It's time to start assessing your equipment needs for next year John Wilson: Hello, my friends. John Wilson here and hey, it's that time of year again. It's time to start assessing your equipment needs for next year and make some purchases on behalf of Uncle Sam. While I'm here to tell you that my friends here at Ivaclair have really sharpened their pencils and, are offering some of the best deals of the year on mills and furnaces. As an owner of several of these great pieces of technology, I can tell you firsthan that you won't be disappointed. We're talking about robust and dependable on machines that make you more efficient. We certainly count on them daily here at sunrise. So do yourself a favor, make that call today. You'll be glad you did. Elvis: And of course, we appreciate Ivaclar for their continued support. Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an email@info voicesfrohebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Bell Barbara welcomes Voices from the Bench to episode 349 Greetings and welcome to episode 349, Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis. Barbara: My name is Bell Barbara. Can you hear my bells? Elvis: I do hear your bells. Somebod'in the holiday spirit. Barbara: I'm trying. This is maybe the first year that I've ever even considered decorating this early. And my happy is decorating today and it's Saturday, so yes. And when I decorate, I gotta wear my hat, my bells and everything. Pretty much. I conf find. So. Yeah. How are you? Elvis: I'm doing really good. Had a good Thanksgiving. We're still in our four day weekend, so I've been sleeping a lot. Had to go on my first 27 degree run. It was pretty awful. But that is the time we're in. Barbara: I thought you were gonna say today. How was it today? Elvis: it's actually colder. I'm waiting for it to warm up. Barbara: Well, guess what? It's 52 and I. I know, I know, I know you're jealous. But I love 52 in Florida is s. Unbelievable. Elvis: 50 is a great running weather. Even into the 40s I consider great, but once you get down to that 32 and below gets a little harder. I woke up this morning with 17 degrees. I thought I would wait it out. I think it's supposed to get up to 28. Barbara: Oh, we'll see. Elvis: Okay, good stuff. Barbara: well, we've got six whole days of like 60s during the day and 40s to 50s at night. And normally when we get a cold front and we get it for like one day if we're lucky. So we're gonna have a week. So I'M excited. Elvis: Nice. What are you gonna do? Decorate your palm trees or that? Barbara: O no, I'm just gonna decorate my whole house. Get a tree. I'm working really hard on getting some cheer in my household, as you know. So. Elvis: Yeaheah. Barbara: It important. Elvis: Do you do the live tree or do you do a, fake tree? Barbara: Live all the way. Elvis: Nice. Barbara: $100 stroke that check and, I get to smell it and I love it. So yeah, I always did a live tree growing up and so my boys and I do a live tree now. Elvis: There you go. Barbara: Yep. So how was your Thanksgiving? Elvis: Pretty uneventful. Did the whole one out to eat at the restaurant and came home and I think I took a three hour nap. Barbara: Sweet. Awesome. Speaker D: Yeah. Elvis: How about you? Barbara: U same. Had a good at Thanksgiving? It was lovely. It was lovely. Elvis: What was odd is we actually had somebody join the Golden Bench Club on Thanksgiving. Barbara: The best of the best. Speaker D: Above all the rest. They are the definition of amazing dental technicians. They gave us five stars. that makes them superstars. Welcome to the Golden Bench Club. Elvis: See, isn't that strange? I mean, I thought it was strange until I realized the person's not in America. Barbara: Yeah, exactly. Not everybody celebrates Thanksgiving. Elvis: Sure. And you know, tend to forget that. And I'm like, well, that person's probably just having some random Thursday. But just a reminder, if anyone wants to get into the Golden Bench Club, which is probably the coolest club to be in right now, all you have to do is leave us a five star review on Apple podcast. Now, if you don't use Apple podcasts or you're in another country like this one, then you can just take a screenshot of that review and then just email it to us@infovoicefrohebench uh.com and then we're going to read it on the podcast, just like we're about to do now. Eric Cato is a dental technician in Japan. Welcome to the Golden Bench Club So. Barbara: This entry is from Eric Cato. Hopefully I'm pronouncing that right. He says, I am a dental technician in Japan. I recently found this podcast via social media and have been listening to past episodes when you and I were probably not very good back then, but while my English is not great and I have to look up words, I love hearing about how other technicians around the world handle situations that we all deal with. Please keep up the good work. Thank you, Eric. And welcome to the Golden Bench Club. Speaker D: Welcome to the Golden Bench Club. Barbara: That's a very. Elvis: Thanks. Barbara: Just cl in case you guys. Elvis: No, you're learning English from us. You got a whole other set of Problems. Barbara: You might be getting bleeped a little bit, but that's the F word, in case you were wondering. Darren and Mike Schwartz opened Diamondhead Dental Lab together Elvis: So this week we meet two brothers that took separate but similar paths to open Diamondhead Dental Lab. In high school, Darrenwartz neighbor was a good friend with John Archibald. Now, for those that don't know, John had an apprenticeship program that produced a lot of really good technicians. Now, after just one visit, Darren knew he wanted to get involved. And after going through the program, he eventually opened up Schwz Dennal Lab. Why would you not open a lab? I know your last name. Barbara: I agree. Elvis: I mean, come on. Mine would just be Elvis though. Yeah, Mike Schwartz. His brother saw that what he was doing and decided he also wanted to go through the program. Now you would think Mike would join his brother, but they actually decided to have separate labs but in a commonly shared space. Barbara: Love it. Elvis: Yeah, it was so interesting. Now after the introduction of technology, they actually needed to come together and that's when Diamondead Dental was born. Created on the importance of culture, they wanted to instill the same passion and importance of quality that they shared. Always following their northse star, Darren and Mike wanted to be partners to their dental offices by building relationships and trust. It's such a great story. Barbara: I know. Elvis: So join us as we chat with Darren and Mike Schwartz. Voices from the bench the interview. Barbara: I'm ready. Elvis: That's what we like about her. Darren and Mike Schwartz start Diamond Head Dental Lab We'd like to welcome to the podcast the two gentlemen that started Diamond Head Dental Lab, Darren and Mike Schwartz. No, that's not right. What is it, Goodart? Not bad. I went instantly to, the Schwartzby with you, but I know that's not right. How do you say your last name? Speaker D: We say it, Schwartz. Elvis: Yeah, Swart. Speaker D: Well, you can call us whatever you want. We don't care. Darren Trapp originally wanted to be an orthodontist Elvis: All right, welcome. thank you for joining us. Speaker D: How is everybody doing? Really well. Barbara: All right. Speaker D: Yeah, we're excited to be here and talk about things. Elvis: Yeah, we're so happy to have you. Your lab is pretty well known. I mean, it's a good sized lab. It's got a long history. I know you two have been at it for a while and that's how we like to usually start. So, I don't know. Who wants to go first? Who's older? Let's start there. Speaker D: Well, Mike looks older, but I'm older. Elvis: Okay, great way to put it, Darren. Speaker D: If you could see us, it you'd be confused. Elvis: So, how did you all get into this business? There has to be a history Here. Speaker D: Yeah. This has been so long. It feels like I almost forgot. My neighbor across the street. His very best friend is John Archibald. Barbara: Oh, you're kidding me. Speaker D: So I'm sure you guys know John. Elvis: Oh, yeah, of course. Barbara: Sure. Speaker D: Yeah. So when I was in high school, I originally wanted to be an orthodontist. And I was talking to my neighbor Mike, who's John's buddy. He's like, hey, if you're interested in that industry, I need to introduce you to somebody. And so when I was really young, I went down to John's lab and just walked around and it just kind of hooked me. I was really fascinated with things that he was doing. And yeah, maybe it was John's personality that the Trapp me. Such a funny guy. Elvis: What was his lab like back then? I mean, we're talking, what, eight? Speaker D: We're talking 87. Wow. 80. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker D: And it was when I was a senior in high school, way back. Barbara: So that's when I graduated, by the way. Speaker D: Oh, is it? Barbara: Yep, for sure. Speaker D: We're young, right? Barbara: Yes. Speaker D: But he was in, you know, he's in house with Gordon Christensen, and his lab was probably hold maybe 10 people at that time, and he had his little, you know, his apprenticeship and training program. Elvis: I was wondering if he was doing it back then. Yeah. Barbara: Wow, that's crazy. Speaker D: Yeah, I believe that was more of, like, the height of when he was doing it. Sure. Yeah. He had a long, long waiting list, I think a few years for people to come to his and, you know, be a part of his program. So I was able just to meet him and a few years later ended up there and had that opportunity to be right there side by side with John for over a year. Why did both of you want to get into dentistry Elvis: So you did his apprenticeship then? Speaker D: I did, yeah. Barbara: So what was that? So you were what, just out of high school or two years out of high school. And what. What was that like? What did he have going on that you learned? Speaker D: Well, it was. It was pretty intense. I mean, we would. The structures program was very. Just right there next to him. He had call us over, show us. But, you know, for instance, there was really no book work. We weren't learning words or expressions within the industry. That came as we worked and we absorbed that as we kind of went along. But I think the first three months was just waxing. He was very, you know, John's very terrific technician. So I think the first three months we just waxed and waxed and waxed because we couldn't move forward until we passed off a full mouth of teeth. In perfect, you know, perfect morphology, function, inclusion. So we had to do an upper, lower, full arch to his satisfaction before we can move on in the industry back then, everything was analog. Yeah, Way different than what we're doing these days. Elvis: Yeah, I bet. Speaker D: And you know, you guys already know that. So we would just go step by step from waxing. We went into copings and casting and opaing and layering porcelain. And he was very, you know, I want you to be an in house lab and very high end and boutique. And so he taught. I mean, his program was really great. It really prepared us. So I started the lab about a year after I began with John and went in house with the doctor up in Laightton, Utah. And the Mike followed me. Speaker E: About four years later I went through same program. Ironically enough, I and Aaron had the same career goals and didn't know it. So I wanted to go into dentistry. He was, he wanted to go into orthodontisty, which is super weird. We're brothers. Elvis: Why did both of you want to get into dentistry? Speaker E: Yeah, that was. Speaker D: I don't know what I was thinking back then. Speaker E: Yeah. Elvis: No family member was in it or anything? Speaker E: No, no. Elvis: M interesting. Speaker E: You know, I don't, I don't know where my. I don't even remember where my interest for dentistry came. I don't know. I mean, I went through all the pain of orthodontisty, so you'd think that that's the last thing I'd want to do as a kid, but. But, you know, that was the similar career goal. And shortly after high school just seemed really natural and easy for me because, you know, Darren had just went through the school, had a good experience and I'm like, okay, well, I don't know that I want to go through all this school and dental school, get me in John's program. And so there you go. You know, we met four years later. I went through and his program looked exactly the same. Mike Archibald was his son at the time, was kind of going through the program and helping the new students with waxing. And so that was kind of his beginning too. So I was there kind of at the same time. Mike, I think it was 19 at the time, was going through and nuts. yeah, that was really the foundation for me and Darren. But you know, the one thing John said is, I'm teaching you to become a small boutique lab. Don't even try to become a bigger lab unless you figure out how to do business. So that resonated with me. And you Know, some days I think I should have listened to John. Were you a very good waxer when you started Barbara: So did you both just instantly love it? Like the whole creative part of it, because obviously you're businessmen now, but the technical part of it, you just kind of. Were you a very good waxer when you started? Did it take you a while to kind of get it? Speaker E: I think I knew personally. I can speak for me. This is Mike. Yeah. I think that the art of it drew me in for sure. And the fact that I had a head start and I cheated before. I went to John's and worked with Darren for three or four months and started waxing. Didn't tell John. So when I walked in, he was super impressed. You know, it became pretty evident through using him as a mentor that there was a talent there. And yeah, there was absolutely a passion for it. Nobody would ever be in this industry for 30 years unless they have some sort of passion or they're completely clue desperate. Barbara: I agree. Elvis: They hate themselves. Speaker E: Exactly. Speaker D: Y. I think this is the same for m me. I think I immediately caught on, but clearly loved it. I pretty much geeked out on all of it from the start. And it's really interesting now because we got to such a high level with our skill set. And, you know, when you become good, you also become fast. Barbara: Oh, yeah. Speaker D: The hardest thing for me was letting go of that. So right now it's almost like I have to do a crown for my soul once in a while because I'm out of production because it so much was put into the art of it all. And you know, back then we're layering and doing all everything by hand and all those 15 powder bakes and just kind of crazy stuff that people, the younger generation, really look at us with a strange look. And like, you know, you're doing what. Barbara: y and you're not on the computer and you're not designing something. And I like the fact that you said for your soul because that totally resonates with me. If you really love it, like, you really get that. Speaker D: Yeah. It's hard to think back what we all used to do and how did we even have time to do it and never make any money. It's a weird thought. Barbara: Well, we pretty much live there. Speaker D: It feel so inefficient. Yeah. Elvis: So what do you do after the program? Speaker D: Well, I immediately went in house and started. Started the lab. And I don't know how I paid. I literally was down at John's every week because making that jump and all of a sudden receiving all these cases. I don't know how many all nighters I did back to back for the first few months, you know, because so many mistakes were being made. But I do know this. I was going in the hole because I was paying those guys down there to finish cases for me. I go down and talk to Craig or John or his brother Rich, and I'm like, guys, this is duee. I've done it eight times. I need someone to finish this. And then they would charge me. So, I was going in the hole for like four months. Elvis: So you opened up a lab in a doctor's office? Speaker D: I did, yeah. Elvis: And how did you meet this dentis? How did. In the bas. Of course. It's always in the baseent. Speaker E: Yeah. Elvis: how did you make this connection? Speaker D: John was really great at taking care of his students and introducing you to people. So he had been talking. his name was Dr. Glenn McMillan. I know him and his son do. I think they're down at Roseamond University in Utah still. Barbara: I feel like I know that name, honestly. Speaker D: Yeah, really great people. And he just kind of gave me a shot and gave me a chance. So he was building a new building, and so he built me a really nice big lab and it could hold 15 people. And it was just me. Elvis: Oh, whoa. Speaker D: Yeah. Elvis: And that's not a building and that's a complex. Speaker D: Well, back then it felt really big. But I was in that room about a month ago. I'm like, holy crap, this is small. How did I do that? So, yeah, he just gave me a shot. And, you know, I just all grit. Really? You guys know? Barbara: Yeah. Speaker D: Right. Elvis: I mean, did you own the business or did he supply it? And you were an employee? Speaker D: No, I purchased every. All new equipment. Lally started from scratch. Barbara: You're looking at your brother going, all right, grow up. Hurry up, I need you. Speaker E: I was exactly. What happened? Elvis: You done yet? Speaker E: Yeah, I came off of a two year mission and he's like, okay, first weekend back, I need you waxing. Mike and John became partners in a boutique lab after returning from overseas I mean, I know you. I know you're going to John's. Let's get this going right now. Barbara: Ye. Speaker D: Here's a funny story. So Mike starts with me, and this is probably three months after he got back. He got married very quickly when he got home. And immediately I'm like, mike, we gott these cases are due. We got to be here over the weekend. And he looked at me with the weirdest look. And his wife got mad. Mike doesn't work on the weekends. Barbara: Yep. Speaker E: That was the last weekend at home for the rest of my life. Speaker D: So yeah, he got thrown into the fire. And it was funny from my perspective, not his, but. Elvis: So what was the name of that lab? Was that Diamond Head? Speaker D: It was Sports Denal Arts. So we combined and we had a unique situation where we shared accounts but we also were separate. So Mike hadddy's own accounts. As time went on, I had my own accounts. But you know, we helped each other. Shared all the interesting equipment expenses. we were independent at the end for sure. Elvis: What made you decide to do that? That's an interesting kind of we don't want to be together. Speaker E: The easy answer was we were brothers and we wanted to stay with a good relationship. That's a funny thing. We're obviously partners now. But we had to figure it out as, as brothers and family and we had to figure out, you know, how to work together. And so you know, in hindsight it couldn't have been a more perfect path because we helped each other and we had the benefit of being essentially a two man lab. Even though we were filing as sole proprietors and so we could actually leave town and have someone to take care of it. Barbara: Yah. Speaker E: As a very, very small, high end boutique lab. yeah. it worked out pretty well. Kind of the beginning phases of a future really big partnership. So. Speaker D: Yeah. M. M. started his lab in 91 and in about 2009 Barbara: So how long guys do that for independently before you guys realize that you would be better together? Speaker E: About 15 years too long. Barbara: Wow. Really? Elvis: 15 years. Speaker D: So I started my lab in 91 and in about 2009. And what dictated that was technology. It was a consolidation happening around this. And all of a sudden I opened my eyes and found myself in this little bubble and it was a doctor that kind of really opened my eyes. Like I said, we were really high end lab and I looked around my lab and thought, where's all of his poster your work? What is going on? It dawned on me one day and I talked to him and he immediately said, oh, we have to talk. And he bought an Iero and not well, sa can. Speaker E: Yeah. Speaker D: And Itero. And we didn't have those workflows at the time. And he started sending Stu to Glidewell. And that name was the devil to me. Barbara: Yeah. Speaker D: Back then. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker D: Like I couldn't even wrap my head around that account. Sending any type of crown or restoration to glidew. Well, and it was purely a business decision. And that's what kind of started this journey because I'm like, whoa, everything's changing. And I've been, I've had my eyes closed. That's when this whole Journey started and we started to transform our lab and change our model and thousands hours of continuing education. I feel like flying around the country and world learning all on for. And we were a fixed lab. That's it. high end fix. So we had to learn removable. You know, now we're full service and have. Yeah, yeah. Barbara: So both of you had to dig in and learn other stuff. So what'd you do? Just check courses off and go, like you said, all over the United States to learn all this stuff? Speaker D: Yep. Back then, you know, you didn't have all this availability of the Internet and all these resources, so you had to go in person. Wow. Yeah. So that's what we did. And that's the pivotal moment that changed everything. Disruption of technology. Barbara: Yeah. The doctor sending work to Glidewell, and all of a sudden you were like, holy, we got to come to the party here. Speaker D: Yeah. Speaker E: yeah. We saw things consolidating too, in the industry. And, you know, we saw labs struggling, we saw the effects of Ceric. We decided to embrace that rather than to be upset at Sarona and Saric and said, you know what, there's an opportunity here. It's going that way. We better figure out how we fit into the opportunity rather than fight against it. So. Barbara: Nice. Speaker E: thank goodness we embraced the technology. We fought it for a minute, though, like all the technicians back then did, and hope that, that it wasn't going to click. But thank, goodness it did. Speaker D: Yeah. So we had a little bit different approach. We would, you know, rather than try and make our doctors feel bad about introducing CERIC to their practice, we really actually encouraged it and wanted to help them. So for me, I needed to be the expert and have more knowledge than the doctor so I could be a value add and a resource to them to help them and show them the tips and tricks of the technology. Barbara: M. Speaker D: And what's really interesting is initially, the amount of work our lab would receive would go way down. We'd look at the analytics four months later, and they're actually sending more work than they had previous to them gaining that technology in their office. Barbara: And why do you think that is? Speaker D: Because they learn how to do more dentistry and they figured out what they didn't and didn't want to do. And because, you know, they're so appreciative of our relationship and how we approach things, everything came to us. Barbara: Didn't want to glaze. Speaker E: We wanted to help them really utilize their ROI on their CEC or whatever technology they had and said work at the top of your practice or the top of your license, if you will, and figure out, you know, where can you be the most efficient as a clinician and with your staff and let us take the things that you don't want to be a lab tech you don't want to be until midnight. And so, you know, help us take you down the journey of, ah, what we think would make you most efficient and what we could help you the most with. And rather than push against it. And so it served as well. Speaker D: Yeah. Speaker E: And they definitely did more dentistry because of it. And I think it allowed them to focus more on the restorative end because they made this investment. Barbara: Yeah. Speaker E: And so I think the mindset shifts on some of those clinicians and, you know, which is exactly what a lab wants. Right. We want doing more restorative work. Barbara: Yep, true. Inl lab was your first technology when you started Diamond Head Elvis: So what did you do, get into inl lab? Is that your first. Speaker E: First? well, when we started Diamond Head, that was our first technology. It was the in lab mill. The, in lab serna. So, yeah, that was kind of shape three shape. It was kind of the first thing that we had dove into back when we started Diamond Head. Diamond Head is a play on beauty and longevity of diamonds Elvis: Let's find out why Diamond Head. What's the name behind that? Barbara: Good question. I was curious. Speaker D: Mike's a professional surfer and hangs out in Hawaii a lot. Speaker E: We, I mean, we're lying. We're trying to come up with a cool story for the name. To be honest, it just kind of. We threw out a hundred names and made sure they are available. But, you know, it's just a play on beauty and longevity. And that's kind of no link to Diamondhead, Hawaii. That was the. That's the number one question we're asked. Yeah, it was more of just a play on, like I said, the strength and longevity of diamonds and the beauty. Elvis: I, was thinking of a burr in the diamond head of a bur. Barbara: I of the most precious stone. Personally, I like it. It's cool. Speaker D: Yeah. You disbanded your individual businesses and then created Diamond Head Elvis: What are some of the names you didn't use? I'm just kidding. Speaker E: Pretty dumb ones, I'm sure. Elvis: I'm sure you came together, you disbanded your individual businesses and then created Diamond Head. Did you stay in that in office at the time or did you go out in your own building? Speaker E: Well, we were in our second location at this time, so. Wow. We were in the building with a couple other dentists, but we had our own suite in the building at this time. At that time, we decided to. We dove straight in. We basically threw all of our accounts into Diamondhead. And just under a new organization, new lab slips and started really small. I mean it was a grind as you can imagine. Barbara: Oh yeah. Speaker E: And you know, I think it's important to say part of the lessons behind that. You know, there's a lot of things happening outside of Diamond Head. We're running other companies that we'd started, you know, the labs our day job. But we'd started, you know, a lighting company and other other little ventures that we got involved in and you know, spent a couple Harvard MBA and money and business lessons up to this point. Yeah, ah, having never gotten the NBA. But so that was kind of the precursor to hey, you know what the vision started getting bigger and started realizing hey, you know, we can do this, we have to do this. We don't have a choice. It'consolidating and we also. I think it's worth mentioning we started an apprenticeship similar to John's before this. And so we had many students run through about a year program. So we kind of patterned our school after John's school. And that was kind of our first introduction to the closest thing to having employees at the time. Barbara: w. You got backtrack a little bit. So whose idea was that and how did that go? Speaker D: It went really well. I mean there was this industry still I think'a little bit of a hidden industry. People out there aren't really aware of things that we do. So there's a lot of fascination when we meet people and people we know like well, how do I get into this? And you know, we originally referred to everyone down to John. But he was, he was always booked and they couldn't get in. So it was just like, you know, we did reach a really high level so said well, why don't we just start it? But I'll tell you what, we didn't last how long we do it maybe five years. Speaker E: Yeah. Speaker D: Because all we did was train our competition. No one, no one abide by the non brilliant. The these technicians around here. People we trained. Barbara: Oh, my. Speaker D: So we breeded our competition. We, we thought well, we probably ought to stop doing that. Elvis: So at this point did you have employees? Speaker E: You know, oftentimes those technicians would be model people. You know, at the time, metal people. They would become an employee as they were starting their own lab. And we had so many students that filtered through there that we always had available people to do work for us during that whole time. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: So kind of free labor. Speaker D: No, they were paid. Speaker E: No, we paid them. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker D: After their schooling, a lot of them wanted to stay with us and stayed with us for, you know, a period of time. A few years. Some of them wanted to go out and start their own and. But they all eventually went out and started their own. Most of them, yeah. But it was a great experience. I mean it was really fun. Training. I have a passion for training. Barbara: Yeah. I was goingn to say you got a passion for training and teaching obviously, because that's a lot of work on top of your job. Speaker E: it inevitably made us better technicians and better owners. That's part of the byproduct of training. How many labs did your students open in Utah between you and Archibald Elvis: And then how many labs did your students open in Utah? There must be a ton of labs in Utah between you and Archibald. Speaker D: Thing is s painful for me to count that. So not to. Speaker E: You know, obviously small labs are not as prevalent as they used to be, but. Elvis: Mm Speaker E: I think there's still three or four that are still successful boutique labs. Right now that nice. Are still, you know, they've gotten a little bit of technology and they're just two, three men labs. Barbara: Wow. Speaker E: But you know, some of them are non compete with. Supposed to be out of state. But if, you know, me and Darren, we just. Sometimes our heart'bigger than our braine. We've made so many exceptions until we, you know, until once in a while we'd bump into an account and we're like, okay, now, you know, we've got a. Barbara: Now I'm pissed. Speaker E: Exactly. Barbara: I was letting it go, but now I'm pissed. Speaker E: Right, right. Elvis: You're using who? What do you think taught that guy? Speaker E: Exactly. Speaker D: Yeah, it came up quite a bit. It came up you. There was probably, you know, maybe time six or seven within 30 miles of us. Elvis: Wow. Speaker D: It open labs. Yeah. Elvis: Yeah. Barbara: That had happened with Archibald too though. Right. I mean he had to have been in the same situation where he was training his competition. Elvis: Yeah, well, didn't he train you? Speaker E: Yeah, exactly. Elvis: You become a competition. Speaker D: Well, I think John was in a different. I mean he is so well known and sure, a lot of his. There'so much production going on out of the offices down there and he knew people all around the country. So I don't think the prices John was charging it is really not conducive to the market in Utah. So he didn't really have a lot of in state accounts. All of John's accounts are really high end. Andah, you know, out of state and Gordon Christians for the Christiansn'yeah. Barbara: Yeah. Good people right there. honestly. Speaker D: Yeah. Barbara: All right, sorry. So we took a little track off. Elvis: No, yeah, back to Diamond Head. You've got your in lab, you start hiring people. Speaker D: We did. We just capitalized and got loans and just really went for, started marketing. And we were growing. I mean, we've still been growing very few years. Have we not grown. We've tried to control it though, because we understand it's really important to grow at the right rate, you know, speed. But yeah, we just started ad employees, brought a couple of strategic partners on for a couple years, bought them back out. They were really great because they were that bought and sold multi million dollar companies, you know, over and over. So, you know, it was just an education on business and how to deal with employees and navigate that whole world that we'd never been a part of because it was just us. And you know, that's easy. Looking back on now, what's difficult is, is understanding how to run a company and how to, how to manage employees. And you know, culture is our biggest thing in our company. Barbara: Yeah, we actually heard you guys, we heard you guys talking about culture when we couldn't hear each other. Just before we started this podcast, we were actually talking about that. So yeah, let us in on that because culture is big with us too. Diamond Head has a culture of its own. And so it's really setting the vision for employees Speaker D: Well, Mike, we're sitting in a podcast studio right now and it's Mike's son in laws. his name's Jason Haugen and he runs a podcast called Culture Camp. You guys should really look it up. It's really terrific. Elvis: And you guys are in a professional podcast booth right now? Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, week. Elvis: Wow. Fancier than we are. Speaker D: But I'll let Mike explain a little bit about that. And you know, our culture of our lab. Speaker E: Yeah, so I think we knew we were understanding the concept of culture in a lab and the importance of it. But Jason, my son in law, he, obviously I had listened to a lot of these podcasts and listened to all kinds of different personalities in business. I mean, he's got some really big, big names that's been through his podcast in business, throughout, you know, the country and really worldwide names and some of these guys, you know, so I mean, we have a close relationship. His family's, at my house literally, I don't know, four or five times, a week. Jason, he's sitting here, he's running the podcast stuff, but, he's running the board. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he had some really good insight. He also became an expert in dis personalities and. Barbara: Oh, I love that. Speaker E: And he lectured and he, gave many speeches throughout the nation on that. And so obviously naturally I had a resource there and an asset. So we said we need this, we know this is important to us, but we now we can kind of pull it together for Diamond Head and brought him to come and coach some managers. And so we had meetings in there and really tried to introduce the managers to buy in, to have the buy in on the culture and what company culture really means. Cause that's such a diverse subject. that means so many things. And it's easy to talk about good culture, but to have good culture is a whole nother story. And I think it's a journey. It's never a destination in a company. I don't think we're ever go going toa achieve the exact culture we want. But I think as long as you're working on it and you're, you're at least continuing to improve, I think that's where you're going to see the ROI from a company. And you're going to see it literally all the way down to your bottom line. And that's what we've discovered in our company. And so it's really setting the vision for. It's not just about Diamond Head'visions like if our employees visions don't fit in with Diamond Heads, it doesn't work. so we have to really bring it together and make sure that, you know, our vision's largely based on our employees like not having glass ceilings. We want employees to be confident, but we don't want them always comfortable. We want them, you know, we want to find their skill set. If they fail, we fail. We fell as leaders if they faill and so sometimes we repurpose them into their strengths. But we also want them to know we don't want you comfortable because people aren't happy when they're not growing. So you need to be uncomfortable to grow. And so people often ask, where's your endle with Diamond Head? How big do you want to be? And I said, really depends on the journey of the employees because that's the reason we grow. We grow to give them opportunities. And we grow with a technology that kind of demands the growth. And so it kind of organically happens. You know, it has to happen alogether following that North Star. You take your managers through this culture. Explain it to me a little bit Barbara: So what, so you take your managers through this culture. Is it like a culture of accountability or like what? Explain it to me a little bit. Because it's got to be the managers and then down so they learn what? Speaker D: Yeah, the managers really have to buy into our culture. So you know, cultures for Me is more important than skill because we can train skill, but you can't train personality or, or energy or. People are really buying into what you're doing. So Jason's taught us a lot that we've passed down and he's been there doing workshops with us. So it is a culture of accountability and having people really buying into what our vision is and like Mike said, aligning their vision with ours. Our lab is based on value adds. So we're not a huge, um, lab Elvis: Well, how many people are in your lab now? How big is this culture? Speaker D: Oh, we're approaching almost 40, mid-30s. So we're not a huge, lab. Yeah, big enough. I feel like a counselor, though. Barbara: Oh, yeah. yeah, you can't be a leader without being a counselor. Speaker D: Yeah. So. But as you guys all know, you know, it's a. Sometimes, you take two steps back to take a step forward and that's the game we play, you know, as, as we try and grow. But, you know, it's all about people are trying to really surround ourselves with the best people and build an ecosystem of value adds for our doctors. So our lab is based on value adds. And if you picture us in the middle with this ecosystem connected to us, we want to be a first resource for our doctors, in every way that you can imagine. If they need staffing, they call Mike or Darren and we have those connections to help them or financing for their patients. So we're not a lab that just drops a commodity off. we want to be a partner to our doctors, an extension of their staff. And so that means we have to know everything they know. and that brings us to, you know, the big value adds like the Diamond Head Institute, our PACE accredited education center, and all these things that we do. So all that kind of builds into culture of our lab. And we really have to train our employees on what we're all about and try and get them outside the walls to see the impact they're having with patients, taking them to chairside visits and helping them really understand what they're doing for people. Diamond Head helps doctors with technology and helps them increase revenue Barbara: Wow. Elvis: You just touched upon a few things that seem very interesting to me. So you help patients finance? Speaker D: Well, we don't personally have our own finance company, but we have the connection. So what I wanna do is have partnerships and layered over Diamondh Head so we can be a resource to our doctors regardless of the problem. So our goal and our mission statement in Diamond Head is to increase the revenue of the practices that we work with or be a part of that. And how does the lab do that when we're the biggest bill? Barbara: Yeah, right. That's true? Yes. Speaker D: We have pulled it off because we have the partnerships and the layers over Diamondh Head to help our offices and know a lot of them don't take advantage of it because they're doing great, but a lot of them do take advantage of it. We have technology experts out there for free helping them with their combeam machines or helping them introduce the technology that we want them to have in their office. Because we're all about technology now. I feel like we're on the bleeding edge and very quick to adopt the new technology and introduce it. We just launched our photogrammetry workflows six months ago. We provide everything. ICAM scanners, we have a scanner program. We, we give scanners away, but we just want to help them grow and be successful in their practices. So whether it's consultants or partnerships like people like, with Crown Coun Council or resource partner with them, those type of relationships are really what we want to have available for our doctors and especially the young ones that are just starting. Darren Nobel: Lab is trying to become a better partner with doctors Speaker E: Yeah, here's maybe a good example because you had a great question. How are you the first resource Darren's touched on the ecosystem? And it's not just about bringing in partnerships, it's about discovering. You know, we stay up late at night thinking, how can we be, you know, like most labs, how can we be a better partner? But we truly want. The word partnership is a really unique word in this industry because, you know, oftentimes labs are, you know, sought as the enemy more than the partner. And we try not to have that in our lab. We're very grateful for the paychecks that come from those clinicians and try to have that, you know, hey, let's not have a negative attitude towards office staff and office managers. And, you know, clinicians make mistakes. We get it. But at the end of the day, you know, let's be grateful for the industry, be grateful for them, you know, giving us what we have. And also let's, let's try to help them be better clinicians. We don't point fingers. We don't say, hey, you know, this was your fault, we're going to charge you a remake. We literally say, it's your job to fix their problem. And I don't care if it's their fault, don't. Maybe we need to help them with a technique, you know, on impression taking. Or maybe we need to figure out why the scan was wrong and go in there and help them scan. Whatever it takes, we're there to make them successful. And so It's a mindset change. And you know, even to the point where we're partnered and on boards and have equity in software companies, all in the effort to go to a doctor and say hey, we have a software now that we're partnered with to help you with case acceptance or to help you with education from doctors or you know, here you can have a technology to give you a welcome video to send out to your patients in a text or you know, there's all these different things, the different companies we're trying to seek out, to be involved with all in the effort to make the doctors more profitable and to make them more successful. Even to the point of a DSO. We work with DSOs too. And so we have to think, well what do we need to do from a business aspect, you know, giving doctors a crown'a commodity. Anyone can give a doctor a zirconia a crown. That's really in my mind that's not the value. Barbara: Right. Speaker E: Value is how do you have a true partner in this industry you can lean on to make you better and they make us better too. It's not a one way street. Elvis: But how do you scale that and not charge for it without increasing your fees? Or do you? Speaker D: Maybe we aren't good business guys. I don't know. Elvis: It just seems like to have that resource to be able to go out there and help chairside, that takes a lot of person power and hours to commit to that. Speaker E: It's strategic. It depends on the opportunity. Oftentimes, you know, the one to many thing depends on whether it's dental groups. Depends on a lot of the time the need. We're presented with a need and we're just trying to stand behind our mission statement and stand behind, you know, being that partner. But I feel like it comes back in referrals. It comes back y. Yeah, I think we see it in our financials for sure. Elvis: Yeah, sure. Speaker D: Yeah. And we do charters, we don't go chair site for free. We have resources that we don't charge the doctor for. But that's part of their job titles and job descriptions and things that it's hard to track the ROI on that sometimes but we know it's there because we found success. You know, if that makes sense. Barbara: I swear it's building relationships and when you build that relations about that and they trust you like you'renna grow and you're going to get referrals and they're go going toa say these guys are amazing and these are all the things that they do. And I think it's. It's just a ripple effect, personally. Speaker D: Yeah. And we, you know, we count on that. You know, in our education center, we don't. We want to provide top notch, really great education. That's not, you know, when we partner with Nobel or whoever it is. You know, every C course usually has a partner, unless we're doing it ourselves or with an individual surgeon. But we try and, you know, we're very strategic and let them know this is not a sales paitch because those doctors need to go home with those nuggets and those really important things that they can actually utilize in their practice. Yeah. So. And we don't charge a lot. We want to offer that education so they don't have to travel. And that's how we build our relationship. Barbara: That's mostly doctor education. So you're bringing in docs to your building and giving them education, or is it technical? Speaker D: Hundred percent. Barbara: Wow. Speaker D: 100% doctors. Speaker E: yeah, we'll do staffing for, you know, some of the assistants and staff will come to certain CE events we've had. You know, and it's business for doctors. It's not just clinical, ce. We'll bring in business ce. We'll bring in, you know, a variety bute. Like Darren said, at the end of the day, we want them to feel like they had a value they just didn't check off the box of continue education credits. We want them to actually come to the next event and tell the other doctors, like, hey, this has really helped my practice. You know, it's. You know, you get fed with a fire hose if you can take one little thing and implement it. Barbara: Yep. How often do you do CE events? Once a month or every other month Speaker E: Then you're way ahead of the game. Because how often do these guys actually implement CE things into the practice? I don't. You know, from my experience, it's not real often unless it's extremely meaningful and something that they can actually go the next week and implement. Elvis: It's usually writing off a vacation, isn't it? I mean, isn't that how most of that is? Speaker D: We do our events live and zoom at the same time. Barbara: Oh, cool. Speaker D: It's a unique structure, so that allows our accounts from all over the country to join and get those CE credits and be a part of the event if they can't travel. So it's worked out really well. Our education director, his name's Landon, he does a really great job of pulling those events off seamlessly. So, yeah, it. It's been really good. It's a lot of work, but very, very well worth it. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: How often do you do these events? Once a month. Speaker D: We went back and forth. We found that once a month is a little bit too often. Barbara: Yeah, I would think so. Every three. Elvis: Yeah. Speaker D: So every two months. We're probably doing them about every other month. You know, everyone wants to do it. So sometimes you try and squeeze them in and we're like, man, you know, sometimes you have a conflict ofinterest. You can't market a, Nobel event on top of a Stramaman event at the same time. Yeah, yeaheah. So you got to space them out and. But you know, we vet them. We try and have really, really great events. And I think that we do. Yeah, we've had a lot of good, good feedback. How do you guys stay ahead of the curve at Diamond Head Barbara: I'm curious, so you two as partners slash brothers, how do you guys stay ahead of the curve? Do you guys meet like, and just do like a think tank with yourself or others every six months or year? Or do you have like a two year goal, three year goal? How do you stay so above the curve? Because it really sounds like you guys have a great relationship, but also are moving your company in a forward direction just so quickly. Speaker E: It's a grind. Barbara: Yeah. Speaker E: Know it, it is. But you know, you mentioned, how do you meet? Do you have. I'll tell you a story. One of the most impactful things we did in growing Diamond Head is we had a retreat. So at the time there was three. I mean, we've had ownership up to five. We're back down to me and Darren. We bought them all out. But we had at the time were. Elvis: Five owners at one time there were. Speaker E: Five with, I mean, it was more board member, a couple board members and three, at the time. But at the time, we had three owners at the time, a couple board members at the time that were offs site. we had a retreat and so we went and rented a cabin up in Wolf Creek, Utah. And we spent two days, we locked ourselves in a room and with the exception of a couple milals, and literally hammered out a new North Star. Had sticky notes from ceiling to floor, literally on three walls in the room. And we threw out every single idea that three of us could muster up, you know, what, 12 hour spurts without a break, and then just started organizing them into priorities. And, you know, that became kind of the first visionary meeting. And so we've had a couple of similar things like that since. But it was just a retreat to really set our focus and come up with that common North Star and make sure that, you know, we don't always agree, but when we have an idea, we rally around it and we agree that majority wins and we rally around that idea and we put all of our energy into it and then try to find, you know, the whole SWOT analysis and find out where our risks are. Find out. You know, the biggest thing in momentum is really, it's really finding out how to best utilize your energy and momentum. And it's really tempting as a company. That's why these retreats were so important because you get so many opportunities as you grow and the name grows. But you know, the mistakes of the past is you felt like a need that you're always growing a company to get opportunities. So when they start coming, you feel like you have to take them all. That was a mistake. Barbara: Yeah. Speaker D: Got. Speaker E: They became, oftentimes they became nothing but rabbit holes rather than opportunities that lost our focus on that North Star. And so nowadays we've gotten a little better at if this doesn't fit into our vision, it's not for us and we can say no noweah. And that's okay. Barbara: I love that. Elvis: Wow. Speaker D: yeah. I think that first retreat we were there 48 hours and we only slept four hours. Barbara: Yeah. Speaker D: but it was amazing. I'll tell you what, where's more accomplished than those? It would have taken us eight months if we wouldn't have done that to get to where we were. So we've learned, you know, how to be efficient with things like that. Barbara: Well, that's why I asked the question because it always seems like really good leadership. They've got a long term goal, short term goal, but it takes time away from the business itself to go and lock yourself in that type of room and talk about all of those things and then organize them and then, you know. So I'm assuming you guys do that every year, Maybe every two years. Speaker D: Yeah, we try and do it once a year. Barbara: Yeah. Speaker D: And we really map out the entire year in that meeting. Barbara: Yeah. Speaker D: literally down to, you know, every detail. Barbara: Yeah. Speaker D: But I'll tell you what, when you talk about how do we stay on the bleeding edge or the cutting edge is surrounding yourself with the right people. We're not the smartest people in the room. We have to. And it's the younger generation that's really helped us with technology Land and sitting here, our COO and he's been super impactful in Diamond Head and I don't know really what direction we be, but we need those young bright minds to help us really understand where things are going within Just the world, not just the industry. Because I'm not of the generation where softwares are intuitive to me. Barbara: Right. Speaker D: And I do understand the power of technology now, but for a long time I didn't. So having someone help us really navigate that. And a lot of these ideas are not ours. They're from the great people that we have. A diamond head. Barbara: Nice. Speaker D: Yeah. Elvis: But can land in hand wax every tooth? That's the question. Speaker D: No, not even one. Speaker E: He knows what a tooth is. Speaker D: That's the exact perspective we need because we get stuck in our own echo chambers. Sure. Yeah, I need that perspective. So one thing about us is we really have great people. We're really proud of the people that work and we value our employees at a really high level. And I hope they feel that and trust us and trust our vision, because they need to trust what we're doing, so they buy in. But for me, it's all about people. What I've learned and'probably spans all companies is all about the people. You have to have really good people. Speaker E: And when you become our age, know priorities do change, life changes you. And to have an opportunity to improve the lives of people, you know, I don't want to sound disingenuine on that. We have to make a profit and we have to grow and we have to achieve our goals. But my hope is that, along the journey, we can improve the lives of the people at Diamondhead. So that gives much more of a why and a purpose, which I think inevitably, if you don't have that, it's hard to be successful. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: But that's also going to, in turn do those first two things and help you gain that profit. Because the people are going toa be so better well received at helping you accomplish that. Speaker D: Yep. It starts with taking care of them first. Elvis: Yeah. But you mentioned earlier photogrammetry, you're just now getting into that. Are you doing the full ar? You go into offices with the photogrammetry and doing it all You go into offices with the photogrammetry with the introural scanners and doing it all. Speaker D: You know, our goal is, again, I think it's really important for doctors that have people to lean on that side. Those procedures intimidate a lot of. Lot of clinic clinicians or they have been taught they're not profitable and there's a lot of problems. And in the analog world, that's true. You know, we've all been there. I don't know how many hundreds, thousands conversions I've done, but I would always come back like, wow, I haven't seen that before. You think everything or been in Every situation or stressful, you know, situation in those circumstances. And there's always something new that happens. So, yes, we have all of, we bring all the technology, everything. So if a doctor wants to do one of these cases, we bring it all, whether it's scanners, printers, you know, iCams. Barbara: Wow. Speaker D: And, you know, make the transition for them very simple and they can truly just lean on us. And I want them to be so comfortable. If they don't even know that they're okay doing a case with us and they can learn along the way. Elvis: You roll in with a printer. Speaker D: Well, that's what we're going to be doing right now. Elvis: That's cool. Speaker D: Because they all want a same day temp, right? Yeah, yeah. They get a little bit too far away from us. That becomes more difficult. So, you know, and I want to introduce that technology because I want them to have it eventually. And if they see the success of it, you know, it's not hard to bring those products and set it up and do that. Speaker E: So there's a high percentage of them that do have printers too. Speaker D: Yeah, sure. Speaker E: We want to help them utilize it. You know, sometimes they don't utilize them and they're like, I just want you guys to do this, characterize it. And you know, we, again, this is new. We want to do the least amount and just focus on the surgery or just focus on the restorative end of seeding them and having the success. But we've noticed it's kind of a journey in a transition. just not all clinicians are equal or, at the same starting point when it comes to diving into this kind of stuff. So it's nice to have someone that, you know, we say, hey, we'll hold your hand from step one through Z. Or, you know, we'll fill in the blanks for you. You do what you do. Barbara: Wow. Elvis: Do you still do conventional conversions or you switch everybody to the printed. Speaker D: Well, no, we. Whatever the doctor wants. So it's really interesting when we started this, you know, when doctors become very comfortable and they don't like change and when something works, it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to change, even if it is better sometimes. We all know the accuracy of an ICAM and those processes. So if they don't want to utilize that technology, we'll still come in and do analog. We're here for them and they're the doctors and they're the ones making those choices. So I just want to have everything available. But we're definitely pushing it and we're not doing a lot of chairside analog conversions anymore. But there are still doctors want those and haven't quite bought into all this new technology and they just like the workflows with what they found success in. So I don't want to take that away from them. You know, that can also be a success. But of course it'the efficiencies aren't there and you're opening yourself up to some more pitfalls when you do analog. But it's been really great. Yeah. The power of photogrammetry is real. And you know we have, we fly to California and we'll. We work with groups and they'll schedule five patients. Eight arches in one day. And we'll see all in one day. Barbara: Wow. Speaker D: We have our designers on call and they're designing and we're out there characterizing, helping scan and helping those cases be successful in doing that many artes. Now that's not really possible in the analog world to do something like that. Barbara: Is that the two of you or do you bring a technician? I mean are you guys that hands on still? That's amazing. Speaker D: It just one. It's just. Speaker E: I mean it's a funny story. Just last Monday it was the two of us that went out and one of us being Mike ended up having the flu and spent the entire day in the hotel room. So Darren was on his own the whole time and managed it. Great. Wow. Elvis: How many arches did you do that day? Speaker E: eight. Speaker D: Ye. Barbara: Impressive. Elvis: Wow. Speaker D: Yeah. Five patients say arches. So they, you know, I think they have six or seven ops and we really figured out a great system. But I'm there just to, you know, I bring my ICAM, our scanner. So we got a couple ICAMs going, a couple scanners. They have a really great team and we just go from patient to patient. It's pretty crazy. Start at 6:30 in the morning and we usually leave 7, maybe 8 if we have some issues or something. So it's a long day. But those are huge days for those docs. Elvis: It's huge days for the lab too. Speaker D: Yeah. Speaker E: And we have our designer. You know, keep in mind we have in lab designers that are devoted these, they're scheduled on our, on our schedule to be able to, to be there the whole day on hand for these thingseah. And oftentimes, you know, our head designer. Terrific. I mean he's. Things don't always go well. So there's been times where he's there till 7, 8 o'clock at night still designing and helping in those situations. But, you know, that's a pretty big ask to have days like that. And we probably wouldn't have done it in days pass because of really demanding the quality. Diamond Head uses photogrammetry to document surgeries and pictures And so we just want to make sure that all of those experiences still stand behind what we stand for with Diamond Head, which is always a challenge, you know, where efficiency meets profitability, that meets quality. And, and so, you know, there's all of that we're juggling. In the middle of all this, a lot of thought goes into how do we still maintain who we are? Because it's really tempting for labs to, you know, and we got caught up into that game early on and everything. You know, there's something sexy another lab'doing let's incorporate that. We're idiots because we're not doing this. And we've learned very quickly that, you know, what. We just got to stay within our own vision. So. Barbara: Yep. I love that. That's so true. And it sounds like it's working very successfully for you guys. We have not talked to another lab that's flying into a, clinician's office and doing eight arches in a day. Speaker D: Yeah, it's unique. I mean, you have to have a lot of confidence and you can pull it off before you suggest anything like that. Barbara: Ye, that's my point. Speaker D: But, you know, I mean, that's the power of this technology. it's. If you can really tap into and utilize it, you can offer a lot of value and gain the confidence in, in those offices and those surgeons and dentists and staff. But yeah, it's been really good. And we just had a big program on it last week just on photogrammetry. And we have so many assets now with documenting the surgeries and pictures and the life's being changed. You know, there's just a vast amount we can talk about. And we'figured out the pitfalls in photogramc, just like we figured them out in analog. Because there are pitfalls. Barbara: Right. Speaker D: So when you get to do that many cases in a day, week after week, you really start to understand what works, what doesn't, what to look out for, you know, what creates the, you know, the accuracies, things like that. Elvis: Yeah, you mean there's pitfalls with technology. Diamond Head is in a Growth mode right now What, so what's next for Diamond Head? What's the next big thing? Speaker E: I think, you go through phases of growth and re establishing new processes, re establishing new workflows. I think now it's, I mean, we're, we've been in a growth mode. We're in a Growth mode. But, you know, we have to be careful and always take those moments to stabilize and, you know, grow, stabilize, grow, stabilize. So, you know, we're kind of in hybrid of that right now. Sometimes you don't get a choose your timing when it comes to that kind of stuff. Elvis: Oh, yeah, Definitely not. Speaker E: yeah, sometimes you do. I mean, we have had to hold the door back. We've had to pass on some opportunities, and wisely, in hindsight, it hurts. It's painful to pass on opportunities at times, and I think that's where the discipline comes in. We've had to be extremely disciplined to let go of some things just to make sure that, again, we're staying within the vision that we set out to do. It served us well. And sometimes that's the challenge. Speaker D: Yeah, Yeah. I think we're in the mode right now, really, just taking care of our accounts and making sure we're putting our best foot forward every day. Barbara: Awesome. Speaker D: you know, we've had reps that's been out there at this moment. We brought that back in house. And Gabby, who you spoke with, is an integral part of our company, and she's kind of taking on that role. But it's more about for us right now just customer retention and organic growth. Love it. Elvis: Yeah, you all have an amazing story and just love what you're doing and the mission statement and the North Star and all that. I love it. Speaker D: Well, thanks. yeah, you know, nothing ever goes perfect. I'm sure we've had every problem that every other lab has had. Speaker E: Sure. Speaker D: We do want to be a destination for people within the industry, and we don't hold things close to our best. You know, I really enjoy talking to other lab technicians and brainstorming and so, no, we welcome anyone out there who wants to collaborate with this. I do believe that's where we fell behind as an industry early on when I started and back in, early days, it was. Competition was too high and people didn't share, and I think it really hurt us and ra to the bottom. Speaker E: Bottom. Ye. That's what caused it. Speaker D: And I think if we take a different approach, it helps us maintain things that we do and have the things that we do. Appreciate it. The hard work that we all put into this. Yeah. Elvis: Couldn't agree more. Barbara: Yeah. Elvis: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We appreciate ite. Barbara: Good luck to you. Speaker D: Yeah. Love to do it again in the future. Check back in with you guys. Elvis: So, yeah, absolutely. Speaker D: You know, we follow you guys and, you guys do a really great job It's a really great resource out there for everybody. So thank you. Thank you guys for what you guys are doing. Barbara: Thank you. Elvis: No, thanks. We appreciate that. And hopefully, we'll see you at a Cal Lab. Barbara: Calab Lab day. See you in. Speaker D: Yes, you will. Awesome, huh? So I look forward to coming and saying hello, meeting in person. Barbara: Yes. Elvis: perfect. Speaker D: I don't know why I haven't. I walked by your booth, watch you do your podcast, the lab day stuff, and I'm always so busy running around, I haven't stopped in to introduce ourselves. So we get it. Again, thanks for the opportunity. Elvis: Absolutely. You guys have a good weekend. Speaker D: Thank you too. Thanks. A huge thanks to Darren and Mike for coming on Voices from the Bench podcast Barbara: A huge thanks to Darren and Mike for coming on our podcast to talk about you guys journey and the story of Diamond Head Dental Lab, which I really love that name. We love hearing about bench technicians that grow to provide a positive culture that allows other technicians to work while keeping the same important importance of passion and quality that you guys share. It is really, honestly so cool how you take the time every year to make out plans to always make sure the lab is following your North Star. You guys really inspired me. Just saying. Thanks again, Darren and Mike. We will see you at Calab in February. Elvis: That's all we got for you, everybody. And we will talk to you next week. Barbara: Hey, Merry Christmas. Elvis: Not yet. Barbara: Go watch the moies celebrate. Have a good one. Speaker E: Bye. Barbara: I've got my hat on. I got my bells on. Elvis: Not even December yet. The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench llc.