CHOOSING YOUR REFLECTION TITLE: Let it Roll DURATION: 34:22 Getting married is an event that holds a different meaning for everyone. For some, itÕs based on religious traditions, and for others itÕs a validation of an earlier choice they made to live with that special someone they love.Ê Hi. IÕm Lauren, and welcome to Choosing Your Reflection; a series of discussions that reflect upon the reasons we have for choosing our wedding day outfits.Ê Our guests are diverse, but they all share a common journey.Ê As they share their stories, theyÕll help us unravel the mystique that exists around choosing that special outfit, and what they learned about themselves along the way. I recently sat down with Samm Blake, an Australian photographer based in New York City. Her training as a photojournalist enables her to produce a body of work thatÕs honest, vulnerable, and displays the connection she establishes with her subjects. Listen as we discuss her work, her worldwide travels, and a peek into her own experience choosing her wedding day outfit. Samm: I am a wedding photographer. I've been shooting weddings now for 18 years, which is crazy to think about that it's been that long. I am originally from Australia and I went to college for photography and journalism with the intention of being a photojournalist. But after graduating college I spent a few years working and then backpacked around the world for a year. And on my return realized I didn't want to be a photojournalist. I just realized it was going to be a hard life. And I was already shooting weddings at this stage. And I just realized all the creative freedom that I would ever want as a photographer is already in the wedding world that I was familiar with. Well I first started shooting weddings in 2003, but I launched my business in 2007. And I've been at it ever since full time. And I moved to New York about eight years ago. I got a little restless in Australia and wanted to change things up. Yeah. And I've been here ever since. Lauren: Could you just speak a little bit about your style and how it stands out from typical wedding photography? Samm: At college I studied under this amazing photographer Max Dupain, who is a very fine art photojournalist photographer. And he really taught his students why they take a photograph rather than how to take a photograph. So why do we take photographs? What is the purpose? Like, obviously, there is some purpose to like record particular moments in people's lives, but to me there's something so much more than just recording like this happened and this happened. It's like I can record this and I can also show within the photograph how I felt about it as well. And so to me that's why weddings I think became so appealing. Like photojournalism, you have to kind of remain, you know, pretty neutral. You know, obviously just telling what's happening in front of you. Whereas I'm such an emotional creative person that I wanted to inject that part of me into my work, and that's where the freedom of weddings became very appealing. Yeah, to me like to have a photograph that just like moves you. And you're not sure why it maybe moves you, but it just moves you. That's what makes me excited about photography. Lauren: Considering your global experience having backpacked the world, worked multiple continents, does that affect your photojournalism in the way that you're seeing different cultures and different societies? Do you think that affects it as well? Samm: I was doing it rough when I was backpacking around the world. I was going all through like Asia, and like China, India. And one thing I just felt like ÒWho am I to come here and take these pictures?Ó Like this privileged white person that gets to backpack and then move on. And that always was very unsettling to me. It was a major thing in changing my direction in my work. The juxtapositioning between the glamorous world of weddings and the reality of what goes on just outside of that. It's crazy and mind boggling that it all coexists. You know, obviously getting to travel the world for photography is an amazing experience and privilege. But yeah, it can be very unsettling seeing that kind of injustice as well. Lauren: What sort of fosters your artistic bent when it comes to your photography? Samm: Good question. I don't know! Like to me, it's just this like very internal É ah É I can't even describe it. It's like a very emotional thing when it comes to photography for me. I graduated, you know, with a photography degree not really understanding anything to do with the technical side of photography, but the theory side of photography like why we take photographs that was just kind of instilled in me. And it's so hard to articulate what is going on in the brain or in the heart that makes me want to produce the work that I do. But I think you know, one of the most privileged things I get to do as É being a photographer is I do get to step into different people's lives every weekend, or even midweek, particularly this year. And I get to step in and I get to see how these people, families, friends come together and celebrate. And then I get to put my creative spin on that and you know, produce this collection of images and then step out of this family again and then produce this body of work. And hopefully you know when couples and families look back on the work I create for them that I've shown them a slightly different perspective or beauty then they may have overlooked or misseen on the day. I always want to create very like nostalgic, warm, you know, work that that really showcases the joy and the celebration of people coming together. Lauren: It feels like you sort of change your artistic bent depending on who you're photographing and the client that you're working with and it's tailored to their aura, or their flow and how they function. And you sort of mentioned that it's always flashing by and they sort of miss it so youÕre hoping to catch those moments. How do you decide which moments you think are the most important to capture? Samm: Obviously, by attending many weddings in my lifetime I can kind of preempt what's about to happen. Even though all the weddings I shoot are so different, and there's so many different religions and ways people celebrate, there's still like a little bit of a recipe to a wedding. So I know once the bride puts her dress on what's going to happen in those moments afterwards, so I get ready. I think about the angles. I'm like, ÒWho É who's about to walk into this room and see the bride for the first time in her dress?Ó Generally, it's the mom or other family members. And I know that's going to be a good moment. So anytime that there's human interaction, generally, it's a great moment. You know I started shooting weddings when I was about 19, 20 years of age. So you know at that time I was shooting couples that were a similar age to me É kind of people I knew. Now I'm in my mid 30s É more like late 30s I guess É you know I'm still the same age as my clients. So I just say to myself like, ÒWhat would a bride want?Ó I was a bride last year. ÒWhat do I want?Ó So I just photograph what I would want. What is important if this was my wedding, was my sister's wedding or a close friend's wedding. So I just in a way selfishly shoot for me, but at the same time, people seek me out for that point of view perspective. And, obviously, you know, you get hired for those reasons, you know, because I see the world in a certain way. Lauren: It's a very personal way of looking at a wedding instead of a very sterile way which I think is quite lovely. Do you think outfits play a role in your photography? Do you think about them before you take a photo? Samm: Oh for sure. The dress or the outfit plays a huge role in how I photograph a day. Like, you know, I do shoot a lot of elopements here in New York City. And with those style weddings, there's so much freedom because there's not like a long train generally, that I have to contend with. So there's a lot of freedom in what we can do because we don't have to worry about it getting dirty, because it's generally an above the knee dress. So there's a lot of creative freedom just because the bride can actually move around, versus you know like a more traditional wedding dress with a train. If there's like a really cool unique dress, or thereÕs sometimes just this one part of a dress that really inspires me. Sometimes it could just be the veil that like, hugely inspires me and then that sets me off on a É a thing you know, for the day of photographing. Like, I remember the very first time I photographed a bride, which was, I'm not sure what the exact name of the veil is, but it's the very sort of vintage French style, which has like a thick lace section around the head. And the very first time I got to photograph that I was in my element! It was so fun and different and beautiful and ethereal and like, all the inspiration I needed was in that veil. So I find every wedding gives me something. You know I've been very fortunate over the years that I get a lot of colorful wedding dresses to photograph. I just had a wedding get published that the bride wore a bright red Vera Wang dress, and that set the whole tone for the wedding because it was a ginormous red ballgown of a dress. IÕve had a blue dress covered in white stars and that played its own personality, I guess. I've had a blue wedding dress, I've had purple wedding dress, black wedding dresses É but even when itÕs a white wedding dress, which is a majority of the time, if it's got an interesting detail like the designer that has the big massive bows on the back. I love them. Lauren: Do you feel like you get a sense of the person or the people that you're photographing from what they're wearing? Do you think that shares a bit about who they are? Does that help you get a window into their personality? Samm: Oh, for sure. Like my bride in the red wedding dress, she is a very bold, confident, beautiful person. And the dress reflected a huge part of her personality I think, that she didn't want to walk up in just the white dress like you know, like it was a huge part of who she was. ItÕs kind of like ÒI'm here.Ó So yeah, I do think brides definitely are trying to say something about who they are, but also just I think a big thing is just also wanting to look beautiful and be confident. And I think that's the most important thing. Lauren: I know that you do sort of an intake survey and try to get to know your couple before you get to photograph them on the day. Do you typically collect like information about what they wear? Samm: Sometimes people email me privately away from their partner. They say ÒThis is my dress É just want you to see it,Ó Or we've already talked about it in some way in a meeting. So but yeah, I definitely like to dig in and find more about the couple É who they are and the irpersonality quirks, like who's the introvert and the extrovert of the couple because I'll use that to help me when I'm doing the portrait shoot or other parts of the day, like up, rely more on the extrovert to help the quieter one out. The one question I started asking in the last year is ÒWhat is each other's favorite features about each other?Ò So, you know, like, the last questionnaire I got back. He said her freckles and so now I go in knowing that he really loves her freckles. So maybe try to capture a photo that shows a little you know, shows her freckles or blue eyes or whatever that special feature was. So I like to dig and find that sort of stuff out. Um, but I also welcome any like mood boards, photo inspiration so I know what I'm and I can plan and do a better job on the day. Lauren: Being such an impressive photographer yourself what did you do when you were getting married? What did you look for in a photographer? Samm: Ooh, that was the million dollar question when I announced I was getting married. Everyone wanted to know who I was hiring. I didn't want it to be a friend. And obviously, a majority of my friends are photographers, so I wanted that sort of stranger person. Like I didn't want to be a close friend. I feel like I do a better job when I'm not very close to that person. Sometimes when itÕs a very good friend, you think it would actually be beneficial because there's a comfort, but at the same time, it can work against you. Like I shot friends weddings in the past and they kind of let me know that they're not feeling comfortable. Like a portrait shoot or something. They're like, ÒOh we feel weird, or we feel awkward right now.Ó And I'm like, ÒDon't tell me that!Ó Like ÒYouÔre throwing me off!Ó and now I'm like kind of gaining stress. Whereas like a normal couple probably wouldn't say that. And so then it kind of just keeps me in my flow. Obviously I do kind of want to know if they are feeling awkward but at the same time it can kind of throw me, you know? And obviously some element of it will always be awkward, like unless you're a professional model that you have a camera in your face all day every day. Of course, it's a semi awkward process. So for me, want it to be a bit of a stranger, want it to be very candid, photojournalistic. My husband is an introvert -- does not like the attention -- so I wanted somebody that would be a good match for him and not make him feel É just make him feel comfortable and feel good being in front of a camera. Obviously not into posing because I don't like posing photos like you know, the typical couple wedding posiness. And so yeah, and so I settled on a photographer actually from Australia. So I had the whole world to kind of choose from and found Jessica Trump in Melbourne, Australia. She actually shot my best friend's wedding. So I saw her in action at a wedding, but I didn't really know her. And she was willing to fly over to New York. And she actually had to leave at 9:30 on the night of the wedding because she had get the flight to make it back to her other wedding. But I wasn't worried that she would have to kind of finish early because I had, like 20 other wedding photographers at the wedding that now had some alcohol in them that would love the camera. And everyone just took a lot of photos after she left. So it was fun. Lauren: I didn't even think of that, you know, with a wedding full of photographers, you probably had a bunch of photos beyond just your personal photographer for your wedding. You probably just had, oh my gosh, bundles of them. Samm: I actually got a lot of film cameras and like, you can get these really cool disposable black and white film cameras. And I bought a bunch of them and I had a bunch of Polaroid. Like this Polaroid film went out of stock in 2013. And I bought like 60 boxes, and now goes for like $100 on eBay a box. So I'm like sitting on a little gold mine. But I canÕt sell it right? So I'm like at my own wedding that's worthy of busting out this film. So I set up like a photo table of all my old vintage cameras and film and let the drunk wedding photographers go wild! It's such a treat to go to a wedding and not have to photograph like when it's your job, obviously. But there comes a point in the night where you probably get like, everyone just gets itchy and wants to. The thing is I haven't developed them yet. They're still sitting in the box. And my anniversary is coming up and I thought I'll develop them on the anniversary and I think it'd be like a weird wonderful surprise to see what's on them. Lauren: That's a lovely thing and I think it's sort of a nice way to celebrate. I'm curious if photography influenced your decision when you were looking for a wedding dress? Samm: Yeah I knew what works and what doesn't work for wedding dresses. So I was very opinionated. I went to like three different dress shops. And it was like theyÕve never seen a bride actually at a wedding. It was amazing. One sales lady had actually never been to a wedding and she sells wedding dresses. And I was just like mind blowing, like, because they do custom dresses and I'm like I knew all these things that I needed changed. A really long train is annoying because the bride keeps tripping on it. If she has to keep holding up the dress, it just becomes a nuisance. If youÕre sucking in all night, that's not fun. You might look awesome, but you're not going to enjoy yourself. I also know that lace is very forgiving. So like any belly bumps or any of that stuff like lace can É yeah, lace hides a lot. And sheer fabric doesn't. So I kind of went into this kind of like ÒI know my body.Ó I knew what I felt good about, what I wanted to show off, what I wanted to hide, whatever. So it played a huge role. I was probably very painful. I was like, ÒNo, I don't want that don't want this.Ó But I ended up É I think it took me like 15 É 16 dresses until I found the right one. I spend 40 hours a week looking at dresses, like editing dresses basically. And you know, you sit there as you're editing away É obviously, and when you're shooting, but much more when you have a computer editing and you thinking like, your just thinking about dresses. So to me, it was like, I didn't want to wear the white wedding dress because I'm stubborn and independent and, you know, part of my personality just doesn't want to do what everyone else does, I guess. But then there was this other part of me É it's like ÒI've spent my life photographing brides in these white dresses, it's finally my turn. I get I get to wear one.Ó And so to me, it was more about playing this role of being a bride because I felt like I deserved that after all these years, even though it was part of my personality that was like, ÒI want to wear a sequin colorful dress. I don't want to conform to the wedding stereotypes.Ó But in the end, I did end up having a white wedding dress. A white lacey wedding dress. But it was a two piece which I would have never imagined I would have gone with, but I tried it on as kind of like a whim. I just felt like É I was just trying on like, what I felt like what all these princessy wedding dresses, and then they weren't me. But I also knew what was going to work for my body type. A lot of the dresses that I do like wouldn't suit my body. So I had to kind of, you know, smart enough to know what was going to work and what wasn't. And so yeah, I tried this two piece on just like, ÒAlright, let's see what the hell this looks like.Ó And then I ended up loving it. It was this Romanian designer. It's called a Divine Atelier. And I felt very connected to European designers compared to American ones. I think that's just because I'm immune to the American designers. I see them all the time, maybe. And whereas the European dress designers they seem É I guess it's a fresh thing and it felt more unique and special because I haven't photographed brides in something similar before.And so yeah the dress is very ÉI guess it's like boho, rock and roll, glam É My theme for my wedding was this is what the florist, you know after I like gave her all the thoughts that were going on in my head about what I wanted for wedding decorations. She interpreted as Sophia Coppola, 1960s, pastel, favor punch party. Something to that effect. And I'm like, ÒYes, you have it! YouÕve got it perfectly! My vision!Ó And so the dress tied into that as well. I guess it was different from what I see all the time and I just wanted something different. So it was a unique experience for me. Lauren: It sounds so fun. Sounds like you had a lot of fun at your wedding. And I do wonder if you considered your two piece dress to be perfect. And perfect I know Is he a unique word which tends to transcend all meaning because perfect for one person is not perfect for another. But for you, was your dress perfect? Samm: The fact that I hesitate over that question, I guess no. It was the most perfect dress I found out of what I was looking for. But I see other dresses online now and be like ÒOh, I wish I had that dress.Ó I was fine with like a $500 dress. It didn't cost that. It cost me a lot more. But like I just had low, low intentions. I've never been that person that's got caught up on that idea. Not that's a bad thing. ItÕs just like, it's not who I am. I would have been happy in a $100 dress if it was the right dress, if it was perfect for me, so price was never an issue. It was more ÒDo I feel beautiful? Do I feel confident?Ò And did I feel beautiful? And did I feel confident? Yes, I did. So then it was a perfect dress, I guess. Like I feel like theyÕre the two most key things that a wedding dress should be about. Y ou know, I went into this wedding in my mid 30s. And like, I you know, it's a bit different when you're if you get married when you're in your 20s I guess. And you have a lot more I guess life experience at that point, compared to you know, if you get married younger. And like being like, ÒI'm a confident woman.Ó And did that dress make me feel that way? Yes it did. Yeah. Lauren: Do you think all of that was influenced by seeing all these different weddings É not just in the sense of you wanted to be different, but do you think you picked up ideas along the way? Samm: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah I definitely borrowed bits and pieces from all the weddings I've ever been to. A wedding that I photographed maybe four months before, they had really beautiful vows, which I realized -- well after a bit of research -- was Buddhist wedding ceremony vows that I had found on the internet that they had obviously got from the internet. And I used them as well because that they moved me. You know, I've listened to many wedding vows in my time and like that stood out as being very memorable and very beautiful. And so I adapted those vows and incorporated them into my own. And then another big thing that I did is É one thing I never understand about wedding ceremonies is why do the couple, the wedding couple, stand with their backs to the audience? They don't look at the audience basically the whole ceremony. And then all these guests that have traveled from the other side of the world get the back of their heads ceremony, and that just like it's a thing I don't understand. So what we did our wedding is me and Kerry stood side by side and we faced the audience. And then our officiant, who was our best friend, he stood off to the side. My favorite part of the whole day was, you know, being in the ceremony and just looking out, and it was like all these different people from all different parts of my life. And just having that experience was really profound because it was mostly friends at our wedding. It was just like people from all over America that I've become friends with since I've moved here and you know, my childhood friends from Australia came over and photographer friends from Australia came over and it was amazing. Lauren: That's such a beautiful idea and such a smart idea. I never even thought of that. To be able to see everyone, that's such a beautiful thing that you did. Is there a specific wedding story or wedding moment that sticks out to you as one of your favorites or something that just you can't ever get out of your head? Samm: Hmm É there's so many. Last year I photographed a wedding at a chateau in the French countryside. But they were from Australia. TheyÕre same sex couple. One of the grooms knew one of my clients that I photographed like maybe 12 years ago, 10 years ago or something. He bookmarked my website from that wedding and he's like, one day when I get married, she's going to shoot my wedding. Fast forward like 10 years, theyÕre now living in London. He reaches out to me in New York, ÒCan you please come and shoot my wedding?Ó And so I went to France to shoot this wedding. And like I hadn't met them before. We obviously had Skyped and stuff in the lead up to it, but I stayed at the Chateau with them. And so basically I got to hang out with a bunch of Australians in the French countryside. drinking champagne and having É well I wasnÕt drinking champagne É I was photographing. But you know, like, that was like is the kind of crazy experience that even though you know I travel the world and shoot all these weddings, it all kind of comes back down to these personal relationships from my past. It's all over the place, but it's beautiful. And I think that's the best part of the job and that's what really stands out is you know, through, even though it is a job and I do meet hundreds of people a year there's these solid friendships that get made through the process. And yeah, I think that's the perk of the job. Lauren: Almost like you become a part of their family if not for that moment for a lifetime and in one way or another. Samm: Over the years IÕve become very close to some some of these couples that I originally shot their wedding for. And I feel like I'm going to be there within 20 years time photographing É maybe not 20 years, maybe 30 years time photographing the kids weddings, maybe. It'd be really cool If I get to shoot like a kid's wedding of someone's wedding I photographed. I think it'd be really cool. And to me that's, I think, what I find very fascinating about this job. It ties back into the photojournalism aspect. I'm recording people's lives. And one thing I really want to do in my retirement is hunt down all my couples that I've ever photographed -- the ones that made it and still married -- and photograph them when theyÕre in their 70s or 80s and find them and write a book on ÒHow was your life?Ó You know, like, interview all these different couples and photograph them again and have like a wedding picture and then theyÕre like 50 years on picture. To me like that's the really interesting part of the job. The study of people, I guess. And you know, it's a big people watching job, yeah. Fascinating. Lauren: It is fascinating. A lot of the time on this podcast, we ask the question ÒIf your dress could say something to you? What would it say?Ó But I want to ask instead of asking that question, I kind of want to ask, what does your photography if it could speak to you if it could talk back to you and say, you know something, what do you think your photography would would say to you? Samm: I have no idea. Mmm, good question. I like getting stumped. Wow, it's gonna É IÕm gonna be pondering this for ages now. What would it say to me? Something about simplicity and human connection, but I don't know the right way to word all that. But to me, it's like the simplest things are the most beautiful. Lauren: And I also just, you know, because we're here, what would your dress say to you as well? Samm: Hmm. Another good question. This is a really silly answer, but ÒMake the hem shorter so I didn't keep stumbling over it all night.Ó The one thing I don't understand why wedding dresses are so long in the front. You know, like you pay like, like $500 to get the thing out in and put a bustle in it everything and then itÕs still a nuisance. Like why doesn't the fashion just become we see the shoes? Like I had amazing shoes but my dress didnÕt show off my amazing shoes. I loved my shoes probably more than the dress! And I don't have any in the photos. As I'm walking the dress is covering that shoe and É I donÕt know. I wanted it shorter. ThatÕs what my dress would say to me! Another funny thing that happened at my wedding, you know with the 20 wedding photographers in attendance that never get to drink at weddings É some may overindulge with red wine and then spill a glass of red wine over the bride. So that happened. Of course, that happened to the wedding photographer! But I was kind of like ÒEh, of course it happens to me. Whatever.Ó And I came home that night and I brought out some stain remover spray that I had in my laundry and I sprayed the dress in it and chucked it in the wash. And it turned out fine. It like, didn't stain at all. I knew that the lace like it wasn't really delicate lace It was kind of hardy lace. Yeah put it on like a delicate cycle, pulled it out in the morning, and it was É not a single É looks brand new! So I guess my dress would say something like ÒHave fun in it because it doesn't really matter if it gets dirty!Ó I would like to say to all my brides ÒYou only wear the dress once. You might as well get all your moneyÕs worth from it because you're not going to wear it again.Ó You know? ÒHave an amazing time in that dress!Ó Lauren: That's great advice because I feel like a lot of people are concerned about making sure it's perfect and great. I mean, IÕm personally going into a wedding in less than a year I'm thinking of, ÒOh god, I'm É I spill everything.Ó So I'm afraid of spilling on myself, let alone other people. But it doesn't matter. Really. Samm: No. Like there is one wedding I did about five years ago. It was a celebrity wedding and there was a bit of a bouquet mishap where the bouquet had some berries in it, and they exploded on the brideÕs dress and as she was coming down the aisle. She didn't know what happened at the time but she had some purple splatter across her breasts. And I photoshopped all that out in the photo. She never kind of knew that it was there. But after the ceremony she went inside for an hour to deal with it. And of course it could be devastating having your very lovely, beautiful, expensive dress damaged, but she like lost like an hour and a half of her wedding dealing with that. To me itÕs Photoshop it out É like just get out there and have fun. Don't worry about it. Yeah it's annoying, but you only got six hours at this wedding, generally six hours and it's all over. To lose an hour and a half of that? It's mind boggling. On a wedding day whatever happens, you just gotta let it roll. Lauren: you mentioned that you loved your shoes possibly more than your dress. Can you tell me a little bit about your shoes? Samm: Oh my shoes were just gold boots. And I think I've never photographed a bride in gold boots before so I liked them for that reason. And I got married and laid off two of us so you know it was wise for me to wear any clothes you and it kind of rained on the day so thereÕs that factor. But yeah, I just kind of felt maybe it's a bit more of a statement about my outfit because I was wearing gold boots I guess. But yeah, it's a really tricky to wear again, like they worked out the right outfits. So like these these shoes that I bought thinking I'm definitely wearing them again. But IÕve only worn them once since but yeah, they just seem like kick ass and cool. And Yeah, and I feel like the dress stole some of the attention away from them. Lauren: So I'll return to the question of if you have any advice for couples, whether it's for from the perspective of a photographer or the perspective of being someone who's been married yourself. Samm: Well, since we're talking about wedding dresses, I'm going to keep it related to that. Because it was a big learning curve, not learning curve for me, but like in my wedding dress shopping experience, I found a lot of the salespeople going ÒSpanx will fix that. Spanx will fix that.Ó And I'm like, ÒI'm a photographer. I know Spanx ainÕt gonna fix that.Ó And then you get disappointed when you know Spanx, doesn't fix that, you know? So, I would say have a variety of different Spanx options on the day. Test it out with the dress. Then particularly like, the boob situation, like if you're going to tape the boobs in, have backup options. I had one bride where she only brought duct tape, like silver gaffer tape, and she was using that to tape her boobs in, which wasn't flattering because it got bumpy. But she had no other options. That was that was it. So just have options. I think that's É like you think your underwear choices are going to work, but they might not. So have Plan B and maybe Plan C. And if it shows É if you can see the bump, or whatever you don't want to see in the mirror, if you can see it in the mirror, you're going to see it in the photography. Like that's not gonna hide anything no matter what the salesperson at the store tells you. Particularly If your dress has like sheer fabric, it definitely is going to show off more bumps or whatever. Just remember if you see it in the mirror, you're going to see it in the photos. So yeah.