Danny Ray Right about here, ladies and gentlemen, I want you to get yourself, your soul together. Chris Are you ready? I said, are you ready? It's time for the Chris and Andre Show. Andre All right, ladies and gentlemen, we haven't been recording. We have had life happening, all types of good stuff. Chris has been redecorating his his podcast set up like every other week, I guess, doing a lot of travel. But yeah, if you've ever listened to some of our earlier episodes, I have this, I wouldn't call it a love hate relationship with some technologies, some technologies I just don't like. And I think I kind of went out the gate early on one called Docker, because it just I couldn't but I have found myself in recent weeks using more and more Docker containers, and not so much hating Docker. Chris So I think to provide a little bit of background on this topic, when we were working at D zone together Andre. That was right around the time, I guess that Docker really kind of blew up in terms of popularity. And Andre just did not understand. It's like, great. It makes he can do containers like but it was, everybody wanted to put everything inside a Docker container. It was like, just because you could, even though it served no actual purpose, and so I think that spawned a lot of your initial pushback. It's like, Sure, use it where it makes sense, but it is not. The end all be all of technologies that's going to solve all of our problems, right? Andre It was so obnoxious. So our CI CD pipeline, or continuous integration continuous deployment pipeline was pretty solid. And we had a lot of, you know, our load balancers were efficient, all the good things. We had all the things done the right way, and somebody suggested we should put it in to a container. And I was like, Why the hell would you do are you some kind of moral Why would you do that? Yeah, you wouldn't like, he like, there, there are, I can think of some use cases. Let's say you're running Postgres on a Docker container, so you don't pollute your whole system. Okay, you're just not changing the ports. But to put entire like applications like our particular website and product that we sold. Did it need a Docker container? It just would? I don't think it would. I don't think would function properly, but I can see isolating like a database for certain instances, and probably some other like Redis, a Redis server, I could see, like isolating those because they will pollute your system, but you can get to them from a port, so, and I don't want to go into like, the weeds, but it Just didn't make any sense. And it was like, put a container inside of a container in a container. Chris Insert Xzibit meme here. Andre I hear you like containers. So what are you using? I guess two things. First, what kind of brought you around on Docker, like, what? What helped you or caused you, I guess, to re examine it. And then two, what is it that you like about it? And I guess three, what are you using it for? So that's two questions in three parts, just to be clear. Yeah, so you got to make sure I answer them all the the what I like. Let me start with what I like about it. And I kind of alluded to this before. Sometimes when you're like, installing an app, some open source application, or even some production ready applications, it asks for it. There's a lot of dependencies. And I like to keep my servers pretty sterile. And when you start installing Redis and installing this, installing that, there's extra components. I don't necessarily want to be like part of. My World. I just something needs it, so let it stay with that thing that needs it. And if I don't want to use it again, I can get rid of it. And I experience it a lot with Arch Linux when I've since moved away from being a hot router with Linux, because I'm like, Yeah, I can't maintain this server with this crap on here, because I'm losing my mind. So the the ease of keeping things in, for lack of a better word, a container, and it doesn't interfere with the rest of this of the server or the system, is brilliant. And so I like that part, and I have found there are a lot of open source projects like I have a I'm using a tool called arcane to manage the Docker containers because I don't, I haven't made the time to become like a Docker Pro and memorize all the commands to when I want to get rid of a container and prune it and get rid of all the leftover stuff. So arcane makes it fairly easy for me to do that. And I have, I think, at last count, whether it's the local servers I have here or the ones I have running remotely, I have about eight servers running, and it's really easy for me to spin up an instance of something. So as opposed to configuring multiple different environments and multiple different packages and programs to work with a thing, I can just install a container and deploy it and, boom, I've got the thing I want to use. So whether that's Docker, I mean, whether that's arcane, whether that's a discourse server, which is a forum platform, whether it's my own private get instance on a, you know, remote server, having like a container experience allows the developer to kind of live through that works on my machine, and now it should work on your machine. It eliminates some of the setup and trial and error to actually get some of these cool tools to work. So that's what I that's what I enjoy about it. I'm not a Docker Pro, so there's that, but I know enough about Docker to I've built a couple containers, you know, in the past, but I don't deploy my own software in Docker I will use other things, and if it's available for me to use in a Docker container, one of the tools we're gonna look at tonight is actually running on a running in a Docker container on one of my personal servers. So yeah, nice was that all three of the parts? Chris Yeah, I think, think that was all three, yeah. Andre So, yeah, it's like any technology, I kind of feel the same way about AI. It's a they're good utilities, but they're not the the panacea that people think they are. And it's just not a thing AI. And I don't, I wish it was a better term to use an AI, but there's not, because then it becomes, it becomes just like my personal preference. They're not bad tools, but they're not going to, I don't think they're dramatically going to change the world. So yeah, that's kind of how I felt about Docker. And it's true, it's there's a use for it. It's just not for everything. Chris So yeah, I mean, there are, I have found several good uses for, you know, certain forms of, I guess, AI, I think, primarily for checking over stuff that you've already created. You know, like, if I've already written something and asking it to kind of review it and whatnot, then I think it does a pretty good job. Asking it to generate something from absolutely nothing is a lot riskier, I think, of an endeavor at least right now, and, yeah, I don't know it's like, it's so many of the things that it just, it isn't artificial intelligence, right? But we've just lumped them all into basically, like, like, deep fakes are considered a form of AI, which I don't understand, because it's not like they the deep fakes themselves, aren't smart, right? Like they're not like none of this stuff is thinking for itself in any way, shape or form. All it's doing is regurgitating based on the inputs that you've already given it. So. Andre I, I... Chris I feel like it was a race to get to AI right, like the the concept of AI, and so the moment that we felt like we were even remotely close, somebody was just like, "We'll just call, call it aArtificial Intelligence. I mean, that's practically what it is!" Andre Well, I think that's partially true. I do think, I definitely believe it's a bubble. It's not creative, to be quite honest with you, it is a very useful execution of llms, and I'm okay with that, but you're right. But I also see the I see some jobs going away, like, I'll take copywriters, for example. I think generally that most copywriters won't go away, but the ones that do probably weren't like the best, right? And I think copywriters will pivot more into editing and steering the now I will also say, as I'm saying, this, sometimes you spend more time like steering the agent to do the thing that you could have just done it yourself so Chris Well, but according to all of the YouTube video ads that I see, I just need to take a three week course to learn how to prompt these tools to give me. So that way, I'm an expert on AI prompting, because that's going to be a required job in the future. Andre I don't think so. Chris Yeah, neither do I. Andre Yeah, I think that's that's not true. I don't I obviously enjoy technology, but I think that, you know, I was looking through my YouTube feed today, and everything is a course, everything is a gimmick, everything is a it's like people cater to the algorithm. And I think that's pretty sad. But I also think that back to AI, back to Docker, it's the same problem, right, where you have a useful technology, the wrong people amplify it, and then it gets blown out of proportion, and then years later you can actually see the usefulness of it. Now has Docker gone away? No. Has it really improved? Not so much. Is it a useful technology? Yes, but was it the promise that was given in the beginning? No, I kind of feel the same thing about what will happen with AI. Tammy You know, she's probably using AI on him. Jocelyn Wait, AI, like,"As if"? Tammy Yeah, "As if." Jocelyn Oh, my God, Tammy I know Zeke You two are making me feel smart. Andre It's so bad. Like, for example, I saw like, a couple thumbnails. "Let Claude generate your website for you in minutes." Get out of here. Ain't gonna happen. It's, there's, I guess the best way to put it is the ability to automate and produce things has increased, but the usefulness of the things that we automate and produce is diminishing. Chris Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, the things that AI I keep, just assume anytime that you and I say, AI, we really have quotation marks. Bob Belcher What did I tell you about finger quotes? Gene Belcher Not to "do them," but ironic detection is great. Nothing needs anything! Chris But any I feel like a lot of the problems that AI is solving are not problems that we necessarily needed to solve. It's kind of like Tesla with the door handles. It's like, look, we turn it into an electronic button. And it's like, okay, what happens in a fire? Well, in a fire, you can access this hidden panel that's three panels down, and then that way you'll figure, you know, Oh, and did you know that the new ones only have front door releases, not back door releases. So if your kids get caught in the back then you're borked, like... Andre Yeah, we have spent a lot of time looking for, like, you know, problems to solve. Chris Seriously. Andre That aren't really problems, but I do see the... Chris And yet, there are so many problems that are right in front of our face that we just refuse to address. Andre Yeah, that's not important enough. I saw this video today speaking of like Tesla and AI, I guess Corpus Christi is running out of order, yeah. And what I what I'm concerned about this is not a political statement. Is like, when do we get to a point where we produce things that are actually helpful for people, the environment, and I don't know, possibly society. Now, I don't want to blame all the the lack of order on data centers, because I'm sure that's unfair, but it'd be worthwhile to probably have some decent desalination plants, because eventually we're gonna need them, just like in places. Chris No. I mean, that's a that's a great point, and it's, it's not, I don't see the problem going away, right? Like that problem is only going to be made worse by the increased production of data centers and the worsening climate change, you know? Like, that's all Andre The issue is climate change. It's not data centers. Yeah, once, once. And if the market crashes, we won't be having this conversation anymore, Chris Yeah, which I think it feels like we're getting closer and closer to that moment. You know, because I feel like a lot, I feel like with the way that things are going financially, in the financial markets, and just globally, that the investment in all of those data centers starts to look a lot riskier, and that people are going to want to start pulling their money out of those as soon as they can. Andre Yeah, I don't, I don't see a real upside to, like, I don't think there is a race in AI, like to be honest with you, I think that is just, I'm sorry. Chris So you're saying AI is color blind? Michael Scott because I am color blind. Chris Yeah, no, I know what you mean. Though there's, there's not really. It's well, I'll let I'll let you finish. There's not a race in AI. What do you mean? Andre I just don't, yeah, I think it's just market hype and it's all about market cap, and there's no real intrinsic value to what they're doing. That's okay. I'm not hurt by that, but what I am concerned about is that people lose their jobs. You know, could it mean that they're less marketers? Possibly, I think there's some, there are some fields that may get... Chris How would that make you feel, Andre? If there were less marketers? Andre Part of me, part of me kind of wouldn't be upset, but I think that part of it for me is that we need some more evolution in our job market, and we need to probably cull some of the the oversaturated markets in job fields, but at the same time, the tricky part is creating new jobs and or, you know, having skill transfers. And I don't know how we how we accomplish that. Chris Yeah, because you can't do the culling without having the I mean, well, you can, but ideally you would have a system in place to help transfer the people who lose their jobs into the new, whatever the new technology or new area of growth is projected to be. And I don't, I don't see that. Andre We've we've been, I've said this countless times. We don't pivot. Ross Geller Pivot! Pivot! Pivot! Pivot! Andre We just kind of react, and that's a bad habit. Chris So when we've been doing a lot to I mean, not only react, not even just react, but like to, in some ways, proactively work against ourselves for the future. You know, I mean, like, the defunding of education across the United States and at the federal level has significantly impacted, I think our ability to to to pivot, right? I mean, we're not seeing the types of, I think, innovations and stuff, because we're also not helping to produce that. Andre Well, I with that. I think it's bad that we're defunding education and and we as a country, we perform so poorly compared to other. Like developed countries, but I I also think that we are sending our children to college in hopes of getting a job that may not be here in five years. Chris So yeah, and we've been doing that for a while now, right? Yeah, and then probably since at least 2008 Andre Yes, I would Yeah, right, yeah. Chris I mean, I know for me, right, when I was growing up, it was, if you want a good job, you got to go to college. It doesn't really matter what you go to college for. It's more just to show that you can sit there for four years and put in the effort and, you know, good networking and all this stuff. But really, it's just about completing your four year degree. That's all you really need, and then you can go do whatever you want. It's like, well, what kind of wonky stuff is that? Andre That's not, that's not a system. Chris That's a horrible system skills that you're not going to apply at all. And, you know, I mean, I think, what the, I guess now, having been, you know, working for as long as I have in, like, the kind of more professional, non, like, retail side of things, you know, I think I've recognized, or I recognize that, yes, there are some base level skills that you have to have to enter the job market, but most of what you're going to need to know are things that you should be taught By the place hiring. Yeah, and so that that whole idea of like, oh, well, you need a degree, or you need all these years of experience is not really true. It's more about like, How well can you learn and apply what you learn, you know, to the job that I'm giving you? Andre Yeah, I Chris to me like the education system should be more focused on providing that foundational level of the ability to learn and then, you know, take that and apply it, then it should be on learning very specific facts or skills. I don't know. I mean, yes, there are some skills, right, like carpentry or, you know, like, I think the trade skills and stuff like that, there are definitely and doctors, obviously, you know, where, yes, you need some formal kind of education on some of those things. But I think a lot of the other stuff that most people do on a day to day basis for their work doesn't necessarily require all of that, and so Andre people that are not doing jobs based on their degrees, like that is a very common occurrence. It's pardon my sniffles allergies, but, yeah, I don't have a solution for I do, but I don't think our country is bold enough to do it. I mean, I do think as a country, we should borrow things that work in other countries, as I've talked about before, Germany's got a pretty good hand alone thing, most of Europe has a pretty good handle in education, and they are subsequently ranked higher than we are. Well, now that you have the education, how do you pay for it? Is a question that I often think, well, actually, we were talking before about car loans, like, yeah, 100 months is crazy, yeah. Chris So you sent this to me earlier today, when we were chatting, and I had not heard the news that they're now proposing 100 month car loans. This on the back of the 50 year mortgage that was thrown out. I believe earlier this year I took out, I believe I took out a 60 month loan for my car, which was a lot longer than I mean, is ideal, right? That used to be normal. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's relatively normal. That is, you're right. So, yeah, I just can't, I can't even imagine, though, like, and you're the article you sent said the average car payment is up to $750 a month. That is. Ludicrous, like, how, how our how are people paying for that? Andre I don't, I don't know. I think that we've talked about this before the the United States stopping, like most American car companies? Well, there's only two. They have stopped making sedans. It's all crossovers and pickup trucks and SUVs, so you have a higher profit margin vehicle as a bulk of what can be sold. The used car market is stagnant and but there's a lot of inventory there. So what if, collectively, if people stop buying new cars, right? Would that force a reset that that could potentially drive down prices? I don't I don't know, but yeah, I I saw a video a while ago where people were, like, bragging that their car payment was $1,200 a month. I was like, bro, but what are we doing? What are you driving? Like, yeah, granted, the a new vehicle. The last time I checked the average new vehicle was between $46-50k, which is insane. Chris yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it is crazy when you think about how expensive cars have gotten, you know, and that, you know, nobody is really incentivized to make a, you know, like a reasonably sized, reasonably priced car. Andre China has. Chris What? Yes, China. Andre When I was in Mexico, I saw a ton of Chinese cars. I was in Peru, saw a ton of Chinese cars. I'm not saying like actually, I am saying it, we should open up the Well, part of me doesn't want to say that, because when we, when you give up those, those types of products, you kind of weaken your country. But, man, in Mexico, I would say nine out of 10 cars are Chinese. In Peru, I would say probably 60% of the cars are Chinese or Japanese. We kind of dropped the ball in that as a country, to be quite honest with you. So again, the American car companies are trying to, I guess, you know, make up the difference here in the States. Chris Well, is it? Am I wrong in understanding that a lot of that has been kind of incorrectly incentivized by government programs around fuel efficiency and stuff like that, right? Andre And we made an agreement not to talk about politics, but so we will skirt the edges, but to... Chris I mean, that's something that we should, it feels like that's something that could be relatively easily fixed, right? You just correct that. Or, you know, I mean, I, I hate to really matter whatever you do to try and incentivize the companies they're going to take advantage of it and do the wrong thing so Andre well, it's easier for them to sell a larger vehicle with that doesn't meet any type of EPA regulations and or fuel economy regulations. And I'm not pro regulations, but I think that we should do things that help us collectively as a country, to improve one would, one would assume fuel efficiency. Chris I mean, imagine if, if we had more fuel efficient vehicles, or had invested more highly in, yeah, you know, in non fossil fuel energy alternatives, and we're in the middle of a fucking war. Sorry. Sorry, not politics. But anyways, Andre I just paid 472 for gas like last week. Yeah, and I'm not in California, my car just, I mean, takes premium and poor decisions have got me spending, like, a lot extra. Well, I need gas, but damn, yo, what are we doing? Chris See, when I was up in Detroit, it. Was 425, really, yeah, and then they said it gone up almost $1 there, since Andre poor decisions, yep, poor decisions. Yeah, we're not going to talk about politics. I don't want Chris to something else that we had talked about a while ago that was very popular on the audio only version of the podcast, which I thought was hilarious, was a budgeting tool. You need a budget, right? YNAB, and we basically like walked through the beginnings of it, and kind of explained how to get set up and what some of the like features and benefits and whatnot are. And I think that was something that you had talked about, not specifically YNAB, but the subject of budgeting that you wanted to cover again tonight. And it sounded like you had maybe a tool specifically to show Andre us, yeah, it's actually all right. So let me give some background here. IVs. You need a budget, since it was a spreadsheet, and this is some years back, so I would say too early or early, 2000s so I use it for a very long time. I've watched the company grow, and my subscription is up for renewal in April, and I was on the fence this year about, Do I keep it? And the reason being is more based on principle, I don't. All right, let me say this to this caveat. It's probably one of the best tools out there for people that are not like me, who are going to set up a server like I believe that envelope based budgeting, or zero based budgeting, however you want to call it, is probably the best way to get your finances under order or in order. So I do think it's a good tool. My concern is, long term, do they continue to add features that make it worth the price. And I'm starting to question that, I but I do think it's a great tool. The second part to that is build or buy. For the 1,000,000th time I actually create software. I love to do that, and I was like, before I start writing a line of code, the question I ask is, do I build it or do I buy it? And are there good alternatives out there? Will it be worth my time? Well, YNAB is so good that there are a lot of competitors, and a lot of those competitors are either former users of of you need a budget that have the skill to create a competitor, and most of them are pretty, pretty good. Well, the one thing I was thinking about build or buy, and I decided not to build, because it's a saturated market, and there are a lot of good alternatives out there. Well, I came across actual, actual budget, which is in for all intents and purposes, fairly cheap. If you're a solo user, one person, you're not married, and it's just you. You can store everything in your browser. I wouldn't recommend that, but you could, if you're the type of person that slightly they have an option called where you can install it onto a server from Peak a pods. It costs you, like, a buck 20 a month, right? So that's fairly reasonable, because you need a budget, subscription is like a little bit over $100 a year. So you could and they have instructions on how to do it. You can spin it up, and you're still spending a fraction of what it would cost to have you need a budget, and it supports the developers to kind of keep building it and making it better. So what I'm going to do this year is the money that I was going to spend on my subscription, not all of it, but part of it is donate it to these developers, because I want to support good development. So that's a little bit of the background. But actual budget is very, very for somebody that you use union budget for a long time, it's very, very familiar to me. I'm going to share my screen. It looks very for those of you watching on on the old youtubes. It looks. Very familiar to you. Need a Budget, and if you've ever used that, this should seem very familiar to you. One thing I I do enjoy about it is the reports are a little bit different, and that you can nerd out on the numbers and make charts. So like, for me, that's like a big bonus. But let's, let's walk through the most important stuff. Okay, here you have all of your accounts. So if you're looking like 20,000 feet up in the air, you just want to say, how much cash do I have in this demo budget, and what am I going to do with it? Well, the first thing you want to do is start with your opening balances. So you can start one of these programs any day of the week. Just go to your bank, get the starting balance, or your available balance for that day, and you put in there, you create the account. Here's the starting balance, and here I said, Well, I got paid on this day, so call that income. So I have my starting balance of $1,500 I got paid on this day 4k and that is where part of the magic begins. I will say that I've, I have, you can do bank imports, but I have found that I actually like entering transactions manually, because it keeps me in tune with, like the transactions, right? And psychologically, I don't want to have to enter a lot of transactions. So I kind of it just, it's like one other thing. But let's look over the budget itself. And one thing I that's important to know is that when you're doing a budget, you should basically budget the money you actually have, not money you plan on having in the future. So when you get paid. You budget it. So let's walk through the categories savings, because if you heard the other podcast or the other episode, one thing I believe is that your personal budget is like if you run a company, and your company should make a profit, but before your company makes a profit, you should pay your employees well. My number one employee of my personal company is me, so putting money in savings is important to me, so I put savings at the top. Then I have a food group, groceries and dining out. Why would you separate them? Well, I separate them because I don't eat out every day because, I mean, and if you start to track your expenses, you realize that, Oh, crap, I'm spending $700 a month and in restaurants and Starbucks and whatever, yeah, well, that's not money well spent, right? So if an $8 coffee can go towards buying, you know, a cup of container coffee costs 20 bucks now, because we're like inflation, that same container coffee makes me way more $8 coffees and I get at Starbucks. So I'd rather do that. Utilities. I'm a big fan of keeping utilities on, like close to the top, because, you know, you got to keep the lights on. It's no good if the lights are out. Housing, another important thing, rent or mortgage doesn't matter. You know, you pick whatever it is for you, transportation, health like health care, expenses, your eye care. I wear glasses. It's important to me, your insurance. And the things I keep it towards the bottom of the list are the are the lower priorities? That's just basically what it boils down to me, because if I'm, if money's tight, maybe I don't need life insurance, you know, I keep the, you know, I just cut that off for a while, until I can get back on my feet, unfortunately, fun stuff, like a vacation, yeah, it's, it's not a priority the most, the higher priority things should be at the top, clothing, miscellaneous, and don't live in miscellaneous. And, of course, the dreaded debt, right? So I have already spent, so there was $44,000 in my account, if we remember here, and we have a starting balance of negative 1500 for I think I did that wrong. That should be starting balance. That's why I looked at the wrong thing. So please forgive me. That's my checking checking account, starting balance in the. Credit card was negative 1500 because I owe them money, because life sucks. I bought some some Jordans. So when I look at what could be budgeted $3,600 because we're we're actually doing some quick you know, math here, let me take this out, and I'll show you why. So I'm going to pay myself. I'm sorry. I need to put that back in there because I don't want I'm going to carry this balance over with my credit card. If I could type, if I could type, all right, you're just messing with me. Okay, so I've already told I'm going to carry that balance over so I can get my money back, but take out my savings, and I have $4,000 so, so let me kind of reframe that I was playing around with this earlier to make sure I could explain it properly. Since I'm starting with the debt and I'm carrying the debt over the what typically happens with programs like this is they want you to pay off the balance every month. Well, this person doesn't have the money to pay off the well, the balance every month. So we're just going to start with that and say we're going to carry that balance forward so that we can slowly pay off that debt. So let's work through March. As I said before, I like to pay myself a little bit of money, and 10% sounds good for me. So my company is going to start with, you know, 400 bucks. I'm a single guy. Let's say I'm not single. But in this example, I'm single, let's say I spend 500 bucks a month in groceries. Is probably not accurate, I know, because inflation and I treat myself to, you know, one time a month I go out for dinner. My utility bill is, let's say it's 120 bucks. My gas bills 40 bucks. My order is like 30 bucks a month. Trash pickup is 15 and my cell phone is, let's say, 80 bucks a month. And as I made those decisions, I can see that I have available to budget $2,700 now rent. This is a crappy one, because I know rent for a single person right now is $1,900 in Raleigh. Yeah. So that sucks. But in this example, I got paid on the 12th. I'll get paid again at the end of the month, or, let's say, the 15th. So maybe that this person is going to be okay, I don't know, but this price is $1,900 this month is getting kind of scary. I have renters insurance. It's 15 bucks, no other car, no other type of insurance. Now let's get into the real well, my car payment is, I said, before 750 gas has gone up and I can only afford to put, like, probably $50 worth of gas in my until I get paid again. All these other bills are, you know, do before I get my next paycheck. But life's not bad, though, right? Ask me why life's not bad. Chris Why is life not bad? Andre Andre because the money that I'm going to use, or the money that I have I've already, you know, I know where it's going. The only thing I have to do now is kind of make sure i i spend money based on what I have available. My checking account still says $4,000 right? But I know that $4,000 has a job. Yep. So it looks bad, but it's not so bad. Any questions so far, nope. Now I said that I get paid on the 15th, so let's, let's make that a reality, because even I'm getting scared, I'm like, yo, this is not good. So I'm going to add a new transaction. Say got paid on the fifth 16th, and so that Monday, paycheck, paycheck, and how much does let's say they make, what? Chris 4000 That's what you said, yes. So let's say, Oh no, that was the starting balance. Sorry, yeah. Andre How much? What's a good let's say $1,500 they make $3,600 so let's say $1,800 after taxes. Dollars, and it clear the bank, and we're gonna call that income. Okay, so when I go back to my budget, things aren't looking so grim. So now I can afford my car. I can, you know, maybe this person spends 170 bucks a month in gas. Their car insurance is 230 bucks. They need to buy all I'm out. I won't make them blind, but they could Chris $30 a month for car insurance. Andre Okay, they had one car, so let's say 160 I'm old, so my car insurance, I know my daughter's out on it. Chris How much is car insurance for one car? Yeah, 160 is probably about right. Okay, 140 to 160 okay? And they Andre don't have kids, but if they did, they could add that there plan on a vacation for their birthday in October. They want to put away 200 bucks a month for it, so that way they don't have to use their credit card anymore, right? This person has $1,300 left over that they just have to assign what they're going to do with it. So now I could adjust this, because, let's say that just for let's say they make 3600 bucks a month and 1800 let's say their parents gave them a like a gift of $1,000 just because, right. So this brings it back to reality, because if you're making it 3600 bucks a month after taxes, odds of you having $4,000 at the end of the month are pretty slim. So let's bring it back to reality. Let's say that a car is not 750 let's say it's like 400 maybe they have a nice used car. Okay? Life's not that bad. You have 500 bucks at the end, and it's it's up to you, the person to figure out what you do with that 500 bucks. Do you lessen your savings to reduce your debt? Do you? Do you take part of your savings and like you want to buy a new computer, so you're gonna take out 100 there and put it there. But understanding and navigating where your money goes gives you a little bit more control. Ask me questions. Chris Okay, so I see in the first column we have the kind of the assigned amount, and then in the second column is that spent. Andre That's where it gets fun. Yeah, so spent, let's say, on the let's say, Today I bought some groceries. Kroger, actually, Harris two there, fancy store, I know right. Groceries. And I spent like, $110 so now what I have left to spend in groceries is 390 bucks. So before I spend money on like, it's intentional spending, before I'm like, I need to buy groceries. How much money do I have? Your bank account says $4,490 that number is wrong. That number, this number will always be wrong. Okay, does it matter? It's always wrong. It may. It's going to always be bigger than what's over here, right? Because when you say groceries, you only have $390 Chris All right, so what is the what are the biggest differences between this and you need a budget? Andre One thing I found that I kind of had to get used to with the biggest difference I found is credit cards. Okay, so if I were to make a credit card payment and you need a budget, and I do the transfer, it automatically adds that to the budget amount, right? It does, it does the transfers automatically and reflects the balance. But with this, I actually have to make a transfer. Or adjust the budgeted column for that payment. Does that make sense? Yeah, and I'll show you kind of what I mean. So let's say I add a new transaction to my credit card. I'm so you see where it says transfer here, and let's say I make the minimum payment of that balance is probably like $47 or something like that, right? So what adjust here is the balance. Well, it doesn't adjust the balance, so I have to take out the $47 Chris which sucks. Gotcha. So even though you made the payment and you recorded the payment, it didn't affect the credit card balance, because it's not, well, it's Andre exactly so I have to manually make a payment here, including the interest, interest charges and whatever. So sure it's, it's probably just, it's a minor inconvenience. It's not like a big deal for me, but it took me a minute to like, well, I already made a payment, and it's like, Nah, dawg. You got to actually put a payment there. So that's fine. I don't really care about that too much. Yeah. What do you like the minor inconvenience? Yeah. Chris What do you like better about this? Then you need a budget. Andre I like the fact that I believe the community behind this project are going to continue, continuously make it better. I think unfortunately, with Team it, you need a budget. Rumors. Are they're going to go public, or they're looking for a private equity firm. I don't know if that's true or not. It kind of feels that way though. I kind of get the feeling of like, yeah, you guys have probably not reach your ceiling. You're pretty popular. Could be time to exit, yeah. So I kind of feel like the the in the the old community of the software has gone away. And if I'm being honest, when they close the forums I I wanted to leave then, because I kind of like the community aspect of it, you know, we can go and ask questions and encourage each other and all these other things. It doesn't feel that way anymore. Chris Yeah, you know, that's interesting, because I think typically when you're looking at budgeting tools, it does very much feel like you're on your own, right, like it's just you by yourself. And I think the community aspect of that is really interesting, that I could see that being especially beneficial in a budgeting type atmosphere. I tried, what was it? Called monarch? No, it was a dieting app called, I think it was like Noom, oh yeah. Remember that one that was advertised for a while, and that was like a big part of a big part of their pitch was, it's like, it's not just you, like, you've got a coach that's there to help you, and then there's like, you have a group of people that you get assigned to, and you're all supposed to, like, encourage each other, and all of this stuff. It all kind of fell apart eventually, because, you know, right, as things typically do with dieting. But I could see that being extremely beneficial in the in the budgeting space. Andre Questions for especially if you're, you're a couple, and I think one of the most asked, frequently asked questions is, what do you do if you're you're managing your budget with your partner, right? Yeah, and they actually have a section on that in their doc section, which is kind of cool. But a long time ago, I learned that in most couples, there is the nerd and then there's a spender. One of you are going to be one of the other. And it's very rare that both of you are the spender, and if you are, God bless you. It's super rare both you're the nerd, because right then again, God bless you. My My wife is, is the spender. I'm the nerd, and I like to know where all the pennies go, and a lot of that comes from just like my, just like my career, you know, I'd like to know where all the ketchup packets went to Chris and you were responsible for financial numbers at a very high level. So, yeah. Andre So I feel comfortable, yeah. And I, but I think it's a. Healthy activity. Like, I still struggle when I hear couples that have separate finances and, like, how does that work? Right? I get it. I don't understand it, Chris no, but I definitely think it's a, it is a an act. Like you said, it's a healthy activity for couples to participate in. Because I think, you know, it's, it's one of those things where it it seems easier, probably to have one person just manage it all. But I think in the end, like you're going to feel much more comfortable and like you understand what's going on if you're an active participant in it, and as opposed to just like an innocent bystander, right? Andre And I so I'm a I'm a bit big advocate of it, and I get that a lot of the industries, they don't want to call it the budget anymore, because that's a bad word, and they call it a spending plan or something like that. Whatever the term you use, you should track what you're spending, I mean, and you should try to spend like less than you make. Chris I'm not human resources. I'm the director of People Operations. I'm gonna I'm gonna clip that. I'm gonna use that. Andre Chris does know how to get in my skin, but, but, yeah, I think that finding a tool, and I will say that if you're not, if you're not super technical, that's fine. I still think you need a budget is a great tool. I just, for my own personal reasons, don't want to, like, use it anymore. Doesn't mean it's bad, just it's, it's like, I've, I've moved on. Chris Well, I mean, it looks at least like you. I mean, because from everything I saw today, this looks very similar to what I remember from you need a budget. So it seems like you've found, at least, if nothing else, an alternative for people. If they're not 100% satisfied with you need a budget or looking for something else, then this could be another, another option for them. Andre Yeah, and I think both tools are what actually let me back up. I'll end my tech rant with this. So after careful consideration, I have decided that I'm no longer going to use GIMP. I'm going to migrate a lot of my projects away from Inkscape, and I'm no longer going to use an affinity. I'm going to migrate projects from there also and just stick with like, like photo Mater. I bought sketch. I have a pin pot instance running on one of my servers, because I think I've I finally came to a realization, the tools don't make you the like, they don't make you productive. They actually it's you that makes you productive, right? And if you're building your skills, you don't have to I don't mind having a big tool set, that's what she said, but I want to intentionally use the right tools for my environment, if that makes sense, like I bit the bullet and bought sketch The other the other day. I will never use figma. I actually, if you remember this, I was one of the early adopters to figma, even at diesel. So when they first and then they just kind of went crazy and started just wanting more money from people. So I'd rather spend 120 bucks on a license for sketch than deal with figma. I'd rather spin up a PIN pot instance in a Docker container. Now, if it gets to a point where I don't want to maintain the server anymore, I'll be more than happy to use pin pot and then pay them seven bucks a month, because I want to support good software, but for right now, I have the bandwidth to to to, like, just run it myself. Will I in the future? Possibly, potentially not want to do that anymore. Possibly, because I know me, there's sometimes just like, I don't want to do that. Chris So when you said that you were moving away from projects like gimp and Inkscape, is that just because you want to pay for software that you're going to use or, Andre well, I want to get so GIMP is ugly. Chris Oh yeah, gimp is it's a it's Andre usable software. So I. And I've used it for years. I just don't want to use ugly software. Like, that's like a thing. I just kind of like, why don't I use GIMP? It's God awful ugly. And it's, I just don't want to use it. I like Inkscape, and I mean, still keep using Inkscape for some SVG stuff, but I'm of two minds. I think that we should stop thinking all software should be free. Number one, sure. And I also think that if you can find something that improves your efficiency, that you can pick up really easily use that. I like kingscape. I know all the keyboard shortcuts. I don't really do a lot of raster stuff anyway, so it was easier for me to migrate away from affinity. In that aspect, Affinity Designer is dope. I don't like the canvas shit. If I'm being super honest, that turned me off. I'm not sure if you knew that Canva bought affinity, and it's for me, it's a big turn off. I just rather if I'm going to pay for something, I want to feel comfortable in the company's direction, and I feel more comfortable with Apple's direction than I do Canva. I still have affinity two on my machines. I'm not going to download affinity 3.1 or any of that crap. So it's easier now to migrate most of my production work to photometer and in Pixelmator than it would be to try to recreate it in GIMP or anything like that. So we say, I believe that, like production ready and production level software, it's not going to be for the most part. It won't be open source, except, with the exception of probably blender, like blender is amazing. I'm not good at it, but it's pretty cool. So I'm not giving up on open source. I just think that. I think it's a it's a big dream to think that a lot of these projects will get to a point where they can compete with like production, whether that's finance software, whether that's it's very complicated with the more complex the software is for open source to compete sometimes I think, does that make sense? Chris Yeah, no, it does. I mean, because you don't have the financial backing behind those projects that you typically do. You know otherwise. So you know, and then in some ways you can, you know, maybe you have a little bit more stability because you have an organization, like a corporation, that's kind of behind it, as opposed to just a loosely knit online community, you know. I mean, obviously I think open source, as has played and can continue to play a very crucial role in software development. And I think it, you know, things like Inkscape and GIMP are, I appreciate the fact that they provide a, you know, at least a basic tool to get provide access to those types of technologies, right? Because, I think, and same thing with Da Vinci resolve Andre that just They just switched to a license, they just dropped their price from $300 to 149 so the I'm telling you, something is shifting in the landscape and so, but go ahead. But I was kind of shocked when I saw that. I was like, Yo, Chris yeah, that's very interesting. I So, yeah, no, I do, I do understand what you're saying, though, in that, you know, in support too, right? I think, you know, with a was paid software, you feel like you have a different level of you should have a higher level of customer support. So if things do go wrong, you're not just again, like going to a forum and posting and hoping that the community can help you figure it out. So yeah, I think there's a lot of good reasons to pay for software, and if it's good quality software and it's at a reasonable price, then you know, I have no issue paying for it. Me personally, I don't mind that gimp is an ugly tool, mainly because my needs don't extend beyond spending maybe, like 30 or 45 minutes in and out of time, right? I'm not spending hours in GIMP, and I know the tool. Well enough now that it's like trying to get me to switch to something else is probably gonna, that's gonna be a hassle. You know, Inkscape, it's interesting because, you know, it does. It provides a lot of functionality that that I would use, like an Adobe Illustrator in order to achieve in if I were willing to pay an ungodly amount of money, Andre but I would never buy Adobe Illustrator like, here's here's why, right? So remember when I told you I bought a Final Cut Pro, right? I liked the men to resolve, but it made me feel stupid when I used it. The the videos I'm doing aren't like studio quality yet, but I think I can get, like a very good final product, right, and continue to get better, easier than I would with DaVinci Resolve. And it's because it's an Apple product, so I think that's part of it. They they do such a good job of design and understanding how users interact with their tools, it's almost a no brainer. It and they're like, they're like, granted, as soon as I buy that shit, like, four months later, they have their Creator thing for 12 bucks a month. I'm like, you, yeah, hey, got you. I mean, I bought motion, I bought Final Cut Pro. I mean, I bought pixel made up, bro. I'm like, yo, I'm already here. So, so I think from and you're not, I mean, you're not wrong, like, I'm not gonna, like, do I spend 30 or 45 minutes as a photo like a graphic artist? No, I don't, but I'm trying to build a company and have, you know, professional quality stuff, and not feel like, you know, not feel like my company's gonna, like, keep pouring out money I can't afford to, like, pour out so, yeah, I don't know. I like opens. I'm a big open like, actual budget is open source. I'm going to like donate to that project this year, because I see the value in it. But I think some things maybe it's not maybe there's not enough runway at a professional level for open source projects. Does that make sense? Chris Like I like, I don't think they have, I mean, I Yes, I think I hear what you're saying that you just, you're not going to evolve quick enough, I think on the open source front to get Andre to the mass adoption, Chris yeah, very it's unlikely, right? And I think again, because you just, you don't necessarily have the same infrastructure to support that, and so, yeah, I think open source is always going to be at that, that disadvantage, and you're always as a user, you're always at the kind of whims of the community and or whether or not the creators decide to abandon the project, right? Right? In some ways, it's kind of like meme coins where, you know, Andre it's the best analogy ever. Chris Yeah, that's what they pay me the big bucks for here, right? Andre No, but you're, I mean, like, I like Inkscape, and that's I did. I think I just uninstalled GIMP, because I don't think I'm gonna use it like the times I need the end of the photo. Like, pixel made a Pro does it for what I do, does a good enough job. And I know people use GIMP and professional work, so I'm not saying that to start people to hate me in the comments, I get all that I've and I've, I'm a big advocate of, like, open source. I think my problem is sometimes it's like, I think with GIMP, it's just, it's just not a good looking pieces, like I'm serious, Chris like, it's not, no, I know you're I mean, you're not wrong. I understand. I really do. I I completely understand it's, it is an ugly tool. They just, they pick some ugly colors, and they've never really updated it, and, yeah, you could probably do it in like a lighter tone, and it would look 10 times better. But it is Andre what it is. I will say this, and I don't want to, I don't want to shit on Kim. I've used it for years, and I've I'm actually going to migrate my business for. Finances to GNU cash at the end of the year. So that's one of the goals I had this year too. I'm using Wave accounting, and I'm not really, I'm not really happy with it, because they started out as a great platform, but it's like everything else and shitification, and then comes a subscription. And I'm smarter than that. So and good new cash is not the prettiest of all things, either, but I do, like double enter accounting, so like, it's kind of like I can, like, pick my battles there. So I'm not saying actually. What I am saying is I believe that the open source community has a big opportunity to like, possibly get wider spread adoption. One of the things they have to focus on is like the UI UX. The first time I opened Affinity Designer, I was like, Yeah, this is so not in escape. It looks so much better. Now I still use Inkscape because I'm faster in escape than I am and now pixel manner, but it's there's a night and day difference between the like the three softwares. Pixelator looks professional. Affinity Designer looks professional. Inkscape is usable. Pixelator looks professional. Affinity Photo looks professional. GIMP is like, Yo, this is GIMP is like, Chris is like a fucking bitmap editor, you know, like the early 90s, in terms of its its overall esthetic. It is not nice, but it gets the job done. So, and I hear exactly what you're saying, though I do. It makes a lot of sense, yeah, Andre it's, I feel bad for saying that, because I've used it for a number, like, since the 2000s early 2000s and I feel bad, but it's kind of like, yeah, you just had to get a fresh coat of paint. I just updated my company website to match my overall brand theme, because I knew that what I was showing people was not attractive. Yeah, and I know that's important to people. People don't take you seriously if you look like you got stuck in 1998 so blender is dope. I have so I'm not alright. Let me I feel like I'm defending myself. I don't have a thing against open source software. I just think, right now, I'm at a point where it's like, I I need efficiency, I need support, and I need bugs to get fixed so I can move on. And I think that's what you know, that's what it boils down to. Inkscapes. Latest Release is dope. I'm probably going to migrate away from it, because now I can take SVGs and put them directly into Apple Motion, so I can do cool, super cool things. So it's not about the program, it's about the function at like, the functionality that I'm going to need in the future. So will I use Inkscape less possibly? Is it because ink escapes bad? No, it's because of the functionality I need to build upon. And with GAMP, it's, it's kind of the same thing if I can easily do things in something similar to not a photographer, and I'm not a graphic artist, and get decent results and spend a third of the time non destructive edits, would be great. I know that just came out, but damn, yeah, I've been waiting a minute. So yeah, anyway, I love technology, I hope. And just to tie it all back in together, I don't think Docker was the be all to end all. I don't think AI is going to be the same thing. I do think people's jobs will be lost. I think we need to be smarter with the how we implement technology in society. And then secondly, I think for those of us who are getting money, we have to be wise with our decisions. I'm not saying that everything's perfect, but I'm saying that, how do you become a better steward of what you have? While you can I think that makes a big difference too. So actual budget is awesome. You. In a budget is awesome, too. I just, I think they're, I don't know what it is, man. Just like, I don't Chris just feel it in your plums, you know, Andre yeah, if and if they make money, that's awesome. I'm not hating on that. I'm just like, I think that, I think certain tools, especially like financial software or like something that impacts a lot of people, there should be a sense of community around it, and you should have a way for people to help each other, and Reddit, ain't it? Chris Thanks for checking out the Chris and Andre show. This is the part where we ask you to like and subscribe. 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