Taking the Lead: How Personal Advocacy Can Transform Your Career (5/30/24) === ​[00:00:00] Donna Serdula: Isaiah, we're on. ~So how are you doing?~ Isaiah Hankel: Hi Donna. How are you? Donna Serdula: Good. I'm good. So something interesting happened to me that I wanted to talk to you about. And, um, In a way, I'm now that I'm looking at it, I'm looking back at it and I'm recognizing that this what occurred is almost like a microcosm as to job search, having a successful business, having a successful career and almost like branding in general. So ~this is, ~this is what occurred to me. I had gotten word that, ~um, ~not far from where I live, they were going to build a Chick fil A. Isaiah Hankel: Okay. Donna Serdula: I know, sounds crazy. In the most, the worst location possible, not only was it like really close to houses, but it's in this area that's already congested. Like it's, it's just, it just wasn't the right [00:01:00] place. ~And, ~and so I've got a lot going on in my world, right? I don't have time to, to become a community organizer or anything to this extent, Isaiah Hankel: Right. Donna Serdula: but I felt really strongly cause this is near my home. I'm like, I can't let this happen. But I kept thinking someone else would step up and take over and like, get people organized and do something and no one did. No one did. And so I feel compelled to start a petition and, and to start trying to say, Hey, real estate developers, we don't want you here. The zoning's not right. You need variances. Like don't even, don't even go down this path. Right. So where am I going with it? So. I start this petition and you know, I need to get people to sign it Isaiah Hankel: Yeah. Donna Serdula: and I start going onto social media and I'm posting links to it. But oddly enough, I'm not getting a lot of traction. Isaiah Hankel: Hmm. Donna Serdula: But what did get me [00:02:00] traction was I had to go out and meet with people. I had to canvas my area. I had to shake hands. ~But as soon as I start doing that, other people start talking about it. ~Next thing we know, we have almost a thousand signatures. Isaiah Hankel: Wow. Donna Serdula: Now, as I'm doing this, I start getting messages, hate mail from people telling me that I'm a Karen telling me just strange things. And ~then after, you know, we, ~then I have to ~then ~give a speech in front of the township, ~you know, ~letting them ~know why this is, you ~know, why it's a bad idea. It's not just that it's near my house, but ~it's just ~location wise. It just doesn't make sense. ~So I, ~I do this and then. I suddenly start getting messages ~from, ~from people within the community telling me that I should be running for the local government. So, let's step back. Where's the microcosm here? Like what's sticking out to you? Because there's a whole bunch of things here sticking out to me. One, ~you have to, you have to be, ~sometimes you have to be the one that takes that step forward. No one else is going to do it. You have to do it Isaiah Hankel: Yes. Donna Serdula: ~too.~ When you do step forward, [00:03:00] you got to meet with people in person. Isaiah Hankel: person. Yeah. That's a differentiator. Donna Serdula: Right to, you're going to get haters, Isaiah Hankel: Oh, for sure. Donna Serdula: you're going to get haters and you have to be able to just keep pushing through it. ~You know, ~you can't pay attention to that stuff. And then the other piece of this that really like, I think ~my, ~my jaw dropped a little bit was it doesn't take much that when a person does step forward. People start to realize it and opportunities start to drop in your lap. ~You know, this whole thing of, Oh, Donna, we want you to now run. I never thought of that. And I don't even think I want to, but like, ~I never would have thought that by simply taking those steps, stuff would happen. So like, if you look at this, think of how this applies to your business. I'm sure you've experienced some of these things as well. I mean, all of us have, whenever you step forward, things happen. Isaiah Hankel: Yeah. I think ~what you're, ~what also happens ~in ~is ~if you, if, step forward, ~things are not going to happen right away. Donna Serdula: That's yeah. Isaiah Hankel: miss. And if you [00:04:00] step forward just online with how congested it is, are not just going to happen. ~So I think a lot of people, they step forward.~ ~They're like, I'm going to do something. ~They get out there loud, maybe on social media alone, and they don't get that response. Donna Serdula: Yeah, Isaiah Hankel: And they give up Donna Serdula: they give up. ~Yeah.~ Isaiah Hankel: and then getting out and I mean this, you talk about it being a microcosm, whether it's job searching or anything, like if you want to get something done, if you go out and meet people, think everybody's made that decision eventually was like, I got to go out to, you know, again, just for that context, the job fair, or I got to go out to this, where these companies are going to be, or I got to go to a, some sort of networking event or in person. That's when things will start happening because people know the person behind the post rather than just thinking it's whatever AI or something else posting. And then the opportunities come because you're just there. Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: showed up physically, Donna Serdula: Yeah. It's almost like you've splashed around. You've waved your hand. You're like, Hey, I'm here. And I think people are hungry for that. I think there's so few people. Who are willing to do that. The other [00:05:00] part of the social media piece that I recognized is, you know, I'm suddenly jumping into these groups that I have never been active in, or I just joined the group and I'm posting out of the blue. And of course, you know, Facebook and Twitter and Instagram aren't, ~um, ~necessarily, ~you know, ~showing ~these, these, ~these posts to people because I hadn't established a presence yet, ~you know, so,~ Isaiah Hankel: ~do. ~I think they, yeah, in a job search, it's just like, I'm just going to upload a bunch of these resumes. going to go to these job sites indeed monster post my resume there, and these people are going to be there. And then they feel a sense of rejection. If nothing happens, it's like, well, there's no. You haven't met anybody, nobody knows you Donna Serdula: yeah, yeah. Isaiah Hankel: you. Like you have to go to people's doorsteps. People don't want to leave their homes. I think people are hungry for it, ~but they don't have, ~but I think we've, people have been trained to not have that kind of initiative anymore. Donna Serdula: Yeah, Isaiah Hankel: ~They don't, ~they don't have company over anymore. Like you're going out somewhere. They're just doing it online. Like they're just not used to it. So if you do that, ~it's, ~it's a way to separate yourself from the majority of people instantly just by being the person that'll go out, show up at a [00:06:00] company's doorstep. ~Maybe right. Something similar.~ Donna Serdula: ~I, ~I remember years ago when I first, ~you know, ~took that first step into the career, ~you know, ~into the professional world. And I remember my father saying that to me, you've got to knock on doors. You've got to get out there. Why don't you just ~just drive to that ~drive to that company and show up with your resume in hand Isaiah Hankel: Yeah. Donna Serdula: you hand it to them. ~And back then, the thought of that, like, yeah. ~I could not even imagine. I couldn't imagine doing it and I didn't do it. Isaiah Hankel: Yeah, Donna Serdula: But now, and it's funny in retrospect now, I, I, I wonder why more don't. Isaiah Hankel: it's always there. It's always the answer. If you ever look at anybody running for any kind of office, right? Since you brought that up, I always look at that. I'm like, okay, that's the model that has worked for hundreds, thousands of years. What do they do? They're not just, they use social media for sure, but they're out there, you know, whatever, kissing babies, Donna Serdula: Shaking hands and kissing babies. Exactly. ~Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.~ Isaiah Hankel: their name recognition, they're going. ~know, I always think of like the, like the Iowa caucuses they do.~ Like there's like 99 counties. There's always some candidate every four years that goes to like all 99 counties or [00:07:00] whatever, like every single one. And they're just meeting with like five people at a time. I'm like, man, that is, I'm like, what am I doing? I'm like, oh, I'm so sad that I can't achieve whatever goal I'm like, am I going to 99 counties? Like, am I living in a van? I think of, ~uh, ~you know, people that are trying to with their, you know, like a music band or like a comedian, like they're in vans, very, sometimes not nice vans, traveling to shows where they'll get like three or four people to show up at a time for years, for 10 years. ~somebody tells me, wants to hire me because I've uploaded some resumes.~ Are you in a van? Going to company after company, right? ~Are you, I don't, you know, get a used van and drive to companies. I'm not saying to do that, but ~are you, you going like to the doorstep? Like you said, like, like that, that's, that's a huge separate, I think even just doing something by video versus uploading your resume, just on the job search topic, Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: lot of articles recently about somebody who does a video, like an interview video about why you should hire me. these people get snapped up very quickly. But then if I talked to anybody about doing that, they're like, Oh no, Donna Serdula: Yeah. ~Yeah.~ Isaiah Hankel: wanting to get hired. Donna Serdula: It is scary and I think the rejection of it is scary, [00:08:00] but ~you know, I, I do feel, ~you know, when we look at, ~you know, ~the resumes, the sheer amount of resumes that are out there and the people that are applying and it's, it's just, what can you do to separate yourself? How can you, how can you make yourself different from all the others? How can you stand out? How can you show that you care? How can you show that you're real? How can you, ~you know, it's, it's. ~That I think is really the differentiator. Isaiah Hankel: Yeah, I agree. ~I mean, that's amazing. ~That's an amazing story. ~And it, you have to find things that will you did too. And you know, you've in the professional development community, I'm sure you've heard of this. You have, ~you found leverage to get you to go past those challenges, the leverage for you. Was the fact that this was going to be near your house, there was a pain point. And Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: that pain point against yourself to drive you out there because you could have quit at any step of the way, but ~you're ~the pain and the leverage you had against yourself was enough to keep you going. And I think a lot of Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: from that pain and leverage. ~They~ Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: Oh, well, it's okay that I'm unemployed. ~Everybody is, or~ Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: don't have a job. This job's good enough. actually have to face that pain. ~There's a bunch of different, like there's like the Dickens technique, right? Or whatever, where you.~ It's like ~the, well, you know, ~the Dick Charles Dickens, the ghost of past, present, and future. So you think about how Donna Serdula: Oh, [00:09:00] yeah. Isaiah Hankel: for you. Like being like in a job that you really don't like, right. Currently what your situation is and what you really don't like about it. And then what happens in the future? If you keep on this path, you stay down here, never hit your goals, whatever. Most people hide from all of those things. They evade reality. But if you focus on it, allow yourself to feel massive pain. That's, what's going to give you the leverage to change. Donna Serdula: And I know myself, I kept thinking like, oh my gosh, I'm going to open my house and my door. And am I going to smell that chicken? It's like the thought of it was just so horrendous. ~And the thought of, you know, ~having to leave my neighborhood and, and the cars. Yeah. I do not want to smell that. Isaiah Hankel: I don't want to Donna Serdula: But, but here's, but here's the thing, Isaiah. ~I, ~I also think there's another piece to this, and when I look at the neighborhood, ~I'm still ~I'm far enough away. It isn't really going to. It's really not going to affect me. I'm far enough away from where this develop where it's where if it [00:10:00] is developed and there's a very good chance. It still might be, ~um, ~even though the township is telling me, but, you know, money talks. So we'll see what happens. But there were a lot of houses far closer. That truly will be affected and, you know, when I went to that township meeting, ~um, ~I was the only one, you know, I really was the only one that, that grabbed this and I also think that in some ways what helped me do this is that, you know, I'm okay getting in front of an audience and speaking. I'm okay talking to people and going up to, going up to strangers and saying, hi, my name is Donna Sudula, because I've networked my butt off Isaiah Hankel: Right. Donna Serdula: over the last 20, 30 years. So a lot of the stuff that I used to do ~this, this. 14 ~Were things that I did to build my business, to build my career. It had a lot to do with ~my, ~my sales, my networking. ~And, ~and I almost [00:11:00] wonder if, you know, I think a lot of people wanted to step up, but they didn't have that background or those knowledge points and it prevented them from stepping up. So in some ways, when we say, Oh, job seekers, you should be doing these things, it's so far outside of their comfort zone. So it's almost like, how can you teach a person and say, yeah, it's okay to take that step. It's okay to reach out to someone because I could do it because I do that type of thing. ~Do you know where I'm going with this? Do you see, do you see where I'm,~ Isaiah Hankel: I think what's hard for people is it's that first jumping into the cold water. So they have to do it first, get out there. I still ~remember cause you know, you, you ~remember how you feel, not necessarily what you did, but I remember the first time that I did a video and put it out there. This was. 2013, 12, something like that. ~Right.~ put a video out there and you see yourself, this is before everybody was putting videos out there before to talk, et cetera. then you get that first person to comment, like, who is this joke or whatever, [00:12:00] dude, dealing with that discomfort of Donna Serdula: yeah. Isaiah Hankel: discussed. Donna Serdula: hearing yourself that when you start to hear your own voice, oh my. Gosh, Isaiah Hankel: time, Donna Serdula: was horrible. Isaiah Hankel: And I think everybody's had that experience. As a kid, you hear your voice for the first time on recording. You're like, Oh my God, I sound like that. ~Same thing. ~Some people never get past that. They just can't say, I don't like how I look. Some people still don't like taking any pictures. ~I don't like how I look.~ Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: do this. ~So if you~ Donna Serdula: ~And, and the one, ~and the one thing I have found is I remember hearing my voice and especially as a kid, but then, ~you know, ~starting to do this type of thing, ~it was, ~it was horrible. But I will say, the more you listen to yourself, the more what you hear ~and then what you hear, you know, ~in recordings becomes the same. Isaiah Hankel: yeah, that's true. ~And you get used to it. ~You Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: you get over it. ~They becomes a small thing and you get bigger problems.~ Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: get like, it doesn't phase you as much. And I think that's what keeps a lot of people from doing it. But ~how do you, ~how do you get them ~to, ~to go out there for the first time? Just one baby step, go to ~one, ~one event with five people instead of 500, speak up to somebody, find somebody else that you can go with, something that really [00:13:00] drives you to do it. ~think ~everybody has it inside of them. I've seen ~people, you know, for years, and I think anybody as a coach would have seen this ~people for years who just can't get that thing to happen. They can talk about it, but can't get it. And something happens in their life, triggering event, and they just change everything. And they're just like a new person and they finally past it. ~And it's usually, it's usually some sort of painful~ like some sort of never again moment or like no way that's happening. ~And they be, they just get congruent and certainty ~and they do it and that's what gets them, gets them past the pain and the uncomfortableness. So Donna Serdula: So seek out, seek out those experiences. ~And~ Isaiah Hankel: yeah, go, go for them. But I think you're good. I mean, the lesson too, is that those opportunities are going to come like you just, that's what's the magic thing about networking is everybody always wants certainty. If I go to this networking event, is the result going to happen? Probably not the way you think it is. Donna Serdula: yeah, Isaiah Hankel: something else ~open up ~because you're around people, like Donna Serdula: ~yeah.~ Isaiah Hankel: around people, there's a certain level of trust you might be asked to do things, whether it's run for an office or do something else, ~uh, ~might be given a different job that you didn't even know is there. That's in the pipeline. It's not even posted. It can only happen if you go around people. Donna Serdula: You almost have to go without that expectation. It's almost like [00:14:00] trusting in the universe that something is going to happen. You know, I know that that rubs some people the wrong way, but I do feel that there's something to be said. It's almost like you have to just go and be open Isaiah Hankel: Intent matters. Yeah. Intent matters the way your perspective matters. Cause if you, just your reticular activating system, right? It's like, ~if you, ~once you buy a car of a certain type, you're going to see that car everywhere. How did that happen? Car was always there. ~Now you~ Donna Serdula: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: I used to, you know, every time like a comedian, like you see this comedian for the first time, this person's really funny. And then you see them everywhere because ~they've,~ they were always there. ~An actor, right? Sometimes you'll see an actor. You're like, I really like this actor. And you go~ Donna Serdula: ~Or, ~or is it Facebook and then the social media feeding you what they think you want to see? That too. Isaiah Hankel: you could be primed too. But I think, ~uh, I think there's. ~ If ~you have, if you're, if~ you're RAS is like, I'm going to be open to possibilities for this goal. I mean, why do you vision boards exist to this day? Because you see it all the time. You just start seeing other places, but if you're closed off and you think it can't happen to you, it probably won't. Donna Serdula: Yeah. ~And, ~and you know what I named my company? Vision Board Media. Isaiah Hankel: I was just thinking that when I was seeing your logo behind you. Exactly right. ~Yeah, that's exactly right.~ Donna Serdula: [00:15:00] Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: ~anyway, really good story. ~Opportunity comes to, to those who get out there, I guess. Donna Serdula: Yeah, ~you gotta, ~you gotta take that step. Gotta take that step forward. You have to claim what you want. You have to realize that sometimes you're the one. ~You know, ~and then ~you, you have to, ~you have to get out amongst people. ~I just, I don't think, ~I think you can do a lot of mass emails and postings, and I think that's great. ~And that's good. ~But I think we always have to realize that there's real people there. And the more we intermingle and the more we mix with them, good things will happen. So there we go. Isaiah, thank you so much for this great conversation. Isaiah Hankel: right. ~We'll see you again soon.~ Donna Serdula: All right. ~Bye bye.~ Isaiah Hankel: Next time. Bye.​ ​