SEASON 13 EPISODE 3

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:13.9] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to SLP Learning Series, a podcast series presented by SpeechTherapyPD.com. The SLP Learning series explores various topics of speech-language pathology. Each season dives deeper into a topic with a different host and guest who are leaders in the field. Some topics include stuttering, AAC, sports concussions, teletherapy, ethics, and more. Each episode has an accompanying audio course on SpeechTherapyPD.com and it is available for 0.1 ASHA CEUs. Now, come along with us, as we look closer into the many topics of speech-language pathology.

[0:01:04.1] GSO: Hi everyone, howÕs it going? My name is Garrett Scooter Oyama and I will be your SpeechTherapyPD.com host for this mini-podcast series, Tunes for Talk: Music as a Tool for Speech and Language Intervention. Today is the third installment, IÕm so excited for it, and itÕs called, Get with the Beat: Exploring Integration of Beatboxing into SLP Practices, and I mentioned before, just as a little preamble to this that IÕm an SLP and a musician. 

So, itÕs just been like an honor and a pleasure to just talk about how music, speech, and language are intimately related and how music can really be a practical tool for all of us SLPs to use in a bunch of different ways. So, before we get started, thereÕs a few items to alert you to. This course is one hour and will be offered for 0.1 ASHA CEUs. Financial disclosures, we each receive an honorarium from SpeechTherapyPD.com. 

Dr. Rusiewicz receives a salary from Duquesne as a faculty member. Her research is also supported by Once Upon a Time Foundation and there are no nonfinancial disclosures to report. IÕm so excited to welcome our amazing guest this week. Heather Leavy Rusiewicz is the chair and associate professor in the Department of Speech-Language Pathology and the associate dean for research and the John G. Rangos Sr. School of Health Sciences at Duquesne University in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. 

She is also the program director of the Speech Production Clinic within the Duquesne University Speech, Language, and Hearing Clinic. She received her bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degrees in communication science and disorders from the University of Pittsburg. Before her time at Duquesne. Dr. Rusiewicz was an SLP at ChildrenÕs Hospital in Pittsburgh and her clinical and research experience are focused on children and adults with speech sound disorders. 

Her areas of interest include gesture, porosity, and speech sound production in children and adults. SheÕs particularly interested in the dynamic entrainment, we might talk about that after, of speech and manual movements, the lived experience of individuals with speech sound disorders and their families, and the integration of music and speech production. Additionally, that isnÕt enough. 

Dr. Rusiewicz is interested in the scholarship of teaching and learning and the education of students studying communication sciences and disorders and lastly, sheÕs involved in community-engaged teaching and research with the aim to promote the discipline of speech and language pathology, embolden students to be civic-minded advocates for their clients, and to sustain relationships with community partners to serve the local broader community. 

[INTERVIEW]

[0:03:35.1] GSO: So, IÕm excited to welcome you, Dr. Rusiewicz. Just a little connective tissue to everyone, we have the pleasure of doing an ASHA presentation on beatboxing and that was two years.

[0:03:45.3] HLR: 2022, yeah.

[0:03:47.5] GSO: Time is flying.

[0:03:49.5] HLR: Exactly. I had to look that up because I Š you know, it wasnÕt that long ago but it Š like, it was a moment.

[0:03:54.9] GSO: Yeah, both feels like it just happened and it was forever ago.

[0:03:59.3] HLR: Yeah, time is a tricky thing.

[0:04:01.4] GSO: Thank you so much for coming on. IÕm so excited to talk to you again.

[0:04:04.8] HLR: I love the opportunity to spend more time with you, first and foremost, Garrett. So, itÕs truly a pleasure and, while you're talking, itÕs really hard for a speech-language pathologist not to want to jump in, and also, I love to be involved but that introduction was great but also humbling. So, thank you.

[0:04:21.8] GSO: Of course, yeah.

[0:04:22.3] HLR: ItÕs awesome to be here.

[0:04:23.3] GSO: Just with all of this stuff that youÕre doing, IŌm just curious, can you tell us a little bit more about your superhero origin story with regards to speech therapy? How did you get started in all these?

[0:04:33.7] HLR: Oh, my gosh, it was not a linear path by any means and so, IÕll try to make it like, the abridged version for sure. So, I thought I wanted to be a physical therapist actually and so, I have lots of electives and things that were very interesting because of whenever I decided that I didnÕt want to continue my biology major, I continued like a chem minor, which is not that common for a speech-language pathologist student and professional.

But then I transferred schools and I transferred out of the major just because I knew I wanted to be in healthcare in some way but I didnÕt necessarily know what that was going to look like. So, after checking out a couple other options, I did some soul-searching. It took until my junior year of college to figure out like, ŅOkay, what brings me joy and has really impacted me?Ó And it actually was a lot of time that I spent with my uncle, who worked with the Special Olympics in my county that I grew up.

And I would also help him with summer camps for adolescents with intellectual and developmental disabilities and that was always like my favorite time of the whole year and it took a while for me to make a connection. Like, ŅHow could that actually be a profession?Ó And so, once I found my way to speech-language pathology at the University of Pittsburg, I actually completed my undergraduate major in two semesters, just plowed it on one, and loved, loved it.

And so, then continued on and didnÕt leave, as you said in my introduction, didnÕt leave the University of Pittsburg for quite some time because there was some really great opportunities, including my roles at ChildrenÕs Hospital in Pittsburg even as a masterÕs student. So, yeah, so, really grateful that I found my way.

[0:06:21.9] GSO: ThatÕs awesome.

[0:06:23.0] HLR: And I was just having a conversation with a friend today and I mean, what a great profession weÕre in and frequently reminded this far into what IÕm doing, this is definitely what IÕm meant to do. So, yeah.

[0:06:36.1] GSO: ThatÕs awesome. Yeah, you know, I really Š I feel like everyoneÕs path is a little bit meandering when it comes to this and it was cool that you mentioned physical therapy. I know that youÕre interested in gesture and movement and I thought that maybe before we dive into beatboxing specifically, I also Š IÕm just so curious. You mentioned something about commune and move and Š

[0:06:59.9] HLR: Oh yeah.

[0:07:00.9] GSO: Yeah, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that. I just want to know, I want to know more, this is my own gratification.

[0:07:06.5] HLR: Yeah. So, the thread of most things that IÕve been interested in, whether itÕs going back to that origin story as you put it or now is that I love thinking about the prosodic characteristics of speech. So, especially prosodic stress and intonation and rhythm and things like that. So, along the way, I got interested in better understanding how to support children and individuals as child and apraxia speech because of prosodic characteristics of speech.

And then, along the way, in my doctorate program, I got really interested in gestures because of the cooccurrence and time, at least Š at least, I wanted to study that synchronization of gestures, synchronizing in time, or coordinating in time with speech movements, and then when digging into that topic, realized that thereÕs really some clinical application to that work as well, and so using hand gestures, in particular, those that mirror what the articulatory system or even other systems of speech, respiration, and phonation how you can use hand movements to help facilitate speech development and also, speech sound targets for children, in and beyond.

So, those popping movements of our hands that mirror or ŅPÓ and ŅBÓ sounds and you know, mirroring an ŅRÓ with our hands, right? And so, thatÕs one way in which I think about this and this connection to music as we transition, IÕve done some research as well with a colleague in the School of Music at Duquesne. Dr. Karen Daily. She and I quickly found out that we have some overlapping areas of not only interest of use of these hand gestures because she uses them in a choral setting to help with not only articulatory accuracy but vocal expressivity and artistry and things like that.

So, thatÕs been a really a line of work too, but the communal move program that just getting kind of conceptualized and getting ready to launch hopefully in those communities that you mentioned that IÕm interested in is communal moves, so communication but also community. So, for the communa part, move for using your body, this embodied kind of connections for learning and both for speech production and overall communication, and retract. 

But that move part also to kind of move forward and to, you know, help support these individuals in the community to kind of have more connections and have, you know, just overall communication confidence and social communication but with using music, also, and movement at the heart of those kind of, hopefully, fun and engaging as weÕll talk about but Š 

[0:09:48.0] GSO: Well, theyÕre all so related.

[0:09:49.2] HLR: Kind of seeping in the communication enrichment and speech development and speech support.

[0:09:54.7] GSO: Yeah, thatÕs so cool. You know, the one thing that you mentioned IÕve never known was that you have, you know, at the level of the, you know, phoneme youÕre even having hand gestures that are related to that. Have you heard of this Š I heard of this cool little study where they restricted peopleÕs hand movements and they were no longer, yet, they had it a hard time speaking. 

And I also heard something where it was like, thereÕs someone born without limbs and they couldnÕt Š so, they kind of had phantom limbs like they can feel their limbs but they werenÕt born with them but when theyÕre talked, they reported that they couldnÕt stop their limbs from moving. So, even if youÕre born without limbs, thereÕs this really deep connection that we have between speech and gesture. So, wow.

[0:10:50.1] HLR: Yeah, for sure, and the influence of the two systems and I know thatÕs not the point of this topic. ItÕs really hard to disentangle that thereÕs a mute, I just want to Š because you're talking about, IÕll just say, thereÕs a magic trick that I do whenever I talk about this and itÕs based on research thatÕs been replicated a couple of times but saying a repeated syllable, it can be something as simple as, ŅPop-pop-pop-pop-pop.Ó And you tap at the same time. 

But if you alternate your tap, so, big tap, little tap, big tap, little tap but you tell your audience or you tell your partner that you're working with not to change your pops. So, keep on a steady, ŅPop-pop-pop-popÓ So, even if our audience members try that and do like a big tap and a little tap, itÕs really hard not to go, ŅPop-pop-pop-pop-pop-popÓ, right? 

[0:11:37.4] GSO: Ah, whoa, cool. I want to just try that. It is Š IÕm just trying it in my head for a second.

[0:11:41.2] HLR: But I also mentioned that because as we start talking about that Š the relevance, continue to talk about the relevance of music because as you mentioned, itÕs the third installment of the series and what that might bring to you know, your SLP table literally or figuratively, if you also integrate that embodied style of movement and learning and also, if you can make Š really capitalize on those connections, those brain connections of the hand and mouth, itÕs like, youÕre just like, sneaking in all of those success-based kind of strategies. Well, hopefully also, being engaging and fun, so.

[0:12:21.6] GSO: Yeah, yeah. Am I getting this right then that if you Š actually, in the language, speech practice learning process, if you are using your gestures, your head movements, your body movements at the same time, that that sort of I guess, using that other sensory system along with it will help encode the information better?

[0:12:44.6] HLR: Yes, and similar to music, the literature looking at body movements, itÕs not just about that immediate learning. ItÕs actually where the special sauce comes in is for the retention. So, that could be mathematics, it could be learning. I use this kind of work for teaching students in my classroom how the velopharyngeal system works and have them be the velopharynx with partner in a Š or it can be what weÕre talking about today with speech and language goals and objectives. 

The one other program that we started and itÕs my student unfortunately graduated in August, so IÕm hoping that somebody else gets to pick up the torches of the program called, Speech in the Spotlight, which was bringing this together, bringing music together along with those specific hand movements. So, they can do the ŅsssÓ, where you have Š if youÕre listening to this, imagine you're a finger kind of going along an arm or kind of that tight finger gesture pinched outside streaming in front of your mouth. So that mirroring movement but with song.

She was a music performance, she had a minor in music performance while pursuing speech-language pathology and was a songwriter and a guitarist. So, we found a way to mirror her loves with these researcher-based and imperially based strategies, and where she was creating a YouTube channel with short, five-ish minute YouTube segments that would support different speech sound targets. 

And even thinking about things like resonance and good vocal health and things like that. So, hopefully, stay tuned. Hopefully, again, another student that has some similar interest that would like to pick that up. So, yeah.

[0:14:23.7] GSO: ThatÕs awesome, any SLPs out there that would want to look into this. 

[0:14:26.5] HLR: I would love that, I would drop my contact information at the end.

[0:14:30.4] GSO: Yeah, thatÕs so cool. You know, the stuff is endlessly fascinating and it really connects I think to the beatboxing. You do see beatboxers using their hands so much and I was, yeah, hearing about this other study. You know, theyÕre looking at Š especially musicians when they hear music and all lay people, anyone listens to music, even if weÕre totally still and silent, weÕre not making any noise, our motor cortex is still firing. 

WeÕre like, weÕre at that neural level, weÕre performing action, weÕre performing movement when we hear sound.

[0:15:01.8] HLR: ItÕs fascinating and as we start to talk about beatboxing, I was talking to one of my beatboxing friends/colleagues, Villain, and I said, ŅI hope you get self-conscious but IÕm going to let you know, IÕm always your hands and your other body movements whenever youÕre beatboxing.Ó

[0:15:18.9] GSO: Oh man, I hope youÕre Š now, IÕm like thinking about my hands. Yeah.

[0:15:20.4] HLR: So, that synchronization of movement and just how itÕs so tight for individuals who beatbox and itÕs definitely performative but itÕs really, itÕs internal too. Like, that connection to music and body movement definitely is there but for beatboxing, that speed of which you're moving as well as like, financially fascinating to watch that too.

[0:15:44.6] GSO: Absolutely. We forget, as a Š I think, you know, people thinking about speech and language all the time, which is mostly invisible, we forget that learning is embodied and really, itÕs something that we canÕt separate ourselves from. ThereÕs this Š yeah, this cool stuff, sorry, weÕre getting a little off topic but I just think itÕs so Š this stuff is so cool and interesting and itÕs all related and I think itÕs helpful information for SLPs as well. 

But all of our Š even at the language level, thereÕs this Cog Sci researcher at University that went to undergrad, George Lakoff, he talks about metaphors, the metaphors we live by. ItÕs about how you know, basically, our bodily, you know, schemata help us understand the world and so, theyÕre reflected in, you know, even our language structure. So, you know, when you say, like, even if we say, ŅOh, we have to move this podcast from yesterday to tomorrow.Ó 

That ŅfromÓ and ŅtoÓ are spatial metaphors that we use without thinking about it and so, like, everything that we do and we say, itÕs all a deeply rooted in the body. So, that this gesture and or movement, itÕs just such a critical piece of learning and I think, we tend to not think about and we forget and we push to the side as if itÕs not important but IÕm so glad that youÕre taking up this research to kind of you know, show how critical and important this stuff is.

[0:17:15.5] HLR: Well, IÕm certainly not alone and Garrett, IÕm just reminded. I think we had these deep kind of conversations within the first five minutes of our first connection. So, I could do this with you all the time, so this is a joy.

[0:17:30.1] GSO: Well, that would be lovely. Before we Š yeah, go off into more interesting abstract land, I do want to get to some of the beatbox stuff that weÕve done together because I think this is so cool and so practical for so many SLPs. I know that you wanted to talk a little bit about some of the studies, some of the research but maybe we can give just a quick overview of beatboxing, what is it for people.

[0:17:54.6] HLR: Yeah.

[0:17:56.6] GSO: So, for all the SLPs that donÕt know, yeah.

[0:17:59.2] HLR: Right, that was going to be Š I actually write down, I had very few questions. I was like, ŅAsk Garrett, itÕs like, Ask Garrett to demonstrateÓ and to you know. So, in full disclosure, I am not a beatboxer. I am not a musician either. I very much appreciate music and I do a lot of Š not a lot, IÕve done my fair share of scholarship with a music theorist that I'm still close with, and as I mentioned, already, Dr. Daily that I do work with. 

And then, in this realm, and beatboxing but I just have a deep appreciation for those connections and for you guys and like, you do as performers and theorists but I also wanted to mention that one of the biggest things that we talked about for ASHA presentation and this will be helpful if weÕd be able to give some of this demonstration and describe beatboxing is to make it more accessible for speech-language pathologists and other professionals. 

Like, and so, I have Š you kind of have to get over that hump, immediate hump of like, ŅWhat am I going to do with my articulatory system?Ó And IÕm going to have fun. IÕm going to have fun with this.

[0:19:01.8] GSO: Right.

[0:19:02.9] HLR: And thereÕs no real right or wrong, especially in this kind of setting that weÕre going to talk about. So, even though I am not a beatboxer and IÕm not a professional musician either, that this is something that is definitely accessible and definitely something that SLPs of any type of setting and any type of background and any type of caseload that youÕre working with can hopefully find to be helpful but Š 

[0:19:31.4] GSO: Totally.

[0:19:31.5] HLR: Go ahead, Garrett. Anyway Š 

[0:19:33.8] GSO: Like our colleague, Chesney, who is like a professional beatboxer, theater arts extraordinaire always says, ŅIf you can say the alphabet then you can beatbox.Ó

[0:19:44.6] HLR: Correct.

[0:19:45.9] GSO: I mean. IÕm also too, IÕll say that IÕm not a beatboxer. I can do a little beatboxing, one of my really close friends that I met in Boston while I was in grad school, he was street performing. I just went up and said hi and you know, we became really good friends after that. His name is Gene Shinozaki and he was a world champion at some point in beatboxing. He taught me a few things but IÕm really not a beatboxer either.

So, at the beginning, I was really nervous to try this stuff because it looked so crazy. When you hear the professionals do it, youÕre like, ŅI canÕt do that. IÕm not a musician, I'm not a X or Y. I canÕt sing, I canÕt hold a melody.Ó But itÕs okay. In fact, thatÕs almost helpful. When you work with clients. I think, one thing that we talked about before is that it really like, opens the door, builds rapport when you try something. 

And you're not so good at it that like, you know, lets your client feel comfortable and also, you know, sometimes itÕs good to flip the tables a little bit, where the person youÕre working with can become the teacher. So, if they really like beatboxing, you know, if theyÕre excited about it, they have the chance to teach you something. Like, how often does that happen? Usually, we come and weÕre like, ŅLearn this thing that I am teaching you.Ó 

But you know, sometimes, itÕs good to have that flip side. So, beatboxing is using the oral mechanism, so the things that you know, our teeth, our tongue, our articulators, the shape of our mouth, to create drum sounds, and it was born out of hip-hop culture. So, back in the 80s date, it was one of the four pillars of hip-hop. So, it was included in them, at least, breakdancing, DJing, rhyming, graffiti.

And it really started, because at that time, Roland, which is a music instrument, like digital instrument creator, was putting out these drum machines that theyÕre called beatboxes, and kids, you know, in the hip hop culture, wanted to make these sounds and not having Š a lot of them not having the money to get these beatboxes, would like, try to make them with their mouths, so it was the human adaptation of technology, kind of. 

So, I just think itÕs so cool. I could do Š the easiest way to start is with you know, the words boots and cats, you might have heard this before. ŅBoots and cats and boots and cats.Ó But, once you take off the Š once you start to take off some of the vowel sounds, you can make it Š you can use the phonemes themselves and practice them. So, [Beatboxing 0:22:30.6] something like that.

I don't know if you can hear it, sometimes the noise gets removed but using these phonemes to practice these patterns is kind of the same thing that weÕre doing in speech. WeÕre using the same fundamental building blocks to create speech. So, I just think that itÕs such a cool tool to use these rhythms and these patterns and music to make speech practice more engaging. So yeah. IÕm curious, when did you learn, first learn about beatboxing.?

[0:23:13.8] HLR: It would have been about 2018. I was connected by a colleague through our mutual connection, which was James Kim at Š it was bridging education and art together at the time, and it was kind of at a good time because I was preparing Š when we first met, and this idea of beatboxing and you know, thinking about how it might be, have some connections to speech-language pathology, it was probably October or November and I was preparing for a sabbatical that following semester.

And so, whenever I say it was a good time, it was at a space where I was, at a time in my career, right that moment to have some freedom to think, ŅWhatÕs next?Ó And to think outside of the box, literally outside of the box a little bit, and so then I thought, ŅYou know, letÕs do some reading.Ó And think about like, yes, this could be engaging, right? Because again, weÕre going to talk a bit about this because thatÕs an important aspect of bringing music into therapy of any sort, including beatboxing. 

ItÕs engaging, itÕs fun, but we also, as professionals, have goals and objectives that we are meeting for our patient family subject care that weÕre providing and so, digging into Š so, what is like, what is this potential connection? Other than it being engaging, what is the potential connection? And in my area, as you mentioned, in my background, IÕm specifically interested in speech production. IÕm interested in all the things but in the speech production, which ties in nicely to what you just said, this repetitive practice of producing movement of the articulators.

And then, thinking even about the nonword kind of aspect of beatboxing and what that means for principals and motor learning potentially, along with some other theoretical principles and how that combination of it being an engaging activity along with having these connections to the underlying mechanism of speech production but also to come with theoretical construct or set of constructs was really exciting. 

So, and at the same time, I had had just a brief experience. I mentioned Villain so quickly earlier that as a colleague of mine, that was my very first exposure to bringing beatboxing into a practical application in my world and what was that. We had worked together, along with a couple of colleagues of mine at Duquesne University in Pittsburg, who are faculty sponsors for our Best Buddies chapter at Duquesne University and if you're not familiar with Best Buddies, itÕs a national, if not international organization both in high schools. 

But in college, in college settings where there are young adults, and sometimes, not so young adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities who are matched and paired with a buddy, who is a college student and they maintained that relationship, at least through college but I can tell you, it usually lasts longer, and so what we had done is we work together because we thought it would be a really good experience to create a beatboxing showcase for one of their weekend activities. 

And to see how that Š but we also did a little bit of research on that. It was focused on the perceptions of the college buddy, of the college student buddy, and to see what they thought if their buddy continued to talk about it, if they seemed to be engaged in the experience and this is a ballroom-full of individuals. ItÕs a very large Best Buddies chapter and honestly, that moment, it was just kind of a fun side project, again, for me and to see what we could do and do a little data collecting with my student, who is Catherine Pickard. 

Still is Catherine Pickard, who is an Allum now, and it was really transformative for both those who are beatboxing and those of us who were watching as professionals because it was just such a Š just a phenomenal experience. It was fun but people were kind of, you know, not only dancing and having a good time but really having some of those social connections as well and then also, for these young adults who Š 

Communication sometimes is challenging to really play with sounds, to have that opportunity to yeah, socially engage with production of these sounds. Again, that thereÕs no right or wrong and just having that experience together is like, wow, that was a lightbulb, maybe not in the moment but an hour and a half for me and so, yeah, this is Š and it was also just really joyful to have that kind of experience and so yeah.

[0:27:57.5] GSO: I love that.

[0:27:57.2] HLR: Kind of a long-winded response to that.

[0:28:00.8] GSO: ItÕs hard to make, you know, speech joyful like that.

[0:28:04.5] HLR: Yeah.

[0:28:05.4] GSO: And awe-inspiring, thereÕs this other book that I was reading recently, called Awe, where this UC Berkeley professor talks about like, all of these, like thereÕs the Š he calls them the eight wonders of life that reliably produce the physiological motion of awe in people and music and collective movement are two that reliably do that and so, you know, one thing that IÕm like thinking about more and more is like, you know, the problems with attention that kids have in speech. 

You know, and I think, probably, any SLP thatÕs here knows or has felt that over their time that kidÕs attention spans, itÕs harder and harder to gain kidÕs attention. You know, thereÕs like a host of reasons for that but principally, you know, screens and things becoming more addictive and ubiquitous and super, super engaging. ItÕs hard to find those things that will break you out of that but I think music is one of the things that does that and beatboxing is really easy way to do it.

You donÕt need instruments, you donÕt need anything else, itÕs just you and your voice and you can make a rhythm with somebody, have fun.

[0:29:10.9] HLR: Yeah. I was just pulling Š on my computer, I pulled up a couple of pieces of work and I was trying to remember what the scale was that we used for this Š we related it at a second study, which we could talk about if we have time but we, we/initially, whenever I was starting to writeup some of these, you know, summarize the literature and the theory, what was Š this is related to our conversations. 

I was like, ŅOkay, engagement, thatÕs really important. How do I measure engagement and speech therapy intervention sessions?Ó I was like, ŅWhereÕs the literature on that?Ó And then, I was like, ŅNo, really, whereÕs the literature on that? Where are the deep-ended measures for thinking about engagement in our intervention sessions?Ó So, that actually becomes a secondary aim of this work is to be focused on beatboxing as that medium in the speech therapy and the integration into speech approach, speech intervention approaches. 

But I was really curious about how to use some of these metrics that Š and kind of observational tools that were used and so like, mental health or other forms of rehabilitation but how to bring that into speech. So, yeah.

[0:30:26.0] GSO: ThatÕs so critical.

[0:30:28.0] HLR: It is, right? Yeah. So, we have to study it too. We canÕt just be like, ŅI think itÕs better. I think theyÕre more the attention is heightened or their engagement is greater.Ó But thereÕs ways to empirically study that. So, looks like thereÕs more of a movement of that happening.

[0:30:44.2] GSO: Well, thank you for doing this important work.

[SPONSOR MESSAGE]

[0:30:47.6] RG: Are you taking advantage of our new amazing feature? The certificate tracker. The free CE tracker allows you to keep track of all of your CEUs, whether they are earned with us at SpeechTherapyPD.com or through another provider. Simply upload your certificate to your registered account and youÕre all set. So, come join the fastest-growing CE provider, SpeechTherapyPD.com.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]

[0:31:14.7] GSO: I wonder, you know, you know, looking at some of the other musical activities, you know, that are similar, I think thereÕs something special about everyone and you mentioned, [inaudible 0:31:28.0] entrainment earlier but this rhythmic entrainment that happens when you're all in the same beat, on the same rhythm, I was looking at this really cool study recently where thereÕs Š they are having people clap on the same beat as the facilitator of the study. 

And then one group didnÕt clap on the same beat and then for the Š right after they clapped together, the facilitator would drop a pencil and like to fane that they, you know, needed help, and then the people that had clapped on the same beat with the facilitator were significantly more likely to pick up the pencil for them and they do the same thing even with babies, who were more likely to try and help and pick up a toy and create a social bond with those that they had been, letÕs say, rhythmically trained to. 

So, theyÕd all been on the same rhythm. So, I think thereÕs something really special too about beatboxing in that way. 

[0:32:32.4] HLR: Right.

[0:32:32.7] GSO: That it creates a social bond. 

[0:32:34.0] HLR: Right, and I know that you had some really great examples of how you have integrative beatboxing into early intervention and then across different ages but as young as early intervention but I have given some thought and going back to the communal move, kind of a Š itÕs not about being in a group setting but so often, especially in school-based settings, working on speech production goals and objectives is in a group setting. 

And so, having this opportunity to perform music together but specifically, beatboxing and I donÕt know if you want to talk about like live looping, which we can you know, have the apps for and even things like that but this idea of building on each otherÕs sounds and performances and having that social connection while also still getting repeated productions of what your targets maybe because it can certainly move into other sounds beyond our hi-hat and our kick drums. 

And our, you know, our pop-butts, where we can do our Ņricky-ricky-rickiesÓ and we can do a variety of our maybe our late acquired sounds. We can make any sound into a beatboxing target, right? 

[0:33:52.7] GSO: ThatÕs important, yeah. 

[0:33:54.0] HLR: It may not always Š you know, I have to think through it a little bit more but hey, most of us are completely newbies at beatboxing anyways, so why not just do it all from the beginning? But that idea of being in that group setting and thatÕs how youÕre working on as much mass practice as possible but you know, going to principals of motor learning, blocked mass, however, you want to organize your actual practice. 

But then having fun with that in this group setting at the same time, I just really think that thatÕs Š has some goal. 

[0:34:26.6] GSO: Yeah. 

[0:34:26.9] HLR: You know, positive, potentially positive impacts in those kinds of studies, especially school-age children and beyond. 

[0:34:35.0] GSO: Definitely, yeah, totally positive impact for school-aged children. You know, I am thinking about all the groups that had it so hard. We got a group together like, ŅThis time works but this kidÕs working on you know, social goals, this kidÕs working on an hour, how do I work on all these things together?Ó And potentially, like you are saying, beatboxing is a way to do that. 

You know, we are just talking about how it has some effect on social cohesion, working together in a group, you know, you are forming a band together, trying to create loops together, and then youÕre also getting this rhythmic repetitious practice of these sounds. So, you know you can potentially do a ton of things with you know, beatboxing and group together. Yeah, I donÕt know if people are interested. 

Maybe before we get to a few practical examples of beatboxing group or individual sessions, maybe you could talk a little bit about the specific work research thatÕs been done on beatboxing because there has been other stuff weÕre talking about thatÕs related how music is beneficial for speech and language, how rhythm is beneficial for speech and language but you know, what about the actual there have been studies? 

[0:35:37.2] HLR: Limited as you might expect but yes. IÕm sorry, the most frequently cited work and because itÕs also some of the own work thatÕs out there is from our colleagues, Dr. Michal Icht and her colleagues at Ariel University in Israel and then they were part of our ASHA presentation even though they didnÕt travel from Israel in 2022. They were Š weÕre grateful for them to be part of that presentation as well and has been part of some of the work that weÕve done in a collaboration. 

So, theyÕve done that work, they call it a beat talk technique. If you want to look up their references, IÕm happy to share any of this information or the citations too. They have a couple of studies and the long and short of it is they were working with adults who had motor speech disorders due to cerebral palsy and Down syndrome, and weÕre in a day setting where they were having some programming. 

So, they came in and they had more traditional speech therapy approaches and then speech therapy with beatboxing essentially integrated and they looked at overall ratings of articulatory accuracy and then they also looked at vocal parameters as well, so loudness. Loudness, you know, overall, amplitude and also protivation metrics, and you know, the story, you know, if weÕre talking about. 

And I said those are frequently cited is because they did find that there were positive implications for these adults, who with more significant implications and effects for Š with those vocal parameters and judgments of articulatory accuracy if beatboxing was integrated and so theyÕre continuing that work in Ariel, though you know, with some challenges right now. What part of work that we were doing at Duquesne, the data was being collected at Duquesne. 

But again, with Š in this collaboration, that started during COVID and so, weÕre like, ŅWe want to continue this work.Ó And be a little bit more Š we use a different design. We used a single-subject design so that we had four adults, young adults who has a diagnosis of Down syndrome and weÕre Š you know, still had some residual speech on there and some vocal goals that they were working on as well and we came together in a virtual environment. 

That is why I mentioned this during the pandemic. So, we had a beatboxer, who goes by Galush, and then thereÕs a speech-language pathology student and then a very experienced speech-language pathologist that were part of those sessions and it was the best way to spend the summer. So, I would kind of lurk on the Zoom and I would take over sometimes. So, with these young adults, we measured of course engagements. 

And overwhelmingly, our measures of engagement were incredibly high for all four of those participants. We also did some qualitative study as well and doing both interviews with the young adults but also their parents, who got some feedback about the experience and then we did some Š both our colleagues in Israel, they did some acoustic measurements of those vocal parameters, and then we did some intelligibility ratings and then also neuro phonetic transcription for targets that they were working on. 

And so, because of how research goes, weÕre still doing some work with the data, especially at that more narrow transcription and analysis because you mentioned a lot of the different hats that I now wear in my department in the last two and a half years as IÕve taken on more leadership roles but the acoustic variables, we didnÕt notice over these 10 sessions. So, we had some baseline sessions, we had 10 sessions weekly with that crew that we just talked about, and then we had some follow-up baseline sessions. 

So, those vocal parameters didnÕt really change, so those loudness measures and protivation and things. What we did find though is that there is some significant effects in terms of effect sizes for the intelligibility measures, at least for, I believe it was three out of the four participants, and so we want to dig in more to that data but thereÕs definitely more to be done with different types of designs but thatÕs just one example of what we were had on work on lately and yeah. 

[0:40:14.3] GSO: So, thatÕs good for all the SLPs out there looking for you know, ways to support maybe working on beatboxing for an IEP goal, here is some research that you could turn to. Yeah, and I think thereÕs just so many different ways that you can also weed beatboxing into already evidence-based approaches, letÕs say. 

[0:40:37.8] HLR: Yeah, right. 

[0:40:38.7] GSO: You know and we know that you know, first of all, doing things that kids find engaging, building rapport, just even those basic, basic things are so critical to Š 

[0:40:50.4] HLR: I like using the word engaging and thatÕs true but IÕm now have these four young adults and you know, at the forefront of my thoughts right now and what was really great is how individualized it could be and I can name drop all the different artists that they were interested in but they would take turns and see like what kind of style they were interested in that week. 

They would build their brand that they culminated in a show for their families in that last session that they were working towards. 

[0:41:23.1] GSO: Oh, thatÕs great. ThatÕs awesome. 

[0:41:24.1] HLR: And of course, they have different levels of Š just like anybody, right? In a group of four, youÕre going to have just a variety of willingness to kind of put yourself out there but by the end, they were just this tight group after these ten sessions of working together but it is the individualized nature but an engaging part. Like, this is still kind of cool, right? I mean, IÕm Š itÕs not kind of, it is cool, right? 

So, youÕre working with potentially, students or young adults, who are watching hip-hop in a hip-hop culture both on YouTube videos with beatboxers and thereÕs a big presence, right? And of beatboxing in music and out there and mediums like the YouTube on top of that and like YouTube, right? And so, it is even though it has roots as far back as the 80s in the States but even using percussion-like sounds and other in global, it goes way back, right? 

So, it is not a new medium of losing your articulators but it is really powerful for being, I guess, maybe relevant and fun, right?

[0:42:39.6] GSO: Yeah, totally. 

[0:42:41.0] HLR: And cool. 

[0:42:41.6] GSO: Yeah, it seems to be more in the forefront of popular culture and maybe not forefront but itÕs definitely Š you could see it in the Disney Pixar movies like Turning Red and stuff like that. They had the beatboxer and I think just more and more people know what it is. A lot of people I think probably 10, 20 years ago wouldnÕt have known what beatboxing was but now, itÕs definitely becoming more. 

[0:43:08.3] HLR: Yeah, and I donÕt want to get us too far our field from beatboxing but you just mentioned Turning Red, I have three, we have three boys, and our 16-year-old was doing a paper. He had to do a research paper and on his own. I mean, maybe, maybe itÕs like you know, because he hangs out with me a little bit, he decided to do his paper on the impact of music and how that impacts your mental wellbeing and how that impacts your studying and learning. 

And actually, itÕs because he listens to music all the time whenever he is both working out or whenever heÕs doing homework or whatever but the connection to Turning Red is he was really trying to find an example to make this relevant to whoever was reading it or whoever heÕs presenting it to and we started talking about Coco and Š 

[0:43:58.2] GSO: Oh, cool. 

[0:43:59.2] HLR: Right? And that the whole movie is about prompting memories based upon music and of course, that emotional connection so, and I just wanted to share that. 

[0:44:10.4] GSO: Music is so powerful. I wonder if maybe we can just give a couple of tools to everyone thatÕs listening. You know, beatboxing, you donÕt need anything. You can really just make up some that youÕre working on and turn it into a rhythmic pattern or a phrase. LetÕs say your kidÕs working on the K sound, you know, the easy boots and cats is helpful. You know, if they are working on, I donÕt know, and TH sound is a tough one, right? 

You can Š youÕve done a Š thereÕs a phrase bots and thoughts that we used in our little program but you can turn that into Š you can use just the sound itself [beatboxing sound 00:44:55]. So really, you know, you can go anywhere with that. If you do feel that you need help, there is one. I mentioned, no nonfinancial disclosures, this is kind of a nonfinancial disclosure but we did kind of mention before that I was that how we connected was through this company called BEAT; Bridging Education and Art together. 

And I helped them develop a curriculum for beatboxing, which is now totally free on YouTube and so you could just pull up these YouTube videos and we can provide the link to that later and then it has all the lessons for Š to work on essentially all of the different sounds that you might be working on with your kids. So, thatÕs one. Do you have any to mention that have been useful or that youÕve seen clinicians or students use or be excited about? 

[0:45:52.7] HLR: Yeah. I mean, IÕm just always thinking about those residual speech errors. Not always but in this context, I am thinking about school age or I kept mentioning adolescence and young adults that we might be spending time with as well. So, ways to get our S-Z sounds and our afro kits, right? So, our Ņch-ch-ch-chÓ and Š 

[0:46:13.5] GSO: Those ones are always changing. 

[0:46:14.6] HLR: And of course, our roaring sounds are Š those rhotic are definitely something that weÕre always working on but we kind of Š

[0:46:20.7] GSO: The record scratch. 

[0:46:21.3] HLR: Yeah, exactly like that. IÕve already done like a Ņa-reck-a-rahÓ and getting that rhotic but in a way that is atypical but I like to also think about depending on what the underlying motor contribution is. So, if there is a motor planning contribution and you know, maybe along the lines of child with apraxia speech. So, still thinking about moving beyond, I think itÕs important to point this out and keeping it Š keeping those targets beyond an isolation level, right? 

So, thatÕs kind of a benefit of beatboxing too because even if youÕre doing that Ņks-ks-ksÓ youÕre really moving in a fluid way still across syllables or at least across those sounds but I would want to still think that through, so that if weÕre working on kind of the fluid movement across sounds and sequences that weÕre pairing it with vowels as well, as best as we can. So, yeah.

[0:47:18.3] GSO: Definitely, thatÕs always important, that generalization piece is key and IÕm thinking about how to Š working on, work on these things in a hierarchical way and there is one little anecdote in one of the videos that we helped put together that I remember is Kaila, a famous beatboxer but she is working with a group of kids and was teaching them sounds and then was saying, ŅHey, when you say this sound, itÕs so clear when youÕre beatboxing and why donÕt you use that in the word?Ó 

And she said that there was this lightbulb that turned on, ŅOh, I can use the big ŅKÓ sound when IÕm saying cat.Ó Or you know, whatever word that theyÕre trying to say and so making that generalization to making their speech is also critical and something to think about. 

[0:48:05.0] HLR: Yeah. 

[0:48:05.9] GSO: So, yeah, thereÕs also a couple of other things that you mentioned before, the groups. ThereÕs a few really cool tools Š not tools, activities IÕd say to use for groups. One of them is beatboxing orchestra to Š it is kind of like what youÕre mentioning, putting a band together but you know, youÕre weaving in all these things together. So, if you have each person represent a particular sound in the group. 

And they all have to come together and make a rhythmic pattern, maybe one person is the kick drum, one person is the snare, one person is the hi-hat, something simple like that, one person is doing a trumpet sound maybe, whatever sounds they want to make. There is no wrong sounds in beatboxing but you can have everyone go together, make a pattern together, they can start to figure out what patterns they want to do together. 

If they want to do it along to music, so you are working on you know, social goals as well, trying to work together as a group, just that built-in rhythmic entrainment that happens that makes people tend to be more prosocial and then also you know, working on these speech sounds together, I think thatÕs one way. 

[0:49:12.7] HLR: Yeah, sequencing goals and turn-taking goals, and yeah. 

[0:49:16.9] GSO: Yeah, and thereÕs also timing. Sorry, go ahead.

[0:49:18.4] HLR: Yeah, when weÕre talking about work. Yeah, IÕm just going to say weÕre talking a lot about speech production but IÕm sure as individuals are listening to this, I would encourage them to think about a current client, student, patient that they have and even if theyÕre not focused maybe right now, especially if theyÕre not focused on speech production goals and objectives, like how you might use a tool like beatboxing to help meet those goals. 

[0:49:43.9] GSO: Definitely, and speech therapist being you know, such creative people as we are, you know, have a lot of different ideas. So, I am always really delightfully surprised by what clinicians come up with. 

[0:49:58.8] HLR: Yeah. 

[0:49:59.5] GSO: Yeah, so I just wanted to ask you a couple of Š now, a couple of real important questions. If you could take five albums with you on a desert island, what would you take with you? 

[0:50:18.3] HLR: Oh my gosh, so these Š okay, so weÕre going just like this is my own interest now. 

[0:50:25.4] GSO: This is personal interest, this has nothing to do with beatboxing or speech. 

[0:50:28.3] HLR: Oh my gosh, five albums. Pretty much anything by Radiohead but IÕll go with Kid A. 

[0:50:36.6] GSO: Ah, love it. ItÕs a fantastic album. 

[0:50:39.3] HLR: I would choose Disintegration by The Cure. 

[0:50:43.0] GSO: I think as well. 

[0:50:45.9] HLR: Probably, again, anything by Nine Inch Nails but IÕd have to think about which one. What else? Right, IÕm like dating myself too but IÕm really into Ion and Line right now as well. So, you know, Ion and Line, and then I donÕt know, so much good music. We just discovered the love of vinyl. So, like thinking through my head like literally what album would I like to take with me, and oh, IÕm a big Doors fan. Something, whatÕs the album with Spanish Caravan on it? I canÕt remember. I know. 

[0:51:42.0] GSO: I would have to know Š I would have to look it up. 

[0:51:44.3] HLR: Yeah, so those are good questions. 

[0:51:46.5] GSO: ThatÕs a classic to bring on a desert island. Yeah, Radiohead is up there for me too, for sure, probably In Rainbows. That is such a great album. 

[0:51:59.1] HLR: ItÕs so great. 

[0:52:00.3] GSO: And then whatÕs your go-to karaoke song if you had one? 

[0:52:04.1] HLR: Oh my gosh, well, I have actually Š what did we sing? Oh, what is the Journey song? 

[0:52:14.8] GSO: DonÕt Stop Believing? 

[0:52:16.2] HLR: DonÕt Stop Believing. So yeah, we sang DonÕt Stop Believing at my Š whenever I became department chair, we had a retreat that was hosted by an individual that is a friend of the school of health sciences and there was a karaoke competition and so with a limited collection of karaoke songs that thereÕs competition, so we choose DonÕt Stop Believing or Believe In and the chair of occupational therapy and I sang it and we won the competition. 

So, it was such an odd experience though because I was literally Š I had been in that leadership role for maybe a week, so I was definitely not comfortable but if you are not challenged, you are not changed, right? So, it was a fun way to push on that, that we are validated, and we have that memory that we kind of trauma bonded. 

[0:53:12.1] GSO: Well, it speaks to our music, yeah. 

[0:53:14.0] HLR: Exactly, right? 

[0:53:15.5] GSO: What a great way to open a door, you know? Sometimes we can get when we feel like weÕre in this role and I feel this too, then itÕs hard to make a strong connection. I think music breaks and opens doors for people. I know being in Japan, a lot of you know, work is very vigorous and strict for a lot of the companies and so they get Š everyone goes out to karaoke after. ItÕs just this way to like let loose and kind of break down certain boundaries.

[0:53:43.9] HLR: Yeah, what about you? We can talk about your five albums later because IÕm sure thatÕs a challenge for you to identify too but what about your karaoke go-to? 

[0:53:53.0] GSO: Karaoke go-to, you know, well, IÕm Š ah, man. I should have thought about this. 

[0:54:01.2] HLR: Would it be in Japanese or in English? When youÕre Š 

[0:54:02.7] GSO: I do both. I have a couple of go-to Japanese songs but IÕd say for Š I like, I flip between thereÕs a couple of Disney songs I really like and thereÕs a couple of rap songs that I always go to. Yeah, Kendrick Lamar, Alright, and then you know, the Mulan song, IÕll Make a Man Out of You, so classic. 

[0:54:32.2] HLR: Love it. 

[0:54:33.1] GSO: Yeah, maybe those two. IÕve been gotten the flip-back question. I wasnÕt prepared for it. 

[0:54:38.8] HLR: ItÕs okay. ItÕs all fair.

[0:54:40.3] GSO: ThatÕs another challenge. So, we just wanted to give a couple of minutes for people, does anyone here, I donÕt know if I can even see participants but if anyone is Š had any questions, theyÕre more than welcome to ask in the Q&A box at the bottom or while weÕre you know, just kind of finishing up and talking, do you have any other advice for you know, SLPs either young or even experienced wanting to use music in speech therapy? Do you have any advice for them? 

[0:55:25.4] HLR: We are most successful when I think about a professional but I think this is a life statement too, right? But whenever weÕre flexible, whenever weÕre fun, whenever we feel like weÕre being successful and I think that music in addition to all of those things that we talked about, those social connections and enhancing learning and retention, and so on, right? Meeting goals and objectives that we have but that connection of being fine and flexible and success-based is great for all of us. 

It breaks ice but donÕt be intimidated about just bringing it in, right? And whether youÕre making music yourself or going along with songs, perhaps you have to slow those songs down. ThereÕs been some nice pieces out there, right? To the time just saying it was a CD, I donÕt know if itÕs available digitally now, it was a product that apraxia kids had created with some folks including the Pittsburg Symphony actually years ago but Š right? 

So, just to think about how you can bring in music and actually, I hadnÕt thought about this memory for quite a while but as a MasterÕs student, I had a really profound moment in working with an individual in a school nursing facility, who was severely aphasic and would sing happy birthday whenever we were interacting but was not Š he was not able to product spoken words and utterances. 

But that is how we would have our communication exchange and IÕm fascinated with music ever since and what that looks like for our field, so. 

[0:57:13.0] GSO: Yeah, itÕs amazing how music can reach into these parts of us that are really deep and emotional, and yeah, one thing that I propose, just using of how I guess was that with speech where typically, you know, we were saying before that thereÕs this huge overlap and like neural structures and you know, the sounds of speech and language and music and how they overlap but thereÕs this sense in that like when we are speaking. 

When weÕre talking, weÕre using it in an instrumental way when weÕre representing things in order to manipulate or change the environment or get something or you know, communicate some idea. With music, there isnÕt that layer of representation. YouÕre almost like getting directly to a source of something and this is, I think, this is becoming a little bit abstract and off the rails but itÕs Š I think thatÕs why thereÕs such a huge emotional connection. 

Because thereÕs, you know with music, itÕs not that Š it just is beautiful in itself and it can really touch people in such a profound way and so I think thatÕs why you know, using that as a way in to learn speech and language and almost to show how beautiful like sound and patterned sound can be is so powerful. 

[0:58:43.4] HLR: And I am grateful for this series that you are doing and all the work thatÕs emerging both in our field and beyond. Funding agencies are having more calls for proposals that are connecting music to human health and so on but without bringing music into our profession and into our session rooms and their classrooms. It is almost like weÕre not ignoring but itÕs such a huge part of peopleÕs lives and sometimes truly part of their identities, right? 

But even if itÕs not part of your identity as a musician or as a performer, itÕs just such a part of life and so it seems pretty much of that next, you know, obvious connection is to bring that into what we're working on as best as we can. It could just be even your warming up, breaking rapport. 

[0:59:35.6] GSO: Right. 

[0:59:36.0] HLR: Right? And whatÕs our mood like today and then finding a song that represents that for 60 seconds as you shake it off and I didnÕt mean that to be a Swifty reference. 

[0:59:47.4] GSO: Taylor Swift reference. 

[0:59:48.2] HLR: Yeah, but literally, right? That during like getting your wiggles out together. I mean, it doesnÕt have to always be directly and linked to, ŅThis is my speech-sound objective.Ó That weÕve been talking about for a while but to Š yeah, to bring in that very, again, joyful aspect and emotionally tied and it might not be that good and maybe itÕs not that uplifting song, maybe IÕm kind of feeling bad today. Well, you know, letÕs find something that maps onto that or you know, so yeah. 

[1:00:17.3] GSO: Absolutely. I love that and you know, I hope that this Š this certainly has been for me a really joyful conversation. Always love catching up with you and hearing about what youÕre doing and thank you for sharing your wisdom and your knowledge with us. ItÕs been amazing and I just want to see if maybe you can tell people where they can find you really quickly. 

[1:00:41.8] HLR: Yeah, so thank you for this opportunity and itÕs been a blast. So, my last name is spelled Rusiewicz, R-u-s-i-e-w-i-c-z, and I can be found at Duquesne UniversityÕs website. Duquesne is also spelled a little bit different if youÕre not from the area and familiar, itÕs D-u-q-u-e-s-n-e but my email address is rusiewih@duq.edu and I really look forward to hearing from folks and IÕm happy to provide some resources or if you want to bounce some ideas off of each other, all for it. 

[1:01:21.5] GSO: Yeah, thank you so much again, and thank you, we look forward to seeing you again at another SpeechTherapyPD.com live course. 

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[1:01:37.0] ANNOUNCER: Thank you for joining us for todayÕs course. To complete the course, you must log in to your account and complete the quiz and the survey. If you have indicated that you are a part of the ASHA registry and entered both your ASHA number and a complete mailing address and your account profile prior to course completion, we will submit earned CEUs to ASHA. 

Please allow one to two months from the completion date for your CEUs to reflect on your ASHA transcripts. Please note that if this information is missing, we cannot submit it to ASHA on your behalf. Thanks again for joining us, we hope to see you next time.

[1:02:16.4] ANNOUNCER: Each episode comes with an accompanying audio course on SpeechTherapyPD.com available for a 0.1 ASHA CEU and just for our listeners, get USD 20 off any subscription with promo code, Ņslplearn20.Ó SpeechTherapyPD.com is run by SLPs for SLPs. TheyÕve got the largest library of ASHA CE-eligible courses out there adding fresh content every week. Remember, use the code Ņslplearn20Ó to get USD 20 off, access to over 1,000 courses for an entire year. Head over to SpeechTherapyPD.com for more information and start earning CEs today.

Thanks for tuning in to the SLP Learning Series and donÕt forget, SpeechTherapyPD.com is your go-to for all things ASHA CEU. Your positive reviews and support mean the world to us and we love for you to drop us a quick review and hit that subscribe button. 

[END] 


SLPL S13E300Transcript



	© 2024 SLP Learning Series	2