Joe Mante, Western regional sales manager for. Here we all know zirconia is a hot topic. There's a lot of information out there, but also plenty of myths that could lead to confusion and misconceptions. That's why I teamed up with Jeff Smith. I was director of Technical and Digital Services to tackle the questions we hear all the time, from strength and translucency to processing techniques. We've got the answers for you, so please join us for an honest conversation based on real world experiences with zirconia. Don't miss out! Watch now and get the clarity you deserve. Simply log on to IBO or connect using the QR code available on the voices from the bench webpage to listen to this webinar. Welcome to voices from the bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email at info at voices from the bench and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 385 of voices from the bench. My name is Elvis. My name is Wahoo. Wahoo! Bah bah bah bah. Just talking about your sons catching the biggest fish I've ever seen. I think it's like almost five, eight, six foot. If you look in the picture, it says, well, how tall is your kid? He's about that big. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Us people in Florida, we're eating fresh fish tonight and it's called a Wahoo, which I think is a made up name. I've never heard of it. And he sent me the picture. And you can post it and people can, can talk about it, but yeah, it's a Wahoo. It's pretty rare to be able to catch one, but they're super edible. And you eat them like sushi. So you like serum and or eat them in like, a lemon sort of sauce that. Yeah, into a little bit of a meat and cooks it. But I like my food cooked. I don't know, it sounds like a Doctor Seuss character to me, but whatever. All right. Here in Indiana, we're not even buying fish that big in the store. That's crazy. So what's up? But speaking of things, near the ocean. Mm. Good segway. I stretched a bit, but it's been a minute since we talked about the greatest show that's going to happen this November. It's called Nowak Dental Supplies Nola Lab Fest that's happening in New Orleans, New Orleans, New Orleans, this show. I'm going to put a stamp of approval and guarantee it to be full of good people, good speakers. And of course it's going to be a great time. So everybody make sure you block out. November 7th to the eighth. Head over to Nola Lab Fest. That's n o lab fest and go book your flights. Of course we're going to be there, set up with the amazing people from A.D. to record as many of the attendees as possible. So join us or be really sad when it's going on. And you have to see everybody else online. And we know Elvis is going to post a lot, so they're gonna try be there or be square people. So we were in Germany. Let's see at Ides. This was back in March. Yeah, that was March Elvis. It's March 25th to the 28th to be exact. And here we are in August, still releasing the amazing conversations that we got when we were set up with our good friends in the amazing people of. Now, we've said this before and we will say it again and again that if you don't have Exo card, you really aren't offering everything to your offices. So make sure you go out and get yourself some Exo card. True that. So this week we're going to start the episode with the amazing people of Panthera. Now we've had Beatrice on a few times. Well, kind of more like 2 or 3 times I'll say. But this time we had the pleasure of meeting Pierre-Luc Duchenne and Derek Donnelly. PL, as he likes to be called, thankfully, is the director of marketing and talks about the unique way that Panthera creates that exceptional customer experience when using them for bars or sleep devices. Derek is the global Director of Customer Experiences that talks about them taking their product globally. Together, they tell us about their new one on one service that they offer for free. The growth of their sleep device division, their fusion bar that only needs five millimetres of clearance. Oh, we know you got excited. That's super amazing. Yep. I'm gonna say it again. Five millimeters of clearance. That's not a lot. I do know that that's not a whole lot. Of course, their new partnership with Vita and how the Panthera master Cup is finally making a much needed comeback. Nice. So then we get to meet the Irish dentists working in Scotland. Doctor Emer O'Connell. Doctor O'Connell was selected as one of XO cads. If you weren't there, it was amazing. This big giant people all over the place that are awesome heroes of digital dentistry. And rightfully so. As she talks about getting into digital almost 20 years ago, having to teach the UK doctors about guided surgery with the Cerec system, discovering XO, CAD and XO plan, and working with top labs from around the UK to get the best for her patients. She also tells us a very disturbing trend that's happening over there and what drives her to keep up with technology and what drives her every single day. So join us as we chat with Pierre-Luc Duchenne, Derek Donnelly, and Doctor Emer O'Connell. Voices from the bench. The interview. Finally, from Panthera sharing a hall with us and Hall one very close. We have two new Panthera people on. I'm going to butcher all of this. Perry. Luke. It's looking like that. You can call me PL, but it's PL Luke in Luke. Yeah. What's the last name? Duchenne. Duchenne. Duchenne. Duchenne. And then we have someone a little easier. Derek. Yeah. Derek. Donnelly. Derek. Donnelly. Welcome, you guys. So. Yeah. Yeah. English name? French speaking. Yeah. Nice. So, how many years of Ides have you. Have you done? Second time for me. That's it. Derek. Also. Yeah. I've met you with Panther a long time ago. Seven years. But it's only the second year that Panther comes. So I'm followed by. Yes. Yeah, yeah, it's a second time. Yeah, yeah. So I know that's surprising to me. Panther. There's been around for a lot longer than. Yeah yeah yeah for years. Yeah 14 years now Pantera has been going on 14. Yeah 14. But only two Ides. Correct. What was the hold up. Why do you know? Well, I think money first I was going to say this is guy I can't even imagine. It's a big trade show. You have to prepare. And we. We also had to to take care of business more closer to us. Canada. USA. Yeah. So now we are at a point where coming to ideas, making sure that the European. European market is taken care of. Yeah. Now we're here. Yeah. Well, I will say this by your second ideas. That's a hell of a booth. Yeah. That is beautiful. You guys got it going on. Congrats to PL on that. Oh, yeah. Is that all you. That's a teamwork. That's a teamwork. That's for sure. But, uh, the marketing team did an awesome job, and I think the the booth is really, uh. It's beautiful. It is. It is beautiful with a lot of speakers. Also. Patricia is. Oh, yeah. You saw that just by talking right now. So a lot of speakers and presentations, we, uh, we love to train at the same time and just discover our product with other products at the same time. So that's, uh, that's the main goal of our of our booth this year. I love it so. Pierre. Yeah. Do you say Pierre? Luc. All the timers are just Pierre pl you can say. PL or PL is much easier. Yeah, much more easy. Ask that. So tell me, what's your role at Panther? So I'm the director of marketing. Oh, okay. It's my seven year with the with Pantera. I began at the from the coordinator of marketing and just grow to the company following the the growth of the company. So yeah director of marketing, the beautiful team that do that brand magic. Oh, heck with the Panther. You know, so we we did that. No, no, I was already there. I continued the magic. Let's say that. Okay, so all all everybody knows that when you get a bar from you guys, it comes in a box that that rivals jewelry. Yep. Is that you? Yeah, I continued it. Yeah, exactly. I continued the great brand. I think it's really important to to just focus on that, that Panther and that high quality product that we have the whole customer experience. Exactly, exactly. When you buy Pantera, you buy an experience, you buy quality, buy high end product. So everything has to fall through. So everything is linked. Everything we do is high and quality. Well, what's funny is, you know, you could put that beautiful bar. Yeah, it's still the same bar, but if you shipped it to me in a paper sack and a, you know, in a paper bag and with a marker, it. Even though it's the same bar wouldn't be the same experience. It's all part of the experience. So that's why Derek is there also today. Our what's your role? Yeah. What is your role? I'm global director of customer experience. Oh yeah. So I've been there for five years. Yeah. So me and Luke works every day together to make sure that everything is aligned. The image of the company, the experience that you live, the experience for our customers, how we go get this information, how we put it in place to make sure we, we, we actually understand who our customers and what do they do? What are they? What are their challenges? How do they access the information? So how do you get that out of them? Do you ask them for feedback? There's many, many ways we ask them for feedback. We talk with them in trade shows. We talk with our team. And now we're getting even closer to customers. Because right now, since last month, we launched a one on one service for customers. What is that? So you can book the one on one meeting with one of our specialists from Tech Support that knows everything about Pantera workflows, uh, product whatever. And you can just discuss with them for an hour and it's free of charge. But yeah, I do a conference call with a specialist. You want to take case planning. You want to know how to work with Pantera, whatever you want. They give you one free hour and you can book many calls as long as we want. We have a team ready to do this. We understand how important it is. Just chat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just chat there. There's. It is a complex universe. Let's say that the dental universe is. It's complex, but we want to simplify that complex experience. So with that type of one on one call, you just talk to an expert and understand how how he see that and how you can. What a great idea. Great idea. It is, it is it is really smart because there's so many times you're using a company and you're searching on their website for how to actually how do you do this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, I sadly know you guys only as a bar company. Yeah. Because that's how I was introduced to you. That's how we use you. But we keep hearing about the sleep apnea. Oh, yeah. For you to work in that area, too, also. Yeah, that's a whole other realm that just get launched. How long is that? Oh, it's been around for a while. Yeah, I'm talking about through panthera. You guys. How long? Uh, the sleep division. Yeah, it's been there for the beginning. Wow. In the beginning? Yeah. Awesome. Now, the market and the understanding of the sleep apnea and the awareness. Exactly. The one is is. Growing. So is it more of the business than bars now or now? Yes. I bet it's growing like so fast. And just awareness is so important. And now more and more. Uh, insurance company or the government are reimbursing our appliance because it's way easier to start treating early in the process than to wait until you get older. And now that you have all those sickness coming out of sleep apnea or only snoring. So I think having a great solution there, I think more people talking about sleep, having more people get diagnosed with sleep apnea is a big. We talked about that yesterday how if you catch it in early childhood, it's so much more quicker where you can fix it, and then you wait till you're an adult and you feel like every day and you realize why you're not sleeping or you're not like or not understanding why you are. You're wake up and you're still. Yeah. Don't I know motivation. You don't want, don't know what to, to do. So, uh, when you are diagnosed, you are treated. It takes a little time. But after that new work, new new life. Yeah, totally. So props to you guys, because my lab doesn't do sleep apnea. We don't want to do sleep apnea. Yeah, and I get asked a lot. So I'm like, hey, have you heard of Panther? And I always recommend you. These little doctors in Indiana know of you. These tiny little doctors, like, oh, I've heard of them. I'll give them a try. Yeah. Props to you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It must. How do you reach Dennis? Are you also a clinical company, or is it only technical? Well, I mean, Dennis and technician, we are really focused with the labs or technicians. That is impressive. The bars and all that sleep apnea. You go directly. Yeah. We have another team completely different that focus on the dentists and the professional and the the sleep technician, the sleep professionals. So this is like two division. But yes, of course, one big team, one family. But these are two division that works separately. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah that's awesome. You guys are doing a great job. What are you launching here? Uh, yeah. Well, good, if you don't mind me asking. Oh, well, I don't know if you already heard about a fusion bar that has been out on the market for the past year, which is now our best product, the most sold product. All I, all I know is of the the video at the back to the future guys. Yeah. That was probably your idea, right? Yeah, it was a team idea. It's always about the team. It's always about take some credit. Take that back. It's about the team. Yeah, but yeah, the fusion bar mainly is a full arch and zirconia supported by a titanium bar. Okay. Yeah, we talked to Beatrice about that. Remember in Majorca or somewhere earlier? Oh, God. Where? Where are we? We talked to her so many times, I tell you. Okay. Sorry, but. Yeah, so. So we keep on working on this product, how we can make it even better. And right now, what we're launching today, in fact, is, uh, the fusion bar under the bridge profile that gives us the opportunity to do FP1 cases. So I don't know if you guys noticed, but lately FP1 cases has been asked everywhere. What is that f. Well okay so FP one two and three. Yeah three. Yeah FP1 is where you just replace the teeth. Yep. Less bones implant huge lingo correct. So that's why I don't know for years we're doing these all on for all on XS. And it's just like cut the bone down get the space. But as we're getting better with technology and restorative less cutting down the bone that makes just replace it, it's the way it should be done. They all should be done that way. Got it. Exactly. So we develop a new design of the bar of the fusion bar. Same concept, same advantage, but smaller. It can go to five millimeters of vertical space that you need to do the bar and the zirconia. So wait a minute five millimeters for all of it. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And it breaks in three months. It doesn't break. It's supported by titanium. So it's 30% stronger than a full arch zirconia and five millimeters of space. Yeah. That's not a whole hell of a lot, guys. No, I know that. That's pretty impressive. It is. We worked we worked really hard on this, and we really wanted to get into having a solution for everyone on top of a multi unit. It's above the gingival. That's already a couple millimeters above. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's a great solution. And what's great also with the fusion bar is that we do the milling of the titanium. And we can sell you the STL. So you can do also your milling of the zirconia. So that's really easy. You can just begin to mill your in-house. Yeah. Begin to characterize it. And you receive the bar glue it together and there we go. You have your solution. Yeah. So it's synchronized. So you just saved us a whole lot of time right there. Exactly. And all the the titanium milling headaches, you know, it's it's complicated to, to mill titanium. So we take care of that. You can mill the zirconia in-house because it's a little easier to say that. And we you just glue it together when you receive the bar, and that's it. You guys also do both. Sorry. Do you also do both as well? Exactly. We can split it or you can do it all. Exactly. We we offer all the the the type of service. If you want us to do everything, we do everything with the zirconia milling. And we send you both parts together to finish it. Yeah. And all this is done in Quebec? It is? Yeah. Done in Quebec. We have our office also in the US. Office in France and Germany. Is there one in the US? Where's that at? Yorba Linda. Wow. California. California. California? Yeah, about about an hour away from Los Angeles. So it's more administrative office that we have there. But we also have a tech support team in there to be able to accommodate West Coast customers. Oh, yeah. So. Yeah. So. We we have those office. We have the one in France as well to be on the same time zone as our French customer journey. I have that for sure. So we're making sure that if somebody needs something from us, we're going to have somebody that will pick up the phone and be ready. Yep. That's insane. How are you in every country now, or are we still working on it? Pretty much. Pretty much. Pretty much. And, uh, we, uh, we receive a little help, uh, this week. So big announcement also. We announced it, uh, yesterday. So Vita is now our, uh, distributor. Distributor for the prosthetic division in Western Europe. So they are exclusive distributor for France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy and Spain. So congratulations. Yeah. By, uh, Vita. I think it will. Uh, it's a perfect fit. A perfect partner in that part. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Big time. What is your biggest area in the world? Who does the most sleep apnea? Who does the most bars? Yeah, it depends on the the division, but, uh, for sure, uh, for the prosthetic, Canada and US is a big, big market. And for the sleep also because we are closer. Yeah. Big market out there. But you can see French is is a very big sleep market. And we are growing into this market of course. And Germany is also one of those big, big sleep markets where people just look for solution, good solution. And again it's understanding what exactly they're looking for and the drop in fit patient match appliance. They want to maximize their time. So how do you do this. Well no adjustment. Patient comes in put it in mouth then boom there we go. Yeah go home and sleep. Now sleep is a hot topic right now. It is. So you're going to see it take off. We've heard it a ton this weekend. And I think the general public's now realizing, hey yeah maybe this is where I need to go get treated. Well, I think a big part of it is, is. Sleep apnea was always CPAp. Yeah, that's a scary thing. Dad and I got to live with this on my face and all this, and now it's like. It's like a night thing. Yeah, yeah. And if that can fix it, it's worth a shot, you know? Yeah. It's a great product. And the education also, uh, I mean, we, we, we talk about it that it's always education when you understand your problem and you have other solutions that can solve it. Of course, it helps the market. It helps to, to to solve the sleep problem. Yeah. Yeah. I need to go back to this five millimeter bar because. Oh, yeah. There we go. You know your backs out on this stuff. I should bring an example. Yeah. We'll be back. What if I need to fill more than five millimetres? Do you make it up in bar? Do you make it up in zirconia? What we do is that we work out of your prototype. So you send us the prototype out of this, I design the bar inside of it, and then we split the file. So this is when you have the overlay, the zirconia part that you can make in the house. But no, we will. So we do the temporary. Yeah. Get it dialed in. Yeah. You take that. And as long as it's more than five, five or more, no problem. Yeah, but where do you make up the space? Titanium or zirconium? Titanium. That's awesome. Yeah. And of course, because I just started thinking as we were talking, I was like. I always have more than 5 million years. Where do I begin? Titanium is lighter also than the Apollo, so it helps a lot. And the more titanium you get more resistant, more stronger you get. So of course, the five millimeter is like the thinnest one. Really thin. Yeah. But, uh, the, the standard design, uh, go up as, as a where you want to make very many five millimeter ones. Probably. Yeah. We tried it like we wanted to try it and said, yeah, we're going to challenge ourselves here and how low can we possibly get? And this is what we came out with. Wow. I don't even know if I could do a conversion in five millimetres, you know what I mean? Like, how do I do that initially to have that amount of space? But no. And as you said, uh, if you have a bigger case, one good thing also is that you have, uh, we have a 3D viewer. Well, we will send you the, the suggestion of design and we will say, can you validate this design? Does it make sense for you? So you have a 3D viewer where you will see your bar in your setup. You can look in different angles. You can write comments directly to the design team saying, hey, you know this place? I want it a little bit higher, a little bit lower, and then have your opinions. We're dental technicians. Yeah. That's the it's part of the experience. We mentioned it. It's part of the experience. You decide what you want with your design. And or you can just say, hey guys, I trust you. You're the best. And we are so and you have a lot of that. We know that. Yeah, that would be me. Just great reputation. Just do it. You know it better than me. Yeah. What about magnets? Are they still big? It's still in. We, uh, we we love the magnet. But, of course, I love the idea of it. The idea is perfect, the product is perfect, but it's really niche. So it's really, really niche. It's for a person that have less dexterity. So a couple of, uh, of our clients, uh, ordered the magnets for a person that have, um, uh, Parkinson's or. Yeah. Yeah. So they have some trouble to, uh, remove their prosthesis. Yeah. The magnet is just awesome because you just drop it in the mouth. And who finds its own place? Oh, that's exactly. Yeah. I remember talking about it years ago, and I just thought I was like, at first I was like, magnets. Yeah, those were like, so 80s. Yeah. We launched it the year, uh, at ideas in 2023. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, yep. What else do you guys have? I mean, anything else that's new or exciting? A lot of things. Uh, the latest things that we worked also is all the photogrammetry, uh, digital workflow. Of course, it grows fast. Uh, so we, uh, we work with a lot of, uh, scanner, uh, to in the photogrammetry as. Dental uh micro mapper shining 3D. Uh, so we, uh, we are working on the workflow to simplify this. I don't know if you want to talk a little more about the workflow. The idea is to to just be able to accept those cases because now photogrammetry is a big thing. So everybody wants at least to try it or to work with it. And once you you buy that that scanner, well you want to you better use it. So you spent a lot of money. We just wanted to make sure that yes, we can accept those cases. And how how do we accept it? And how easy can it be for you to use it and send me the case? So we worked for the past like six months closely with company Micro Mapper, having chat with their specialists and just understanding exactly how their system works, how it's done. And now we can work with all of those companies. And as you know, photogrammetry is the next big thing. Oh yeah. So it's so accurate. I shared a cab with a oral surgeon this morning that brought photogrammetry up and said that there's a new device, um, that you can use on your phone. Yeah, that's the new thing, right. So we saw that, and I was like, oh yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that was pretty enlightening for me. We need to be ready for that. Yeah, yeah, I'm ready for it. I don't want to. We know you love that. Yes, yes. Anything else I can do with my phone? I'm game. Yeah. Yeah. True. That's totally worth it. So, yes, we saw the presentation yesterday from Big Dental. Was very good, very interesting. Yeah. And I also went to true abutment. They had that in the and they have with the iPad. The iPad? Yeah. Yeah. Both works fine. Yeah. Yeah. I, I haven't tried it personally, but I'm guessing that if they propose it and they put it out there, it's because it works. Yeah, but these companies must come to you to say we want to make sure you're a part of this. Yeah. Yeah. I would hope to try also all the process. Uh, of course, because we are doing a lot of full arch. So these are more complex. You do complex case? No, we do a lot of things, but we do a lot of them. But of course, they implement full arch, uh, with, with, uh, the photogrammetry. You got a lot of things to scan. So we're a good test to say, okay, send it to us and also send us a physical, uh, print so we can just say, okay, what was it? Uh. Fair enough to, uh, to say. Is it it is precise or not? So. Yeah. We're good. Uh, partner, let's say that to test. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. What about the contest? You should still do the contest. Yeah. You must hook up. So. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're right. We, uh, we put a little pause on that. Okay. It's not just me. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, I mean, we have a lot of interest this week, uh, to the contest internationally, so of course, we want to, uh, get back with that contest. But in another way, we want to reinvent it a little bit. So maybe in a couple of months you will hear that. Uh. We're back. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. No. It's exciting. Yeah. We've had so many guests that we're in the contest that won the contest. I got second place. I mean, it's just such a great way to meet people and showcase their work. Compete with the best. Yeah. The best. Make yourself better because you want to. We can present them exactly that. You can possibly. I'm glad I hear that you pause because I really thought I was missing out. No. Yeah, it's only a pause. We want to get back into to continue promote the the the awesome job that dental tech do. It's it's just a big platform with, uh, great partners as Amanda mailbag Vita. Uh, just to. Yeah, a platform to showcase how how good they are and internationally. So you're already here first. Stay tuned. Master Cup coming back. Yeah, it's coming back. It's not dead. We're we're getting it back. Hey, just to finish, I want to give you a little something. Oh, we have gifts. Of course. Of course. So, as you know, the little cap with the. Oh, there you go. Needed this over this trip. And I burned my bald spot. Maple syrup. Maple syrup. Oh, yeah. So, you know, um, of course I love it. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, was that your idea? Your team's idea? Yeah. Team idea. That's awesome. Thank you. A can of maple syrup from Quebec, Canada with the Panther. And they really want you can't get better than that. No way. Yeah. That's awesome. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Thank you. Keep. Keep rule. Keep running the world on this stuff. You guys are just killing it, I love everything. Oh, yeah, especially the marketing. Especially the five millimeter thing. The 5 million. I mean, he's going to be thinking about that on the plane ride home. I think we will talk once more on that topic now, on every text I get from every doctor. Do you think I have enough room? The answer will always be yes. Yes, but I have only one solution for you. Yeah, and it's the BFB, the fusion Fusion bar. You'll be seeing a lot of them. Thank you. Gentlemen, have a great show. Thank you, thank you. Bye. You know how to pronounce her name? You're good to go. Barb and I are talking with someone that we met, actually in Mallorca, Spain, last May. Lecturing? Of course. Yeah, yeah. And you were. You had a talk with our good friend Christina Vitality. I love seeing her last night. I know I'm always scared. I know I always pause, I know, am I saying it right? So you're a doctor I'm going to go with. Emir. Very close. Oh, yeah. Emma. Emma. Yeah. Because in English, it's spelled e m e r r. That's much easier. Emma. So it's just got so many vowels because it's an Irish name. Gaelic. Yeah. O'Connell. Yeah. O'Connell. Perfect. That's easy for you. Is that. Is that C. Is it supposed to be uppercase? Yes. And also it's supposed to have another LRO2 L's at the end. Well, they really messed up. I want to go talk to a line. All right. Okay. I'll be right back. They didn't align the name. That is. That's actually funny. Well, you're one of the heroes because you're on the wall. Yeah. I've always wanted to be a Wonder woman. No, you are beautiful. I don't know if we explore the other side. Yeah. I mean, here we are. We're day four into this xkcd. Booth has these giant pictures of people they're calling heroes in digital dentistry. Yeah. So, Christina. Katrina. Christina. Christina G's. Christina is one of them. Uh, who else do we know? Daniel byrne. He's been on the podcast. A bunch of others. And you know Michael Stanley. Yeah. You can't forget him, but you're on there. Yeah, I know, it's amazing because I was a I was a virtual unknown. I've been under the radar for a long time. Um, I've worked for 33 years now as a dentist. You're been a dance for 33 years in Ireland and, you know, in Scotland. Scotland. You're Scottish? No, no. I'm Irish. You practice. But I practice. He's going home. I know it's been a long time. I got it. Please excuse me. I'm American and it all blends together. I know these countries are all like. Okay, so you're in Scotland right now? Yeah, I'm in the capital city of Scotland. Edinburgh. Beautiful city with the castle. So yeah. It's gorgeous. You should come visit. No, my wife went there last year and she swears we are moving there. It's beautiful. It's got a great quality of life. The only thing you might not like is how chilly it gets. And that's why I keep telling her. I'm like, we live in and I want to go colder. No, warmer. And you also work with Christina? I work with Christina on Steve Campbell also. And actually, I also work with Ashley Byrne. So they are my technical go tos. So what's it like? How did you get into digital? You know what? I got into digital because I saw Gillian Caplan, who's a dentist in the UK. Um, presented a talk in 2007, and I got into Cerec technology at that time, which he made it look really easy. Oh my God, it was so hard. And we had to use powder and tried that. The powder scanner. Correct. That's how old I am. But then I was obviously trying it. Yeah. Red. Calm. Blue calm. Omnicom Prime scan. Yeah. So I've had them all. But what you realise is how difficult it is for your technical team and how if you don't prep right. You can't blame the technician. Yeah, I mean, that is so obviously. Yeah, but I'm the technician, though. Yeah. So it teaches you a lot about. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you become the technician, you can't blame anybody. Yeah. Anybody. And then having that digital visualization of where you've maybe not prepped enough is such a good learning tool for us all. Doctors don't see those areas because they still send me how much you scanned it. I know you saw it, but why did you leave it? Why didn't you take it now? Sometimes when we're working, especially on a lingual side of a tooth. One if you're not wearing, like, good magnification. Yeah. Two if you're retracting that with your left hand and you're. Well, it depends which hand you are, but it's hard to see. I gotcha because that can be very bulbous in a molar. Yeah. And you can have taken a prep of it, but not enough for the thickness of material, the minimal thing. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So often, and especially younger people, they're always so scared of prepping a tooth. Yeah. You know, they are. They're scared to take away too much enamel or too much dentine. And of course, yes, we want to be as minimally invasive, but we also have to be enough invasive to get the technician to be able to do their job. Yeah. No excuses. You couldn't see it? Come on. Yeah. It's tricky. So you started with the Sirona? So I started, yeah, so I started. So I was doing. But of course, still for big work, you still had to, you know, go send it through the lab and all of that. But what was amazing for me was immediate communication. So you sent the scan, they could come back to you and go, that's not good enough. Yeah. And immediately you could while the patients there. So why aren't you using labs in Scotland? So what do I do? Well, no, I do not. Yeah, because when you find a love, you love. Are there labs in Scotland? I'm asking if I have to move there. I need to find it. There are gaps in Scotland and there are good labs in Scotland. But I know, I know, I know you form a bond with people and then you're there. Work there. Yeah, there, there. Work is reliable and consistent and that is we don't want to bring a patient back. Like literally you want to see the patient for as minimum time as possible. And then, you know, that's also why I didn't get into ortho because I don't really want to see the patient multiple times. It's too slow. I move faster than that. I'm. Yeah. My name actually, in translation is Swift. That's what it means. It really means swift. So I've always tried to do anything slow. Correct. It's too boring. I think you get a lot of patience with that translation. They're like, I want to get in. I want to get out. I want to be done. That's why I decided to use the technology to be able to deliver on the day. Yeah, immediate immediacy, because I could see a lot of well off of patients time per but well off. So Dennis in Scotland doing this at the time I would think so I had to come to America. I went to Phoenix. I flew for three days to Phoenix to learn how to do the Cerec guide to, to be able to do guided surgery. And then I taught the guys from Dan's place, Sirona in the UK. How did you do it? Oh that's hilarious. I know they did not know how to use the tools to set up the parameters, to set the heights, you know, to put the guides in. So I taught them how to do that. So I was getting opportunity to speak from starting to teach very early. Yeah. In that journey. And then I came over to excited because they were trying to get more women to speak, which was amazing. They've done I know Love Experience is Sirona, which is a very closed system. Yeah, yeah. When did you branch out to XO CAD, wouldn't you? Well, so I start using Excel plan with Steve. So I started to play about with that a little bit. And so the thing about, um, the dance play system is it's great, but really for single tooth. Yeah, and even the guide was for a single tooth. You couldn't you had to then do multiple guides if you were milling them. So if you wanted to do more than one implant at a time, you had to use a different system. So and so extra card then safe could print them. I could also, you know, um, he could we could lay us really quickly through that. So yeah, it's a great system. Steve. Steve. Right. Steve I love that guy. He's he's he's good. Yeah. So. So your first introduction to exo was exoplanets. Yeah. Exoplanets. So but then because I use Steve so much for my restorative like aesthetic work. Um, they always use the small design tools from the exoplanet art. Um, and so they send you that visualization. So I approve that. And then they do the design. So we're really working really closely. So although I do a lot of work myself and in the team we've taught all my staff can do, by the way, the staining and glazing and yeah. So the nurses. Yeah. So all the nurses have been taught to do it. So you guys are still in. But that's why they all still are there. There's four of four nurses and they love it because they're then invested in the care of the patient. So they want to make that tooth look beautiful and they want to see how it looks. So they're there from the beginning right through. And and also they get paid more. So they've got more responsibility. But it means I am delegating, so I've got less to do. And so, you know. So you have a mill. Yeah. We've got a mill and we've got like. Then we bond on to Tydeus to do the singles for the employees and the workflow. Yeah. With, with all of the system Prime scan, prime paper Prime. Yeah. All of that. And then, um. Yeah. Great. It's a great scanner. Yeah. So, so. But then I had to learn to use Ichiro. So I got Ito because I wanted to see the five d that they had to do early caries detection. Yeah. And I wanted my nurses to learn to scan with that so that we could scan every single patient coming through the practice so that everybody has a virtual patient. Yeah, they are a virtual patient. And they can see the changes because for patient education there is no better tool than a scanner. So patient comes in first appointment. Scan them with an eye. Yeah. That detects helps you detect carries help. You just are aware of ortho and you've got you've got the baseline. You know how they started and also medical legally. Actually it's a really good tool because you know they can't argue with where they were on that day. Wow. So it's about that. So in the UK now we've we've got very litigious not so much in Scotland but in the rest of the UK. It's really quite horrible for dentists because a lot of you've heard that. Yeah a lot of patients are suing their dentists and you know, so if we haven't heard that. Yeah. So if you, if you want to protect yourself. Yeah I know it's so horrible. The trust is kind of gone. But this these tools digital tools build trust because the patient can see and they're invested. If you see yourself on a screen looking at your mouth inside that dark hole that you don't know anything about becomes a reality. So what are they doing about like you, you misdiagnosed or lots of things, and they're like wanting money back. And if they do, you know, if they get a big treatment, they know that they can potentially get them turn around and not pay for it. That's horrible. It is horrible. It's a kind of it's quite. Yeah, it's quite negative. It's quite negative. Yeah I know it's it's hard and it's hard for young graduates now because they're coming out to this world that's vastly changed. And they haven't really had the same amount of clinical skills. So it's kind of we're we're losing. It's it's really hard. I don't know how we're going to change it, but obviously digital goes a long way to help in that in terms of even educating our young graduates. Because when you prep and you can see and if you've got a mentor, it makes it. Yeah, it makes it so much easier. So yeah. So when a patient's ready for restorative is that when you switch over to the prime scan and then uh, so yeah. So if I'm doing, if I'm doing um, the single type of dentistry that we do, that's all prime scan and yeah, we just do it. Um, so we, we're using the two scanners. Um, but I think, I mean, prime scans are really easy to use, and it's hard to get the girls to use the material sometimes because it's a little bit more technique. It is because I got scanned, yes, a couple of weeks ago. And the doc came in and she moved my jaw this way to get it back there. Yeah. And she didn't know that. And she was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. And she missed that part of it. But yeah. Yeah. So there is a learning curve. But I think the biggest thing is not to close yourself off from that learning. I met this young guy who's working for a line, he's 27 and a dentist in Germany, but he started working for a line because his practice that he started working in was still analog and was very negative about it. I was like, I need to go. He just felt like he wasn't doing what he could. He wasn't doing his full potential against digital at this point. Honestly, he's had his lecturer in months. A professor had given them a lecture saying that digital would never replace analogue. Wow. And he's only 27. Wow. It is crazy. He needs to read all that work that's been done in the US. I mean, the whole idea is like, it's actually more accurate to do it with a scanner because you don't have the steps. I mean, if you cast a model, if you haven't put the relationship of stone to water or whatever. Oh, of course there's errors. If you use tap water, you're messed up. I mean, just a simple little thing. And we don't, you know, we're not thinking like that. It's. It is there. The scan has captured. And now with the cameras, someone still telling young Dennis that. Is that not that bad? That's insane. But, you know, it's like, so 20 years ago. But I've thought about that a lot. When there's a professor who has been the person who has got the knowledge they experience, they're scared of digital, they're scared of losing their job because they can't teach the new digital. But I don't even know if it's that. I think it's that they don't want to be seen to be the student again. Oh, psychological. Yeah. But. Because they would have to go back. And also, if you think about how much my children use their screen. Oh yeah. They can do everything digitally. I was at breakfast today, and a guy told me his two year old went up to the television and tried to swipe it. Oh that's horrible. But so true. But so crazy. I know, but they are so digitally aware, so digitally intuitive. You know, compared to me, even I've been doing it for a long time. But I still am. Like, my kids can teach me, buy and sell me on my phone and on my on my oh my God, it's awful. Yeah. And did you see the thing that Christine did with the all the words from TikTok? You know, obviously. And I was just like, oh my God, my kids can read that and understand it. I don't I'm going to pause and Google the word. Exactly. What does this mean? I know it's a new language. So what do you think of the new XO CAD software? Oh, I'm sure you've beta tested it, correct? Well, I haven't actually, but I've got I've got it now and I'm going to be using it when I get home. So I'm getting some tuition from them. So when I go back to the UK. So do you think that that's going to help even more? Obviously I, I mean I'm excited to start using it to see if I can use it because I know, well, maybe I'm not allowed to say, actually, I think they're going to open some platforms that I'm not going to maybe I'm not sure if I'm like, okay, so I think that you can listen to it. Yeah. So scratch that. Um, core is going to do a relationship with. So cut. What I think? Yeah. You can't release that. I don't know, but that's exciting. Yeah. It's exciting. So which would then mean that some of that design capability. Could be. That'd be the first time anything from that supply ever opened up. Yeah. But by the way, by that, I'm not going to say that, but it's true. It's true. But, you know, there is for me, there was a logic to having their closed system. And if you think about this from a dental precision point of view, if you've got a system where the x ray machine, 3D x ray, the, um, tools to design the machine that's been done, everything has been calibrated. Oh, yeah. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, it's a great workflow. Yeah, but to work together, then you're not introducing an error there. Because sometimes if we plan on a different software and you don't know if that that has been correctly calibrated on the printer too. If you started, then how do you know that that is going to give you exactly where, especially if you're going close to the nerve or the sinus, right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you want to be very confident in the surgical guide so that you're not putting an error there yourself, because we don't want it tilted or we. No, no yeah I agree. So so you open systems and I get a CBC from a doctor. The first thing my software goes is we cannot read the greyscale, so we cannot make positive that this shows density. Are you ready to continue? I know because it's not calibrated. Correct. So of course you can just go okay. So so that was the attractive thing for me in using the same software and hardware. Everything designed 100%. And when one of the big things in dental implants that we have got to get our heads around is, first of all, we're doing them on young patients who might live till they're over 100. Yeah, right. That is a long time, of course, something that we do not know if it's going to survive. Really? Yeah. We still don't know because it's not been around for long enough. But if we put that in absolutely, perfectly and into the right person, the right bone, the right parameters and the right emergence, etcetera, etcetera, all of those little things, then the chances of it surviving are greater. You might have a shot at it. Yeah. But if you think about it, when you put something in and I did this in my early days, I know that I didn't do it as well or as precisely as I might now do it. Yeah, yeah. Well, and then and then sometimes you look back at that and you go, actually, that might have developed that problem because of what I did that's got a. Oh, God, that's really bad. Yeah, it's like eating those extra 100 calories every day. You don't notice it until a year or 2 or 10? Yeah. Ten years. Sometimes it takes for the to show. And you know, I so my thing to get down is to be pretty profound. Better. Yeah. And to do better for our outcomes for our patients is we have to be try to excel in that precision. Yeah. And I mean, all of you do that right on the bench. That's why we do it all. Yeah. So yeah. So but the better we are at doing all the bits that we do, the more chance there is of everything being out about loving me. Yeah. So do you check every design? Yeah. So whomever you're working with sends you. Yeah. We have to take a look at it. Yeah. Do you show it to the patient or do you do? Yeah. Well, if we're doing, um, if we're doing a smile design, the patient is always involved. Yeah. Um, before we even before we actually even cut anything, we are touch them that we want them to invest. And and themselves, if you get what I mean. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you done the video ones yet? Yeah. I've got them. That's on my talk this afternoon. And I've got the translation because she's so Scottish that you won't be able to understand it. So it's got subtitles. Oh. That's funny. I never thought about that. So it shows the video of their restoration. It shows after done at both. Well, what it does is it shows them what they're going to look like. Yeah. And it's side by side. Their existing dentition. Yeah. Them talking and then them talking with the new teeth. It is incredible. And both of the people that we did it for because we tested it out and we're using it and presented it in, in Majorca. Yeah. Both of them. The first thing they say is wow. Wow. Wow. And one of them says wow, wow, wow. Yeah. And they're both emotionally moved by seeing themselves with the teeth. The smile that they always dreamed of for you. Oh, God. Absolutely. 100%. Let me see if I understand this. But the lab still has to do the full digital workup. As if. The case was in her hands, right? They do? Yeah. On the, uh, the planning software. So is this something that these labs charge you up ahead? So how does this. They don't charge for the digital bit. Um, but if I then move forward with it, and I want to obviously get a mock up to put in. Yeah. Then, yeah, you pay for that. But they still do the work to get you that video. Yeah. But I mean it on their end. But I think yeah I mean I think the thing is that there's going to be a greater chance of the person getting that. And, and I think for Christina, when she did it, she said that, you know, it doesn't take her that long to do just. I mean, it's really not the final. It's not got the nuances of the, you know, all of the anatomy and everything. It's really just putting the teeth where they need to be and actually also does a part of that. So you can check does it prepped or anything at this point. Oh yeah. So they're just overlaying and changing. Correct. I get you I thought you were prepping and then you're. No no no no no no no no no no. Before we it's like before we. Yeah. Before we do diagnostic wax. Correct. Without even in a in a virtual form a video form. Yeah. It's it's so powerful. Honestly, it is amazing. Yeah. And of course, I've only started using Invisalign, so I only started using that, um, about 18 months ago. And now there's patients of mine that have been my patient for 30 plus years who are getting Invisalign because I'm awake to the fact that their teeth are hard to clean and and they maybe I've never said to them or, you know, I've never said, do you like your teeth? I've never. It's not. I've not even considered it really? Because they've got a healthy dentition. Their teeth are beautiful. They're really new. Why are you why are you so late to the party? I think I always just thought if somebody wants ortho, they're going to ask me and they're going to go to another and they're going to go to. And then I'll refer them to an orthodontist. And I've got an I work with a specialist orthodontist. So he's there and I've got a friend who's an orthodontist. They go there, they go there. Invisalign. Well, he does smile. Oh, yeah. So, yeah. Close enough. But yeah, I mean, not really, but but I, um, I'm only really doing Invisalign go. So it's mainly just for like 5 to 5, and it's very controlled they say. Correct. Exactly. So yeah, I'm I'm controlled. So many people could use that little tweak, you know, as we age. Do you know what it is? Because as we age, we show more of our lower teeth because our face falls. So actually, the implication on the lowers isn't as important until you're over 40. Interesting. You're so beautiful. I'm still just. That's really profound. No, but when you look. When you look, that's why people who are over 40 and over 50, they're my main clientele. Wow. For. For ortho and I. So I mean, obviously the kids get it done. The kids get it done anyway, so they're all getting it done. But it's that group that's getting older that never got the chance to have ortho, but they can now afford it as well. They've got to that stage and they're looking at their teeth more aesthetically because everyone looks. No, no, the British mouth used to just be whatever. If you've got your teeth, you're doing well. You're good to go. Are changing, I hope. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, but in certain social classes. Yeah. So we've still got a problem. Yeah, a big problem. So with the young, we've always heard that. Yeah. I mean, the UK's main reason for a child under 12 getting a general anaesthetic is still number one reason to get teeth out. Jeez. And that's 12. Yeah. And that's been the same since I graduated at 30 for one of three years ago. Yeah, that and everybody's suing you. This is a it's not. It's not good. Yeah. We need more dental education for the general public. Yeah. Accessible. Easy to. You know, obviously you're followed by a lot of people who are dentists and who are in the industry and want to hear what we've got to say, but we're not reaching our public at the levels that we need to. I know yes, we still we've got a problem and it's down. It's people that have got other social issues, lots of problems. There's lots. And by the way, yesterday somebody showed me a TikTok of people getting all their teeth out and having dentures on six implants, upper and lower or four at the top, whatever. Yeah. And and that's a trend. They had 12.9 million views. There are it's bonkers. And we're not getting that reach for people looking to bite prevention. Or we know there are quite a few influencers, I guess you call them that are advocating because of their to pull your teeth. Yes. Yeah. And you should see them when they take them out. By the way, they still look like my granny did. And the reason I became a dentist, which was she had false teeth and it was they put them and they look great. And of course they do. They're doing good advocating. I just hope they're not pushing people to. Why would you advocate that? They are. Yeah, that's that's that's exactly what they're doing. We hired somebody at our lab years ago. And he actually he wasn't in the industry. He just came in as like a part timer. But he wanted to get his teeth. Just to get a denture because his teeth were messed up. Probably easier for him. Yeah. And I'm like, no, dude, I know. Save him some Invisalign whiten. You'll be fine. Yes, because we, Miguel and I were talking yesterday and we found out that we had in common. Our grandmothers got their teeth out for birthday present or wedding present? Oh my word. Back in Ireland. Wow. That's like both of your grandparents. So his birthdays, his grandparents and my grandmother. Wow. That's my grandmother back then. I guess that's what you did. Because dentistry was 21. Oh, my word. For my 21st birthday. 1/16 birthday. His mother as a present. Well, I hope they don't do that nowadays. But that is what these people are, okay? They've got implants to retain their data, but that's what they're advocating. Yeah. And it's like, oh my God, your grandma. They're gonna have implants. No, no. She just had alveolar ridges that were gone. And she looked scary without her teeth, which is why I woke up in bed beside her after having a nightmare. I got in bed and then I was woke up beside an old hag that I didn't recognize. That was my granny. You're gonna be like, I want to be a dentist. Yeah, well, no, I wanted to find out how to stop myself losing my teeth. Wow. So I then obviously I was okay at school, and I kind of. And then. Yeah, but. But when I was 13, I went to six different dentists in the local town without my parents, by the way, I just went each time I had a six month checkup, I went and I went and I went until I found someone that I liked. And it was a lady and she had beautiful teeth, and she taught me how to brush my teeth, and it was amazing. That part of you. Weird? A bit weird. I'm a bit weird. Weird? A lot smart, though. It's like finding somebody that you like their hair and you ask them, who's your hairdresser? Same mentality. And I think then that's why my passion for helping people to stop losing their teeth is so strong. So. Yeah, well, that comes through. Yeah. I mean, and I wish it's what we want in your countries to get better. Yeah. And I'm going to try and help the patients involved. Yeah yeah yeah I'm going to I am I've got I'm 55 and I've got five more years to work. And I'm going to spend that five years trying to get the public on board with dentistry. I love it. And so I might get you over to talk on my podcast when I know when I get it going. That's great. Well, thank you for coming on. We know you're busy. Anybody in the public can listen to this podcast? Yes, we we got to get them I know, but that's it. But it's direct. And the traffic you know it's getting and making it that they want to they're interested to find out what what we do and why we do it. They want to keep them. They don't want to lose them. We want yeah. We need a documentary like Supersize Me or one of those famous ones. We want fame. You know what we do and we need to. We need to disabuse the public of their views of dentists, their views of dentistry, and their views of why you should have your own teeth forever. Forever? Yeah. It's so weird an industry that makes a lot of money replacing them. We sure do advocate for you to save them. Yeah, exactly. Isn't that weird? I know, but isn't that so good? Yeah, yeah. It actually shows we've got a moral center. Thank you. Most of us do. Which is true. I know there are a few that don't. Of course, there's always rogue traders. Yeah, well, doctor O'Connell. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Or whatever. You look beautiful as a hero. Yes, obviously you are. You blow up. Thank you. Thank you. You're two kids. Thank you so much. No problem. It's been a pleasure. So thank you to you. Yeah. Thank you. Big thanks to XO, Kat for giving us the space to talk to ple, Derek and Doctor O'Connell. You know, Elvis and I have always loved the panthera for bringing us innovative ways to help patients in super pretty boxes and beautiful. I know, and after talking with Paul and Derek, we have learned that it takes a team to do what they do and to grow how they have grown. And Beatrice. We love. We love her. It was smart to bring these two on board many, many years ago. We absolutely enjoyed getting to know doctor O'Connell and all that she is doing for digital dentistry in Scotland, and she looks amazing on the wall, saying it's always good to get the clinical perspective, and we think that she is doing everything right by working with really good labs and getting the design done in a video. So she does the video design first, which is pretty awesome. Let's just hope all those issues of patients suing dentists, which is B.S. don't come over here. Yeah, stay over there or just go away altogether. Yeah. Better. Yes, please. All right, everybody, that's all we got. And believe it or not, next week. The last from ideas. Oh my God. Really? Yeah. Can you believe it? It's so low with, uh, Orlando. Right? Uh, we got a couple solos, and then it's into Florida. So you. All right. Cool. We'll talk to you next week and have a good one. Yeah. Bye. Greetings. The views and opinions expressed on the voices from the bench podcast are those of the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or voices from the bench, LLC.