Career Leadership 9/11 Donna Serdula and Isaiah hankel === [00:00:00] Donna Serdula : Hey, Isaiah. How you doing? Isaiah Hankel: Good. How you doing, Donna? Donna Serdula : I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I feel like we have so many things we could talk about. Isaiah Hankel: Okay. I'm ready. Donna Serdula : All right. I'm going to give you a rundown of the things that have been like, kind of like playing in my mind. All right. And you tell me which direction you want to go. So, very, very demure, very mindful. Have you been hearing about this? Isaiah Hankel: No. Donna Serdula : Oh, okay. So we'll talk a little bit about that. Then today is like 9 11. Isaiah Hankel: Yeah. Donna Serdula : I think there's some interesting things we can probe in there. The other thing I was thinking about is last night, there was the debate. And then this morning it was on the TV. And I said to my husband, I'm like, can we just turn this off? I just, I can't. And so that was the other thing I was thinking about when you're just living your life. Especially maybe you're in job search mode. Maybe you're just in that career leadership mode where you're, really thinking about your career and where you want to go. Is it okay to turn off and just say not right now? I can't. Isaiah Hankel: Well, I think you bring up a topic we haven't talked a lot about, which is how every, the newsification of [00:01:00] everything, including people in our space, Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: for sure. These topics are great. Whatever you want to do first. Donna Serdula : So the very demure, very mindful is a Tik TOK trend. And there is a, Oh, a lady out there who has gotten onto Tik TOK and she's doing this video where she's saying she puts on her makeup. to go to work, very demure, very mindful. And that's it. I don't know why, but the internet apparently loves it. it even penetrated my carefully curated space in which I try. it's a TikTok video. it's an Instagram reel, but it's this woman saying, when I go to know, and I'm going to work, I'm very demure. I'm very mindful. When I put my makeup on, I'm very demure, very mindful. Now, the thing is, I don't, I think it's a joke. I don't think she is very demure. We're very mindful, but yeah,it's kind of funny, I guess, but you know what?you know, that you're going to, we're going to hear it more and more. It will penetrate your sphere as it penetrated mine. And people who behave don't make history, [00:02:00] right? Isaiah Hankel: a leap. Yeah. But I think you bring up another thing that's been on my mind, which is entertainment. so if you look at people that are in like our space, Anybody's space, any business really, I think everything's been the newsification of everything, but also the, Everything's been turned into entertainment and those who do it well can really succeed in doing it. And I think AI is pushing this faster, right? Because remember, I don't know if you remember this like 10 years ago, like it was all about evergreen content. Like you want to write evergreen content because of like search engine optimization and people find it. And even people search for jobs. You want to write articles for your professional brand, but AI can produce evergreen content. AI can't do very as well is like entertain. Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: a video on TikTok or whatever, somebody being silly. Saying words that just come together in the right way. Some Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: sharing it, something happens and it's entertaining and that people want to be entertained. you can go back thousands of years. It will always rise to the top. if you look at the trends on social, on TV, like what's the most, It's usually a game of some kind, Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: of some kind. It's Donna Serdula : Or it's the oversimplification of. extremely in depth [00:03:00] information. and I think that's another, that's a something that I'm seeing a lot of. It's like, Oh, let me, let me just tell you how to do something huge in a, three step type of way. And it's, it is frustrating because I think it sets people up to this idea that, Oh, anyone can do this. It's super simple. It's really easy. I can do it. And then you fail and then they feel bad and they wonder why things aren't working. Isaiah Hankel: Yeah. There's Donna Serdula : it, Isaiah Hankel: side to it. Donna Serdula : Yeah, but the one thing that I keep thinking, though, with this demure and mindful, it does lead me to 9 11, which in a really weird type of way, all right, I know this is crazy,so when I hear this demure, this mindful, it's that responsible, it's doing the right thing. I remember on 9 11. reading how those who were in the second tower, many of them were evacuated after the first strike. And then the second tower, a lot of people went back up to get their work done. And so when the second hit occurred, Isaiah Hankel: Jeez. Donna Serdula : [00:04:00] were, so I remember this, I remember that All of these people went back up to continue their work to continue their work day. And I often, I remember thinking I would have done that too. Back then I would have, I really think I would have, I was at that time in my life where it was like, yeah, there's a smoldering building right next door, but there's work to be done. I'm going back up. I'm going because I want to be the good worker. And it's, I hope. I hope. I don't know if we have. I know there's a lot of people working from home nowadays, but those who are going to the, you know, going in, I really hope that we've, we've become much more healthier where those people would have been like, you know what? I think I'm going home. There's a smoldering building next door.let's not go back to work. Isaiah Hankel: There'sI want to say, there's this book, I think it's by Neil Strauss, called Emergency. There's this great book. Yeah, it is. Called Emergency by Neil Strauss. So this is essentially like the bystander effect. So you think, okay, this is just happening. here and you're you [00:05:00] compartmentalize like okay, everything's fine for me Like it's almost like you you're watching it on the news Even though it's happening in the building next door and it really comes down to just like vigilance Like you see people when somebody by somebody faints everybody just stands there and watches it because they think somebody else is Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: I'm gonna get an accident. Everybody just drives by because I think somebody else is handling and then you have those few people that will actually go. Wait a sec. Let me make a call. You see some weird behavior. Okay, let me make, so I think that's part of it too. Like having awareness, mindfulness, being Donna Serdula : Maybe not demure. not demure. I'm Isaiah Hankel: think Donna Serdula : fake. Isaiah Hankel: when I talk to people that are in the job market, for example, like, are you even aware what's happening contextually? Most of them have never read an economic report. They haven't gone to earnings calls of any of these companies. They're literally just like, where are the job boards? Okay, this looks like a good fit. Let me apply to this. They have no idea that half of the jobs, hosted aren't even there. They're not even filling them. They're ghost jobs. They have no idea if the company is doing well, not [00:06:00] doing well. And so there's, yeah, you're, they're very topical. And so I think what you're talking about almost in a sense, too, is, mindfulness is one thing. But I also think. Being intellectual is another thing, too. And if you are somewhat intellectual, and I think a lot of people listening to or watching this are, or consider themselves are, you can have the curse of knowledge and be oblivious to people who are not. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can go so deep that you can't even connect people that haven't gone that deep, can't go, or don't want to go that deep. So, you know, how do you connect with what you're saying right now to somebody who's just looking topically at job boards or doesn't even have a job, who is the person that just would prefer to watch social media videos? That's just what I always think of. It's like, how do you, how do you get those people to go deeper? And then how do you get the people that are really deep? To not lose sight Donna Serdula : Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really, really good point. I do think what you [00:07:00] said is so true for so many people. I need a job. It's almost transactional. They're not thinking deeply. I remember back early in my last, position as an employee. And I really, I, just shake my head at myself when I had gotten this role. Had I called the person I was replacing, had I called some other people who had worked there and asked, Is this a healthy environment? Is this a place where I'm going to, I want to plant myself and do good. Will I be supported? is this a winnable situation? didn't, I took everything at face value and, I look back and it's, to me, it's a learning lesson. It's something that I do try to teach, my clients, which is, you gotta do your due diligence. You gotta, you know, look at this strategically and you gotta prepare and make sure. That if you're making this leap, it's the right one. Don't just trust blindly. Isaiah Hankel: And I love that you brought this up because I'll [00:08:00] bring the reverse to that too. I think there's people that do too much due diligence. They don't start things. Because I'm sure you can identify with this in a sense. Like I always ask myself, You know how What was I doing just even starting a business? Like what was I even doing? Like if I knew how much hard work it was like what I had even started Like you would probably wouldn't even start if you would have done all your due diligence On the failure the other pain like right now in my life Would you stop everything that you're doing give up the entire platform the brand start a brand other one from scratch? without just going for it, which you probably did when you know when we were younger like I did think there's also this part of blind kind of boldness, which really is needed to do it because at the end of the day, you can do all the new diligence in the world, but you've got to actually take action on it. But at the same time, yeah, you, is not knowledge is power. So you have to get the insights to what's the balance, Donna Serdula : And hindsight's 20, 20, right? So you look back and you're like, wait, I gotta tweak some things. But when you're in the midst of that hurricane, it's, you're never going to catch that, that line of thought. it's a really good point. [00:09:00] So like, what's, what is the answer? I don't know. It's, it's striking that balance. It's doing enough, but don't get bogged down. It's yeah. Isaiah Hankel: counterbalance is great. There's a great book by Robert green.it's either like the 40 laws of power or the 33 strategies of war. He goes into so much detail on historical, from ancient Rome to Greece. Anyway, he talks about, in one of the chapters, I always remember it talks about the counterbalance strategy in a very simple way, right? So if, if you're really afraid and nervous to do something, you have to counteract that. being bold and thinking less, you just have to, and it actually balances out to where you're even in center. And if you're, and there's a great book to called the hour between dog and wolf. Donna Serdula : Oh, that sounds totally up my alley, Isaiah Hankel: between the 2008 financial crisis about. It's really about finance people and traders how they're winning and winning and winning like even hormones neurotransmitters They're surging and they feel invincible. That's when they make their biggest mistakes. you have to counterbalance it with being even more cautious I mean [00:10:00] Warren Buffett right be fearful when others are confident be confident or feel for whatever the exact quote is think it's all just about counterbalance So you have like I work with a lot of people who are Doctors, 15 degrees, great at studying, never had a job. And they're like, I, if I tell them, like, would you really need to do some due diligence, like deep, deep due diligence on these companies, already gone down that rabbit hole. I'm like, stop doing due diligence, get the job. You can correct later, like actually take some action, fill a sense of urgency. Whereas. know another demographic of people or a person in a different state emotionally when they're just keep going into the wrong job over and over you might be like, let's actually do some due diligence this time. Let's dig really deep talk to everybody at the company. So you don't make that same mistake. So it's all at the day. Everybody's a sample size of one really. So you got to kind of counterbalance. Donna Serdula : which actually then leads us to the third thing that I've mentioned, which is, is it okay to tune out? Like, is that a way of counterbalancing? Cause there's a lot of stress. Isaiah Hankel: Teach me how to do [00:11:00] it. I Donna Serdula : it's hard, one of, one of my favorite sales authors is Jeffrey Gittimer. And he read, he wrote the little red sales book and, there's a whole, he wrote a slew of books. I, I just, I adore this man. Um, yeah. Isaiah Hankel: these right over here. Donna Serdula : Yeah, Isaiah Hankel: Yeah. Donna Serdula : I actually met him in person. I was pregnant. I was at the NSA, the National Speakers Association conference that they had back in Philadelphia. And I, when I, saw him and I went right over and shook his hand and I started to cry because he had so impacted my life and I was pregnant and like full of emotions. But at any rate, he was an, he's just, he's a wonderful man. But he had said. in a number of his books, he says, you want to be great at sales, tune out of everything that's going to suck you dry. That's going to stress you out. you are focused in on your career, on your, your sales, what you're doing, your quota, your [00:12:00] people, your connections, your networking, that is your focus. Turn the TV off. And if you feel a need to turn the TV off, sit down. and read a book about sales. Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: It's really powerful. I mean, I read a book called, about these, uh, guys that won the gold medal for the, rowing. the double, like two, two people in, in, in the rowing. It's called, Assault on Lake Cas I think it's called. Anyway, I was in grad school and I read it. the whole book's about the singleness of focus that these Olympians have. Where they're just like, every day, that's it. And they talk about how it's so free. it's so freeing to be able to focus just on one simple thing, and to let everything else fall away. and when you do that, you're able, it's the only way you can hold all these puzzle pieces together, need to be held together for some great accomplishment because if you don't have that singleness of focus any puzzle That's worthwhile or beautiful. You're not going to be able to hold it together. Donna Serdula : And when you say this, I'm thinking [00:13:00] of business. I'm thinking of my business. I'm thinking of your business, your company. I think in the early days when I was first starting, I had that single, that singularity of thought. it was absolutely, how do I build this? How do I build the brand? How do I build the business? How do I create my methodologies? how do I completely just consume it? just be part of it. Totally. It gets harder, doesn't it? It gets harder as, you achieve that, but then you have to pull away because life does rear its head. Isaiah Hankel: It changes. you have other the puzzle changes, right? So you're gonna pull and you have a different picture that you're holding together, It's always a good lesson and there's always a counter side to that too because as people you're doesn't matter if you're looking for a job you're trying to get any gold today business owner You have to market things whether you're marketing yourself a business, whatever So you have to get people's attention and then so we're advocating for like for You have to be the person that is able to eliminate distractions [00:14:00] then you're in reality, trying to distract other people and become really good at that on your stuff, which helped them, you know, it's got to be the right person. So it's, and this is I, what I meant by the newsification of everything. You see a lot of people in our space, they are basically becoming, evergreen content is taken care of by AI, everybody comments on the news now, like everybody's doing the news. Everybody is, or whatever these companies are, even people, any sort of influencer, it's all news, news, news. Because That's the stuff that changes every day. That's how you keep people engaged. That's how you get them. And so they're, they're all becoming a curator of news for their right? it's a very, like a, it's a constant stream of opinion pieces for the news, which is very interesting to me. And there's so much of it. And this is why it's so hard back to your point to not be distracted. Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: not like you can just turn off the TV now. Like if you're going on to TikTok or social to do stuff, to look for a job or to do stuff for your business, It's all there. And it's not just stuff that's like, okay, here's like this evergreen content that I can go back to. It's like, this is [00:15:00] happening right now. So there's urgency. Like, hey, this happened today. Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: And then you're hearing it from all these other influencers that you're following on purpose. Donna Serdula : is that newsworthy? Is it going to lend, lend you a better life? Is it going to make you have better decisions? I think we do have to become choosy at what we consume. And I think we do have to decide how we want to dial in or dial out. And, I will tell you this. my phone was thrown, it was dropped. Isaiah Hankel: Okay. Donna Serdula : It broke. Those five days without my phone were glorious. Glorious. Isaiah Hankel: stressful at all. Donna Serdula : No, because, when I needed it, I went to my computer. I went to the laptop, but it w it wasn't constantly chirping at me. And I do think it takes a toll. When it's constantly chirping, Isaiah Hankel: I like this idea of, like a phone fast because you can have basically all your apps can be on your computer now. So maybe it wasn't possible,a while ago with the phone. And then most people are like, what about emergencies? Okay. I mean, look, when I was a [00:16:00] kid, like you'd run out all day that you can have a phone for emergencies. I'm not saying you shouldn't go out, but you could put like a spare phone in the car or something. Right. Just in case. But I really like that idea. I you know, most people will have multiple computers in their house at this point. I mean, a lot of people do, Donna Serdula : Google home devices, Alexis, they're all over the place now. Isaiah Hankel: if you just said, you know, I'm going to have or, you know, I also like this. I heard about this too, like putting all devices in one room. a device room and then every other room doesn't have it because you can walk over to that room. Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: That's really the only way to, I think, control focus at the level that you're talking about. And it can free you up fora lot of things. I installed an app, Rescue Time on all of my, devices. And it just shows you where you put all your time. And it is shocking how much time can add up. Just, you know, checking the news for two minutes. Thanks. Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: of times a day while you're waiting in line or while you're doing something else because you feel like you have to rather than and I try to put [00:17:00] it's habit to break like I try to put like blogs or like books on my phone instead and I'm like go to this instead Donna Serdula : Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: apps to close other apps or block them it's Donna Serdula : I have on my desktop, there's an app, it's a newsfeed blocker. So you could go to Facebook and you can check your messages. You can see if there's anything trending, but it blocks the newsfeeds so you can't do the scroll. And I wish I could get that on my phone as well because it's nice because you don't even realize. that you're going there. it's become so automatic. So to be able to block it, and then you have to go an extra step. You're like, wait, do I really want this? Or is this just me trying to get that hit of dopamine? So Isaiah Hankel: it's self mastery really at the highest level I do believe that because also and because we both help people get hired into careers I will also tell people that really have this kind ofmentality of block every notification email once a day I'm like throw all that stuff out the window for the job search and you need to be highly responsive Donna Serdula : yeah, Isaiah Hankel: all your notifications [00:18:00] immediately reply so what are you trying? What's your goal? Like, if I was working in the news and I was working on a morning show or something, like I'm having all my notes, I need to be the first one to see those articles pop up, but you need to actively choose them. So I would be like, I need to know every notification on LinkedIn. I have a separate email from my job search. Like those notifications are turned on because I know the person to them first will have a better chance of getting hired period. Donna Serdula : that is true. Isaiah Hankel: to, you have to choose. Donna Serdula : Well, it has been a great conversation. Isaiah Hankel: Very good. Donna Serdula : Thank you so much. Bye bye. Isaiah Hankel: That was great. ​