Ep 4 - Focusing on Advocating for the Individual SLP
[00:00:00] Announcer: Welcome to SLP Learning Series, a podcast series presented by SpeechTherapyPD. com. The SLP Learning Series explores various topics of speech language pathology. Each season dives deeper into a topic with a different host and guests who are leaders in the field. Some topics include stuttering, AAC, sports concussion, Teletherapy ethics and more.
[00:00:42] Each episode has an accompanying audio course on speech therapy pd.com and is available for 0.1 ASHA. CEUs now come along with us as we look closer into the many topics of speech language pathology.
[00:01:04] Jessica Hunnemeder: Welcome to the podcast miniseries advocacy for the whole SLP presented by SpeechTherapyPD. com. Thank you for joining us for our number four episode, Focusing on Advocating for the Individual SLP. This episode is offered for 0. 1 ASHA CEUs. We are your hosts, Jess Hunnemeder and 
[00:01:29] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Stephanie Reed-Fodi. 
[00:01:31] Jessica Hunnemeder: And we are co owners of Speech Story Studios.
[00:01:34] You can find us on Instagram at Speech Story Studios. And yeah, I guess we're going to get started with some disclosures. So Steph, I'll let you go for it. 
[00:01:45] Stephanie Reed-Foti: All right, so first for maybe some new listeners, we'll just quickly introduce each other. So I'm going to introduce Our other co host, Ms. Jessica Hunnemeder.
[00:01:53] She holds her master's and undergraduate degrees from Kean University with a diverse background in early intervention, school based services, and subacute rehab. She currently focuses on evidence based therapy through in person and teletherapy methods. She is licensed in multiple states, including Pennsylvania, California, Florida, Alaska, Hawaii, and Wyoming.
[00:02:17] You're going to add a few more there along the way, I'm going to assume. 
[00:02:20] Jessica Hunnemeder: I mean, I'm just hoping for a contract to go through. So we'll see about that. 
[00:02:25] Stephanie Reed-Foti: All right. Jess emphasizes cultural sensitivity in her practice and has presented on advocacy, teletherapy strategies, auditory processing disorders, and hearing screening in college students.
[00:02:38] Outside of work, she explores her current home base of Hawaii with her husband as a travel content creator. 
[00:02:45] Jessica Hunnemeder: Yay. Okay. 
[00:02:48] Well, I will introduce Dr. Stephanie Reed-Foti. She is a New Jersey state licensed and ASHA certified SLP with a decade of experience. She earned her Bachelor of Arts, Masters of Arts, and Doctorate in Speech Language Pathology from Kean University.
[00:03:05] Stephanie has extensive experience with children across various settings, specializing in stuttering, language disorders, auditory processing disorders, pragmatic language disorders, and Alternative Augmentative Communication. She provides training for parents and educational staff and has worked with children diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders, apraxia of speech, cerebral palsy, Down syndrome, and other conditions.
[00:03:28] Yay!
[00:03:32] Stephanie Reed-Foti: That describes us to a T, right? I would say, I would say. That little, the elevator speech, right? You gotta get everything in. Everything in. The little thing. And then quickly, just to go over our financial and non financial disclosures. For me, my financial disclosure is I'm a co owner of Speech Story Studios and receive a speaker's fee from Speech Therapy PD.
[00:03:55] And then for my non-financial disclosures, I am an ASHA member and a New Jersey Speech Language and Hearing Association member. 
[00:04:03] Jessica Hunnemeder: Fantastic. And for myself, I am the owner of Pangea Speech Therapy, LLC co-owner of Speech Story Studios, and I also received a speaker fee from speech therapy pd.com. And my non-financial disclosure is that I'm also an ASHA member and Hawaii Speech Language Hearing Association member and.
[00:04:22] You may all notice we have a wonderful, wonderful person joining us. I'm so, so, so excited to introduce Margaret Curley. She has worked as a speech language pathologist face to face and teletherapist for more than 20 plus years. She has worked in various settings, including the private sector and public schools across seven different states.
[00:04:44] For the past three years, she has maintained a management and educational consultant role. Emphasizing special education staffing. She understands the high demands of SLPs and SLPAs or SLIPOs in California today and how to be your best advocate when working with staffing agencies. Disclosures from Margaret is that she receives an honorarium from speechtherapypd.
[00:05:06] com for her appearance and she does not have any non financial relevant Relationships at this time. Oh my gosh, Margaret, Margaret, Margaret, Margaret. So Margaret first of all, I'm obsessed with you because you're adorable. 
[00:05:24] Margaret Curley: Mutual 
[00:05:25] Jessica Hunnemeder: clearly, and I just, when we were thinking about doing this podcast and we kind of laid things out.
[00:05:31] So for everybody who's joining us now, here's what we'll do. We'll go over what we've talked about before and how we ended up here. So, 1st, part of this, we wanted to just talk about advocacy and this month is May. It is national speech and hearing. Month. So what better time to talk about it? Talk about advocacy.
[00:05:51] It is something super near and dear to my heart. Margaret and I have many, many conversations as do Steph and I. And so we started with doing the national level. So week one was national, week two, and imagine we're a funnel. So Steph and I are doing hand motions to show a funnel, if you're listening to us.
[00:06:11] So national then state level where we had The awesome Corey Reagan join us from New York schools public schools in Staten Island. Is she Staten Island? And she talked about state level and things about different states, right? And then last week, We had Courtney Gebhardt talk with us about workplace trends, things in the workplace.
[00:06:38] She is an awesome business owner, clinic owner, works at a university. I mean, has school contracts. She does, she does everything and she's super involved. So she was perfect to talk about with the workplace. You, my dear are perfect to talk about the SLP for so many reasons,
[00:06:58] Margaret Curley: individual, it goes upwards and it goes down, right? The funnel goes both directions. 
[00:07:03] Jessica Hunnemeder: It does. It really does. And, but for my little mind, I liked big and then little, but it kind of, I mean, I feel like at this point. The things that we're saying go hand in hand, right? So the big things that we came out of this work, get involved, take care of yourself, talk to people.
[00:07:23] I would say those would be the three big things. 
[00:07:26] Margaret Curley: Absolutely. Talk to people, talk to people, talk to people, join Facebook pages and just talk more and more and more. Because, and I don't ever say things as wagging a finger at universities who are working really hard, but think we all graduate and there's still so much that needs to be learned, not just about our students and advocating for our students, but about ourselves as business people as, you know, as professionals, and I'm excited for the future because business people have been doing this for Forever and business in universities have been doing this forever, and I see a future for all of us.
[00:08:26] Educators speech pathologists to realize everyone has to be a business person. Every, every area of a job comes down to it being a business. Nothing is successful without having some kind of business mindset. 
[00:08:50] Jessica Hunnemeder: Which is funny because I didn't take a business class. In school. Did you? 
[00:08:56] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Oh, no. Yeah. There's no business class.
[00:09:00] I learned everything in theory and how to do all that, but no, there was not one class on even just learning how to advocate for yourself or taking care of yourself. We did have an option to get a counseling course, but that was like a 1. 5 and I'm like, Oh, I don't have time for that one, but maybe I should have done that one too.
[00:09:19] Who knows? 
[00:09:21] Jessica Hunnemeder: I know. Yeah. 
[00:09:22] No. It. It goes, it goes back. It goes back to kind of being able to market for yourself for sure, for sure. So okay, so let's take a step back. I know you've got like this wealth of information. You've been in the field for a long time. Can you talk about where you started? Give us your life.
[00:09:40] Who are you? Who is Margaret Curley?
[00:09:43] Margaret Curley: Margaret Curley was this little old speech pathologist who worked in New York, and then she moved out to Long Island and continued to be a little speech pathologist working on site, face to face, With my early intervention with my preschoolers with my school age, and I did that for years and simultaneously I also got married had three children and always loved the flexibility of being a speech pathologist, while also choosing to.
[00:10:22] Raise my family and take on as many students as I wanted every year, you know, so that was the bulk of what I thought my existence was. Then, I went to my director and I said I need something else. It's time for a change. And she went, Ooh, we don't really have, like, we have worker bees and I was a worker bee.
[00:10:53] And she's like, there really isn't any big change here, any big promotion or anything like that. And she said, however, I have a friend and this was. Going back more than 10 years ago, she said, I have a friend who's a speech pathologist and she dipped her toe into something called teletherapy. And I 
[00:11:15] Stephanie Reed-Foti: What is that?, 
[00:11:15] Margaret Curley: what is that?
[00:11:18] So, long story short, I immediately went home, I googled it, I reached out, and I am not impulsive in any shape or form. So, the first year that I did it, I stayed with my friend. School who I've been working with for years and years part time. I cut back my hours and I would do it in the morning in New York.
[00:11:44] And then in the afternoon, which was California time. I did morning California their teletherapy. With the company, the one of the first companies who did teletherapy and that's where I found my mentor. I learned all of my skills and the second year, the second school year, I did it full time and I never looked back.
[00:12:12] Amen. And yeah, and since then, you know, in 10 years time, that's when I. Got seven other state licenses, which I encourage anybody who's interested. I also learned so much, not just about speech pathology, but about the country in general, and how education is a local state run. So something I say to all of my speech pathologists that I work with.
[00:12:46] Is every state is different. Every district is different. Every school can be different because the principals are different and they have their own what works best for them and a special ed director is involved, but you're very local to the principal, the vice principal, the school psychologist. So it is.
[00:13:12] So because of that, and having seven state licenses, I learned so much about how small it is, how small it can be, how different it can be. So that, I think that was longer than an elevator ride. 
[00:13:30] Jessica Hunnemeder: Necessary. Necessary to build us up. Because you have the experience, you have the years of being in one spot and then transitioning into another, you know, piece.
[00:13:42] And if we're thinking about advocacy for the SLP, I mean, you noticed that you needed a change, right? Mm-Hmm. , you noticed that you weren't getting the same kind of feeling staying in the same place. Right. 
[00:13:56] Margaret Curley: Yeah. And I've said it. I think I've said it to you just before when I was doing my early intervention and and school job.
[00:14:06] It was it wasn't lonely, but I wasn't talking enough to other speech pathologists. Especially the home care group, and only when I moved into teletherapy, and then after teletherapy, I became a clinical manager. Did I talk more and more to professionals, and that's when I started. The advocacy and that's you can't help, but learn when you're talking to other professional, 
[00:14:39] Jessica Hunnemeder: I feel like I'm a bobblehead again, meaning I'm agreeing with everything you're saying.
[00:14:42] And I'm like, yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, speaking of advocacy step. Let's bring in our first question. 
[00:14:52] Stephanie Reed-Foti: So we like to ask all our guests, just a great starter off question of what does advocacy mean to you? 
[00:14:59] Margaret Curley: Well, the first thing that pops into my head is advocacy. From day one, you go to grad school, you advocate for your students, right?
[00:15:12] That's what we're taught to do. How to be your the best advocate for your students and for the families and you know what that means is, let me bring that into being a professional advocate for yourself is critical. Recognizing and speaking up when the students aren't getting the benefits because your caseload is too big because the paperwork is overwhelming you.
[00:15:40] So advocacy is Not just being the advocate for the students, but being the advocate for yourself when, when in this time period, things are very stressful. 
[00:15:55] Stephanie Reed-Foti: I like that, Margaret. So now we start to transition, because I agree, in grad school, we're taught to advocate for our clients, not about for ourselves.
[00:16:03] And I think now, especially in the post pandemic life, I've noticed, especially the last few years, There's so much stress on us and I wonder if like, with your life experience, have you seen that shift beforehand? Or like, when did you start realizing like, I also need to take care of myself as something, not just my clients, you know, did you have like a moment of that or just a buildup or?
[00:16:28] Margaret Curley: I think you're right. I think it's been very recent. My mother in law is a, you know, a gen ed teacher and she's retired now, but it's the old memory of, well, of course you have, you're a teacher. Of course you do marking papers at night and you cut things while you're watching television. There is. Fond memories built into that process, but it's also the advocacy of when do you as a teacher, speech pathologist, occupational therapy, when do you get a break from your job?
[00:17:09] I mean, we're not doing this. We shouldn't be living this 24 7 business people don't do it 24 7. But it's expected. 
[00:17:19] Jessica Hunnemeder: Yeah, I just I'm high fiving. High fiving. You could not catch me. At any time, if I am not clocked in, you will not find me doing anything speech related. You won't, you just won't because because of that exact reason.
[00:17:35] Do you have a chance? And we've talked about this stuff and I, we had another presentation. You can find it on speech therapy, pd. com about preventing burnout because that's 1 of the things is, you know, you, we would spend time outside of school when we 1st started. Cutting out things and finding the word lists and putting things together won't be caught dead doing it now.
[00:17:56] No, thank you I have not paid for that and I think telling people like hey, you have to be aware your time stops at Whatever time right and that should be in every Situation in every career. I follow somebody on instagram who is literally hysterical. She She talks about how, you know, about the same thing about how, like, when my time is done, then it's done, but she doesn't need these really funny skits.
[00:18:23] So, I mean, for me, it's, it's better, but truthfully, like, that it has to be said, and I'm so glad you said it that way to Time has to stop. We have to do that. No more. 
[00:18:34] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Now have you found, because again, I try to tie it back. Like I, I'm sure we all said, like I bought my own personal laminar. I still have that laminating thing.
[00:18:42] Even just it, I wake up in the middle of the night. I'm like, I'm thinking about this. I'm thinking about my clients. Oh, I had this great idea. I want to try this. And it's just like, How do you start shifting that mindset to where it's like, it's okay not to, to say like to time for yourself, you know, sometimes even I struggle with it, even though I like, I'm like, I'm much better at it now, but I feel guilty sometimes I'm like, and my.
[00:19:07] Being selfish for doing that. So I'm curious, Margaret, if you have any other suggestions on how to start shifting that like to not feeling guilty. Yeah, 
[00:19:15] Margaret Curley: I continue to struggle with it because my profession, I've always been happy with my profession. I continue to be happy with my profession. I, I don't feel burnt out, but I definitely feel the load, you know, and the only way to get through that checklist of that load is to, first of all, walk away from it and, and, you know, take the dog for a walk or, you know, Because I'm doing teletherapy now in the middle of the day during lunch hour, I won't take lunch.
[00:19:58] I'll take a shower and I'll be like, okay, I'm, I'm ready again. 
[00:20:05] Jessica Hunnemeder: That's so funny. I do the exact same thing. Literally the same thing because I'm like 5 o'clock in the morning, 6 or like 4 or 5. Right. And so. Lunch for me is like nine o'clock, but that's when I'll eat breakfast or whatever. And yeah, no, I'm taking a shower for sure.
[00:20:21] Cause then it kind of breaks up your day. And I think there is some science out there that says that you need to walk away from a situation for sure. So totally agree with that. Totally agree. And then. I think the other piece to this is, is how do you say no? When do you feel comfortable saying no? Like, what situations would you say warrants a no from you?
[00:20:43] Margaret Curley: I've been, again, I feel like I keep on saying, I've just recently learned to, but I'm definitely on the newer side because I, I believe that we are all nurturers, which is one of the reasons why we chose the profession we did. And it's just like, what's that saying about putting the mask on, on the airplane?
[00:21:11] You know, you put it on yourself. And I think that applies to. Us and our job. So, yeah, I mean, I think about it all the time. Okay, stop it. Literally, I have to say to myself, okay, move on. Stop it. Yep. 
[00:21:35] Jessica Hunnemeder: Yep. Move on to something else. 
[00:21:39] Margaret Curley: And on top of it being, I love a good template, like being good and quick with your paperwork.
[00:21:49] Because this time of the field demand efficiency and I have become the queen of templates. You sure have. 
[00:22:02] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Okay, I like it. 
[00:22:04] Jessica Hunnemeder: I love it. 
[00:22:05] Stephanie Reed-Foti: So I guess that kind of segues into our next topic of taking care of ourselves. Obviously, when you worked before teletherapy, you talked with a lot of other people who are not SLPs.
[00:22:18] And just like me, I'm the only SLP in my building. And I know definitely, I feel like a lot of times I'm just talking about myself because everyone's like, They have their assumptions of me and it's no, I don't do everything. I'm not this like perfect person or just like you fix everything. And I'm like, Oh, you do that.
[00:22:37] Right. And it's like, Oh, or yes, but no. And what have, have you found any strategies of talking to other people who are not SLPs and. Advocating for yourself in a positive way, because again, I'm sure in many situations, we're the only SLP and it's like, yeah, pick your battles necessarily. Majority of like, you're with other educators or other physicians or other, you know, rehab people.
[00:23:02] How do you get that done? You know, 
[00:23:04] Margaret Curley: I find that much of it is just based on the fact that They don't know. And so they, they assume, Oh no, that's a, that's a speech thing. And then you just have to know it's, it's, it's really not. And just giving them a better idea, and I'm sure that we must do the same things, or I did the same things when it came to occupational therapy, you know, in early intervention, it's like, Oh, I think this, this little kiddo needs Oh, yeah.
[00:23:37] Not yet, or maybe worth watching, but you know, No reason to jump into it quickly. And I think that everybody is used to a student having speech. If all else fails. They're not well in school. Let's give them speech for whatever reason. I can't tell you how many times I've had a group of, you know, let's say, to language goal students, one Arctic, and then one pragmatic social, and I'm like, who has regular Jen and.
[00:24:21] Level learning abilities, and I'm like, they're just being compounded with being annoying because they are peers are struggling with something and I'm thinking, no, that pragmatics has to be in more of a social group. I know that they have a pragmatic goal, but they're not getting what they need. You know, I want to advocate for them.
[00:24:49] They're not getting what they need in this group with these. Let's find them a social group, a social, you know, a social worker social group. 
[00:24:59] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Mm hmm. 
[00:25:01] Jessica Hunnemeder: That makes sense to me, right? 
[00:25:04] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Yeah, I know. I feel like I struggle with that a lot, too. Like, I work in the middle school, so I'm like, this time now we're trying to get the kids, like, weed them out of speech.
[00:25:14] Like, the kids who still, their, their kids will still need it, but like, you know, not every kid needs it. And it's like almost harder because the parents just, like, they're so used to having it. Like, what do you mean now? And I'm like, You know, and again, trying to like, let's find another outlet of like, let's try this.
[00:25:29] We don't need me. The goal is not to need me. And it's a good thing. Like it's almost, you have to like give that positive and it's hard for them to let go because I feel like we are a very comforting to a like, Oh, but I need you. I'm like, Oh, you don't, you got this. 
[00:25:47] Jessica Hunnemeder: I always say to my parents too, I just had two kids.
[00:25:51] One who is like super excited to be out of speech, like thrilled, a middle seller, thrilled, right? He was like, yes, don't have to see you anymore. I was like, okay, fine. Bye. And then another kid who has gone through tons of trauma, tons of trauma. And I, I think almost that he felt like we, because my slipper would be with me too.
[00:26:15] He felt that we would be more of a. Social worker or a counselor, because sometimes this kid just needed to talk. We just assessed him and he does not qualify for us anymore. And we told him, and I knew he would be, I mean, it's great. Steph is giving a thumbs up because it is, it's wonderful. And I always say to the kids, like, Hey, the point of speech is to get out of speech.
[00:26:38] I could probably, I should probably get it. Like tattoo. The point of speech is to get right. On the chest, right? Just, just right there. I was just saying I would buy that t shirt. No. Oh! No, I'm not going to get a tattoo. I'm just talking about a t shirt. I'm going to get it tattooed. But anyways. So, this kid was so upset.
[00:27:01] So upset because He, he came and like, he felt comfortable with us and obviously it's kind of heartbreaking because you have to kind of bring that relationship. But at the same time, like, sorry, bud, you got to be with your peers. You are not going to be with, you know, us. You're going to learn. You're going to grow.
[00:27:18] And I think also preparing kids. Or students or clients to not need us would be more helpful because, as you said, Margaret, we're nurturing. We're nurturing people possibly. And I think I think that's that's tough for us to kind of also let go as well. Yeah, so that's a really, really good point.
[00:27:39] Really really good point. 
[00:27:40] Margaret Curley: Yes, I think that's something that we struggle with is discharging students. Oh, yeah, for ourselves, too. And the way I talk about it with my parents and with my students is you're graduating from speech like this is a separation of graduating speech. 
[00:28:00] Jessica Hunnemeder: I'm still trying to come up with ways to, like, what can I do for a kid to graduate them?
[00:28:07] I've started saying that in the past couple years. You're graduating. You're graduating. What do you do? Like, what should we do to graduate a kiddo from speech? What do you recommend? 
[00:28:17] Margaret Curley: That's so hard because every child, you know, like every school district, I feel like every child is different. And I worry about them when they graduate because they, we have a lot of students who still struggle in their classes and they might have graduated from speech, but, but I worry about them in a classroom of, you know, 25 students in.
[00:28:45] Whatever in social studies or science or ELA. And I think. That, I don't know, you know, what do you do for them? I want to celebrate it, but I also, I'm that worry ward in the corner going, you know, like, speak up in class when you don't understand something or, you know, , you know, or Mm-Hmm. Whisper in the parent's ear that would watch their grades, make sure that their grades don't drop because maybe they do need a resource room, like Mm-Hmm.
[00:29:18] they have graduated from the ability to understand and communicate language, but that doesn't guarantee that they can digest quick enough information in X, y, and Z class. 
[00:29:35] Jessica Hunnemeder: Mm-Hmm. . 
[00:29:37] And I think. One of the things to add on to that, one of the cool things about AI is. It could potentially help. Yeah, totally different topic, but I may be able to transcribe.
[00:29:50] It may be able to take things and do, you know, all sorts of things to to help with the processing. The kiddo still has to take that information in for sure. So, but I love that you bring up to, like, talk to the parents, talk to the teachers for me. I'm an email queen when reminding teachers and parents.
[00:30:09] So, that's a great idea for sure. Definitely, and you're right. It's so different. Every state is different. Every, every person is different to take into consideration for sure. 
[00:30:22] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Yeah, I think definitely plugging into what you said, Jesse, the AI, because I think even working with each parent, sometimes just plugging in like, okay, I want to dismiss a kid.
[00:30:30] How can I say this in a different way? And I've used that to say like, okay, like a more difficult parent that, you know, what do you mean they're dismissed? They still can't do this, this, this, and this. And sometimes you're like, okay, well, how do I say this? Like in a, no, they're fine. And it's like, so I've definitely used that as like another way of just.
[00:30:52] Creating another idea of how to say it. 
[00:30:54] You know, we're supposed to be experts on that, but sometimes we still need help. 
[00:30:59] Jessica Hunnemeder: I mean, we're experts on, on therapy. We are experts on therapy and to talk about what we were talking about before we're at, most of us haven't had the business, right? We don't have that business degree, that business exposure.
[00:31:13] I'm just getting started into that business exposure. And it's, Phenomenal, so different, but so similar to what we do, right? Like we should be able to market ourself. We should be able to kind of, get our points across and, and we should be paid for what we're doing 
[00:31:32] Margaret Curley: and wording, you know, the marketing and wording is so important too.
[00:31:37] So I am not a necessarily a. Fast thinker, you know, like on the spot kind of thing. So when a parent is pushing back, I want to have the perfect words. I want to, you know, communicate exactly in the right way. And I think practicing back to business, I think. That marketing aspect exercises that muscle of saying it the right way.
[00:32:09] Jessica Hunnemeder: Agreed. And Margaret sorry, Margaret last week talked about negotiation which, my gosh, if you learn anything, it's how to negotiate. Anything. It's how to negotiate for sure. And she is a master at it. Did you, did you mean Courtney? But who did I say? Margaret. I was like, where was that last week that we were talking about that?
[00:32:36] Well, you're a master too. But yes, Courtney huge master at negotiation. So I think we talked about kind of stopping the speech stuff for a little bit, but, and getting into other aspects, right? So getting into business, marketing, negotiation any, anything outside of speech to just, you know, we got to get out of our bubble, I think for sure.
[00:33:03] For sure. And sorry, Steph. I totally, I totally, Jumped into your question. 
[00:33:07] Stephanie Reed-Foti: No, you're good. 
[00:33:09] Someone to answer. I can see like how you said, like, you take your time to think about how to talk with parents. Have you found any wording or strategies to help to develop that over the years? Because I'm sure even like a new SLP versus novice, there's always new ways to say new things and come up with it.
[00:33:26] Love to hear your thoughts on that. 
[00:33:28] Margaret Curley: For me, it, it's come down to practice, practice, practice and to be woken up at three o'clock in the morning. And for that thought to pop into my head and okay, I'm gonna apparently stay awake for an hour and think about this for a little bit. , I'm not the best sleeper in the world and I definitely, you know, think about work more.
[00:33:49] I, I try not to, but. You know, I do think about work quite a bit and just like I believe in templates, I also believe in scripting and we talk about this with our autistic students, right? Scripting is really just role playing and everything. I believe so much in that and you can't role play without knowing and talking to other, other peers, other friends, other FLPs.
[00:34:18] How do you do it? Because, you know, we're not allowed to record our IEPs, but boy, if I could be in the room and just see how somebody else does theirs, you know, we don't get enough of that experience in, in doing things together and gaining experience from each other in real time. You know, we all do our own thing and go, okay, I think this sounds pretty good.
[00:34:48] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Yeah. Yeah. 
[00:34:50] Jessica Hunnemeder: So, a side note, Margaret and I work together. And that literal thing had just happened. There was an IEP. I was freaking out over and I was like, I just, I just need to see somebody. I need to see it. I need to understand. And the, I think this was, a dual language kiddo, possibly, or I don't remember, but I was, I was, I was losing it.
[00:35:16] And I, we had the opportunity because of the way that this contract is set up that we were able to work together. So I kind of manned the, the zoom and taking notes and Margaret just. did her spiel, she went through everything and it was, gosh, it was so, I was so thankful because I'm a person who needs to see things before, like, jumping in, right?
[00:35:42] Like, if you're gonna jump, I need to, like, watch first and make sure it's gonna be okay, right? So I, that's, it's just such a great point, like, We don't see other SLPs in IEP meetings or those other, you know, medical meetings that happen. I haven't even thought about that. Have you, Steph? 
[00:36:04] Stephanie Reed-Foti: It just so happened.
[00:36:06] So I just came back from maternity leave and the girl who's covering for me, they extended her contract till end of the school year. So we actually had a couple of meetings. We've had a couple of meetings this year and she's like, Again, having her parent and I have great rapport, I said, don't worry, I got this one, but come with me because of course, you know, she's been working with this year and so it's worked out like she's like, wow, Steph, I loved how you just said so calmly and just, you know, talk to that.
[00:36:32] You just talk to the parent. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, she's another parent. She just cares about her kid. I said, yeah, she has this. I name behind her, but I'm like, just talk to her. I said, you know, but I get it from where you're coming from. Like, Oh, it's this parent. Like, you know, but even just, I felt more comfortable having another SLP there.
[00:36:51] I'm like, okay, like I can bounce ideas off of someone and just, it does make a big difference. But yeah, prior to that, it's like, normally when you talk about it, it's just, I called one of my other co SLP's like, what do I say for this? We're like, I'm trying to propose this idea. How could I do it? You know, and I think that's also, you have to eventually find your own.
[00:37:12] it also, like, I know I've worked with a couple SOPs that come in like hot and heavy and they're like, Oh, absolutely not beard. I'm doing it. I have a great SOP I work with. She fears, like she is good at it. It's like quick thinker, like gets to it. I'm like, yeah, you go for it. Me, I cannot do that. I'm like.
[00:37:31] That's not my style, but I think I've learned over the years how to do that. Again, for me, like my style is talking to the parent, like, you know, initiate and say, we're going to work together, you know, and not just like, you know, your expert is your child. I'm a speech therapist, you know, let's work together.
[00:37:48] And 90 percent of the time that works. There are some times it's just, I know it's not. It's a lose lose situation and just strap in and just say, okay, yeah, that's good. We're lucky. What do we do here? 
[00:38:04] Jessica Hunnemeder: Yeah, I think the, the big thing for, for me with that IEP though, was, you know, California, California is rough with their paperwork.
[00:38:16] They are a very litigious state at least in, in from all of the states that I've experienced too. So for me, it was like, oh my gosh, I don't know what paper needs to be signed. I don't know which one needs to be signed. Cause you know, when you're getting into these contracts, they're like, okay, here's this do all of this.
[00:38:32] So Margaret, you've had. Plenty of years of experience with that. And you're like, oh, you need this paper, this paper, this paper, this sign that you got to say it this way. And I'm like, okay, great. I just, give me the template. Let me see.
[00:38:46] So, I advocated for Margaret to help me, right? There you go. There you go. There you go. Okay. Let's go back to the list of questions here. Let's go back to that. So in terms of, cause you're big into teletherapy, like I am question is how has the rise of teletherapy influenced the way clients advocate for their needs?
[00:39:13] So students, parents, how has that happened for you, Margaret? 
[00:39:19] Margaret Curley: That's a fascinating question because I believe that in my experience, their gut is teletherapy and I've worked with principals who are like, I'm not, you know, I don't believe in this. And it was a painful contract because of it. And I always reached out to both the teachers, the principals, as well as the parents come sit on in on a session.
[00:39:55] I really want you to know how I run things, you know, And then during COVID, I got one of the best compliments that I could ever have gotten from a parent because it was COVID it was locked down. She saw me twice a week for week for basically the school year. And she said, This is the first time I've seen my, my son.
[00:40:24] Received services in all of the time that he's been in school. And I think he was, I want to say he was in fourth grade or something. And I am so appreciative of how you're running the session and and the materials that you bring and how engaging you are and how attentive he is. So I've had two parents since then, call me up because I'm one of these again, I'm one of these crazy SLP is I don't use a.
[00:41:00] I don't have a Google voice phone. I just, you know, when I talk to parents, I usually have my, it's my cell phone, you know, it's just my regular cell phone number, but I've had two parents reach out for the upcoming school year saying I'm requesting, you know, I'm asking if you're available to see my, my child again.
[00:41:20] And sometimes I'm like, I'm sorry, it's really in the best interest just like your child receives a new classroom teacher every year. It's good that your child receives another speech therapist. You know, I'm either not at that school now, or I'm working with a different caseload, but I think. I enjoyed that the parents were advocating for their child by participating in the speech sessions with teletherapy and then requesting me or requesting that I talk to the next speech therapist that they were going to have so that I could, you know, talk about the benefits what I did and how the child was responsive.
[00:42:08] So teletherapy has been a. A rainbow of feelings and experiences for everybody. Right?
[00:42:22] Jessica Hunnemeder: Oh, yeah. 
[00:42:23] Margaret Curley: Yeah. 
[00:42:23] Jessica Hunnemeder: Oh, yeah. And we've talked about it before, too. And we refer to it as the eras, so the pre, the during, and the after the post, right? The eras. Of teletherapy, and I think, yeah, no, I've experienced the same thing and it's fascinating.
[00:42:42] It's absolutely fascinating. The change, I think, is amazing. Since then, because I mean, when I would go in for contracts before it happened, a lot of the parents would 1st be like, do we have to? And I, I was really lucky because I was able to get some hybrid contracts. So, I would be able to go into the school 1st, introduce myself.
[00:43:02] So people wouldn't say, oh, you're just some person on the screen. It's always funny when you walk into a school and they're like, you're real. Oh, yeah, you know, But yeah, I totally agree. I've seen the same thing happened. And in terms of like advocating for services. Via via teletherapy because of, you know, the, the location, they don't have an SLP nearby or, you know, I just got back from a trip in Alaska, seeing kids and it took me 3 planes to get there.
[00:43:36] So they got to see me 4 times a year, but it took me 3 times on a plane, right? 3 planes. But there's just such a difference. I think being able to be there. Doing the rest of the therapy online too. Yeah, it's just, it's just a lot. So excuse me if I sound a little tired, it's because I am, but at the same time too.
[00:43:58] Yeah. I mean, I think teletherapy has changed a lot and you've seen it, Margaret, you've been in, in it before, before, you know, it was the cool thing to do for sure. So good on you. 
[00:44:10] Margaret Curley: Yeah. I one of the things is I always try and dispel the illusion of onsite is better than teletherapy. Obviously, both have its strengths, both have its weaknesses, but it's not like onsite is this, you know, angel on the hill and nothing can touch that.
[00:44:34] And I'm like, no, kids are kind of inattentive. On site, face to face to, you know, distracted, you know, in the, in the speech room as well and materials are based on either therapist buying the materials or they're limited to what are tangible materials in the school that are got broken or moved. Disappear.
[00:45:03] Cool year. And so I always try and say, You know, teletherapy can have its place and there are more materials than you could ever find virtually that you can't buy enough on site. 
[00:45:24] Jessica Hunnemeder: You could even, I mean, and this is probably going off topic a little bit, but I've had sessions where I'm just Googling pictures of Bob the Builder.
[00:45:35] Or door, they like, we, that is our session and sometimes it works, but I mean, technology and relating it to advocacy. It's just. It's there. It's a thing, right? 
[00:45:49] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Yeah. 
[00:45:50] So I guess that ties into the next question I have with the whole tying of technologies. No, no, Margaret, you've been a very seasoned SLP experience and we've seen the growth of technology.
[00:46:00] And like, again, I want to say entirely like social media, whether it just be also emails, you know, our phones, how has that impacted you and like advocating for yourself? Cause I know like, For me even like I had to get rid of my work email on there because it just two o'clock in the morning a parent would email me and I'm like, oh my god, of course, I see it.
[00:46:20] I have to read it. And then you're like thinking about it or just, you know, you see, there's all the Facebook groups and that. So with your experience, you've seen it all, any suggestions of how to manage that? 
[00:46:35] Margaret Curley: I've taken it off my phone, believe it or not. So I am, it's on my computer, obviously. So when it is time to.
[00:46:46] engage with my profession, whether it's emails or social media, I am actively opening up my computer as opposed to, I've heard someplace, and this relates to my 19 year old daughter, is I hear that those notifications are one of the worst things That is involved with all of us now is that hit of dopamine because of a notification.
[00:47:15] And so I turned off my notifications and I've taken it off my phone. So that yes, I would like to open up the computer and, you know, scroll through a day's worth of the Facebook page that I enjoy so much for speech pathologists, but it was better Doing that, then, oh, oh, somebody else, somebody just posted, let me just click on it.
[00:47:42] Let me just click on it. Yeah. That's what I do. That's great. I'm actually a phone.
[00:47:52] Jessica Hunnemeder: I was just thinking earlier today, how there is so much information out there. There's so much information, like people who are listening to us now and later on too. It's just. It's amazing that, first of all, you found us, but also, like, finding sustained attention to one thing, that's, I don't know, it's, it's rough.
[00:48:17] So, thinking about all of the information out there, all of the things, how, I, I think. You know, how can I focus my attention and what do I do to make sure that I'm getting the right information? Ethical information, evidence based information. Where do you go? What do you do advocacy wise? Like, what's your, what's your goal when you get onto the computer?
[00:48:46] Margaret Curley: So this year for me has been a little bit of a struggle getting all of my CEUs in. I've had a lot of stuff going on, so usually I'm pretty disciplined. Once a month I will do a professional development. This year's been a li a bit of a struggle, but I do enjoy professional development. I rely on it.
[00:49:08] For having the right people with the right information, you know, through social media and everything. It's not that I take it with a grain of salt, but if something pops up that I go, Oh, really? That's not where I'm stopping. I'm going, Oh, okay, let me check this out. Let me see if there's something else someplace else that is reinforcing whatever I, I read about.
[00:49:36] So I, I really like professional development, it's grounding and it's, you know, it's PhDs like you. I need PhDs like you. 
[00:49:52] Jessica Hunnemeder: To get, to get that information. Yeah, for sure. Have you gone to any what's it called? Again, I'm tired. I feel it's so funny because I feel like I've done so much professional development over the past couple of months.
[00:50:11] I went to the Hawaii state speech and hearing association recently. It was my 1st time going. I was so excited. It was super awesome. And I went to last year. I think. Finding the time have you gone to any recent ones that are good. I would love to go to something that's not speech related just to, like, get out there.
[00:50:32] I don't know. Have you guys find found anything recently? Resounding no, 
[00:50:37] Stephanie Reed-Foti: I 
[00:50:37] did 1 years ago. Actually, on was it on? Go ahead. 1st, I'm trying to think it'll 
[00:50:47] come to me. 
[00:50:49] Margaret Curley: Have you heard of edweb. net? I'm not, I'm not a paid. I don't know whether that needs to be said. I hear that people say things like that, but it's a free professional development.
[00:51:01] And what I like about it is It is for all of education. So I hear things about reading and I hear things about occupational therapy and things, you know, because I've been in the field for a long time, and I'm not going to listen to another Arctic one again. I mean, 
[00:51:21] I just can't. 
[00:51:25] Stephanie Reed-Foti: I was twitching. 
[00:51:27] Margaret Curley: Yeah, I'm not just gonna do it to check a box. I actually, you know, do have interest in multi-discipline and collaborative kind of work. So, that's something that I, I enjoy and that's virtually, 
[00:51:42] Stephanie Reed-Foti: so I do remember , I do remember I say always check your local places or even just like other people.
[00:51:49] So one of my actually teacher friends, we live in, I work near Monmouth County. They actually have a Monmouth County resource hub and they had a guest speaker about someone, she runs an adult program of like just how to engage young adults into the community. And we're really interested in learning of how to take those next steps with students.
[00:52:12] And I was only SLP there, but it was fun to see, again, how they helped that transition of learning life skills. And it was fun because we had this whole conversation like, well, I could tie into that. Oh, you do that. We can try this. It was just a great conversation. Again, it was a nice different lens of just just speech.
[00:52:28] It was. From an educator's perspective, and there was kindergarten teachers, there was high school teachers, there was life after 21 teachers. So it was really nice again, just to kind of see a different perspective. So I say just explore like Google local webinars or stuff. And I feel that was nice sometimes just to see it kind of different than the same thing.
[00:52:49] Like we looked at the same thing and we're like, that's interesting. You look at it that way. You know, I definitely always Google that. 
[00:52:58] Jessica Hunnemeder: I like that. All right. How about anything else in terms of advocating? Let's talk maybe like inclusivity or being more inclusive and more inclusive. What are some tips or strategies that you can say in terms of advocating for more of an, you know, inclusive practice within your, within your position?
[00:53:24] Margaret Curley: I don't know whether I have been good at advocating for it, but I have been lucky enough. Because I live in New York, because I work in California I have had so much more inclusion in diversity because. It's a growing profession like the slip of part of it is growing and just the knowledge of speech pathology.
[00:53:52] When I graduated and I won't tell you what year there were, there were 15 of us and then two years later, there were 100. I went to Syracuse University for my grad school. And we had small, small groups in grad school, tiny, and then it made this. Huge leap. And so with that huge leap has become has grown in, you know, bilingual speech pathologists or slippers.
[00:54:25] And so in the past five years. In California. I have adored every one of my slippers and they bring something to the table that I don't as you know, looking at me I'm a 50 ish Irish background woman I wish I had a second language, but I don't. So I've been very lucky and. I don't know whether the universities have gone out of their way to recruit for diversity in speech pathology, but I have definitely seen
[00:55:11] students, women and men choosing speech pathology who are more diverse. And I am so happy for the students because Jess and I were talking about this earlier, I believe that the students. Deserve and benefit when they experience speech therapy with a diverse group of speech pathologists. 
[00:55:37] Jessica Hunnemeder: Agreed, 
[00:55:38] Margaret Curley: or, or slip it, you know, 
[00:55:40] Jessica Hunnemeder: agreed, agreed.
[00:55:41] And then being able to communicate somebody in your native language with the same customs, same things. I mean, it's just, there's something so beautiful about it. There's something also so beautiful about experiencing it for the 1st time. I mean. When we talk about having sessions with kids, so I've worked in small villages in Alaska, and I've, you know, I've tried all sorts of different meals and foods that I never would have tried before and then being able to talk about it later is just, you know, it's so interesting.
[00:56:16] And you're so, so right about. The importance of diversity in this field and advocating for that and and lifting people up, you know, so that they can you know, share their cultural and in diverse living experiences with the students and the people that they work with. It's just so important for sure. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. Any, anything else that we wanted to kind of pull in about advocating for the SLP? Anything else you want to add in there? We'll kind of wrap up in a few minutes. 
[00:56:54] Margaret Curley: What are my last thoughts? My last thoughts goes back to the very beginning is Talk to people and, and know that you can do it.
[00:57:05] You know, I went from working for, you know, my school, then working for a. Special Ed staffing company to working independently and the, and I wasn't sure every step of the way that I could do it. And I'm not, I'm, you know, a relatively confident person. I don't lack in confidence. But the only way I took that step was because I was talking to people and because I was.
[00:57:41] Seeing it and reading stuff and like Courtney from last week, such an impressive businesswoman who is a speech pathologist and how did she get to be such an impressive business person as a speech pathologist? Oh, my goodness. Does that mean we all could be that? Why, yes, yes, it does. 
[00:58:02] Jessica Hunnemeder: Yes. 
[00:58:03] Holds the torch.
[00:58:04] Yes, we can. Yes, I agree. I agree. And you haven't met Cori, who was in our first episode. But she is a speech path. Who became a principal of a school kids. So she holds, she holds that degree as well as being a speech path. And she is such an advocate for the profession for the kids in her school for the SLPs in her school.
[00:58:32] So that, I mean, yes, there's so many things we can do with this profession. And I think if we. We keep talking. We keep talking about things that we need. Things that are, you know, bothering us, things that need to change. The more we talk about it, the more things will change. And I think too if we continue to listen to others, to other opinions, the better off we are, right?
[00:59:00] Better off we are. 
[00:59:01] So anyways, I'm going to step off of that podium a little bit. And I am going to say thank you, though, to you, Margaret. I adore you. We are so thankful for you jumping on with us. I may or may not force you, but I do appreciate you agreeing somewhat willingly. And thank you to everybody for listening to us.
[00:59:24] We super appreciate it. We hope that this gave you some insight, some information and that is the end of our 4 part advocacy series. 
[00:59:34] Stephanie Reed-Foti: No, we did it. 
[00:59:37] Jessica Hunnemeder: Wonderful. Thank you so much, everybody. 
[00:59:41] Stephanie Reed-Foti: Thank you, everyone.
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