Breaking Barriers: Embracing Challenges and Growth === ​[00:00:00] donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: ~Start recording because we always get the good stuff right before we start recording. So we're going to, we're going to hit start and I think we're okay there. Alrighty. We're recording. ~Am I okay? I am. I am. That was a hard week. When was that? It wasn't this last week. It was the week before. Isaiah Hankel: Week before, yeah. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: my, my cousin passed suddenly. He was only 58 years old, only 58. it wasn't in any way expected. ~not in any way expected. And, um,~ Isaiah Hankel: Geez donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: ~he was at a, ~he was at ~his conference, ~his company's conference, and it was on his way back. ~Um, he, he passed, ~he'd gotten off the plane with his wife, his wife and his daughter had, had been visiting him at the conference. And it was fun. I was watching on Facebook, like all these great pictures of them having great meals and having fun. It was in Orlando. ~And, um, we, They, um,~ they landed in Chicago. They got in their car, they were driving home and he just, he started to go through all of those, ~uh, those, uh, you know, ~signs of a heart attack Isaiah Hankel: ... Hey, DVT. was able to get him into a fire station, ~uh, ~where they were able to then get him to the hospital. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: [00:01:00] But it turned out it wasn't a heart attack. It was an aortic rupture. Isaiah Hankel: Oh, geez. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: as soon as the doctors saw that it was an aortic rupture, they just ~sort of like ~stopped. They're like, there's nothing we can do. And he passed immediately. Isaiah Hankel: ~Nothing they can do.~ donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: ~There's nothing, nothing you can do at that point. So apparently if, if they diagnose you earlier, they can fix it. But when you're in that midst of the, you know, with it happening, there's, there's really nothing. If you, if you were a member of Three's company, John Ritter, that's what happened to~ Isaiah Hankel: ~Oh, yeah. Okay.~ donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: ~Yeah. So.~ Isaiah Hankel: ~I'm sorry. Geez. ~So everything got changed. ~So now,~ donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Yeah, ~everything, ~everything changed. And, ~uh, ~we were supposed to go on like a little mini vacation and I flew to Chicago to help, ~you know, but I mean, in some ways, like, so this is interesting, right about this experience. So, know, ~I get there and, you know, the company is, of course, ~you know. ~reeling. He didn't own the company. ~He was a, you know, ~he was an employee of that company, but he was a really big piece of that company. The company's reeling ~the, ~the people are, ~are, um, you know, ~everyone's in mourning. and now it's like, ~you know, trying to, you know, ~trying to figure out ~what, ~what happens, what comes next. And, you know, ~it's, ~it's interesting ~to see, ~to see a life, ~you know, Uh, and ~looking back at it he did so much ~for, ~for that company and ~you know,~ I wonder now looking back, would he have traveled as much as he did? ~know, he, ~he traveled probably 75, [00:02:00] 80 percent of his time and he'd been doing that for about 25 years Isaiah Hankel: wow. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: he had a great time. I know he, ~you know, he~ loved it, but ~you know, ~I think he was planning on a, a nice retirement of slowing down, know? Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: I think that's, that's always the question, right? I mean, I think everybody, everybody asks themselves that question every single day. Like is, is what I'm doing what I want to be doing. Is it worth it? What's the cost to it? I think, um, It's tough not to, but I don't know, you know, I always, I always think of the quote, what is it? You know, your, the goal is not to kind of safely tiptoe towards death, but, uh, Hunter Thompson, I think has a quote like that, but there's also other ones, Jack London, all kinds of, all kinds of people. So, so I think you kind of use what you need at the time. Yeah. Maybe never, you know, never travel and just spend all time at home with family and stuff is good for a while, but then you could also. See how if you looked at somebody's life who just did that and they [00:03:00] never chased anything never traveled you probably I feel just as Concerned for the people that have never traveled or gone and they have something inside of them So it's really hard. It's really hard to know what they're what there is So I don't even know and I don't necessarily think balance is the answer either in the traditional sense of balance because I mean, you'll never achieve anything great if you're balanced all the time, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Totally. Isaiah Hankel: So how do you, how do you decide, you know, you say, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: there's that quote, you know, women who behave don't make history. So Isaiah Hankel: yeah, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: think that could be true for everybody that doesn't even have to be a genderized, you know, quote. I mean, if you behave, if you do, if you play by the rules, you're not taking risks, you're not innovating, you're living quietly and tiptoeing through to death. Isaiah Hankel: I think you have to, I was, I forget who, who said, said this, but for whatever, everybody can say something in a different way that can resonate with a different type of person. I think it's, it was Ed Milet. I don't know if [00:04:00] you've heard of this guy. He does a big. Podcast now~ in the same kind of spaces, maybe like a Hooberman or a, um, Murray folio size of platform anyway.~ ~Right.~ donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: ~yeah.~ Isaiah Hankel: he talks about counting the cost. Like if you're negotiating, you can never achieve anything great if you're always negotiating the cost. Of what it takes to achieve that. Because if you're constantly in your mind, it's like, is it worth it? Is this worth it? Is it going to pay off? Is it worth it? I think we know as, as coaches, you know, this in people, if you're like, if you're always wondering, like they want to guarantee, like before I put in any effort, I want to know that my efforts going to pay off. I'll make it very practical for what you and I both do. If I'm going to spend effort targeting my resume, I want to know they're going to get back to me. Otherwise I'm not going to spend an hour or whatever it takes to target my resume anymore. I'm not going to do my LinkedIn profile unless I know that it's going to get me hot because people just, ~that's~ how they operate. So if you set a big goal for yourself, if you're negotiating the cost in your head, other people will negotiate the cost for you. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. Look what you're doing. You're killing yourself. You can't do this. And so if you're constantly thinking about the cost, it's really hard to ever get to whatever that is. So there is [00:05:00] a value, I think, in setting that goal and saying whatever the cost is. I'm going to go out and it can be different for anybody. Some people, that goal could be family, not traveling other people. The goal could be traveling in business. It just, it's, it's such an individualized thing. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: I, I even see that even in the most straight way of interpreting the quote, right? I mean, I've seen people who are cheap trying to save money and the amount of effort and energy and time Isaiah Hankel: I know. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: to save whatever it is, it, it doesn't really, it doesn't work. You know, makes sense. That's, it's, it is an interesting thought, ~you know, it really is.~ ~I mean,~ I, the same time, there's, I think you have to weigh it too,~ you know, like ~there's certain things you're not going to see an immediate response to, Isaiah Hankel: Sure. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: and, and so to really get too stuck on what is the outcome, what are the results, you know, what is that percentage, you know, even then you might be [00:06:00] wasting valuable time. Is Isaiah Hankel: the percent chances that, you know, my situation is going to work out. I'm like, well, it's either zero or 100. So it's, it's 50%. There, yeah, there's zero, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: percent if you don't fully decide to do whatever it takes to get it. But if you fully decide donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: mean, like Hemingway, right? You, a person can be, uh, uh, destroyed, but not defeated. So like, if you never give up, you can never be defeated. I, it's just a certain kind of mentality. Like I get, I get it. I just think there's a lot, like what you said is people, they. I think people have a hard time even understanding leverage. Like a lot of people don't even know that debt is also called leverage. ~Like, you know, they don't understand just general. And so I be, you know, ~so I work with people who have doctorates, et cetera, but there's different types of doctorates. So I'll, I'll give an example to somebody who's ~done maybe You know, they've~ done a different, like a PhD or a sidey or something. And I'll compare them to ~like ~an MD. I'll be an MD knows they're going to go into debt for like 200, 000. They know they're going into debt for that amount, [00:07:00] but they also know they're going to get like a 200, 000 job afterwards. So I'm like, if you're going to get a hundred thousand dollar job, or if you're going to get 150, 000 job, How bad do you actually want that job? Are you going to go into debt? 100, 000, 150, some of them can't even, won't even go into debt, uh, 2000, 5, 000. No, I mean, it's, it's crazy to think about it. And so we just, it's all a kind of a mindset~ of what some,~ I had the same thing when I wanted to get my first book published. I was like, wait a sec, I got to fly to go find these publishers. Like I have to go pay for networking events, pay for networking events, just to be around people, this makes no sense to me, like in my logical brain. I'm like, when did you first think about it? I'm going to pay to go hang out with people. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: You know, but then of course you're like, of course, I'm going to go pay to hang out with more exclusive people because there's no other way to crack in to industry. I mean, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: And there are some networking events that cost 25, 000, Isaiah Hankel: a plate donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: you know, to get into the right room with the right people. There is a Isaiah Hankel: Right. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: with it. I, you know, what you're saying is really, it's the investment, like, what are you willing [00:08:00] to invest? and I do believe that you have to invest in yourself. And I do believe it's the best payoff ever when you do. But I think for some people, it's maybe they're raised in such a way. Maybe they've just, they haven't seen enough people do it, but you do need to look at yourself and say, you know, how do, how can I better, how can I upscale? How can I educate? How can I brand? How can I like, what are the things that you can do to make yourself the best that you can be so you can tap into those opportunities? Isaiah Hankel: I agree. I mean, I think a lot of people, if you come out of a, a certain background, you kind of have the, you know, what's now called like the kind of the Dave Ramsey mindset, right? You ~just, you don't sit, you, you, you~ don't spend, you don't take on any debt. You don't do it. You just. Okay, it'll get you to a certain point, but then once you get to that certain point, you know, if you want to start a business, if you want to really make bigger investments, let's say, even [00:09:00] if you want to invest in something that's very traditionally stable, like real estate, whatever, like, of course you're going to have to take on some sort of debt. So I think, I don't know, like for me, I'll give you a ridiculous story. I was, uh, so when I grew up, we grew up like poor, I mean, for like, like this country, poor, like, you know, we had, uh, My parents went bankrupt. We had, uh, cars got repoed different stuff like, like, uh, you know, when it was the worst, there was like, you know, soup kitchen, stuff like this. So you, which is the best experience ever in one sense, because you're a kid, no idea, kids are so like, you're just like, okay, I'm doing this today. No matter, but you look back and it, you, it keeps you in more of a growth mindset, but it also holds you back. Cause you have limiting beliefs. So like, I, I was like the last person that I knew friends, whatever, to, to Even like think about owning a car or leasing a car or whatever. Like I would literally borrow cars like ~to, to Rick, as~ I had this thing as a kid of my parents car getting repo, wherever I was like, I can't do this. Like [00:10:00] I had this very poor mindset, so I never allowed myself to even consider doing that. Like, seriously, I would rent car. Like I would, I would find deals to rent a car repeatedly. With the, like for two to three weeks at a time. And now I turn it in and get another car rental because I did not, I was so scared to like buy or lease a car. And then I finally bought a lease and I'm like, this is the stupidest thing ever. It's actually overall cheaper for me to do this, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Mhm. Isaiah Hankel: you know? And then when I bought my first car, of course you can sell it, whatever else. And so I just didn't have the money. I mean, it seems like a dumb example maybe, but it's an easy way where something can be very basic. For certain people, like, of course you do this and then the car can actually take you to different things and to get clients or to go to your job, whatever. But you can have a real limited mindset. And so you just got to really probe yourself to say, where are my limits? Like, where, where am I saying? I can't go to that conference. I can't do that. I, I, there's no way for me to find a way to, you know, there's, there's no way for me. I can't gain any more money or income. There's no way. I'm like, [00:11:00] really? Like, have you ever heard of labor ready? Like go down at 5am to labor ready in your local town and go move some cement blocks. Like, there's always a way to actually do it, but we have these kind of limitations. And so I think, Anyway, I think thinking about what your limitations are can be really helpful because if you approach things from a possibility mindset, right, you just, you're going to be more creative in solutions. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: You know, I was just talking to a coach last week and he, he, he walks his clients through radical forgiveness. Have you, have you ever heard of radical forgiveness? Isaiah Hankel: Yeah. I've heard of this. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: And he said how you almost have to go back through your life. And if you find yourself in a traumatic ~where, you know, a~ moment in time, ~will continue ~and you don't heal emotionally from it. You will continue to experience it over and over and over again in different ways. And many times you yourself are, are navigating towards it, that calamity to experience it again and again. Isaiah Hankel: Hmm. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: the idea of this radical. Forgiveness is you need to [00:12:00] figure out, you know, you don't even need to get to the core, but you've got to identify like a moment in which this has occurred. And then you need to, you know, forgive yourself, accept it, you know, go through whatever the healing mechanism is. once you do that, all of the instances heal. And you can now be free of it. Isaiah Hankel: Yeah. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: I think it's a, I think it's an interesting concept. I mean, I hear you talking about it and in some ways it was, you had, you experienced that with your parents, the car situation, and you probably were experiencing it in other ways as well. But once you can get to it, you can heal it, then you can move beyond it. But I think for a lot of people, they don't even, they're blind to it. And so they keep reliving it over and over in these blocks over and over and over again. So. ~But in some ways, I think once you recognize, maybe you are, maybe you are caught in these patterns and I'll tell you this,~ do you journal, Isaiah? Isaiah Hankel: Yeah. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: I journal. to me is such a huge, huge piece of my life and in processing. When you go back into your old journals, at least for [00:13:00] me, I've found that there's a lot of cyclical. experiences. And, and so what I, what I hear you saying, what I, I, I do believe it's, it's, you have to, what is the block? And like, why don't you want to go to that networking event? Why don't you want to invest in your, in your future? Maybe did someone say to you early on that you're not deserving? Isaiah Hankel: Are you afraid? donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: are you afraid? Like what, what, what, what, like really drill into it. And you may even find that this happens over and over and over again. Isaiah Hankel: Sure. No, I love that. I think, and I think the only way to heal that or to get past it is you have to actually do it. I think most of it is tied to fear of losing an identity. So identity is so powerful. You know, the forgiveness stuff is if you keep going back to whatever that is, you're going back to the identity that's comfortable for you. Like, so for me, figuring out what that I identity was, like if your identity is [00:14:00] You know, you're a poor person. If your identity is, I don't have, I can't afford that. I can't afford that. Right. That's the, one of the worst things you can possibly say out loud, even your family around you, ~everybody, ~I can't afford, they can't afford it. You know, you gotta go, you gotta go stretch yourself to, to see and be around things that are higher and better and find a way to find, be around people who can afford that. And it's not just a money thing, but it also could be a health thing. You know, I'm just not healthy. I just have a slow metabolism, right? You hear these kinds of things. But so I think changing the identity is, is really the most important part because Those trauma moments, they lock in that identity. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: So if you have that, you, you know, you, you have a traumatic moment of, of health. You have a traumatic moment of being poor. You have a traumatic moment in a relationship, and then you find yourself just gravitating back to that identity. It's the weirdest thing, right? It's like somehow comfortable, but it's like the worst thing for you. I just, I'm the kind of person where relationships don't work and you just find yourself coming back to that over and over because that's your identity. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: And so doing the new and, and so it's very scary to change your identity.[00:15:00] donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: And it's uncomfortable Isaiah Hankel: Yeah, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: feeling. And you're, and you're in these moments where you're like, I feel like a poser. I don't, I Isaiah Hankel: yeah, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: This is not who I am. Isaiah Hankel: right, right, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: and we all are, are, you know, we've been, we hear about authenticity all the time and you do feel it inauthentic, you know, when you're, when you're there and ~you hear~ people talk about the imposter syndrome, maybe, maybe that's you in flux. Isaiah Hankel: Thanks. Sure. of course. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Maybe it's, it's, you're getting closer to the new you, but those feelings you have to, you have to sort of let go and embrace it for what they are. Embrace and let go at the same time. I know that sounds insane, but you know, you recognize, Hey, I can stay in this, in this moment a little bit longer, maybe I will get used to it and maybe it will start to feel natural and authentic. Isaiah Hankel: ~Yeah,~ I was just last night talking to somebody, uh, named Swati. She got hired like her third job in industry has a, has a [00:16:00] doctorate, but had to look at different jobs because of how tough the job market is. Right? So she had these other jobs that she was interested in. She said like these recruiters and hiring managers kept telling me like, you can do this job. You can do this job. She's like, I can't do this job. I've never done this job. Yeah. And I'm listening to this. I'm like, Oh my God, this is like, this is our problem. Like we'll have other people be like, go do this. You can do this. We want you to do this. We see these skills in you and we can still say, Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. So I think there's always the fear, you know, it's, it's the fear of failure, which is the easy one to identify, but also the fear. Of success, which I think is a little bit misleading. It's really just the fear of being in that uncomfortable place where you're a new person and you're being judged by others who might think, who do you think you are? Right. Or, you know, and then you're nervous because you're learning it for the first time. So it's just discomfort. That's all it is. Yeah, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Hmm. a lot to unpack. That's a lot of good stuff, though. I, I, I think [00:17:00] to, to those who are listening, it's, it's, it's taking that moment, right, to sit quietly and maybe even journal a little bit and, and, and to start to recognize what's, what is holding you back? What are those fears? And you know, what do you want? Like, like really envision that. I think in some ways that can be the thing that leads you down the path because if you don't have that vision of where you want to go or what you want to do, you're not, you can't create that path to get there. So maybe the first step really is, you know, allowing yourself to envision that goal where you want to go. Figuring out what are those roadblocks and, and, and recognizing, you know, as much as we want to say, Oh, it's society. Oh, it's other people. Oh, like remove those excuses and say, what, what's really stopping you? Is it something internal? Isaiah Hankel: I think, yeah. And I think it is, I mean, it's funny you said the external stuff. Internal is, is [00:18:00] I would say it depends on internals where it has to start, but then you have to know once you get the internal pieces, right. And you actually start putting her out there. There are external factors, mainly people that you have to just start caring less of what other people think. And you just got to cut yourself off from the people that. Are telling you, you can't do it. Cause I really, I see this all the time. Like a lot of people, they, they have something inside of them. They know they can do more. They want to do more, but they're really concerned about how they're going to look. And I mean, you know, it might be different for you and I, cause I think once you start a business or get out there, like you've faced a lot of haters at a totally different level that most people can't even fathom because you're just, it's, you're more public. Just like any, the more public somebody becomes, the more. It dials up, donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: Yeah. Isaiah Hankel: but I think you have to accept that too. Like a lot of people have a hard time with it. Like you might have to cut off ~some~ people. You might have to not care at all what that person thinks for you to go and do something like you might not have to care about what other people think for you to get into a job that's better than the job they're getting into for you to [00:19:00] leave the work and get into a role for you to go after your goal for you to get into be healthier than the people you're around. They're not going to like that. And so they're ha you have to get used to that and you have to, you know, Allow yourself to feel some sort of resentment or whatever from other people. I think a lot of people don't talk about that a lot. They talk about generally like haters, whatever. But today that's the biggest thing you want to, you want to do something new and you start putting yourself out there to do it. You're going to have to get past yourself. And then you're going to have to get past. Right. The other crabs trying to pull you back. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: ~A lot of truth there. Um, that, that pot of the boiling water with the crabs in it and, and they keep pulling each other down. I mean, that's such a, I, I've, I've heard that explained to me so many times and, and it is true and, and it's, it's looking around and, and, and recognizing it because that's the other thing.~ ~Sometimes you think, Oh, this person has my best interests at heart and they're helping me or they're warning me. Um,~ Isaiah Hankel: ~even an adage. Like the crabs actually do that in real life. That's how it came. And man, I got, what was this? There's a, there's something they've done. ~There's different types of experiments~ a lot. So they've had a group of, they've done experiments~ with primates where they, the primates climb up pole to get a banana at the top, but they do like something with like a mild electrical shock every now and then. And so the, the primates learned that there's an electrical shock and eventually they stopped going to get the. Bananas. And then eventually when one tries to climb up to get the banana, the others pull it down and then they do this for like generations of the primates. And so it gets to the [00:20:00] point where nobody's experienced the shock at all, they're all new primates. And when somebody tries to climb up at the pole to get the banana, they all pull them down and they, nobody lets them down. Them try to get the banana. And so that's, what's can happen generationally, you know, generationally families, groups of friends, communities. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: yeah. Isaiah Hankel: Um, and so I think that's all intertwined because you're going to have to make a decision for yourself and your own life. What's best for you, you know, going back full circle, whether that's traveling as much as you want for your life. How, you know, staying, staying home with family, getting a certain type of job, not getting it, pushing yourself to live a higher lifestyle in terms of health or wealth or whatever, that all has to start from within. And then you have to understand it's going to be a bit of a battle against external forces for you to live the life you want. donna-serdula_1_06-27-2024_094434: But it is possible. It is absolutely possible. Isaiah, thank you so much for this conversation. This was awesome Isaiah Hankel: Thank you Donna. ​ [00:21:00]