What if zirconia could look even more like natural teeth?
Well, Elvis, according to the. Dr. Ed McLaren, and I quote, of all the zirconias that he's tested, the optical properties of Ivocar's Emax zirconia are the closest to natural teeth. And you know what? I've seen it. I believe it. It's an unbelievable material.
Interesting. Well, I kind of want to discover what's redefining the possibilities with this IPS Emax zirconia.
All right, everybody, if you want to as well, join Doctor Ed McLaren for Zirconia Reimagined. It's an informative webinar exploring the latest advancements, clinical insights, and. practical applications of zirconia in modern dentistry.
That sounds absolutely amazing. October 5th at 7 p.m. Register today at vivalearning.com. That's viva, V-I-V-A learning.com.
Be there, guys. This material is amazing.
So Barb, an overdue congratulations are in order.
Oh my God. What did I do now, Elvis?
Didn't you all recently announce the Simply Arch studio?
Yes, we did.
That's awesome. You know that's right up my alley there.
Of course I do, yeah.
And just for anyone who hasn't seen the announcement, what is this Simply Arch thing?
All right, so Simply Arch is our dedicated full arch lab. So it's high quality, full arch cases a big part of what we do and we wanted a team and a dedicated workflow and a production environment built specifically around them.
So basically just no distractions.
Exactly. Just a bunch of full arch nerds doing full arch things.
Oh God, a bunch of nerds sounds terrifying.
It's never terrifying of us.
And does a new studio also mean new toys?
Yes. And of course we recently brought in a mill as part of the project.
Hell yeah, nice.
Yeah, and then of course came the cam decision.
Here we go, the old cam decision.
You know, Elvis, we tested a couple options and of course we landed on Hyperdent.
Like Hyperdent, just as easy as that, As easy as that, pretty much.
The quality off the machine was excellent. So that means also no hand finishing and the milling times were excellent also.
You're right. That does make the decision quite easy.
But honestly, what really stood out to us was the testing and implementation process.
How so?
You could immediately tell these guys live in a world of high, complex milling challenges.
That's got to build a lot of confidence.
You know what? It really did, and it really does. They weren't just showing us how the software works. They were advising us on the best way to build an entire workflow for our lab. You could tell they've done it a hundred times, guys.
That's a whole new different level of expertise. Well, congratulations on the new studio, Barb.
Thank you. Hats off to my dad for the studio. So it means a lot to me.
Aw. Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info at voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome to episode 440 of Voices from the Bench. My name is Elvis.
My name's Barbara.
What's up, Barb? Every time I try to reach out to you, seem to be going to the movies. Are you like a cinemaphile? Is that what it's called? Where people are like really in the movies.
We went to see Spider-Man. And then yesterday I went to see Tony, which was about Anthony Bourdain, which I thought it was a great flick, man. Like I really enjoyed it. So yeah, I do. I like movies. I don't go every weekend.
Sure.
But it's been raining a lot, so I'm like, F it, let's go to the movies.
Yeah, what else are you going to do? Do you get into the big IMAX or the special viewing 3D, any of that? Or is it just a?
No, it's like 30 bucks now. I just go to whatever.
It's ridiculous. We actually still have a drive-in here in Indianapolis. And last weekend, we did a double feature where you just pay, it's like 12 bucks a person, but watch two movies from your car.
That's what I'm talking about. $12 and I'm a happy girl. $12 make you holla. Just kidding, Joe.
I don't know what, who's hollering what, but alrighty people. I got a few more to donate for my Race for the Future run.
I know, I'm so proud of you.
Yeah, I'm doing this on September 27th in Valley View, Texas and we're raising money for the Foundation for Dental Laboratory Technology.
I'm at 1000 bucks. Just saying.
You're at 1000 bucks.
Yep.
Well, you know, when you do it yourself.
I'm just not all over the internet like you are. I don't know how you do that, but maybe you want to walk me through it so I get some more money and we can do it.
No, I don't. No competition. But I'm having to like do a true sacrifice, man. I'm giving up a whole weekend.
Right.
I'm waking up early on a Saturday to fly to Texas and I'm coming home Sunday night. Whole weekend's gonna be gone, but I do it because I care.
Yep.
And the least you could all do is donate a little bit. So as we mentioned, look for my fundraiser on Facebook or head over to dentallabfoundation.org and donate today.
Have you discussed that your name's changed and people might want to look for the new Elvis?
Okay, I mean, I went back to my maiden name of Devrick.
I love it.
I'm no longer a doll.
You're still ED though, for those of you that I am still, same initials.
I think we mentioned last time, handkerchiefs do not have to change.
Yeah, correct.
But you look for an Elvis in a dental group. And if there's any other other than me, I mean, Phil, I mean, we're in trouble. Yeah. But please donate today.
Well, good for you. I see you're doing well. Congratulations.
Not as good as you, apparently.
Apparently.
This week, we talked to the company behind the printed flexible resins that's really getting everyone's attention. Veronica Peron comes on to talk about a 70-year-old company called Detex. that oddly enough, like last week's episode, has this weird hearing aid connection. I don't know where they all came from.
I love it. Yeah.
And how she's getting D-Tax into labs here in America. But what good is a conversation about material without someone that uses it every day? And that's why Brandon Smith also joins the conversation. We talk about the workflow for flexible partials, digital dentures, design, nesting, post-processing, bonding, finishing, printer validation, and what makes D-Tax flexible resin different from the traditional materials many labs are used to. We cover a lot. So join us as we chat with Brandon Smith and Veronica Peron. Voices from the bench. The Interview. So we have the extreme pleasure today to talk about really a printed resin that's kind of making waves in the industry. And I know it's come up a few times on the podcast. It's D-Tax. And I had the pleasure of meeting Veronica Peroni. Am I saying that right?
That's correct, sir. It's Italian, so whatever.
I have to roll the Rs. I love it.
Yes, sir.
I met her. Where did we meet? Was it at Visions, I think, the first time?
The first time, I guess, yes. And then I think we met at another industry when I saw you dressed up as Elvis, like the singer. I actually thought that it was made-up, that your name was made-up. But then apparently, no, it was not. So if your real name, it was really great.
No, I just lean into it. that's awesome. But also joining her is someone that I've actually known for a long time, not too far away in Ohio, but a member of a triathlon team we did one year, Brandon Smith. How are you, sir? Good, How are you doing? Doing fantastic. So what we'd like to do on this podcast is kind of find out how everybody got into the industry and where we ended up today. Veronica, love to hear your story. Tell me how you found out about teeth.
Oh, yeah. Oh, it was like more than 14 years ago, one for. So I've been with DTEX, yeah, since 2012. I started. Oh, really? Yes, yes. I started as expert manager and progressed over time to the current position. And yeah, fast forward 15 years later, I'm still in the same company and currently no longer in Germany, but here in the States.
Oh, you are in the States?
I am in the States.
I thought I was compensating for a time difference that was major, but I guess it wasn't too bad.
No, I actually relocated to California last year. Oh, nice. exactly last year, to support our expansion strategy here in the US market at our newly established US entity, Detex Materials Inc. So yeah, I'm on a mission here to drive further growth and to expand Detex market presence in the USA.
Where were you before? In Germany, right?
Yeah, in Germany, exactly at the same location where Detex is located. It's in Etlingen. Germany, it's in the beautiful Black Forest. It's around one hour from Stuttgart or also not too far away from Frankfurt, maybe 1 1/2 hours.
Okay, yeah.
It's close to the France border, like 20 minutes. You can go there for coffee and croissant. Yeah, it's a nice place and not too far from Switzerland. So It's a great place to work and live.
And now you live in one state that's probably bigger than all of those put together. I mean.
I mean, yeah, I mean, California is huge. I mean, the 4th biggest industry in the world currently, according to the latest data. So yeah, pretty much excited to be here on the US soil and to do different activities with with all these industry partners and distributors, friends from the industry. And yeah, it's just great to be closer to the customers, to the market.
Of course, yeah.
And then remotely from Germany, I mean, you imagine?
Yeah, I can only imagine the time difference. But how did you find out about Detex? What were you doing before? How did you get into it?
Actually, it was my second job after I graduated university. Like my first job was in telecommunication. It has nothing to do with dental. And then I just realized, yeah, I cannot do it for the rest of my life. Telecommunication is nothing. And then I just saw the job offering and was like, very international and this is what I wanted to do, to be able to connect with different countries, to experience the world. And it was dental, it was like by accident, it was dental. And I thought, okay, medical sector is something which is always gonna be there, and it's very important and was kind of very interesting. And I'm glad that I did this decision back then. And I'm very happy to experience all of these developments in the dental field. So yeah, this explains why I'm still in the industry and still with the same company since nearly 15 years. Yeah. So yeah.
I love hearing how people get into dental thinking they're in the medical field and then they find out how far off it is from the medical field and how different we are and how unique we are. That's great.
I agree. I agree.
Yeah, so Brandon, I know I've known you for a while and I know you've had a career that's spanned a lot of great places. I mean, with Triad and the good people at the Martins and Whitmix. So give me your story. How did you first get into the industry?
Yeah, so I've actually kind of been in the industry on and off for, God, a couple of decades now. My mom is a dental technician.
Oh, okay.
She's a ceramist. She's been probably in dental for 40 plus years. She actually worked for dental technician by the name of Dan Young. He was a NBC examiner and really well known for removables.
Yeah, that name's familiar.
Yeah, so she worked for him. She was his laboratory manager and his head ceramist. And when I was in high school, I would kind of work for them on and off doing deliveries and office work and stuff like that. And then Around, I think it was like 2008, I went to work for them as a driver again. I was just out of college, didn't really know what I wanted to do. So I went to work for them for about six months and then they decided to purchase another lab in the area and merge those labs together and my mom became his partner. So they brought me on full time and I started in the CAD department there and kind of went from there. I worked for them for seven, eight years. And then I went to Triad out in North Carolina and worked for them for three years.
What made that move? You just wanted somewhere different or because the Martins are so amazing?
Actually, I didn't know them.
Oh, really? What a great lab to end up at.
Yeah. It was kind of interesting story. So I was looking for a little bit more to kind of grow. And so I started, you know, looking at ads in the LMT magazine and I found this lab that was in Winston-Salem.
Yeah.
And went out there, did a working interview. They hired me. I worked for them for like a week and a half and then they let me go. Oh, so what the. It was kind of I scrambled around, printed out a bunch of resumes and, kind of put the feet to the pavement and just went from lab to lab out there and just kind of stumbled into triad, brought my resume and Martha wanted to talk to me immediately.
So awesome.
Had a meeting with her. And then that was on like a Wednesday, I think it was a Tuesday or Wednesday. And They had me come in for a working interview. I think it was on a Friday. And then by the middle of the next week, they hired me on full time and I worked for them for a good three years, helped them build their cab department to what it is now.
Were you there when they got that huge miller, the milling machine? They had one that used to take like 100 pucks or something.
No, that was right after I left.
Okay, good.
I heard. Yeah, we were juggling a couple different mills and had a couple 3D printers and a couple designers and scanning stations and stuff like that. But when I started there, they had a designer and a scanning station and they were sending all of their zirconia up to Wheeland out of Michigan.
Oh, interesting.
So I helped them pick out some mills and start developing out their CAD department. It's turned into a pretty big operation now.
Yeah, how did you learn to do all that? I mean, how did you know what mills to get and all that?
I'm the kind of person that when I start in a role, spend a lot of my free time researching things and looking at different things. So when they told me that they were interested in buying a mill, I just started researching things online and looking at what other people were saying about different mills and brought all my research back to Matt and then Matt made the decision that he did and he went with Ivoclar Mills at the time. They were actually private labeled VHF mills.
Yep, that's awesome. So what'd you do after Triad?
After I left Triad, I went to work for Whitmix.
That's where I think the industry got to know you.
Yeah, I did some webinars and stuff for them. I was one of their technical support and trainers.
For 3Shape, right?
Well, that was, I actually left Whitmix to go to 3Shape.
You were doing it for Whitmix, but you were doing 3Shape. Yeah, because I think, I mean, I know my first lab, we got everything from Whitmix. I think a lot of labs did back in the day when they were kind of leaders in that. And I'm sure half of this industry called you to complain about something and fix this or this isn't working or.
Yeah, Whitmix was pretty solid back then because the guys that we had on that team, one of them is now the manager for Asiga Americas. And then we also had another guy who went to Hyperdent. So we had the milling, we had the printing, and I was the CAD guy. So I knew 3Shape like the back of my hand. So and then I obviously I left there to go work for 3Shape.
So how did that come about? Did you want to go work for 3Shape or did they like, look at him. He knows what he's talking about.
Well, 3Shape was always like, I guess I want to say my dream job. I always wanted to work for them.
I can only imagine.
I just so happened to pump to stumble across a posting that they had on LinkedIn for trainers. And I got to thinking about it. I was like, well, I mean, this is probably my opportunity.
Yeah, for sure.
So I jumped on it, did some interviews, and they ended up hiring me.
That's awesome. And what'd you do there? Just more training.
I did a lot of different jobs there. I started off as a trainer and then it was kind of funny because my first three months there, the team that I joined, they, half of them got let go within my first three months.
Oh geez.
It was really, it was kind of an interesting time. There was like 13 people on my team and then There was a huge layoff that happened, I think it was September of that year, and they knocked our team down to like 7 people.
Yikes.
So it was really scary.
Yeah, there wasn't less calls coming in or stuff. I mean.
No, the department, I guess, was spending too much money or something like that.
Corporate decisions, I get it, I guess.
Yeah, and they cut us down, but then they didn't cancel any of the trainings. So from September until January of the following year, I would travel out at the beginning of the week, go to one customer's location, and then from there I would fly to a different customer's location.
Oh, wow.
So I would be gone. I think I was gone literally every week from the end of September all the way till like the middle of January.
And this was all in the States or were you other places too?
It was all over the States and Canada.
Wow. I bet you went to a ton of labs though.
Oh yeah. Doctor's offices, labs. It was crazy. I remember one week I was gone. I flew and I think it was December. So I flew from Ohio down to Florida, did a training there for two days. And then on Wednesday, I flew all the way from Florida up to Fairbanks, Alaska.
Oh, no kidding. Wow.
And did another two day training. So I went from like 70 degree weather to like negative 20 degree weather.
Oh, wow. How do you even pack for that? I mean.
It was a crazy trip. That was probably one of the weirdest ones I did.
That's crazy. So you were with Three Shape for a while, right? I mean, a couple of years.
Yeah, about four years.
Okay. And then where did you end up?
After I left Three Shape, I started my own company.
Oh, nice.
Doing consulting and training and design work and stuff like that. And I still have it today. I started that back in 2022.
What made you want to go out on your own? Just control your own destiny schedule kind of thing.
Yeah, I wanted the ability to say no. Yeah, when you.
Florida Fairbanks in the same week? Yeah, no.
Yeah, there were some different, some characters. Let's say I went to train when I worked for Whitmix and 3Shape and I wanted the ability to tell some people no, and I wanted to be able to train on what I wanted to train on instead of being kind of handcuffed to validated workflows and stuff like that.
Yeah, so that's what you're doing now.
I do a lot of that now. I'm also in the lab a couple days a week. I'm supposed to be in there one day a week, but a lot of times, they need additional help. So I'll go in there and help them out. And there I do whatever's needed. This week I was in there building porcelain and staining blazing crowns. There's times I'll go in there and I'll do design work. It's just whatever their needs are.
Do you get to pick the day or?
The guaranteed day is always Mondays, but sometimes they'll need me to come in if somebody's sick, which happened this week.
Oh, I see.
They had two ceramists out this week. One was having had surgery and she'll be out through the end of next week. And then the other, which was my mom, she was sick. So.
Oh, so this is back at the family lab?
Yeah, We're there. The lab is here in Dayton, so I help them out when they need it.
I think every lab could use a Brandon where they just, as needed, I can call you and just show up and be good.
Yeah.
So before we get too far, I mean, let's plug your deal. How do people find you if they want training or they want some design work?
So I have a website. It's brandonsdesignconsulting.com.
Perfect.
You can get on there and you can schedule meetings with me or schedule training and stuff like that. I do virtual trainings. I'll do in-person trainings. I do design work. I'll do some light technical support.
Oh, nice.
So it was definitely the, I think the main reason I started it was because I wanted to be able to train on full workflows instead of just, hey, here's how you design A denture or here's how you design A crown.
Sure. And every time you buy software, the training is always, you know, everybody always needs more. Let's just say that.
Yeah.
Okay, Veronica, we did not forget about you. Sorry.
I know. I'm listening. I'm listening carefully. Yeah. I love to listen to stories from Brandon. So I think we met a couple of years ago and this is exactly what I find fascinating about Brandon's knowledge and design. You know, and we started I think Brandon was one of the first ones to test our latest innovations like the denture flags and also the full denture solution, the splint master and stuff. And then we did a couple of hands-on courses together with our technology partners. And there I like saw Brandon in action, right? So he talked for four hours straight about the design of a flexible partial. And I was like, wow, there are so many things that, yeah, you have to learn. I mean, education is so important and this is what Brandon offered to the community and I find it extremely helpful.
Well, how was the connection made? I mean, Veronica, did you find out about Brandon and send them samples or how did this happen?
I think it was through one of our technology partners. And in this case, it was Asiga. Brendan put it up on Asiga. And then I think we came into contact through Corey, I guess. And then, yeah, I just sent some samples and Brendan tried it and liked it and then we decided to do some things together. I think we did also some digital webinars and as I said some hands-on courses and some seminars for other distributors. So a lot of things actually.
So I mean, honestly, the only thing I hear about with Detex is the flexible resin, because it's like so rare in our industry. I mean, there's a lot of denture resin. But is that what started your interest, Brandon, was getting your hands on the flexible?
Yeah, I think that's what started it. And you know, I also got my hands about the same time on their split master resins. And Part of the reason that I like the resins is so we were big users of Lucitone for a real long time. And the issue that we had with that resin is that it's the only thing you can do with it. You can't like take the teeth and make crowns with it because it's not validated for that.
Oh, interesting. Yeah.
So with the D-Tax resin, we got the flexibility of having one tooth resin and I could use it for denture teeth, I could use it for flexible denture teeth, or I could use it for crown and bridge. Like a temp? Yeah, Technically it's validated as a final restoration, but I would want to see a little bit long-term study on it.
Yeah, absolutely. If I may add something, it's indeed one in all all in one, sorry, all in one product. It's certified indeed for a variety of applications, not only like denture teeth and permanent crowns, but also long-term temporary bridges and veneers, veneers, inlays, onlays. So all indications are certified with our freeprint crown material. So it's kind of a very versatile product. And I'd love to hear that Brandon sees these options out of one product, let's say.
Yeah. So the material, I mean, there's obviously different shades, right? But you can use that same shade for denture teeth, crown and bridge, veneers. That's amazing because I mean I'm getting sick of having different trays for everything.
That's correct.
It makes a huge difference. Talk about detax. What did it start with? What was the first dental resin to come out? Was it traditional model?
Oh maybe when we start talking about detax because some folks still don't know about the company. So we are not start up, right? So we are, the company has been around for 70 plus years, right?
Did you say 70?
70, 70. Yeah, it's, yeah.
Printers haven't been around for 70 years.
I know, We started with, yeah, the development of silicons actually back then.
Oh, interesting.
Yes, We're a mid-sized company with 125 people. And yeah, we're an independent manufacturer and fully specialized in the development of biocompatible materials, especially silicones and 3D resins. And we're also big in the audiology, which I think a lot of people don't know. So we have pretty much the same portion of our businesses in the audiology. And this is where we started developing 3D resins for the first time back then for the big wiper machines was an SLA technology. And yeah, we took this knowledge and developed actually not model materials, but already medical devices. And it was our first generation splint material. I think it was 2013 or 2015 IDS, we received even an innovation prize at the IDS, for the first ever, let's say, certified medical devices class 2 for 3D resins. So we were, as you see, like pioneers in developing of medical devices in this-.
But it started with hearing aids.
Yes, That's fascinating. Yeah, they were really advanced and they have been printing for much longer than the dental industry. So, and yeah, this knowledge helped us, to transfer it to the dental fields. And therefore we were in Europe, especially one of the first companies to register medical devices. And now it's become even more complicated in Europe due to the new medical device regulation, which makes it really, really tough for the manufacturers to register and launch new products. But we received the MDR certification as one of the first companies in 2020. And So we are quite proud of these achievements. And this allowed us to be ahead of the competition to launch new products. And also in the States, I think we were the second manufacturer of flexible partials within FDA clearance. It was last year in October. And yeah, we already started like promoting the product at the Lab Day West of last year, so already teasing, working with some KOLs and doing some webinars, like already talking about the product and what it will bring to the industry. And then after we received FDA certification, so the demand was already there, so people knew, okay, Finally, the product has arrived and this gave us a big boost, right? Like a massive push for our company. And so we are pretty happy to have made this time to market and to hit the market in the right timing. So it's very important for new products to be one of the first.
I think the industry was asking for flexible, printed flexible partials before dentures. I mean, that's like what we all wanted for the longest time because everyone hates doing flexibles. They're hard to do. They're technique sensitive. But Brandon, you probably know this. Doesn't 3Shape also design hearing aids? Didn't I hear that sometime that?
Yeah.
There's a whole division of that for, I mean.
Yeah, that's actually how Three Shapes started. So back in 2000, they started in audiology, and then it wasn't until 2005 that they released the first iteration of Dental System.
That's so crazy to me.
You see? Yeah.
It all starts in the year.
It all starts out there. Such a small sector, but still so important.
I get. I mean, we wouldn't be here today probably without it. So let's talk about the flexible since that's, I'm sure, a majority of what people want to hear about. What happens? Why is it different? I heard that there's a lot of post-processing that goes into it. So just tell me about the whole process of doing your flexibles.
Do you want me to?
Yeah, Brendan, maybe go ahead.
Yeah, we want to hear by someone that actually works in a lab.
So We've been using their flexible material now since I would say October of last year, around there. And the thing that I like about it is one of the biggest issues with the flexibles was the processing and the issues with the teeth popping out.
Yeah.
So this material is nice because it doesn't have that issue. The chemistry between the tooth resin and the flexible base resin are so similar that they actually get a chemical bond. So you don't need diatorics in there anymore. You don't have to worry about a single tooth popping out. But the other nice thing about it too is it handles similar to a hybrid between like a ceramic and a like a PMMA. So I can take some light curable stains and I can characterize it if I want. As far as the post process goes on, it's super fast. You do a couple alcohol baths. I do mine for two, three minute alcohol baths, dry it real good. And then I put it in an auto flash and I do 2000 flashes each side and it's done. So I thought they had to be like a salt baker. So you're thinking of carbons.
Yeah, I was thinking of carbon. Yeah.
I thought it was all of them. Yeah, carbon does like a 24 hour salt bath.
Yeah.
This doesn't require it. So I can essentially get a scan in the morning design it, print it, prints in like 30 minutes, the base and the teeth. Do the alcohol baths, bond the teeth in, put it in the cure box and I use pumice and polish on it so I can go over pumice and polish it. I can have those out if I get one at like, let's say 8 o'clock in the morning, by 1 o'clock it's ready to go out the door.
That's insane. Is it as flexible as the materials we've been using? Is it just as or?
It's pretty flexible. I mean, it's hard to compare it. every flexible, traditional flexible material out there is different. So like Valplast is super flexible. The reason it's so flexible is because it's a nylon. It's not a like a resin or, you know, a traditional flexible. So like then you have like your Duraflex, which is like super rigid and it's not super flexible at all. This material is not quite as flexible as Valplast, but it's really close.
Yeah.
And the thickness of it, I designed mine at 2 millimeters and I think we've had maybe one break and it was more of a biting force issue on a tooth that probably shouldn't have been, you know, had that much load on it. But, you know, other than that, these things are we're doing probably maybe a dozen a month now. Oh yeah.
Wow.
And they're, I mean, they've been great.
Yeah. I don't even know what the material was, but one time a rep came into the lab I'm at and they said, hey, with this new printed, I know it wasn't D-Tex. And I took the thing off the model and I just, you do what everyone does with every flexible is they squeeze it together and the thing just snapped in two right in front. I mean, yeah. I was like, what are you doing? Sorry, but.
It happens. I always say it happens a lot also at the exhibitions that people like love to squeeze it heel to heel, but it's not designed to be squeezed heel to heel. And as Brandon said, it's not a nylon material. So therefore there is enough flexibility, but at the same time a good stability for good retention. So it's like a compromise, which we've found. And I think it's a great balance of characteristics.
Yeah. And the way that the material itself handles with the post-process and curing, it doesn't shrink. So I can even do like claspless flippers with it and I can get all the retention from the lingual undercuts of the teeth and it'll snap right in and it fits great. I've done so many of those.
Well, that's amazing. I mean, are you doing those off of scans or off of models?
Both. We've done both.
So intraoral scans, you're able to get that much of a retention.
Yeah.
Now, does 3Shape have a flexible partial, what do they call a module? Or what do you use? Just partial.
So you do it through the denture module. So if you're on, I believe it was 2023 of dental system or newer, they added the ability to do partials in the denture module.
And that gives you a better result than just doing it in the partial.
Yeah, because in the partial design, you can still do the teeth and you can do like a basically a thin base, but then you have to build all the tissue up around the teeth.
Yeah.
With this, it's just like running through a denture only you're only doing the teeth that you tell it that you want to do.
Oh, interesting. I didn't know they had that update. That does sound better.
Yeah. And the other nice thing about it too is if you have a patient, which we do, not a ton of these, but we do have some where we're doing like a full denture opposing a flexible partial, we can design them at the same time.
Oh, interesting. That is nice. And you mentioned that Detax has denture material.
Yeah.
Is that the same as the flexible?
The base resin is different.
Because it's rigid.
Yeah, it's more rigid. I've used it and it matches pretty close. It's not identical as far as the color of the base, but it's pretty close.
Oh, I mean, yeah, you'll never get it. Even traditionally, you'll never match it that perfect. And the flexibles, can you do, I mean, obviously it's just whatever you can design. So I imagine you can do, what are they, Nesbits or spiders or whatever you want to call them.
Yeah, you can do. I've done a ton of unilaterals. I've done a bunch of flippers where with no clasps, I've done a ton of flexible partials with it. You can do pretty much whatever you want with that material.
Yeah. Well, Veronica, what's the feedback you're getting from labs? I mean, are they excited to finally be able to print flexibles?
Absolutely, absolutely, Elvis. So it's been, so we received great feedback since the introduction last November in the States and the product was released even earlier in Europe. So we have received from the European customers as well very good feedback. a lot of laboratories are still in the process of making the switch, from the traditional manufacturing to 3D printing. So some of the labs are still in the process of identifying which way to go. And some introduced the digital partial dentures in addition to their current solutions. So there are many options, but overall, yeah, the fit has been amazing, especially the material properties and the super easy process is what the customers really, really like. So it's so easy and fast, as Brendan mentioned, and with our solution with the denture teeth, so that you can bond with the liquid denture, flexible denture resin to bond it. It's just great. You receive a great chemical adhesion so that you have a bulletproof partial denture.
I mean, not having teeth pop off is huge.
Yeah, absolutely.
What about adjusting it? Does it give you that flexible adjusting shredding? kind of feel or does it adjust more like a denture?
It adjusts just like a denture. It's not it doesn't shred like a flexible typically does because it doesn't have so most of those flexible resins have like fibers that make them flex. This resin is all the same material throughout so there's no little fibers in it. And the other nice thing too about it is, when you go in sometimes on those flexible, traditional flexibles, when you go to pick up the teeth and process it, you'll get little air pockets and stuff underneath the teeth.
Oh yeah, tons of them.
When you do this, it's just like doing a digital denture. So you flow resin underneath it and then you put the tooth in or the bridge of teeth in. It fills in all those air pockets and once you cure it, becomes pretty much part of that base. So short of the thing snapping, that's the only way you're going to break those teeth out there.
That's fantastic. I mean, you're just solving every problem we have with flexibles. I mean, that and just the simple fact that hardly anybody does them anymore. It's hard to find people to do them. Talk about your splint resins. I don't understand why, what a taff is and flex and 2.0 there's.
You're asking me, right, Elvis?
Yeah, whoever.
Yeah, of course. I think that Splint 2.0, this was our second generation standard, really hard Splint material. It's been around for a couple of years, and the new Splint Master flexed. and CAF has been established to offer a more flexible solution for night guards. And we said, okay, we don't want to have one, we want to have two versions of it. And they're both considered as flexible splints. The Splint Master Flex is really, really flexible. So really, I think. how much? Sixty-three or something, if I recall correctly? Sure, these are really flexible, whereas the TAF is more comparable to the Keysplint soft resin. So, it's called TAF, but it's still a flexible resin, and I think that TAF is being more printed than the flex, but it's a personal, personal preference, right? And so I think that Brandon tested both and he likes the flexible more, right? Brandon.
I like the flexible because there's nothing else really on the market like it. It's got almost the feel of like an indirect bonding tray flexibility, but not quite that flexible.
And probably thicker, right?
Yeah, it's thicker and it'll withstand the biting forces better. But it's an option that hasn't been out there. Every company that makes a splint resin, it's a hard splint that when you heat it up, it gets softer.
Yep.
But this material is already soft.
Interesting. I bet it's more comfortable for the patient too.
Exactly.
Yeah.
As you say, it's a preference. So therefore, we came up with both solutions. And yeah, I think it's great to have options.
No, absolutely. So you mentioned a Siga. What does it work on all the printers? I mean, what's What's that like?
We have validated most of our resins on a number of open printers, so it's not only Asiga. Asiga was one of the first printers we validate our resins on. have the longest on standing cooperation with them, also started in the audiology back then, so.
That's crazy.
Yeah, but we have extended our list of validations to other open printers or semi-open printers like Formlabs currently, right? Haygears as well, and some Shining and RapidShape. So there is a validation sheet on our website where you can look up for which printing system, which resin has been validated because not all of them are validated on all systems. So you have to see in the instructions for which system. And also the past hearing, right, is very important to mention, which is the integral part to receive and biocompatible medical device at the end of the day.
And you mentioned that you've done some courses together. What are you teaching in the course? Just design and process.
Yeah, so when we do the courses, we start off with design and then we go into printing, post-processing, and finishing.
So you run it all.
Yeah, when the attendees leave, they have a finished product.
Do you actually do it on the hand? that's cool. You're going to be at Lab Day East doing it? I think that's coming up, isn't it?
No, I won't be at Lab Day East.
Me neither.
Yeah.
But there will be a course at SEGA in September, I think September 11th. I think, Brandon, you're going to do the design part this time.
Yeah. Yeah, I'll be at that one.
Yeah.
We'll talk about that real quick. I mean, I think this will be out before then. That's up in, where is he, Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
So that course, Asiga puts these on pretty much all the time. I think they're up to at least a couple of months now with different companies and combinations. But basically what it is, is it's a fully hands-on course. So everybody comes in if for the design side, you get a laptop that you sit there and it's instructor led. So I know they do three shape. They've done some exocad courses and then they do a like a finished product. So like with the detax flexible resins, we print them there. So the guys from a seagull show how to nest them properly. They'll show how to post process them properly and cure them. And then For that particular course, I also show the hands on on how to finish them.
Yeah.
So we do like some polishing and finishing the teeth and stuff like that. And then the user can take their flexible with them when they leave. But these courses, there's $100 registration fee for them. But as long as you show up for the course, you get that money back.
That's smart of them. I bet you if it was free, everybody would sign up and nobody would show up.
Yeah, we were having that issue where people would sign up and not show up, or people from other countries that we clearly knew weren't going to fly into the U.S. would sign up and then it would fill the spot. I think they limit it to a total of like 25 people.
Yeah, that makes sense.
So now there's a fee and then you pay the fee online and then you get that money back after you attend the course. So it's nice.
Yeah. You mentioned nesting. Is there any special nesting that needs to happen with the flexible material?
Yeah, when I nest mine, I like to do them kind of like a denture base. So I'll tilt them up on like a 45 degree angle. I personally like to support around the borders. That way I don't have to go inside and do a lot of finishing there. I also make sure I always put one support on each of the tips of any clasps that I have.
That makes sense.
Because a lot of times that little point that you need there fails and then you'll end up with a rounded clasp and it won't hit that undercut like it's supposed to. And then the teeth, you just print them the basal sides down and put all the supports down there. The reason you do that is when you go to seat them into the pockets, you can see clearly if you have little nubs there because that surface is completely smooth. If you try and put them like on the occlusion or the, you know, axial walls, then you're basically hitting supports, you know, you hitting the anatomy with the supports and then you end up with, you know, some weird anatomy there. So Putting it on the basils is way easier.
Interesting, yeah. I just, in my mind, I'm thinking the supports are flexible though. So how does that support it? But I guess it's not that flexible.
Yeah, usually what I'll do is I'll put my supports to where they're kind of close together. So like with the Asiga, which is what I use, from the part down to the build platform, the supports kind of get wider. So I try to make sure at the base of the support, it's interconnected with the next support. So it's kind of chain linked together at the bottom. And that gives it more stability.
Man, you do put some thought into this nesting. Most of us just let it do its thing.
Yep.
I just want to mention that we also have some suggestions, like from our side on the nesting for different resins, which is also available on our website for download under each resin, and some additional workflow guides for the bonding and stuff, so there's some. something I just wanted to mention.
No, absolutely.
I want to look it up.
Yeah, it's super easy. Detax.com, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Super easy. So what's next? What's the next big resin you're going to come out with that's going to make our lives easier? Tell us all your secrets. Come on.
Yeah, basically we just launched a new resin a couple of months ago, which is our retainer. DX retainer we call it. It's a great product so you can really print thin retainers up to 0.5 millimeters and they have great mechanical characteristics and also. great biocompatibility with no residues whatsoever. It's a great product. I think Brandon, I sent you a bottle for testing. Have you had a chance to test it yet?
I do have it and I have not tested it yet.
Sounds like a technician. Excited to hear your feedback on this one, but we are quite confident that this is really great resin. We released actually in Europe the direct aligner material and we're still in the process to register the aligner material in the States, but it takes longer than expected. But we are on it and this will be our new new launch in the next couple of months, maybe next year for the Chicago Lib Day show. So stay tuned. But also we are working on extension of our shades for the crown material. So we do have like 9 shades now and they are really sufficient, let's say, but there are still some missing. So we will do that. We will extend our line here. And some other things which are still top secret. But I'm sure it's going to be something great.
Oh, I can only imagine. I can only imagine. This is exciting. I'm looking forward to bringing flexible, printed flexible partials into the lab I'm at. I know it's something I want to do real bad. We got hey gears, so I think we're halfway there.
Yeah, it's validated on hey gears, so you can really start.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Veronica, Brandon, thank you so much. This is some good stuff. I really appreciate you both taking the time. Veronica talking about the company and Brandon being someone that actually uses it. You know, I've always said having a company on to talk about their product is pretty straightforward what's going to happen. But hearing your side of it, I'm excited.
Absolutely. Thank you, Elvis.
Absolutely. Or will we see you both at Lab Fest?
Yes, I will be there. Yeah, I will be there with a booth.
Yeah.
I will not be there.
Brandon, come on, man. Get away from work for a weekend. Have some fun.
Have some fun.
Well, thank you so much and have a good weekend. We'll see you soon.
Likewise. You too.
Thank you. Have a good one.
Thank you. Thank you, Elvis.
Bye.
Thank you, Brendan.
Big thanks to Brandon and Veronica for joining us on the podcast, or I should say Elvis. I was really sorry that I was unavailable to be a part of this conversation, but I do know that a lot of people in the industry are talking about D-Tax flexible resonant, including my son and us at Lexer, and how much it has been needed for so long. Everybody, head over to detax.com to learn more or even better, head to LabFest in October and meet Veronica in person so you can see for yourself.
All right, everybody. That's all we got for you.
Happy September. It's my birthday month.
Oh my gosh, it's finally September. It's her birthday month. Everyone start hitting up her gift list now.
You know it. Have a good one.
All right, everybody. We'll talk to you next week. Have a good one.
Not like a ton, but I don't know where the they come from. They're disgusting.
The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.