was a simpler for me to understand. I get lost with all the skuss. But I have relearned a lot of the workflows and actually now integrate them with a few cases I'm doing with some of the prostodontas at the school. And you know, DES makes it easy. You just flip the catalog and say, okay, we want to go direct. Well, here's the screw. Here's the part, we want to put a Tai base here it is. One of the other things that I have just thoroughly enjoyed with desk parts is their scan post. They make a scan post for every implant and again, they're tied digitally. So all you got to do is upload the, DME's to your three shape or Exocad. And their scan posts are fantastic. Right. There's no hole in the top, so they scan better. The coating is sort of a titanium nitride sandblasted look. It's got three really good flats. They make a really cool extender for deep sights and it's super affordable. That's the bottom line of all their Parts is that everything is super affordable. But the scan post goes in. You don't need a tool. You just use your fingers. And when you screw in the top part, it clicks when it's fully engaged. But when you take it out and you got to clean it, that top part screws out of not only the implant, but also out of itself so that you can sterilize it and use it again and again. Elvis: So even engaging ones, you screw in with your fingers. How does that work? John Wilson: You just spin it and drop it in and tighten it up. Elvis: Interesting. But it still engages and gets rotation. Yep, yep, interesting't. I can't picture that, but I'll take your word for it. And they're metal, so they show up on X rays. That's huge. John Wilson: Yeah, titanium last a lot longer. Elvis: I can't stand when I go in there and people are using plastic scan box and I'm like, this doesn't work. John Wilson: Yeah, looks like they've been through the dishwasher a couple dozen times. Alien does only receive scans, do people send model work Elvis: At Alien. Are you scanning anything at Alien or you do only receive scans, do people? Speaker B: Actually no, we get model work. Elvis: Really? Yeah. Speaker B: Ah, they sent us modelworks. Elvis: Who the hell sends a model works? Who ships model work? John Wilson: Not me. Barbara: For like what? Speaker B: for implants. So sometimes they want custom abutments or maybe the full restoration. We always tell amino, send us a model with your soft tissue packe. We take it in. DES does make two different scan bodies. They make the lab scan body and also the intraoral scan body. And we figured, you know, I mean, the introoral scan body is just a nicer looking and thinner, you know, so why carry both? So we just decided to carry the introoral scan body because it works both intra orally and extra orally. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker B: Ah, people send over the models, we put the scan bodies on there. We have a couple of phishing tackle boxes over here that has all the implant scan bodies in there. So based on what brand and what size it is, we take that scan body out, put it in, scan it. scans really good on the three shape E4 scanners. Elvis: Yeah, but people send you models. Kick it over. Speaker B: Yeah, people send models. People send all kinds of stuff. They send impressions without analogs and we tell them, hey guys, like we need the analogs, but if they don't, then we just go on desk's website and order them. that's one part that we don't stock is we don't stock analogs here. Elvis: That's crazy. Out of all the parts you hold Analogs, you don't. Speaker B: There's really no reason because we technically we're not. We don't receive and like we don't want impressions. Right. We don't want to put that impression coping inside the impression. What if it's wrong? What if it's. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker B: Ah, like five degrees off or up or down. So we just tell the customers, you know, pur up the model and then send us the model with the analog poured in. So then we can't touch the analog. We don't want to put that in there. but they still do. They still send it. So then we have to go on des's website and order an analog, do it ourselves. Half the time it's good. Half the time we tell them, hey, this is not going toa work. Elvis: Do they have a different analog for digital models and stone models? Speaker B: No, it's all the same. So they're dim analogs. They can work for both stone or digital. Elvis: That's the way it should be. Speaker B: Yeah. And very cheap too. I think it's like, I don't know, I think it's like less than $15 on their website or $12 and take, I don't know, check the price later. But so affordable everything. Elvis: Yeah. And I know a lot of implant companies color coordinate things. Does DES follow that color coordination? John Wilson: Yep. Speaker B: I know their analogs or different colors. But as far as like tie bases and prem mills, it's either gold or white. Elvis: Yeah. John Wilson: Yep. all the analogs are color matched to the manufacturer. Elvis: That makes it easier. John Wilson: And the screws right? M just like the manufacturer. Elvis: Yeah. So the screw matches the manufacturer design. Right. The FDA requirements for a lab to be certified to do that is a challenge John Wilson: Talking about the pre mills. Elvis: Yeah, the blanks. John Wilson: I was so anti coming up using a lot of Atlantis and of course working with dently Atlantis anti mil youon abutments. And it's still not a major thing that you see, but you're starting to see more. Barbara: Oh yeah. John Wilson: And I always assume like most lab owners, it's just a challenge. Right. The FDA requirements for a lab to be certified to do that is a challenge. And there are two ways that you can be FDA cleared. Right. One is to do it exactly like the manufacturers do it. Which is ah, a bunch. Right? Elvis: Yeah. John Wilson: A lot of audits, a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of documentation. And most labs would choose not to do that. A couple have, but not many. The other way we were starting to see people, you know, partner up. Hey, we make this miling machine, we partner with this group, they make the blanks. We make the milling machine. If you follow our protocol, you know you'll have FDA clearance. And. And that's something I never really understood until I got with DESS and realized that they have one. And it's a very cool workflow. Right. They literally do all the work for you. And what they've done is that their R and D team has validated everything in the process, from intraoral scanners to lab scanners to milling machines, to CAD and CAM softwares, to the blanks, the screws, the zirconia we use and the cements that we used to put them on. And they've gone through all the testing and validation says, hey, here's the list. This is a recipe. If you use something on this list in your workflow, you're cool with the FDA and you can mail your own abutments. M. Wow. Elvis: But you have to have all that same equipment, right? John Wilson: Yeah, but It's. Look, it's three shape intraoral scanners, prime scan intraoral scanners, it's three shape and exocad lab software. It's mailbox CADflow. All the softwares we use for cam. It's the most popular zirconias out there. VHF Mills. And there's another couple that are almost done with validations that are very common milling machines. Elvis: Ye. So you're not going out there buying specific things? John Wilson: Nop, not at all. And their blanks are very cool. Right. They have a really solid interface with the milling machine. So there's not a lot of chatter or movement. A lot of heights. One of the shortest, one of the gaps that I've always seen with a blank is that the milling machines you're doing to mill the top part, the abutment part in the lab. There's a limit to how close you can get to the interface. Elvis: Yah. John Wilson: Theirs is the smallest I've seen on the market. You can get very close. So it is almost a true tip to tip mill. And then finally their latest, their angulated blank. Right. So they have multiple options of an angulated hole in this blank so that you can mill corcted an angulated corrected custom abutment in your L. It's crazy. Elvis: Is anybody else doing that? I have not seen that. John Wilson: I have not seen that either. Elvis: That's crazy. Speaker B: Jimmy, correct me if I'm wrong, but they have two versions of this, right? Type A and type B. Yeah. And what each one is, I think. Okay, so like type A. You know, almost every hex out there is like six sided. Elvis: Ye. Speaker B: So that means if you divide six divided by three, by 180, it's about 30 degrees that you can change the rotation, right? John Wilson: Yep. Speaker B: If I'm not mistaken, then type B is obviously the middle of that. So now it gives you flexibility, I think, to turn an abutment 15 degrees using both. Right. both the options that you have at your disposal. Now you can have an abutment that's up to 15 degrees, as close as you want to be to where you want to be. John Wilson: Yep. Speaker B: If I'm not mistaken, I might be off. It might be 15 or 30 degrees. Yeah. John Wilson: Still A orient to the flat of the hex, and B orients to the point of the flex. So that you have all that option of picking the right one. You need to get the hole in the right spot. Speaker B: I'm just thinking inventory wise, that's, that's a lot of inventory I got to carry. Elvis: But the software will tell you which one you need, right? Speaker B: Yep. Elvis: Once you design it. Iteah. John Wilson: That's right. Because the DME's are in the computer, so it's pretty easy to decide. So I'll be lecturing on that. That's called a plug and play workflow, for the FDA clearance, and I'll be lecturing on that in Chicago. Elvis: Oh, nice. Barbara: I'm sure a lot of people need to learn that, though. Alien is going to be a validated milling center for DESS soon Speaker B: Honestly, Elvis, I wanted to add something to what Jimmy said regarding the fda. So I'm, proud to say that soon we're going to be a validated milling center for DESS in the United States. We're working with their team in Spain with their regulatory team, once that becomes available. So either a lab can choose to do all of their, you know, validated workflows, or they can just send that to Alien if they just want to get it trusted. validated from DES workflow. yeah, milling center. So all they do got to do is upload their file or upload their, you know, send their model work. And Alien would be one of the first ones on there as a validated milling center for this. Barbara: I would think as a lab owner, that that would be a much better route for a lab to take rather than try to get all the FDA in line. That's excellent. John Wilson: Oh, yeah. If I chose to mill my own abut, it's exactly the way I'd go. I wouldn't do all that other stuff that he's doing to go through. It's just too easy. And when I saw the list and I said, well, gosh, I had all those Things except the VHF mail. Then that wouldn't be a bad meal to purchase for other things. That's an easy solution. Now, I'm still a fan of Atlantis. There's nothing easier than pushing that red button. That thing's back in three days and somebody's done all the great work to get it correct. But there are labs that want to do it themselves. And I get it. Titanium milling is a little bit scary. A lot of things can go wrong if you don't do it right. But those that are bold enough to do it, this is a great solution. And I'm a fan for those that want to do it. Elvis: Yeah. Are you milling abutments now, Sorrow? Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Elvis: Okay. I figured you were. You're not new to this. It's just. You're going to be val. Speaker B: Exactly. Yep. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker B: So DES is coming out with like, a comprehensive list of validated milling centers so labs can trust and sent to and I think will ll be one of the first ones on there. This is a brand new workflow that they're introducing. They're saying, okay, you can do it yourself with our validator workflows, or now here's some trusted validated milling centers that you can just upload on now, source to. Elvis: Nice. Barbara: What's that like for you, Sara? What kind of paperwork and red tape and all do you have to go through to be able to give that to labs? Speaker B: Sure. So DES wanted to audit our workflow. They wanted to audit our, FDA CF821, which is section 821 of the FDA. They wanted to make sure that we're reporting everything and logging everything down. And they saw everything. They said, okay, it's perfect. Now we're just waiting for the clearance so we can be on their website as a validated milling center. Barbara: Nice. Elvis: Well, don't sit on it. Like you said on clear aligners. Speaker B: Man, oh, man, that was. A movie was made within that time frame. What was the movie? Give it up. It was called moor city Yeah, a movie was made within that time frame. Barbara: What was the movie? Give it up. I don't think. Elvis: Oh, did you not see? It was called moor city. It was like a western. Speaker B: I love and hate this city. Elvis: Y. Yeah, it'like a western where aliens come and visit it. It was actually pretty well done. I mean, I'm notna. Speaker B: The idea was that, to be honest, I wrote the script about, I'd say, like seven years ago or five years ago, somewhere around 2019. And, it was a small 30 second clip. And I was like, oh, I should make a little commercial out of this. And then one day my cousin was over He's a director. So I said hey, let's make this thing happen. And he goes, okay, send me the script. I said, you know, because things are becoming a reality now. Let me just revise it a little bit. It was a 32nd script, probably like half a page. Told him give me a couple of days. After a couple of days I sent them the script and he said Sao, this is 10 pages now, big deal. He said it's not a 30 second clip anymore, that's a 10 minute movie. I said okay, let's do it. So we decided to shoot it. We casted in one week. I started a whole new business for the studio company. Right. Because we have to get filming permits, insurance, workman's comp and all this. So pulled everything off in less than a week. We hired the talent and we had almost 18 actors. 27 total or 30 people, give and take on set, but about 18 actors. Yeah, we did in a little cowboy town out in la, about an hour away from la. it worked out, people showed up. It was two days of shooting and then maybe about two weeks of editing after that and then he was done with it. we launched a movie and it's even submitted to the LA Film Festival. Let's see what happens. Elvis: Really? That's great. Barbara: So how do our listeners find it? Elvis: I'll put a linktube. I'll be sure to put a link on this. But yeah, that's cool, it's fun. I'd love to see what non dental people would think of this. Speaker B: Yeah, they're like what the hell? Elvis: What is this? What? Speaker B: Why is there an alien delivering teeth? Elvis: This doesn't make any sense. Speaker B: I think I read some one of the comments on YouTube, they're just like what the hell did I just watch? Elvis: Well that just means you did something right if you get that comment. Barbara: If you ask me, confusing non dental. Elvis: People, that's what we do. Barbara: Yep. Speaker B: O man. The desk lock is the most common denulous implant used Elvis: So Jimmy, I want to touch upon the desk lock abutments because you do a lot of digital dentures. I imagine you introduce the desk lock to a lot of people. John Wilson: Yeah, you know what? I didn't even know it existed. That's one of the best kept secrets in the industry. The desk lock as I have now learned is ah. As an exact clone of the attachment that we've all known and loved forever. The short. It's been around forever. It's the most common denulous implant attachment used. John Wilson: Because of its, you know how short space we can do it in and, you know, how many options, all the implants, all those things. It's been great for us. And they literally cloned it. I mean, you can swap all the parts between the two systems. They all work together. Elvis: That's nice to know. Speaker B: Yeah. John Wilson: I looked at the nylon buttons, and I said, you know, that's even the same color as the other guys. Said, yeah, it's the same stuff. I said, did you guys not get in trouble for this? And they said, yeah, they had a little trouble, but they've worked it out. Right. So whatever legalities happened, it's happened, and they're good to go, and so it's great. So the desk lock is an exact clone. They have it in all the sizes and shapes that all the implants, all the heights. I like the tool better. It engages the abutment for torquing it down better. So the tip we put in the torque Wrench has these two to three little PRNGNs that fit around the abutment, so it's a little more stable when you're torquing it down. Elvis: Oh, it goes around the abutment. Interesting. Yeah, the little. John Wilson: Two little fingers that go on the outside lift. Just kind of stabilize it while you're torquing it down. The desk lock has a small hole on this edge of it so that, you know, patients that complain about the vacuum created when you're pulling a locator off that hole is designed to minimize that, so it might be easier to remove for the patient. Elvis: Interesting. John Wilson: But the metal housing is the same. The nylon, the black. All the colors are the same, and they have them all. I'm not sure why you wouldn't use this thing, because it's an exact con. Now, I love my pre friends, and I love the success we've had. So, it's a struggle for me a little bit, but it's literally half the price. Elvis: Yeah. And it looks like it comes with a tool to deliver it. John Wilson: Yeah, the little plastic part that you put over top of it to seed it and deliver it to get it started. It's great time, that you can reuse it, but it'll wear out. But they have a metal one to replace it with. It's just. It is so well thought out and so well done. I was amazed, blown away that I had not even ever heard of it. I didn't even know what it was. Elvis: Yeah, it could be out there. You just don't know what. It's so similar, except for the tiny hole. John Wilson: The colors are a little bit different. it's A slightly different gold hue. It's the same titanium nitride coating they use in all the other things. So it's a little lighter gold. But again, they've actually had some, independent studies done over in Europe with the tissue reaction to this D lock abutment and we are seeing better tissue response with it. Barbara: Why do you think? John Wilson: I think it's a titanium nitride. I think there's something in that metal coating or whatever. It's the same coating that Atlantis puts on their abutments. So it's not an anodization, it's actually, it's a fusion process. So it's a special, you know, it takes more work but. Barbara: But the tissue responds better. John Wilson: There's some sort of ion reaction that, you know, the tissue likes better. Barbara: Wow, that's fascinating. How do you integrate this with digital dentures? You never have a model. Yeah, well, we still print some models too occasionally Elvis: How do you integrate this with digital dentures? You never have a model. So what are you relying all on? Chair pickup with desk lock. John Wilson: Yeah, well, we still print some models too occasionally for these things. But no, I actually put together, you know, if a patient has an existing denture and the dentist gets two implants placed, we can use that existing denture with a wash impression and a scan intraorally, with the DES scan post. And so we can create our model. Right. But we can do a two appointment workflow. It's a wash impression of the denture, it's a scan intraorally of the healing caps and a scan intraorally of the scanpost. We bring all that into three shape and we design the dentures. Right. I have the DME's for the scanp post. And we can create the space in the denture by using this data. And so we print the dentures with the space already there to pick up the housings. And then all'left to do is print the dentures and you go in, work in the abutments and pick up the housings. And the second appointment using the patient's existing dentures. Elvis: So you do that before you select your heights. John Wilson: Well, that's all done at the same time. Right. When the doctor's going to do the scan, we ask for the tissue depths. Elvis: Yeah. John Wilson: So we can order the abutments at the same time. Elvis: Interesting. How do people get hold of alien milling? Easiest way on website All right, enough nerding out. Running out of time. We are running. John Wilson: We're getting deep into the technical. Elvis: It's only going to get worse and we need to start wrapping up. So sorrow alien milling. If people don't know about you, I mean, what do they not look at? Lmt or you're like on the Whole page. But how do they get hold of you? Speaker B: Easiest way to get hold of us is on our website, alienilling.com. that's number one. But if you're bored, you want to talk to some aliens, call 844-Zirconia. We're always available Monday, Friday. Elvis: Zirconia. How do you get that? Speaker B: That's when I first started the company. I'm like, okay, we need a catchy phone number, right? Cause nobody knows this. So I said, all right, what are we gonna specialize in? Zirconia. So let's go. 844zirconia. Elvis: Yeah. Barbara: Nice. Elvis: And I imagine you're coming at Chicago 2025 as big as you always do. Speaker B: Yeah, we'll be there. We might change up the booth this year. It's still, I mean, it's November, so we gotta get to plan. But I want to do something fun this year. So let's see what we come up with. I know in 2020 we did the whole arcade. That thing was huge. John Wilson: Yeah. Speaker B: Ah, that was pretty fun. Elvis: Yeah. It's gonna be hard to talk that. Speaker B: And I remember the person that won that. He's never played the game in his life. It was his first try and he put the high score up on the board. People were trying all weekend, you know, to try to beat his score. Nobody could even come close. This guy never played a game ever in his life and he just put up a high score. Elvis: First time pinball wizard guy there, right there. Speaker B: He was great. Jimmy here to serve dental. com is a great resource for any dental lab Elvis: Jimmy here to serve dental. How do people get a hold of you? I mean, I imagine everybody could use a little Jimmy in their lab. John Wilson: Yeah. Here to servedal.com do all the information is a contact form there, a list of all the courses I can do for you. Are there the training services all listed there. But hey, the cell numbers in there too. Just call me. It's just me. I'm here and more than willing to talk to any lab that's looking for help. Training your technicians, educating your dentist on your behalf, anything like that. Helping you with workflows, operational issues again, ran a 12 million dollar lab, so I know a little things about it. But it's pretty clear. I made it clear many times. I'm kind of the most okay dental technician, but I can teach things pretty well. And you know, last year I was humbled to, have been awarded the NADL educator of the year thing. Speaker B: Excellent. Barbara: O. Yeah. John Wilson: It's just been a fun ride here to serve is kind of. Is the way I've always answered my emails for my most of my career, and it just seemed natural to be the name of my company. And it is really the way I live my life right m. I want to have a servants attitude about everything. And, you know, I'm truly here to help make you better. So, yeah, website here to serve dental.com. Elvis: Easy enough. Gentlemen, thank you so, much, both of you. It's so great to have you back on the podcast. We love catching up and, I mean, if there's one thing we've learned that I mean. Alien. I imagine you guys mill a ton of stuff and Jimmy's in every lab. Teaching Des is the way to go. Barbara: Yes, sir. Speaker B: Is definitely the way to go. Elvis: That's awesome. John Wilson: Agree. Barbara: Awesome, guys. Thank you. Speaker B: Elvis and Barb. Thank you. Elvis: Yeah, absolutely. We'll see you, both, if not in Las Vegas. Chicago or Chicago? Barbara: Vegas. John Wilson: Both. See you in Vegas. In Chicago. Absolutely. Elvis: All right, excellent. Thanks, everybody. Talk to you soon. Speaker B: Bye, guys. Elvis: Bye. John Wilson: Appreciate it. Barbara: I'm so glad I didn't have to do the last name, but he is pretty impressive. A big thanks to Jimmy and Sorrow for coming on our podcast A big thanks to Jimmy and Sorrow for coming on our podcast and talking about why you've partnered with Des. There's a lot of options out there, and it's nice to hear firsthand from users and why they use it. And of course, everybody, if you want to learn more about any of the Desk products, just head over to des-usa.com that's if you're in the US everything we talked about are on there for you to check out and order. And if you haven't seen Sorrow's short movie called Molar City, definitely check out this episode show notes. Check out the movie made for dental technicians by a dental technician. Thank you, Jimmy and Sorrow. hopefully we will see you in Vegas or in Chicago. Elvis: All right, everybody, that's all we got for you, and we. We'll talk to you next week. Barbara: Have a great week. Merry Christmas. Speaker B: Bye. Barbara: just head over to des. Slash. Elvis: Dashh. Barbara: O. Elvis: Dash. Barbara: Yeah, Des, hold on. If you want to learn more about any of the Desk products, just head over to des. Us. Elvis: dash. Dash, Dash. Barbara: If you want to learn more about any of the Desk products, just head over to des. Slash. Elvis: No. Dash. Barbara: Oh, my f. God. Oh, my God. Dash. Elvis: Yeah. Slash is a forward slash and a backslash and a dash is a straight horizontal. Barbara: So it's slash. Dash. Elvis: Okayash. Barbara: if you want to learn more about any of the Desk products, just. Elvis: Head over to the views and opinions expressed on the voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.