Looking for a way to unlock the full potential of your digital dentistry workflow. I'm Elise Heathcote, associate manager of digital services with Everclear. I'm excited to introduce you to Cam Academy. I have a new in-person training experience designed specifically for dental technicians. This hands on course explores the full potential of program Cam software, helping you take your digital workflow to the next level, learn directly from our experts, refine your skills, and bring new precision and efficiency to your lab. Cam Academy is more than a course. It's your next step in digital excellence. To reserve your spot. Visit the Everclear Academy website or contact your local Everclear sales representative today. Welcome to voices from the bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email at. Info at. Voices from the bench. And follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 389 of voices from the bench. My name is Elvis hahahahahahaha! And my name is. I'm going to kick your ass in the next five K ten K rate. And that's Barbara by. Wow. Okay, uh, I'm back to normal. I think friendly competitions aside, I know Barb's here to win. I am, I am, I am. Honestly, I don't think I'm ready for a ten K, but I may do the five K and I may, I don't know, I haven't decided yet, but I'm ready. When's the last time you ran a ten K? Which is what, six miles? Oh, you don't know? I had to think about it. Sorry. I live in America. You are a runner. I would say five months. Oh, wow. You better, uh, do some training this weekend. Well, Elvis, I just want to let you know that for the last two weeks, I've gotten up every morning and I've run nice. So what are we talking about? Well, we were talking about this week is the race for the future, y'all. You should donate to us. Like, absolutely. When you think about emotionally what you do and how much you love your industry, and then you've got somebody like me going, oh my God, I got to get up every day and run 3 to 4 miles and Elvis and oh my God, like 20 other people. Sorry, I don't know names, but yeah, like, I would think that would be some sort of an emotional connection where you'd be like, I want to give. Let me do it. Not even for me, but for all of us. And if your motivation is just donating because Barb's getting up earlier. Yeah, whatever floats your boat, you know that. But, yeah, the amount of people that are actually showing up next weekend, it's probably the biggest list I've seen in a while. It's amazing. Yeah, it makes me, like, super happy. I think you've got a list. Can you name them off in my group alone with me, I got Allie Williamson, Mark Williamson and Brandon Smith. Love love love. And then there's you, Barb. But we also got Bennet Napier. He's running Brian Thacker. David Avery, right. Greg Harris. I called Greg and I'm like, bro, you're running. He's like, no, I'm walking. I love him. Kelly. Renfield. Laurie. Margarita. Lindsey. Rohan who just runs this whole thing. Mandy. Arena. Mark. Rosenberg. Marlene. Goon Marlon's the bomb diggity. He does like the swim for, like, ten people. Yeah, for anybody that doesn't want to swim. Rebecca Serrano I don't know who she is. I can't wait to meet her. Susan van Rensburg. Oh, Bergen. No, it's Susan van Bergen. I love her. Tom Love and Vicki Thomas. Oh, this great group of people. Should be interval training and stretching this whole week to do this race in Fort Worth, Texas. Hmm hmm. Now, this is one of the biggest fundraisers the foundation does every year. So what you need to do is go to Dental Lab Foundation. That's where you're going to donate. You can check out this episode Shownotes for all of the details. Now something else happened. Very exciting just this week. Alien milling technology. Alien Milling Technologies announced that they are going to match $5,000 of donations. So if you hurry up and you donate right now, that amount is doubled. All thanks to alien milling. Who is the like? Alien milling like names. Let's give names because that's pretty spectacular. Saro, who's been on the podcast so tons of times, and Raffi, his brother. You. Yeah, they do great things and they're on the cover of every magazine I ever get for this industry. I know they do amazing things. Thank you. I think you should donate just to me. But it's okay. So it all goes to the same place. 100% of it goes right back to us technicians getting their seat for education, advocacy for our beloved profession, everything. It's a great cause. And this is the last week. But if you want to donate after this race, that's okay too. What is happening this week? So this week we are back again in the great state of Florida at the Jensen booth at the FDLE symposium. I just want to say real quick how much I really like the vibe of this Florida show, huh? It's not super huge, which I like. The hotel is great, the people are great, and the board does a really nice job keeping everything just running smoothly. If you ever get a chance to go to the show, I know Barb and I, we both definitely recommend it, but this episode features three more conversations, and we're going to start with the longtime employee of Jensen Dental, Nick Bethea. Nick started his career becoming a dentist. He actually graduated and was practicing for a few years, but Nick kind of learned that it really wasn't his thing. So 26 years ago, he got a job at a company that at that time was known for alloys. But Nick comes on to talk about his journey, the early days of Jensen when Milo came on the scene, and honestly, just what makes Meow Meow? Then we are visited from a past guest and friend, Shawna Crip. Shawna was back on episode 321, which was probably two years ago, about a year. She was an in-office technician, cranking out full arches and just getting on social media. Now she is with Harvest Dental. She's got a huge passion for education. Shawna comes and talks about making the move using easy gum, which is unbelievable, and how she is able to spread love, knowledge and passion all over our industry, which, you know, I kind of like. All right, I'm getting a little emotional. Sorry. All right. Then we we then wrap up the episode with a long time tech and a really good guy. Mark Stewart. We've known Mark for years and years and years with his time he has spent giving back to the industry his time on the NBC board. He talks about going from a McDonald's manager to a dental technician, getting over to Drake Dental Lab, which we love. Also, 36 years ago. He doesn't look that young. He doesn't look that old. He doesn't look that old. How much their lab has grown over all those years, and how being on the board is more than just giving time. I so love that. So join us as we chat with Nick, Shawna, and Mark Stewart. We are always talking about staying ahead of the curve and this rapidly evolving dental lab industry. The dental lab landscape is shifting fast towards full arch solutions, and if you're not mastering both removable and fixed protocols, you're going to be left behind. The smart technicians are positioning themselves as the go to experts that doctors can't live without. That's exactly why Zest Dental Solutions just launched their first ever Zest Lab mastership program. It's an intensive, hands on laboratory experience that's happening October 11th, 2025, in Las Vegas. Designed specifically for lab technicians who want to become full arch masters. Now, this is a full day of intense training, where you'll unlock the advanced techniques that transform both removable and fixed prosthetics from ordinary cases to exceptional patient outcomes. You're going to master the art of creating life changing, full arch restorations. You're going to discover streamlined protocols, and you're going to develop the diagnostic skills that will revolutionize your lab. Plus, you'll get hands on experience with locator fixed. Now, this is the technology that is completely changing how labs approach fixed restoration. You'll become the trusted full arch expert that doctors rely on for their complex cases. And when that happens, your case fees are going to soar. Your referrals will multiply and your lab becomes the go to destination. For the most profitable patient preferred treatments in dentistry. But here's the best part. As a voices from the bench listener, you're going to get $100 off. When you register, all you got to do is use the Code Voices lab when you sign up. V o I c e s l a b. Head over to zest for Lab Masters 25 or visit the full calendar at Centcom right now to secure your spot. All these links can be found on the show notes, and remember to use that Code Voices Lab to save $100. So October 11th in Las Vegas could be the day that changes your entire career completely. Register today at. Lab Masters 25 or by visiting Zest Dental. Voices from the bench be interviewed. This is super exciting. FTL a 2025 the Jensen Booth. Mio. We have Mr. Jensen himself. Well, well, I mean, come on. You know what? They probably have it. Probably a couple of tiers down from Dave Stine, who is the owner of our company. Yeah. You know, Mr. Jensen, who started the company years ago, was, you know, a metallurgist and a refiner of metals. So he probably wouldn't recognize the company today. I bet. I bet. So let's introduce yourself, Nick. How did you say your last name? Nick. Yeah, yeah. That's correct. Yes, yes. Name? Yeah. Where's that name from? It's Irish Comanche. No. You had that answer on the ready? Oh, yeah. We have anybody who, you know, a kid of the 80s who's seen Fletch, the movie Fletch. Yeah. You remember that that that was one of the lines, but it wasn't really. Yeah. It's that's. Yeah. Born in this country, but but, uh, ancestry from India. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So, so we talked a little bit yesterday. I got a little bit of your story, but let's go through this because. You started as a dentist? Well, I think the fact that I'm a salesperson now will, you know, tell you exactly how good of a dentist I was, how the, you know, the quality of my hand skills probably left a little to be desired. But yes, in fact, you know, from your neck of the woods, graduated from the University of Louisville School of Dentistry in 96. Did an aged, you know, for a year, uh, practiced for a couple of years, had some, you know, carpal tunnel issues with my hands, wasn't really enjoying it. So, um, this is what throws me a little bit. Did you not realize you had the lack of hand skills in school? I mean, you finished? Yeah. Yeah, you took on the debt. Listen, I will tell you, you know, my focus initially was I didn't get into medical school, so I was going to do a year or two of dental school, retake the MCAT and go in. But fortunately, I fell in love, met my wife. You know, also a, you know, apparently a practicing dentist right now and, uh, you know, love trumps all. And and so I stuck it out, even though I, I probably didn't love the, the hand skill portion of it or the artistic portion of it, I'm more right side of the brain and probably more pragmatic, but loved working with people, loved helping people, enjoyed that part of it. But when I realized I probably wasn't going to be helpful to people. Probably more harmful to people, I said, hey, let me do something else. And Jensen gave me that opportunity. And this was when this was roughly 1999, 99. So I've been with Jensen. Yeah, yeah. On 26 back then. I mean, obviously mio was not a thing. So what was Jensen the focus at that point for me was going to be mostly prospecting for new business, but but also kind of a cross-reference to to doing some lecturing on articulation and occlusion with my background and having that that background as a dentist, you know, I would travel to Seattle, study clubs and lecture on on the Art tech's product, which we were selling. It was an arm on gearbox manufacture product, but we were the exclusive distributor at that point in time. So the my adjustable articulators fully semi. Yeah. Went to dental schools and lectured went you know Seattle study club groups. And so that was kind of my thing for a while. And then, you know, I rose to the role of regional manager in, in the late 2000, you know, 2008, 2009. And I've been, you know, regional sales manager in the southeast region and in eastern Canada since then. So how big was the company when you started? Uh, you know, probably because it's a pretty private small it's a we're not publicly traded. No, we're not, we're not up the with the big boys there. We probably had in in North Haven, um, probably about 20 employees at that time. Um, we also opened a satellite office in Utah and had another 6 or 7 employees. And then of course, we had Jensen GmbH, which is the German version, which was another 5 or 6 employees at that time. What started first, the American or the German? Oh, no. The American Jensen Jensen was based out of North Haven. In fact, Walter Jensen was a metallurgist for generic pentagon and generic pentagon is that's an older company. An older company. Uh, that that was also an alloy manufacturer back in the day for dental or for. Okay. Yeah, for dental. And he broke off and started his own refinery, you know, to refine scrap metal as well as to manufacture alloy, which is how this company started just selling the ingots. Selling alloy. Yeah. I mean, competing with Williams, you know, some of the other companies that were here. Oh Malenko. Yeah, yeah. And generic Pentagon, which is where he started. So yeah, it's evolved. The company has evolved, you know, quite a bit over the years. You know, creation porcelain was something that we sure we sold exclusively in the United States at that time, you know, and we evolved into, uh, you know, the digital world in the early 20 tens and certainly expanded our horizons there with zirconia products and, uh, wax products, uh, uh, PMMa, other things. And then and all of that, we started bringing all that in. And then then, you know, with neo, as we spoke of yesterday, I mean, Jenson has has been a company that's taken good products and really make them better. I mean, you know, in terms of marketed them the best they could possibly be 100%, um, in terms of selling them and educating the people to these products, to the, to the best of our abilities. Always been known for that, never really been known as an innovative company necessarily in terms of new products, pioneering products, game changing products. And Meo came along, you know, and that that all changed. How did that come along? I mean. I, you know, Don Cornell probably. I mean, you know, was he an employee? You know, we don't I don't know the whole story. They had to be honest. I mean, I think a lot of that is, is is kind of cryptic, kind of kept under. You know, I don't believe. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. Just to. Long story short, Don is known as an engineer of porcelain, engineer of ceramics, an innovator, a great designer of, you know, porcelains in the past. And so, um, there was an affiliation. You know, Don got on board and became involved. And today, you know, what? Did you just show up to work one day and say, hey, we have this new thing we want you to try to sell. And you're like, uh, okay. Well, there was a soft launch. You know, it was it was tiered. It was a tiered approach. You know, we soft launch to labs that, you know, we felt, uh, could, could successfully implement something of this sort. I mean, I think, you know, you you being in the industry know that I think technicians, this is something technicians have probably wanted, ceramists have wanted for years. I don't know if they knew they wanted it. Maybe, I don't know. Well, maybe maybe they're maybe the bosses of those labs wanted it because they wanted efficiency without compromising the end product. Right. You you want to be able to produce the best product you possibly can. But. But you want to be able to do it efficiently and profitably. And, um, mio allowed you to do that without holding your nose and covering your eyes and saying, hey, we're just going to it's just good enough. And, and, you know, this is great stuff. I mean, this is amazing stuff. It's ceramics that that scatters light, that excites light, that refracts light, much like a layered crown does. But from what I understand, most people are excited about that. When you put it on before the oven, it's the color it's going to be. Well, the what you see is what you get element. I mean, as far as I know, this is like the only material. I mean, when it came out, it was definitely the only material at that time that, that, that had a what you see is what you get element. It had the same refractive index wet as it did dry. So that that what you're putting on, you could do chair side shading and know with confidence that you've hit that shade, that you've got that characterization. And no color properties are going to change when you pull it out of the furnace. Yeah. I mean, I'm not a ceramist, but I remember looking at, you know, years ago and they're putting on blue and yellow and I'm like, what the. It's supposed to be white, you know, and it and it kind of, you know, it kind of came on at a, at a good time, kind of the advent of, of, you know, labs bringing on people from outside of the industry that understood computers, that understood software. Um, and this is an easier tool to teach, an easier resource to teach somebody that doesn't have a ceramics background because your eyes don't deceive you. Your eyes see what they see. So if you know you've got it, you know you've got it. It's not a question of putting a blue powder or a pink powder or a white powder, and just visualizing and hoping that it looks the way it needs to look. So when it launched, how many crazy color is were there? Do you remember? Uh, you know, probably 18 or so. Um, well, when you look at at, at mio aesthetic versus mio pink tissue, uh, mio aesthetic, uh, you know. Two, 3032. Colors neo pink 1617. Colors in that range. Um, both color and also structure and structure. Obviously structures three dimensional under layer that you put under it. Or it's the overlay. Actually, it's the icing on top of the cake. The cherry on top. Well it's, it's it allows you to take what is, in essence a two dimensional crown with color and actually put surface texture over the top and make it a three dimensional crop. Um, you know, with, especially with tissue, um, it's an amazing transformation because when you look at it at a, at a restoration, um, you know, from afar or even from close, when it's very smooth, you can tell it's a restoration. You can tell that it doesn't have that stippling, that orange peel stippled perforation that it doesn't have the the bony protuberances coming out through it. It doesn't have the Perry on the facial of a central incisor. You're able to do that, you know, with, with, without jumping through hoops, uh, like you typically would have to do with doing a normal pink tissue. Ceramic. Ceramic, 32 layers. Don't need 32 layers or 32 bakes. Yeah, that's the worst thing. Because you know what? We feel that Miho has done is because of the ability to hit your shade and do it with minimal layering. I mean, you're never you're never really putting more than 5/10 of a millimeter of ceramic on a case. Oh, wow. Um, so you don't have unsupported porcelain. You don't have chipping, cracking delamination. So you're able to, you know, what used to take 8 or 9 bags and may take 2 or 3 now. And, and so it has become now an added revenue stream that smaller and medium sized labs can incorporate into their fray. Whereas with layered porcelain, they probably would never consider it because they could never profit from from that type of labor. Yeah, you can't spend that much time on one crown and expect to make a profit off of it. That's right. And every time that thing goes up into an oven, you never know. Wow. I mean, is the color going to be right? Is there going to be a huge crack going through the bubble? Yeah. Don't know. I mean, you don't know, but this this kind of eliminates the guesswork and and really allows you to minimize your labor. Um, you know, up to 60% less labor at times. You know, especially with these tissue cases, uh, you know, even smaller labs can now justify doing all Onyx type cases. Yeah. So. Jensen's has partnered with some amazing technicians. I mean, Terry's here, but you've had Alana and you've had Kyte and Amanda Carson. Amanda Carson, Jack Marano. Yeah, I mean, yeah, some amazing joy, obviously going back many years and still, you know, an amazing ceramist. Uh, Bart. Bart. Kathryn. Who is this is his home base. Yeah. Just so many amazing people. We we've I mean, they, like I said, we've we've got a, a kind of a an eclectic collection of ceramist, you know, some that are, you know, the high end oral design creation types, you know, from, from years years old, you know, from yesteryear and ages ago. And then we've got guys that understand, you know, the balance of quality and production, like Bart, you know, who you know is these are guys that are working it every day and they're, you know, some are in-house with that, with orthodontist and dentist. Others are working in production labs. Others, you know, are doing their own thing. But I think that kind of variety helps us outreach to, to, to, you know, a variety or multiple number of ceramists that can certainly benefit, you know, from, from using Meo in many different ways. And I know we talked yesterday about how I think when this product came out, there was kind of a feeling of of this product threatening, you know, established ceramist. Um, because it is an acquired skill. It is something that is learned through through years of either apprenticeship or schooling or whatever. It's not easy to just pick up a brush and stack porcelain. Um, so I think many people felt that, hey, this is this is kind of minimizing our skill. This is minimizing our trade. Yeah. And and you're now letting a, you know, a staining glazier do what we're doing, but. I think over the course of time. I mean, owners bought in right away to the whole concept. And I think over the course of time, especially with structure, I think they realize that you still have to have a skill set, a knowledge of morphology and anatomy to be able to to create this type of Michelangelo work that you see behind you here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the audience can't see it, but but you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. So does this hit all three? Better. Faster. Less expensive. We believe it does. I mean, that's pretty amazing. Once again, I mean, somebody's been doing ceramics for 20 years. There's still going to be a learning curve to transition away from layering because they they they've probably got it down to a science where they have to learn how to do it a different way. But it it's a kind of a unique type of application technique. As we mentioned yesterday in our conversation, you're not just painting it on like you would a stain or painting a picket fence. It has a little more viscosity to it. But but the thing is, is this is not a stain. So you can actually take color and float it on top of color. You can take color and float it on top of glaze, but there's a technique to doing it that allows you to do it. And it's called a dab and drag technique where you you're in essence applying the material, but the bristles of your brush are never penetrating the substructure or never contacting the substructure, and you're just floating the color across like you're petting a cat or a dog very gently. So it requires a light hand, but then you can put a blue on top of a red and it's not going to form purple, you know, you can mix it together. Intentionally to form purple with this material if you want to, but you can create multiple layers so you can get that color, that multiple. Yeah, you get that multiple. Look, um, you know, that that that multi-tiered, layered look to a restoration. Are you allowed to lick your brush? I know ceramists love to lick their brush. As long as it's your brush. Don't lick another. Don't lick another ceramist. Brush your brush. But don't look. Those are fighting words. When you do that, you know you can pick your friends. You can pick your own either. That's right. That's a that that's that's crossing the line. If you, you you lick another ceramist. How is your skill? Have you, uh can you do this? Well, listen, we when I was going through dental school, the University of Louisville is a strong prosthodontics program. And in fact, I, you know, our program required us to do 20 units of Crown and bridge. Now, we didn't layer porcelain, so I didn't, you know, I didn't do 20 full cast or something. We did 20 full gold crowns, I mean in bridges. So we learned contour and morphology through the wax ups. We learned how to cast. We learned how to polish. We we learned all those techniques. We designed partials. We didn't actually cast the frameworks, but we designed old school partials, equipoise, partials, all that kind of stuff. I'm one of the few. We didn't. We were required to actually process dentures. We were required to wax up our dentures. Yeah, but I actually had patients. This was like around Christmas time. And if I had sent it to the lab, the patients wouldn't get their dentures for Christmas. So I took it upon myself to say, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to. And this was not injectable. This is the old school. Yeah. You know, flask it. I boil it. Hit it out. Hit it with a mallet, you know. And then the polishing. Oh my God. You talk about a painstaking operation. Um, so I've had experience with that. But ceramics, it's minimal. We did some work with creation. You know, in my training when I got on board with Jenson. But but no, I, I've played with this a little bit, and I'm probably comfortable enough to say that even I could do it, which should give confidence to any, any technician or staining glazier out there. Because we've already talked about my hand skills I needed. I need to try it sometime, because if I could do it and you do it while you're here. Yeah, do it while you're here because it's a good opportunity to kind of get a feel for the product. And and really, it truly is an amazing game changing product. And the what you see is what you get element is a big part of that. Well, I mean, Barb, who's not here, unfortunately huge advocate. She is a huge advocate. And I'll tell you, I mean, sometimes on this podcast, it becomes a meal commercial just from our guests speaking so highly of. Yeah, yeah. And it's not intentional, but it's just it is what it is. I mean, I think when you look at at. You know, the turn of the century and the products that have been innovative. And, you know, obviously Imax and obviously zirconia itself, you know, starting with lava and then evolving over to, to to multiple forms of zirconia. I think you put Meo and I know we're tooting our horn here. You know, we're being as you should, you know. But but but this is one of the, the inventions of the, you know, the 21st century in dental technology that has been a true game changer. And when did it. What year did it launch? At 2017. Well, Chicago was Chicago 2018 2017 as a soft launch. So 2018 I remember that lab day. Yeah, I remember the buzz being. Is it mayo or mayo? Yeah. Yeah it's sweet. And we basically told everybody it's make it your own. You can call it what you want to call it. So tomato, tomato whatever you prefer to whether you're British or American, it's whatever you want. So so it is you know, Mayo is an acronym for make it Your own. So, you know, I remember when we somebody brought that up on the podcast and nobody had any idea that's what it meant. Yeah. And it blew all of our minds. Well, and I think there's also a Japanese translation to it as well. That means beautiful. But but but I think I think, you know, our vision, our marketing's vision was that make it your own because it appeals and basically goes across all limitations and constrictions. It's not all things to everybody, but it's something to everybody. Yeah. You know, that's that's you know, if you want to use it to replace stains, you can use it to replace stains. If you want to use it to add a contact, you can use it to add a contact. If you want to use it to replace layered ceramics, you can use it to replace layered ceramics. So it depends on how whether you want to dab your toe or dive completely in. How many of the names did you come up with the names? No, no, no, I'm fascinated by them. I don't understand them, but they're amazing. It's it's like. It's like a cloud. It's like a moth. It's like, you know, a Crayola 64 box. Not not, you know, it's what it is. It's not, it's not the minimized eight, eight. You know, the big fat crayons that are red, blue, orange. No, this is I mean, it had to be a wine drinker because I mean, you got you got you had to be somebody. So I would imagine it took somebody who was definitely a creative thinker. But the colors are. The palette. The tissue palette is incredible. It is. I mean, it's the most. One of the broadest palettes of color I've ever seen for tissue. Oh, um, and then. And then even the teeth colors. I mean, it's too much, you know, but it was it was 64 colors. I mean, that was always a thing, you know? Hey, if you you were in kindergarten or you were in second grade, you wanted 64. You didn't want you want your parents with the sharpener on the box. So you want to have that variety. And yeah, I mean, is it going to be are you going to use 32 colors every day? No. But you have that, that, that you're going to run across some cases that require more of a earthy undertone, earthy undertone, or maybe more of a hazy, cloudy translucency on the incisal where you pick smoke or. But you might have one case, you know, maybe a younger dentition or you know, that that has more of a frosted cap and you might use snow, you know, that's more opaque use. You might use storm in an older dentition that has translucency. I mean, yeah, I tell you, it's, uh, if you're an artist, it tantalize and titillate because you've got so much at your disposal that you can work with you ever. You ever talk to somebody and you're looking at their teeth. You're like, hmm. There's a little that's in there that. Well, absolutely. Absolutely. There's a you know, you feel bad for them if there's a little moss or there's a little garnet, you know, because usually that's like an A4, C4, d4. Uh, those aren't the the nicest shades to replicate, right? I think the next shade you got, you all need to come out with this coffee. Coffee? I think there needs to be a shade Folgers if you can get the name brand, but coffee? Folgers. That's. I always tell people I joke my shade tab is full. I've always suggested cafe au lait. Something like that would be fancy. That goes well because we go Merlot, we go. I mean, you know, I'm just saying some stuff, boozy stuff like that. My shade is coffee. Terry McPherson's got something to say. What? Ripple. You're not allowed to come back on. Well, it's a family program. All right. Thank you so much, Nick. We appreciate the opportunity to work with you to be at this booth. Well, as you know, when we had the opportunity, when Kevin came to me and said, hey, can we make this work? I said, absolutely, because once again, I think, you know, you're one of the great mouthpieces for the industry, for dental technology. We love to hear what you have to say. And, you know, if we can bring people together and certainly impact them in a positive way and have them speak to you about it, then I think it's a symbiotic relationship that I think is going to help all of us. So I love it. Yeah, we appreciate you. Thank you. And everybody go show some love to Jensen. Get some mayo. Thank you Nick. Thanks. Appreciate it. Check check check. I hear you. This is so exciting. Yay! FDA la 2025 at the Jensen booth. The makers of mio and I have an old friend back who just said what, a year ago? Yeah, it's been a year. Shauna grip yeah, I remember the last name. You did it. How are you? Amazing. Yeah, yeah, lots of change. Big time changes. change. Let's see. When I talk to you. You had a beautiful upstairs lab. Yeah. Doctors were downstairs. Yeah. Yeah. For locations? Yeah, yeah. And you were just pumping out. Mhm. Full arch. Your daughter's boyfriend was working for you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So what's been going on? So I'm still there. No. Oh, actually, I work for. I work for harvest. This is exciting. I think this is probably the most exciting thing. It was like. So tell me the dream job. Tell me how this happened. Social media. Yeah. That was my, you know, my platform. I decided I really wanted to put myself out there. I remember you talking about this, you know, my podcast. I wasn't even looking. You know, to jump ship. But I had Rob and Sasha, who, you know, own pleasure. Yeah. Sasha. Yeah. Uh, Rob sent me a sample of the easy gum. He's like. Here. Try this out. So you're just posting online? I'm just posting Instagram, right? And you're posting your work. What you do? You do some great videos of just kind of like day in the life of you, I guess. And he reached out. Yeah. Totally. Like, did you know who he was? I knew who he was. And I was like, okay, well, you know, let's let's give it a try. Yeah. You know, I was. I'm not big on, you know, switching out products, but I was, you know, in the market for looking for a resin that I was like, I would actually enjoy using. Yeah. And he's like, just try it out. I was like, all right. And I kind of put it off for a little bit because I looked at the package and I was like, what is this? It's like it's in a strip. Is it trying to. What? Okay, so I sat down and I was like, let me give it a whirl. I used it and I didn't want to like it, but I loved I loved it, and like, I still have the picture of, you know, my very first arch I did with that, you know, that product. And. Yeah. And I just took off with it. And I have a knack for like finding workflows with, you know, my products and making sure that I can be efficient with them. So I came up with an entire workflow for that using on prosthetics. And didn't they already have like a how to know they brought this product out without any. Yeah. There really wasn't anyone, you know, really put anything out there or like, you know, we have instructions of how to put it on, but like really how to implement it and workflow, it really didn't exist yet. And I just kind of took that on there. Like will you do a couple of webinars. I'm like, absolutely. I was in heaven. And being able to teach others, you know, exactly what I'm doing. So we did a few webinars. And so wait a minute, how long did you use it before you were doing webinars? Um, probably up three months. And you were like using it in your lab every day. Every day. It became like a massive stage. I mean, I was getting arches done so fast. I can do an arch in 15 minutes. The whole thing. The whole thing, rather than what took you how long? Maybe an hour. Oh, my God, of cutting the little pieces out, picking the colors. You know, I have a super ADHD brain. I need simple, I need like, structure. The doctors you're working for. They love this stuff. I mean, did they like the product? Were they they actually saw a difference because I was able to step away from like using glazes and I did hand polishing and they were coming back in for check ins without like. Lots of plaque buildup and discoloration and or I feel like some glazes just really break down in the mouth, you know, especially on these. And patients were complaining of like bad taste in their mouth. So I really, really pushed back, you know, to hand polish. And the particles in the easy gum are so small. It's like clinical resin almost. And you can high shine it like any like it's amazing. Okay. Amazing. So they were on board. Yeah. They were on board with it. They loved it. They saw the difference. Um, just I was able to get a lot of them done at one time. Makes me happy. Yeah, yeah. Because you were basically by yourself. Yes, I was by myself. And I picked up doing all of the crown and bridge for, you know, the four locations. So it was. Yeah, I had to be efficient. So harvest says we like what we see. Yeah. Will you do a webinar? Have you ever done a webinar? No, I've, I've taught like in person and like being able to, to do on what? Um, actually I taught at a local school for like dental assisting and doing lab work. Yeah. Okay. So that's not new to you. That wasn't new to me. I enjoyed it, but doing webinars and like hands on, hands on and really showing my, you know, my lab work, my workflows, you know, that's a scary territory. Opened up the door and let everybody in. So how'd it go? Went amazing. You know, huge response. People are really enjoying it. Um, I was actually doing some demos by the end of the year. They were like, well, you want to come help us? Because we don't have a sales team. It's just us. This doesn't have a sale. No, we don't have a sales team. So, I mean, it's literally just us really reaching out and getting to know these labs and texts and just doing hands on and education. And so they asked you to. So I do full time with harvest and I'm basically just education. Okay. So I work with easy gum and the nano zirconia. They offered you a position and you left your. I did. Wow. How did they take that? It was okay. It was good. We we found, you know, the appropriate replacement and. Oh, okay. They're doing good. Okay, good. But I couldn't resist. Like, it's just like a dream job. So what is your dream job? What? I mean, what do you what do you do? You just do hands on all day with labs that are trying to get into the easy gum. So, I mean, it's a lot of communication. I'm doing a lot of education. So at home I'm set up to do virtually. So anyone that's interested in or is using easy gum and they want to know how to kind of up their game with it or their efficiency. We can get online virtually and just go hands on. Well, you have like a room with Cameron and all the ring light and everything I do. It's really it's like a little setup. It looks like a space station, like in the corner. Does it really? Yeah. And at any time someone can reach out to you and you're like, let's do this. Yeah, anytime. I'm ready to go. So I usually schedule we have like links where you can schedule, you can email or, you know, text message. Um, no. Yeah. We get set up for it. Um, we also do with the nano zirconia. We're doing a lot with that and education doing green state sintering, you know, finishing. So do you do it all? Yeah, we're doing it all. But I also finish cases, um, for select few, um, in my, my little boutique lab. So I'm finishing hybrid cases. Oh, so you're doing that too. Yeah. Interesting. So people will send you the work. You will finish it and send it back. Yep. How much? How much are you? Are you doing that a lot or not a lot. I mean, it's a very it's because I travel and I'm really kind of focused on making sure that we're putting the education out there, but I'd still like to have my say. Are you going to. My hands on. Um, yes. We're doing we're going to labs. We can do one on ones or we can do group. Uh, but a lot of it is virtual because it's fast. It's easy. We just get you in, and I just can work side by side. We. You know, you're doing it. I'm doing it so I can show you all of the tools that I'm using, um, buying techniques, the tips and the trick that I found along the way. So people really appreciate that. So but you do go to labs. Have you gone all over? I mean, um, you get a chance to travel quite a bit or is it mostly shows? It's a lot of shows. Yeah, but because you did what, lab Day West? I did lab de Chicago here at LA. Were you in Texas? I was no, I didn't go to Texas, but I was with, uh, Cornerstone Dental Seminars, so I was there. So I did some demos and we did some, you know. Printing and seeding that day because it's a hands on course for all inks. Yeah. Um, yeah. So you're all over the place? Yeah. You liking it? I love it. Do you really? I do, yeah, I do. I mean, it really is working for harvest. You know, Sasha and Rob are deep thinker, genuinely, you know, just authentic and creative. So our our space is creativity. Yeah. And that is rare. Like, there's not a single speck of corporate feel to it. It's we all sit at the table. We all have ideas we share. I just feel really lucky to have that because that just fits me perfectly. Yeah. I couldn't sit and be quiet and like, and all this happened because you just put yourself out there. I did, I did it was never carried on towards harvest. You never geared it towards. I knew you were just authentic, what you did. You just put it out there, I did I was really I at the beginning of the year, I was like, I'm going to do this. You know, I really see myself educating. I see myself out there just showing people that they can do it to not to be afraid and that we're all supportive. We can all network together. And yeah, I have a photography background, so. Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Kind of get, you know, those photos and the, the videos. You're very good with that. Thank you, thank you. I don't know how you do it I but. It's good. Yeah. The videos are. That's new for me. So me being in front of the camera is, like, was terrifying. Yeah, but I'm getting more and more and more used to it. I think it's important to note that you weren't you didn't have, like, 80,000 followers. No, it's not about. No, it's not what? It's about quality. Yeah, it definitely is. A lot of my followers are they engage. Like, I get tons of messages and questions and I love answering those and having those relationships. Every show that I go to, I come home with like ten, 20 new friends that, you know, generally we had conversations and that's great. You know, I know, like where they're from and what they do. And so it's it makes a difference. And you're versed in all products harvest now. Yeah. I mean yeah, I mean what are some super pay I always thought was a great speed polish. Speed polish is literally like the Swiss Army knife in my pocket because I use it on they reformulated it. It used to be like super pasty. Oh, now it's different. Now it kind of feels like a soft compound stick. Interesting. So it's a higher density diamond. So you can use it on metals or Konya. Um, lithium or you can use it on everything. Interesting. Yeah. I never I didn't know they reformulated it. So that's nice to know. The brush is so literally my favorite is like I'll go hunt somebody down for it. The the hybrid fusion brush they harvest by harvest. Their tips are actually magnetic. But the number six is the the sweet spot one. I actually I use it with my mio. Oh yeah, I do interesting I do I post about it a lot and it just it's. It's perfect. So what? Harvest zirconia. But mio en I do. Yeah. So most of my cases are all mio. Um, all my zirconia cases, and I'm. I still post and do a few of the easy gum, because easy gum is, you know, certified. We can use that on a definitive restoration using zirconia. And so wait a minute. What? You see, gum is for PMMa and the final. Yes. So it was created intentionally with zirconia in mind. Interesting. Yes. The bond is what you know is the secret sauce in that we're still like here at on. Yes. Yeah. So the arches that I was showing you earlier. Yeah. Yeah. That was. That's easy. Gum on on finals. Yeah. On finals. On a on a smooth zirconia. It stays. Yep. So there's a little bit of prep work. Um, I do rough it up. I do, I do a slight cut back so I can make sure my edges are smooth. Um, Sandblast steam clean, dry. Yeah. And then the bond, the bonds are really important factor in all of this and how it's applied and cured. It has to be cured with the handheld light. You can't put it in a box. No, because it's it's not the same. It has to have a higher intensity. So like the nanometers have to be like at like 500 plus, which we see on the clinical side, but not in those cure boxes, not in the cure boxes. You can do the strip and the flow labels in a cure box. I prefer using a handheld the whole way through. I just get a quick easy. It's going to have to stay longer in the box. 20s per section with the curing light just is easier for me. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, but yeah. Yeah. Cool. So if somebody wants to learn more. If they want to learn to hold about, they can learn more by contacting me on any of my socials, which is via Lady Tooth Maker. Yeah. Um, I'm still on VA. I'm still in VA. Okay, I'm still there. If you moved, would you have to change your name? Oh, that's what people keep asking me. I'm like, that might be because you never know. Um, cause harvest is, what, in California? Yeah, they're in California. Yeah. You've been out there a few times, I have. It's awesome. It was I lab day was. I took an extra day and actually played in Santa Monica. That was my first time. It was really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Actually got another tattoo there. Oh. So everywhere I go, I get a new one. Oh, really I do. Yeah. This was Chicago. It's a little tooth with bat wings. That's a good one. Which one? You get in here, I don't know. Are you getting one here? I might, I might I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. Are you staying the tonight and leaving tomorrow or. No, I'm actually leaving today. Oh, you better hurry. Yeah, but. Yeah, yeah. That's great. So how do they get hold of you all your social media. So. VA a lady tooth maker. Either that or they can email me. It's Shawna at Harvest dental.com. H a a n a. Yeah. Okay, so it's s h a n a um, but yeah, the. Party socials is the fastest way to find me. And if they wanted to learn about the product, is there an upfront charge or do you know there's no charge? You just jump on and be like, hey, let's talk about it. Let me show you how I do it. So that's amazing. Yeah. Free education. Yeah. You know, to use an amazing product. So, you know, if I can just talk you through it, get you set up with the workflow, you know, you take it from there, you know, and you're available for follow up and all that. Yeah. See the questions. I get pictures all the time and I'm like, yes. Like I get so tickled when people send me pictures that, you know, they really worked at it. And I'm like, I'm so proud. Like, yeah, you know, it's like they're my they're like my kids. I'm like, yes, dude, that's great. So yeah, I'm a huge, huge, huge, um, into, you know, making sure that the education is there first. Yeah. Not the sale. Yeah. So have you been on, uh, Sasha's podcast yet? No. Do you want to. Do you. I need to, like, we need to do that because we keep talking about different ways, you know, to kind of collaborate. You know, on our own things too. But. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Sean, I'm so happy for you. Thank you, thank you. I'm. I'm really excited. I'm loving this. Yeah. You should. You're doing a good thing. People know you. Now, I know it's weird. It's so weird. Like walking in because this is never. I'm like, introvert, massive introvert. So, like, walking into things. And people were like, hey. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, yeah, you know me. It's a good feeling. It's a good feeling. But yeah, keep doing what you're doing. Thank you, thank you. Let's talk again and then maybe another year. Yeah. See where you're at. Yeah, I'm sure you're killing it. I can't wait. Shauna. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Thank you. What are you going to win? You can listen for free for a year. See, I like it. Mark! What's happening buddy? Oh, just hanging out, having fun with you. Mark. Stuck close enough. Well, how do you pronounce it? Stewart. Stewart. Stuck. Here we are FDL a 2025 Jensen Dental booth marks DeWitt from Drake Dental Lab. You got it. What's happening? Sir? Man, I don't know. How are you doing down here? Visiting friends mostly. Yeah, looking at some of the, uh, attractions and, uh, in South Chute. No attractions like all the shows, you know, and the seminars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, those are attractions. Yeah. So tell me, Mark, you've been with Drake for quite a bit. 36 years. 36 years. Tell me your story. How did you end up there? So, actually, my, uh, the way I ended up at Drake starts off with how I ended up in the dental industry. Yeah, I was managing a McDonald's. Managing a McDonald's that was 19 years old, and a friend of mine, I used to go 19 year managing. Yeah. So a friend of mine I went school with was working at a dental laboratory as a sales guy. Okay. And he called me and he says, hey, man, you want a job that's 8 to 5 regular hours working, making this much money? I'm going. Heck yeah. I said, what do I need to do? He said, you're going to be driving a car and delivering cases. Oh, I said, I drive my own car. He said, no, you drive a company car. I am all over driving somebody else's car. Making money. Working 8 to 5, 19 years old. 14 years old. So when I went into the lab, I drove a car for three months. Is this Drake or. No, this is not Drake. This is. This is an Alabama. And after three months, they brought me into the lab to do the model work. The general manager of the laboratory was Billy Drake. Oh, wow. So he was my first boss in the dental laboratory in 1980. I didn't realize he. Well, I guess it makes sense. He worked somewhere else first. Yeah, yeah. So he worked there. And how was he as a manager? Oh, he was a very good manager. Really? He was a very good manager. Yeah. And he left two years later to open his own laboratory in Charlotte. And. He called me three times during the time that he opened his lap, to the time I actually went up there, and I was never like one of those job hopping guys. Yeah. So plus, you would have to move, right? I gotta move on. That's a lot. You must have been a hell of a model technician that if you wanted to bring you up there. This. I was a metal finisher at that point in time. Oh, so. And he called me once. I said, I'm okay. I'm good, you know? And he called me again a couple of years later, and I'm good. A couple years later, I remember like it was yesterday. It was on a Tuesday. Yeah. The owner of the laboratory just got all over me about something that I didn't do, but he thought I did. Oh, he took that opportunity. So that night, literally that night, they called me again and said, hey, just wonder if you were interested. I know we called you before. So I'll be there Saturday. Been there ever since you literally left Alabama. Just drove to Charlotte. Yep. No place to live. I mean, so I had a house in Alabama. I drove up for an interview on Saturday. Love me, hire me. Saturday interview. Saturday interview. Yeah. Love me. Hired me. Went back home. Told my boss that I was leaving. I gave him two weeks. He let me go after four days. Of course. Yeah. So that Saturday, I went up there to go live in an apartment for a while. Yeah, my wife sold the house in a week. She moved up with the kids. That's where I am. Wow. Okay, so what'd you start doing there? Uh, metalwork. I did a lot of the metalwork there, and then I moved into the implant aspect of it. How big was it back then? 19 people. Wow. Yeah. So this was a 2900 square foot building and 19 people. But the building was just a not a good building, right? Yeah, but the minute I walked in and saw the work, I was like, I have got to be here. I have to trust the quality of the quality of the work was intense, really. And it didn't matter where you worked. It was what you put out. Did, uh, Billy Drake pull people from other. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he had quite a few people from Alabama at that point in time. Oh, yeah, I imagine quite a few people cherry picked. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was funny with that. But yeah, we had 19 people when we started there, and we moved out of that lab a year later. Oh, a year later. Yep. And, uh, he just exploded with. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And within ten years we had 75 people. And then we had to move out of that building and moved into the one we're at now, which is 33,000ft². Wow. So what, did he start his full service or was it just fixed? Always full service. Always full service, actually. What Billy do. What was his? He was ceramics as well. Was he okay? But the lab he bought was actually a partial lab. And so when he bought that, he still had all the old removal stuff there and just really focused on bringing more of the ceramic stuff in to coordinate with them. So he bought out an old lab. Yeah. What was the name of that lab? Do you remember? Um, I don't remember exactly. I know it started in 1956. Really? Yeah. Wow. That's cool. I didn't realize that. Yep. So you you came in and started doing metalwork. Getting into implants. Just growing. I've started in metalwork, did some implants because I did ceramics and all kinds of stuff when I was in Alabama. Yeah. When I moved up there, that's what he needed. So I started really wanting to. Three times he called you. You must have been a hell of a technician. Oh, I don't know about that or I. I guess he saw something. I guess he saw somebody that's going to stick around for 30 years. So, yeah, I did that. And then eventually he said, you know what? You're pretty good. Let me just move you into the quality control area and see what's going on there. And and that was 2003. I moved into quality control and calling doctors, checking the work. And I've been doing that ever since. You've been doing that since 2003. Do you like it? Um, yeah, for the most part, I do. I mean, I hope. No, I hate it. It's amazing how much the industry has changed. Oh, sure. Especially the dentists. Uh, the only reason I say that is because I remember when I started, the dentists were king. They. They knew everything. And unfortunately, with the the technology and everything that's come out. They've kind of fallen behind from that. So now we're very important to the dentist, which makes us a lot more valuable. Yeah, it makes us a lot more valuable. So how many calls you do in a day? Just all day, every day? Probably anywhere from 80 to 120 a day. Incoming and outgoing. Yeah. Holy moly. Yeah. That is a lot of calls. So calls manage the laboratory. Usually the work. Is that your role now? The manager? Yeah, I am the lab manager. And how many people now? Uh, we're probably just shy of 100 right now. Yeah. Wow. You got. You're a busy guy. There are days. There are days at my age. I'm. I'm. I don't like working as long as I do, but this is a podcast. No one can tell you. You look great for 30, 36 years. I was actually started when I was minus six. And you're big into the NBC and getting your certification. When did that all come about? That's a whole different story in itself. Yeah, just because I received my seat in 1989. And the reason you're still back in Alabama, I was still back at yes and no. Oh, so the owner of the laboratory I worked at said anybody that wanted to start their seat, I will pay for it. And so I'm like, hey, you know, why not? I've been doing it long enough. I figured I'd try. So I went and I tried and I did all the testing. He paid for all the testing there and then. Billy called and I moved to Charlotte, and a month after I moved to Charlotte, I received my certification. That guy paid for it, so he paid for it at that time. So Billy had it. But I never really thought a whole lot about the CGT. I didn't really think much of it. Yeah. And then when they there, the board came up and said, hey, you know, we're looking for people to come on the board. I said, you know what? I'll see what it's like. Yeah. I had no idea what the CGT meant until I came, until I went to the board. So when did you start with that? Getting on the board? I was on the board about ten years ago. Was when I started. And I was on it for eight years. Yeah. And, uh, it was it opened my eyes to what the CGT does. Sure. It was absolutely amazing what that group of people does and and what they bring to the industry. So that's interesting. You had it, but you learned more about it when you started participating in like, the behind the scenes. What did you learn? What you didn't already know? Well, I just thought it was a piece of paper. A piece of paper he had on the wall, you know. But now that I learned that the CGT, what they do with the seeds and what they project out into the industry and what they project out to the dentist, what it is. Yeah. It was so much more. And what went into CGT? Oh, just hear it because I know Barr participates in the questions and stuff, just that process. Like because I had actually done a few of the, you know, when they do the go down and take the test, you check the questions. And I had done a couple of those before and I thought that this is kind of interesting. You know, that's what they said. Hey, you want to be on the board? But that had nothing to. Questions. That was one thing, but actually being on the board. Yeah. And and just seeing what everybody does and how much work they put into it and what they think about I mean, yeah, just being on the board. We changed all the testing. We went to computer testing, we went to all of that in the last ten years has changed the board completely. It had to us. So you're welcome. But thank you, Mark. But, uh, yeah, there was a a lot of change while I was on the board. Just not because of me. I'm just saying, while I was there, you're part of. So, uh. But. Yeah. And and a team is a very good word for that because it's amazing what they do together. And you have people that roll through every year. They, they they roll through, but it still stays consistent or gets better every single time. Well, you're you're there during the whole time it switched from having to travel three states over to take a test. That was you. Where'd you go? Do you remember? Uh, so I remember. So when I took my seat, I did mine in Texas. So that was. So you went from Alabama to Texas to take the test? That's a heck of a but I remember I remember like it was yesterday. We were sitting at a in a room and it was August and we were going over all that. And somebody mentioned something about, you know, having to travel for the CDC test and all that. And I said, why are we doing that? Why don't you figure out a way to have them do it in their own lab? Because people traveling around you came up with this idea. Depends on who you talk to. But. All right. But I'm sure Rachel is quivering in her boots right now. Let me get you. Um, but I just remember because there was a I know who was sitting next to me at the time. I said, why are we traveling? Let him do it in her own lap. Yeah. Figure out a way. And Rachel and and their whole team and just came up with this phenomenal way of doing it. It took took it a little while, but I mean, it's just. And I think it has done wonders for people to be able to take the task. Yeah, absolutely. I remember I we've heard stories of people like taking their ovens somewhere, and then they get there and they can't get it working again. I'm breaks something they have. Yeah. They know the comfortability of being in your own laboratory is is totally amazing. But the thing is, as old as I am, I remember when the CDC tests were taken at your, you would do your work at your lab and send it in. Oh, yeah. So I even remember that. Yeah, I just kind of combined that to where now you can be able to. I'm not saying I, but the MBC board combined that to where you could actually, uh, take your test at your lab, but it's monitored now. It's not like you got somebody else doing it. You don't even know it. But it's monitored now. I've never admitted this, but my first lab, somebody offered to do the work for me. Ah, you send it in. I didn't do it. Yeah, because I'm not a ctt. But I was just I remember that I was like, it just doesn't seem right. No, but they figure out a way to do it. Sure. People did it back in the day. I'm sure they did some of it, you know. Yeah. Do my model work for me, or you finish this down for me or and but they came up with a way to do it that was very, very efficient. So who's watching you do this work? Is it technicians. Is it dental people or is it. No, actually, it's just some third party person that knows what you have to do. And they they have you have a camera, a stationary camera at your bench. And then you have a camera that you walk around with because you go to different parts, you go different parts, and they they watch you. They have to watch all around, make sure there's nobody there with you, working with you. Anybody do it during working hours and there's other people around? I don't think so. Generally not. Yeah. I mean, I think the most time they schedule them either, you know, after hours or weekends and stuff like that. I couldn't give you a direct answer to that. You probably have to ask. You know, it'd be weird if you see, like, like a female technician working, then their hands back out, and then these guys hands come around and they're all like hairy knuckles. And they're like, oh, yeah, it could be the same person. I'm not sure. We're not here to judge. No, I am not. So you went through the whole board. You became chair. Yeah. That was a couple years ago, wasn't it? Yes. I left the board on your poor last year before last. So, what are you doing now? Are you on any boards or are you? I'm not right now. Um, I'm just kind of. With the way the work is going right now. I don't have a lot of time. Sure. So I wouldn't mind doing it again, but, uh, it's just it took a lot just to get me to take yesterday off. Yeah. To come down. So, I mean, it was, it's it's different now than it was. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, the lab was very good about promoting me to go and and, you know, Billy participated in all that. He probably went through the needle board. I don't know any deal. Everything he did. Yeah. I remember when I first started going to Cal Lab. He was the chair of that. Yeah. Um, and I was like, wow, this guy is hilarious. I think he's actually part of starting out. Was he? Yeah, I think he's 100 years old. Yeah, I think I remember starting the cow lap he had. I know he had something to do with it. I'm trying to remember right now, but he had something to do with the beginning of it. Yeah. And then his stepson, not stepson, son in law, son in law took over Bob? Yep. Uh, he was my first when I joined the board of the needle, he was a president. So your whole organization really promotes everyone to be involved? Yeah, they really do. Which is great. So I, I'm very fortunate in that fact that that they allowed me to do take time off and go do that with the board, uh, knowing what it was giving back to the industry. Are you the longest employee there I am now. Yeah, the longest one actually was there before Billy started, and she just retired last week. Last week. Well, congratulations, I made it. Okay. I'm done. And now Mark retires. Now. But. Yeah. Yeah. So that's it. So she was there at that lab that he bought out, and she was still there this whole time? Yep. What was she doing the whole time? Uh, she did a lot of ceramics at first. And actually, when she left, when she retired, she was scanning, and she was absolutely amazing at it. I mean, it was unbelievable. Yeah, she just wanted to keep working. She just wanted to keep going. Good for her. She only worked four days a week. But still, it was like one of those. I, I love what I do, and I want to keep going. I want to keep coming in. That's awesome. So. And does, uh, Drake, do they promote DDT? I mean oh, absolutely. Yeah. You pay for it and you push it and. Absolutely. And the big question is, do you pay the people more after they get it? So after they get their DDT, we don't have anything in there right now for extra pay afterwards. But it does when we do our evaluations. That has a benefit in part of our evaluation. Okay. Yeah. So, um, if you've gone for your CBT, then that's part of the evaluation forms that we have. Yeah. To move you to different tier. Yeah. Do you do like study groups within your lab for the EDT or is everyone on their own? No. We always try to make sure that all the seats have the availability to get their own, all their CBT credits, either at the laboratory, or we will allow them to go somewhere and do to take courses to do it. But we try to bring as much as we can into the laboratory because travel is expensive and a lot of people don't have time to travel. So we'll do like lunches and things like that. Uh, to do an hour session at lunch, you know. Well, there used to be a good show on that side of the the Eastern Conference was always used to be. Used to be. It's been a while. It has. Yeah. Yeah, yeah a lot of have gone under southeastern and eastern all that. Yeah. It's pretty much south. So. Yeah. So that's why you're down here in Florida. Yeah. Yeah. Well it's it's like I've been to the show numerous times and it's a really great show. So yeah, it's probably one of the better ones I've seen. In the last ten years. Yeah. So. And I've seen a few of them. Drake. Did they use mio? They do. Actually, we've been discussing that for the last three, 3 or 4 weeks really heavily because we want to, uh, drive back into the. We use mio, but not as much as we could. Sure. So we're trying to get them to come back into the laboratory to do some, uh, more training for us so that we can get more proficient and expand it in different areas. So you're not using it on everything. It's just more of, like, your full arch. It's like, uh, your hybrid pony hybrid, things like that. But I think it has a place beyond that. And we should find out what it is. Yeah, we talked to a lot of people. They start with that high end work, and then they find out they can just do it on everything. Yeah. And it just streamlines it and makes everything simpler. So we're working on hopefully next couple of weeks we'll have something going. Yeah I'm sure they'll be happy to send somebody down. Oh they we've talked already. Yeah. Well Mark thanks so much man. Absolutely. Always great to see you. You as well. I enjoyed our times when we were on similar boards at the same time and stuff, but, uh, at least we don't like to crazy right now. We don't. We're both Trekkies, so. Oh, I remember watching a crossword. I love it. I remember when I went into your office at Drake, when I visited with pride or somebody, you had the poster up or a picture up, and I was like, hmm, kindred spirit. I've got the enterprise up here. Yeah, absolutely, I love it. Thanks, Mark. No problem. You have a great one. Take care. Bye. We want to give a big thanks to Nick, Shawna and Mark for sitting down with me at the Jensen booth at the FDLE meeting. Of course, none of these conversations would be possible without Jensen. And of course, Nick, it's great to hear from passionate people that have been with the company for a long time. It says a lot about the person and honestly, a lot about the company. It's so great to see how much Shawna has grown since her first episode and that she absolutely loves teaching. You can hear the passion in her voice. Mhm. And we gotta give an official thanks to Mark for all the time he has given to the NBC and made testing for the CDC more accessible to everyone. That is huge. And Mark is a freaking fun guy. Just not that I would know, but he's pretty awesome. All right, everybody, that's all we got for you. And if you're coming, we'll see you at the race. Yeah. Have a good one. This is podcasting gold right here. It is because I'm like, what the. You can do it. The views and opinions expressed on the voices from the bench podcast are those of the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or voices from the bench, LLC.