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So Barb, an overdue congratulations are in order.
Oh my God. What did I do now, Elvis?
Didn't you all recently announce the Simply Arch studio?
Yes, we did.
That's awesome. You know that's right up my alley there.
Of course I do, yeah.
And just for anyone who hasn't seen the announcement, what is this Simply Arch thing?
All right, so Simply Arch is our dedicated full arch lab. So it's high quality. Full arch cases are a big part of what we do. And we wanted a team and a dedicated workflow and a production environment built specifically around them.
So basically just no distractions.
Exactly. Just a bunch of full arch nerds doing full arch things.
Oh God, a bunch of nerds. Sounds terrifying.
It's never terrifying of us.
And does a new studio also mean new toys?
Yes. And of course, we recently brought in as part of the project. Hell yeah, nice. Yeah, and then of course came the cam decision.
Ah, here we go, the old cam decision.
You know, Elvis, we tested a couple options and of course we landed on Hyperdent.
Like Hyperdent, just as easy as that, huh?
As easy as that, pretty much. The quality off the machine was excellent. So that means also no hand finishing and the milling time Sometimes we're excellent also.
You're right. That does make the decision quite easy.
But honestly, what really stood out to us was the testing and implementation process.
How so?
You could immediately tell these guys live in a world of high, complex milling challenges.
That's got to build a lot of confidence.
You know what? It really did, and it really does. They weren't just showing us how the software works. They were advising us on the best way to build an entire workflow for our lab. You could tell they've done it a hundred times, guys.
That's a whole new different level of expertise. Well, congratulations on the new studio, Barb.
Thank you. Hats off to my dad for the studio. So it means a lot to me. Aw.
Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info at voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 435 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
And my name's Barbara. Good morning.
What's happening, Barb? How are you in the great state of Florida?
Fantastic.
Yeah.
I'm always fantastic.
I love it.
Yeah.
That's a good way to be.
How are you doing in the lab?
I'm doing pretty good. I mean, it's unique, different, and busy and good, and I love it, and we just got to get busy.
All right. Well, that's like the rest of the world. You got your stress. but we love it so yeah we do have it any other way yeah.
Hey you know we just recently recorded a conversation with some fine folks about the upcoming NOAC Dental Supply Labfest I know that it was a great conversation we're still a few weeks away from releasing it but Barb and I just want to hype up this amazing event it's actually happening October 15th to the 17th in Nawlins did I say it right yeah and.
I think it's pretty awesome because you're going to MC again this year, which I thought it was pretty amazing, but you got to bring it. You got to have a sparklier jacket if that's possible.
I know. I don't know what I'm going to do. I shouldn't have gone so big the first year.
You're so good at that stuff and I'm happy for you. So Elvis will be doing Family Feud?
Yeah.
And again, 15th to 17th in New Orleans.
Yeah, so last year, amazing lineup of speakers. The evening events were so fun. After this conversation this year is looking even better and we know it's gonna be better because Barb is finally coming this year And Barb brings it. She's the life of the party. I'm bringing it Yeah, so excited for this event. Yeah, let's do it So this week we meet a guy from the UK that wrote a book about our industry Matt Everett at a young age Matt knew that going into banking really wasn't this thing So obviously the only other choice was being a dental technician. He talks about his journey in school, getting into making body parts, which I love it when people do that. and eventually snore devices before snore devices were really a thing. Being an avid writer for the dental magazine, he decided to write a book on our industry and he called it The Invisible Profession.
That's such a great title and so very true.
We get into the whys and how our industry got to where it is and what we can do about it to make it to where it should be today. So join us as we chat with Matt Everett. Voices from the bench. The interview. So this is super exciting. A gentleman reached out to me. way too long ago and said, hey, I wrote a book. Will you give it a listen? And of course I was like, a book? I don't want to read, but I'll listen. There's no reading. This is awesome because it's all about the dental laboratory industry, but we're going to get into all of that Matt Everett. Is it Matthew?
Officially Matthew, but only my mom calls me that when I'm in trouble.
Yes, of course.
All right. Matt Everett.
Hello.
How are you, sir?
I'm very good, thanks. And how are you guys?
Yes, good, thank you.
Fantastic. Even when we first recorded, I was like, and Barb, before you joined, I was like, this is the guy that read the book. I hear his voice.
I love it.
So bad. We always like to start off talking about how people got into the industry. So let's not get into the book yet. I want to hear the story and then how the book came about. So lay it down for us, sir.
Absolutely. Yeah. So, well, 16 years old in my school careers advice session with this lady who I'd done like two weeks work experience in a bank. in the city centre of Sheffield.
At 16, they let you work in a bank.
Yeah, we do it. When our school's slightly different to your high school and so on. Sure. So we finish our main school at senior school at 16, and then we either go to college or we're gonna do A-levels.
Uni.
Yeah, uni could come slightly after. So we do like a two-week work experience, and usually it's, you know, It's just to kind of test out, if it's an area you like, if you like doing whatever really, it's just, sure, test out what you kind of like doing. Our school was a pretty rough school, in a really rough counsellor area. And so most of the jobs were working in a garage as a mechanic or working in a shop. And the nice one really was working in a bank. So I went, well, I'll take that one. Yeah, I'll do 2 weeks in a bank. I don't ever want. So you got to pick it. You do, yeah, you have to kind of apply. It's like a bit of a, it's like a pretend kind of work situation. So you apply and everyone says, yeah, you can have a place, you come for two weeks and you sit there in a bank. And I really enjoyed it. They were really nice people. But what it told me was, I don't ever want to work in a bank.
Yeah, way too boring, right?
Oh man, yeah. I'm not a numbers person, never have been. I think I'm slightly numbers dyslexic, I'm sure I am. no real diagnosis, but there we go. So I went back to this careers advisor and said, look, I have toyed with becoming a physiotherapist, but I'm not too sure. she said, well, you got a great report from the bank, you should perhaps apply to go and work in a bank. I said, absolutely not. the one thing I'm interested in is my sister's best friend is a dental technician. I've really got...
It's a family member, just saying.
Yeah. So it looks really interested in it, really, really interesting. I really love taking things apart and putting things back together and breaking stuff and fixing stuff. And it looks really, really interesting. So I think I'm going to apply to college to do that. And she said, Well, no, you've not thought about this enough. I think it's a terrible mistake and I think you should go back to have a look at banking. So what did I do? I went, screw you, I'm going to. I applied to college.
So your sister's friend was already a dental technician or were they in school for it or?
So my sister's best friend, her husband was a dental technician. He was a Crown Bridge technician, a fantastic ceramist. And still to this day, he was probably one of the first technicians to create a corporate lab. He sold to Bupa, which is a private health company in the UK. He then is now, he exited that and then he's now set up another lab with another great technician called Promethean. I don't know if you mind me saying that, but they had a good bunch of technicians. His name's Steve. Steve Oscar Thorpe, I'll give him a plug because, yeah, he's the reason I fell into entertainment. Got into this, man? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So that's kind of the history of it. And how I got into the career itself, I applied to college. I got really interested in, I started looking at Max Facts books, you know, maxillofacial stuff. I think in space you call it anaplastology, right? Yep, How do you know that, Elvis?
You said yep, like you know. You.
Don't know. It's all about confidence, Barb.
I'm following your lead then.
Doesn't mean that is, I do know, but it sounds like I do. No, I'm just kidding. I know.
Okay. So I went to, I got in touch with a local hospital and I said, look, I'm really keen to do work experience in the dental lab. And she said, well, it's a, this lady there called Liz said, well, you know, it's a maxillofacial lab and we do orthodontics as well. So there'll be, you know, braces and things we make, but we do facial prosthesis, we do artificial eyes, that can stuff. Wow, that has got me all over it. I'd love that. So I went and did a work experience placement there and then went off to university and did my advanced qualification at the time in Max Facts and orthodontics. And yeah, the rest is history, so to speak.
So wait a minute, before you even went to school, you were making eyeballs and stuff.
Yeah, we're making false ears and eyeballs and The ****** prosthesis was a fun one.
Oh geez.
Yeah, weird and wonderful things. And then...
How did you learn that? I mean, was there somebody there that just taught you over the shoulder type situation?
Yeah, but then I went to university in Manchester, Manchester Metropolitan University, and they ran a course there, a degree course on this. So you can specialize in maxillofacial prosthetics. So you do make obturators and dentures and funny, weird and wonderful appliances. No two days are the same, so really interesting. Yeah, really, really interesting job.
So how long was the schooling?
So you had to do dental technology first, which was a three-year course, and then the university at the time was doing a two-year course, part-time, so you had to be in the work placement, and then there was a two-year part-time course in Manchester, so I'd commute there one day a week and fiddle with bits of wire doing orthodontics and making appliances, and then doing Max Fax stuff. So, you know, making false ears and eyes. And then at the time we were making silver cap splints and arch bars for jaw fractures. Yikes. Yeah, so really cool stuff.
So when you graduated, did you go to work in a lab?
At the time there was no real commercial lab for Max Fax work. So it was all hospitals, mainly teaching hospitals, but there were a few regional units. So I moved very quickly. I once I qualified down to Guy's Hospital in London, right by London Bridge. It's still there now. I worked in their orthodontic department, so I was kind of really specialized then in orthodontics. And through a professor that was there, he was doing his MSc at the time, a master's, we got involved in sleep apnea appliances. So very, very early on in the UK.
I was gonna say, when was this?
Yeah, this was back in '98, probably.
Yeah, that was really early.
Yeah, so we were making these just soft bite guards that were welded together and we were making all sorts of weird and wonderful things. Then we started using herbs appliances. I don't know if you've heard of them. Yeah, I've heard of that. Yep.
See, Barb, you just got to sound confident.
I do.
So yeah, I've got the sleep apnea appliances. That was back in the 90s. And then I graduated, I moved from Guy's Hospital to Cambridge. There's a teaching hospital in Cambridge called Adam Brooks. And that's where my Max Fax career really took off working with neurosurgeons. And, you know, by that was I was 25 by then. And by that time, I'd reached the ceiling you could ever reach in the NHS. That was the top level you could ever get to, which was very exciting and very cool.
But then what's next?
Exactly. Yeah. And life took a bit of a change. I moved back up north and I moved back into the hospital I came from originally. And you know what they say, never return.
Full circle.
Yeah, I did. And the guy that was there originally was still there, still plotting on. that it didn't quite, the most stressful part of my day was finding work to do. You know, it was really, there was just not enough work to do. It wasn't inspiring and having work to do.
What do you mean by that? Like work to do. So what was your day like that?
Everybody had their eyes and ears.
No, it was just a really, so having worked, Adam Brooks in Cambridge, the teaching hospital there, we were encouraged to do income generation work. So basically if we, you know, if we found another department or another hospital we could do work for. So like the titanium cranioplasts, we used to call them skull plates. You know, we've been making these things for other departments and other hospitals and making false bits of limbs and fingers to fly for different hospitals. And we could then charge making money for the department. So when I moved back up, back north to my old lab in the hospital there, a district hospital, it was like almost work avoidance. They didn't want to do any work for anyone else. They wanted to just plod along, see the threat to retirement. So my day-to-day looked like, oh, making soft bite guards. And we managed to get pushed through doing some sleep apnea appliances, so making some very rudimentary sleep appliances. But it was very quiet, very slow days, very long days. And I suppose the most exciting part of it was when we were doing on call. So you might get called into the room for kids falling off the bike and knocking out the teeth and having to make splints to hold the teeth back in. Or someone, there was a prison nearby, someone gets into a fight. So you might have to make a splint to hold their teeth together and so on. So that was probably the most exciting part, but the day-to-day was just dull. Really, yeah, and that's when I almost left the profession and I write about that in the book.
Yeah, what did you almost go and do?
Plumbing.
Plumbing, yeah.
Yep. Come on. Seriously, yeah, I applied to college and because the course was that popular, 'cause at the time, back in 2004, probably it was, plumbers were making good money. They're working good. Yeah. So the courses were full, so I didn't even get an interview. So that's when I went knocking on doors and thinking, I can't stay in this job, I can't stay in this role. It's either gonna, you know, I've got to get out because this is not what life should be for the rest of my life. And you know, the time I was, what, 2000? I was 29, 30 then.
You found the one job in dental where you weren't busy.
I know, right? I know.
Yeah, seriously, yeah. So yeah, so I went knocking on doors and that's when the next sort of Ave. started and that was the push into commercial world.
Yeah. So where'd you end up?
So I. Well, what is commercial world actually before that?
So yeah, we refer to it. So anything in hospitals is, you know, it's It's hospital work, but we talk about commercial labs being dental labs that are, you know, just dental labs, I guess, but we call them commercial labs for some reason. I don't know why we do.
Is it the difference of doing NHS work and non-NHS work?
Wow, that's a real bone of contention, because...
Okay. Wow.
You're self-esteem question.
Because... Labs are not paid by the NHS. They're not employed by the NHS. There are NHS dental practices and there are private practices. And quite often there are mixed, you know, there are mixed private and NHS.
Yeah.
But labs are not employed by the NHS in any way whatsoever. They don't get any of the NHS benefits such as, you know, the really good pensions that are there. They are just a service provider for usually cheap and quality work. You know, it's priced much lower. And it's something that I never wanted to get involved in. So when I started my private orthodontic lab, I just had one price list. this is my price, this is my quality, this is my turnaround times. And if you want it, you can come and get it. And it's a finite resource. It's not infinite. It's if you want it, you can have it. And I think at the time, I was charging really good money for twin blocks and study models and retainers and that kind of stuff. I was charging probably back in the day Some labs are charging less than it now.
Sure.
Yeah. So yeah. Did that answer your question? Commercial world? I think you did, didn't it?
Yeah, sort of. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of weird here in the States because we have, you know, private insurance, government insurance, and then no insurance.
Yeah.
It's kind of, we have 3 tiers, I guess.
I'm kind of finding a way a little bit with PDAC stuff. because we're trying to get a sleep appliance through PDAC, through a certain class. It's just, it's fun. But yes, I think our system here is far worse than yours. Your system is much, much better, I think, personally.
I don't know. I think we could have a whole other episode about debating which is worse.
No doubt.
Not which is better, but which is worse.
No, let's not do that.
No, of course not. So you ended up working at a commercial lab. What did you end up doing?
Okay, so this is where it kind of got quite interesting. So I started knocking on doors and then I just so happened to knock on this one door that opened and it was a chap who's an entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur called Matthew. And he said, look, I'm setting up a dental lab called Solutions for Snoring. And your name's come up. You used to do a lot of work in sleep apnea, right? Yeah, I did, yes. Well, your name's come forward and I'd quite like to chat to you about, you know, we've got no lab at the minute, we've got no clients, but we do have an appliance and we have an appliance. We've got the rights to sell this. It was an Australian device at the time. It was called MDSA. You may have seen it.
I have not.
The inventor was called Bob Bird. And he said, I'm quite keen to chat to you. So I went to see this guy, this guy, Matthew, very successful businessman in other industries completely. But he ran and sold one of the first real chain of dental labs. It was a chain called Benchmark. It was acquired by First Dental not long after, well, probably a few years after he exited, they folded, they went under. after that. But so we set up solutions for snoring and I was the co-founder with him. We had a marketing person. I became a shareholder in the business. And then we started to grow from there. We didn't have a single client. I brought in my private orthodontic works. I had a few clients doing twin blocks and retainers and that kind of stuff. And yeah, it went from there. 2005, we started a massive marketing plan to become the sleep apnea lab in the UK. Three, two or three years in. My background has always been in occlusal splints. So I really specialized in occlusal splints when I was working in hospitals, which is quite unusual for lab techs to do. So we developed We formed an occlusal splint side to the lab. And I know in the US it's a bit different. I almost ended up working in New York.
What?
It's a lab. Yeah. This is back when I was knocking on doors, a lab in Nanuet.
Yeah.
They offered me a job and just circumstances family wise and I got a divorce and stuff. Didn't work out. Just a little blip.
So I've had a blip. Oh yeah.
We do.
We've all had a blip.
We've had blips, yeah.
And we're better for it, right?
Yep, for sure.
Absolutely. Yeah, so we developed the lab and three years in, so 2008, my then business partner, well, Neil became my business partner. We bought Matthew out of the business in 2008 and we changed the name to S4S, which it still exists today as S4S.
And what does that stand for?
Well, it was solutions for snoring, but then we realized that we're doing a lot more than just snoring devices. So we were making closer splints, we were making retainers and bleaching trays and orthodontic work. So it was, we abbreviated it to S4S and then fast forward 21 years. I am the first co-founder to exit. I exited in November last year.
No. What?
You didn't answer. Did that become the number one snore device?
Yes, it did. So it did.
Oh, nice.
Yeah. We developed it further. We made it. We made some real good changes and we manufacture now because the MDSA completely is gone now. Bob sadly died a few years ago. So now we make. Yeah, sadly. But we make our own kind of version now, which is It's made in the UK, the parts. And yeah, it's become probably the best-selling mandible advancement splint there is, I think.
How many lives you've saved?
Yeah, marriages. Yeah, it's marriages.
Life slash marriages. But good job. Like that's amazing.
Absolutely. And I think we became, we must have become the kind of biggest independent dental labs. We're not owned by any corporate, we're not owned by any private equity or anything. It was still privately owned, still is. I'm just not an owner anymore.
I'm sure you got offers over the years, right?
Yeah, we did. We got offers. Yeah, we did. We did. And that kind of, you know, we had that horrible blip during COVID where everything just went crazy. And for me, that was like, wow, you know, I was, what was that? I'm 50 now, I'm 51 this year. I was like, this is 15 years. Could have just gone down the pan. 15 years of real hard work. You know, I remortgaged my house, I refinanced my mum's house to run the business. And yeah, it was like, they can't let this happen. So we kind of that's where I started thinking about, you know, really nailing down the exit strategy then.
So why did you decide? I mean, 51 is young these days.
Yeah, well, according to you, Elvis.
I'm not 51 yet.
Okay, okay, okay.
Yeah, so I think because I've always Throughout business, I've been involved in multiple different types of business and I do lots of different things. And certainly as the last few years of working in the lab, we got a business coach and we really systemized things and got to a point where, you know, this is famous, you know, I use it quite a lot, you know, working on the business rather than working in the business.
Yeah.
Yes. That's kind of how I did it. We freed ourselves up to work on the business and gave me some more flexibility to do more of the other things I wanted to do. I love writing, so I became the editor for the Dental Technician magazine in the UK.
Yeah.
And then write for Laboratory magazine now, which is probably the biggest lab Magu I have in the UK. I just love writing and I love hopefully trying to inspire other dental technicians. And I know you said in the, when you mentioned listening to the book, you think, oh God, this is depressing. Well, it's kind of telling the story.
We'll talk about that.
Here in a second.
Isn't it all depressing?
No, it's not.
No.
The big thing is I'm a big, a big believer in you kind of reap what you sow and positive mindset's a real big thing. And I write about that quite a lot in positive mindset, surround yourself with people that want to uplift you, don't bring you down. And it's surprising, you know, you enter a room when there's really inspiring people and you guys, you visit all the shows and so on. You feel it, you feel it, right? You know, you can walk into a room and you just feel the buzz, the energy. You really feel it. And it's not, you know, it's not wacky stuff. It really is. You feel the energy. you feel the uplifting spirit and you know, spending so many years in certainly in the hospitals in some of them where it's like you're a dental technician, keep your head down, just crack over it. Dentist is your boss. You know, you don't answer back to them. You do the work. And if you say jump, you say, oh, hi. I don't want to live my life like that. And they never did as a dental technician. And this is where the Again, my writing kind of does says that, I'm part of your team. I'm on board with you. I'm your clinical partner. I'm going to make your patients' lives and your patients' experience so much better if we work together. 100%. Yeah.
So how did you get into writing? I mean, you mentioned the magazines. Is that where it started?
Yeah, it turns out I've got quite a bit to say. Yeah. Sometimes I don't doubt that I sometimes perhaps rub people up the wrong way a little bit because I do think I'm not scared of putting my head above the parapet.
Yeah.
We have the General Dental Council here that kind of look after us and they're our regulatory authority. And I've had my battles with them. You know, we're losing technicians left, right and centre. Year on year, the numbers are declining. The regulation gets harder, yet illegal manufacturing is just allowed to happen. It's just brushed under the carpet. It's all fine. Dental lab, as long as you don't call yourself a dental technician, you can do whatever you like, really. So I've been the one that has put my head above the parapet and I've spoken out on things. So that's kind of how a lot of my writing started. But then I've done a lot more on business. I started an MBA a few years ago. In fact, just before COVID, and a masters of business. And it turned out that one of the tutors, I think, just kind of said, you're kind of, you're doing all right in business. So I'd only got halfway through the programme and I decided to pack it in. It got really tough as well. It got really like forensic accounting and stuff like that. It's not for me.
But the flashbacks to working at the bank?
Bean counting. Yeah, no, it's not. Yeah. So I really enjoyed the kind of business strategy, the business marketing side of it. That's great. Love that.
Yeah. So what? I mean, you started writing articles about business and dental labs.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So.
Which probably not a lot of people were doing.
Absolutely. I think you had Ashley Byrne on the show once, I think.
Hundred percent.
Yeah. So Ash and I. Yeah, he's a good guy. He's a great guy and great business as well. And I think, Ash and I, we write lots of business articles. So there's probably us two that do write more about business in dental labs than anyone else, I think.
Yeah.
But you share very good, you know, similar values. systemizing things, paying people right, educating people right, bringing them on as part of the team. They're not just employees, they're part of the team, they're part of the family. It's that real positive mindset.
So when did you decide to tell this story that you wrote?
Well, you know, again, because I've got banks and banks of articles that I write and I'm a very, very early riser. It's been bred into me, I think, from my childhood. My mum and dad were, they ran pubs and they just worked really hard.
Yeah.
So I was always an early riser. So, you know, I often wake up at 4:00 in the morning and what I do is I've got a big phone, like a big, it's almost a mini tablet. I sit and write some notes and I might write an article. I might write a piece that I'm thinking about or even write a few things and come back to it at some point. And more often than not, by 7:00 when everyone's waking up, I've written a full article. That's good. It's all good. That's my work. My work's done. I can do other stuff now throughout the day. So start doing that. And then when I decided to write a book, We've got a place overseas in Lanzarote, which is in the Canary Islands. It's a very small island, a beautiful place. And I'm thinking, do you know what? I've spent the last two days doom scrolling on Facebook and social media, and I've not been working, working, but I've just wasted 2 hours of a morning. Oh, yeah, for sure.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Yes, you do. I totally do.
Oh, my word. We spent so much money.
I have no idea.
It's terrible. So I thought, do you know what? I'm going to be really determined to write something a bit more for me, to do something for me. It might be a series of articles. It might be something else. And I sat having coffee with my wife. We have a coffee in the morning before the kids get up.
Of course you do, because you're normal.
We have to have two coffees in the morning. It's like a ritual there before anyone can speak to us.
I don't talk to anybody without a coffee. It's beautiful.
You can tell what episodes we record before. Oh, yeah.
I know.
Absolutely. Oh, well, we've gone to a point now where we've gone for a bean to cup machine. It grinds. You know, we're really spoiled now. We can't drink instant coffee anymore.
Oh, of course not.
God no. Jesus.
Yeah. So I've sat there having a coffee with my wife and amongst a million things that I've said to her, and she gets to a point now where I just get this kind of like eye roll. I don't get any, you know, it's not disappointment. It's not like anything else. It's just like, okay, Matt, yeah, cool. I'll run with it. I'll help you with, you know, whatever you need. So I said, yeah, I'm going to write a book. She looked at me, she gave me a proper eye roll this time. It was a, it was like, really? It really, I know I'm going to, I'm going to do it. I thought, do you know what? I've got my favorite number is 15 for some reason. I think I'm born on the 15th of October. So 15, I thought. My favorite books, I'm not a big reader, believe it or not. My favorite books, that's why I like reading articles. I like to read small books. So like Mel Robbins, 5 Second Rule. Simon Sinek, start with Y.
Oh, he's so good.
So all these short books, I'm not good with big books. So I thought I'm going to write a short book that I would like to read. Someone else might fancy reading it, perhaps. I don't know. And I'm going to write it about our profession. And I'm going to set myself 15 weeks to do it. So like 15 and I'm going to do it in.
Why 15?
Well, just number. Number 15. Yeah, it's like it works for me. Yeah. So yeah, don't.
Got to put a goal in there sometime. Because if you just say you're going to write a book, it could be 15 years.
Yeah. So, and I need, you know, I need deadlines and I'm very hyper focused when I've got an idea, I'm hyper focused, completely hyper focused. So I thought, right, I'm going to write a book and it's going to be we're doing 15 weeks and guess how many chapters it's got?
15.
15. It's actually probably got 17, but I don't know. I don't name 17. No, it's got 18 because it's got a four word and an introduction and then an afterward.
Those don't count.
Yeah, so they don't. It's got 15. So I thought I'll write one chapter every week. How difficult can that be? Because it's, you know, I write for the magazine and I write articles using a couple of hours. So My hyper-focused mind, I'd finished it in about 10, 10 weeks. Yeah. And then I thought, well, it can't be very good if I've written it out quick. So I kind of sat on it for probably a week. And I thought, I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it myself. So I read it myself. And I thought, that sucks. It's terrible. So I'm going to have to rewrite this. I went back in and restructured things a little bit and rewrote a few chapters. And I thought, you know what? It's very limiting if I write it just for dental technicians, because this is a bit of a book for anyone, like physiotherapists, for hygienists, for sound engineers. The guy who didn't do the sound engineer from when we did the audio book, he went, my word, he went, this is like it's written for me, but as a sound engineer, but.
It's whoever falls into the title.
Exactly, yeah. So the before you start kind of thing, I kind of lead that by saying this could be, you know, it's written from a dental technician's perspective, but. It can be for anyone, for anyone that feels that way, where you feel like you're not respected, you're not part of the team, you feel left out, you're pushed on price all the time. It doesn't need to be like that. That can change. That doesn't need to be the way. That's not our history. It might be the history, but it's not where we don't have to be there all the time. We don't have to stay there.
But I mean, writing the book, like, how did you ask yourself those questions that enabled you to answer them in the book?
That's a great question. Well, do you know what? There were a few things, I think, that I started to build from it, which were articles I'd already written. And some of it was on, one was called The Busy Fools.
Oh, I love that. Why'd you call them fools?
It's just a term, it's a term we use in the UK, which when someone, you know, you, kind of compete on price. You do your best to, yeah, I've won this client and you're working all your, you work your *** off. And when you look at it, what you've took away from it. You've been a busy fool.
There's nothing. So I'm a soramist, just so you know. So I'm at the bench all day, every day, and I love that. It's like, I kind of feel like * **** someday. It's ********.
Are you a busy fool, Barry?
Yeah, I mean, I resonate with that. That's why.
It doesn't necessarily mean you, because you head down at the bench. It doesn't necessarily mean that, because that's different. That's kind of like, we're working. We need all sorts of people in business, right? So again, one of the chapters in the book is, I need 10 of me. I don't know if you remember that chapter, Elvis. Yes. I walked into a meeting with our business advisor. Now, a business coach, sorry, we had a business coach. We were probably one of the only dental labs at the time to hire a business coach. We got some funding from the local council that said, hey, do you want a business coach for free? Yes, please. Yeah. So this guy, I was running around and I was late for the this meeting and I hate being late. I'm the one who turns up 25 minutes early, not annoyingly.
Not me. I'm on time, just saying. Right on time, not late.
So me and my wife are the same. We arrive at people's houses like an hour early when they're still cooking. So I was late for this meeting and I got flustered, phone calls, dentist complaining. staff issues, I've got lab work to do. And I come into this meeting, I'm so sorry, I just need another 10 of me. And he just laughed at this guy. And it wasn't a nasty laugh. It was like a, yeah, right kind of thing. And he said, by the time the meeting finished, you don't need 10 of you. You need to be able to give up something. You know, find out what's the easiest thing to give up first. And sometimes you just have to accept that whatever that, you know, it might not be quite your level. but it's acceptable and it's good enough. that just sometimes has to be, because if you want to start growing your business and if you want to, you want to get to a point where the business is not reliant upon you, you're going to have to start giving things up and you don't need 10 of you. Can you imagine what business would be like if there were 10 of you?
No.
It'd be horrendous.
We would go out of business. If there was 10 of me, I'd take over. Seriously.
Bob's asked me.
I like seriously, but okay.
So if there were 10 of me, we would have gone bankrupt in probably the first year because I'd have been buying all the new tech and I'd been...
You're my kindred spirit. Yeah, it's tough.
Absolutely.
So you mentioned earlier that I messaged you after I listened to the book that I found the beginning depressing. And that comes from you just explaining how we got to where we are.
Yes, exactly.
And what really hit me was is that there were a million little things that happened to get where our industry is today.
Yes.
I mean, you could say this company X did this or this lab did this, but it's not true. It's everybody just doing a million things to put us in this position where we're all fighting for price. And it's a struggle and we're all being busy fools. And it's kind of depressing. I'm not going to lie.
Yeah, I think that story needed to be told. I think.
It did. You set it up to swing the other way.
I mean, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think The, if you think about it, when dentists became dentists, they were barber surgeons, they weren't, they weren't highly skilled people, they weren't clever people, they were just doing stuff. And the way the industry split at the time, you know, we were the artisans, we were the creative ones, we were the jewelers, the metal workers, the real gifted craft people, craft people. Yeah, But then, like you say, a million little things slotting into place that becomes this, we start, grinding away at things and competing on price. And then, someone splinters off from one lab to another one and then they go, they just don't think about business. They don't think about what it costs to supply a crown. They just go, well, he's doing it for $20. I'll do it for 19. And that's kind of, that was the industry I grew up in back in the 90s. Where it was like that, technicians didn't let other lab technicians into their labs, that wasn't that's just wasn't done, whereas now we're so much more open, if you wanted to go and see Ashley Burns' lab. He'd go and show you around. He'd take you around. He'd show you everything to do.
We're almost more than just open. We're almost supportive. Yes, you are supportive. That's a whole other level than just, I'll let you come and look around. No, I'll help you if I need to, if I can.
Absolutely. Yeah. And like your, you know, your podcast, for instance, that's a great vehicle for it as well, where, you know, you speak to other people and sharing stories and sharing ideas.
It's the only reason the podcast can exist because people are willing to talk about it. If it was done in the 90s, nobody would come on.
Yeah, seriously, yeah. I've got, honestly, I remember being, I went to see a friend's lab back in the 90s and I remember getting there and literally being held at the door by the lab owner. Like, you're not coming in.
Oh yeah.
What?
I'm coming in and you're getting out of my way, mother, and I don't care what the hell you have to say about it.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, sorry about that.
I did have I did have a pleasure of kicking him out of our lab once when?
I can tell you did by this Tony. so that was then and this is now. definitely everybody opens their doors and we're all sharing, but it doesn't necessarily mean that like we're better. I sometimes worry about us being better.
Do you think it's a funny, I'll turn the question around to you guys. It's a funny time, right? And I guess it's the same in the US as it is in the UK. We've got this massive influx of AI that's just kind of happened in the last 18 months, which is just incredible. The influx of digital dentistry now, 3D printers and the materials are just incredible. We're at a real kind of turning point, I think. in the profession. And I don't mean it, I don't think it's the end of labs. No, but we're changing, right? And I think there's a great opportunity for the labs that are agile and move with it. And I think the ones that have gone, I'm not going to do digital just now because I've only got five years left. they're toast already.
There's no way. I don't know how you couldn't.
Yeah, let's be honest. The book does kind of move towards a positive light, right? I mean, you do have some very positive things to say about the direction we're heading and what people can do to improve on everything.
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think, you know, it starts with, you know, it starts with Being that, being known for something, right? And not just being that dental lab because you're the cheapest or you're in proximity, you're the closest. It's being known for something, whether that's the dentist knows they can pick a phone call up from you or you can pop into the practice to help discuss an implant case that's really difficult. It's kind of be that. be first in front of their mind when they think they are got this real difficult case today. I'm going to phone Jim. He's great. You know, he's coming. Let's have him. Let's get him in the surgeries. We've got to have him here doing this work. It's been that that's kind of like where we got to start. And then it moves on from that, you know, things like price and time, you know, we all know every day. I bet you've had it already today. you get the you know get someone calling from practice well we need this tomorrow really and uh and you know well we can't pay that price for that no you know we've got to hold the line on that one.
Yeah I had a call from an office today they wanted something back tomorrow I was like really?
Yeah you know you can you you can capitalize on that somewhat I mean in terms of when we when we open up our London based lab, the main lab is in Sheffield. And then we opened up the london-based lab for one main reason, the biggest, I said that the clients that were kind of the ones that we had to jump through hoops for were generally the ones down in the southeast near in London, very London centric, you know, everything evolves around around London. And the clients are often often some of them flying from overseas to get treatment. So when they want their retainer, they want it the afternoon. So we set up a service where you could have that. You can send it, you can send it scan by 11 o'clock. We can send a courier around by 5 o'clock and you'll have the retainers there. It will be first class service, but you're going to pay for that.
Yeah, you have to charge a lot.
You pay a premium for that and that's good revenue and you're not busy fools then, you're doing it on your terms.
Yeah. A lot of people take advantage of that.
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, think about the world we live in with Amazon Prime where?
Oh yeah.
When I've made a buying decision because I'm a bit like that, I want it tomorrow. I want it now actually. But if I can get it tomorrow, that'll do. And I think patients are getting more like that. You know, they've made a decision to have their veneers done or they want tooth whitening doing. They want to start straight away. they've committed, they've got the money there, they want to do it. So they want it now. So if they can start treatment that afternoon or tomorrow, great. There's going to be an Amazon Prime charge for that.
Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody could open up any business without offering Amazon-like delivery. I mean, you just can't. I mean, you can't compete. I mean, it's part of the norm in our culture now.
It is, it's cultural now, it really is. And that's, you know, that's come, what, the last two years probably.
Yeah, it really has. So what's next for you, Matt? Are you going to write another book? Part 2, follow up? What's the plan? Keep with the magazine.
I think I've probably got another book in me, but not just yet.
I get you.
How do you know you want to write a book? Like that's got to be a lot of work.
You got to sit down with your wife and go with coffee.
You're like, I'm going to write this and I'm going to write that. Like, how do you even know you want to write?
I write lots. I think I just do. It's something I do regularly. And it's not.
You don't know, or do you write?
I write, I tend to write small articles. I tend to write, you know, little type, essay type articles that if I've got an idea, I put it on paper. Sometimes I never even use them. You know, I've got, I've got files on my desk, desktop that on PC that stuff I've never written. I've never published. It's just something's written, you know, it's an 800 word piece. And if maybe something comes up, but what I tend to do is I forget I've written it.
And you're like, ****.
Yeah.
Then we go back a bit like, who wrote this? is good. Oh, wait, it's me.
Yeah, I did one a couple of weeks ago. And the reason I wrote it, we were, so I'm involved in a business angels investment Group, it's kind of a meeting there and we got talking and sat around this table and how the most of the people in there are real techie AI coding guys who, they've existed, but they've done exceptionally well with it and we sat there and. And we got talking about Blockbusters. Do you had Blockbusters in the US? I think you probably did the DVD rental places.
Yeah.
And I thought, do you know what? That's going to make a great article. So I wrote it down on my phone. So the next morning I wrote an article, said, don't be Blockbusters. Don't be Love Film either. You want to be Netflix. Wow. So I framed the whole article around that about how And it was all about where we are now with dental technology. So the reason I pulled it together was I won't mention names, but it's a very large lab that are doing everything digital, giving away scanners and winning clients by you set up a subscription type thing. And they're changing the face of the dental lab market for sure. And you know, we can't ignore them. And I talked about Blockbusters, you know, that they would, they We'd think we'd call it Blockbusters. We're going to pop to Blockbusters to hire a DVD. And then when LoveFilm came in, they were really agile. They did the right things. And I don't know if you knew, but they, as well as posting out DVDs and things, it was quite a big European company. They started an online streaming program. So they were kind of pre Netflix.
Yeah, wow.
But then Netflix bought them out and Netflix is now what we see, what it is now. So I've built the article around that. Yeah. So that's kind of, yeah, very random. I find things sometimes. I thought that would make a great article. I'm going to pull that together. So I made a note and then the next morning I wrote, I wrote something.
And is it going to be published? Has it been published?
Yeah, it's been published. It's on LinkedIn and it's on It's on dentistry.co.uk. It's on their website. So yeah, if you search my name, search Blockbuster, you'll find it.
Nice. I'm going to check it out. Do you have an audio version where you read it?
I don't, but.
I don't want to say I'm lazy, but.
It's only a small one, Elvis. It's only probably a two or three minute read. It's not one.
I still need you to read it.
I do too, actually.
So you asked me what's next. So I'm involved in a few other bits and bobs of business wise. I'm involved in a dental nurse recruitment business. That's more of a, I'm more of a shareholder now. You know, the business is working really well and doing really well. But I'm kind of loving my, you know, time with the kids and we travel when we can. I love my racing. I started became a racing car driver three years ago.
Oh, geez. Wow.
So race very badly, by the way.
No, that's for good. Just saying.
No, but it's great fun.
You can't do anything that you love unless you're bad at it at first.
Well, exactly. Yeah, you've got to put the hours in. Another great book. What's the Matthew Sired one? where he talks about 10,000 hours. You've got to do something for 10,000 hours before you become proficient at it. I think that's very, very true of dental technicians, right?
Very true.
Yeah, I won't be quiet. I won't be, I'm not retiring and I'm not hanging up my boots just yet.
I think we're going to hear a lot more from you. I think you're going to start popping up more in the US. I mean, this book you wrote, The Invisible Profession, anybody in our industry needs to read it or listen to it. And like we mentioned, it's audible and you read it yourself. It's a great story. And even though there's a lot of NHS talk in it and a lot of UK you replace a few words, NHS with just dental insurance. And it's the same story over here. There's not a lot of books out there about what we do. And it's kind of cool to hear that story, the perspective and the hope for the future. And I love it, man. And, you know, there'll be a link on this episode show notes for sure for people to get it on Amazon because, you know, that's how we need it right away. It's not. We go right back to Amazon, but whatever.
We should get some. I'm advertising for Amazon. That's give him one.
Thank you for writing it. Thank you for doing it, man.
No, thank you for saying that as well. And that's been, I don't think it's gonna make me a millionaire by any stretch, but you know, I've had two people so far review it and both have said, one of them was a guy called Giles and he said it was like the words were just, you were bouncing through the words in my brain. It's like, oh my word, this is where I've been.
We've all seen it. We've all lived it. It's good to read it.
A lady called Sue wrote the second one and said, not only have I think it's a great book, it's a nice short read. The audible is only like an hour and 20 long. She said, I've made changes already in my business, in my dental lab, which is like, boom, that's amazing. You know, if I don't sell another one, that's great for me. Love that.
Brilliant.
Absolutely love that. Yeah.
I love it, man. Well, Matt, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on to tell your story. And again, sharing this book with me that I hope everybody gets a chance to read or listen to. It's good stuff.
Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Bob's, I will send you a, I'll send you, I'll send you guys everything.
He's like in the know.
I'll send you an Audible link, but I'll also send you guys a hard copy if you send me your details. I'll send you a hard copy as well.
Are you going to sign it?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It might be. It might be worth all of two bucks after that.
Hey, man. I'll take it. Thank.
You. So good.
Well, thanks again, Matt. We appreciate it.
I appreciate it. I do have to say, guys, I don't know when this will go live, but good luck tonight. Well, the US are playing soccer.
I know.
They're playing at 1:00 AM our time. I'm not going to watch it, I'm afraid, but I wish you all the luck in the world. I was watching it. I was like watching England last night. So I've done it. I've done one all nighter already. I've not slept for about 30 odd hours.
Okay, go USA. Thank you. Go USA.
Go USA. Absolutely. Well, thank you, guys.
I appreciate it, sir. Yep, have a good one.
You too. All the best.
Bye.
Bye-bye.
A huge thanks to Matt for coming on the podcast to talk about your journey up to writing the book, The Invisible Profession. And we kind of are. I really appreciated your term busy fools because so many of us in our labs are doing extra unnecessary steps every day and really not focused on what matters. So head over to Amazon, you guys, pick up The Invisible Profession, or get the audio version read by Matt himself. And that's pretty awesome. It's a story shared by everyone in this industry, and we can all make it better together. Stronger together. Let's do it.
Stronger together. Love it. All right, everybody, that's all we got for you.
And of course, we'll talk to you next week. Have a good week, y'all. Bye. See ya.
The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.
It doesn't work, babe.