CHOOSING YOUR REFLECTION TITLE: Free Flowing DURATION: 30:16 Getting married is an event that holds a different meaning for everyone. For some, itÕs based on religious traditions, and for others itÕs a validation of an earlier choice they made to live with that special someone they love.Ê Hi, IÕm Lauren, and welcome to Choosing Your Reflection; a series of discussions that reflect upon the reasons we have for choosing our wedding day outfits.Ê Our guests are diverse, but they all share a common journey.Ê As they share their stories, theyÕll help us unravel the mystique that exists around choosing that special outfit, and what they learned about themselves along the way. Lauren: We are so happy to have Sarah Kermode with us today! Sarah is the co-host of the Hiking Thru Life podcast. SheÕs also a new mom, and she's here today to tell us a little bit about her wedding and how it gives us a peek into the things she and her husband value. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. Could you tell me a little bit more about yourself? Sarah: Yeah, yes! Like you said, I am a new mom. We have a two-month-old, Rory; he's a boy. And I've just been enjoying the journey of parenthood. It's definitely slowed me down in a good way. I'm very much a Ògo go goÓ person and that kind of goes with our hiking and adventurous lifestyle. My husband and I have always loved hiking and adventuring and that's the core foundation of our relationship. And yeah, having a child has definitely slowed me down in that sense. WeÕre gonna take him on hikes eventually! Lauren: So I would love to know, now that you've brought up hiking, could you tell me a little bit about how you first fell in love, not with your husband, but with hiking? Sarah: I was always very adventurous. I did a lot of overseas traveling, I taught abroad and I would hike mountains a lot and go biking but it was always with other people. And right before I met my husband I had just gone on my very first backpacking trip with a group because I'm not the type of person to just like go on my own adventure. But, um, yeah, I was going on a backpacking trip right before I met him. And he was like, ÒWow, I'm doing that stuff alone!Ó so from there on out it was just a hiking and backpacking adventure together. Lauren: When you think about your experience getting married, so your engagement, your wedding, meeting your husband, all the way up until now, this whole like sort of bubble of time where you were in love and went through this process together, when you think about all of that, where does the journey begin for you? Sarah: Oh, my gosh. It began on Ok Cupid. That's where we met -- online. So we are a success story that you can meet your husband or wife or spouse online and it will be successful. I am proof of that! And as fairy tale as it sounds, it's so true that when you meet the right person you just know, and you just have that feeling. Like I left that date, that very first date with him just feeling like this is someone special. Like I really want to see him again. We really connected, I know this is going somewhere. I just had this gut feeling. I just knew I wanted to see him again. I was dating other people up until then but it wasn't that Òyou just knowÓ feeling. And yeah, it sounds so fairytale but it's true. And I think most people who are married happily can agree with me. I would hope so. I mean, maybe it's slow burning for others, but that's kind of where the story begins. I like that you said journey because we look at life as a journey. So ever since we met we've just been on this journey of adventures. Lauren: I love that! I love you calling it a journey of adventures. I know a little bit about you already so I would love for you to talk a bit about how you brought your personality and your husband's personality into those adventures. Sarah: Yeah, when we met we just like kind of connected. We both grew up camping with our families, weÕre both from Minnesota. And that just like became the core foundation of our relationship. Like that first summer when we met five years ago, we were camping, backpacking every single weekend that we could find time. And it just kind of like became our lifestyle. And we started to realize that this lifestyle is so refreshing for us because on the weekends we were just with one another and just having like this grand adventure of a time away from the 40-hour workweek. So having that, just being able to connect with each other on weekends, I feel like really made our relationship stronger at the beginning and made our relationship move really quick because we didn't have the distractions of day to day things. We weren't going to like movies, we weren't going to dinner. We weren't going bowling. We were just out in nature with zero distractions. It was just such an intimate experience to have with someone. And I started just kind of journaling about it. I love writing and he kind of loves the editing process of it. And then he would start editing the photos and it turned into a blog that we wanted to share with family and friends. Lauren: I think that's kind of the dichotomy of a relationship where the beginning of it is very much you want to keep it just between the two of you and keep it so safe and precious. But then there comes the point where youÕre like, ÒI just want to go on the rooftop and tell everyone!Ó Sarah: Yeah, yeah, totally. Like when you're that excited about something sharing it is what you want to do. Lauren: So fast forwarding a little bit, I would love to know how you brought the outdoors and nature and the fact that you had begun that relationship that way into your engagement or your wedding, just the beginning of the wedding planning process. Sarah: I love that your podcast É it can be about like wedding traditions and stuff. And I think the rings are a big part of traditions and weddings. I am not a very traditional person in the sense that I didn't have a ring in mind. Jewelry and rings just aren't my thing. So I kind of told my husband before we even got engaged, ÒI really don't need a wedding ring. You can just get me something super cheap. I don't need this fancy wedding ring.Ó But he wanted to get the ring so we did get the ring. But the funny thing is now I don't even wear that ring! But once we started the whole wedding planning, we just knew like we wanted the outdoors to be a part of it. So even with like our engagement photos, he carved a piece of wood that said ÒShe said yes!Ó And then we knew we wanted the wedding to be outside. So it was gonna have to be in the summer here in Minnesota, cuz that's É yeah, we weren't gonna have like a winter wedding. And we wanted it to be relaxed. We're both very, like laid back relaxed people for the most part. So when we found our venue, it's called Eko Backen in Minnesota, it just felt so right because it had like a giant rolling hill, and people could mini putt-putt golf there, and there was a bonfire that people could have, and it just gave this very laid back feel. I didn't want our wedding guests to come and have like the feel where they have a specific place to sit and have this very rigid schedule and just feel a little uncomfortable. I wanted people to be comfortable. So I think by having this open space and open venue, that allowed for a very comfortable feeling for our guests. And I mean our guests talked about our wedding like months after about how much fun they had, because there was things for like all ages to do, which was awesome. During the ceremony we had little jars with dirt from each of our parentsÕ garden in them. And we planted a plum tree during our reception as kind of like a unity thing. Instead of like the unity candle or something, we planted a tree because we knew we wanted that unity to be something that was going to be useful to us. We like things that have a purpose so planting a tree made sense to us because it's now in our yard and it's growing plums. Well, it hasn't grown plums yet, but in a few years it's gonna have plums. It takes time! Lauren: So when you were considering what you were going to wear for the day, were the outdoors in mind? Were you afraid of dirt? Did you have like fears or were you just sort of like free flow? Sarah: Yeah, I would say I was pretty like free flowing about it. I definitely wanted the white wedding dress but having it get dirty during my ceremony wasn't really a big deal. Actually, I do recall like, a few times where like my bridesmaids and my mom were like, ÒSarah, your wedding dress is like getting dirty. Like we need to like bustle this!Ó And I was like, ÒI really don't care. Like ÒJust let it be!Ó It kind of like stressed me out that they were stressed about it because I was just like, ÒI don't care. I'm having fun, let it be! I'm free flowing! This is my day! Let's just let the dress be dirty. It's okay. I'm only gonna wear it once!Ó And it's still hanging in my closet and there's still dirt on it. And I think that's just like a reminder that that day was like totally É it was totally a reflection of who we are as a couple and especially like my personality being like the free flowing person I am. So I gathered my bridesmaids and we did the traditional like go to a scheduled dress fitting and É or no, not a dress fitting for me because I had already found mine at this point, so let's back up a minute. So my wedding dress, I knew I didn't want to spend a lot of money on it because I'm a pretty frugal person. So my wedding dress was found at a secondhand shop. I knew I wanted to get it used because I felt like getting a new expensive wedding dress just wasn't É it made no sense to me. So we went to a secondhand bride-to-be consignment store, and I was with my two bridesmaids. They grabbed some dresses that they thought I might like and I ended up trying three dresses on, but the dress that I actually went with was the very first one that I tried on. It was just like, I É I really loved it. It was like a flowing dress, it was white, it had like some floral at the top, like with a little bit of color in it; there was a little bit of lace on the back. And I didn't have like any of that specific stuff in mind when I went to get the dress. The only thing was, I wanted to get a secondhand dress. That's like the really the only like thing I had in mind. It was a free flowing dress and when my friends saw it on me they're like, ÒYeah, that's like totally something you would wear.Ó Lauren: What were the elements that made you go ÒThis is it!Ó Like ÒThat's the one.Ó Were there specific things about it other than your friends saying that's something you would wear? Sarah: I think it was the way that it like fit on me and the flowiness of it. Like it wasn't like super tight. It gave me like a, it made me feel relaxed in a way. Like it didn't have like a super tight É tight waist or anything. So I knew I would be able to have that relaxed feel in it. And I knew I wanted to like dance a lot at my wedding so I felt like this was gonna be a really good dancing dress, too. Lauren: Um hmm. Sarah: And like for me the wedding dress wasn't like the É the key component of the day either. So I think that's another reason that I wasn't like wanting to go to like a million shops. I looked at the wedding day more as like this is my husband and I getting married and all of our friends and family coming together. It's more so about everyone being there for us and us like giving a reflection of our happiness as a couple. It wasn't necessarily about what I was wearing. But at the same time I was really comfortable in what I was wearing and that added to it. Lauren: Mm hmm. You started to talk a little bit about your bridesmaids, that process. Sarah: Yes! Lauren: You started and then sort of backtracked, but I am curious. Sarah: Yeah. So we went to a bridal shop and it was just the very typical like, ÒOkay, what style dress do you want for your bridesmaids? What color do you want for your bridesmaids? What designer do you want for your bridesmaids?Ó And I don't even know wedding designers. I didn't know what to say! That stressed me out! And they wanted me to answer all these very specific questions. That was too detailed for me! Like I had all my bridesmaids there and I was just like ÒGirls, I can't do this!Ó And it was like at that moment when we were in that bridal shop that I was just like, ÒYou girls should pick what you want!Ó A lot of my bridesmaids, they're different sizes. And there was a couple dresses that one of the employees brought out and he was like, ÒHow about this?Ó and like there was just like a couple comments from my bridesmaids that were like, ÒI'm not gonna feel good in that. I have really big boobs.Ó ÒI'm really short, that's not gonna look good on me!Ó And it was just like that moment and that realization that I had that I was like, ÒI want you guys to feel happy too!Ó Like yeah, this is my day but like a huge part of who I am is letting people around me feel happy and good about themselves too. So it was that moment that I was like ÒYou girls need to pick what you want.Ó I didn't give them rules for their bridesmaids dresses really. I just said ÒPick what you're comfortable in.Ó And that was another part of just like, I wanted them to also be able to use that dress more than once. And some of those girls still wear those dresses that they picked out to this day. I mean lately, no, with COVID, of course, but yeah, they still wear their dresses. And it's definitely a huge reflection of, yeah, like the type of person that I am and just wanting others to be happy around me too. And that's a huge part of my husband too, because like, in planning our wedding, weÕre such hospitable people that we wanted everybody to be comfortable. And that goes with having a comfortable venue for everybody, and just making sure that people were happy. Lauren: And I think itÕs such a fresh and lovely way of going into such a stressful experience for some people that you didn't do that. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, definitely. There wasn't a lot of stress around our wedding. I think the biggest stress about it was trying to keep it budget friendly. Just because it's a huge part of our lifestyle. And just like trying to shop around for the best deals that we could get, and that had us ending up doing a lot of DIY things. Like my husband brews his own beer so he home brewed beer for the wedding. And we brought that to the wedding. And the centerpieces, he collects beer bottles just like for fun. So he had a ton of them. Those were our centerpieces. And then in the beer bottles we put pictures of us on our adventures, just like camping adventures, and put a little caption on the back that had the location of where that photo was taken just for like our guests to kind of see. We made guest books, little books that were on each table that the guests could write in and give us marriage advice, and we open one of those on each wedding anniversary. Lauren: That's lovely! Sarah: Yeah, and I crafted those with my bridesmaids. And that was just like a really É it's a really cool memory to have from our wedding and it's a good reminder of why we got married in the first place. It's like, really great to read that on our anniversary. Lauren: Marriage and tradition and all of that seem so sort of exterior to what you and your husband did. And that's okay, you have your own traditions, your own way of working. And that's a good thing. So beyond the tradition of white dress and all of these sort of overly expensive things that go into a wedding, why in particular did you decide to get married in the first place? Sarah: Ooooh, why did we get married in the first place? Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's like É it's kind of like, it seems like the thing you do. You meet the love of your life, and then you get engaged, and then you get married, and then along comes baby! Like, that's just kind of what our society tells us to do. So I mean, I, you know, thinking about it, maybe part of it is just the societal norms. That's what you do, you get married. We knew we wanted to be together the rest of our lives, because yeah, it's like, so many people are just cohabitating now, and that's totally okay too. A lot of people don't get married. But I think for us, it's just like, the legality of it. I think itÕs a really important thing to have that legal document stating that you're married. Knowing that youÕre both in this together. I mean it makes a lot of sense financially as well. I mean, I'm not married for the finances, that sounds bad! But like, there's a pressure that people should get married. I mean, I have friends who have been dating someone for like a year. And I'm like, ÒWhen are you getting engaged?Ó I'm pressuring them! And it's É yeah, I think that's just what society tells us. So that's É that's what we did. Lauren: Um hmm. I know thatÕs sort of a like, sort of an out of the box question but I, you know, throw a fun, like, ÒWhyÕd you get married?Ó question in there! And I think the reason it came up was, you had mentioned sort of these messages that people left you on your wedding day that reminded you of why you got married. And I guess that's what I'm also É I'm looking for is what are the messages that are reminding you of why you got married beyond like, the legality and the practicality of it? Sarah: One of them is just ÒRemember to laugh.Ó Remember not to, like, be too É don't take life too seriously. You are with this person for a reason. They make you happy. Remember to laugh together. And just the small things, like, ÒNever go to bed angry.Ó There's, you know, like you get frustrated. You get mad at your spouse when you're living with them. But never going to bed angry, I think that's really good advice. And we've read that advice a couple times now in those books. I mean, you never know what's going to happen in life. I think just making sure that you go to bed kind of on the same page as your spouse is always really important, so I love that advice when people give it to us. Lauren: Weddings are not a practical experience but yours seemed to be practical, but in all of the most magical dreamlike ways. You know, it was. É it was a practical joyful wedding because you didn't put on you know, a million dollar this and a million dollar that. Sarah: Yeah absolutely. And going back to the practicality of it, I don't even think I mentioned the way that my husband and his groomsmen dressed. I think a while ago you asked about our personalities and stuff. And like, I'm a very laid back person I already mentioned and he's laid back too. But he likes knowing what to expect, so that's why he's our podcast editor. And that's why I'm our interviewer when we do podcasts! I'm free flowing! So he did not like the idea of just telling his groomsmen to pick what they want. He spent many, many hours deciding on an outfit for them. So they ended up all wearing like plaid shirts, and like a white vest with jeans. And that was a pretty practical thing too, because that they can use that plaid shirt and that vest for many other occasions. And it was a pair of jeans. Everybody has a pair of jeans, so they didn't need to get new pants or anything. And the shoes, were just brown shoes. Most guys have brown shoes. So yeah, that was like a really practical thing that we did with the wedding too. But yeah, I mean, just like being practical about the whole day was definitely something we had in mind going into wedding planning. I mean we did still spend like probably eight to ten grand on our wedding. It wasn't a super cheap wedding but when you look at it all that is cheap compared to what people spend on weddings. But we knew we didn't want to spend like a crazy amount of money on it. This is the start of our life together. Why pour millions of dollars into one day? It just didn't seem practical. Lauren: Did you know that the definition of practical is likely to succeed or be effective in real circumstances? Sarah: Hey I like that! What a cool definition! Oh my gosh! Lauren: How appropriate! So I would love to know do you think that there are any parallels between preparing for backpacking or preparing for a hike or preparing for going into the outdoors for an extended period of time and a marriage? Sarah: Hmm, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. Like, when you're preparing for a backpacking trip and a hiking trip, like you can do all the preparation in the world. I mean, you can pack everything you need, pack all your food, pack all your gear, get the right shoes, get the right pants, you can have all of that. But you don't know what you're going to run into on the trail, you don't know what challenges you're gonna face. And that's so similar to what life is about, you don't know what challenges you're gonna face in life. Our podcast Hiking Thru Life is about where people's journey in life has taken them based on what they've done in their past and like how the outdoors influences them. But yeah, it's absolutely relatable to a relationship because I think if you're confident in who you are marrying, if you have no doubts about it, then you're going to be able to get through all the struggles together. And that's like, if you are confident in all the stuff that's in your pack, you'll be able to survive that hike. If there's going to be an extreme storm, you'll get through it. But if you're not confident in who you're marrying, then that's like a big, big thing that you need to contemplate before you walk down the aisle. And I think that goes back to our society also. Our society pressures people to get married. And it's not always for love. A lot of people get married because they just want their dream wedding. They're not even thinking about who they're actually marrying. They're just getting married because they already have their wedding planned out. Whereas when you're with the right person, the wedding day doesn't even necessarily have to matter. You're just kind of doing the wedding day for fun. But you need to keep in mind the confidence level of your relationship. If you're not confident in your relationship, if you're not confident with your pack, then double check that before ya, É before you walk down the aisle or walk down that trail. Lauren: How did picking out what you chose to wear down the aisle help you get down the aisle the same way you'd pack for a hike? Sarah: I think having something that I was comfortable in. I think when people go to try on wedding dresses, especially like a tailored shop, they're gonna be like, ÒOh, you need this like bustled tighter or whatever.Ó I mean, I did get some alterations, but it wasn't to the point of being so tight and not being able to breathe. So I guess I would say like yeah, I was very comfortable in my wedding dress so that allowed me to feel good going down the aisle. I was still definitely nervous walking down the aisle! Like it's nerve racking to have É we had like 250 people at our wedding, it was a big wedding. So it's nerve racking to have all of those people looking at you. And you're the center of attention for that time and all the eyes are locked on you. I definitely had nervous giggles going down the aisle. And I remember my mom was crying and I was just like, ÒWhy are you crying?Ó because I was just like looking for something to say, because I felt so awkward! There's just É all these eyes were on me. I needed to like say something at that time! Lauren: Tension release! Sarah: Yeah, absolutely! Absolutely. My bridesmaids were like really helpful too in that sense. They helped me with my makeup. That was another thing we did to like have a frugal wedding. I didn't hire a makeup artist. I didn't hire a hairstylist. Luckily, I have talented friends who were able to help me with my hair and my makeup. And they were able to do that for me and make me feel confident and nice on my day. Even if I didn't have makeup on and my hair done, I still would have felt confident. But yeah, it's my wedding day. Like I wanted to look like a pretty fairy tale girl. You know, it's your wedding day. You should! Lauren: Absolutely! Absolutely! Sarah: My husband I even joked we could just get married in the woods, like in our hiking gear. I think we talked about that. But I think at the end of the day getting ready and just feeling like that princess is kind of part of the day. And I did want to experience that. So I think it would have been different had we not, but like if for some reason I couldn't have had that dress for whatever reason, I still would have gotten married in whatever I was wearing. But the dress, it's part of the experience. Lauren: We had a lovely guest on a few episodes ago who is a psychologist and she sort of talks about that experience. ItÕs called enclothed cognition. When you put something on, it makes you feel that way and it gives you a confidence boost, but also puts you in the in the place and the mindset to be able to do the thing that you're about to go do. The same way a doctor puts on a doctor's coat. You know, we then see them in that role immediately. So when you put on a wedding gown, or you put on that suit, you're in that role now. Psychologically it helps you move forward. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally! Totally. It does. It's a huge psychological thing that you're so right about that. I think I listened to episode. Lauren: What advice and what learning experience could you maybe share with someone who's going through this process now? Sarah: When you're going into wedding planning, just be true to yourself and what you and your spouse want. I think it's, it's a partnership that you're entering together. And I think a lot of the times it's just the woman doing a lot of the wedding planning, but my spouse, he was very, just very in tune with planning the wedding with me, which made me feel really good and made me feel even more excited to be planning this special day with someone. So I think when you're planning your wedding, make sure you're doing it together. Don't just have the soon to be bride doing all the work. Because when you're doing it together it's going to be that much more meaningful, and that much more of a reflection of who you are as a couple. And yeah, just be confident in who you're marrying. Like I said, I've shared like, if you're not confident about it, then really look deep into what you're doing. Lauren: I think thatÕs some great advice. Key advice to anyone whoÕs getting married any time soon and I'm so happy that we got to talk! I would love to know where our listeners can find you and Hiking Thru Life. Sarah: Yeah, I would love for people to come check Hiking Thru Life out! We are hiking through, through is spelled T-H-R-U, life dot net. You can also find us on Instagram. And I just started another blog that's part of Hiking Thru Life but it's a parenting blog so you can find it at parenting dot hiking thru life dot net. And our podcast is on the Hiking Thru Life page so check us out! I'd love for you guys to come follow our journey.