Science For Sport (00:01.376)
Eric, I'm delighted to have you on this week's podcast. Obviously, you've enjoyed a very successful career as an athlete in both the two man and four man Bob competitions. You've now adjusted to life away from the Bob Slay track as a high performance coach. And we're intrigued to hear all about it as well. So welcome along to the show.

Eric Franke (00:03.019)
Thanks for having me.

Science For Sport (00:23.47)
Let's start first of all by looking back at your career in bobsleigh, you're an Olympic silver medalist in Pyeongchang in 2018, you're a world silver medalist, you've won bronze medals at the worlds in the two and four man bob competition as well. Now you look back on that career, what was it like here and what are the things that stand out for you?

Eric Franke (00:48.362)
Well, mentioned a lot of silver medals and actually two bronze medals. You didn't mention any goals because there were none, at least not at major competitions. I did have a couple of Cup wins, but that's definitely something that I have been thinking about looking back. Obviously, a bobsleigh consists of a...

performance result consists of many different factors and especially in a team sport like bobsleigh it's not always in your hands as a push athlete nor as a driver so everything has to come together but I look back to a career that I'm very satisfied with and I've learned a lot about myself I've learned a lot about what it's like to compete at the highest level which you know to...

actually has a lot of similarities to other, like to life in general, to business. know, there are many, many similarities, many patterns that I recognized later on after my career that I've already picked up on as an athlete. But just being an athlete means that you need to, you're constantly dealing with yourself and you're constantly dealing with your next.

goal, your next competition, your next, there is always next, right? You're never looking back really, and you're always focusing on what's to come. And that, yeah, worked out for me quite well, I would say, but I think I've made a few mistakes realizing like now afterwards, working as a coach and working with other high performers from different fields, that, yeah, I would think I would do things

little bit differently if I had a chance to redo them but I also understood my strengths actually maybe some strengths I didn't realize at the time but looking back obviously there must have been something I did right otherwise I wouldn't have been able to achieve what I did but yeah so I'm quite reflected on my past career as an athlete and now I try to pass it on too.

Eric Franke (03:06.267)
the next generation.

Science For Sport (03:07.668)
Well those lessons that you've learned is certainly something I want to get into over the course of this conversation but I guess the obvious question initially is what is it like to compete at the highest level, to compete at the Olympics because for any professional athlete, amateur athletes going to the Olympics of course, that's the pinnacle, that's the gold standard and yet it strikes me, we saw it a lot with Milano Cortina that's just gone earlier this year.

Eric Franke (03:30.983)
Yes, quite significant. forget that you have a new competition this year. What is that? What did you do?

Science For Sport (03:36.238)
There's a lot of outside noise for these athletes to deal with. This pressure as well, not just put on themselves, but external pressure. So was it always the way when you competed and what was it like? How did you handle

Eric Franke (03:58.306)
and occurs at the same time, you don't get the media attention that you would like to and that the sport, probably every sport would say that about themselves, that they deserve more media attention. But around, you know, peak competitions like Olympic Games, World Championships, Olympic Games is obviously the highest that you could achieve in this sport. And that's what it's all about. We think in quads, that's how the system works.

Going to the Olympics, yes, there's more media attention, especially being part of a team. If you're competing for Team Germany in any sliding sport, you are a medal favorite. That's just how it is. But the noise actually comes more from inside the team. And this is what I have learned, that everybody is stressed out. Everybody feels pressure. The coaches feel pressure.

the athletes, like your teammates feel pressure, your pilot, your driver feels a lot of pressure because they all, it all means the world to them and it's all their performance and their, the success of their work is being measured by medals and by, yeah, where you ended up at the Olympic games. And so naturally there is a lot of...

pressure added pressure to you as an athlete because people want to double check and triple check if you are the right guy for the job or if you are the right woman for the job. And this was definitely a new experience and I looking back, I don't know exactly at times how I handled the pressure because your normal life goes on. You you still have a maybe a family. did at the time already have a family and I, you know, private life goes on and then there is this

I also happened to be injured at the time, but luckily I wasn't aware of the grade of that injury and I was able to compete and finish. And later on I found out that I had a torn meniscus, which is not a major, major, I've had this before. It just showed different symptoms, but it was quite a lot. But in the moment you're just...

Eric Franke (06:11.565)
so focused on what you want to achieve that this is the ultimate, that you just really want to be at your best when it really matters. And it's astonishing if you think about what we as humans are capable of, like how much pressure we can handle and how much noise we can block out and we can just really stay focused. obviously if we, you know, there are people who struggle with that and there are people and that's probably what makes a good performer.

compared to somebody that is unable to perform when it really matters, that you can block out the noise. No matter if it's media, no matter if it's teammates, it doesn't matter where the noise comes from, but to be able to just really focus and block out everything that is unnecessary.

Science For Sport (07:00.972)
And course your role in the four-man and two-man Bob teams was the brake man. So for people that aren't familiar or don't know an awful lot about the bobsleigh competition, explain the importance of that role to us and how you carried out in the course of the race and how it varies between the two competitions.

Eric Franke (07:12.35)
I'm to take a look.

Eric Franke (07:18.666)
Yes, brakeman actually that the term goes back to the old times when when the guy in the back no matter if it was a two-man or a four-man there's always somebody sitting at the back position and that person's job was to break in front of corners there were certain braking zones now about 40 years ago I think it was 1980 they stopped doing that and there was a German sled who for the first that's mine

That's what I know was for the first time ever able to finish a run without breaking at all, which obviously is a big risk, right? If it goes wrong, people would laugh at him, but it went well. think it was the 1980 Olympics and he won a gold, a Minot Nima. And so we kept the name, but we stopped. We stopped actually the job that got the the position, its name. So

We traditionally call all the push athletes position in the foreman. have a side handle left and right. And then the guy in the back, that's, that was me. you call them all like brake men, even though nobody's actually, you know, the, guy in the back breaks behind the, after the finish line. Yes, but not during the race that you don't want to, that's like a no-go. You don't do that. you would get in trouble with the ice makers and,

with your team naturally as well. So my job essentially is to or was to accelerate the sled as fast as possible. For that you need to be able, this is a Science for Sport podcast, so we can dive into that right away a little bit because I guess that's what people want to hear.

Science For Sport (09:01.122)
Yeah, absolutely, because whenever I hear the bobsled competition, specifically speed relating to it, my mind always goes back to when I was a kid. And for those that go back far enough, the film Cool Runnings in the 80s, and you've got the coach that has these four Jamaican bobsledders, three of them he claims can run the 100 metres in 10 flat. And he speaks to a colleague at the Olympics and the question comes back, can lightning run on ice? Well, this is...

Eric Franke (09:09.64)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Science For Sport (09:29.43)
your job now essentially as a high performance coach is to teach speed to improve the explosivity of these athletes. So I'll throw that question at you. Can lightning run on ice?

Eric Franke (09:33.982)
Yeah, so this is probably the most traditional transition to bobsleigh coming from a sprinting background, right? And if you can run the 100 meters under 10 seconds, that definitely helps you in bobsleigh. It doesn't guarantee that you will be a good push athlete. And this is what I find quite fascinating is because

We've seen many talented sprinters from different nations who tried and didn't succeed and why that is we can only guess but the qualities that are necessary for bobsleigh are actually a bit contrary because you need to be able to produce high amounts of force to move the sled to get the sled moving. Yes, you do it with your teammates but in two-man for example

The sled still weighs at least 170 kilos, right? In four-man it would be 210. But this is on ice and it depends on the profile of the push track and everything. are different variables, but you still, you need to be strong. But you need to be able to also reach at the other end of the push right before you get in, you're reaching speeds of up to 11, 11 and a half meters per second, right? So this is, we're now talking beyond 40 kilometers per hour.

You're running downhill. So it's not the same as if you, you can't translate it directly to a sprint. can't say that every bobsleigh athlete is able to run 11 meters per second or faster, on flat in a straight line. That's not the case. We're running downhill. We can offload, but you need to be able to be come from this all out acceleration, high resistance, all you've got to somehow get into a relaxed mindset.

and not tighten up and be able to fully commit to the push and not be scared because there is no way back. The only way you can get out of the situation is by, especially if you're in the back, you're the last guy to get in. So you're relying on the timing of your teammates to be perfect in order to carry as much velocity into the sled as possible. that is, it's a job that is done within five or six seconds.

Eric Franke (11:51.151)
But there is like, you know, it's a lifetime that you're going through. There is like a game plan that you're going through. And this is what I find quite fascinating. And I would highly recommend for anybody who is thinking of transitioning or trying out, should, because it's definitely a great experience.

Science For Sport (11:55.246)
Ha ha ha!

Science For Sport (12:08.896)
Yeah, it's a really slick operation, like you say, in those opening five or six seconds to get the bob on the track and sliding. I noticed on your on your website, in particularly in relation to speed, you write speed is a game changer in almost every sport nowadays, but still doesn't get the attention it deserves. How do you put a shine a greater spotlight, if you like, on speed training? And what are the core principles you need in order to get quicker?

Eric Franke (12:26.651)
you're going to get the attention it takes you to do. How do you progress progress from point A to What's the space of training? What are the core principles you need to follow to get there? Sure. mean, speed, generally speaking, is we're talking about how can you get from point A to point B the quickest. Now, the distance between could be

five meters, it could be a hundred meters depending on your sport. So it looks a little bit different when we're talking about team sport athletes, when we're talking about sprinters, when we talk about bobsleigh athletes. But if we break it down to the core principles, right? What do you need to be fast? You need to be able to produce high amounts of force and short as possible timeframes. Rate of force development needs to be as good as possible.

You need to be to some extent, rate of force development is one thing, but you also need to be running efficiently, right? You need to be able to get from point A to B while at the same time spending as little energy as possible. Because as a team sport athlete, you want to be able to repeat this for a hundred times per game. If you are a sprinter, you have another 90 meters to go that you want to continue building speed.

And since I'm not like a team sports coach, I'm a speed coach. of course, high performance kind of is my, this is kind of the ceiling, the roof I'm operating under, but speed is my main physical quality that I help people improve. And what I've learned is also that in the team sport context, and that's what I meant when I wrote on my website,

is that it doesn't get the attention it deserves. Everybody knows that it's important and yet, and it could be professional teams, it could be amateur teams and in Germany, especially we're talking about football slash soccer. If I refer to it as soccer, please forgive me. I was just been, my English comes from an American background. So this is why I call it soccer.

Science For Sport (14:42.882)
I think we're gonna hear the term soccer a lot over this coming summer, reckon.

Eric Franke (14:46.449)
Yes, yes, I think so too. With the USA. So basically, knows the importance of it. Everybody talks about the importance of it. Yet only a few people, a few coaches out there dare to actually dedicate the time it takes to develop speed and the attention. To develop speed, you need to be rested. You need to be somewhat have an eye on fatigue management and then position

throughout the weak structure position your speed training exactly in a way that makes it most efficient. And that's why I think a lot of people have made negative experiences with trying to develop speed because they probably didn't dedicate the priority it needs to develop speed. And it takes time too, obviously. So yes, these are...

Basically, a well-rounded team sport athlete should be able to check all the boxes and speed is just one of them, but speed also comes in the form of decision-making. You need to be able to read the field and to act quickly under pressure when it matters. These are all components that I don't see at times being fully implemented. As a speed coach,

I'm highly biased, so if you ask me, it should be probably much more speed training than the reality shows. obviously, coach who is involved with the team has their own focus and their own bias. And to find common ground is really the ultimate goal.

Science For Sport (16:28.088)
Yeah, absolutely. And when we talk about speed, it's not necessarily over a long period we're talking about that explosive nature over, like you say, being on a football rugby field, whatever it might be, over the first 10 metres can often be a difference maker as well. in terms of strength and conditioning, training methods, what does an athlete need to do? What can an athlete do in order to gain that edge, to be that little bit more explosive that gives them the advantage over the first couple

Eric Franke (16:48.288)
What do you actually need to do to get a little bit more explosive? It helps to talk to somebody who knows, to have a qualified coach by your side. could be in person, could be remotely.

Science For Sport (16:57.709)
Yachts.

Eric Franke (17:11.486)
There are some good, very good online setups that allow for quality feedback and quality training to happen. But generally speaking, parts of what I mentioned for what I see lacking for teams, the same goes for individual players, right? Where do you position speed work and where does it make sense for you if you are still in high school and your day starts at eight in the morning?

If I would tell you to try to squeeze in a speed session before school, that probably wouldn't make any sense for you because your body would just not be ready. And then you're literally wasting your time. And you would feel horrible doing it most likely. Now, but then in the afternoon you have your team practices. so where do you fit in? Where do you fit in the time for speed work? And this is where like a highly individualized program comes in. And once you have figured out...

two or three great timings for implementing speed training throughout your week. This is now when you need to think about, what do you have access to? Do you have access to a full gym? Do you have access to a field, a track, whatever? Speed is actually super simple. The basics for everything you need for the basics is just a straight line. And you can jump in a straight line, or you can jump sideways, right? So jumps.

Especially with the stretch shortening cycle involved are probably, they need to be prepared, but if you're looking for bang for your buck, it covers pretty much everything you need to get faster, to get stronger, to get more reactive coordination. And this is probably my go-to exercise away from actually running fast. That's the number one, non-negotiable.

But anything below that is probably developing the ability to jump, to coordinate your limbs and your body in space the best way possible. And the good thing about jumping, the good thing about plyometrics, if you move from simple, like a pogo jump, to more complex, like bounding or single leg bounding, something that takes skill and that takes time to prepare. But if you're able to achieve that,

Eric Franke (19:35.736)
you definitely are able to do much more than just jumping. You're probably able to run faster. You're probably able to move much more efficiently. And the good thing is you get feedback immediately. If your jump didn't turn out, if you didn't hit like the ground properly where you want it to hit and the timing is off, you feel it instantly. So this is a good feedback loop for yourself also to understand what was without a coach telling you, you understand and that kind of that intrinsic

feedback is basically what, no, sorry, that would be external feedback. How basically we move through space and understand if what we did was efficient or not. So this would be probably, if I was coaching an athlete right now, I would probably try to develop that skill next to running fast and probably even stay away from the gym.

For some time, I know I would probably get crucified for saying that by many strength coaches.

Science For Sport (20:38.347)
I going to say that would be controversial for many coaches.

Eric Franke (20:41.023)
Exactly. I understand, I understand where they come from. coaching is probably highly biased by your background. If you are somebody who has, for example, an American football background, naturally, your training would probably be a lot more gym heavy. And I would disagree with that. But that's kind of the beauty of it. There is no coaching police out there. There is nobody that can tell you

you know, this is illegal. What you're doing. No, you kind of have to develop your own philosophies and there's always kind of pros and cons for, for, you know, for, for, for certain philosophies. and, I just think that, that's playoffs and jump training in general is something that covers. Stuff you are trying to build in the gym and, and it helps you to build qualities that you don't necessarily build in the gym. Like,

coordination and orientation and space, that kind of stuff.

Science For Sport (21:41.472)
Yeah, and we've had many guests on this podcast as well, Eric, that would tell you everything you're talking about leads to an athlete being better trained, muscle memory, physically developed to compete in an athletic competitive arena. Whereas they would also argue that sometimes you can spend too much time in the gym and you may have a great looking body, but does that, is that the body that you need to be at your best out on the field of play?

Eric Franke (22:02.029)
and you may have a drink at the party, but...

Science For Sport (22:09.677)
It's a really interesting conversation to have. know earlier as well you said when reflecting on your own career, now that you're a high performance coach, there were many lessons that you think you've learned and now trying to pass on. Let's just delve a little bit into that before we wrap up. What are some of those lessons and how do you think they influence the coaching you're able to give and the athletes you work with?

Eric Franke (22:10.37)
Yes.

Eric Franke (22:33.682)
Yeah, that's a good question. definitely, in general, I'm a big thinker. always think about different philosophically, mostly about different aspects of coaching and life and work in general. But looking back to my career as an athlete, I was not reflected enough. I was too emotionally invested into this is a strange thing to say, but

I was too emotionally invested to be able to look at the reality. So a big part of tracking progress is to track progress. And how do you do that? You measure, you test, you try to find parameters that are relevant for your sport. For bobsleigh, it would, for example, be a triple broad jump or anything consecutive horizontal jumping is a good indicator. Sprints, naturally, a few gym lifts.

And I wasn't, I was too afraid to kind of look at to potentially realize that I have little, have wasted my time for a month or so doing things that didn't help me progress the way I wanted to, but I was working so hard. So I didn't want to face the truth. I didn't want to kind of, I was rather, rather waiting for a, you know, day X when we needed to prove ourselves as push athletes in the single push test. That's the

the ultimate day for a push athlete, the single push testing, because that's how teams are being selected. That's where you want to perform. And it doesn't necessarily correlate with the team effort, but you need to select somehow. And I delivered on these days, but leading up to them, I'm wondering how well could I have been.

If, if I let myself be more rational throughout the process of leading up to these pushchamps and being able to look at numbers and being able to look at data more rationally without emotionally being too involved. But I also have to say that for a long time throughout my career, I would train coach myself. So I would write my own training programs. would develop my own.

Eric Franke (24:47.709)
development strategies and it led to a silver medal at the Olympics. It led to several world champs medals. But throughout the later stages of my career, I started working with a coach who also happened to be a very good coach, Patrick Seile, who is coaching the Swiss sprinters and box the athletes as well and a very good coach. And that definitely also taught me that I should have turned to him before I did.

because having somebody by your side, and this is now, you will soon realize that now the kind of the loop closes, the circle closes because we mostly worked remotely and he understood I'm an experienced athletes. He understood that I'm taking this very seriously. I have made my own experiences. I know, and I understand what works for me and what doesn't work for me. So he would, instead of putting his program on me,

He would always tell me, look, this is a reference for you. Like this is, I'm giving you a framework and you can move within that framework freely. Or if you have other opinions, let me know and we can discuss. So it would be a more eye to eye relationship. And, and I grew up in track and field as a sprinter and my coach back then, he would tell me, one of my coaches, he would tell me for younger athletes, he is a coach. he.

He needs to tell them what to do. But as an athlete gets older and gets more experienced, becomes the coaching role becomes more of an advisory role. And this is kind of my biggest takeaway. And that's how I work. need to be able to adapt to who am I working with? Am I working with a seasoned athlete, somebody who is 30 years plus, who has been doing this for a long time, knows exactly what they need, but they also need that certain, they need guardrails.

Right. So I set up guardrails in my head and they are different for everyone with non-negotiables. And I let the athletes move along the road as long as within these guardrails and gently push them back on the road when I feel that they're taking, they're about to hit the guardrail, right? They're about to get off road or at least be in danger of doing so. And this

Science For Sport (27:07.209)
Now that's quite interesting because I know you're working with the Latvian skeleton and bobsleigh athletes as well. So the obvious question is, do you see elements of yourself in the way some of these athletes you're working with approach their respective competitions? And do you now have a greater appreciation for the frustration of these disciplines through your experience and when it comes to coaching?

Eric Franke (27:12.611)
Yeah.

Eric Franke (27:31.779)
Yeah, I mean, definitely this is, is working with the team is a little bit different because you need to have, you carry responsibility for the outcome of the, the, of the season, at least to some extent, you're carrying more responsibility for the overall performance outcome and working with individuals. This is where these guardrails and, and where I am more influencing an individual process. I'm not involved with the federation. I'm not involved with,

You know, anybody, any decision makers that are kind of connected to the federation, but with the Latvian federation, that's a, that's a different story. And to answer your question, I am very much able to relate to what they are going through. And this is part of my philosophy. I like to sit down with each of them and understand what's, who is the person behind the athlete? Like who is the, what makes them who they are.

And by understanding this is my style and I would say that I'm quite good at reading people and their personalities to some extent. And then I try to give them what they need. If this is somebody who is relying on coaches feedback, if this is someone who likes to engage in conversations about training and exchange ideas of how to approach certain training aspects.

I'm always happy to do so. But if I have somebody in front of me who just wants to be told what to do, and that's okay, right? Because then that's what I need to do. I need to tell them, okay, here's the program. You start here and you end there and there is no, you know, maybe give like some orientation, okay? Like if you feel that if you have a chance to test your sprints, for example.

Let's agree on a percentage drop off. And if you hit the drop off, you end your session because naturally someone who likes to be told what to do and relies on that is also somebody who doesn't have the intrinsic, like the feedback to understand, I risking my health here? I, my hamstrings are tight. Maybe I should, you know, pull it, dial it down a bit or so this is.

Eric Franke (29:50.538)
I just have to start on a different level with the kind of communication and giving them the tools that they need. Because ultimately what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to raise sovereign athletes. This is my ultimate goal as a coach, to raise athletes that have the tools necessary to make the best possible decisions when I'm not around. And that could be in a competition, it could be when they're training home alone.

But it just makes my life a lot easier and their own lives a lot easier if they have like a general idea of what we're trying to accomplish and how to solve a problem that I can't help them with in exactly that moment.

Science For Sport (30:35.533)
Yeah, again, I think you're highlighting the importance, and this happens across the board, of having good, clear communication lines and essentially man management. We're dealing with individuals here and no two individuals are the same. Listen, Eric, this has been a fascinating conversation. I've been thoroughly enthralled by everything you've had to say, and I'm sure our listeners have as well. I know you're on social media, so where can they find you and pick up some tips along the way?

Eric Franke (30:53.312)
See you later.

Eric Franke (31:01.792)
My Insta handle is b.eric. Yeah, that's my Insta handle. And if they want to look up my website, you mentioned eric-franky.com. I'm actually now shifting it to sovereign-performance.com. So if you want to reach out there, please feel free. I'm always happy to have conversations.

Science For Sport (31:24.765)
sure plenty of our listeners will be doing just that on the back of this conversation. Eric Frank, it's been an absolute pleasure and thanks for your time and I wish you all the best going forward.

Eric Franke (31:34.144)
Thank you, you too.