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So Barb, it's confession time.
Oh boy, Elvis, what did you do now?
I actually snuck down to the exhibition halls this year at lab day.
Oh my God, you did not.
Oh, yes I did. I went to visit our friends at Follow Me Technology.
The HyperDent crew.
The very same. And let me tell you, HyperDent was everywhere. Every other booth I walked up to, someone was talking about milling strategies, templates, workflows. It was like a CAM takeover.
I love that guys, quietly taking over the world one tool path at a time.
Exactly. And their milling roadmap activity, huge success.
Really, Elvis, I guess. I'm really not surprised.
Yeah, a ton of people were doing the scavenger hunt, bouncing between Axis, Imagine, DOF, Roland, collecting their stamps like responsible adults.
Responsible adults chasing an amazing scooter.
Oh yeah, the scooter. That thing was a hit too. I actually saw it zooming around the show more than once. Almost got hit by it.
Yeah, I know, so did I. Lots of near misses, you know.
You know, it's funny to me. You got this group of very serious, very smart cam engineers talking toolpath, validation protocols, microns, blah, blah, blah. And then they're ripping around lab day on a bright orange folding electric hyperdense scooter.
Yes, I know, but I really love that.
Yeah, you know what? I do too. It's proof that you can be extremely technical and still not take yourself too seriously, which I think we know about.
Yes, of course. And honestly, what a fun group.
Agreed. Big shout out to the Follow Me team. They brought the brains and they brought the fun this year.
And apparently. The horsepower.
Electric horsepower. Nice. Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info at voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 413 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
My name's Barbara.
Again. What's happening, Barb? How are you?
I'm fantastic.
Yeah? We had quite the week.
Jesus, I don't even know how we made it through, but we did.
Chicago, Cal Lab, Lab Day. It's all done.
I know. And it was amazing.
Yeah, but unfortunately, like usual, we're actually recording this before we even head out.
I know.
By now, we hope everyone had a great time. They made it back to their lab. It's Monday. No one got arrested. No one needed bail.
Well, you don't know that, actually. That could be somebody got arrested.
Only if it was a good time.
Okay.
So next week you'll have to wait for us to recap the time in Chicago. And it won't be long before we start releasing all those amazing conversations we had.
And you know we're going through.
Oh yeah, hundreds of hours. Well, maybe not hundreds.
Well, if you have your way, yes.
I want to fill my computer to the brim with great conversations with people from all over the world.
Yeah, but then we roll right into DLAP, then we roll right into Exocad Insights. So I mean, you're going to have content off the wazoo.
And you know, if I have anything to say about it, we'll split We've done another show in between.
Yeah, I know. So what's going on this week?
So this week is a treat of an episode. So years ago when I was with Preet, I got to visit a lab in Pennsylvania called Cornerstone, and I met the owner, Jay Collins. To say that Jay is one of those people to tell it like it is is an understatement. Over the years, running into Jay at meetings like Visions or Cal Lab, I came to appreciate and be a little jealous at his approach to sales.
No, you.
Eventually, Barb and I, we got him to come on the podcast to get the story of how his lab got the name The Dental Lab. Jay comes from a large family of a bunch of people with names that all start with the letter J.
Yes, I did love that.
It gets a little confusing, but with half of them being union steamfitters and the other half making teeth, lucky for us, Jay got into making teeth. While trying to get his full story, we actually just kind of slip into some pretty impromptu sales role-playing.
Oh, God, yeah.
To learn more about Jay's style of sales that can really only be described as aggressively calm.
Love it.
So join us as we role-play with Jay Collins.
Hey, voices from the bench listeners, Barbara here. Are you ready to take your digital dentistry skills to the next level? Then you do not want to miss Exocad Insights 2026. It's happening April 30th through May 1st on the stunning island of Mallorca, Spain. We're talking two full days of powerhouse keynotes, hands-on workshops, live software demos, and top tier industry showcases all in one incredible location. And yes, Elvis and I will be there too, bringing you exclusive on-site interviews that you won't hear anywhere else. Now here's something extra special this year. The Women in Dentistry Lunch. It's a celebration of the women who lift this profession higher every single day. You'll hear from an inspiring panel about career growth, bias, well-being, and the real stories behind their journeys. It's one of those rare events that reminds you why your work matters and how powerful we are when we support one another. And of course, I look forward to the legendary EXO Glam Night. You can network, listen to music, and have unforgettable fun under the stars. Tickets are going fast, so head to exocad.com/insights-2026 and grab yours today. And just for our listeners, listeners, Voices from the Bench listeners, use the code VFTBPALMA15 for 15% off. We will see you in Mallorca.
If you want to grow your business, you need to truly understand what's going on inside it. And of course, what's going on with your customers. And that's where Acornica comes in. It's the tool that makes seeing and acting on those insights easy. My name is Robert Rizzo. I'm the Head of Marketing, Sales, and Education at Canadian Dental Labs. We've been using Ancortica for over two years now. It's become a cornerstone of how we operate. Ancortica enables my team and our organization to process all the vital information about our business performance and our customers' journey at a glance. It helps quickly identify where we should focus our efforts and figure out what the next best steps should be. With built-in tools, it helps take the guesswork out of decision-making and lets us realize opportunities early, and very importantly, helps us solve problems before they become too big to fix. And when we have questions, Rob and his team... have to give out a shout out to Prudence, are incredibly responsive. They're always there to help us get the most out of the tool, and they feel like a real partner invested in our success. So if you're serious about growing your business and understanding customers better, Icortica is the tool that can get you there. To learn more or to schedule time with us to discuss your needs, visit icortica.com/voices. That's Icortica, I-C-O-R-T-I-C-A dot com slash voices. Icortica, helping dental labs grow.
Voices from the bench. The interview. Everybody ready to rock and roll?
Yes, sir.
Let the healing begin.
Let something begin. Geez. So Barb and I, of course, are super excited to welcome a gentleman to the podcast who I think for about five years, I've asked you to come on roughly here and there every time I see you. But the man that's come up with the greatest name for any lab, Jay Collins. How are you, sir?
I'm doing well. I did very well for avoiding you for five straight years, all of a sudden.
You did. Throwing it down in the 1st 30 seconds.
Flying to Vegas for you to point me finally. Got me in Vegas.
Yeah, we finally connected. You finally agreed. And I love this, you know, because you named your lab the dental lab.
Yeah, thedentalab.net.
Thedentalab.net. I know there's, you didn't start that way, so I know there's a long story to get to this point, but let's hear it, Jay. How the hell did you get into this business?
Like a lot of us, I don't think you, most of us don't pick dental. I think dental picks you. Yeah. So I had an uncle who was a steamfitter in Philadelphia, and he got drafted, and instead of going over to Vietnam, they made him a dental technician.
He was a whatfitter.
He was a steamfitter, steamfitter. So in Philadelphia, there's the local 420, it's Union Steamfitter. So think of large scale HVAC, all right?
Okay, yeah.
Old school buildings, like the Empire State Building was completely ran on three pounds of steam. Steam ran cities. That's why when you're in a big city like New York or Philadelphia, you see all those steam grates and all the steam coming up. Yeah. That's how you generated electricity, heat, everything was made through steam and being a pipe fitter was a very, lucrative, dangerous job. You know, it was called being a steamfitter. And then that led into HVAC and stuff. So my grandfather came over from Ireland, Irish Catholic. He was a steamfitter. My dad, my uncle Jerry, my first, you know, the first boy was a steamfitter. My father Joe was a steamfitter. And then James Lawrence, I'm sorry, James Elliot Collins was steam fitter uncle Jimmy Jimmy Collins drafted and they made him a Dental technician and when he came home my grandfather asked him. What do you want to do? You want to do the pipes or the teeth and he said you want to stick with the teeth and this is the this is the family lore I don't know.
So when they drafted him do you know that story of why they made him a dental technician and the reason I'm asking is because because when my dad was in the military, they gave him that choice. So was it something that he had to do or something that he chose to do? And do you know that story?
So the story is, now listen, we're Irish Catholic, so there's a lot of booze involved in our story.
I'm Polish Catholic, so I understand that.
So the story is he took some form of an aptitude test and he had good hands and they gave him the option and he was not married yet, but he was, he had his high school sweetheart, my Aunt Anne, and he figured going to Dallas was a lot safer than going to Vietnam.
Hell yeah.
You know, so, and he fell in love with the trade. he fell in love with teeth. And teeth's a weird thing, man. I know so many people who are from outside the industry who got into our industry and they're like, dude, I just stuck with it because I love teeth. And it's like, I don't even know why.
It is a weird obsession that a lot of people do.
It is. My wife is constantly asking me not to stop looking at tooth **** on my Instagram. You know what I mean? It's like, why are you making teeth that way? I want to know why he's doing it that way. And I'm not, right? So when Uncle Jimmy came home, This was 68. He got a job at a lab called Philadelphia Plaster and Castings. And I still think they are in existence. And they didn't have any work for him at the bench, so they made him a delivery driver. And this is the family story. Don't know how true this is.
Okay, we're not holding you to it, so you're good.
Allegedly, in the first week, he totaled 3 delivery vehicles with no elements. So he couldn't.
My dad put me in that fricking delivery driver and I took him on the first two weeks, I think, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And so he, obviously the owner brought him and said, Hey, James, Jim, you can't drive, let's see if you can make teeth. Within a year, he opened his first dental app, Collins Dental Ceramic. And that thing ran for about a strong 50 years. 50 years.
Five zero.
Yeah, he was some variation. I bought it off of him. So he would be at the bench today at 80 plus years old if I would let him. I had to fire him to get him out of it. Yeah, we actually got into a fight over a case and I told him it was time for him to go. It was a family business, Barb. You know, it's always tough, you know? And so, but it was interesting. My grandparents had the three boys and they had what's referred to in the Philadelphia area as oops baby. You guys know what an oops baby is?
I'm one.
All right. There you go.
Baby you don't plan for 100%.
But it's not like an unplanned pregnancy when you're in height. Like, it's more like we're done. Our family's fine. We have three kids. And then 12 years later, you're pregnant again.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
My grandparents got pregnant with their youngest son. John Collins. And John was, he was a rebellious, rebellious child.
He was 12 years different from the kids.
Yeah. So us Collins' hail in the Philadelphia area from a section in Northeast Philly called Alamy. By the time John came around, Alamy wasn't too safe anymore. So my grandparents moved, what we like to say in the Philadelphia area, we went down the shore. So they moved to the beach, Ship Bottom, which is a part of LBI. So Uncle John grew up kind of like a surfer dude. right.
They're surfing in Pennsylvania.
New Jersey, South Jersey.
Jersey, okay, okay.
And so he lived down the shore and my dad and my grandfather and my uncles commuted to Philadelphia to be steamfitters. And John really didn't know what he wanted to do with life, but he knew he wanted to party and he knew he wanted to have a good time and he was good at that. And he fell into the lab space. And so what happened was John and Jim were working together. It was Jim's lab, Uncle Jim's lab. John ran his prosthodontics department and we had the Great War the Great Brotherly War that split the family apart again so Uncle Jim came along and split the family so half the family Elvis half my family are union steamfitters half my family are dental technicians so Bart my father passed away when I was 14 if he didn't if he didn't pass away when I was a kid I'd probably be a steamfitter my dad owned his own company my brother works there family works there I would probably be running a steam computer operations instead of a dental lab.
So which one was your dad? The surfer.
My dad was Joe. So when Jerry, Joe, Jimmy, John. And that's. Jesus. Oh my god, they're all J's? Jesus. And that's why my name is Jay. My real name is Jay. And why my dad named me after all the boys. Wow. And then my son's name is Jackson, son of J. That's where that comes from.
Well, is there something to the J that you guys had to have a J? Sorry, I know it's not dental, but I need to know.
No, it's just my grandfather was Jeremiah and He named all four of his boys with a J name and, you know, and then there's all the boys, it just kind of stuck. It was like, you know, and now you kind of don't want to be the one that breaks it, right? You're like, okay, you know, so it's interesting.
You only have to buy one letter on one stocking for everybody.
Absolutely. So what happened was working for Jim historically is not easy. And if Uncle Jim, I love him to death, you know, he was good at managing people, half as good as he was making at Teeth, he would have had the largest lab on the East Coast. So he pushed, he drove people away.
That's a fair assessment of him because you were probably like, okay, I don't want to be that way.
Correct. And it's not, it's just honestly, he was a big fan of micromanaging, right? He was your typical lab owner in regards, usually the typical lab owner is the best single technician. And then everything, he's the hub and everything spokes from him, right?
So he has to touch everything.
I don't know anything about that, you guys.
And it's tough because listen, I'm the lab owner. And when the big clients have a problem, whose throat do they want to choke? Mine. You know what I mean? And then you get that ego and that pride mixed up. And it's hard. It is. It's hard running these businesses because it's high volume, low margin, and it's not very rewarding sometimes. You know, we take a lot of punches, you know? So Uncle John and Uncle Jim had a blowout fight. over a case 'cause Uncle Jim got his you know what ripped on the phone with a doc. So this is the story once again, Irish Catholic War. So apparently it was a Friday. Uncle Jim said, you know what? Not a single piece of leaves your department without me checking it from here on out. Oh. And Uncle John said, okay, fine. Now Uncle John ran the removal of the prosthodontic department. Everyone left. Uncle John's in his department doing his thing. All right. He decides, he calls my aunt Donna says, hey, I got to work late. I'll be back later. Now, this is before cell phones and all that. And Barb, you remember when dad used to call and say, I'm going to work late. You knew you weren't seeing him until. Oh, yeah.
For sure.
And you didn't bother him either because it was going to be your *** if you bother.
Then you'd get when he got home. Yeah.
Right. You know, it's like, you know, it's like, I'm getting this whoop in one way or the other. Let's not make eye contact.
Run, run.
Yeah. So Uncle John pulled a whole weekend shift. And this is the story. He did every single case in his department from entering the case to pouring the model work to manufacturing, from setting the teeth to casting the frames to finish it. He did everything. So on Monday, when everyone walked in, there was no work left in the department. He got it all done ready for billing. And apparently the last thing he did is he went up in the bathroom, took a case pan, and he defecated in it.
Oh, I thought you were going to say he had a middle finger and said, F off, people. Wow, I didn't expect that.
He put a script on the pan and said, hey, Jim, love you. Check this out. I'm done. And he never worked. Irish folks, you guys don't play. Yeah, well, he was the only.
Johnny Depp and Amber Heard knew.
Yeah, right. So, Uncle Jim and Uncle John are still best friends of this day. But John went and started his own lab from there, you know, and that kind of split the family. So Jim had Collins Dental Ceramic, Uncle John had Biocomp Dental, and Uncle Jim was a well-known volume, large ahead of its time lab in Philadelphia area. And John was more of a boutique niche, high end implant and crown and bridge lab. So, so far you guys are tracking, right?
I think so. Yeah. Somebody named Jay did something. Yeah.
One of us says anyway.
Well, we'll use the AI to put it all together later, right? Yeah, please. So everyone's running their lives, everyone's doing their thing. I come along and I do something in my family that's never been done before. I went to.
How old were you?
I was in high school and I was really good at football. And I got the opportunity to play college football division two in Bloomsburg University. And I went to school, I went to college. And this was odd. Men in our family don't go to college. We're either steam players or dental technicians, right? What my dad passed when I was in eighth grade, you know, football legitimately saved my life. If it wasn't for football, I would have been a statistic. You know, those guys grabbed ahold of me and I was very blessed. Very much. Go to school. And I got a business management degree and I met my now wife and she was an all-American soccer player. And I was kind of like Van Wilder. I never wanted to leave. My freshman year, I bought a house. I rented it to my roommates. I started a construction company. I was very entrepreneurial. I was grinding and I made my own way kind of thing. And when I got done, everybody in my family's teasing me, like, all right, college boy, what are you gonna do next? Now you got this degree and you have all these prospects. I said, well, I know what I'm not doing. I'm not doing pipes and I'm not doing teeth.
You said you weren't doing teeth.
I said it. I said it. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go my own way. So I got back to the Philadelphia area and I got into Windows roofing and siding on the residential side. And I ended up building up a couple crews and we were doing good. We would rip about two and a half roofs a week, you know, siding jobs, small additions. We were just grinding in and out, just a residential carpenter, small crew, and everything was going all right. And I was in love, you know, still I'm in love to my wife and we were engaged and '08 happened. The market popped.
Oh, I remember that.
And no one had money to put roofs on their houses no more, right? No one was building additions. People were more concerned about eating, you know? So I was scrambling. My wife, my fiance moved down at the time. She was become my fiance, Ashley. She was a teacher, a special ed teacher. She got a teaching job. And I'm like, what the frick am I going to do for money? Because when you're in love, you need money, right? right? Unless one of you wants to go naked and the other one wants to go hungry, it takes work, right?
Yeah, sure.
So I went to my uncle, my Uncle John, and I said, hey, I would love to sell teeth for you, you know?
Why'd you go to that uncle?
Uncle Jimmy's tough, man. He's just up and Uncle John, his son Jesse was my best friend growing up. His son Sean was a little bit older than me. My Uncle Jimmy's boys were much, they were 10 to 12 years older than me. So I'm close to them. And side note, almost everyone's worked for me in the family at this point too, right? So like Uncle Jimmy's son Chris runs my implant department. He's my best friend. He's 10 years older than me. I see him every day. You know what I mean? So like I've always been the... The aggressive calming spirit in the family. Everyone, I've always managed to figure out a way to talk and to get along with everyone, even when I didn't like you. So I still figured out how to get along with you.
Did you just call yourself aggressive calming.
Yes. Okay. Now I know, but people who know me know that I- No, it tracks, man.
It tracks.
Right, you know me, Elvis. I'm very aggressive, but somehow I have this calming nature. Like people talk to me, people wanna share their story with me and I love hearing them. That's part of the reason why I love this industry, because everyone's so open in this industry, right?
Yeah. So you wanted to get into sales, Right?
Yes. Why? So I figured that would be the best use of my talent. So you look at it. What is my father, though he passed when I was young, he taught me a lot of interesting lessons about life, but the Two best lessons I learned about business came from my mom, the school teacher. I'll get into that in a second. When my father explained to me, he said, listen, figure out what no one else wants to do and do it better than everyone else and you will always have a job. People will always pay you for that talent.
That's great advice.
What do dental technicians hate doing? Talking to people. right? Yeah.
I dislike implants, just saying.
That's fine. Hey, Barb, if I said you had to make 350 sales calls this month for next year, would you enjoy that?
No.
All right. If you said that to me, I said, I'll have that done by Tuesday. What's up? Right? Awesome. And I'm not saying I enjoy it. I just got myself to do it. Right? So what I knew, Uncle John just started his outsourcing lab, right? Because, you know, my family got involved with outsourcing to China back when they used to get death threats at the lab. You're talking 30, 30 plus years, right? And my uncle hated it. Like he was patriotic. You call me pig, you know, all that. But what happened with him was he could never grow his boutique lab past like 3 million bucks. You could never find enough technicians, enough work. And one day, a salesperson came in, who ended up becoming his partner in the outsourcing lab, and he came in and hit, you know, sales is luck, you know, but luck's timing, right? Oh yeah.
And it's very attractive.
That helps, but it can hurt you.
That's what I roll with. What do you do, exactly?
Obviously, I did some dental sales role-playing in Vegas. with my techniques.
He thought they were hilarious.
Hey, listen, we did not bring any toys into it. He went on his own with the guys from Zest to get his toys, not me, okay?
Elvis knows how to censor.
I was not invited to that party it was.
Vegas guys come on it was it.
Was but hey you know it stays in Vegas Barb right right.
I'm sorry to your wife I I went under a little bit I'm sorry let's get back up pick that's.
Okay let's get ahead of Barb's level let's go.
So at that time he was starting his out outsourcing division. And he said, listen, he goes, I don't care what you do to your reputation, your word. This is outsourcing. Because great dental labs are built on reputation and markets, right? He was kind of hands off, not wanting to touch it, but he said, go nuts. And they put me out on the road. I had no business. Like they didn't give me any house accounts. They didn't give me a card. They didn't give me anything. It was straight 1099. In 12 months calendar year, I built a book of business that was gonna do, it was tracking to do 1.8 million in sales.
From your uncle, correct? So it was his lab.
Correct, that built his outsourcing line. And it wasn't just me walking in and saying, I'll beat your price. You know what I mean? And I was very clear too. I explained to them it was made in China. So this is 20 years ago. So it was, I was walking. into offices explaining them our business model and I was getting you know like basically stared at and spit at you know what I mean so but what I figured very quickly that that outsourcing model fills gaps right it's not for everybody it's not for every office but there is offices that can't do dentistry without a cheaper alternative and we can't make it in America for the price point they can pay that the reimbursement will work and that was the niche I looked for. I wasn't arrogant, I wasn't ignorant. I didn't walk in there and say, Hey, this is the silver bullet that ails you. And I'll be honest with you, when I walked in the office, they're like, Oh my God, you can save me a bunch of money. I got nervous. I was like, Whoa, this isn't for every freaking case you do. You still want to use your lab, but this is for other things. And that's how I positioned it, and it worked. I wasn't married yet. I had no kids. So I would go missing for three days at a time and literally sleep in my car and shower in LA Fitness. And I would just be out on the road. I would just leave Philadelphia and drive to Pittsburgh and come back. And four days later, I'd stop off in 180 to 250 offices.
Wow. That's incredible.
Well, because it was a numbers game. I figured out very quickly, the faster I could get the doctor to say no, the more people said yes. And here's what I mean I never took think it overs. If I walked in and I said, hey, Barb, I want you to make a decision and say, Barb, say, tell me you're gonna think it over.
I gotta think it over.
All right, hey, Barb, that's bull . It's a no for now. You call me if you change your mind.
You would say that.
It depends on, Elvis, it would depend on the body language and the feeling.
Sure, sure, sure.
Can you say you're in Philadelphia?
Yes.
Well, there you go. Hey, Joe.
Yeah, we're young, baby.
Yeah.
But no, but like, I would say that if it tracked, I would say, you know what I mean? But Elvis, the whole point of this is I just took the power away from Barb because we all lie, right? Oh, yeah.
If I'm thinking about it, it really means no.
And guess what? Elvis, let me tell you a little secret. No one's going to hell for lying to a salesperson. It's actually right. And so I just called everyone out on their lies very nicely. You know, it's like, hey, Wait, what does think it ever look like to you? And they'll be like, Huh? What? Listen, why don't we just say it's no? You're just not interested. Well, no, and a lot of times, Barb, a lot of people would say to me, No, I didn't say no. Well, I said, Well, then you want to try? You want to try the case? Yeah, I guess we will.
Yeah, that'd be like going the other way. You just pulled them in.
So the concept we use is we push you to no. we're just trying to you know and I would say this and Elvis you and I went over this in Vegas I would go like if the front gatekeeper was being really hard and I couldn't get past them I would just tell him straight up hey listen until I hear no from your dentist you're gonna see me a whole lot I'm sorry my boss who off the record was me he's a and he's gonna make me keep coming in here until I get a note on paper from your boss do you want to see me every day or you want to do this right now?
Did you teach yourself that?
So a lot of it was natural. And then about two years in, I found.
That's the aggressive part.
The aggressive part?
You found what?
It's the Sandler selling system.
Oh, what is it?
Adam Sandler? I've heard of that.
I've heard of that. I don't know how, but I have.
It's phenomenal. It's been around for about 40 years and it teaches you how to, see what, and Barb, I do this a lot with lab guys, right? Because my career has grown to a lot of mergers and acquisitions and a lot of helping and a lot of doing other things and building things. And what I've learned is the average lab, does not have a sales department. And if they do, it's more like a take the call. It's an emergency drive across town, pick up. Oh, yeah. Off department, right?
Is that you, Elvis?
No. Well, no, because my lab is 2 hours south of me. But if I was in the same area as the lab, hell yeah. I mean, I still take the calls, but I just don't run cases because it's out of my area.
And what I try to teach lab guys is you have to treat your sales department like your ceramic department, like your CAD/CAM department, like your finance department. It is just as important as the rest of them. Because if your sales department is running smoothly and running right, you're always going to have a new influx of doctors trying you, you're going to get products that you want to manufacture, you're going to get the margins that you want, and you're going to have less bullsh*t if it's professionally ran. If you have a bunch of people who are, I like to say, amateur salespeople, it's going to be chaos, you know, and a lot of lab people don't want that. They just say, you know what? I'm just not going to do it. I'm going to do word of mouth. I'm going to do a flyer. I'm going to team up with this implant person and whatever happens, happens. But when times get tough, like we are currently and what we seem to be getting deeper into, sales is what you want to grow, not what you want to cut. And most companies cut sales when they have revenue problems.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's what they think is the easiest thing to save money on when it's just not true. I mean, yeah.
I mean, it's cutting your nose off to spite your face. It's what it is. You know, if you don't really analyze the whole sales department, you know what I mean? And have a process, you're not, it's not gonna, it's not gonna work, right.
So you walk in there and you're saying, here's my proposal, here's what I have to offer. Let me think about it. Bullsh*t, no. What do you do? How do you follow that up? I mean, you just say it's no and you leave.
So why don't we start, since, I didn't expect to do this, why don't we start at the beginning, all right?
Yeah.
Oh, are you guys gonna role play now?
No, all three of us are. Hey, Barb.
Let me turn off the lights, hold on.
Hey, Barb, you're gonna be in the front office. You're gonna be in the front desk, okay? And Elvis is gonna be the doctor. Not trying to be stressed either. I just think Barb's gonna be a tougher front desk than Elvis is.
That's right.
Okay. All right. So let me, before I say action, when we get into role play, okay, let me set the scene. Bart, you are 23 years old. You didn't finish college. You graduated. You were the apple of your dad's eye. You had all the boys in town chasing after you, and now you're making 15 bucks an hour and no one will return your call. All right? Yeah. Okay. I'm her. All right, I am a happy-go-lucky salesperson with a pristine shirt, pen in my pocket, big smile, and a haircut, okay? All right.
Are you hot? Are you hot?
What's that?
And how old are you and are you hot?
I will be slightly older, I will be 27, no ring on my finger. Can I have your favorite treats with me, either donuts, off whatever okay because you guys have never seen him before okay now you have been instructed by Dr. Elvis that you do not let anyone pass you to see him at all I don't have time for that no matter what okay?
Nobody got time for that.
Exactly right got it okay we're in scene action Hi Barb, nice to meet you. My name's Jay Collins from the dental lab. How are you doing today?
I don't know. How are you doing today?
I'm doing great. Is Dr. Elvis available.
No, he's with a patient.
Oh, okay. I noticed that you guys, last time I was in here, you guys really like Panera, so I brought you some Panera. Would you want this?
Yes.
Oh, awesome. Hey, you think Dr. Elvis would be available in like 15, 20 minutes? Should I hang out?
I'll take that. Panera, but doctor's busy all day.
What do you think would be the best time for me to get in here to see Dr. Elvis.
I don't know, maybe like 8 o'clock at night.
Well, actually, add a role play for a second. What they usually say there, Barb, is leave your ****. If he's interested, we'll call you.
I will say that. Cut that out. 28 minutes and 30 seconds.
Got you.
Okay.
All right. So, hey, Bart, when would be a good time for me to come back and actually see the doctor?
I would just say leave that and we'll get back to you. All right.
Thank you. All right. Out of role play. So that's usually how a prototypical cold call in person would go for me.
I would agree to that.
All right. And the reason why what I've learned is this concept of we gave the bar background. She did not, when she was dreaming of her future, thinking she was going to be the front desk at a dental office, right?
No.
All right. So her life sucks. But what sucks more? Being a rotten salesperson for a dental lab. And you know what little power barb has? Ruining my freaking day. Hell yeah. And that's just in your psyche, right? You might not think like that, but like that's really what's playing out there, right? Okay. So what I learned is I didn't have time for that **** right? Because Me and my wife wanted to get married. We want to have kids. We want to have a family. We want a future. I need money. The only way I know how to get money is by selling you good dental labs, restorations, right? Okay. All right. We're going to go back in role play. All right. I'm going to in this obviously would be better for a face to face.
It could be actually.
Yeah. I'm going to walk up in our imaginary role play. I'm not going to say anything, okay? You're going to ask me for my name and we'll go from there, okay? So this is going to be a little bit choppier, but I'll explain, all right? So, all right, back in action. Okay, Barb, I'm quietly standing in front of you at the desk.
May I have your name, please?
Oh, absolutely, Jay.
Jay, what would you like? I'm curious and I'm busy.
No, you're usually asking them that you're not on the schedule.
Correct.
Well, let Elvis do it then. Damn.
All right, Elvis, you ready?
Yeah, I'm ready. Name, please?
Jay.
Jay, Jay, Jay. I don't have a Jay on the schedule. Did you make a schedule online?
I'm sorry. I'm running late. It's 431. I was supposed to be at 430. I'm sorry.
I don't show you at a 430. What are you here for?
Oh, my bad. Is the doc available?
Of course not. He's busy. He's cranking it out in the back.
I'm so screwed. Is this a dental office?
Yeah, obviously.
Is this Dr. Barb's office.
It is.
Oh my god, I've been looking for you guys all day. I'm gonna get killed. I was supposed to be here probably around 4 o'clock and I couldn't find you guys. I'm so sorry about that. Is she available for like one minute?
I'd have to check, but Dr. Barb did not let me know you were coming.
I'm sorry. Well, see what she can do.
All right. I'll be right back.
So, Paul's. Yeah. So, Paul's. So, Barb.
I don't have any time to talk to him.
No, just hold on, Paul's. So what I was doing there, this is literally what I would do. What I found out quickly is if I didn't just show up and throw up, they couldn't stand the awkward silence, so they had to fill it in, okay? And if I struggled and was kind of like a mystery, they had to put the pieces together, right? So I am not in their schedule. I am not a part, I am cold calling on that. They just, they don't know that, all right? Now in my head, I have a goal to meet Dr. Barb. Right. I want to talk to Dr. Barb. I don't even know what we're talking about. I swear to God, you know, but I know Elvis is the person to get me to Dr. Barb.
Yeah.
Okay. So now in our little role play, you know, our friends at the Voices of the Bench, we did not plan this. This is organic as hell. Yes, it is. Elvis is going to go get Dr. Barb. Right now he only knows I'm Jay. And he naturally figured that out. He still has to ask me where I'm from or anything. He actually is concerned that I'm going to get. Or I'm in trouble, right? I had to confirm it was a dental office, right? I mean, of course it's a dental office. There's teeth everywhere. I had to confirm that the doctor was, well, the name's on the door, right? And but if this is real life struggle, I'm just playing it. I'm acting it, right? You know? So now Elvis, He's wishing off to see Dr. Barb, right? What usually happened when I cold called every day, and I'm not lying, what usually happened was scuttlebug in the back. Everyone's confused.
Yeah. Who's this Jay guy? Was he supposed to see Jay? Did you have an appointment with Jay? Who's Jay? Where's Jay come from?
Now, Barb and Elvis, you have both gone to offices as much as I have. You have factually been in our office and had an appointment and they have forgotten about it and totally blown you off. True or false?
Oh, totally. Totally.
True. Right? I mean, total. I literally at our Kaler location in Wichita, Kansas, went with our Zen V rep to go. We drove 2 hours into Western Kansas to meet with a periodontist who wasn't at the office.
Jeez.
It was set up for six weeks, and on speakerphone, he's like, oh, he didn't know I could hear it. He's like, oh, no big deal. Just a lab guy. Have him come out next time. You know what I mean?
I'm a little insulted.
But it's so if they were willing to do that to us and treat us like that, I was okay. All kidding aside, if you're not going to go to hell for lying to a salesperson, I was okay telling white lies again in front of the office. I got you. Let's play the game, right? So usually what would happen then, for instance, Elvis, the scuttlebutt, most of the time, the doctor, because no one knows what to do, right? All right, everyone, it's all out of, it's all out of our norms. Everyone is struggling. They don't know what to do with this, this large white male that looks like he's there to move the chair, blocking the spot, right? And usually the doctor is the alpha in the office, male or female, right? And then usually the doctor's like, I'll, and they walk out. Most of the time, this is what would happen. Elvis would go back there, Scuttlebug, Barb, you would walk out, and most of the time, the office would go, the doctor would go, I'll be with you in 10 minutes.
Yeah.
They don't know why I'm there. They don't even confirm. They're just like, in 10 minutes, I can figure this out. I just don't have time right now, right? And what I would do, so Barb, be the doctor, that's the scenario, come, you welcome me back to your office. you asked me to sit down and ask me what this is about. Back in scene. Go ahead.
Hi Jay, this is Dr. Barbara. Can you come to my office please?
Absolutely. Hey, this is such a beautiful place. Thank you for inviting me back.
You're welcome. So, have a seat. Awesome. What is this about? Can you please tell me?
I don't know. Why did you invite me in?
I was told you had an appointment.
Yeah, my corporate office said I should have been here around four. I got seriously lost. I'm so sorry I'm late. Thank you for squeezing me in. It's now 436. Yeah, so what can we help you with? What do you seem to be struggling with?
You name it. Tight times, tight contacts. You don't even know he's.
From a lab yet?
You don't even know him from a lab.
Oh, well, . I don't know.
But no, that's what would literally happen. And usually they would ask me, why are you here? Who do you do? Who do you work for? And I'd be like, oh, I work for a dental app. Do you use them? And I would literally I mean, that's a dumb question, right? So general practice is a busy street. Do you use a dental app, right? So Bart, ready? Do you use a dental app?
Absolutely, Jay. I use three of them. 3.5 exactly.
Great. You just went the NADL meeting, huh? Dr. Barb, since you have three great labs, why did you invite me in today?
But I don't know, you're from a lab.
No, no, we just, I told you that a little bit earlier. I said, hey, I'm from a dental lab, right? Okay. Yep.
I'll tell you what, Jay, you know, inconsistency, to be honest with you, communication's not great. That's a typical lab thing.
And at a role play for a second, that's literally how I would get it started. They would tell me, you know, they'd be like, well, where are you from? And then I would They're going from a lab. Do you use a lab? And they're like, yeah, of course, I use a lab. Since you have a lab, why did you invite another lab back? Not even putting 2 to 2 together that they didn't technically invite me back. They technically invited me back, but they didn't really invite me back. Right. And then I would drill. That's because just like they drill, I drill. I'd be like, well, you have three great labs. Why would you want to talk to a fourth one? And just like that, Barb, they would open up. right? And then I would just wait for them and it's usually the big three, right? Price, turnaround time, quality, right? Okay, that's the big three. Okay, so Barb, we're going to be back on role play. This is one of the things that has saved, made me a lot of money. over the years. And it's called a step in the selling system we use called a post-sale, right? And it's this. So Barb, tell me that your favorite lab, though you love them and you vacation with them all the time to the, you know, and all that, you're super close to your lab guy, you have turnaround time consistency issues. Tell me that.
Jay, I gotta be honest with you. Like my lab guy's been with me for 20 years and I'm super loyal, but to be honest with you, turnaround time is not great.
So Barb, when you call him and ask him or talk to him about that, what solutions has he offered to fix it? Or is it kind of one of those things where you just let it go at this point?
It gets better for about a week and then slips right back.
So Barb, let me ask you this question. If you switch to me and everything's going great and then we started showing the same issue, how would you handle it with me?
I would go back to my other lab or switch.
Okay, so what I'm gonna ask you, because we're probably gonna have eventually have the same issues because all dental labs have the same problems, right? You know, you've been doing this long enough, but all I want is before you get that feeling, please give me a call personally and I will handle it for you. I don't know if I'm gonna solve it, but at least I can be an advocate for you. Is that something that would help you?
Are you gonna give me your cell?
Oh, of course.
Then yeah, I think so.
At a role play for a minute, I would tell them, whatever problem, pain point they had that they were gonna try to use me to fix, I would let them know, you're probably gonna have it with me too. You know, it's just going to happen. Our contacts are going to get open. Our occlusion is going to get off. We're going to be late on cases. The bill is not going to be right. We're not perfect. Anyone who comes in here and sells you perfection is just lying to you. Right. You know what I mean? But what I'm trying to hopefully get is to give you a throat to choke. But. A direct answer, right? Like, I want to give, I want to give you a level of accountability. Maybe the current guy won't give you. Oh, and I would find out if they had all that, I would tell them not to switch. And you know how many times I would tell people not to switch? They would still switch to us.
Yeah, now they're wanting it.
Yeah, because I took it away from you. I told them I didn't need it, you know? And the truth being, I don't need it unless they want it, right? Because if it's just my side of the equation and I'm pulling instead of pushing, then it's gonna leave me as quickly as I pull it in, right? Yeah.
So in this scenario, I mean, how often did it come up where they really called out your bull and they're like, we know we didn't invite you in here.
Twice. Twice? That's it? My entire career, twice. Two very, very, one in an office, right? A doctor called me out on it. And we also, Elvis, I think you noticed, Barb, we have this actually crazy connection. I'm a vendor for Lexir and I'm also a customer for Lexir. I actually do work for Knight Dental Lab, you know, and Thompson's of Burke. Ryan Napolitano is one of my best friends.
You know what I mean?
You know, so like, yeah, so.
It all makes sense now to me, Jay.
Cornerstone, Jay, yeah, there you go.
No, I've been on many steam calls. You were just waiting until you got me in the door and sat me down and got a meeting with me to throw that in.
I was.
That's awesome.
This works on my wife too.
Yeah. Okay. Hi, Ryan.
So anyway, with that being said, I have a whole B2B business where I help labs outsource and all that kind of stuff. I had a lab guy call me out when I want to, because how cold calling on lab guys is worse than cold calling on doctors.
Oh, I bet we're ****, aren't we?
Oh, yeah. So I would call it a lab. Like, and I can't say to who's who because I would be just disrespectful, but I got guys outdoors with me that I taught the game to that never were going to do it before they met me because they needed help. They wanted to do it, but they didn't know how to do it. I would call up a lab and I would just ask for the lab owner by first name and I wouldn't give them any information. I'd be like, hey, so Elvis, I'm going to call for you, right? Barbara, answer the phone for Elvis dental lab.
Good afternoon. This is Elvis dental lab. May I help you?
Yeah, is Elvis available?
No.
Now, usually, Barb, usually they say, what's this regarding? Is Elvis available?
If you want me to role play, you need to give me prompts.
I'm sorry.
What is this regarding, please?
I don't know. I'm calling him back. And then I'd stop and not say a word. 95% of the time, he has to get on the phone with me because he's like, I don't remember calling Jay. But does every lab owner remember every person they ever called?
No.
Right.
And when did you call? I mean, that just, you call him back from earlier that day, yesterday, last week? Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know. I got this missed call from him. I don't know, Elvis, you know, can you get him on the phone for me though? And that's, I would stay with it. And then I had a guy jump on the phone. I can't say who it is because he's pretty good. And he straight up, and I was a kid. This was like 15 years ago. He's like, you're pretty good. And it took me by surprise. I said, well, thank you. He goes, do you want a job? Are you happy selling for them? I'm like, I'm very happy. Thank you. He goes, if you ever change your mind, give me a call. You can come sell for me.
Nice.
Now, the doctor, the doctor who called me out on it, My wife hates this story. Maybe she doesn't. I don't know. The doctor who called me out on it, he was ******. He was freaking hot, right? Because they pulled him out of freaking endo to see me. Right? That's how good it was. And he goes, how dare you come in here with your lies and your bull and try to sell my front desk. I'm working with you. And I looked at him and I matched his freaking ferocity. I looked at him. He's like, I'm like, you believe I have freaking time to be on sales calls? You know how ******* busy we're at at the lab? And he goes, all right, give me 10 minutes. And he sold me.
Really.
Yeah, because I matched him right where he was, Elvis. I went, listen, you want to go toe for toe. Let's go toe for toe. You know, I'm just as important as you are, right?
That is something to remember when you're doing sales for a lab. And it's hard to, because you always have that perception of, you know, doctor, we need their business. And having that mentality doesn't work.
No, you have to sell like you have $1,000,000 in your back pocket. You do.
Yeah.
You know, it hurts when you lose a big client. We lose when we gain them. It sucks. I have sales teams. I, you know, it sucks. But at the end of the day, if you are approaching the market in a scarcity mentality, you're going to get slaughtered. You have to have an abundance mentality. I've had some knockouts. Like the only thing that really makes me like, you know, cringe still is when they come to me in my office, like, can you fire this doctor? And I'm like, I don't want to fire the doctor. And then they tell me the abuse and the talk and I'm like, fine. But right away, the business owner means like, well, what are they worth? What's their scope? You know what I mean? And we look at all that. And I call and I call to fire them, which is it's a tough thing to do because it's so hard to get these damn clients. You know what I mean? And it's like, I'm taking a step backwards, but then I have to kind of prop myself up. I was like, no, there's only freaking four to 7,000 of us and there's 150,000 of them. And that's usually what I tell them. And my guys laugh because they kind of like it when I get fired up like that. And they'll see it almost like, Hey, doc, we can't solve your problem. You want to name the three labs that could probably do it for you? And you pull all the power out. When you go right there, when you go right to the end, right nuclear, it's like, Hey, listen. I don't think I can fix your turnaround issue. We're the worst lab ever. I get it. You should get all your money back plus $1,000. What labs do you want me to call on your behalf for references? They don't know what to do. You just put all their power away from them, right?
Yep.
It's like, yeah.
That's very psychological, Jay.
Well, you have to. It's the head games they play, right? Yeah. It's.
Aggressively calm.
It's aggressively.
Calm. touché.
It's my new favorite term.
Oh boy. Oh, well, you can have it. Is that going to be the name of the podcast? Aggressively calm. It might be.
It might be, yeah. But Jay, you got to tell this story. And you've told this to me a few times, and I love this, how you just walk in and you pick up cases.
Oh, okay. So.
I mean, it's the balls on you. It's unbelievable.
So it's, it has some testicular fortitude in it, right?
Did you just say balls, Elvis?
Yes, I did. It's insane.
So we, so we have, so we grew, right? We're growing. We're, you know, and we're young and dumb and, you know, the rest of the saying. And so then we decided to step out and buy our second, a second location. Now we have multi-locations. And honestly, we're still trying to figure out how to run Our million dollar a month dental lab that we grow to add another location was probably not the right timing, but with mergers and acquisitions, there's never a right time. So you get to the point where it's either or get off the pot. So we decided to stay on the pot and get it done. So we get our second location and then a third one fell in my lap instantly. So I went from one site to three sites in a matter of six months. And I'm scrambling and people on my team are like, listen, our story is very tough. I mean, what do you mean? 'Cause when you're out there, you're telling, Elvis, you know this, you're telling a story, you know? Why'd you pick the work for Darby? Why are you, it's your story, right? What works, what doesn't work? And they're like, we're confusing the market because we got Colonial in South Jersey, in West Berlin, we have Cornerstone in the Bristol Market, you know, outside of Philly, and then we have Bonifait up there in York. So like, can you think of a way an identity, be creative, kind of encapsulates all that. and I am some people have heard me say this I'm partially right all right I just I have some the stuff I'm really good at I'm excellent at the stuff I'm I have shortcomings and it's pretty big you know right so I'm like okay what is the simplest thing I can name my dental lab and I'm like oh the lab I just want to be called lab and so we went out and we tried to find it and it was taken it was taken it wasn't even our industry but But what wasn't taken was thedentalab.net. And I was like, that's genius. I wanted the shortest, most concise name ever, the dental app. That's it. So what happens is we literally, me and my sales team will walk into an office on a cold call or a sales appointment and we will say we are from the lab and the girl behind the desk or the guy behind the desk almost nine times out of 10 will turn around, pick up the boxes and hand them to us. Because they're lemmings, right? They're just in the routine, right? They're just trying to get to the Friday. They're trying to get to the end of the day. And I have instructed my team to hold on to them and wait for yourself. Your next question is, can I keep these? Right? You know what I mean? Like, just take them. They gave them to you. And then, hey, listen, they asked for them back. Ask why. Why was he so willing to give them to me? Why was she so willing to give? Is there a problem with your existing lab? Is there anything you could, if you could change your existing lab, what's the one thing? That's a great question to ask a doctor. If there's one thing you could change with your relationship with your existing lab, what would that be? You know.
So if they hand you this box and they said, I can keep this and they're like, yeah, you just walk out with it and then just do the work. They get a bill. How many follow up with a phone call saying, How the hell did you get this? Who are you? Where'd you come from?
And then we'll ask them to cross out the script. I mean, we haven't done that a lot, but yeah, we've done it. I mean, we're going to try to get that clarity before we walk out the office. But like I've been in offices where it's a show and they're like, get out of here, take the cases and go.
Yeah, I mean, we get cases sent to us legitimately using other scripts just because they're out of the other scripts and they'll just use whatever and they'll, you know, all the time. Yeah.
Yup, no, and then we just, the customer service team has to strain that out. I don't know, my job's to bring in cases. That's what they told me to do.
Is your job still that? You're the CEO, correct? You're damn well not doing that now.
I love it. I do it every day I want to. Oh my God, nothing's more exciting than the thrill of the hunt. That's fantastic. So I'm multifaceted with my organization. Yes, I am the CEO, we are privately owned, it's just me and my wife. We don't have any PE, no angel investor. We do debt deals. And when we do our merchant acquisitions, we use a bank. So I like to explain that to people. Because buying someone's lab, that's the hardest mother ****** sales call you've ever been on. Okay. All right. And I like explaining that in our story, what makes me different. Competing against my big brothers and big sisters out there, I don't have the money that they have. I don't have the resources they have. So I have to explain and teach these lab owners why, you know, will you take less money from me? theoretically, but have someone maybe more willing and more intimately caring about your legacy.
Oh, I love legacy. Yeah, that's perfect.
You know, like, so Kaylor, there was a big lab group, they'll remain nameless, had a deal done with Kaylor. All right. I don't know their side of the equation. I just know what Tom and Dennis. told me. And what they seem to be going through is what I call deal fatigue. Big money, private equity, whatever you want to call it. They get you under an LOI and they go you through the due diligence process. Same process I do, right? Anyone with accounting background will do this. And what they do is they strategically stall during the due diligence to string you out and then come back and say, Hey, we found some stuff. We can't pay you as much money. We can't pay you as much. And they do that to you strategically so you get kind of desperate where you're like, F it, let's just close, right? Yeah, that's horrible. And is it? It's capitalism. I mean, it's just the way it goes with everything. And listen, I'm sorry, but if you fall for that, you should have did your research. And that's why a lot of lab guys, when they're selling their lab or think about they're selling their lab, they punt, they say, I'm not doing it, it's so emotional, so hard. Like I have been a part of a couple acquisitions that had nothing to do with me. wasn't buying them or selling them. I just was kind of like a quiet guy in the background coaching the lab owner. Like, hey, like, no, no, that's okay that they're doing that. That's just a lawyer talk. You're okay. No, no, no, you don't want them to do that to you. That's, you don't, you're not gonna be happy with that. You know what I mean? It's difficult because if you think about it, right, Barb, if I came there to buy the lab off your dad, and anything I offered him would be an insult because it's his baby, right? Right. I mean, think of all the hundreds of hours of of his life he sacrificed with you guys for that lab.
Yeah, it's never enough.
And we do it for the family, right? At least that's what we tell them. Some of us do. And that's what we tell ourselves. And then some people fall in love with the money and the power and that's their own demons to deal with. So when you go in and offer somebody money for a business they built from the ground up, They're always going to take it as an insult, you know, and you got to walk them through that, you know, and you got to let them understand that. And what I've done with the labs I bought, I try to find out in the plan, the purchase price, what do you want, right? And one of the things like there's three values to every dental lab. There's what it appraises for, like what the experts think it's worth, what you'll take, and what I'm willing to pay. And never do those three ever line up.
No, they don't.
Very rarely. You know what I mean? And let's be honest, if they do, there's probably a problem, you know? And it's just a dance going through all that, trying to navigate those waters. So back to your original question, as we weave all the way back to the beginning. If I could do one thing all day in our business, it would be some form of growth, sales, mergers, selling. Like, I just love that. I love problem solving and the happiness that a good strategic sale can bring. Solution selling solves problems and it makes people's lives easier. And the big theme from you know, vision 21 was our keynote was talking about making life less friction, right? Making your business frictionless so that people don't struggle to do business with you, right? That was the takeaway I got, Elvis. I don't know what you got from it. And that's the sales cycle. We've all been sold to by amateur salespeople. It's disgusting. We hate it. We want to go home and take a shower. But when you have a really good salesperson, you rely like my salesperson for Arkan is Gary up here in this area. Dude, I don't know what I'm gonna do when Gary retires. You know, Gary has no problems.
And that's how it should be. I love that. That's great.
So with four locations now, do you have a sales team?
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Do they disappoint you on a daily basis?
No, they're not. Okay, so no one is as aggressive as me, obviously.
Yeah.
I don't measure, I don't benchmark them against individuals. I benchmark them against their results. You know what I mean? So like, if you're a really good salesperson, well, what does that mean? You know? Well, if you sell a million bucks year one and 2 million year two, to me, that's a really good salesperson. You know, like, so that's an easy benchmark.
I'll say.
But if you're selling 20 million a year in product and you only sell 20 million and a half the next year, are you still a good sales person? You know what I mean? It's all perspective, right?
Yeah.
So a big thing that we look at is retention.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
I've always said that in our industry, sales is not so much growth as it is just keeping people happy.
Yes.
So true. Because we have so much custom make we have to do and how much things can go wrong, just keeping your accounts is a challenge in itself.
And keeping people happy depends on your definition of happiness. Because what I view as happiness might not be happy for you, right? And a good salesperson has to get into all that, right?
Maybe happy is the wrong word. I just want them to send more work the next day. Correct. As long as you keep sending work, you're believing in us and trusting us and keeping that up is a good combination of communication, customer service, quality, timeliness. I mean, all of it has to come into play.
You sound like you know what you're talking about.
Yeah, I try.
Well, one of the things is you have to figure out it's not just the doctor's happiness. It's the team.
It's everybody.
It's the team's happiness. I've lost so much business learning that the most important person might not ever be in the room when I'm selling. And one of the things, like you get to the decision maker and what we have found, and Barb, I love your opinion because you do so much high-end cosmetic stuff. It's usually not the person you're talking to on the phone that ultimately matters. You know what I mean? Like, yes, the person I'm on the phone with, clinically it matters and technically it matters. But you know, Betty in the back who reconciles the statement hates that we have this extra $2.99 charge and she sees it one more time. She's going to **** all on your relationship with him.
It's never the same person in every office. You got to learn the dynamic. And a lot of the times it's not the doctor.
And what I've learned is when I get to the cusp of getting to the close, quote unquote, whatever you want to call it, I always ask this question or very similar to this question. Hey, Dr. Elvis, thank you so much. I'm so happy that you're willing to give us these cases. I'm going to take them back to the lab. Is there anybody else in the office that should be here in this room with us right now when we make this decision?
Oh, that's smart.
Well, you should probably have my assistant in here because she's the only one that knows what's going on.
And Dr. Elvis, I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful. I understand it's your practice and you can do whatever you want, but in my experience, I've learned, if Barb is not in this office right now, she might make both our lives a living hell later, right?
You know it.
That's right. Without even trying.
Right.
Dr. Ellis, why don't we bring Barb in and let's let her touch this, but let's make sure she's okay with what you're deciding.
Yeah, I like that.
If Barb's happy, I'm happy.
That's right.
You know, listen, I had a client, I cold called on, I used all my , whatever you want to call it. And he went from $0 in the first month to like $6,500 the second month. And then like $7,500 and then $8,500. And usually that's a red flag. That means he's going to try to beat me for money, right? And he paid his bill in full. And then the fifth month, zero. The sixth month, zero couldn't get him on the phone. Seventh month, zero. I was like, that's it. I got to go in person. So I drive down there, I get there. I go in the office. He sees me. He makes eye contact with me and he looks like I was like his scorn ex-lover. Like I should not be in there. He grabs me physically and says, come to back, quick, quick, before anyone sees you. I'm like, okay, ****. Like, all right, let's go. We get back there. He shuts the door. He's looking through the windows. He's like, all right, good, no one saw you. I'm like, bro, what's going on? Like, are you about to be put in witness protection? Is everything okay? Are you safe? And he goes, No, man, I just didn't want Rachel at the front to see you. I'm like, Okay, what's up? He goes, Man, your lab, your work is the best I've ever had. He goes, I had no adjustments. I had no issues. Everything came back exactly when you said I was going to come back. I'm like, All right, cool. He goes, Bill was always right. Everything was perfect. I said, Well, okay, well, what's the problem? He goes, Well, you use UPS. And I said, he goes, the lab we switched from, the driver is the owner's son and he's hot. And Rachel's trying to get a date with him. And Rachel made my life such living hell that she got me to switch back and I have to live with her. I have to see her every day. I'm sorry, but I can't use your lab.
Jesus.
That's literally a reason why someone broke up with me.
Unbelievable.
So that's the Rachel story. Like, now I gotta figure out who the Rachel is in the office. And she might not find me attractive, but she's got to find something about me that she likes, right? Because back to the psychology thing, Bart, you know, people, I have a firm belief that genuinely, almost everybody wants to do good. Like they're like, we're wicked and evil and sinful. I got all that. But like most people, if you see somebody needing help, you might be willing to help them, right? And that whole concept, especially in a professional setting like that, it's like, okay, Rachel, I'm struggling right now. You just took food out of my family's mouth, right? Because that account was paying me 10%. So they were doing 8,500. I was making 850 a month off that account and I worked my for that money, right? Rachel, what can we do together here to make make that happen. Because everybody else's life in the practice is better when they use me, except for you. know what I mean? Yeah, I never got the opportunity to have that conversation with her because I didn't recognize that. I didn't have that upfront conversation with the doctor, with the office to figure this out, you know?
Crazy. It's all about knowing the right people, you know, and having the right conversations.
We don't have contracts, right? So you're only as good as your last case.
Oh, very true. Very true. Jay, I thought this whole conversation was going to be the story of your lab. And I love the deep dive we did at the sales, but it sounds like we need to have you back on to finish that story.
I would agree. I like being the sales girl, front office.
I would say the latter fits you very well.
Thank you. Just bleep me, Elvis, please.
Just make sure before we end, Jay, that you tell Barb that the scene is over. Don't let her keep this front-off-his- attitude.
I'm going to the gym, folks. Go run it off, Barb. I am. There you go, girl. It's 50 degrees in Florida, you guys. I'm cold. There you go.
Jesus Christ.
All right, Jay, thank you so much, man. I love it. I love your aggressive calmness attitude, man.
I do too.
Well, I love you guys. You're doing good stuff.
You guys are awesome for the industry and I appreciate you so much.
Yeah, and seriously, we're going to have you back on because we got to follow up the story of when you came into the lab and What happened after that? So not now. We'll do it at another time.
We can talk about I was going bankrupt twice.
Let's do it sometime. Jay, will we see you in Chicago?
Yes, of course.
Thank you so much, man. We'll see you in a couple of weeks.
God bless you guys. Amen.
All right, have a good one.
A huge thanks to Jay for finally coming on our podcast and telling us the story of the, and I quote, dental lab, sort of. With all those family members that start with the letter J, we're actually surprised that even you can keep them all straight, because I know I can't. But while our role-playing skills might not have been the best, I totally get and respect your method of getting clients using their own inefficiencies to get work, pretty smart. We also love that you're willing to share with anybody in the industry your style, but we don't think many can pull off the aggressively calm. I think that's like an oxymoron, but I like it.
I think it works for him.
Aggressively calm it is. Thank you for all you do. We cannot wait for part 2.
And Barb, I think you play front desk very well.
Yeah, I'm not so sure. I think he wanted me to be a little bit more ***** but you know, it just depends on the day for me.
Absolutely.
And you played a great doctor.
Maybe by part two, you'll be in the right mindset to be a little. Be a little front office. All right, everybody, that's all we got for you. And of course, we'll talk to you next week. Have a good one.
I do like role playing.
The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.