Hi folks of the community. I'm Laura Prosser, the digital marketing manager here for IWA North America, and I would like to invite you to start following us on Instagram. It's your chance to obtain exclusive updates on product announcements, industry news, upcoming educational events, and heartwarming stories about our local team and industry professionals. So let's get social together! Simply start following us on Instagram at. That's Instagram at. We'll see you there. Welcome to voices from the bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email at Info Voices from the bench and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 376 of voices from the bench. My name is Elvis. My. My name is Barbara slash. Grandma. This week. Grandma. Barb. How is the baby? Everybody healthy? Yes. Everybody's healthy. Nice. Super fun, super fun. Super fun. And you know what? I really don't mind being called grandma. That's great, because that's the only thing I'm going to call you. That's the only thing I am. I have all these little, you know, nicknames, and they're like, what do you want to be called? I'm like, grandma, that's all we want. Oh, that's right. You didn't go through the whole meemaw and the, uh, granny. I don't think that surprises you, does it? I'm really not that high maintenance. Even though the public thinks I might be high maintenance. Just kidding. I'm really not. I thought you would go with, like, you can call me Queen. And how are you? I'm doing really well. I mean, just working. You're rolling with work? Yeah. All of a sudden I've grown this area with lots of, uh, full arch surgeries. So I'm doing a lot of stackable surgical guides, whatnot. Yeah, I really I really enjoy it. I know you do. You totally geek out on it. I do, and my eyes roll in the back of my head, but that's good. But you know what? I don't mind working a lot, because this is the week that I get a little vacation because of the podcast. Oh, and I don't. But keep going. Maybe. Maybe so. Starting this Friday or Thursday night, if you get to the hotel, it's the FDLE meeting. You know that annual Florida Dental Lab Association meeting that happens every year in Orlando? It's pretty amazing. It's one of my favorite things. It's unbelievable. I've said this before, but there's not a lot of small state association meetings anymore. And this in Texas, they do such a great job. Yeah. So I'm guessing we're not really going to convince anyone this close to the meeting to actually go. So if you're already going to be there and we hope you are. Make sure you come and see me and hopefully Barb on Saturday. Hint hint wink wink. I know I say that with a chuckle because I still haven't made any sort of flight, so that's how late I am. That's how different we are. Bah! I'm so bad. I'll do my best to make flights like the day before you have to go. So. Pretty much. Yeah. God, I don't know how you survive. I don't either. And hopefully Barb will be there on Saturday, but we're going to be at the Jensen Dental booth now. You know Jensen. Heck, yeah. Meow, meow. Lots of other things, but meow meow meow. We were there last year. Great location. Great group of people. So excited. Also. A good friend of the podcast, Josh Williams from GPX digital. I saw him on Facebook. Yes. Thank you Josh. Yes, this is cool. This guy doesn't even ask to do it. He just does it. And I love him for it. They're tiny little dentures printed out of metal with their logo on them. Mandy posted that today that she received hers. So yeah, I'm a little upset that Mandy got them before I did, but that's okay. I'm gonna let it go, let it go, let it go. They're going to be super limited supply because, you know he's only going to print so many. So make sure you stop by and get one. Also be on the podcast. It's going to be great this Friday and Saturday for DLA. All right. So this week we are back with another run of conversations that we got while at the exo CAD booth at the IDs 2025 in Cologne, Germany. I have not mentioned this. Maybe I did when we got back, but exo cad every day had a lunch trailer. I'm not a snob when it comes to food. But I'll tell you, this place was amazing. It was like every mile from where we were. But it was a well, yeah, it was a bit of a it was a bit of a walk. But you'd go out to this trailer and this, this lady who ran this whole show, this whole like back, I don't know what her role is, what her name was, but she had this thing down to a science. You got in there, you got great food, you get to hang around, you talk to people. And she kept complaining because Barb never went. Because I was just going to say. She kept saying, why don't you eat lunch? And I'm like, oh, I don't. I fast all day, I don't eat lunch. But I felt like she was my grandma and she was mocking me. I'm sorry, I don't eat, I eat, I drink. That's all right. I ate, I ate for both of us. That's just how I roll. I ate for both of us. I loved it, I thought it was great. It's so nice. They really took care of us, I'll tell you. I mean, we were just part of the family. Yes. So first up, we talked to a niece of a past podcast guest who is still relatively new in the industry. Amy Tate. Love her. So Amy grew up visiting her uncle Steve Campbell at Nexus Dental in the UK, and he's okay too. He's all right. We touch base with him a little later, and she always had an interest in what he was doing. But when she saw how Steve got to travel the world because of his dental work, she knew that she wanted to do it. So she comes on to talk about how she's in a three year online dental technology school, how she's being mentored in the lab, and of course, how she's also working at the lab. And that we meet a dentist from Egypt who is doing a lot more than dentistry. Doctor Rami Gammell got into dentistry because medical was too much and he has done nothing but succeed. He talks about dental industry, what it's like in Egypt, getting the first printer in Egypt, setting up a network of places that patients can get cone beam scans and iOS. And how his next venture is into education of the dentists as well as the patients. He doesn't have a lot of time. That dude sounds so busy. Yeah, I know. And then we meet the Canadian technician to the dentist, Pam Ream. Pam grew up in a dental chair as a child and took a huge interest in the profession, but honestly not wanting to put her hands in people's mouths. It wasn't long before she discovered dental lab work. After graduating college, Pam started working in labs and found her love of teaching. But now she's with Argon Canada, making sure that all the dentists have access to the training that they need to take their workflow. Digital. Awesome. So join us as we chat with Amy Tait, Doctor Raymie Gammell, and Pam Ream. Voices from the bench. The interview. Let me look at your nails. Holy moly. You do that yourself. No no, no. People keep thinking I can do it. I'm like, no way. You can do it yourself. I mean, I can do it right handed, but then switch it to the left and look. Yeah. Yeah. No, can't do it. So let's see your name. Amy Tate. Amy Tate. We can pronounce that. She's an easy one. Ideas related to Steve Campbell. Yes. The goat. Uh, Nexus dental lab. Nexus dental. Yeah. Okay, so you're his niece. Niece? Yeah. Yeah. We saw you yesterday. Yeah, he did really well up on stage. He's very good. So tell us, how did he get you into the Nexus? Well, wait a minute. Sorry. IDW's 2025 at the exo cad booth. Thank you. All right. There you go. Sorry. Okay. I don't know. When I was in school, I was floating around a bit, and I was not really sure what direction I wanted to go in. Yeah, but what Steve does always seem so cool. And my main thing that I really liked was I always wanted the opportunity to travel and work with technology and stuff. So he was like, oh, come down and have a little check out of the lab. So I went down and he let me do a bit of cad. He let me do a bit of the ceramics and stuff, and I was like, you know what, I like this. And then I was like, please, can you give me a job? And he was like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, please. So, so growing up. Yeah. Were you there at all? Yeah, I guess so. Um, it's right near his home. Okay. He lives very close. So sometimes when my sister and I would go and stay with them, he'd bring us in the lab. And it always looked cool. And the environment was really friendly. So you kind of grew up in the lab in a way, back and forth a little bit. A little, tiny bit. Yeah, I definitely saw it evolve as I grew up, because he started it when I was, well, ten years ago when I was 11. So I saw it get better and better. So what did you like best when when you got introduced, you said you saw a little bit of CAD, a little bit of ceramic. Oh, I definitely like the cad. The cat is my favorite thing. And if I'm honest, I don't really like the, uh, hands on stuff. It's not my jam. Yeah, no, there's a lot of technicians that are saying that these days. Yep. And they're just as needed. Yeah, honestly. So what do you do? Mostly? XO, CAD. Yeah, lots of academies, a lot of XO cad. Um, I do a bit of everything. I'm trying to learn everything. I've only been doing it for a year and a half, so I was just going to say, so you've been there a year and a half and you were already doing probably interiors, single posterior, uh, anterior work and posteriors and a lot of implant crowns. I like doing those because they're, they're more interesting than doing just the standard, uh, prep ground. So because you get to design the abutment and everything. So, uh, yeah. So Steve's trying to teach me a little bit of the abutment. I've just like. Dipped my toes into the abutments. It's a whole other realm of understanding. Scan bodies to the what implant it is. And so is he. Kind of like your trainer a little bit is. Are you over shoulder watching him and he's helping you and. Yeah. So actually when we're literally face to face in the lab, but the computers are, oh, the monitors in between. So it's like you're right there. So you pop your head over and say, yeah, I got a question. Basically, I'm like, Steve help! And he's like, I'm really busy right now. I'm like, I still need help. You need to come around. So I know in the UK there's certification. Become a dental technician, right? Are you going to do that or have you started or you have to go to the uni, right. For two years or three years? I'm at a university course, so I actually do a dental technician degree and I'm already doing it. Yeah, good for you. In my second year I basically started when I started working the same exact time. So I'm in my second year now, but it's four years, so I'm just about halfway through. But. Most of the time you just need a GDC registration. So there's different levels of courses you can do. Mine's a degree one, but some people will just do the qualification one. And it's like a BTec level if you know what that is. In the UK, it's like a step above A-levels but not a full degree. It's like a stepping stone. Yeah. How long is that degree or how long does it take to get that? I think they do it for three years. So that's still a long time though. Yeah, yeah, it's, uh, we only do it one day a week, so that's why it takes so long. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. It's like, uh. Is it online? Mine's online. But the other people in our lab who are on the other one go in one day a week to be taught and actually instructed by professors. So how do you choose? Yeah. Why did how do you choose between online and actually getting to go or do they give you the option. Uh, the reason I am doing the online one is because when I was like, Steve, please can I have a job? I'd missed the enrolment for the other one. So he was like, it's timing. We'll try and put you on this one, because I was the first one in our lab to actually do it. So I'm a test puppet. I was just going to say, now you've got other. How is it following? I really like it. I, I think it works really well for me because I didn't want to do any further studies after A-levels, and I was like, I want to do an apprenticeship and not be working studying all the time, but because it's all online and learning on the job, it doesn't feel like school anymore. It's just like, what is online? Like, what are you learning specifically like right now? So they teach us all the theory behind stuff online, and we're expected to learn the practical from our colleagues in the lab and be instructed by them. We're doing CAD at the minute, but we've done some prosthetics and some gold crowns last year, so we've done a little bit. Next year we get to do the ceramics and stuff. Looking forward to that. So how do you do that? So how do you do that online. So what what how do you do both. So do they give it to you and you take it to the lab. Yeah. So they will post us out models. So we're all working on the same. Oh yeah and stuff. And then we scan them in and do the work how we would do it and send it back to them. And then they'll grade it and everything. Do some people hand wax it and you can. Yes. However you get the end result. There's some instructions. So sometimes they're like you have to hand wax it, but sometimes they're like, you can do it in CAD or by hand if you want it. It's a bit flexible. They're trying to it's really good because the one I'm on is embracing CAD a lot more than the one the other people. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. It sounds that way. Yeah, it's quite open to CAD, but it's only just turned that way. Most of the other people you'll ask in the UK who are on the, uh, qualification courses, they don't do any CAD at all. Really? So you're like on the on the advanced level. It sounds like that to me anyways. Yeah. That trying to uh, I think from what I understand, the GDC in the UK is trying to encourage the, uh, learning institutions to modernize the course. Makes sense, because so many people use a CAD and 3D shape and everything every day in the lab, it makes no sense to teach the new people coming up how to do it the old fashioned way, when they're never going to do it, because they're always going to do it the digital way. Well, Elvis and I hear that a lot that the universities need to kind of catch up. Yeah. And I kind of agree, I think the the theory of you having to know the analog way. Is there really a point if you as long as you understand the fundamentals. Digital yesterday. Yeah. I just don't understand why you had to take the time to hand wax when you. No one's doing that anymore. Yeah, it seems a bit, um, like when they're like, can you make a 6 or 6 wax up by hand? And I'm like, well, I could do it in half the time if you just let me. So click, click click click. Do you kill it at this school on CAD because you use it. Yeah. All the time. That's the uh the funny thing is we're doing CAD this term, but the level of intensity you're already way past. Yeah. So they're just asking us to build some models in a special tray in CAD. And I'm like, okay, I want to do an interior finished I don't know. So is it your own time? You said it's for a day, but is it like when you get done, you're done for the day or do they like, is it like four hours, five hours, six hours? I do it on a Friday. So Friday is my college day. Yeah. Steve is very good at making sure I'm not like, asked to work too hard on the college days. If something's really desperate, I'll be like, yeah, it's fine. Yeah, yeah yeah, help. But mainly they try and leave me alone because it's quite difficult for me because I actually do it in the lab. But I chose to do it there. He said I could have done it at home, but I chose to do it. Yeah, all that energy going on. Otherwise I'd just like slack off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get home. I'm going to bed now. Yeah, yeah. But yeah. So sometimes it's quite difficult to not get sucked into like work. But the very everyone at the lab is very good at trying to not. For you? Yeah. I need help, I need help. No, I'm working or I'm studying. What do they do about you doing it in the lab? And if a, I don't know, test a quiz, I don't know. Can't you just ask somebody in the lab and. Oh, that's a great question. I bet you could. But yeah, that's I don't know. I don't, because it's like you're not watching like a recorded video. You're watching an instructor that's live. Yeah. So, um, they have what they call observed exercises. So once a term, either they will put us on a zoom call and ask us to place the camera on our hands and make sure we're, oh, they can see another hand to do the exam that they do. Yeah. Or they've got the camera and they can watch you, you know, work. Yeah. That's, uh, how they try and do it. I think they find it quite difficult to make sure. Sometimes they look down. There's three hands in there and they're like, oh, my hand goes away. And then there's just a man's hand comes in and it's like, okay. Uh, yeah. So they I think they struggle balancing, making sure people were not. You got to cheating. It's a little bit of a honest trust thing. Yeah. But, uh, so I think it's all down to my mentor. So one of the technicians at my lab has to be my mentor. So he's responsible for everything I do. Is it Steve? No. He was. Knowing him, he was away when we had to do all the mentor stuff. So it was, uh, Ian Baldwin, his. Business partners. So at school, they ensure that you find a mentor in the lab. Yeah. You can't do it without a mentor this kind of school. The online? Yeah, that is great. What does the mentor get out of it? Uh, just. Okay. Yeah. The pleasure of teaching and watching I grow and blossom. I wasn't sure if they had to be a special mentor. They had to register to be a mentor or take a class to mentor. There's some, um, instructional things that the colleges put out for the mentors, but they don't have to take another. They don't have to do a course or anything. Like, you wouldn't want me as a mentor as what I'm saying. So you can't just let anybody do it. I don't know what they do. I think they assume that the mentors know what you're getting in for. Maybe you'll be a mentor someday. Yeah. I'd like to be a mentor someday. Yeah. That's awesome. So, what's it like working with Steve? Uh, it's very good. I like it because he's always trying new things. It's not stagnant. He's like, oh, there's this new company. We're going to try something with that, and we're going to do this. It's not. Well, we know what we're doing and we'll just always continue doing that. Does he have this much energy all the time? Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Pretty much. He's got a lot of energy. It's sometimes it's like everyone's like, oh, it's a Monday. We're all hungover. And he's like, hi, guys. We're gonna do this today. And we're like, oh, Steve. Yeah, even this morning. Driver oh yeah. So much energy to like, dude, no. Yeah. He's, uh he definitely brings the vibes. This is your first idea? Yes, yes. What do you think? It's so much bigger than I thought it was. Yeah. Everyone told me it was going to be huge, and I was like, yeah, sure, it's huge. I got here and I was like, okay, yeah, that's huge. It's get lost huge. Like, have you walked around? Have you spent some time or I know he has to speak like every hour. It seems like yesterday. Uh, he has three talks a day, so. Yeah. Um, he's definitely encouraged me today. He was like, you were here yesterday. Today. Go off, explore, have a look around, which is what I'm going to do. Just make sure you can find your way back. Yeah? Yeah. Are you looking for anything or are you just going to wander or. No, I have absolutely no idea what's here. I'm just going to wander around because I haven't been. We'll see you Friday. Yeah. Yeah, I'll come back eventually. I'll make it back. There's a lot of dental chairs and dental equipment. Not just technical, but clinical a lot. That's what I've seen. The big technical stuff. Yeah. Lots of doctors, lots of dentists. Same thing. Really. So what's your plan? Are you, uh, taking over Steve's lab? Eventually. Let's get it out there. Uh, I don't know what his plan is for me. My plan? I really want to continue my education to a master's degree. Oh, wow. And then I want to lecture like Steve does. Yeah. Nice. That's what I love. How do you get a masters? What's that? So in the UK, you get your bachelor's degree, which is your normal level degree. And then you can. You're doing that now. Yes. Okay. So then you can go and do extra. So your bachelor's is like a wide range everything. And so that's for technology for years for general studies and other general studies. And then your master's is another two where you specialize okay in a topic and you do a big um dissertation on it. So it's like really in-depth research into one area. So you choose where you want to specialize. So what are you choosing CAD. I'm not sure. Specialize. Is that a notch? I think it maybe has to be more narrow than just CAD. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, maybe something to do with the implant planning or something like that. That's what I like that. Yeah. So. And I think it's technical enough if you choose too simple of a thing. Like they won't let you be a master. Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You have to be wanting to do research. Otherwise they're like, no, you're not wanting it enough. Yeah. Are you, uh, in the dental Instagram scene? Uh, not really, I because there's Beth Brown, uh, the party enamel is her Instagram. She went through the masters. Yeah. Yeah, she talks about that a lot. Yeah. So, um, one of the guys at our lab, he's done a master's degree with Cardiff Uni that I've actually gone with. He didn't do his bachelor's there. He went and did a master's after. Yeah. And his is in, uh. Something to do with ceramics? I don't really know, but it's something to do with materials and ceramics. Oh, wow. He does a lot of lecturing in interior morphology and a lot of teaching in that area. And so him doing that was like what prompted Steve to put me on the Cardiff course for the bachelor's, because then you have that leading on to the Masters if you want to do it. Yeah, that was really smart of him. That's great. And now is that it's your mom's brother or your dad's brother? So what's the relation? He's married to my mom's sister. Okay. So no blood relation between. God, yes. That's good. It's tough working with family. I mean, I'm sure it feels like family. Yeah. I mean, you know that. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So. And they're like, harder, harder, harder, harder. But it sounds like he's just a super great mentor and inspiring. And he's got a lot of passion. He's really good. It's, uh, it's nice that he's so passionate because it not just me. Everyone in the lab is driven by his Energy. Yeah. And it's not just like, stagnant because no one's pushing to do better. He's the one who's driving or being like, how many people are in Nexus? I think about 20 now. Yeah. That's why a lot of people. Yeah. It's been growing, I think, in the last couple of years quite a lot. So there's quite a few, um, other apprentices on this other course with me. So there's quite a couple of us that's coming through and trying to qualify and all of that. How many designers? Um, in the card, I think there's four that are qualified. That's pretty. Not including Steve. Steve is would make five. Yeah. Or ten. Yeah. So is it okay to design and not be qualified? All the apprentices have a person in the lab who's responsible for them. Okay. And their work. And they have to be instructed. And they're like, mentor, I guess Steve, was that unofficially for me? He taught me everything. Yeah. Made sure I knew what I was doing. It wouldn't be very good if someone didn't have a choice to do it. Right. Okay. So. Yeah. It's awesome. That's. That is amazing. Well, good luck to you. Thank you. Yeah. I think you're going to do fantastic. Thank you. I think next two years, we'll see you again and you'll be a major. That'd be great. You'll be on stage. On stage with Steve. No pressure. No. What are you going to talk about when you get on stage? Implants? Yeah. I really like the implants. That's where I want to go towards. That's what interests me the most. Yeah. Well, we'll see you two years on stage. Yes. We look at implants. Good luck to you. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. Rami. Camille. Camille. Camille. Rami. Camille. Yeah. So someone brought up a gentleman to us here at the exo cad booth at IDs 2025. And he says famous dentist from Egypt. And I'm like, heck yes. We want to talk to you from Egypt. Thank you. How are you, Rami? I'm good. It's a pleasure to be in the IDs again. I've been, uh, attending every season since 2013. 2013? Yeah, and I call it the World Cup or the Olympics of dentistry. How about that? Yeah, this is like the Olympics. It's a pleasure to be here, to meet you, to get to know you and to, uh, share with our audience also. Yeah. Awesome. So tell us about yourself. How did you get into dentistry in Egypt? Sure. Actually, I, I, I graduated from dentistry in 2006. Okay. And from day one, I knew that I didn't want to be a conventional dentist. Why did you even go into dentistry? A longer story. You want to go to the to the origins? Yeah, I want to go all the way. Yeah. Uh, I my family, uh, is of, uh, different background. Uh, my mother, uh, she's a medical doctor. Okay. My father, he's a university professor in, uh, science. Oh, yes. You came from some some perfectly. Yeah. So I wanted to to go into the medical. Uh, but, uh, I was seeing all the effort that my mom was doing. It was too much. It's a lot. Uh, and, uh, my father, he was a wise man, and he told me that, uh, dentistry is, uh, earth science, technology and engineering. Yeah. That's brilliant. And it's medical. Very true. It's going to be a mix that maybe you'd like. So, yeah, I went for it, and, uh, he turned out right. Wow. So you go through school. What was school like? Uh, school was, uh, was okay. It was, uh, back at the I started in 2001. So for those five years, it was conventional dentistry. There wasn't anything. A lot of education. Yeah. Uh, nothing about, uh, cone beam or 3D X-rays. Uh, different software like XO, CAD or all of that was not something taught to undergrad. And still, in the majority of dental schools, it's not still widespread. Yeah, we hear that. So it was conventional. Uh, so it, uh, confirmed that I like where I was, but, uh, there is more I want to look for more. So how to augment it? How did I find it? Uh, I graduated I was, um, in the university for a little bit afterwards. And then a friend of mine who was studying in, uh, France, in, uh, Toulouse. Uh, he he he knew that I was looking for technology. He told me there is a, uh, a diploma for one year. That's about, uh, in French imagery, 3D, uh, 3D imaging. Oh, wow. So I know you want to do something like that early on. Yes, it was in 2020 ten. Uh, and it was the only program worldwide available in that. And so I told him, I'm in. Let's do it. I started I had this, uh, hunger to to learn, uh, met with people. So the technology read. Where was this at? Uh, it was in France. You had to go to France? Yes, because it was the only one. Yes, but it was part time, so it was doable. And then I started to take what they call a career shift, not full. So I decided to, uh, downsize my, uh, dental work. Uh, regular. I had a clinic. I was doing implants. I was happy about that. And then I decided to, uh, uh, steer a little bit or pivot, as they call it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Business. Yeah. Uh, to, uh, uh, do more, uh, related to that technology. And in 2013, uh, I got the first 3D printer in Egypt that was dental. The very first? Yes. In all of Egypt. Congratulations. That was there was one that was in, uh, in a government institution, but it was the first one to serve the dental market. Wow. What printer was it? Uh, are we allowed to say, uh, brands? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, it was envisioned tech from Germany. Oh, yeah. Exactly. We know of that. Yes. Actually, I visited the factory. Right? Um, actually, it was 2000. Uh, I, I saw it in India. I was giving a lecture there. And. And you're giving lectures at this point? Yes. Wow. Because again, it was a fresh, uh, topic. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, I was blessed by being able to go to see different parts of the world and learn. And when I saw it in India, I, uh, visited the factory in Germany because, uh, it's in Germany. Yeah. In Virginia Tech at the time. Uh, and, uh, they had a printer, but they didn't have one for the dental. It was for hearing aids, customized hearing aids. Yeah, we've heard this. Yeah. So I told them the, uh, it's the same specs. We can work on it. Try the material. And they took, uh, the advice and changed the name and release it into dental because of you. Uh hum hum. Yeah. Good. Uh. Good opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. So then you picked it up and you went back to Egypt. I, I, I started a business focused only on providing, uh, uh, 3D printing and computer guided surgery, doing the planning and then providing the guides so that, uh, the doctors can do the implants for their patients. Doing surgical guides? Yes, exactly. What software were you planning? We were using it to guide from On demand 3D. Oh, that's a new one to me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I've never heard of that, have you? It was on the forefront at that time. Okay. And there wasn't any. I bet you it was very. So it was the very expensive in vision tech printer. And this software, if you want to start to ride the wave and be a first mover and early adapter. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. The concept of planning implants was not even around. It was very basic at the time. We're we're doctors accepting of this for the people who are struggling to use convict for planning for for even for diagnostics at first. Yeah. Yeah. So it was the very beginning of the wave. So we encouraged people to use the CBT and the implants and the guides. So you were actually lecturing. Advocating? Yes. I was going all around Egypt and the world talking and doing workshops. And because I, I believed in the message, I knew it was giving better care for the patients and the better everything and better. Exactly. And better quality of life for the doctor. So I was pushing for it because I saw the common good in it. And. The rest is history. So are you physically working the software or did you have somebody doing it at the beginning? I was doing everything by myself, and then for other doctors, for other doctors, and still running a practice part time and lecturing and lecturing. And then I started to downsize one side and increase the other one. And then growing people, growing a team, growing a company. Wow. And now we are around 70 people. 70. Yes, 70. Wait a minute, wait a minute. I started by Romy, and now we are 70 and Rommie and the 70 are more important than rommie. So what are you doing with these 70 people? I mean, printing. I mean, right now the business model developed more, uh, three divisions started in 2013. Only for printing. In 2015, we started also, uh, providing convexity and, uh, diagnostics in a one stop shop. So you can come the patient for, uh, the cone beam, the intraoral scans early back then. So a doctor would send a patient to your facility to get all those records because they didn't have that stuff. Wow. Exactly. And then we started opening many branches, scaling up the operations. Now we have eight branches of cone beam, cts and all that and manufacturing. And now we are starting another thing, uh, we call the, uh, the main company of called 3D vision, because we always said that, uh, the CBC and 3D imaging gives you eyes to see. So it gives you that vision. I like it. Yeah. In your mind. And so you can give a better, uh, option to your patients. And then, uh, we changed the name of the scan centers to try scan. Try, try try three. Uh, because it's an easier name for the population in Egypt. And then, uh, now we are launching the 3D vision education to the educate, uh, the region and Egypt, uh, with the digital dentistry and exo CAD and all that stuff. How do you stay up on that? You just keep going and going and say, I want to try this. So when I do this, I think I have a, a balanced, uh, life. Uh, you think? Yeah. My family, uh, my daughter, we have a good relationship. So, uh, and now it's more doable because of the team, as I said. Yeah. If it was me doing all of this. I believe in people. You cannot grow. Uh, no one man is an island. Uh, so I empower people. They grow. We grow together. Uh, they can have, uh, a good work in life. Uh, balance. Balance? Yeah. If you can say that, it's. Not as a cliche, but as a real value for us. Yeah. And for me also. And but I love what I do. That's what keeps me running. So what are you looking for at Ides? Anything in particular? Because there's so much to see, it's ridiculous. Usually I would take all the digital workflow, so I would see all the new scanners, all the, the new, uh, convicts, all the new, uh, phase scanners, all the new software, all the new manufacturing. Uh, milling, laser sintering, printing. So we go through the whole cycle again every year, see what's disruptive, what's new, what's happening? Yep. And then do you like, see, think to yourself, what am I going to invest in next? Like, do you already have, like a five year plan? Yes. I'm thinking I want to go here. Yes, yes, but don't tell anybody. Yeah. Uh, in the next phase, I want to invest in education. I want to educate people because the educated people will use the technology. I always say that to bridge the gap, the gap between the technology and the market, you have to educate people so that they can know digital density. They can buy the equipment and, uh, not afraid to use them. So I want to invest in 2025 heavily in education. And then, uh, the five year plan, as I said, I will not reveal it now, but but it has a lot of retire early. Uh, I'm not. I don't think so. I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. Good for you. So talk about. In Egypt? Yes. Most dentists do. They have intraoral scanners. Do they have CBC? Because you're providing a facility. But I imagine they're starting to buy them themselves. To give you a little bit of context about Egypt, we are 100 million plus population. 110. Sure. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So we have I always say that the 1% in Egypt is a lot of number. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So you have some clinics that have CBC scanners, but the majority of the population and the majority of the clinics definitely don't have CBC. Yeah. Now, with the scanners becoming more affordable, it's entering with the printer a little bit. Yeah. So, uh, my, uh, motto and one of my, uh, values is to to democratize digital dentistry. So those who can buy the whole solutions, uh, they are welcome. Uh, we love that. We we teach them also, and we work with them and those who can't. We are providing everything, uh, so that the patients, even in underserved areas, uh, can have better access to healthcare. And now we are also offering AI and reports in AI with very affordable price, because we want to serve the population and raise the bar for, uh, the quality of care in dentistry in Egypt for the population. How is the dental care in Egypt? I mean, that many people and that sort of I don't know if there's like a, a government kind of there is a there is there is many things. And as I said, there is very, uh, niche, uh, clinics that offer world class. Uh oh I bet. Yeah. Competing, uh, with many countries also, uh, and you would find the middle and you would find the governmental. You would find all of them at that level. Yeah. So our, uh, uh, social entrepreneurship endeavors. Also, uh, we see the vision and the responsibility to make all those work better as much as we can. Yeah, and it sounds like you're leading the way. Uh, listening. And you're leading. It's. My mind is leading. Yeah, and my people are leading, and I'm following my team. Is, uh, is Egypt printing 3D final restorations yet? Or, uh, actually, a couple of printers entered and a couple of resins entered the market this year. Nice. Yes. And we are excited about that. I'm excited. And, uh, always in digital dentistry. I don't like the hype. Yeah, I always call it hype. I always call it the digital dental revolution and not in the digital dental hype. So we are revolutionizing doing new stuff, but at the same time we want to validate. We want to make sure that what we are using is, uh, good. It's, uh, medium and long term is good. It's not causing any harm. Uh, so that it builds a solid foundation and grows. How's your labs in Egypt? Uh, fine. What do you mean? Like, are they large, or are they, like, specialized? Do you have a lot of in, like, clinical technicians that are working with Dennis in my company? Yeah, we have, uh, the CBC facilities. Uh, we call them the satellites, and we have, uh, Motherships got it. So you have the scanning everywhere? Yeah. Uh, and the the production is, uh, localized. For the printing. Okay. Yeah. So we have technicians, we have uh, uh, people that, uh, do the X-rays, that do the scans. So. Wow. Yeah. So where where do you use XO cad in this whole process? I started using xo cad in 2016. Actually, XO gave me the licenses at first, uh, as, uh, to, to try and to, uh, beta test also exoplanets. Smart of them. Uh, I should say I really like the company. Yeah. And at that time, it was, uh, the only software that was, uh, open that can take cells and gets cells out versus other players that were already in the market. Yeah. Uh, so we use XO cat for, uh, designs and for, uh, uh, preparing lots of stuff. Uh, but we faced the issue that, uh, the official licenses in Egypt, uh, were not, uh, very affordable, but now the company is adjusting them, and, uh, we are encouraging people and us to use them more in the designs and, uh, and guides for exoplanet, for example, you doing your guides through them. Uh, right now we are starting. But yeah, before we did it. Yes. But we think it's a great software and it's growing. And, uh, so your full fledged lab, you're doing crowns and things. No, no. Not yet. No. Not yet. Not yet. But you're going to, uh. We are planning, but we want to do it wisely. Because, as you saw, we are we try to build success. Uh uh, not slowly, but I would say strongly, but surely. Yeah, because sometimes it's quick. Sometimes. Yeah, Exactly. You seem to have a very niche like what you provide. I've not heard of this. Where? A center where doctors can send patients and get all of those. We are trying to be disruptive. And the business model in the in the in the quality in the, uh, in the communication, in the in the service. Everything. Yeah. Because it needs all of that to work well. Anybody doing digital dentures and, uh. Uh, not much, not much. Only in research. We help that in, uh, with some universities for research, but in day to day. Not yet. Have you seen one? Have you tried one? I mean, yeah. You like. Yeah. I mean, you're excited about it. I like, uh, but again, I always think how to make this being scalable and works for a bigger base. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well that's exciting. Well, thank you for telling us your story. My pleasure so much. My pleasure. Thank you. Awesome. I think you're our first from Egypt. Maybe. I don't know, but you're welcome to visit anytime and give me a call. I'll take you around. Be careful. We're going to show up. Yeah. We will. I'd love to. Anyone who wants to come, we can show them our facilities, our education. Uh, and also the touristic stuff. Egypt is very famous again, you know, for, uh, the pyramids. Uh, and, and we have good, uh, diving spots and, uh, a lot of good food. So. Yeah, you're always welcome to come. Awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks for sitting there. Thank you. Thank you. Pam. REM ream. Dream of paper. Dream team, dream team. So Pam Ream from Canada is joining us at IDW's 2025. Nice to meet a neighbor across the ocean. Friendly neighbor. Yes. Yes. And I've known you for a while. You're a dentist, and you do a lot with Oregon. Yes. Good. I'm a I'm a dental technician, but I primarily work with dentists. So you're not a dentist? I'm not a dentist. I thought you were. I know, it's okay. I love dentures. I did hear you're a celebrity, though. Well, I mean, a little. I do my best. So tell us how you got into. Yeah. Tell us your story, Pam. So you wake up one day and decide to wear denture earrings in Germany. Yeah, she's got denture earrings on. They're pretty sweet. I know they're kind of my trade show trademark. And when I don't wear them, people get upset. Like, where are your denture earrings? Are they both uppers? They are both uppers. I have a lower, but I lost it. Um, yeah. I mean, I kind of fell into the denture world. I kind of fell into dental technology as a whole. Like, I was born with a cleft lip and palate. So I lived in the dental office my whole life. So you had to wear those things that had. What were they all. I had what are they called? That and I had I had braces for eight years. I've had five jaw surgeries. I've had a palate expander, like every ortho thing you can imagine has probably been in my mouth at some point. Well, somebody did a really great job. Incredible. Yeah. You don't even know this. Sincerely, honestly. And growing up, like, my mom's first language is not English. And so the practitioners, they don't tell the children what's happening. So I didn't really fully understand everything that happened. What was your, like French. Because she's Swiss, actually. Wow. She immigrated to Canada. And so I mean, she speaks fluent English, but when it comes to the dental world, there's so many complicated things, no doubt about it. Exactly. So we just kind of went with it. And then I was I graduated high school and I didn't really want to be a dentist because I'm not really comfortable touching people's mouths. Yeah. Good call on that part. Exactly. And so I went on the, the school website, the school that I wanted to go to. And there was this program that said dental technology. I didn't even know that dental technicians were a thing of. And then of course, it clicked. I was like, well, somebody has to make all this stuff to start making this. Yeah. So then I went to school for dental technology, and then you had no idea what it was. So you went to school in Canada? In Canada? Yeah, I went to for two years as a two year program at Nait in Arnhem. Yeah. What did you think of school when you. It was amazing. I, I was like, so blown away, I loved it. I was going to be a porcelain tech. I was going to do crown and bridge artistry. And then when I got out of school, it wasn't really like today. There wasn't as many jobs available right at the time. And so I kind of fell into a removals department job, and I mounted cases and injected cases for a good, solid year. And that's all just that was a long year. All day. Yeah. And then, yeah, eventually I worked my way up. Exactly. Yeah. And it's so hot. You're by the boiler tank all day. Cook and dentures. Yeah, that's ball busting. Yeah, and it's one of those bigger labs where everybody just plays one small part in the whole piece. And then eventually I was running a whole year. And you never saw. You never knew how they set them up. I did like we were all in one room, but my job was just that. And so eventually, in your corner. Exactly. I did learn all the other positions, and I ended up running the department. Oh, wow. For a small amount of time. And when you're running a removals department, a large part of your job is just teaching dentists how to make a denture. So you just. That is so true. I really don't know. Yeah. So you just end up on the phone all day, and then part of that. Um, we started some study clubs locally, so we had some study clubs with Stroman. And then I started lecturing for like, Henry Schein and for I was just small in Canada, in my province. So what got you into lecturing? Yeah. What got you? Yes. I don't know, I just, I really like teaching and I really like educating. And some of my friends who I had taught, like in the lab, they're like, you should just teach other people. And then, you know, I ended up on the dental lab network and made internet friends. And you make internet friends. Exactly. Except. So what do you teach? Like what are your courses? So at the time. Yeah, at the time we were doing a study group. How would it make an impression? Exactly. We were doing, like, full arch impressions. No, no. Full arch, fixed restoration. So bars. And teaching people how to do bars. And when I started doing that, all these dentists started coming to my courses. And I started meeting this amazing, amazing community of Canadian dentists. And they're so different from dental techs. They're just like, every single dentist knows each other. They love each other. Oh, yeah. It's a very small. And they support each other. And it was about the dentist. Yeah, I knew about them because in school we we kind of were at the same time. But even before school, did, you know? No, I had no idea. That's so weird to us because it's so legal in Canada. I thought everybody in Canada, I had no idea. Like I was not in the dental world at all. Aside from being a patient. And I never needed dentures, so I didn't even know I didn't drive. I'm just, you know, I'm from a very, very small northern town. Like 1500 people. Like an entire town at that time. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. It just wasn't in my it wasn't in my field of view. And so I met them, and they were just so welcoming and so amazing. And so then I met this one guy. His name was Kyle. And I left the lab to go work with him. And then in 2019. So he was a denture. He was a denture. So when you say go work, where were you doing setups for him? Yeah. So he needed like some dentists. Um, would like to have an in-house technician so that they could see more patients. And we can do we be doing more of the lab side work? And I really, really wanted to do digital really, really. And because, you know, I worked at a lab, they were fully digital crown a bridge, and I was doing digital, but only for bars. So I had the old strongman system, the really old Nobel system, and we were doing bars and I was like, no. Digital dentures. But this was 2017. Yeah, nobody's doing that, actually. Yeah. And so then, uh, there's a couple dentures who were, um, my really close friend and mentor, Esther. She basically taught me everything. I know, and she was so amazing. And so she really was the reason why I stayed in tourism and kind of pursued it from a technician side. And so then Kyle and I, in 2019, we got a mil, a scanner, a printer, a full three shape software. So you're still with him? Uh, no. And then I left to go work for Arkane eventually. Oh. All right. So did you ever go on to be a dentist? No. I don't like touching people's. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, that's a pretty big. Uh. Oh. We're about to get the music. Oh, no, this is good. Okay. No, it's all fine. It's. It's the strobe light. The strobe light. There you go. There you go. Oh. That's hilarious. We had to stop our interview before, so if it bothers you. Oh, no. No, that's totally fine. But it will. It will, it does just look the other way. All right, so you guys got a. Yeah. So we got everything in and then we had training from all the different resellers. So we bought like something from this and this and this. And uh, they trained us how to design a crown. Mill a crown and print a crown. Very not helpful. Yeah. That's true. They they went into a tourist office and taught you how to do a crown. Well, they didn't really know at the time how to train on these things because none of them have denture experience. And then so we formed a little online group, a bunch of Canadian dentists, and we were up til two in the morning crying every night. Like, I don't know how to make this work. And we really did together figure it out. And so our clinic went 100% analog to 100% digital in a one week period. Do not do that. Do not. Do not recommended zero out of ten. And then when you when you say do not do that. Why? Why? Well you want to kind of tiptoe into it. You really want to tiptoe into it because we would end up with like the three shape would crash because it wasn't really designed to do as much work as we were trying. And then patients had to be moved or our mill, we would just break bur after bur after bur then we couldn't. What were you doing? Dentures. I had a PM seven at the time. Yeah, you had the best of them. Exactly. And so we were really cranking out dentures. It was amazing. And it was so much fun. And then. So many other interests were like, we want you to train us. And so I started training all across North America on digital. So they would go buy their printer, scanner, mill, whatever from all the resellers who weren't really equipped at the time to train them on. How sad is that? I know to buy equipment that have to find someone else to train you. Exactly. And so I started training across North Korea. You went ding ding ding. I love you guys and I'm in charge a lot. I did, and you deserve great. The thing is, I was so busy, I still had a full time job. And then I'm traveling around training. And so it didn't really. And then I realized I love training more than I liked working at the bench every day. Yeah, sure. And so I found Kyle a great technician. She's amazing. And I emailed Arjun and I said, hey, I'm really good at dentures and I like training and educating. You don't really have a presence in the denture world. Like that's crazy. Let's figure it out. Why are there? So I actually when I went to Nate in the those two year program and then you have a summer break in the summer break, they said, uh, try to work with a go, try to work for dental, just try anything. Yeah. Even like a stereotype. Like anything. And Arjun happened to be at Spectrum Edmonton and they had this lecture on like we're going digital. And it was actually the first year that Arjun like they had just purchased this business called Castle Mills in Kelowna. And they were there. And I was like, that's so cool. So I just emailed Richard Nixon and I was like, hey, do you need a summer student? And he was like, sure, come on down. Yeah, we love free labor, I mean. Exactly, exactly. We love good people. So I went down there for the summer, and then ten years later, I still had a good relationship with them. Yeah. And so I said, hey, why don't we do this? Hagen is such good people. Oh, honestly. And they jumped on it and they jumped on it. And so we developed it. Yeah. So we basically my role in Canada is only to sell and educate to dentists. And my entire job is transitioning dentists who want to from fully analog to fully digital. So I sell them the equipment. And then I go in and I train them for two days and then I support them after that. Wow. I was gonna ask, so it's two days. It's a two day training. So typically, like, let's say you get a printer and a scanner and maybe a mill, you'll get all of the standard training that every reseller has. So like your warranty how to how to calibrate all that stuff. And then when they leave you're kind of like, I don't know what to do. Yeah, I go in and I train them from a clinical standpoint. Like what appointments do you need to do? How does it change how you see your patients? Exactly. And like because the way you do a trial is different. Exactly. And then train them on the design and how to print it. And if they want to mill it, how to mill it. And so when you go in and train, do you see patients with them? I can if they want to. That's how I would do it. So I have a what's called in my province, we have a restricted activities license that you can add to your RBT license. And so it gives me the legal ability to take impressions. So scanning is technically taking an impression. Yeah. And so I can be hands on I want to be in there now. But I mean I'm guiding them so I'll guide their hands and they can do the touching. You know it's good. And so yeah, it's honestly it's been amazing. So I've been there now for two years. And then they take you all over the world to speak. And this is really like yeah. So I just I started speaking on behalf of Arjun and uh, I don't know, they've just been so kind and welcoming and wonderful. Oh, they're good people. I mean, it was 2 or 3 years ago, I think, when I met you. So I started it's actually hilarious. I started in October of 2022. Yeah. And on my second day of work. And I'd never been to Chicago. I'd hardly even been to Toronto. Like, I'm basically, my world has been Western Canada. Yeah. And my boss on my second day, Richard Nixon, he came to me and he was like, hey, by the way, we signed you up for two lectures in Chicago, Richard Nixon. Right? Okay. Yeah. He no longer is with he's no longer with Arjun. But at the time and, uh, he's like, hey, I signed you up for two lectures in Chicago. And I was like, in Chicago. I've never even attended the show. Never mind, like speaking to lectures. Oh, he signed you up to lecture? Yeah, for two lectures on the same man I know. And so, you know, it's funny to me because I went to lab de Chicago for probably ten years before I got to speak at Chicago, and it felt so good to finally speak. Exactly. And you were like. Never been. It's like doing it twice at the same time. It like, blew my mind because, like, every technician knows what Chicago is. And I didn't even think that I would get to like the larger Canadian shows. Never mind all the way to Chicago. Big show. And then this year, uh, last year, later in the year, I got an email and it was just like, hi. Your hotel was reserved for IDs, but nobody told me. And I'm like, in my house, like crying. I'm like, I'm going to, I guess. Yeah. And then a couple of months ago, they're like, so are you ready to lecture? I'm like, I can't, I'm lecturing at IDs. They're like, yeah, that's why you're coming down. Why else would I like I don't know. Good behavior. That was a treat though. Oh my eye candy again. That's what I get. Yeah. The earrings. Yeah, yeah. So? So. Yeah. So what are you here talking about? So I'm. You're lecturing here as well? Yeah, I missed that. Are you done or are you still have to talk? I still have one more. Wow. Look at you go. Just talking about denture workflows. Because I think when people talk about digital dentures, they always focus on printing technology. Nobody really talks about the actual workflows to get there. Yeah. What are you doing in the office? Yeah. From a labs perspective, if a lab is going to be driving this, they need to know what the dentist needs at what step. I was that lab so they can help train the dentist. Exactly. And the dentists are going to call you just like they did me all day, every day. And you can be like, hey, we're not using a wax room anymore. We're going to use this instead and explain it to them. But if the lab doesn't know, the dentist doesn't know. I feel like that's where the big gap is right now in the lab, like our lab doesn't. I mean, we're getting a huge chunk of what I do. That's a huge amount of knowledge that you're providing the lab to be able to help the dentist. Exactly. Lab successful and digital. Exactly. And I think the reason why dentures were so successful is because it's such it's in-house, it's tiny, and they do everything themselves. Well, they still finish it. Exactly. It makes sense to them. Doing it on a lab scale is very difficult. But now I think we can learn from the dentures community, and we can take all of the mistakes that we all did, and we can now support the lab side and kind of bring this forward. Yeah. Would you come to Florida? Do you like to trade? Like do you move around? Do you have the US teams or the US marketing team at Oregon? They have invited me to literally every single show that exists in the US. I am a very, very, very busy person again, so I have to be a little bit selective. That's cool. I have been invited to Florida one I couldn't make it the last couple times. Oh, the Florida show. Yeah. I think you're asking her to come to your lab. Oh, I would love to come to your lab. Well, you know what I would do, Pam? Honestly? Yeah. Wait till the winter. Okay? And then go to the factory. That's. That's the really good point. Don't go in August. Florida is the bomb, right? And it's very cold where I am. Yeah, yeah. Enjoy Florida in the winter. Exactly. So do some of the adventures that have some of the equipment. Send argan to get their dentures printed. Yeah. So we print and now we even mill dentures in Canada. And so if you send us a file, we'll print it or we'll mail it for you. And I think it's a really nice entry into it. I don't necessarily think you have to outsource forever, but yeah, focus on the hard stuff, which is the workflows, which is figuring it out, and then outsource the manufacturing until you're ready to bring it in-house. Yeah. To go all in with everything. Like I said, don't trade in a week. In a week, do that. Yeah. No, I'm a big fan of starting small outsourcing, using good partners and then and then bring it in and bring it in. And that's kind of what Arjun is known for. Like we we outsource, but we also sell the equipment and the supplies. And it's such a well-rounded company. And like, I'm so fortunate to be able to offer all of the different ways to support my customers. So yeah, it makes people that want to get in the lab business. Yeah, a little more in control. Yeah, exactly. I mean, $150,000 worth of equipment investment or can I send it somewhere? Exactly. And still be in the game and then start to make money? Because when you shorten your workflows, you can see more patients. So you can build up a little bit of a cash flow. I think digital is a little more efficient. And once you have, you know, a nice little nest egg, then maybe get some equipment or maybe you're happy outsourcing forever. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Either way it goes. How are you handling scanning edentulous arch arches? That's tough. Okay. I don't believe in scanning it. Angela, I'm right with you. High five. I talk to people about this because a big part of my job is getting doctors to send us digital for dentures, I think. And I'm like, just take an impression and scan that. The Intraoral scanning companies have done a very good job at saying if it's digital, that means there's no more impressions. But. And for immediate dentures or for something that you need right now, sure do it. But how do you take an accurate bite? You can't really. And then imagine, like your retro molar pads on the lower. Your mouth is wide open when you're taking a scan, and now you have a hard plastic denture that is formed to a wide open mouth. When is your mouth naturally? It's never naturally. You don't talk with your mouth that way. You don't eat food that way, so it's just not a natural way for your lower jaw to sit. And so if you take an impression and you close your mouth, that's a natural way for your lower jaw to sit. And then you scan the air and then you scan the impact. Don't pour models. No more model pouring. Yeah, that's scan the impression. So I still believe in a nice functional border molded impression. If you can get that and then scan that in. I think it's just a much the right way. Exactly. Yeah, but you can still use your intraoral scanner to scan that. That's okay. You can scan with any scanner realistically, but you're big on the, uh, reference denture. Absolutely. Yeah, that's a great thing. The best work? The best. Yeah. And I, I need a shirt next year for Chicago that says scan every denture. That's a great idea, because every single denture that comes into your lab or your office or scan it, scan it, and anything that you're still making, analog scan it, and then you have that forever. You have a forever because maybe the patient isn't ready. When are they ready? When they have wrapped their denture in a tissue and thrown in the garbage. Or load it together. Or when their dog eats their denture. Now they're ready. And then you go, okay, well, now we have to start at zero. Whereas, oh, don't worry, I have a scan of your denture and we can get you a temporary thing right now. And then we'll get started on your denture right away. So scan every denture. Yeah. What is argon announcing anything big here at the show? Um, so I'm here with the Argon Germany team, and so some of their products are a little bit different than in North America. Okay. Um, but in Canada, we, like I said, we just launched mill dentures out of our manufacturing facility. So that's kind of our big push right now. So do you guys have, like for you moved from California to Canada? So what happened? Um, we've always had Argon Canada, but the manufacturing has been out of the California area for a while. And so then our team started our own manufacturing facility in Canada just to reduce the shipping and have something a little more local. And it's called Argent Canada Digital Center AC, DC. So sometimes you'll see those. Exactly. You'll see those AC DC stickers. That's that's the Argent Canada Center. That's a good idea. Yeah. And like, are they doing everything. They're not. Everything. So yeah like they do some zirconia. They do some, uh, abutments. They do, uh, bite splints. Now they do dentures. They do models. Some of the more complex machinery like SLM or PDS and milling titanium bars. For now, they're staying at a much larger facility. So, yeah. Yeah, it's a lot of work and a lot of people are involved in those things. So yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. What about Argon Germany? I don't even know anything about them. Are they just actually learning a lot about them yet? And they are such an amazing team. And they have been around, uh, for a very, very long time. Almost as long as, like they were, they were built shortly after the argon US kind of figure. And they are one of the most well known for gold and alloys. And now they're getting a lot of zirconia. They do a lot of manufacturing here, too. And then we have some of the UK teams here also, and they are also amazing. The UK team also offers design services and they also have manufacturing. What don't they do. I know and like and every team, every team that I meet is just a wonderful, wonderful group of people. And so it's been such an amazing trip to meet everybody and to meet people from, from some of the other areas. And yeah, honestly, it's been. How many Canadians did they bring to Germany? Just three. So it's just you? Exactly. Just the the managing director and then our product developer and then myself. I'm spoiled. Well, thank you very much. Pam, you're doing some great things. I love the message you're spreading. Yeah, I think it's important. I know you focus on dentists, but if you could come down to a to the USA. Yeah, you kind of help some of our dentists. That would be greatly appreciated. We're working on it. I really think that is the hurdle for us. Building digital dentures. Everyone's like, oh, is your lab doing it? Yes. No. Yes. We don't really do it. It's not us. Yeah, yeah. The manufacturing. And I don't mean to dumb it down. That's the easy part. It is. It's getting the records. It is designing it correctly. The thing is. So with dentures the lab has to lead this. The, the the clinicians aren't going to lead this. They don't care. They don't care especially I think that's the hardest part. I'm motivated by patients because I was the patient. And I really, really think a denture is the most difficult thing a patient could get. Oh yeah, 100% like it literally changes somebody's life. Yeah. And so I think the lab needs to be guiding this process, but the lab doesn't know. And so we're kind of in this in between where everybody's been talking about digital dentures, digital dentures, digital dentures. But nobody's actioning it because we don't know how. Well we're all talking like you are. Yeah, we're talking about the string. We're talking about flexural strength. Really? None of that matters if it doesn't fit. Yeah. And if we don't get everything right. Pam. You're amazing, I love it. Thank you for stopping by. Of course. Stopping back by backing back. Bye. I was a busy woman, man. Keep doing what you're doing. Thanks so much. It's been a pleasure. I really love what you guys do. Honestly, like, your. Your podcast has gotten me through many long days at the bench, so thank you. And now long drives across Canada. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of road. Oh, there sure is. Yeah, well, I'm sure we'll see you. What? Everywhere. I'm sure. Maybe in Florida. Some more shows coming up soon. Yeah. Oh, I'll be at lap day West. Yeah. I don't know if we're going to be there. That's like, in, like, two weeks. I know, yeah. I don't think I can do a turnaround that quick. I need to sleep. Maybe in the next one. Chicago. Awesome. Thanks, Pam. Of course. Thanks. A huge thanks to Amy, Doctor Gammell, and Pam for sitting down with Elvis and I at the exo cad booth at IDW's 2025. Can you believe that was already like two months ago? It's insane how far away it seems. She's gotta take me another year to recover. But anyway, we do love talking to people new into our industry and seeing the endless possibilities where you can go. Amy, you and I got tight. I think you're the bomb. I wish you luck. And Elvis wishes you luck. And we know that in 2027, you're going to be on stage at IDs. Wink, wink. And how cool was it to talk to a dentist from Egypt in Germany. Elvis. Like, how is that even happening? But we didn't even know if you told me I'd be talking to an Egyptian in Germany a year ago, I would have laughed, right? But what a cool concept of providing technology to the dentists that don't have it and making it available to everybody. We really love what you're doing. And of course, the wonderful and amazing Pam, who's making sure that the dentists of the world are leading the clinical and lab side of all things digital. It's not an easy task, but if anybody can do it, you can. Lady thank you Pam. Thank you everybody. That's all we got for you. And we will talk to you next week. Have a good one. We'll see you at FDR or Chicago. See you in Florida. Bye. I want to stroll in there like people think I own the place. Oh. That's funny. The views and opinions expressed on the voices from the bench podcast are those of the guests, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or voices from the bench, LLC.